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MnM
03-21-2017, 07:29 PM
Would be interested in seeing some of your results. I myself, am also thinking about taking the test.

fished
04-01-2017, 10:45 PM
Minho:
14824

Guarda:
14825

Leiria:
14826

Porto:
14827

Algarve:
14828

fished
04-01-2017, 10:46 PM
Azores:
14829

Madeira:
14830

RCO
04-01-2017, 11:31 PM
23andMe changed the system
My results - Brazilian Portuguese Colonial Frontiersman
14831

https://www.23andme.com/published-report/a8a63a2d6eb24fb6/?share_id=331993825a98463a

fished
04-02-2017, 06:06 AM
For comparison's sake, here are some Spanish results:

Andalusia:
14839

Castile-La Mancha:
14840

Catalonia:
14841

Extremadura:
14842

Valencia:
14843

rocky
04-09-2017, 08:15 AM
Very good results of Iberians.

For some reason I always thought that the North African would be a bit higher.

fished
04-09-2017, 07:53 PM
Very good results of Iberians.

For some reason I always thought that the North African would be a bit higher.

23andme's "Iberian" component contains some North African.

Sikeliot
04-30-2017, 08:02 PM
Doesn't surprise me to have some SSA in the islands (Madeira mostly, but also to a lesser extent the Azores). The islands had slaves brought from West Africa, often mediated through Cape Verde -- most likely Senegambian and Angolan. I've seen it higher though (one Madeiran had almost 5%).

fished
05-01-2017, 03:28 AM
Doesn't surprise me to have some SSA in the islands (Madeira mostly, but also to a lesser extent the Azores). The islands had slaves brought from West Africa, often mediated through Cape Verde -- most likely Senegambian and Angolan. I've seen it higher though (one Madeiran had almost 5%).

My great-aunt, who is fully Madeiran, is 6.24% SSA on Eurasia K3. She's more African than any other European I've seen so far, but I don't doubt that some Canarians might have her beat.

Sikeliot
05-01-2017, 03:44 AM
My great-aunt, who is fully Madeiran, is 6.24% SSA on Eurasia K3. She's more African than any other European I've seen so far, but I don't doubt that some Canarians might have her beat.

What does she score on 23andme, AncestryDNA or FTDNA?

Madeira and Canaries have SSA for different reasons. Much of the SSA in the Canary Islands is mediated through their North African DNA (Guanche) while Madeira received input directly from West and Central Africa in the slave trade, which means a small portion of their ancestry is shared with all Afro-diasporans.

fished
05-02-2017, 12:29 AM
What does she score on 23andme, AncestryDNA or FTDNA?

Madeira and Canaries have SSA for different reasons. Much of the SSA in the Canary Islands is mediated through their North African DNA (Guanche) while Madeira received input directly from West and Central Africa in the slave trade, which means a small portion of their ancestry is shared with all Afro-diasporans.

She tested through AncestryDNA, unfortunately I haven't seen her results there.

Sikeliot
05-02-2017, 12:35 AM
She tested through AncestryDNA, unfortunately I haven't seen her results there.

I would be interested to know if she scores "Senegal" or "Mali" since a lot of African slaves in Madeira came from there.

Ruderico
05-04-2017, 06:10 PM
Hello, long time lurker, first time poster.


fished, are you able to get more samples from roughly the same areas? If not then the results might not mean much as there is always a bit of variation. Still, surprised to see that the 3 people from northern Portugal score roughly the same despite being from Guarda, Porto or Minho. I would assume Viseu and Aveiro go the same way, while Bragança might change a little bit

fished
05-04-2017, 08:57 PM
Hello, long time lurker, first time poster.


fished, are you able to get more samples from roughly the same areas? If not then the results might not mean much as there is always a bit of variation. Still, surprised to see that the 3 people from northern Portugal score roughly the same despite being from Guarda, Porto or Minho. I would assume Viseu and Aveiro go the same way, while Bragança might change a little bit

I have a fair amount of results from the Azores and the Algarve, but unfortunately less from North Portugal. Most of my other Northern results have ancestry from multiple regions.

