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View Full Version : What are the origins of the Struan Robertsons (Clann Donnachaidh)?



fridurich
04-08-2017, 10:28 PM
Hi everyone.

I find the Robertsons of Struan, Perthshire (Clann Donnachaidh) who were also related to the Robertsons of Lude, and other areas, very interesting. The current chief, and another Struan Robertson have YDNA tested, and are haplogroup M222, but they are also S588 (one SNP downstream of M222), and they are also S603 (one downstream of S588).

The question is what are their origins? Some other families who have been confirmed S603 are my O'Hair cousin (which is my last name also), some men who have surnames that have a tradition of descending from the northern Ui Neill in northern Ireland, maybe 3 Fergusons whose ancestor came from Scotland (maybe from Perthshire and not real far from Struan) some Ewings from Northern Ireland, whose roots lay in Scotland, some names that appear Scottish or English (however there are also innumerable Irish surnames that have been radically anglicized), a McGill (Scottish or Irish?) and perhaps others whose surname doesn't give much of a clue to origins.

Also, there is a descendant of Henry Hare born about 1774 in County Cavan (three counties over from County Down, Northern Ireland, where ancestor Michael O'Hair was born in 1749) Ireland who is a very close STR match to my cousin, and who is also S588. It appears highly probably that this Hare descendant would be S603 also.

I believe it is in the book from Pictland to Alba (I looked through parts of it online), if I remember right, author Alex Woolf, thought that Crinan lay abbot of Dunkeld was or could be descended from the Cenel Connail (part of the northern Ui Neill). St. Columba was said to be of the Ui Neill also. I don't think Woolf mentions the Robertsons, but on this site http://www.donnachaidh.com/history.html, the author of this article believes the results of the Struan Robertson chief's DNA results link him to the Ui Neill. This author also says or conveys something like the land that the Struan Robertsons lived on could have only come about by inheritance, and that the former owners, further back in time, were the Earls of Atholl. He also said that on an early seal that St. Columba is shown enthroned on wolves. Three wolves are part of the Robertson's coat of arms. He also says the supporters of the chief's arms are a dove and a serpent which suggests descent from the kindred of St. Columba. He says Abbot Crinan was ancestor of the earls of Atholl, and basically because of the way the Robertson's came to have their land, the Robertson's would have had to inherit it from the Earls of Atholl.

So what do you all think? Do you think the Struan Robertsons descend from the northern Ui Neill of northern Ireland, or do you feel like the Robertson's shared ancestry with men who have Ui Neill surnames could be explained some other way? Could the DNA have flowed from Perthshire, Scotland to northern Ireland?

I keep an open mind. I welcome all reasonable input and any evidence anyone may have. One thing is for sure, the chief of the Struan Robertson's, my O'Hair cousin, others with Ui Neill surnames, and others with Scottish or English sounding surnames share a YDNA ancestor some where!

Thanks for all input.

MacUalraig
04-09-2017, 03:27 PM
Couple of things. Some of the claims on the clan website are dubious. The link to the Earls of Atholl is one. It derives from research by Gordon MacGregor who is normally very thorough but got a bit carried away with himself, or told the Robertsons want they wanted to hear. I wouldn't call it based on primary sources.

The other is something I noticed the other day, that although supposedly the current chief is S603 there are some Robertsons with (supposedly) Perthshire paper trails also showing up in a brother branch FGC19831. This needs taking into account especially after the initial excitement about linking both the Robertsons and Fergussons together under S603.

fridurich
04-12-2017, 02:27 AM
Thanks for your reply. Seems kind of like I have heard of FGC19831 before but didn't realize it was right under s588. How interesting some Perthshire Robertsons are FGC19831! I agree we need to go before the time of S603 formation since a brother branch to it with Robertsons has been discovered. It does suggest an earlier movement of people into Perthshire.

Just so I dont misunderstand, has the Ferguson chief tested positive for S603?

As you know there are Ewings who are s588, and some are s603 also. Seems like the Ewing territory in Scotland was not far from Lake Lomond, and not extremely far from Argyll either. Do you think that S588 could have originated close to Perthshire, went to western Scotland and spread to Northern Ireland in ancient times?

I am amazed at the number of Scottish surnames and Irish ones that are S588, speaking of a common ancestral origin somewhere. Even though some of these descendants might not want to have an ancient origin in Scotland, and some might not want to have an origin in Ireland. Lol. I love both people (and I have ancestry from both, as well as some from England and Wales). I think you would agree, the only thing that matters is the truth about where S588 and subclades originated and how it spread.

Whether s588 arose close to Perthshire, then to W. Scotland, and then to northern Ireland, or arose in N. Ireland, and spread to Scotland, or arose in N. England and branched off into Ireland and Scotland, or another route, I think the spread of it is very interesting, amazing.

Hopefully as time goes on, ancient S588 or other DNA can be found and shed more light on this.

Thanks for your input.

Kind Regards
Fred


Couple of things. Some of the claims on the clan website are dubious. The link to the Earls of Atholl is one. It derives from research by Gordon MacGregor who is normally very thorough but got a bit carried away with himself, or told the Robertsons want they wanted to hear. I wouldn't call it based on primary sources.

The other is something I noticed the other day, that although supposedly the current chief is S603 there are some Robertsons with (supposedly) Perthshire paper trails also showing up in a brother branch FGC19831. This needs taking into account especially after the initial excitement about linking both the Robertsons and Fergussons together under S603.

MacUalraig
04-12-2017, 06:34 AM
Thanks for your reply. Seems kind of like I have heard of FGC19831 before but didn't realize it was right under s588. How interesting some Perthshire Robertsons are FGC19831! I agree we need to go before the time of S603 formation since a brother branch to it with Robertsons has been discovered. It does suggest an earlier movement of people into Perthshire.

Just so I dont misunderstand, has the Ferguson chief tested positive for S603?

As you know there are Ewings who are s588, and some are s603 also. Seems like the Ewing territory in Scotland was not far from Lake Lomond, and not extremely far from Argyll either. Do you think that S588 could have originated close to Perthshire, went to western Scotland and spread to Northern Ireland in ancient times?

I am amazed at the number of Scottish surnames and Irish ones that are S588, speaking of a common ancestral origin somewhere. Even though some of these descendants might not want to have an ancient origin in Scotland, and some might not want to have an origin in Ireland. Lol. I love both people (and I have ancestry from both, as well as some from England and Wales). I think you would agree, the only thing that matters is the truth about where S588 and subclades originated and how it spread.

Whether s588 arose close to Perthshire, then to W. Scotland, and then to northern Ireland, or arose in N. Ireland, and spread to Scotland, or arose in N. England and branched off into Ireland and Scotland, or another route, I think the spread of it is very interesting, amazing.

Hopefully as time goes on, ancient S588 or other DNA can be found and shed more light on this.

Thanks for your input.

Kind Regards
Fred

Yes no change to the previous info that the current Robertson and Ferguson chiefs tested S603.