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View Full Version : why do some African Americans have east African heritage?



jaderose22
03-30-2017, 07:47 PM
I was just wondering. You see some people like Ben Carson who have east African heritage I'm just wondering how that works with slavery. Did east African immigrate to america outside of slavery? Specifically Kenyan people? I'm curious because I generally get more centralized results for my tribal results. Specifically with tribes in kenya and Ethiopia sometimes and southeast Africa sometimes. I'm wondering how they got to america? What about creoles and Cajuns? Would immigration in those areas be a little different perhaps?

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
03-30-2017, 08:00 PM
I was just wondering. You see some people like Ben Carson who have east African heritage I'm just wondering how that works with slavery. Did east African immigrate to america outside of slavery? Specifically Kenyan people? I'm curious because I generally get more centralized results for my tribal results. Specifically with tribes in kenya and Ethiopia sometimes and southeast Africa sometimes. I'm wondering how they got to america? What about creoles and Cajuns? Would immigration in those areas be a little different perhaps?

During the Indian Ocean slave trade many tribes from the Indian Ocean archipelago were enslaved by the Swahili, Arabs, Portuguese and Persians mostly.

Most of these slaves came from Zanzibar, Mombasa, Madagascar, Lamu and even as far down as Mozambique.

These tribes which were enslaved were Mijikenda (bantu coastal people).

When the slaves reached the slave markets in Oman for example they were then brought over to the new world by the British and Portuguese.

jaderose22
03-30-2017, 09:39 PM
During the Indian Ocean slave trade many tribes from the Indian Ocean archipelago were enslaved by the Swahili, Arabs, Portuguese and Persians mostly.

Most of these slaves came from Zanzibar, Mombasa, Madagascar, Lamu and even as far down as Mozambique.

These tribes which were enslaved were Mijikenda (bantu coastal people).

When the slaves reached the slave markets in Oman for example they were then brought over to the new world by the British and Portuguese.

Got it


http://www.theroot.com/were-my-enslaved-ancestors-originally-from-ethiopia-1790876198

My family is from new Orleans actually on both sides. My dad very recently and he has a lot more east African heritage. I think a lot of black Americans have new Orleans or Charleston ties....

jaderose22
03-30-2017, 09:45 PM
In Zanzibar the people are mostly Swahili Swahili are actually Bantu. And in mozambique most people are Bantu. South eastern Bantu. So both would explain. I wonder where Ben Carson's family is from

Real_Amharas
04-01-2017, 12:22 AM
I was just wondering. You see some people like Ben Carson who have east African heritage I'm just wondering how that works with slavery. Did east African immigrate to america outside of slavery? Specifically Kenyan people? I'm curious because I generally get more centralized results for my tribal results. Specifically with tribes in kenya and Ethiopia sometimes and southeast Africa sometimes. I'm wondering how they got to america? What about creoles and Cajuns? Would immigration in those areas be a little different perhaps?

There are no Tribes in Ethiopia They are called ethnic groups...

jaderose22
04-01-2017, 02:19 AM
There are no Tribes in Ethiopia They are called ethnic groups...

to me a tribe is just a bunch of groups within an ethnic group. Ethnically Ethiopian Oromos jews amharas and tigrays are ethnically the same. But belong to diffetrent tribes. I get all of these people in my ethiohelix results........ One or the other they all serve the same purpose.

Real_Amharas
04-01-2017, 04:46 AM
to me a tribe is just a bunch of groups within an ethnic group. Ethnically Ethiopian Oromos jews amharas and tigrays are ethnically the same. But belong to diffetrent tribes. I get all of these people in my ethiohelix results........ One or the other they all serve the same purpose.

I have to disagree with you there. There is a hug different between Tribe/clan and Ethnicity.

Tribe
definition: a social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader.

Ethnicity is someone who share the same culture, language value etc... Oromo, Ethiopian Jews, Amharas, Tigrays are not the same ethnicity especially Oromos because they are very heterogeneous population some are closer to somali some are closer to Amhara/Tigray-Agaw some are closer to Kenyas.. So it doesn't make sense to call those ethnic group as being the same as Amhara, Agaw, and Tigray...

