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DillonResearcher
04-06-2017, 08:47 PM
I was having a look at the distribution of U152 in Ireland and with the exception of a few outliers U152 seems to be concentrated in the extreme North and South of Ireland.
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U152 is fairly unusual in Ireland (I think Busby estimated it to be around 2%) I have seen some people say online that U152 in Ireland can to an extent be attributed to Anglo-Normans but aside from the Barrys I don't know if there have been any confirmed U152+ Anglo-Normans in Ireland?

I'd be interested to know what people on here think might explain this pattern of U152 distribution in Ireland and any opinions on how U152 got there?

MitchellSince1893
04-06-2017, 09:03 PM
I was having a look at the distribution of U152 in Ireland and with the exception of a few outliers U152 seems to be concentrated in the extreme North and South of Ireland.
15052

U152 is fairly unusual in Ireland (I think Busby estimated it to be around 2%) I have seen some people say online that U152 in Ireland can to an extent be attributed to Anglo-Normans but aside from the Barrys I don't know if there have been any confirmed U152+ Anglo-Normans in Ireland?

I'd be interested to know what people on here think might explain this pattern of U152 distribution in Ireland and any opinions on how U152 got there?

My first thought is the extreme North is going to have some Scottish and English border folks. The area South of the Antoine Wall and around and to to North of Hadrian's Wall appears to have above average U152 percentages in present day populations. I've wondered if Roman Auxilliaries from the Low Countries and Gaul might in part explain this. Regardless, if there is indeed a higher than normal U152 representation in Lowland Scotland and Northern England, it may help explain U152 in the North of Ireland.

As to the extreme south, this map comes to mind.
http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/troubledgeogs/chap2/cromwellian_ls.jpg and this one
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegalstrongs/mpplantr.gif

But honestly these are just "off the top of my head" thoughts and may be insignificant contributions.

DillonResearcher
04-06-2017, 09:19 PM
Thanks for those thoughts and the maps. I didn't know that the area between Hadrian's Wall and the Antonine Wall has a high level of U152 so that's certainly worth bearing in mind for the North Irish cluster.

I also just came across this map which is shows the extent of Norman control in 1300 which is useful to see alongside the ones that you posted.
15054

I read online that David Faux believed that U152 in Ireland came in through Vikings, Normans or other English invaders (as opposed to being found in "native" Irish) but I'd imagine that that view may well not be valid now with all the new people that have tested since then.

GoldenHind
04-06-2017, 09:53 PM
I read online that David Faux believed that U152 in Ireland came in through Vikings, Normans or other English invaders (as opposed to being found in "native" Irish) but I'd imagine that that view may well not be valid now with all the new people that have tested since then.

It wasn't valid then either.

jbarry6899
04-06-2017, 11:03 PM
The largest subgroup in the Barry YDNA project is U152>Z49>S8183 with a number of downstream SNPs unique to the family. While usually labeled Anglo-Norman, the Barry family probably originated in Flanders, where U152 has a fairly sizeable representation.

MitchellSince1893
04-07-2017, 02:03 AM
...I read online that David Faux believed that U152 in Ireland came in through Vikings, Normans or other English invaders (as opposed to being found in "native" Irish) but I'd imagine that that view may well not be valid now with all the new people that have tested since then.

Not to pile on Dr Faux, as he did the best with what he had to work with almost 10 years ago, but I believe one of his ideas was that the Angles were high in U152 and that the reason that U152 is low in Denmark now is because most of it left with the Angles; that is; very little stayed behind in the homeland.

I think the 2016 Danish dna study makes this theory less likely as the present day British are genetically closer to Danes than either Swedes or Norwegians.

Granted autosomal and y-dna aren't the same thing, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to expect some correlation between the two. e.g. U106 is common today in Denmark and England, so why wouldn't U152 be the same? This would apply to Angles, Jutes and Danish Vikings.

However Normans are another matter. There was ~150 years between the establishment of the Duchy and the Norman invasion of 1066. In that period the Gallo-Roman population of Normandy (which probably vastly outnumbered the Normans) would have mixed with the Normans and no doubt many of the locals would have been U152, and part of the group that settled in the Isles.