Minho:
15587

Porto and Aveiro:
15588

Porto, Minho, and Aveiro:
15589

Viseu and Guarda:
15591

Ruderico
05-04-2017, 10:46 PM
Yeah, the results do seem to vary slightly between each other and the previous ones, I suppose its mostly due to personal variation rather than actual location. There might be a small trend/cline, but for the most part it seems rather irrelevant to me
Thanks for sharing

Ruderico
05-11-2017, 09:59 AM
By the way, considering you got your hands on some Spanish samples, got any from Galicia? I would really like to seem how they compare to Portuguese samples from the North, eventhough variation might again be mostly from individual to individual.

I thought about taking the test myself, but I can't seem to justify spending so much money for what seems so little to me

RCO
05-11-2017, 06:02 PM
In one of the K36 versions of Eurogenes I received the Galician result first than Portuguese
1 Spain_Galicia @ 9,1686
2 Portugal @ 9,68572
Most of my Portuguese Colonial ancestry was from the Minho and Northern Portugal with a branch (um costado) from the ancient Brazilian Bandeirantes.

Post #106 - http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10347-(Unofficial)-oracle-for-Eurogenes-K36-256-reference-populations/page11

fished
05-11-2017, 09:56 PM
By the way, considering you got your hands on some Spanish samples, got any from Galicia? I would really like to seem how they compare to Portuguese samples from the North, eventhough variation might again be mostly from individual to individual.

I thought about taking the test myself, but I can't seem to justify spending so much money for what seems so little to me

15864

This person is 3/4 Galician, however she also has some Basque and Castilian ancestry.

23andme is doing a Mother's Day deal right now where the ancestry only test is only $79. Not sure if they're doing the same deal in Europe.

Ruderico
05-12-2017, 01:35 PM
23andme is doing a Mother's Day deal right now where the ancestry only test is only $79. Not sure if they're doing the same deal in Europe.

They ask me 149 USD atm, with shipping, but I guess the only really interesting thing for me would be the haplogroups. That and the Eurogenes tests by Davidski
How does 23andMe compare to FTNDA?

fished
05-12-2017, 09:34 PM
They ask me 149 USD atm, with shipping, but I guess the only really interesting thing for me would be the haplogroups. That and the Eurogenes tests by Davidski
How does 23andMe compare to FTNDA?

I personally find 23andme to be more precise than FTDNA in general, though some might disagree. But yeah, if you're interested in ancient ancestry, then Gedmatch is a most valuable resource. If you really just want haplogroups and Eurogenes results, I would suggest just buying whichever test is cheapest.

Kabah
05-27-2017, 10:34 PM
Are Portuguese and Spaniard Dna any different?? I mean can you see any differences even though it gets pump with "Iberian"

sweuro
05-27-2017, 10:38 PM
Are Portuguese and Spaniard Dna any different?? I mean can you see any differences even though it gets pump with "Iberian"
Spaniards tend to be more basque-shifted than portuguese.

Kabah
05-28-2017, 12:05 AM
Spaniards tend to be more basque-shifted than portuguese.


Oh nice to know there's a lot Basque ancestry in Northern Mexico my friend.

RCO
05-28-2017, 12:29 AM
We can also find specific Y-DNA and mtDNA clusters related to the Iberian languages, Galician and Portuguese, Castilian, Basque and Catalan sometimes associated with specific surnames.

ISC80
05-30-2017, 05:18 PM
For some time, I've been collecting 23andMe results of people from the Iberian Peninsula and the archipelagos of Spain and Portugal with the aim of discovering possible regional variations.

In the following link, you can consult the information obtained so far: iberiandna.com

That said, if you have four grandparents from a region of Spain or Portugal and you want to collaborate by providing your results completely anonymously, you can send me an email to the following address: iberian.atlas[at]gmail.com

Thank you.

Vaucano
06-11-2017, 12:38 PM
Hello!:beerchug:

South Portugal (Algarve) here:

http ://i.imgur.com/5ALEOFw.png

From what i've seen in 23andme it's like always in the 99.y% europe for us (iberians).

Luis
06-17-2017, 03:20 AM
She tested through AncestryDNA, unfortunately I haven't seen her results there.

