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rockman
06-09-2013, 04:51 AM
Hi guys

So I have had my FTDNA and Geno 2.0 done. FTDNA says I am 63% South Indian and the rest is classified as Adygei/Middle Eastern. Same with Geno 2.0 that says my ancestry is Northern Caucasian and South Indian. I know we have some Central Asian/Turkmen/Iranian ancestry in us and the results do show that side. Also had my results analyzed by Dr. Mcdonald who classified me as 39% Turkish and 61% South Indian with the following:

----------------------------------------------------

Cypriot 0.2157 Burusho 0.4221 S_India 0.3622 or
Turkish 0.3026 Burusho 0.2816 S_India 0.4158 or
Armenian 0.2528 N_India 0.6192 Uygur 0.1280 or
Georgian 0.2553 N_India 0.6195 Uygur 0.1253 or
Armenian 0.2591 Hazara 0.1185 N_India 0.6224 or
Armenian 0.2401 Burusho 0.4027 S_India 0.3572 or
Georgian 0.2615 Hazara 0.1158 N_India 0.6227 or
Adygei 0.3838 Hazara 0.0719 S_India 0.5443 or
Adygei 0.3793 S_India 0.5431 Uygur 0.0775 or
Adygei 0.3178 Burusho 0.2445 S_India 0.4377 or
Turkish 0.2909 Hazara 0.0775 N_India 0.6316 or
Turkish 0.2862 N_India 0.6297 Uygur 0.0841 or
Adygei 0.2932 Hazara 0.0795 N_India 0.6273 or
Georgian 0.2469 Burusho 0.3836 S_India 0.3695 or
Cypriot 0.1784 Burusho 0.3755 N_India 0.4461 or
Adygei 0.2884 N_India 0.6257 Uygur 0.0860 or
Turkish 0.3809 Hazara 0.0708 S_India 0.5484 or
Georgian 0.3324 S_India 0.5344 Uygur 0.1331 or
Turkish 0.3764 S_India 0.5469 Uygur 0.0767 or
Georgian 0.3396 Hazara 0.1228 S_India 0.5376 or
Sicily 0.2106 Burusho 0.4290 S_India 0.3604 or
Armenian 0.3290 S_India 0.5339 Uygur 0.1372 or
Cypriot 0.2351 Hazara 0.1146 N_India 0.6503 or
Armenian 0.1988 Burusho 0.3607 N_India 0.4406 or
Turkish 0.2428 Burusho 0.2590 N_India 0.4981

-----------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, since this was established (though the Turkmen was new to me but still some basis for it) I realized that I know nothing about my main South Indian heritage and have been trying to discover the roots of this. Our roots are in Northern India which made this all the more confusing since before these tests I thought we had no connection to South India. So I put my results into GEDMATCH and ran Dodecad K12b and K7b and these are the results for the 4 pop. match.

K12b:
Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Gond + Iranian + Meena + Turkmens @ 1.405
2 Iranian + Meena + Nihali + Turkmens @ 1.704
3 Kurd + Meena + Nihali + Turkmens @ 1.849
4 Gond + Kurd + Meena + Turkmens @ 1.903
5 Gond + Iyer + Kurds + Turkmens @ 1.907
6 Gond + Iyer + Kurd + Turkmens @ 1.935
7 Iranians + Meena + Nihali + Turkmens @ 1.937
8 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu + Gond + Iranian + Turkmens @ 1.943
9 Kurds + Meena + Nihali + Turkmens @ 1.951
10 Gond + Iranian + Iyer + Turkmens @ 1.957
11 Gond + Indian + Iranian + Turkmens @ 1.983
12 Gond + Kurds + Meena + Turkmens @ 1.996
13 Gond + Indian + Kurd + Turkmens @ 1.997
14 Gond + Iranians + Meena + Turkmens @ 2.002
15 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu + Gond + Kurd + Turkmens @ 2.003
16 Gond + Indian + Kurds + Turkmens @ 2.077
17 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu + Gond + Iranians + Turkmens @ 2.104
18 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu + Gond + Kurds + Turkmens @ 2.124
19 Azerbaijan_Jews + Burusho + Nihali + Pathan @ 2.174
20 Gond + Iranians + Kshatriya + Turkmens @ 2.196