In the Busby Study of 2011,
North France (Nord-Pas-de-Calais): 17.6% was U152
Northwest France(Brittany?): 6.1% U152
North Central France: 14.3% U152

While not specifically identified, Normandy was probably in the 10-13% range for U152.

As jbarry6899 mentioned, some of the Norman invaders were actually from Flanders. In the Brabant study U152 was 16.25% of Flanders.

So it's reasonable to expect 1 in 8, to 1 in 10 "Normans" in the Isles to be U152.

MitchellSince1893
04-09-2017, 05:46 AM
Thanks for those thoughts and the maps. I didn't know that the area between Hadrian's Wall and the Antonine Wall has a high level of U152 so that's certainly worth bearing in mind for the North Irish cluster.


Just came across the map of Roman Sculpture finds in Britain. You can see the clear outline of the two walls indicating the presence of Roman forces (mostly from Belgica and Gaul) compared to the rest of England.

As these were sparsely populated areas, unlike southern England, I believe the opportunity for a foreign component to make a lasting genetic impact was greater.

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Present day U152 percentages for the tribal areas of the Batavian, Tungri, Menapii, Morini (all from Belgica) and Ligones (from Gaul) Roman Auxiliaries are all in mid teens to low twenties.

DillonResearcher
04-09-2017, 10:26 AM
As these were sparsely populated areas, unlike southern England, I believe the opportunity for a foreign component to make a lasting genetic impact was greater.

That sounds like quite a convincing argument and it certainly don't take long to travel across the sea between the west coast of Scotland/England and Ireland.

I was also just having a look at the U152 maps you put together here: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4399-British-Isles-DNA-Project-by-County-Mapped-for-U152 which are very interesting to see, particularly with how they correlate quite well to an extent to a map further down the thread showing Roman influence in Britain. It would certainly be interesting if we got some ancient DNA from Roman cemeteries in the UK! Edit: Then again, having looked into the later pages of that thread it doesn't seem quite so clear cut.

DillonResearcher
04-09-2017, 11:13 AM
I did try to do some analysis of the U152+ surnames in Ireland of testers who know to at least county level where their ancestor came from and it is of course rather tricky with multiple origins for most names (I mainly used MacLysaght's "Irish Families Book"). Only 19 people gave sufficient location information for their ancestor and so it is a very small sample but the only three people (I counted the Barry cluster as just one) with Norman surnames were all in Southern Ireland with no Norman names appearing in Northern Ireland. As I said, it's a very small sample but interesting nevertheless.

alan
04-09-2017, 12:18 PM
My first thought is the extreme North is going to have some Scottish and English border folks. The area South of the Antoine Wall and around and to to North of Hadrian's Wall appears to have above average U152 percentages in present day populations. I've wondered if Roman Auxilliaries from the Low Countries and Gaul might in part explain this. Regardless, if there is indeed a higher than normal U152 representation in Lowland Scotland and Northern England, it may help explain U152 in the North of Ireland.

As to the extreme south, this map comes to mind.
http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/troubledgeogs/chap2/cromwellian_ls.jpg and this one
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegalstrongs/mpplantr.gif

But honestly these are just "off the top of my head" thoughts and may be insignificant contributions.

That area of Scotland had a relatively strong and early Norman (a blanket term that didn't always mean Normandy) plantation of knights etc in the 12th/13th centuries as well as significant no of Angles before that. The sequence of Britons- Angles-Normans in Scottish terms is unique to the area between the walls but similar to parts of England.

DillonResearcher
04-09-2017, 03:46 PM
No one with Irish roots other than me has tested positive for L135 (the SNP above my terminal one) at FTDNA although on the Genographic database four have. Two only say Ireland as their paternal origin but the third said County Limerick and the fourth County Cork. Both counties are in the South of Ireland and Cork of course is where the southern cluster of U152 is centered on. So as a hazarded guess my Dillons might be connected to the southern U152 cluster although a piece of circumstantial evidence from my paper research suggests that they may be from the Mayo/Galway area in the mid-west of Ireland.

