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rms2
04-09-2017, 01:17 PM
Ambitious thread title, since thus far there are only two of us with Big Y results.

Anyway, my second closest STR match (109/111) and I are now on YFull's new tree, Version 5.03, both of us with the terminal SNP FGC36974.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1b/

This match, YFull kit YF08619, is second only to my known second cousin (we share the same y-dna line great grandparents), who matches me 111/111. That second cousin has not done the Big Y yet.

YFull gives YF08619 and me a tmrca of 550 years as a midpoint in a range of 1050-250 years, but notice that 250 years is the low end of that range. I think 250-300 years is about right (in other words, our common ancestor was born about 1700-1750). 550 years is too long ago, since that would have us sharing a most recent common ancestor at the very outer limit of the adoption of fixed surnames, especially in Wales, where it is likely our line originated. The paper trail evidence indicates that 250-300 years is probably the best estimate. So, I would not say YFull is wrong, just that the lower end of their tmrca estimate is best.

We're waiting on the Big Y results of another Stevens relative who is a 108/111 match for me. His results might enable YFull to refine that tmrca estimate further.

A 106/111 match for me, but with a different surname (Samuel), is also on YFull's new tree: kit YF08776. He is FGC36974- and is lodged one step back up the tree, at BY160. YFull gives him and me a tmrca estimate of 1550-550 years. Again, I think the lower end of that range is probably right, but I don't have any paper trail evidence to back that up.

MitchellSince1893
04-09-2017, 05:46 PM
I don't know if you've been following my own similar efforts to date my line using various methods
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7479-New-branch-under-R-FGC12401-FGC12384&p=220458&viewfull=1#post220458

But like you I'm finding yfull's SNP dating of TMRCA to be older than the STR method. There is an overlap of the two methods.

In my case the FGC SNP tests are giving the oldest dates, BigY SNP dating in the middle and standard STR dating giving youngest dates.

In post 24 of link above I used McDonald's STR method and I think it may be accurate for me.

I would be curious to see what you get using McDonald's 94 marker method. Simply count how many SNPs have different values and multiply by 111 for the median value, multiple by 97 for the low range, and 125 for the high range.

For example. If you have a 2 SNP difference with your Stevens cousin on these 94 markers it would be 222 ybp (1728 AD), with a range of 196 to 250 years (1700-1754 AD)

The 94 markers

393
390
19
391


426
388
439
389i
392

458


455
454
447
437
448
449




460
GataH4


456
607
576
570


442
438
531
578


590
537
641
472
406s1
511
425


557
594
436
490
534
450
444
481
520
446
617
568
487
572
640
492
565
710
485
632
495
540
714
716
717
505
556
549
589
522
494
533
636
575
638
462
452
445
A10
463
441
1B07
525
712
593
650
532
715
504
513
561
552
726
635
587
643
497
510
434
461
435

rms2
04-09-2017, 10:04 PM
You mean genetic distance on those markers, right?

rms2
04-09-2017, 10:21 PM
I don't know if you've been following my own similar efforts to date my line using various methods
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7479-New-branch-under-R-FGC12401-FGC12384&p=220458&viewfull=1#post220458

But like you I'm finding yfull's SNP dating of TMRCA to be older than the STR method. There is an overlap of the two methods.

In my case the FGC SNP tests are giving the oldest dates, BigY SNP dating in the middle and standard STR dating giving youngest dates.

In post 24 of link above I used McDonald's STR method and I think it may be accurate for me.

I would be curious to see what you get using McDonald's 94 marker method. Simply count how many SNPs have different values and multiply by 111 for the median value, multiple by 97 for the low range, and 125 for the high range.