K7b:
Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Abhkasians + Gond + Muslim + Turkmens @ 0.551
2 Abhkasians + Dharkars + Gond + Turkmens @ 0.587
3 Abhkasians + Iyengar + Nihali + Turkmens @ 0.594
4 Burusho + Nihali + Pathan + Uzbekistan_Jews @ 0.705
5 Abhkasians + Iyer + Nihali + Turkmens @ 0.712
6 Abhkasians + Gond + Tharus + Turkmens @ 0.745
7 Gond + Iranian + Meena + Turkmens @ 0.794
8 Georgians + Gond + Muslim + Turkmens @ 0.840
9 Abhkasians + Gond + Kanjars + Turkmens @ 0.841
10 Abhkasians + Indian + Nihali + Turkmens @ 0.874
11 Abhkasians + Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu + Nihali + Turkmens @ 0.901
12 Azerbaijan_Jews + Burusho + Nihali + Pathan @ 0.909
13 Abhkasians + Gond + Meghawal + Turkmens @ 0.970
14 Dharkars + Georgians + Gond + Turkmens @ 1.035
15 Abhkasians + Chenchus + Gond + North_Ossetians @ 1.053
16 Abhkasians + Gond + INS30 + Turkmens @ 1.093
17 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh + Brahmins_from_Uttaranchal + Georgia_Jews + Iyer @ 1.101
18 Cochin_Jews + Georgians + Nihali + Tajiks @ 1.120
19 Georgians + Gond + Kanjars + Turkmens @ 1.126
20 Assyrian + Burusho + Nihali + Pathan @ 1.143



How accurate is this? I notice the Gond come up a lot and was reading about them. There seems to be quite a bit in Utter Pradesh where we are mostly from. Also don't understand what "muslim" pop. is but I was reading about the Dharkar and they also seem to be in Utter Pradesh. K12b seems to be accurate on the Iranian/Turkmen area and placed Gond/Meena as my other populations. Am I close to solving this mystery? :)

AJL
06-09-2013, 05:06 AM
If we take South Indian as one-half, the other half is averaging around Turkmenistan. However that could simply mean you are from the average of South India and Turkmenistan, which is somewhere around the India/Pakistan border (i.e. 39% of the way from South India to Turkey, which I believe puts you somewhere a little into Pakistan). Did your ancestors live in what is now Pakistan and come to India during the partition for religious reasons?

rockman
06-09-2013, 05:26 AM
If we take South Indian as one-half, the other half is averaging around Turkmenistan. However that could simply mean you are from the average of South India and Turkmenistan, which is somewhere around the India/Pakistan border (i.e. 39% of the way from South India to Turkey, which I believe puts you somewhere a little into Pakistan). Did your ancestors live in what is now Pakistan and come to India during the partition for religious reasons?

Hello AJL

Yes that's what Dr. Mcdonald gave me, as resembling Pakistan. But we have no racial links to Pakistan, our family comes from Northern India (Utter Pradesh and West Bengal). We have links to Oghuz Turks who formed a dynasty in South East India and I assume that this probably comes from them but we don't have much knowledge of this beyond this one figure but central asia is cited as one of our origins. Also my maternal side is said to be from Shiraz and Isphahan in Iran and Nordoid Iranian phenotypes are seen among 3rd cousins (who are not as mixed as us) so I know we have links to Iran though it doesn't show up as prominently.

We are basically Northern Indians of mixed heritage, but the biggest mystery is my South Indian link since I never knew about this before. In fact I know next to nothing about my Indian ancestry despite it being at 60-64%

This is what Dr. Mcdonald wrote to me:

"which, as you see, are adding India, Pakistan or the Uygur, and the real Mideast.
This means that its in-between, or actually mixed. The spot on the map
is clearly Pakistan ... but no Pakistani group is even a modestly pasable fit, all are abysmal.
So its probably mixed."