MitchellSince1893
04-09-2017, 04:03 PM
The question of the source(s) for U152 in the border region of England and Scotland is of personal interest to me as a descendant of a brother line of my paternal line is found in Westmorland, England. His surname Adamthwaite is a locational surname tied to the Adamthwaite Farm http://www.adamthwaitearchive.org.uk/adamthwaite-farm/4531776487.

The farm is known to exist in the early 1500s. The shared ancestor of my line and this line probably lived in the late 1200s. http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7479-New-branch-under-R-FGC12401-FGC12384&p=225500#post225500

This is the only clue I presently have on the nationality of my paternal line prior to 1893. As the earliest known Adamthwaite ancestor on the brother line (there are other Adamthwaite lines that aren't on this paternal line) was a farmer in the area in the mid 1700s, I'm assuming my paternal line in the 1200s and 1300s had a similar background.

Of course anything is possible during that period, but I've often read how English rural populations tend to stay put for generations.

Anyway that's my background for interest in this subject.

MitchellSince1893
04-09-2017, 04:56 PM
Northern Britain Roman sites and Adamthwaite locations for reference. One Fort was 7 miles from the Farm.

I'll quit hijacking your thread

15121

MitchellSince1893
04-11-2017, 11:18 PM
On page 188 of Ancestral Journey


...where R1b U152 appears in Britain it may it part reflect Hallstaat and La Tene movements...In the late centuries BC La Tene material spread across the northern half of Ireland from the northeast, probably from northern Britain. Jean Manco attributes most La Tene genetic signature in Ireland to R1bM222, but some of it may have also come in with U152.


The earliest Irish records mention British people (Cruithin or Cruithni in Gaelic) in northeastern Ireland. Could the La Tene style have arrived with them? Or do the people known as the Cruithin represent a later wave of British incomers in the early post Roman period, when there was renewed contact with between Ireland and north Britain?

So there are multiple possible sources for U152's arrival. My guess is that it probably arrived via multiple sources over various time periods.

lamahorse
04-14-2017, 05:11 PM
Hi there,

I'm one of the U152+ McCarthys that go back to Mohonagh, Skibbereen, West Cork.

We have 6 Y-111 matches that are Noonans/Newmans and we have one large branch of McCartys. We're estimated to have a common ancestor back to ~1550 AD. I don't think many have done the Big Y. There is also a 'Coombes' who is very close to us at at the Y-67 level but he's never responded to messages. He's closer to us Irish McCarthys than the American branch of McCartys.

As regards, our wider group. We are U152>BY3550 of which, we have one Norman sounding Ignatius Butler, a Scottish McNeill and a McAvity. There is a Nunan very close to us too on the Big Y but I don't think he's joined the U152 group on FTDNA.

We are very far removed from other U152 so I don't know if that means we are Normans or we arrived a lot earlier than that.

tsneely
09-02-2017, 10:38 PM
Disclaimer: This is my first post and I have just begun my education into genetic anthropology. I have been identified as a U152 / L2 and am awaiting results of my Big Y test to see if any additional downstream SNP markers come up. My surname is Irish and I believe my ancestor came to America from Ulster, N. Ireland around 1720. From what I have gleaned through the internet, the L2 Haplogroup is likely to have come from the vicinity of either Bavaria or Northern Italy. Is there any chance that this downstream testing will provide clues as to how and when my ancestors might have gotten to Ireland? Do any of you have any thoughts on this?

MitchellSince1893
09-03-2017, 02:31 AM
Disclaimer: This is my first post and I have just begun my education into genetic anthropology. I have been identified as a U152 / L2 and am awaiting results of my Big Y test to see if any additional downstream SNP markers come up. My surname is Irish and I believe my ancestor came to America from Ulster, N. Ireland around 1720. From what I have gleaned through the internet, the L2 Haplogroup is likely to have come from the vicinity of either Bavaria or Northern Italy. Is there any chance that this downstream testing will provide clues as to how and when my ancestors might have gotten to Ireland? Do any of you have any thoughts on this?