For example. If you have a 2 SNP difference with your Stevens cousin on these 94 markers it would be 222 ybp (1728 AD), with a range of 196 to 250 years (1700-1754 AD)

The 94 markers

393
390
19
391


426
388
439
389i
392

458


455
454
447
437
448
449




460
GataH4


456
607
576
570


442
438
531
578


590
537
641
472
406s1
511
425


557
594
436
490
534
450
444
481
520
446
617
568
487
572
640
492
565
710
485
632
495
540
714
716
717
505
556
549
589
522
494
533
636
575
638
462
452
445
A10
463
441
1B07
525
712
593
650
532
715
504
513
561
552
726
635
587
643
497
510
434
461
435

On those markers my 109/111 Stevens match (YF08619) and I have just one unit of genetic distance, at 452. That gives us a median tmrca of 111 years, or 1839. The range from high to low is 1825-1853.

That's too recent, IMHO, given the paper trail info. I think about 1700-1750 is right.

MitchellSince1893
04-10-2017, 02:06 AM
You mean genetic distance on those markers, right?

I can't find where McDonald specifies whether he means gd or just the number of STRs with different values.

EDIT: I think he uses the infinite alleles model (assumes any variance in*an*STR is a single mutation whether 1 or more steps is treated as one event). He says "Generally speaking, the infinite alleles will be more accurate for younger clades"

rms2
04-10-2017, 11:51 AM
I can't find where McDonald specifies whether he means gd or just the number of STRs with different values.

EDIT: I think he uses the infinite alleles model (assumes any variance in*an*STR is a single mutation whether 1 or more steps is treated as one event). He says "Generally speaking, the infinite alleles will be more accurate for younger clades"

The result is the same either way for me and my Stevens cousin, YF08619. We have just one unit of genetic distance at any of those 94 markers, in this case, at 452, where he has 30 and I have 31.

rms2
04-10-2017, 03:22 PM
There is a possibility that McDonald's STR method isn't too far off, at least at the 1825 mark. My Stevens cousin (YF08619) and I have discussed the possibility that our current mdkas were half brothers, with the same father (obviously). My mdka was born in 1804 and YF08619's mdka was born in 1818, so it's possible that his mdka was the product of a second marriage after our mutual Stevens ancestor's first wife died. The tradition in my family is that my third great grandfather and his two brothers (born 1807 and 1809) were orphaned and bound out to learn trades. They preserved and passed along the name of their mother but not that of their father, except for the surname. If their father had shipped them off as apprentices and then remarried, it would stand to reason that they might not have thought of him too fondly or have been too concerned with telling their own offspring about grandpa.

My third great grandfather's name was Auguston, also spelled Augustine. That name occurs repeatedly in my Stevens cousin's family, as well. Even one of the girls was named Augustina.

One of our Fayette County, PA, suspects is Augustine Stevens, born about 1776. He might be our mutual ancestor. We just cannot prove it yet. Augustine had a brother named Benjamin Stevens (among other brothers). We already have two 111-marker Stevens matches with solid paper trails to Benjamin.

MitchellSince1893
04-10-2017, 04:56 PM
Or it could be that you were over due for a mutation/getting one the next generation. Who knows? It's not gonna be gnat's ass accurate...scientific term.

Thanks for checking.

PS realized I called you "Steve" in another thread...sorry about that.

asquecco
04-10-2017, 08:09 PM
Ambitious thread title, since thus far there are only two of us with Big Y results.

Anyway, my second closest STR match (109/111) and I are now on YFull's new tree, Version 5.03, both of us with the terminal SNP FGC36974.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1b/

This match, YFull kit YF08619, is second only to my known second cousin (we share the same y-dna line great grandparents), who matches me 111/111. That second cousin has not done the Big Y yet.

YFull gives YF08619 and me a tmrca of 550 years as a midpoint in a range of 1050-250 years, but notice that 250 years is the low end of that range. I think 250-300 years is about right (in other words, our common ancestor was born about 1700-1750). 550 years is too long ago, since that would have us sharing a most recent common ancestor at the very outer limit of the adoption of fixed surnames, especially in Wales, where it is likely our line originated. The paper trail evidence indicates that 250-300 years is probably the best estimate. So, I would not say YFull is wrong, just that the lower end of their tmrca estimate is best.