Okey since you consider Oromos, Amharas, Jews, and Tigrays as the same ethnicity but what about Nilotic ethnic group like Gambela are they the same as them they are ethiopians they live in ethiopia so what makes them different what about other Afroasiatic speaking people like Omotic who live in Ethiopia what make them different from other Cushitics they speak Afroasiatic language just like Cushitics...

jaderose22
04-02-2017, 12:27 AM
I have to disagree with you there. There is a hug different between Tribe/clan and Ethnicity.

Tribe
definition: a social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader.

Ethnicity is someone who share the same culture, language value etc... Oromo, Ethiopian Jews, Amharas, Tigrays are not the same ethnicity especially Oromos because they are very heterogeneous population some are closer to somali some are closer to Amhara/Tigray-Agaw some are closer to Kenyas.. So it doesn't make sense to call those ethnic group as being the same as Amhara, Agaw, and Tigray...

Okey since you consider Oromos, Amharas, Jews, and Tigrays as the same ethnicity but what about Nilotic ethnic group like Gambela are they the same as them they are ethiopians they live in ethiopia so what makes them different what about other Afroasiatic speaking people like Omotic who live in Ethiopia what make them different from other Cushitics they speak Afroasiatic language just like Cushitics...


Go ask ancestrydna and 23andme its all the same ethnicity. Well considering I have the same distance from all of you the tigray the oromo and the Amhara and jews... And on the DNA companies you belong to the same ethnic groups. The gambella I'm not sure ive never seen their results. Are they are combination of east African Bantu and Eurasian middle eastern heritage? If they are then yes they are genetically the same ethnicity as you. But I have not seen the results of someone who was gambella.

jaderose22
04-02-2017, 12:31 AM
BTW there's no such thing as gambella people. That's a region. Do your research. And genetically you're the as Kenyans only mixed basically at least that's what genetic studies show.

Real_Amharas
04-02-2017, 01:55 AM
Go ask ancestrydna and 23andme its all the same ethnicity. Well considering I have the same distance from all of you the tigray the oromo and the Amhara and jews... And on the DNA companies you belong to the same ethnic groups. The gambella I'm not sure ive never seen their results. Are they are combination of east African Bantu and Eurasian middle eastern heritage? If they are then yes they are genetically the same ethnicity as you. But I have not seen the results of someone who was gambella.

there are no Bantus is Ethiopia there are Nilotics though... When i said Gambella i was referring to an Ethnic called Anuak they live in southwestern Ethiopia but genetically they are closer to south sudanses than to mainstream Ethiopians.

jaderose22
04-02-2017, 03:38 AM
Again there are no Bantus is Ethiopia there are Nilotics though... When i said Gambella i was referring to an Ethnic called Anuak they live in southwestern Ethiopia but genetically they are closer to south sudanses than to mainstream Ethiopians.

No there is no Sudanese or cushite or ethiopian or Kenyan result on 23andme or ancestrydna. The Amhara are eastern Bantu and middle eastern and so are the tigray and oromos and Jews. You all have similar mixtures and percentages etc. Therefore you're the same ethnic mix. And ethnic background. Therefore they are different tribes but the same ethnicity. This is why pro.o slaves were treated very different from fully east African slaves.

Real_Amharas
04-02-2017, 05:51 AM
No there is no Sudanese or cushite or ethiopian or Kenyan result on 23andme or ancestrydna. The Amhara are eastern Bantu and middle eastern and so are the tigray and oromos and Jews. You all have similar mixtures and percentages etc. Therefore you're the same ethnic mix. And ethnic background. Therefore they are different tribes but the same ethnicity. This is why pro.o slaves were treated very different from fully east African slaves.

For all i know "Ethiopians" (Amharas, Tigray, Jews) lack Bantu admixture and haplogroup and the near eastern dna is very old like 30,000 (if i'm not mistaken) year old it spread into northeast africa during neolithic time and the admixture range from 40% to 50% sometimes there are some outliers who get 60%... I'm gonna leave it at that because this discussion is off-topic.

jaderose22
04-02-2017, 06:30 AM
For all i know "Ethiopians" (Amharas, Tigray, Jews) lack Bantu admixture and haplogroup and the near eastern dna is very old like 30,000 (if i'm not mistaken) year old it spread into northeast africa during neolithic time and the admixture range from 40% to 50% sometimes there are some outliers who get 60%... I'm gonna leave it at that because this discussion is off-topic.
Thats fummy as the African that most Ethiopians are mixed with is east African which is genetically eastern Bantu I'd say its more north east bantu. But the DNA is what it is. Everyone in the eastern portions have east African DNA which east African DNA on 23andme DNA.land and ancestrydna are all eastern bantu populations basically that's why you're grouped together on these tests.