Well, there was also importation of African slaves to the Canaries to work on the sugar cane plantations. That changed once the sugar industry moved to the Caribbean and Brazil. But, as in Madeira, there was slavery in the Canaries as well. The only thing sub-Saharan found among the Guanche remains are 7% of sub-Saharan maternal haplogroups, actually low, compared to other populations of North African origins, but that does not mean there were blacks among the Natives. Those were brought in later. By the way, a lot of Portuguese also settled in the Canaries, not only Spaniards.

fished
06-17-2017, 04:16 AM
Well, there was also importation of African slaves to the Canaries to work on the sugar cane plantations. That changed once the sugar industry moved to the Caribbean and Brazil. But, as in Madeira, there was slavery in the Canaries as well. The only thing sub-Saharan found among the Guanche remains are 7% of sub-Saharan maternal haplogroups, actually low, compared to other populations of North African origins, but that does not mean there were blacks among the Natives. Those were brought in later. By the way, a lot of Portuguese also settled in the Canaries, not only Spaniards.

I think you meant to quote Sikeliot, but it is certainly true that African slaves were brought to the Canaries, not only to Madeira.

Sikeliot
06-17-2017, 12:37 PM
Madeira and Canaries are like the Iberian equivalent of some white southerners in the US in terms of having absorbed SSA ancestry.

Luis
06-18-2017, 12:17 AM
I think you meant to quote Sikeliot, but it is certainly true that African slaves were brought to the Canaries, not only to Madeira.

That's right. I probably pushed the wrong button.

Sikeliot
06-18-2017, 02:33 PM
Of the Madeirans I've seen, their SSA ranged from 4.9% to 0.5%, with most around 2-3%. I assume some of this is directly from slavery (West Africans bought to Madeira) and some of it is due to more recent ancestry from Cape Verde.

Ruderico
06-22-2017, 11:33 PM
Spaniards tend to be more basque-shifted than portuguese.

Generally yes, but there's also a trend towards Central Europe in Catalonia, according to most analysis on Eurogenes.
That said, Davidski's qpAdm of Iberia (http://eurogenes.blogspot.pt/2017/03/qpadm-tour-of-iberia-and-france.html) - a shame he used Lengyel for Farmers instead of something more closely related to us - hints that the Portuguese have higher amounts of 'steppe', which is why they generally plot to the East of average Spaniards. It appears West Iberians also have a little bit more North African, but the levels are small anyway. Adding that Basque-related stuff in Spain makes the Portuguese trend towards North Italians (thus to the "SE") when compared to their brotherly neighbours.

Ruderico
06-28-2017, 01:45 PM
Again on the topic of Basque-related ancestry, LukaszM posted a K36 PCA (https://s18.postimg.org/ygpae7myv/pca.jpg) in which this seems to be a thing.
The Portuguese are the further away from Basques than all mainland Spaniards, which shouldn't be too surprising. Notice the interesting linear placing of these guys: Basques, La Rioja, SW_France, Cantabria, Aragón, Catalonia, Valencia, Asturias, Andalucia, Galicia, Portugal. Very clearly the geographically closer they are to Basques, the genetically more related they are.

Speculation ahead. This might be partially due to repopulating movements during the reconquista, in which people from the north were brought to 'populate' the south, and would have been more genetically closer to Basques than Andalucians/etc. I don't expect these northerners to have been the majority in most places, but it might have contributed to the spread of this higher Basque-related ancestry in most of Spain. In the West, due to geographical (and historical) separation from Basques, this repopulation would have a much more limited effect. That and pre-Roman Iberian-related ancestry, naturally.

I honestly don't know what else to read of it, tbh, I was expecting a bit more 'horizontal' variation within Iberia. I was also expeting North Italians to be placed closer to France and Iberia, for instance. No idea what's going on with Canarians. But then again I'm mostly a layman when it comes to genetic analysis, so I'll leave this sort of study to the usual residents of the forum, should they ever decide to do it.

fished
06-28-2017, 10:56 PM
Again on the topic of Basque-related ancestry, LukaszM posted a K36 PCA (https://s18.postimg.org/ygpae7myv/pca.jpg) in which this seems to be a thing.
The Portuguese are the further away from Basques than all mainland Spaniards, which shouldn't be too surprising. Notice the interesting linear placing of these guys: Basques, La Rioja, SW_France, Cantabria, Aragón, Catalonia, Valencia, Asturias, Andalucia, Galicia, Portugal. Very clearly the geographically closer they are to Basques, the genetically more related they are.