It may, but may be not immediately. Based on what I know, I would guess your ancestors arrived in Ulster from either Scotland or the border region of England...or possibly the Hiberno-Normans. They may have been in Britain since the Iron Age or Roman era...arriving with Hallstatt/La Tene Celts, the Belgae (less likely for a northern Briton), or Roman auxiliaries from the Low Countries e.g. Tungri or Batavians. Or it could have been more recent e.g. Angles, Normans, Huguenots, Dutch etc. At this point in time it's hard to say. But as more people test, we learn more about the U152 tree structure.

markalliston
09-15-2017, 10:08 PM
I have been researching the Liston Alliston link on Ytree and it seems the link is pretty much traceable back to the 1100,s. We are both U152, Liston is From Edinburgh and and Alliston is from Sudbury where the manor of Liston is located. Liston has a paper record going back to 1700,s with a book written in 1800s showing descent back to the 1500s with a statement saying they took their name from Liston in Essex. Alliston is traceable in Essex back to 1480 and if you include the Liston variant, then back to 1185. They seem to be connected to a Godfrey The Chamberlain who had died by 1185 who may be the same Godfrey the chamberlain who witnessed a charter of King Malcolm IV of Scotland. I suspect he may be Godfrey De Percy who was born in 1105. There is also a Liston variant in Ireland and they claim to have gone over with Henry II when he vacated England after killing Thomas a Becket but they seem to be U106 except for one who has a similar STR to Alliston and the Scottish Liston. He had family connections to the Counts of Louvain and many of the Nobility who went with him to Ireland came from the Lowlands. There are some good books detailing the Norman colonisation of Ireland. One of the early De Percy's married a Copeland and Copeland is my next closest match on YTree. Copeland is an area in Cumbria and some of the kings of Scotland were also known as princes of Copeland. That takes 3 of us back almost 900 years and there are so many more U152 it means either a mass migration of U152 families which is possible as Northumberland was basically torched during the Norman period and had to be rebuilt or the U152 were already there and had family networks spreading through Europe. These families had crusader connections and some branches are found in Turkey and Africa.

jcmax68
07-17-2019, 06:49 PM
Interesting. I am U152>L2>Z367>L20 with a current terminal SNP of FT20578. My MDKA was from Antrim (not sure if born there) around 1700. Our family genealogy goes dark there are we haven't found solid path further back yet. I have one Y67 match from Aberdeen who traces to a MacNeil in western isles of Scotland. I think it is interesting that you also have a MacNeill match out of Scotland. It seems unlikely that both your line way down in Cork and MacNeills way up north would be of Norman descent. But I suppose by this time, with all the mobility over the intervening centuries its hard to say. I rather like the thought of being bronze age Celts from 2200BC, but I imagine U152 in British Isles is mostly Norman, maybe a good dose of Roman auxiliary Belgae, and maybe some Dane. My YDNA matches imply that my Ulster 6th GGF line probably traces back to Scotland (strongest match ancestries leads to Aberdeen and Midlothian), but so far results are to genetically distant to be of much use. Only non-familial BigY match I have on FTDNA traces to Ulster as well (Londonderry), though in mid-1800s.

Robbiem1
07-28-2019, 02:40 AM
Hi, although you posted this some time ago, you might like to consider the flight of 13000 Palatines down the Rhine in 1709/1710, some of whom(about 3000) made it to Ireland, lived esp. around Limerick, and from there went to America, as a possible vector.
Robbiem1 ( U152>L2>Z49>S8183>Y4356 etc)

jcmax68
07-30-2019, 02:44 PM
I've done BigY700 on FTDNA, so just out of curiosity I ran an advance Y-match search under "Barr*" to see what showed up since I am also U152 out of Ireland (though my trace is to Ulster/Amtrim). I only have about 7 distant "Barry" Y12 matches. However, none show a known MDKA back to Ireland (most only trace to early colonial America or unknown). Two show only M269, but there are 5x more refined SNPs in the others. They are: R-BY13576, R-Z253, R-BY23881, R-Y53844, R-DC40. I didn't back trace them to see if any/all are under U152 subclade. Thought info might be of interest to folks here nontheless.

