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J Man
06-12-2013, 11:10 PM
A little while back two of my father's 1st cousins took the Family Finder test at Family Tree DNA. These two cousins are from the Finnish side of my family and are the children of my grandmother's brother. I am very happy that they tested as it is helping to sort out a question I had wondered about for a long time about my grandmother. Basically I wondered if she was my great grandfather's (her father) biological child. I wondered this because she has brown/hazel eyes and both of her parents apparently had blue eyes. I have no doubt that she was my great grandmother's biological child as because besides their eye colours they looked very similar. Her mother had blue eyes and her father's were listed as being ''light gray'' on his naturalization record. Basically light gray would be the same as blue genetically I would say. So since my grandmother ended up having brown/hazel eyes and both of her parents had light eyes (light gray and blue) made me wonder if her supposed father was actually her true biological father or not. Now since these cousins tested who are both children of my grandmother's brother it has helped to shed light and help to see if my grandmother was actually her father's true biological child or not. Here are the cousins Family Finder results with my father, uncle (father's brother) and myself.

Cousin John:

Shares with my Father:

879.91 Shared cM
103.75 Longest Block


Shares With My Uncle (Father's Brother):

939.24 Shared cM
109.34 Longest Block


Shares With Me:

362.64 Shared cM
61.68 Longest Block



Cousin Sharon:

Shares With Father:

763.98 Shared cM
71.17 Longest Block


Shares With Uncle (Father's Brother):

775.82 Shared cM
62.01 Longest Block


Shares With Me:

313.45 Shared cM
53.61 Longest Block



So based on these results does it look like my grandmother was indeed my great grand father's biological child or not?

Baltimore1937
06-13-2013, 02:41 AM
I get dizzy when I look at all my Family Finder matches (mostly low level). One surname (Wells) keeps popping up, but I haven't a clue where it comes from or how it connects to my tree. It must be downstream from my maternal North Carolina roots, probably connected to some cousin or other.

R. Walker
06-13-2013, 03:12 AM
You can't use eye color to determine parentage. My father had hazel eyes, and my mother had blue eyes, and all three of us kids have brown eyes. I have brown eyes, and my children's father has blue eyes. We have one blue eyed and two brown eyed kids.

AJL
06-13-2013, 03:54 AM
You can't use eye color to determine parentage. My father had hazel eyes, and my mother had blue eyes, and all three of us kids have brown eyes. I have brown eyes, and my children's father has blue eyes. We have one blue eyed and two brown eyed kids.

This is correct. Humata is our resident expert on eye colour, but I do know enough to say that there are multiple alleles that govern it. That means you can have two blue-eyed parents with a brown-eyed child, for example.

J Man
06-13-2013, 04:15 AM
Okay thank you for all of the replies but what about my original question? Based on the Family Finder results does it look like my grandmother was my great grandfather's true biological child?

Baltimore1937
06-13-2013, 04:52 AM
Hey there J Man,

Sorry, I don't have a clue to your question. But didn't you say, way back when, that you had a maternal match or two from Sweden? I keep bumping into possible Swedish female ancestress origins in Sweden. Nothing firm, but just the same, an occasional Swedish origin, male or female, pops up in Ancestry entries from that era. I'm talking around 800 to 1,000 AD, or so. And U5b2c2 is close to U5b2b2.

J Man
06-13-2013, 02:36 PM
Hey there J Man,

Sorry, I don't have a clue to your question. But didn't you say, way back when, that you had a maternal match or two from Sweden? I keep bumping into possible Swedish female ancestress origins in Sweden. Nothing firm, but just the same, an occasional Swedish origin, male or female, pops up in Ancestry entries from that era. I'm talking around 800 to 1,000 AD, or so. And U5b2c2 is close to U5b2b2.

I am not sure really. My direct maternal line comes from Ireland. The side of my family that I am asking about in this thread is from my paternal grandmother.

Baltimore1937
06-13-2013, 06:12 PM
I am not sure really. My direct maternal line comes from Ireland. The side of my family that I am asking about in this thread is from my paternal grandmother.

Somewhere online showed that one or two U5b2c2 samples popped up in Sweden. We (U5b2c2 & U5b2b2) are closely enough related that it's no surprise we were in the same neighborhood (NW Europe).

AJL
06-14-2013, 12:47 AM
To your original question -- yes, that's well in line with the stats Tim Janzen has on first cousins.

J Man
06-14-2013, 03:44 AM
To your original question -- yes, that's well in line with the stats Tim Janzen has on first cousins.

Thanks AJL that helps a lot.

I just found this about IBD segments shared between cousins on ISOGG.

1st cousins: 548-1034 cMs
1st cousins once removed: 248-638 cMs

http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Identical_By_Descent_segment

So it looks like our cousins John and Sharon are right in the correct range for what 1st cousins should share with my father and uncle. They are also in range with me but at the lower end.

What do you think?

AJL
06-14-2013, 04:40 AM
So it looks like our cousins John and Sharon are right in the correct range for what 1st cousins should share with my father and uncle. They are also in range with me but at the lower end.

What do you think?

You're most welcome -- it certainly fits with other cousin pairs I have seen. For example, by FTDNA standards:

first cousins: 744.72 cM total, 101.03 cM longest block
first cousins once removed: 486.16 total, 99.62 longest
first cousins once removed: 586.61 total, 85.08 longest
first cousins once removed: 350.15 total, 43.42 longest

J Man
06-14-2013, 01:56 PM
^Okay thanks my friend! :)

AJL
06-14-2013, 03:05 PM
You're most welcome, cousin! :)

J Man
06-14-2013, 06:41 PM
Okay one thing I just checked does seem a bit off or strange though. 1st cousins once removed according to ISOGG are supposed to share anywhere between 12-23 segments together. I noticed that my 1st cousin once removed Sharon and I only share 11 segments together. Is that not a bit low?

AJL
06-14-2013, 07:13 PM
Just slightly on the low end -- is your overall centimorgan count similar to what's predicted?

J Man
06-14-2013, 07:16 PM
Just slightly on the low end -- is your overall centimorgan count similar to what's predicted?

Here is my overall cM count with her and largest segment.

313.45 Shared cM
53.61 Longest Block

AJL
06-14-2013, 08:23 PM
It's on the short end of the curve, but still seems within normal range.

J Man
06-14-2013, 08:32 PM
On the other hand her brother John and I share this.


362.64 Shared cM
61.68 Longest Block
16 segments