Speculation ahead. This might be partially due to repopulating movements during the reconquista, in which people from the north were brought to 'populate' the south, and would have been more genetically closer to Basques than Andalucians/etc. I don't expect these northerners to have been the majority in most places, but it might have contributed to the spread of this higher Basque-related ancestry in most of Spain. In the West, due to geographical (and historical) separation from Basques, this repopulation would have a much more limited effect. That and pre-Roman Iberian-related ancestry, naturally.

I honestly don't know what else to read of it, tbh, I was expecting a bit more 'horizontal' variation within Iberia. I was also expeting North Italians to be placed closer to France and Iberia, for instance. No idea what's going on with Canarians. But then again I'm mostly a layman when it comes to genetic analysis, so I'll leave this sort of study to the usual residents of the forum, should they ever decide to do it.

I agree that post-Reconquista repopulation may have had something of a homogenizing effect on some Spanish populations. In 2018 we'll be seeing a huge ancient DNA paper on Iberia by Carles Lalueza-Fox, with samples from a variety of historical periods and cultures from the Neolithic to medieval times, including Celtiberians, Visigoths, and Muslims. I'm hopeful that this paper could clarify a lot of points regarding the post-Bronze Age population history of Iberia.

catman44
08-20-2017, 06:05 PM
why are a number of those iberian 23andme samples showing east Asian/Amerindian ?

PCO
09-09-2017, 12:46 AM
The Amerindian is likely due to back migration from the colonies in the Americas. The East Asian is also likely in part due to back migration from the Asian colonies(It was very common for the Portuguese to marry local women to improve relations and trade with the locals) and also from Asian slaves that were imported and later absorbed.

Vicmalaga
10-18-2017, 10:35 AM
Minha composição, sendo que os portugueses são de Lisboa e Madeira, o espanhol é de Málaga, e o italiano é de Veneza. Não há uma data precisa da chegada do meu trisavô português no Brasil, ele era de Lisboa e dizem que filho bastardo de um nobre português, e casado com uma filha de suiça com um português da Madeira. Estimo entre 1820 e 1870.

Europe: 92.3%
Southern European
60.5%
Iberian
16.6%
Broadly Southern European
43.8%
Northwestern European
20.6%
British & Irish
6.4%
French & German
2.5%
Scandinavian
0.6%
Broadly Northwestern European
11.0%
Broadly European
11.3%
Sub-Saharan African: 6.1%
Central & South African
2.9%
West African
2.1%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African
1.1%
Unassigned: 1,7%

Ruderico
04-05-2018, 10:42 AM
So, now that 23nadme has additional geographic regions and dots, did any of you get any unexpected results?

Lusitano
04-10-2018, 01:13 PM
So, now that 23nadme has additional geographic regions and dots, did any of you get any unexpected results?

Cinco pontos em Portugal e no resto está tudo a zero. Acho normal, o nosso italiano e britânico deve ser bem mais antigo e como tal esses segmentos não vão estar associados a essas populações tão fácilmente.

Underworld
04-10-2018, 01:45 PM
Eu tenho 5 pontos em Portugal e 1 em Espanha. Não sei a técnica que eles usam, mas do que vi até agora (só vi o do Lusitano e o meu até agora...) parecem distinguir bem Portugal de Espanha.

Edit: Estou com curiosidade em saber se os Galegos têm mais dots em Portugal ou em Espanha? Deve ser uma confusão. Mas Espanha deve ganhar devido às amostras de outros Galegos. Estamos separados deles há bastante tempo...

jeanL
04-10-2018, 03:01 PM
It seems there was a heavy presence of Portuguese people (Specially from Northern Portugal) in the Canary Islands. A lot of people I share with are getting 5 dots in the Portuguese in spite of not having any recent Portuguese ancestry and the only non-Peninsular Spanish ancestry being Canary Islander.

Here is my gf results. She has known ancestry from Cuenca and Sant Feliu de Guíxols in the paternal side and known Canary Islander on her maternal side.