We're waiting on the Big Y results of another Stevens relative who is a 108/111 match for me. His results might enable YFull to refine that tmrca estimate further.

A 106/111 match for me, but with a different surname (Samuel), is also on YFull's new tree: kit YF08776. He is FGC36974- and is lodged one step back up the tree, at BY160. YFull gives him and me a tmrca estimate of 1550-550 years. Again, I think the lower end of that range is probably right, but I don't have any paper trail evidence to back that up.

Hi,
in my case YFull underestimates the MRCA. Of course YFull is not to blame because I think some SNPs appear to be missing maybe for no-calls, poor quality, few reads etc. Probably from 1500 onwards, only FGC has the right SNP resolution.

15146

rms2
04-10-2017, 09:20 PM
Or it could be that you were over due for a mutation/getting one the next generation. Who knows? It's not gonna be gnat's ass accurate...scientific term.

Thanks for checking.

PS realized I called you "Steve" in another thread...sorry about that.

That's alright. When I was a kid I was called Stevie, and at dna forums I was Stevo. I don't mind. My mom still calls my dad Steve, since that was how she was introduced to him. He was in the Navy, and if your name was Stevens, you were "Steve", if McDonald "Mac", etc.

rms2
04-13-2017, 11:47 PM
Another of my Stevens cousins, kit 312416, a 108/111 match, has received his Big Y results. He is derived for FGC36974, like my 109/111 Stevens match and me. Unless he has changed his mind, he will submit his BAM file to Alex Williamson and to YFull for analysis.

Here is a graphic I made that shows our current phylogenetic position. The block at the top of the chart shows our y haplogroup R lineage leading up to DF41/CTS2501.

15235

rms2
04-14-2017, 06:22 PM
I've spruced up that graphic a bit. I even have a version that includes names, but I won't post it, since that would violate the privacy of a couple of my matches.

15284

rms2
04-16-2017, 01:59 PM
I've spruced up that graphic a bit. I even have a version that includes names, but I won't post it, since that would violate the privacy of a couple of my matches.

15284

I was playing around with Word and created another tree, like a pedigree chart but using SNPs instead of the names of ancestors. Hope I didn't make any errors. A couple of posts back I inadvertently left out L754 (I caught the mistake, so L754 is in the tree in the last post though), so hopefully I didn't leave anything out this time.

15289

rms2
04-17-2017, 10:28 PM
Okay, here is something that is potentially consequential. I mentioned that kit 312416, a 108/111 match for me, got his Big Y results a couple of days ago. Once that happened, FTDNA listed his terminal SNP as FGC36974. Up until his results arrived, FTDNA had also listed my terminal SNP and that of my 109/111 match kit 522600 as FGC36974. We were all FGC36974 and we all have the same surname.

Then, when 312416's Big Y results came in, FTDNA switched 522600 and me to FGC36982. Weird, I thought. I looked for FGC36982 in the results of 312416, but I could not find any report, derived or ancestral (positive or negative). So, I wrote FTDNA and asked them about this apparent discrepancy.

Today I heard back from FTDNA. According to them, 312416 is actually negative for FGC36982, and 522600 and I are positive for FGC36982.

Whoa.

Apparently that means FGC36982 is downstream of FGC36974, and it means that 522600 and I are more closely related to each other than we are to 312416, even though we are all close 111-marker STR matches and bear the same surname.

If this all pans out and is not the product of some strange error, I think it means that 522600 and I share a more recent common ancestor than either of us share with the rest of our same-surname matches (obviously), and here's what else I think it means. I think it means 522600's mdka Amos Young Stevens and my mdka Auguston Stevens are half brothers. I think our mutual Stevens ancestor remarried after his first wife died. He farmed out my ancestor Auguston and his two brothers as apprentices to learn trades after his first wife died, which is why they weren't fond enough of his memory to pass on his name other than the surname. It also explains why the name Auguston/Augustine was passed along in 522600's family as it was in mine.