AJL
06-09-2013, 05:50 AM
Okay, that makes sense -- an average between northern India and southern Iran would give you a spot in Pakistan but poor matching to actual people from there. It's hard to say exactly what proprtion of your ancestry is from either place, but there's where you could hope to use records to tease a little information out.

If you haven't already, you may want to join the Harappa Project, which will probably give better genetic analysis for you than Geno 2.0.

Incidentally, "phenotype" just means the physical manifestation of your genes, and "Nordoid" is really not a phrase that scientists or anthropologists have used for perhaps 50 years.

rockman
06-09-2013, 05:53 AM
Okay, that makes sense -- an average between northern India and southern Iran would give you a spot in Pakistan but poor matching to actual people from there. It's hard to say exactly what proprtion of your ancestry is from either place, but there's where you could hope to use records to tease a little information out.

If you haven't already, you may want to join the Harappa Project, which will probably give better genetic analysis for you than Geno 2.0.

Incidentally, "phenotype" just means the physical manifestation of your genes, and "Nordoid" is really not a phrase that scientists or anthropologists have used for perhaps 50 years.

Ahh, gotcha. :)

So where can I join the Harappa Project?

AJL
06-09-2013, 02:40 PM
Ahh, gotcha. :)

So where can I join the Harappa Project?

http://www.harappadna.org/participation/

Enjoy!

newtoboard
06-23-2013, 09:42 PM
Which R1b clade do you carry?

DMXX
06-23-2013, 11:29 PM
It is likely, in my opinion, your non-South-Asian genetic component is displayed as North Caucasian rather than Iranian because of the reference samples FTDNA has used.

I was provided the results of a fully Iranian FTDNA FF participant over one year ago, who showed a large portion of ancestry coming from the North Caucasus despite their known ancestry being predominantly from Northeast Iran.

After exploring the matter further, it is probable that FTDNA's reference Iranians are from Behar et al., who are presumably from south Iran if their elevated African and Southwest Asian autosomal components are anything to go by (supported by Harappa's analysis several years back).

So, those with a chunk of ancestry from the mountain zone encompassing (or around) the upper Zagros and Alborz mountains could to be shown as having North Caucasian rather than Iranian ancestry on FTDNA.

rockman
06-24-2013, 03:47 AM
newtoboard: I am only R1b

DMXX: Interesting that you say that, I was looking at the Zagros mountains on Google Maps and noticed it is very close to Isfahan and Shiraz. I guess at this time it won't be possible to pinpoint what groups we belong to until there are larger sample sizes? One thing is for sure we do have stories linking us to Iran and Central Asia, and the Turkmen are in the Caucasus/Central Asian range. What do you think of my Dodecad K12b results, the Iranian and Turkmen do fit so do you think my Indian component is also fairly accurate, more specifically the Gondi (or wider "Adivasi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adivasi)" that Gondi is a part of)? How accurate are the distances that it calculates?

Also these are my Geno 2.0 results: http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=489&d=1372020114

Are North East Asian and "Native American" found frequently among Iranians or this is possibly just Central Asian?

DMXX
06-24-2013, 09:49 AM
newtoboard: I am only R1b

DMXX: Interesting that you say that, I was looking at the Zagros mountains on Google Maps and noticed it is very close to Isfahan and Shiraz. I guess at this time it won't be possible to pinpoint what groups we belong to until there are larger sample sizes? One thing is for sure we do have stories linking us to Iran and Central Asia, and the Turkmen are in the Caucasus/Central Asian range. What do you think of my Dodecad K12b results, the Iranian and Turkmen do fit so do you think my Indian component is also fairly accurate, more specifically the Gondi (or wider "Adivasi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adivasi)" that Gondi is a part of)? How accurate are the distances that it calculates?

Also these are my Geno 2.0 results: http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=489&d=1372020114

Are North East Asian and "Native American" found frequently among Iranians or this is possibly just Central Asian?

The distances for the 4-way pop matches are in the 1-2 range, so they're very good fits. It does look like you're half Subcontinental and half from the Iranian plateau.

