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View Full Version : Haplogroup BY3146 BY3127



davidbrady
04-07-2017, 12:59 AM
Anyone on this board have information on this haplogroup? I am R-S691* and am seeking others whose terminal SNP is R-S691; and more information on BY3146 and BY 3127. Any help?

Gjlawrie
08-05-2017, 11:47 PM
Anyone on this board have information on this haplogroup? I am R-S691* and am seeking others whose terminal SNP is R-S691; and more information on BY3146 and BY 3127. Any help?

I am in the same boat S691* ... wondering whether to wait for s'thing to evolve.
It would be good to know how many are in this category. Don't want to do more expensive test to learn nothing!
Gordon Lawrie

Peter MacDonald
08-06-2017, 11:59 PM
Pretty sure this is a MacGregor SNP marker. Anyone else able to confirm this??

bobp
08-08-2017, 01:09 AM
On the Big Tree http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=9 , this group has Alexander, Patterson, Quigley, Gardner, Carr, Henderson, Anderson, McWhannel and Brady - MacGregors are not in this group.

davidbrady
09-05-2017, 10:39 PM
Good to hear from you Gordon! Very few in our group. Have you had a look at the Big Tree at ytree.com? It shows the people in our group. Where did your ancestors originate? You may want to consider uploading your information to that site. Alex Williamson, the owner of the site, will place you on the tree and you will be able to see other like me who are in your same group.

davidbrady
09-05-2017, 10:45 PM
Buchanans are also S691+, but are not BY3146 BY3127+. We are all part of R-S691. GJLawrie share the BY3146 BY3127 SNP.

davidbrady
09-17-2017, 01:37 AM
A new haplogroup has been formed from BY3146 BY3127. It is BY-25836 on FTDNA.

Gjlawrie
02-07-2018, 07:05 PM
Hi David, I see we have progressed from the R.S691 with big Y...and we are both R. S691-BY3146-BY25839
Lots of Buchanans, Alexanders, and a few Macgregors.
My family are from Kinross/Fife and I have a paper trail to John Lawrie 1570s possibly to David Lawrie 1550s
So always in this area and Perthshire til 1850s.. the estate we held was Drunzie.... bonnet lairds!

Ysearcher
06-09-2018, 07:30 PM
I just did a search for R-S691, found this thread and joined Anthrogenica to talk. Pat Tagert here. I'm also the original Z13851. Greg Magoon noticed the SNP in my newly published Personal Genome Project results in late 2013. A few months later Jim Wilson released Y chromosome coordinates for SNPs that he had recently discovered, including coordinates for R-S691, so Z13851 and S691 were published at about the same time, which is why you see S691 and Z13851 in the Y chromosome tree. They are synonymous. Go to Alex Williamson's Big Tree to view (links not allowed here)
I don't know if anyone remembers anything about this at all, but I organized an impromptu ad hoc test group at yseq.net in early 2014, comprised of about a dozen men with Y-STR haplotypes that looked promising for R-S691*, and about 3-4 came back derived. One of them was a Buchanan, and as you know, the Buchanan surname has now been widely sampled for S691. As mentioned early in this thread, quite a few surnames are now known to contain clusters of S691+, including many from the southwestern Lowlands, the Strathclyde and Argyll. My sense has long been that Glasgow (Alt Clut) is effectively the geographic center of this SNP, but that's just a guess, and I'm open to discussion about that.
What I wanted to discuss is the asterisk, which implies that there are no variants detected downstream of S691. Using my whole genome data, I extracted about a dozen "private SNPs" from the data, and reviewed them with Thomas at yseq.net. About half of them were eliminated as problematic for Sanger sequencing for one reason or another, so we settled on four (? if I remember correctly). Following the 10% variance rule at FTDNA, I have dozens (at least) of STR matches at FTDNA on 37 STRs, dozens of matches at 67 STRs, but only 11 matches at 111 STRs. Of the many dozens (100+?) matches at FTDNA on 37, 67 or 111 STRs, I have only one very close match, and that is to a Taggart. With 6 proven generations in my pedigree (colonial American), and 5 in his (also American, no immigrant ancestor yet identified), we find no pedigree matches, so we surmise that the most recent common ancestor was prior to immigration of either line to the American colonies. We mismatch on only 3 out of 111 markers, and one of those is YCA IIa/b, where he has a RcloH event - I have 19-24 and he has 19-19. So we are a very close match. Some of my nearest matches at 111 STRs at FTDNA are derived for other SNPs downstream of S691 (for example, FGC10125), so haplotypes that are very close can be deceiving.

So my Taggart match tested the SNPs downstream of S691 that I had reviewed with Thomas at Yseq. He was negative for (2? don't remember, but derived for (2?). I'm wasting my morning away, so I'll look it up later. You can find our FTDNA data on the first page of the FTDNA R-L1335 project > results > colorized
Just search for Tagert or Taggart on that page. We are both A16873+, and that SNP, along with the several other private SNPs tested are available for testing at Yseq.org. My guess is that it is not common, so no way of knowing whether other R-S691* men might be derived. My profile has never been added to the Big Tree, I suppose because my data was derived from whole genome data through the Personal Genome Project, and BED files and BAM files were never made available to the volunteer participants in that project. I don't get it, because my VCF file has proved to be entirely reliable, but for whatever reason, without a Big Y test, my results aren't published anywhere.

I just wanted other R-S691* men to know that the asterisk doesn't necessarily mean that there are other SNPs downstream of S91 that have received little or no attention, and that most men are certainly likely to have at least a few SNPs downstream of S691. It's a matter of finding the needle in a haystack without spending big bucks to do it. The only men who match my STR haplotype on 111 STRs at FTDNA (10% variance rule), who have not been tested downstream of S744, are two Davidsons. At the Davidson surname project, you will find that most participants have done very little SNP testing. So i have no way of knowing whether or not they are even S691+.

This post is just an FYI for other R-S691* men. I hope it all makes sense to those on this thread.

flower
06-10-2018, 03:46 PM
Hey Pat, I'm going to assume you're a descendant of James Tagert of SC/KY/TN/AL. My mom and I are too. I'd ask her to ask her brothers to test but they don't care about genealogy lol. We're descended from James son John, grandson, Elijah.

flower
06-10-2018, 04:07 PM
Also, I don't know if this will help you with the origin of R-S691 in Argyll, but I was able to find some flimsy autosomal matches to descendants of the NH Taggarts. My mom triangulates with a couple of their descendants and some 1st or 2nd Taggart cousins. So it seems possible James grandfather came from county Antrim. The clan stayed in NH but one possibly went to Anson SC where our lineage begins. It seems to me all of the Taggarts of Antrim are related to each other and probably have the same origin in Scotland.

CherylAnn
09-02-2018, 01:30 AM
Anyone on this board have information on this haplogroup? I am R-S691* and am seeking others whose terminal SNP is R-S691; and more information on BY3146 and BY 3127. Any help?

My paternal haplogroup was M-269 on 23 & Me but has recently been updated to R-S691. My Maiden name is Buchanan. I'd love to research this further, but my father is deceased and I have no brothers. I tested my paternal uncle for these haplogroup results.

gmckay3
08-28-2019, 08:06 PM
I am in the same boat S691* ... wondering whether to wait for s'thing to evolve.
It would be good to know how many are in this category. Don't want to do more expensive test to learn nothing!
Gordon Lawrie

I also have a paternal Y R-S691. What can we figure out from this? I feel lost at times with all of this DNA info...