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Saba123
03-17-2017, 04:32 AM
I am an Iranian with an E2b Y-chromosome can anyone explain Historical reasons this could happen

Kaido
03-17-2017, 07:34 AM
Could be from Persian traders that operated on the east African coast.

Saba123
03-17-2017, 07:04 PM
Yeah but the my Y-DNA is East African meaning that an Iranian women would have had to go there to trade which just seems highly unlikely.

kingjohn
03-17-2017, 11:40 PM
dear saba
this is a rare haplogroup in iran also
2.3% in bandari 14597
best regards
adam

p.s
i see your results in another forum autosomally is you are iranian as one can get :)

Power77
03-18-2017, 12:30 AM
Wasn't E2 found in Natufian samples:P?

Deftextra
03-18-2017, 12:52 AM
Yeah but the my Y-DNA is East African meaning that an Iranian women would have had to go there to trade which just seems highly unlikely.

This is what I also assumed about iranian\west-asian traders in the east-african coast. I am from a clan of mixed origin from the southern somali coast. The people who tested so far are r1a1a, G2a and L-M27, J1 (and E-V32 me) paternally. Maternally, all have african Haplogroups, except for 2 people which carry K1a and H14a, which I found a bit strange. Maybe some took their wifes with them or female family members?

jesus
03-18-2017, 06:58 AM
Yeah but the my Y-DNA is East African meaning that an Iranian women would have had to go there to trade which just seems highly unlikely.

Some free African traders settled in Iran. Some African slaves had relatively high positions as well. The vast majority of African admixture in Iran seems to be female dominated(many Iranian traders married south East African woman and migrated back to Iran, some female slaves were probably imported as well).

Carl45
03-18-2017, 12:19 PM
It is not that abnormal. There are millions on Iran with the E haplogroup. Do you know anything about your family background?

RobertCasey
03-19-2017, 10:12 PM
Europeans as well as Arabs face the constant implication that haplogroup E is recently from Africa. Today, Africa is the primary source of most of Haplogroup E - but not all E haplogroups. Originally, it was believed that all Europeans were believed to be R1b but it is now known that R1b moved into Europe during the Bronze Age conquest/replacement of most of the original Europeans. This has been proven via testing of ancient remains throughout Europe. Before the Bronze Age time frame - no European ancient remains have been found to be R1b in Europe. But guess what has been found between the ending of the great Ice Age and Bronze Age - you guessed it - Haplogroup E, Q and others. Q has all but disappeared in most of western Europe but it is now believed that some of the haplogroup E found in western Europe is part of these original European haplogroup E which obviously moved there a very long time ago.

So this means haplogroup E was present in Europe before the Bronze Age - not exactly due to any traders since they were hunter gatherer types. Now this does not mean that all haplogroup E in Europe was early Europeans as a certain amount of Haplogroup E has arrived in Europe by many means after man progressed to more than hunter gatherers (both from Africa and Arab areas). Eventually, as we get more recent branches under Haplogroup E, a lot will be African branches, some will be European and some will be Arab variations under haplogroup E. But this will take a lot of time to discover these more recent branches that can be more safely assigned to different regions of the world. But with the older branches of haplogroup E, all it really means that most are in Africa, some are in Arab areas and some are from Europe. So these early branches of haplogroup E only rule out Eastern Asia and Native Americans.

Saba123
03-21-2017, 02:19 PM
Yeah, I am from the southern parts of Iran not necessarily the Bandari region though. I may have some family from there but it appears to be my grandmothers mother(who was literally white as snow and had blonde hair and blue and probably Georgian or Circassian.)

Saba123
03-22-2017, 03:48 AM
This is what I also assumed about iranian\west-asian traders in the east-african coast. I am from a clan of mixed origin from the southern somali coast. The people who tested so far are r1a1a, G2a and L-M27, J1 (and E-V32 me) paternally. Maternally, all have african Haplogroups, except for 2 people which carry K1a and H14a, which I found a bit strange. Maybe some took their wifes with them or female family members?

Oh really thats very interesting, I guess someones wife was not very loyal lol.