Also, part of the NE Asian will come from the Iranian-Turkmen type heritage, although the Native American probably doesn't.

rockman
06-24-2013, 06:19 PM
Hmm then where do you think the Native American comes from? Could it possibly be found from other Central Asian groups who intermixed?

DMXX
06-24-2013, 08:10 PM
Hmm then where do you think the Native American comes from? Could it possibly be found from other Central Asian groups who intermixed?

It could well be. One potential problem is, then only two Eurasian Old World populations with any Native American components in their reference set are Altaians and Mongolians, both of whom are East-Central Asian ethnic groups. Tajiks lack it, despite them showing considerable East Eurasian ancestry in the open-source projects. That being said, the Geno 2.0 doesn't include Uzbeks, the Turkmen or Hazaras, so perhaps it may be found in them.

rockman
06-24-2013, 10:45 PM
Turkmen and Uzbek's are probably the most likely candidates, though would Mongol ancestry from the invasions still linger in Central Asian/Iranian populations?

DMXX
06-24-2013, 11:35 PM
Turkmen and Uzbek's are probably the most likely candidates, though would Mongol ancestry from the invasions still linger in Central Asian/Iranian populations?

Well, it'd be hard to separate Turkish from Mongolian contributions in both the Iranian plateau and Central Asia. With that being said, from my reading on the matter, I'm inclined to presume most of the Asian signals found in places like Iran are due to Turkish settlements. The Mongols, on the other hand, razed through entire communities rather than settling down.

soulblighter
06-26-2013, 03:20 PM
I don't think admixture results can be used to figure out ancestral migrations unless ancestral DNA is actually available. It is more to compare ones genome to an existing group that holds similar level of admixture. The labels used could have been called A,B,C,D etc rather than "SE Asian", "NE Asian" etc.
Nevertheless here are two possibilities for the NE admixture if one would like to speculate:

1) The "NE Asian DNA segment" common to Subcontinentals and Central Asian Mongol/Turkic tribes may actually be from the Iranian speaking tribes who used to inhabit Central Asia before 2000 years. It is incidentally called "NE Asian" because of the affiliation of current Central Asian communities with "NE Asia".
This may explain why my Dad's mix (who has no Turkic/Mongol ancestor in at least the last 1000 years) would have "NE asian" admixture.

2) The population assignment uses a BLU(best linear unbiased) estimator or a MS(mean square) estimator of some kind, and simply uses the base segments chosen to bin your DNA based on similarity. So it had to optimize your data with the basis vectors chosen, and the best fit was obtained by giving you 2% native american DNA, and giving my dad some NE asian admixture.

rockman
06-26-2013, 09:50 PM
I'm curious, can you share you fathers Dodecad K7b and K12b Oracle-4 results including the Admixture proportions? I want to compare them to my own.

soulblighter
06-27-2013, 03:18 PM
I do not have results for Dad's family finder (only did Geno 2.0 for him), but here are Family finder results for me and my Mom. I don't expect my dad's results to be too far off.
My FF results come out as 100% North Indian for Me, and 97% N.India+3% Middle eastern(Adygei etc.) for my mom.