22581

These are the results for her brother:

22582

These are the results from my Paternal grandmother who has 7/16 Great Great Grandparents born in the Canary Islands. The others are Cuban of Canarian descent. It is worth noting that she has some Portuguese last name such a Pereira.

22583

My mother who has no known ancestry from Portugal but does have a great-grandparent from Murcia; great-grandmother from Galicia and also some distant ancestry from Galicia in her father's side. No known recent Canary Islander ancestry but having Cuban Ancestry it is almost a given that she will have at some point Canary Islander ancestry.

22584

Ruderico
04-10-2018, 03:49 PM
I wonder if that has something to do with Galicians rather than Portuguese individuals. Galicians did experience a large diaspora in the last few centuries, and considering how similar they are to us, it might skew the results.

Or maybe not, maybe they did indeed sample plenty of Galicians and considered them as part of the Spanish group (as they should).
Are East French/West Germans getting their results properly displayed (as in, E_French getting none, or very few, points in German and vice versa)? If not, this might be a similar issue

Underworld
04-10-2018, 04:21 PM
I wonder if that has something to do with Galicians rather than Portuguese individuals. Galicians did experience a large diaspora in the last few centuries, and considering how similar they are to us, it might skew the results.

Or maybe not, maybe they did indeed sample plenty of Galicians and considered them as part of the Spanish group (as they should).
Are East French/West Germans getting their results properly displayed (as in, E_French getting none, or very few, points in German and vice versa)?

There is known Portuguese migration to the Canary Islands. This study - Portuguese migration to the Canary Islands: An analysis based on surnames - tries to put a number on that migration:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225045960_Portuguese_migration_to_the_Canary_Islan ds_An_analysis_based_on_surnames

Also, quoting a website about the history of the Canary Islands:


"The richness of the island resulted in immigration not just from Castille, but also of Portugese, Italians, Catalans, Basques and other northern Europeans. Indeed, Fernandez de Lugo was accused at successive judicial enquiries of favouring Genoese and Portugese above native Castilian. The period of immigration was intense but relatively short-lived - after the 1520s immigration almost ceased, until the eighteenth century."

Together with some migrations of Galicians possibly biasing the results towards Portugal, it could explain some of the Canary Islanders results. I'd still expect Canary islanders to be a lot more of Spanish descent than Portuguese though. There are probably regional differences, with some sections of the Canaries having had more Portuguese settlements, explaining the results of some of them. From the study I quoted above, the island with the most Portuguese surnames, at 22%, is El Hierro. The other Islands have an average of about 7%.

Kratos
04-11-2018, 08:54 AM
Anyone knows why Portuguese results have Northwestern Europe and British&Irish? And quite high, above 10%. Is this a prove of Celtic origin? Or not?

Ruderico
04-11-2018, 09:34 AM
Anyone knows why Portuguese results have Northwestern Europe and British&Irish? And quite high, above 10%. Is this a prove of Celtic origin? Or not?

Don't really know, it could be as ancient as the Beaker period or as recent as the middle ages since lots of English (and generally NW Europeans, such as Flemish during the siege of Lisbon) moved here to fight and decided to stay. There's also the fact that foreign Christians, for example Burgundians, were used to populate regions of Portugal. Whether or not they were significant, I do not know.

Maybe all these effects were relatively minor, but added up to the slight relation we see today.

Vaucano
10-12-2018, 11:27 PM
So, now that 23nadme has additional geographic regions and dots, did any of you get any unexpected results?

5 em Portugal 1 em Espanha.
:)

Nnobrega
10-17-2018, 05:31 PM
I'm surprised that Portuguese are 50% Northern European. I have that off of K13 North Atlantic and Baltic, it adds up to 50% and in Spain it ranges from 47-52% not including basques, 58%. Its higher than any other region of Southern Europe

Nnobrega
10-17-2018, 05:32 PM
I'm surprised that Portuguese are 50% Northern European. I have that off of K13 North Atlantic and Baltic, it adds up to 50% and in Spain it ranges from 47-52% not including basques, 58%. Even at 47% its higher than any other region of Southern Europe