Ebizur
03-22-2017, 08:29 AM
Before the Bronze Age time frame - no European ancient remains have been found to be R1b in Europe. But guess what has been found between the ending of the great Ice Age and Bronze Age - you guessed it - Haplogroup E, Q and others. Q has all but disappeared in most of western Europe but it is now believed that some of the haplogroup E found in western Europe is part of these original European haplogroup E which obviously moved there a very long time ago.

So this means haplogroup E was present in Europe before the Bronze Age - not exactly due to any traders since they were hunter gatherer types. Now this does not mean that all haplogroup E in Europe was early Europeans as a certain amount of Haplogroup E has arrived in Europe by many means after man progressed to more than hunter gatherers (both from Africa and Arab areas). Eventually, as we get more recent branches under Haplogroup E, a lot will be African branches, some will be European and some will be Arab variations under haplogroup E. But this will take a lot of time to discover these more recent branches that can be more safely assigned to different regions of the world. But with the older branches of haplogroup E, all it really means that most are in Africa, some are in Arab areas and some are from Europe.I am afraid that this is a common misunderstanding. Currently available data do not support your statement that members of Y-DNA haplogroup E have lived in Europe at a more ancient date than members of Y-DNA haplogroup R1b have lived in Europe. R1b has been found in an Epigravettian context at Villabruna, Veneto, Italy (c. 14,000 ybp) and in an Epicardial Neolithic context at Els Trocs, Aragon, Spain (c. 7,100 ybp). Haplogroup E-V13 has been found in the remains of one individual at the Avellaner cave, Catalonia, Spain (ca. 7,000 ybp) in what should be an Epicardial Neolithic context judging from archaeological remains of contemporary inhabitants of that region.

Data from living humans (cf. YFull) also fail to support your claim that haplogroup E is older in Europe than haplogroup R1b:

R-M269 > R-PF7562 vs. R-L23 6500 ybp
R-L23 > R-Z2103 vs. R-L51 6200 ybp
R-Z2103 > R-PF331 vs. R-Y4364 vs. R-L584 vs. R-Z2106 6100 ybp
R-L51 > R-L51* vs. R-Z2118 vs. R-L151 5800 ybp

R-M417 > R-CTS4385 vs. R-Z645 5500 ybp
R-Z645 > R-Z93 vs. R-Z283 5000 ybp
R-CTS4385 > R-FGC9988 [England] vs. R-L664 4700 ybp
R-Z93 > R-Z93* [Italy & Russia] vs. R-YP1451 [England] vs. R-YP5321 [Poland] vs. R-YP1506 [Lahore, Pakistan & Altai Republic, Russia] vs. R-KMS149 [Altai Krai, Russia] vs. R-YP5578 [England] vs. R-Z94 [ubiquitous] 4700 ybp

I1-Z2864 > I-Z17954 vs. I-DF29 4600 ybp

E-V13 > E-V13(xCTS1273) vs. E-CTS1273 5400 ybp
E-CTS1273 > E-CTS1273* vs. E-Y16729 vs. E-Y19508 vs. E-S7461 vs. E-L540 vs. E-Z5017 vs. E-Z5018 4100 ybp

I-Y16419 > I-Y16419* [Armenia & Erzurum, Turkey] vs. I-BY2818 [Kakheti, Georgia] vs. I-Y16418 [Armenia & Sofia, Bulgaria] 4000 ybp

The most common type of haplogroup E Y-DNA in modern Europeans is E-CTS1273, whose expansion appears to be more recent than that of modern European R1b or modern European R1a. E-V13 as a whole is a better chronological match for European R1b and R1a, but E-V13(xCTS1273) is not very common among populations represented on YFull. Note that the estimated time of deposition of the E-V13 specimen from Avellaner cave in Catalonia (c. 7,000 ybp) predates the estimated TMRCA of E-V13(xCTS1273) and E-CTS1273 according to YFull (c. 5,400 ybp). Furthermore, an even more basal E-L618(xV13) individual (YF03299 from Bauskas, Latvia) is also represented on YFull; his estimated TMRCA with E-V13 is 7,600 ybp. (I do not know whether YF03299 is of ancient Baltic ancestry or rather of German, Jewish, or other recent foreign ancestry.) In any case, it is quite misleading to claim that extant European haplogroup E has deeper roots in Europe than extant European R1b.