K7b Mine:
492

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Iyer @ 1.812
2 Iyengar @ 2.062
3 Indian @ 3.329
4 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu @ 3.651
5 GIH30 @ 5.224
6 INS30 @ 5.766
7 Meghawal @ 5.885
8 Kshatriya @ 6.081
9 Kurmi @ 6.461
10 Lambadi @ 6.493
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% GIH30 +50% Kshatriya @ 1.609
2 50% Iyengar +50% Iyer @ 1.809
3 50% Iyer +50% Iyer @ 1.812
4 50% Kurmi +50% Meena @ 2.031
5 50% Meena +50% Velamas @ 2.039
6 50% Iyengar +50% Iyengar @ 2.062
7 50% Meena +50% Meghawal @ 2.221
8 50% Indian +50% Iyer @ 2.235
9 50% INS30 +50% Meena @ 2.251
10 50% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh +50% Velamas @ 2.377
Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Meena +25% Kanjars +25% Velamas @ 1.239
2 50% Velamas +25% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh +25% Meena @ 1.275
3 50% Velamas +25% Jatt +25% Kanjars @ 1.289
4 50% GIH30 +25% Jatt +25% Piramalai_Kallars @ 1.320
5 50% Meena +25% Iyer +25% Piramalai_Kallars @ 1.350
6 50% Iyer +25% Meena +25% Velamas @ 1.388
7 50% Meena +25% Iyengar +25% Piramalai_Kallars @ 1.424
8 50% Velamas +25% Jatt +25% Meghawal @ 1.457
9 50% Velamas +25% Dharkars +25% Jatt @ 1.476
10 50% GIH30 +25% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh +25% Iyer @ 1.477
Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Kanjars + Meena + Meena + Velamas @ 1.239
2 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh + Meena + Velamas + Velamas @ 1.275
3 Jatt + Kanjars + Velamas + Velamas @ 1.289
4 GIH30 + GIH30 + Jatt + Piramalai_Kallars @ 1.320
5 Iyer + Meena + Meena + Piramalai_Kallars @ 1.350
6 Iyengar + Jatt + Piramalai_Kallars + Velamas @ 1.380
7 Iyer + Iyer + Meena + Velamas @ 1.388
8 Iyer + Jatt + Piramalai_Kallars + Velamas @ 1.416
9 Iyengar + Meena + Meena + Piramalai_Kallars @ 1.424
10 Jatt + Meghawal + Velamas + Velamas @ 1.457
11 Dharkars + Jatt + Velamas + Velamas @ 1.476
12 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh + GIH30 + GIH30 + Iyer @ 1.477
13 Iyengar + Iyer + Meena + Velamas @ 1.484
14 GIH30 + Kshatriya + Meena + Velamas @ 1.504
15 Dharkars + Meena + Meena + Velamas @ 1.511
16 Indian + Jatt + Piramalai_Kallars + Velamas @ 1.525
17 GIH30 + Iyer + Kanjars + Meena @ 1.531
18 GIH30 + Jatt + Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste + Velamas @ 1.535
19 GIH30 + GIH30 + Jatt + Kol @ 1.536
20 GIH30 + Iyengar + Kanjars + Meena @ 1.541

K7b Mom's
494

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Indian @ 2.403
2 Iyengar @ 2.550
3 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu @ 2.823
4 Iyer @ 3.145
5 Kshatriya @ 5.435
6 Meena @ 5.791
7 GIH30 @ 6.655
8 INS30 @ 7.906
9 Meghawal @ 8.105
10 Lambadi @ 8.465
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% GIH30 +50% Meena @ 1.446
2 50% INS30 +50% Meena @ 2.174
3 50% Indian +50% Iyengar @ 2.260
4 50% Meena +50% Meghawal @ 2.345
5 50% Indian +50% Iyer @ 2.376
6 50% Indian +50% Indian @ 2.403
7 50% Kurmi +50% Meena @ 2.441
8 50% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu +50% Iyengar @ 2.534
9 50% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu +50% Indian @ 2.548
10 50% Iyengar +50% Iyengar @ 2.550
Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% GIH30 +25% Jatt +25% Velamas @ 1.169
2 50% Meena +25% Iyengar +25% Velamas @ 1.350
3 50% Meena +25% Iyer +25% Velamas @ 1.366
4 50% Velamas +25% Iyengar +25% Jatt @ 1.370
5 50% Velamas +25% Indian +25% Jatt @ 1.376
6 50% Meena +25% Indian +25% Velamas @ 1.426
7 50% GIH30 +25% Meena +25% Meena @ 1.446
8 50% Meena +25% GIH30 +25% GIH30 @ 1.446
9 50% Velamas +25% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu +25% Jatt @ 1.491
10 50% Velamas +25% Iyer +25% Jatt @ 1.492
Using 4 populations approximation:
1 GIH30 + GIH30 + Jatt + Velamas @ 1.169
2 Iyengar + Meena + Meena + Velamas @ 1.350
3 Iyer + Meena + Meena + Velamas @ 1.366
4 Iyengar + Jatt + Velamas + Velamas @ 1.370
5 Indian + Jatt + Velamas + Velamas @ 1.376
6 Indian + Meena + Meena + Velamas @ 1.426
7 GIH30 + GIH30 + Meena + Meena @ 1.446
8 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu + Jatt + Velamas + Velamas @ 1.491
9 Iyer + Jatt + Velamas + Velamas @ 1.492
10 GIH30 + GIH30 + Jatt + Kurmi @ 1.516
11 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu + Meena + Meena + Velamas @ 1.526
12 GIH30 + Iyer + Meena + Meena @ 1.535
13 GIH30 + Iyer + Jatt + Velamas @ 1.561
14 GIH30 + GIH30 + GIH30 + Jatt @ 1.570
15 GIH30 + INS30 + Jatt + Velamas @ 1.590
16 GIH30 + Kurmi + Meena + Meena @ 1.593
17 GIH30 + Iyengar + Jatt + Velamas @ 1.622
18 GIH30 + GIH30 + INS30 + Jatt @ 1.627
19 GIH30 + Jatt + Meghawal + Velamas @ 1.629
20 GIH30 + INS30 + Meena + Meena @ 1.641