jbarry6899
07-30-2019, 02:50 PM
Those men are all members of the Barry project who have Cork ancestors and are in various subclades of Z253. As you are in U152 you are not paternally related to them.

jcmax68
07-30-2019, 04:43 PM
Thanks jbarry6899. If you know of any Irish surname lines that are U152 or downtrace from U152 I'd be interested to know. As of right now, the only ones I know that are U152>L20 like me are my paternal uncle and myself (surname Wilkinson)(terminal FT20578), and our one BigY700 match surnamed Black (last common shared BY69713). Wilkinson is of course English, but there were quite a few MacQuilkins (or variants) were apparently interchangeable on Rathlin Island and in Islay and Kintyre (all a stone's throw from Antrim). But so far no matches. Closest is the Y67 MacNeill fellow who traces to Tiree, but he's not refined his SNP past M269, though I would wager he is almost certainly U152>L20 at least. There seem to be a great many "Wilkie" who came over to Ulster in 1600s from Scotland. I'm guessing we may be linked with them back before 1700, but so far a confirmed genealogical connection has eluded us.

jcmax68
07-30-2019, 05:05 PM
Looking at my haplo results I see I am negative for both Z49 and Z253. I wonder though if my +Z367>L20 is also Anglo-Norman. The inability to get a toe-hold on such a low density SNP is exasperating.

mihaitzateo
07-30-2019, 05:10 PM
I think you also need to know the year when the R1B-U152 specific YDNA was formed to estimate when it came to Ireland.
EDIT:
For example a R1B-U152 that was formed 2200 YBP can be associated with the Romans.

A R1B-U152 that was formed 1000 YBP till 800 YBP can be associated with Normans.
We can say that the Normans invasion in France caused massive changes in some people lifestyle, that cause some mutations in their R1B-U152 which resulted in the formation of a new R1B-U152 branch.
Also, the moving of some R1B-U152 from France to Britain caused massive changes in their lifestyle that could triggered a mutation.

And so on.

jcmax68
08-05-2019, 05:03 PM
I think you also need to know the year when the R1B-U152 specific YDNA was formed to estimate when it came to Ireland.
EDIT:
For example a R1B-U152 that was formed 2200 YBP can be associated with the Romans.

A R1B-U152 that was formed 1000 YBP till 800 YBP can be associated with Normans.
We can say that the Normans invasion in France caused massive changes in some people lifestyle, that cause some mutations in their R1B-U152 which resulted in the formation of a new R1B-U152 branch.
Also, the moving of some R1B-U152 from France to Britain caused massive changes in their lifestyle that could triggered a mutation.

And so on.

What is best way to determine the SNP age? According to http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics/p312/table.html L2 is about 2700 BC. L20 is about 2200 BC. If I am deciphering FTDNA's generation estimates column on BigY Block Tree correctly (though I'm skeptical because the generation count seems to vary depending o what level of the tree you look at) the block in between L2 and L20 (Z367) is about 1700 YBP or 300 AD (somethings wrong because that is younger that L20. Again per FTDNA, my terminal SNP (FT20578) is about 825 YBP or roughly 1200 AD, and next step back is BY69713 at around maybe 1300 YBP or 700 AD. But its difficult to know when in those sequences out line actually arrived in England. If we arrived as Z367, that would comport to Roman, if BY69713 maybe Viking (but U152 is very low density in Nordic population, Cimbri echo out of Denmark?)? If at our terminal SNP, that is close to Norman Conquest. But how can the "arrival SNP" (in Britain) even be determined? Am I thinking about this correctly or am I way off?

MitchellSince1893
04-21-2021, 11:33 PM
Sorry to dig up this old thread. Recently I’ve learned via a 110cM ancestry.com match that my paternal line, beyond my known great grandfather, has some Irish ancestry.