Ruderico
10-17-2018, 05:58 PM
50% on this calculator (K13), but it really doesn't mean much, if you check the values on K15 the Portuguese average has less (Atlantic+NorthSea+Baltic+EastEuro) than all Spanish regions except Andalucia, and I guess Canarias which I didn't check


EDIT: I checked Davidski's K13 population average spreadsheet, Portuguese are close to the lowest Spanish when it comes to north Euro-related ancestry, and still a bit far from the highest, which makes sense because the pattern is the same in K15 (and all other calculators, really)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Oz6P5-SVEJciPX1TciGe-zoqA5JtOGIMG7nh-rCOj0c/edit#gid=804264822

Bruma
10-17-2018, 07:40 PM
Too bad they don't have the Canary Islands as a population on K13

Bruma
10-17-2018, 07:46 PM
Too bad they don't have the Canary Islands as a population on K13

Bruma
10-17-2018, 07:54 PM
On 23&me I have 5 dots in Portugal and 3 in Spain

Ruderico
10-18-2018, 10:16 AM
On 23&me I have 5 dots in Portugal and 3 in Spain

3 is quite a lot, like most people here I also have just 1. Maybe you have actual Spanish (Canarian?) ancestry

RCO
10-18-2018, 11:56 AM
I have 5 dots in Portugal and zero in Spain.

Bruma
10-18-2018, 09:57 PM
3 is quite a lot, like most people here I also have just 1. Maybe you have actual Spanish (Canarian?) ancestry

It's possible I had a grandfather from Rabo de Peixe and people from Rabo de Peixe are exotic in terms of phenotypes it's not rare to find types that look like Pedro Rodriguez of Chelsea FC there most of my family is from the parishes of Sao Roque , Livramento, Faja de Cima, Vila Franco do Campo and a Grandfather from Rabo de Peixe.


I have a kit from there that will take your breath away i'll post it tonight.


The most notable Canarian family to the Azores was the Bettencourt family of Gran Canaria who are from French Belgium in the Canary Islands they are known as "Betancur"

From researching Azorean kits the vast majority of the islands are Portuguese through and through only on Sao Miguel you see some diversity and strange oracles.

Nnobrega
10-19-2018, 11:49 PM
50% on this calculator (K13), but it really doesn't mean much, if you check the values on K15 the Portuguese average has less (Atlantic+NorthSea+Baltic+EastEuro) than all Spanish regions except Andalucia, and I guess Canarias which I didn't check


EDIT: I checked Davidski's K13 population average spreadsheet, Portuguese are close to the lowest Spanish when it comes to north Euro-related ancestry, and still a bit far from the highest, which makes sense because the pattern is the same in K15 (and all other calculators, really)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Oz6P5-SVEJciPX1TciGe-zoqA5JtOGIMG7nh-rCOj0c/edit#gid=804264822

Your missing Extremadura which is less than 50%
Also what do you mean 50% doesn't mean much? Its linear compared to the rest of Europe, for example English is like 75%

Ruderico
10-20-2018, 08:01 AM
What's your point?

Basques have more than us yet they are less related to the English than we are

AzureKite
11-20-2018, 08:50 AM
Madeira and Canaries are like the Iberian equivalent of some white southerners in the US in terms of having absorbed SSA ancestry.

How much African do Madeirans have? My roots go to the Madeira Islands and I have 0.7%North African, i wonder if my Portuguese relatives originated from the Algarve region in Southern Portugal or the Minho region in Northern Portugal? i would like to know what part of the mainland my family or the ancestors of all Madeirans came from?

AzureKite
11-20-2018, 08:51 AM
3 is quite a lot, like most people here I also have just 1. Maybe you have actual Spanish (Canarian?) ancestry

I had one dot for Portugal.

Nnobrega
01-14-2019, 08:35 PM
What's your point?