K12b Mine
496

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu @ 4.126
2 Indian @ 4.169
3 Iyengar @ 5.379
4 Kshatriya @ 5.564
5 Iyer @ 5.949
6 Kurmi @ 6.957
7 GIH30 @ 7.240
8 Lambadi @ 7.298
9 INS30 @ 7.443
10 Meghawal @ 7.697
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Chenchus +50% Jatt @ 2.808
2 50% Kshatriya +50% Kurmi @ 3.187
3 50% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh +50% Velamas @ 3.283
4 50% Jatt +50% SAKILLI @ 3.286
5 50% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh +50% Kurmi @ 3.343
6 50% Indian +50% Lambadi @ 3.440
7 50% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh +50% INS30 @ 3.440
8 50% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu +50% Kurmi @ 3.502
9 50% Chamar +50% Jatt @ 3.606
10 50% Indian +50% Kurmi @ 3.675
Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Muslim +25% Pathan +25% Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste @ 1.331
2 50% Muslim +25% Dusadh +25% Pathan @ 1.340
3 50% Muslim +25% Pathan +25% Uttar_Pradesh_Scheduled_Caste @ 1.363
4 50% Kurmi +25% Dusadh +25% Pathan @ 1.396
5 50% Muslim +25% Kurumba +25% Pathan @ 1.399
6 50% Kurmi +25% Pathan +25% Uttar_Pradesh_Scheduled_Caste @ 1.445
7 50% Muslim +25% Pathan +25% Piramalai_Kallars @ 1.624
8 50% INS30 +25% Chenchus +25% Pathan @ 1.749
9 50% Kurmi +25% Pathan +25% Piramalai_Kallars @ 1.753
10 50% Dusadh +25% Indian +25% Pathan @ 1.764
Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Chenchus + Iyengar + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.152
2 Dusadh + Kurmi + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.184
3 Kurmi + Muslim + Pathan + Uttar_Pradesh_Scheduled_Caste @ 1.225
4 Chenchus + Indian + Kanjars + Pathan @ 1.243
5 Chenchus + Iyengar + Kurmi + Pathan @ 1.259
6 Chenchus + Iyengar + Kanjars + Pathan @ 1.270
7 Dusadh + Kanjars + Kurmi + Pathan @ 1.330
8 Muslim + Muslim + Pathan + Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste @ 1.331
9 Dusadh + Muslim + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.340
10 Muslim + Muslim + Pathan + Uttar_Pradesh_Scheduled_Caste @ 1.363
11 Chenchus + GIH30 + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.363
12 Chenchus + GIH30 + Kanjars + Pathan @ 1.375
13 Chenchus + Indian + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.377
14 Dusadh + Kurmi + Kurmi + Pathan @ 1.396
15 Kurumba + Muslim + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.399
16 Chenchus + Iyer + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.417
17 Chenchus + Iyer + Kanjars + Pathan @ 1.419
18 Kanjars + Kurmi + Pathan + Uttar_Pradesh_Scheduled_Caste @ 1.421
19 Kurmi + Kurmi + Pathan + Uttar_Pradesh_Scheduled_Caste @ 1.445
20 Chenchus + INS30 + Iyengar + Pathan @ 1.446