Farroukh
05-07-2017, 07:22 AM
Dear Ebizur,
FYI, link about Zanj (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanj)

Saba123
08-15-2017, 08:12 PM
Turns out the E2b on promethease is just a glitch

Power77
08-29-2017, 02:35 AM
Turns out the E2b on Promethease is just a glitch.

J2 sure as hell makes a lot more sense for an Iranian:lol:! BTW, did you actually test with 23andme and/or with FTDNA:confused:?

Saba123
08-29-2017, 03:41 AM
J2 sure as hell makes a lot more sense for an Iranian:lol:! BTW, did you actually test with 23andme and/or with FTDNA:confused:?

Ikr lol I was so confused. I used AncestryDNA actually.

Power77
08-29-2017, 05:10 AM
Ikr lol I was so confused. I used AncestryDNA actually.

Did you find out your actual Y-DNA haplogroup with the Morley predictor (https://ytree.morleydna.com/) then:confused:?

Saba123
08-29-2017, 02:40 PM
No, I first found it on Wegene and then I looked up all SNPs manually to check.

kingjohn
08-29-2017, 03:30 PM
saba123 i thought you were E bummer :(
there were always be place for you though :)
regards
adam

Tz85
08-29-2017, 05:01 PM
Haplogroup E is not a European Haplogroup in origin. Although E-V13 is found in Europe, it's not common at all.

Passa
08-29-2017, 08:04 PM
Haplogroup E is not a European Haplogroup in origin. Although E-V13 is found in Europe, it's not common at all.

"Not common at all" seems a bit of a stretch.

Tz85
08-30-2017, 12:13 AM
"Not common at all" seems a bit of a stretch.

Not reallly. E-M35 and sub clades are some of the least prominent Haplogroups in Europe.

Passa
08-31-2017, 09:42 AM
Not reallly. E-M35 and sub clades are some of the least prominent Haplogroups in Europe.

After R1b, R1a, and I, Y-DNA E is the most common.

Tz85
08-31-2017, 06:42 PM
After R1b, R1a, and I, Y-DNA E is the most common.

J is also more common. R1a, r1b, I1, I2, j1 and j2 are more common than E within Europe. Their isn't a single population within Europe that is a E majority.

Power77
08-31-2017, 09:00 PM
J1 and J2 are more common than E within Europe.

That's not true;). (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml)

Saba123
09-07-2017, 10:48 PM
saba123 i thought you were E bummer :(
there were always be place for you though :)
regards
adam

Don't worry I'll always be an E at heart lol. Its fine because you and I still have 6.2 cm match.

Lupriac
09-07-2018, 07:52 AM
J is also more common. R1a, r1b, I1, I2, j1 and j2 are more common than E within Europe. Their isn't a single population within Europe that is a E majority.

FYRO-Macedonia haplogroups(in order):

E1b1b1-M35
I2a-P37.2
R1a1a-M198
R1ab1b2-M269
E-M78
I2a-P37.2
I2a-P37.2
R-M417
I2a-P37.2
I1
E-V13
E-M35


Greece:
I : 15.1
R1a : 12.0
R1b : 16.9
E1b : 21.0
G2 : 6.3
J2 : 20.1
J1 : 4.3
LT : 3.2
Others: 1.1

Albania:
Haplogroups in the modern Albanian population is dominated by sub-clade E1b1b1a (E-M78) and specifically by the most common European sub-clade of E-M78, E-V13.

Sources: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26644-Y-DNA-haplogroups-of-Greeks-by-region-of-origin
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29061-Y-DNA-haplogroups-in-Macedonia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians#Y-DNA

Lupriac
09-07-2018, 07:54 AM
Looks like many countries in the Balkans and south of it are dominated by E men.