Real_Amharas
04-02-2017, 06:36 AM
Thats fummy as the African that most Ethiopians are mixed with is east African which is genetically eastern Bantu I'd say its more north east bantu. But the DNA is what it is. Everyone in the eastern portions have east African DNA which east African DNA on 23andme DNA.land and ancestrydna are all eastern bantu populations basically that's why you're grouped together on these tests.

They are nilote not Bantus at all.

jaderose22
04-02-2017, 12:51 PM
They are nilote not Bantus at all.

That's the same thing ethnically... Genetically you're included as the same east African people.

Real_Amharas
04-02-2017, 04:07 PM
That's the same thing ethnically... Genetically you're included as the same east African people.

Nilotic have their own cluster and they are linguistically different from Bantus... Btw Bantu and Nilotic are not ethnicitys it's a language family or a group of people who are genetically similar.

jaderose22
04-02-2017, 04:11 PM
Nilotic have their own cluster and they are linguistically different from Bantus... Btw Bantu and Nilotic are not ethnicitys it's a language family or a group of people who are genetically similar.

Yeah a language doesn't define your ethnicity. I speak English and French that doesn't define my ethnicity and you obviously speak English as you are typing to me in English.that doesn't define you're ethnic make up genetics do. Nilotic people are put into the east African category on both ancestrydna and 23andme. That's just how it is. They're genetically the same. Its not a big deal either.

JFWinstone
04-02-2017, 06:02 PM
I would be cautious to come to the conclusion that just because 23andme and ancestrydna both lump them into one big East African category that they are genetically the same there has been a lot of criticism of both companies for their lack of samples for African populations. Even within Ethiopia itself there seems to be a big difference between the different ethnic groups. I thought the 44 world clusters admixture for the African populations page 24-25 on this document was very interesting - http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-2014-06-03.pdf. I know it's a few years old but it shows some of the differences.

jaderose22
04-02-2017, 07:41 PM
I would be cautious to come to the conclusion that just because 23andme and ancestrydna both lump them into one big East African category that they are genetically the same there has been a lot of criticism of both companies for their lack of samples for African populations. Even within Ethiopia itself there seems to be a big difference between the different ethnic groups. I thought the 44 world clusters admixture for the African populations page 24-25 on this document was very interesting - http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-2014-06-03.pdf. I know it's a few years old but it shows some of the differences.

Ancestrydna has 9 African results just as many results as Europe. So I don't feel its unfair. West Africans aren't lumped together because they have distinct differences. East Africans are because theirnafrican is all in common with each others in the ethnic sense but tribally yes they are different.

Aceharlock
04-03-2017, 06:16 PM
if i recall correctly east africans were brought over in certain numbers

Grossvater
04-04-2017, 10:20 PM
After running my son-in-law's DNA test results through the Ethiohelix calculator on GEDMATCH, I come up with the following results:

Nilo-Saharan 3.84
North-Africa 11.58
Mbuti-Pygmy -
Eastern-Bantu 15.40
Khoi-San 4.49
West-Africa 31.64
Hadza 0.89
Biaka-Pygmy 4.97
French 27.19

I have tried for years going through multiple sets of pictures trying to determine what African ethnicity he resembles but I always come up stumped. Of course, he is slightly over a quarter European in ancestry so I suppose those genes may skew everything else. Being nearly 12% North African, which I assume is Berber, may also contribute to this. This has always perplexed me. Is this an indication that his African ancestors may have been from a part of West Africa where there was significant Moroccan slave trading? He comes from a family with possible ties to one of the classic Melungeon families (Collins). Is this an indicator that perhaps his North African ancestry came (as the highly disputed theory states) from captured Ottoman galley slaves brought to America in the early days of English settlement. His family were later in all the right places.

He bears no Khoi-san phenotypical traits even though he carries some genes from those people. He must have some slave ancestors brought over from Angola or Namibia perhaps?

He is also nearly 15% Eastern Bantu. Perhaps some of his ancestors left Africa from Zanzibar or Mombasa?

He is a rather short man...about 5' 7"...perhaps his pygmy genes influenced his height?