K12b Mom's
497

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu @ 3.988
2 Indian @ 4.359
3 Kshatriya @ 4.892
4 Iyengar @ 6.337
5 Iyer @ 6.633
6 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh @ 8.417
7 GIH30 @ 8.744
8 Lambadi @ 8.824
9 Kurmi @ 9.164
10 INS30 @ 9.373
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Pathan +50% SAKILLI @ 2.663
2 50% Chamar +50% Pathan @ 3.040
3 50% Chenchus +50% Jatt @ 3.186
4 50% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu +50% Kshatriya @ 3.600
5 50% Jatt +50% Piramalai_Kallars @ 3.653
6 50% Indian +50% Kshatriya @ 3.729
7 50% Jatt +50% Kol @ 3.791
8 50% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh +50% GIH30 @ 3.844
9 50% Kol +50% Pathan @ 3.907
10 50% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu +50% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu @ 3.988
Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Kurmi +25% Muslim +25% Pathan @ 1.355
2 50% Kurmi +25% Kanjars +25% Pathan @ 1.364
3 50% Muslim +25% Kurmi +25% Pathan @ 1.490
4 50% Kurmi +25% Dharkars +25% Pathan @ 1.543
5 50% Kurmi +25% Kurmi +25% Pathan @ 1.548
6 50% Kurmi +25% INS30 +25% Pathan @ 1.561
7 50% Muslim +25% INS30 +25% Pathan @ 1.605
8 50% Kurmi +25% Pathan +25% Tharus @ 1.668
9 50% Muslim +25% Pathan +25% Tharus @ 1.717
10 50% Iyengar +25% Chenchus +25% Pathan @ 1.725
Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Kurmi + Kurmi + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.355
2 Kanjars + Kurmi + Kurmi + Pathan @ 1.364
3 INS30 + Kurmi + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.426
4 INS30 + Muslim + Pathan + Tharus @ 1.447
5 Kurmi + Muslim + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.490
6 INS30 + Kurmi + Pathan + Tharus @ 1.524
7 Dharkars + Kurmi + Kurmi + Pathan @ 1.543
8 Kurmi + Muslim + Pathan + Tharus @ 1.547
9 Kurmi + Kurmi + Kurmi + Pathan @ 1.548
10 Chenchus + Indian + Iyengar + Pathan @ 1.555
11 INS30 + Kurmi + Kurmi + Pathan @ 1.561
12 Kanjars + Kurmi + Pathan + Tharus @ 1.562
13 INS30 + Muslim + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.605
14 Kanjars + Kurmi + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.615
15 Chenchus + GIH30 + Kshatriya + Pathan @ 1.626
16 INS30 + Kanjars + Kurmi + Pathan @ 1.631
17 Kurmi + Meghawal + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.632
18 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh + Chenchus + Pathan + Velamas @ 1.645
19 Dharkars + Kurmi + Muslim + Pathan @ 1.650
20 INS30 + Kanjars + Pathan + Tharus @ 1.655

rockman
06-28-2013, 09:45 PM
Thanks Soulblighter

Your results are quite close to mines. Also seems like it catches your Iyer ancestry pretty well, and since I am mixed it seems Dodecad's estimation of my "Gond" ancestry might be accurate (or at least the wider Adivasi) since I only know of the Iranian/Central Asian ancestry.

Why does Dodecad show lower Indian admixture than FTDNA? For me as well you will see between 30-40% Indian (Dodecad, Harappa, MDLP etc) while FTDNA and Dr. Macdonald shows around 60% South Indian.

Also any idea on what "Southern" is on Dodecad K7b?