Tz85
09-07-2018, 04:09 PM
FYRO-Macedonia haplogroups(in order):

E1b1b1-M35
I2a-P37.2
R1a1a-M198
R1ab1b2-M269
E-M78
I2a-P37.2
I2a-P37.2
R-M417
I2a-P37.2
I1
E-V13
E-M35


Greece:
I : 15.1
R1a : 12.0
R1b : 16.9
E1b : 21.0
G2 : 6.3
J2 : 20.1
J1 : 4.3
LT : 3.2
Others: 1.1

Albania:
Haplogroups in the modern Albanian population is dominated by sub-clade E1b1b1a (E-M78) and specifically by the most common European sub-clade of E-M78, E-V13.

Sources: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26644-Y-DNA-haplogroups-of-Greeks-by-region-of-origin
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29061-Y-DNA-haplogroups-in-Macedonia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians#Y-DNA

No their not. E-V13 is only one sub-clade of E. E as a whole, is way less common in Europe.

I believe you miss read my comment.

Batroun
09-07-2018, 06:19 PM
As for E-V12 does this mean if we find E-v12 in Lebanon(Moe's case for example) would it signal an ancient migration from its origin or is this more likely as a result of a more recent smaller migration? Also didn't the Phoenicians carry E as well?

Tz85
09-07-2018, 07:32 PM
As for E-V12 does this mean if we find E-v12 in Lebanon(Moe's case for example) would it signal an ancient migration from its origin or is this more likely as a result of a more recent smaller migration? Also didn't the Phoenicians carry E as well?

Could be Natufian or Egyptian, like my case. It is said that E-V12 had a direct migration however from Egypt accross the Mediterranean.

Batroun
09-08-2018, 04:04 AM
Could be Natufian or Egyptian, like my case. It is said that E-V12 had a direct migration however from Egypt accross the Mediterranean.

Would be crazy if it was determined to be Egyptian from the heydays of the Egyptian kingdoms

Lupriac
09-08-2018, 10:06 AM
I'd guess it is either Natufian or Egyptian just like Tz85 said.

Theory #1: Our ancestors inhabited the Levant since 15,000 BP, and became the Natufians. (This theory in my opinion is the most likely.)
Theory #2: Our ancestors were soldiers from Egypt during the New Kingdom (1550 BC – c. 1077 BC), who settled here. Or were some sort of rulers of regions in the conquered areas.

-Ahmose did, however, reach at least as far as Kedem (thought to be near Byblos), according to an ostracon in the tomb of his wife, Ahmose-Nefertari.

-The fifth, sixth and seventh campaigns of Thutmose III were directed against the Phoenician cities in Syria and against Kadesh on the Orontes.

-Seti I fought a series of wars in western Asia, Libya and Nubia in the first decade of his reign.

-His first campaign (Ramesses II) seems to have taken place in the fourth year of his reign and was commemorated by the erection of what became the first of the Commemorative stelae of Nahr el-Kalb near what is now Beirut.

-There is also an account of the same events in the form of a poem from the Merneptah Stele, widely known as the Israel Stele, which makes reference to the supposed utter destruction of Israel in a campaign prior to his 5th year in Canaan: "Israel has been wiped out...its seed is no more."

Also, If my ancestors have been in this area, since tens of thousands of years, doesn't that automatically make my ancestors among the Phoenicians, or perhaps even Phoenicians themselves?

Batroun
09-08-2018, 04:06 PM
Also, If my ancestors have been in this area, since tens of thousands of years, doesn't that automatically make my ancestors among the Phoenicians, or perhaps even Phoenicians themselves?

It most certainly does. Phoenicians carried Many different types of Haplogroups as a result of more ancient migrations to the region.

Tz85
09-08-2018, 06:02 PM
Would be crazy if it was determined to be Egyptian from the heydays of the Egyptian kingdoms

Egyptian males are found up to 70% E-V12. My guess Natufian/Egyptian in origin. The time fits.

Lupriac
11-08-2018, 02:47 PM
Egyptian males are found up to 70% E-V12. My guess Natufian/Egyptian in origin. The time fits.

Weren't Egyptians mostly of Levantine origins? In that case, maybe E-V12 originated in the Levant and migrated to Egypt and Nubia and crossed to other countries. Perhaps our ancestors didn't go with the Egyptians to the Nile, and rather favoured sedentary farming in the Levant.