Basques have more than us yet they are less related to the English than we are

My point is the closest reference Portuguese have is every region in Spain, North Italy/France, South Dutch, German, Central Italy and English. This is surely due to shared Celtic ancestry which I found to be the most surprising fact about the Portuguese, that they have stronger ties to North West Europe than Southern Europe. I thought Southern Italy or Greece would show up as a close reference population but its not even in the top 25. So no, Atlantic and Baltic on these tests "does not mean anything", it most certainly means something and its relative to the greater Atlantic populations of Europe, which Portugal and Spain are a part of

Ruderico
01-14-2019, 09:14 PM
My point is the closest reference Portuguese have is every region in Spain, North Italy/France, South Dutch, German, Central Italy and English. This is surely due to shared Celtic ancestry which I found to be the most surprising fact about the Portuguese, that they have stronger ties to North West Europe than Southern Europe. I thought Southern Italy or Greece would show up as a close reference population but its not even in the top 25. So no, Atlantic and Baltic on these tests "does not mean anything", it most certainly means something and its relative to the greater Atlantic populations of Europe, which Portugal and Spain are a part of

You are mistaking Celts with the common WHG+EEF+Steppe (bell beaker) ancestry that all of western Europe has since before Celts were a thing, which is why Basques also score high Atlantic in K13 and K15 (the highest in K15, actually, despite having little to no actual Celtic ancestry)

Vaucano
05-01-2019, 07:51 PM
hey!
Has anyone seen the new updates on regions? I'm from algarve (south portugal) like all my grandfathers, but the first region that appears is azores:biggrin1::bounce:

30239

Ruderico
05-02-2019, 08:27 AM
hey!
Has anyone seen the new updates on regions? I'm from algarve (south portugal) like all my grandfathers, but the first region that appears is azores:biggrin1::bounce:

30239

Boas!

Yes, it happens to everyone because of Portuguese Americans who skew the results. ~75% of my ancestry is from Viseu district yet it doesn't even show in the list, with some of it being from the borders with Guarda and Bragança, neither show aswell. The rest is form Porto district and it's listed as 7th.

Have you uploaded your results to GEDmatch? I'm curious to see how someone from the far south scores, particularly in K13 and K15, don't think I've ever seen one of you yet

Shadogowah
05-02-2019, 11:27 AM
Boas!

Yes, it happens to everyone because of Portuguese Americans who skew the results. ~75% of my ancestry is from Viseu district yet it doesn't even show in the list, with some of it being from the borders with Guarda and Bragança, neither show aswell. The rest is form Porto district and it's listed as 7th.

Have you uploaded your results to GEDmatch? I'm curious to see how someone from the far south scores, particularly in K13 and K15, don't think I've ever seen one of you yet

It is not exclusive of autosomal tests. It also occurs with the Y tests. More than half of my closest matches seem to be Americans with Portuguese roots in the Azores. Most likely because of a common ancestor in Asturias around the VI or VII century.

There is indeed an over-representation.

BTW, I am not so sure how useful it is to include territories colonized 500 years ago as a reference for ancestral populations. It is like adding regions of Argentina or states in USA. No idea what can be assumed as "specific" genetic characteristics of Azoreans. As far as I have read, the settlers came from different places of Portugal, Spain and there were also Flemish and a few more additions to the mix.

RCO
05-02-2019, 01:13 PM
The problem is to find the original or stable ancestral population because everything is changing. Heraclitus - “The Only Thing That Is Constant Is Change -”. We can only test real individuals in certain territories and times. Al-Andalus was conquered and the population changed, what about the impact of the Roman conquest, the "Barbarian" - Suebi, Vandal, Alan in NW Iberia and the Visigoths in the other part ? We can find different types of Iberian mixtures, some regional and historical but they have specific circumstances just like the Y-DNA and mtDNA distribution. I think we have a modern Portuguese mixture only in the last 1000 years of war, conquests and expansions and that's still changing everywhere.

Ruderico
05-02-2019, 01:17 PM
I think you place too much focus on uniparental markers. They are good to check ancient movements, but for a modelling point of view it's not as useful as autossomal, because uniparental proportions can change for a myriad of reasons. Some markers are so old and sparce that cannot be assigned to any group in particular (eg. mine)

Piquerobi
05-02-2019, 01:39 PM
Heraclitus - “The Only Thing That Is Constant Is Change -”.

Precisely, when speaking of an ethnic group one should refer not only to its location but also the time period. Ethnic groups are constantly changing. Even if a particular group were cut off from interacting with other ethnicities, it'd turn into something else eventually, given how mutations take place, and at a rather fast pace. We live in a dynamic world. As Karl Marx put it, "All That Is Solid Melts into Air".