Does any of this rampant speculation seem plausible or does it come from the fevered imagination of a white man who doesn't have a clue what he's blathering on about?

I have traced several of his lines to slaves freed in 1865 who had roots in Alabama back to Georgia. Others lived in North Carolina. Several of his mother's lines were tri-racial people from Clay County, Kentucky and Harnett County, North Carolina. His grandfather was an enrolled member of the Coharie Indian Tribe.

Incidentally, here is his MDLP-K11 calculator results:

African 63.14
Amerindian 2.29
ASI 0.17
Basal 2.43
Iran-Mesolithic -
Neolithic 12.13
Oceanic -
EHG 8.11
SEA 0.21
Siberian -
WHG 11.52

He consistently shows minor amounts of East Asian ancestry. I have always assumed it was really Native American. I suppose it could be but wouldn't be crazy if it was from a Chinese sailor from Zheng He's fleet that explored East Africa in the 1400s? Maybe a century or two later, one of his descendants was captured and enslaved and ended up in America?

Kurumim
04-06-2017, 12:09 AM
perhaps, black people from Mozambique?

https://godshotspot.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/atlantic-slave-trade-02.jpg?w=660

there werent many from there, but.. who knows

Ikenna
06-04-2017, 06:23 PM
Imagine my surprise my sister, daughter and I are matching 100% Ugandans on our X-chromosome. Another person we match who is from Guyana we match on the X and autosomal. They match the Ugandans also. Some of the people who match them on the X are Latino and are from the Dominican Republic. Definitely surprising. The Ugandans are Grandmother, daughter, and grand-daughter.

Angoliga
06-06-2017, 03:52 AM
Imagine my surprise my sister, daughter and I are matching 100% Ugandans on our X-chromosome. Another person we match who is from Guyana we match on the X and autosomal. They match the Ugandans also. Some of the people who match them on the X are Latino and are from the Dominican Republic. Definitely surprising. The Ugandans are Grandmother, daughter, and grand-daughter.

Howdy :wave:

Thank you for sharing, I've come across the same surprise in the reverse :)

It's interesting that this paper (https://dspace.nwu.ac.za/bitstream/handle/10394/4221/isabirye_dan.pdf?sequence=1)on Ugandan mtDNA specifically mentions samples from the Dominican Republic clustering with Ugandans:


"The clustering of sequences of the Baganda, Lugbara and Acholi with sequences of individuals from Dominican Republic and the Island of Hispaniola, demonstrated that there was a possibility of slave trade involving Ugandans being shipped into America by some means. Since there is no historical account of slave trade directly from Uganda to America and since it was the Arabs, Afro-Arabs and Egyptians who penetrated the interior of Uganda to deal in slavery (Ssekamwa, 1994; Were and Wilson, 1984), it is probable that the Arabs, Afro-Arabs or Egyptians sold some of the slaves to America. Alternatively, it could be that there was some undetectable gene flow from Uganda to certain countries in Africa and thereafter to America thus contributing to the transatlantic slave trade. Concrete evidence for this is however unavailable."(Isabirye, 2010)

Both of my parents are native Ugandans from the West-Nile region; my father is an Aringa and my mother's a Kakwa (*upper-left corner on the map below):
http://i.imgur.com/HFL7zKm.png

I've found over 150 African-American and Latin-American GEDmatches related to immediate family - of those, about a dozen or more are autosomal matches over 8cM with a few >8cM X-chromosome matches (I haven't verified the background of all of these +8cM X-chr matches but there's a mixture of English and Spanish surnames). Since I tested on 23andme 2 years ago, my only match has been an estimated distant cousin of Cuban decent.

One of my family's cluster of highest autosomal GEDmatches (+10cM) are from a family rooted in Georgia that migrated to Alabama and then spread across other southern states and beyond. I recently found a half Somali/Middle Eastern match that overlaps on the same segment as this family, I believe we might all be related through the East-African slave trade - I made a thread on the topic, discussing the viability of this theory. Other members have also shared their own experiences along with some critique on the whole idea -- feel free to share yours: Echoes of the East-Africa Slave Trade (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?6465-Echoes-of-the-East-African-Slave-Trade-Distant-Diasporic-Matches-IBS-or-IBD)



*ps I've PM'd you as well

curiouscat3
05-28-2020, 10:58 PM
Brazil was the only country to receive relevant amount of east africans in the translatlantic enslaved trade