Anyways here is my K12b:

498

K7b:

499

soulblighter
06-28-2013, 10:21 PM
You actually get South Indian on FTDNA? I don't get any, and neither does my mom. I get 100% North Indian.
With your mixed ancestry, I guess it is difficult for anyone to reliably place you.
I would suggest doing the DIYdodecad in byseg mode to see which regions match what populations. Or even better do a chrompainter analysis. Join harappadna project and request Zack who runs it, to do a chrompainter run for you.

rockman
06-28-2013, 10:37 PM
Well I think the Iranian and Turkmen are accurate, so it is probable that my Indian ancestry is part of the Gond (or Adivasi ethnic group) since I read they are also in Utter Pradesh (we are from West Bengal and UP).

Anyways I sent an email to Zack, I'll paste results once I get them. I have DIYDodecad but how do I run it in byseg mode?

soulblighter
07-03-2013, 05:18 AM
Well I think the Iranian and Turkmen are accurate, so it is probable that my Indian ancestry is part of the Gond (or Adivasi ethnic group) since I read they are also in Utter Pradesh (we are from West Bengal and UP).

Anyways I sent an email to Zack, I'll paste results once I get them. I have DIYDodecad but how do I run it in byseg mode?

on the par file, you have to edit the genomewide to byseg.

rockman
07-04-2013, 12:48 AM
I changed genomewide to byseg after opening the par files for harappaworld and dv3 in Excel but when I run Dodecad in command prompt I get errors. What am i doing wrong?


This is the error:
At line 90 of file DIYDodecad.f90 (Unit 10 "harappaworld.par")
Traceback: not available, compile with -ftrace=frame or -ftrace=full
Fortran runtime error: End of file

soulblighter
07-04-2013, 03:13 AM
I changed genomewide to byseg after opening the par files for harappaworld and dv3 in Excel but when I run Dodecad in command prompt I get errors. What am i doing wrong?


This is the error:
At line 90 of file DIYDodecad.f90 (Unit 10 "harappaworld.par")
Traceback: not available, compile with -ftrace=frame or -ftrace=full
Fortran runtime error: End of file

With byseg, you also need to specify the window size and step size.
for example, replace genomewide with the following in the par file and run:

byseg
500
50

rockman
07-05-2013, 04:33 AM
Thanks, it worked. It seems long how do I interpret this?

Dr_McNinja
08-27-2013, 09:51 PM
How did it go for you, rockman? Did you figure out how to interpret the byseg results? I'm also trying to decipher my South Indian admixture. Here's my thread:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1269-Somewhat-unusual-results-for-my-group

soulblighter
08-28-2013, 03:35 PM
Byseg results are useful if you find large chunks with a certain population affinity through multiple chromosomes. If everything is in tiny bits and pieces, it is going to be difficult.

Dr_McNinja
08-29-2013, 03:37 PM
Byseg results are useful if you find large chunks with a certain population affinity through multiple chromosomes. If everything is in tiny bits and pieces, it is going to be difficult.It surprised me, the repeated chunks of Mediterranean/SW Asian stick out more, despite being some of my smallest admixture numbers. There are fewer giant chunks of Northern European and some of them segue into the Caucasian chunks. Also surprising is the coherency of the Beringian/NE-Asian chunks which come together and the NE-Asian chunks seem to include the Papuan chunks or the Siberian ones at other times. Some of the Northern European chunks included NE-Asian and in one chromosome the Northern European seemed to be with SW Asian (#21 which was half that, and the other half Mediterranean).

I'm thinking that some of my NE Euro admixture is actually very ancient (probably most of it is ancient) and only some of it is "newer" and linked to other populations (like Caucasian or Mediterranean/SW-Asian). Most of the Caucasian and NE-Euro highs are on different chromosomes so most of mine must have come from separate sources.

Dr_McNinja
08-30-2013, 05:14 PM
asldja;d

Sorry, wrong thread

rockman
08-30-2013, 09:38 PM
Dr. Mcninja: Nope, haven't really figured it out. It's really long as well lol.