Based on my father and is paternal half sister’s matches, it appears all/almost all of chromosome 11 came from their mystery paternal grandfather. Best I can tell, at least 87% of this is from Ireland...maybe all of it. It appears the bulk of the matches are from the lower half of Ireland.

Hence my renewed interest in this old thread, as it could very well turn out that my paternal line great great grandfather was 100% Irish.

JoeyP37
04-21-2021, 11:55 PM
At FamilyTreeDNA's haplotree, there are 16 Z142 men from the isle of Ireland, 9 from the south and 7 from the north. There are a total of 616 Z142s in the database, so it isn't a very large percentage by any means.

MitchellSince1893
04-22-2021, 01:21 AM
At FamilyTreeDNA's haplotree, there are 16 Z142 men from the isle of Ireland, 9 from the south and 7 from the north. There are a total of 616 Z142s in the database, so it isn't a very large percentage by any means.

On my branch of Z142 (Z12222) there are 3 out of 264 from Ireland, and on Z142>Z12222>FGC12378 there are 0 out of 48. I might turn out to be the first from Ireland on this 1300 BC branch

RobertCasey
04-22-2021, 02:58 AM
I have found 1,439 testers that are confirmed to be U152 at Y67 markers or higher. Here is the breakdown of countries of origin listed:

England - 279
Germany - 150
Ireland - 86
France - 81
Italy - 71
UK - 69
Scotland - 66
Switzerland - 58
Spain - 20
Netherlands - 19
Wales - 17
No. Ireland - 16
Sweden - 15
Poland - 14
Belgium - 13
Russian Fed - 11
Ukraine - 9
Czech Rep - 8
Austria - 7
Belarus - 7
Hungary - 6
Turkey - 6
Denmark - 5
Portugal - 5

Others Algeria (2), Bosnia (1), Bulgaria (1), Greece (3), Latvia (2), Lithuiania (4), Montenegro (1), Palestine Terr (1), Slovakia (4)
A large number have no entry for this field and many others are US, Canada, Australia and Latin America.

The U152 project has just over twice as many but many are R-M269 (predicted to be U152) and a lot are Y37 and lower as well.
But both probably track each other with such large numbers of testers included..

I was somewhat surprised of how much all of Europe was included. I always believed that U152 was northwestern European but
was surprised so much UK/Ireland and so much Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece.

Cascio
04-22-2021, 07:23 AM
I have found 1,439 testers that are confirmed to be U152 at Y67 markers or higher. Here is the breakdown of countries of origin listed:

England - 279
Germany - 150
Ireland - 86
France - 81
Italy - 71
UK - 69
Scotland - 66
Switzerland - 58
Spain - 20
Netherlands - 19
Wales - 17
No. Ireland - 16
Sweden - 15
Poland - 14
Belgium - 13
Russian Fed - 11
Ukraine - 9
Czech Rep - 8
Austria - 7
Belarus - 7
Hungary - 6
Turkey - 6
Denmark - 5
Portugal - 5

Others Algeria (2), Bosnia (1), Bulgaria (1), Greece (3), Latvia (2), Lithuiania (4), Montenegro (1), Palestine Terr (1), Slovakia (4)
A large number have no entry for this field and many others are US, Canada, Australia and Latin America.

The U152 project has just over twice as many but many are R-M269 (predicted to be U152) and a lot are Y37 and lower as well.
But both probably track each other with such large numbers of testers included..

I was somewhat surprised of how much all of Europe was included. I always believed that U152 was northwestern European but
was surprised so much UK/Ireland and so much Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece.

I would say Switzerland and NW Italy had higher percentages of U152 than most other places.

Britain,especially England, has more U106.

MitchellSince1893
04-22-2021, 01:21 PM
Except for Norway (1.3%) and Sweden (1.8%), of all the countries in Western Europe, Ireland has the lowest percentage of U152 in the FTDNA Haplotree.