RCO
05-02-2019, 01:42 PM
Just like in any ethnicity or ethno-historical group we can find the major Y-DNA and mtDNA clusters. Both my Y-DNA and mtDNA are extremely associated with the Portuguese expansion and I have 80% of Portuguese Colonial Ancestry easily detectable and other different European (Eastern German g-g father, Northern Italian, British) and minor Amerindian (I do love that) and African (I am also proud) components also easily recognizable, so "Portugal" is not only an Empire, a language but a genetic reality empirically testable :amen:

Rafe
05-06-2019, 06:11 PM
The average result among my 4-gp Portuguese matches (n = ~35):

European 98.76470588

Spanish/Portuguese 78.17352941

Italian 3.938235294

French/German 2.955882353

British/Irish 1.426470588

Sardinian 0.3272727273

Scandinavian 0.09117647059

Ashkenazi 0.05588235294

Greek & Balkan 0.01470588235

Eastern European 0.01176470588

Broadly South Euro 6.608823529

Broadly North Euro 3.214705882

Broadly Euro 1.679411765

SSA 0.5529411765

Senegambian & Guinean 0.1352941176

S East African 0.05588235294

Nigerian 0.05294117647

Congolese 0.04411764706

Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.03823529412

Sudanese 0.002941176471

Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 0.008823529412

Broadly West African 0.07647058824

Broadly NE African 0.02647058824

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.1235294118

EA and NA 0.09411764706

NA 0.02647058824

Broadly Chinese & Southeast Asian 0.01176470588

Broadly N Asian and NA 0.01176470588

Broadly EA and NA 0.02941176471

MENA 0.2294117647

konian lusitanum
09-10-2019, 09:23 AM
como e que pode todos estes testes dar percentage italiana ? eu nao tenho nada de italiano em todos os testes que fiz , mas vejo que 23 &me da sempre italiano nos testes penso que isso nao e acurate

Ruderico
09-10-2019, 10:06 AM
Há ADN em comum com Itália, nem que seja desde o período Romano, nós não somos assim tão diferentes ou distantes quanto isso
https://i.postimg.cc/5JZh6S78/g25italy.png

Endovelicus
09-10-2019, 01:12 PM
como e que pode todos estes testes dar percentage italiana ? eu nao tenho nada de italiano em todos os testes que fiz , mas vejo que 23 &me da sempre italiano nos testes penso que isso nao e acurate

Que testes fizeste? Se não houver nada contra, gostaria que partilhasses os resultados dos mesmos aqui com a comunidade.

konian lusitanum
09-11-2019, 08:19 AM
me desculpem so descobri anthrogenia recentmente ainda nao sei bem como isto funciona mas sim nao tenho nenhum problema em por por escrito os testes que fiz , primeito teste foi feito no MY HERITAGE --- 72.8 %IBERIAN------19.3% NORTHWESTERN EUROPE----7.9 NORTH AFRICAN . SEGUNDO TESTE FAMILY TREE DNA-----IBERIAN61%----BRITISH ISLES----18% EAST EUROPE 9% SOUTHEAST EUROPE8% TRACE RESULTS EAST MIDDLE EAST 2% NORTH AFRICA1% WEST MIDDLE EAST2% TERCEIRO TESTE ANCESTRY DNA ----PORTUGAL60%----SPAIN28%---IRELAND AND SCOTLAND7%----ENGLAND , WALES AND NORTHERN EUROPE 3% ----FRANCE 2% ESTOU ESPERANDO FAZER OUTRO TESTE NO 23 AND ME BREVEMENTE PRA COMPLETAR MINHA INVESTIGACAO

Ruderico
09-11-2019, 08:26 AM
Urgh, MyHeritage, foste logo escolher o mais esquisito :)
A melhor forma de comparar não é através de testes diferentes, mas a partir de algo standardizado que compare tudo por igual - como o Global25, ou os PCAs do Gedmatch. Sinceramente, a menos que se ande à procura de matches para reconstruir a genealogia, um teste basta.

konian lusitanum
09-12-2019, 07:35 AM
ola , pelo seus dados posso afirmar que voce pertence a minha branche de povo tambem sou j1a 257 muito curioso mesmo