Ireland is 2.0 % (196 of 9592)
N. Ireland is 2.36% (26 out of 1104)
Portugal is 2.37% (20 of 844)
Scotland is 2.41% (169 out of 7000)
Spain is 2.44% (55 of 2353)
Wales is 2.7% (28 of 1033)
Denmark is 3.1% (20 of 643)
Netherlands is 4% (44 of 1100)
England is 4.9% (619 of 12764)
Germany is 5.7% (461 of 8152)
Belgium is 8.3% (33 of 399)
Italy is 9.1% (275 of 3010)
France is 11.1% (330 of 2972)
Luxembourg is 14.3% (7 of 49)
Switzerland is 14.4% (213 of 1481)

RobertCasey
04-22-2021, 05:26 PM
The FTDNA haplotree is only based on Big Y testers and does not include testers that are YSNP tested individually or tested via SNP packs. But your results include those that still have privacy turned which includes a large number of testers (as well as those that do not belong to any public project or the projects do publish the YSTR reports), But it is a little troubling that these two large views do not track more than you would think they do. It is also much more current than my pull and should be much larger.

But your summary is different since states the percentage of testers with U152 that have Ireland listed. My report shows the percentages by country which ignores the population of each country. This is two different views of geography and this is why they go not track very well. Since Ireland has a much smaller population than England (which has a lot more testers), the relatively high number of Irish U152 testers will not get lost in the R-M222, R-L226, CTS4466. etc. testers. Each view has value though.
.

Unfortunately, neither of our summaries address the original question of the distribution of U152 within Ireland

MitchellSince1893
04-22-2021, 10:25 PM
The FTDNA haplotree is only based on Big Y testers and does not include testers that are YSNP tested individually or tested via SNP packs....

I guess you have forgotten about our prior discussion about this subject.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11364-FTDNA-R1b-Project-Maps&p=617315&viewfull=1#post617315

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11364-FTDNA-R1b-Project-Maps&p=623880&viewfull=1#post623880

As TigerMW said

It was my understanding that the public haplotree included everyone who was SNP tested.

and I previously explained I have not done big Y but I am on the FTDNA haplo tree.

Probably over 60% of U152+ men at FTDNA haven’t joined the U152 project so that’s going to affect project only results.

In raw numbers for Western Europe, Ireland is 6 out of 15 for U152, but it’s only behind England in total samples in the FTDNA Haplotree database. This is in part due to the fact that Ireland is only behind Germany as the #1 source for immigrants to the US, so of course there is going to be more overall U152 from Ireland in the FTDNA Haplotree. The sheer number of US testers with ancestry from Ireland vs a country like Belgium where the U152 percentage is over 4 times that of Ireland and the population is over twice that of Ireland, skews the results.

The point of my post was that U152 in Ireland is more rare percentage wise than in most other Western European countries.

MitchellSince1893
05-05-2021, 02:26 PM
...

and I previously explained I have not done big Y but I am on the FTDNA haplo tree.

....

I just conducted a little experiment to prove that my non-BigY sample (I've only done the FGC12384 single SNP test), is actually on the FTDNA Haplotree under FGC12384.

As seen in the top picture for FGC12384, there are 3 participants with direct paternal line ancestors going back to England and 1 Unknown. I took this screen shot yesterday (top image).

I then went into my FTDNA account and changed my paternal line ancestor country to Bhutan.

Why Bhutan? Because of the 200,000 samples in the FTDNA Haplotree database, none are from the tiny Himalayan country of Bhutan. Also the eastern Himalayas between China and India is not a known U152 hotspot :)

Today I went to the FTDNA Haplotree FGC12384 branch and took another screen shot (bottom image). My non BigY tested sample now shows up as the first ever sample from Bhutan.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ce/44/4c/ce444c1c49a8553f19531ae747856589.png

Direct link here https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/R;name=R-FGC12384

I've now logged back in and changed my and my father's samples to United Kingdom, since there a good chance my paternal might be from Ireland instead of England, and Ireland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland (1801 and 1922) when my paternal line would have lived there. It will probably take a day for this change to show up in the tree.

If I'm ever able to prove my line was from Ireland, I will update our country of origin accordingly.