It will be interesting to see how all this works out. :confused:

Here is a graphic that illustrates the current situation:

15319

rms2
04-22-2017, 04:04 PM
I was finally able to get into FTDNA's Haplotree this morning from my own myFTDNA pages. Here is a screenshot showing that they have FGC36982 downstream of FGC36974 (as I mentioned in my last post above).

15389

rms2
04-22-2017, 07:08 PM
Here is a closer view of FTDNA's Haplotree from my own myFTDNA Haplotree & SNPs page, with some details added by me.

15393

I know this is my own personal genealogical stuff and may not interest anyone else all that much, but this recent development has me pretty excited. I am finally starting to see a real pay-off from the Big Y test, which I had been starting to think should have been called the Big Why?.

That 109/111 match who shares my terminal SNP, FGC36982, has an mdka who was born in Columbiana County, Ohio, which borders Beaver County, Pennsylvania, on the west, where my y-dna second great grandfather was born. A number of my second great grandfather's siblings were born in Ohio, probably in Columbiana County. The given name Auguston/Augustine occurs repeatedly in both of our families. That is my mdka's name, and it is the name of a man born about 1750 who, along with his son of the same name, born about 1776, are prominent members of a pool of research-confirmed and y-dna testing-confirmed possible ancestors in the Western PA/Eastern Ohio area in the late 1700s through early 1800s.

rms2
04-22-2017, 11:11 PM
Here is a closer view of FTDNA's Haplotree from my own myFTDNA Haplotree & SNPs page, with some details added by me.

15393

I know this is my own personal genealogical stuff and may not interest anyone else all that much, but this recent development has me pretty excited. I am finally starting to see a real pay-off from the Big Y test, which I had been starting to think should have been called the Big Why?.

That 109/111 match who shares my terminal SNP, FGC36982, has an mdka who was born in Columbiana County, Ohio, which borders Beaver County, Pennsylvania, on the west, where my y-dna second great grandfather was born. A number of my second great grandfather's siblings were born in Ohio, probably in Columbiana County. The given name Auguston/Augustine occurs repeatedly in both of our families. That is my mdka's name, and it is the name of a man born about 1750 who, along with his son of the same name, born about 1776, are prominent members of a pool of research-confirmed and y-dna testing-confirmed possible ancestors in the Western PA/Eastern Ohio area in the late 1700s through early 1800s.

Some of you may recall that I and my second cousin (a 111/111 match) have hired Ancestry genealogists to do some paper trail research. I just wrote them to give them an update on this recent Big Y development. Naturally, I sent the email and then looked back at it and found a couple of typos that make me look like a complete dork. Aarrgghh! Always proofread! Why don't I follow that simple advice? :doh:

rms2
04-24-2017, 11:18 PM
Here is a graphic I created in which I speculate about the genealogical relationship between myself and my fellow Stevens R1b-FGC36982 match. This could be wrong, but I think it might be right.

15413

rms2
04-25-2017, 10:03 PM
A 107/111 match of mine with my surname, kit 326490, just ordered the Big Y today. It took me by surprise, but I sure am glad. B)

rms2
04-27-2017, 11:00 PM
I have been involved in genetic genealogy since March of 2006, when I ordered my initial 37-marker STR test from FTDNA. I remember when SNP testing wasn't much good. It did not get one past R1b1 at first, then it went to M269 and was stuck there for awhile, that is, if one was not S21+ (U106+), S28+ (U152+), M222+, or M153+.

Now SNPs are actually useful for genealogy and better than STRs ever were.

rms2
04-30-2017, 03:12 PM
Another of my Stevens cousins, kit 312416, a 108/111 match, has received his Big Y results. He is derived for FGC36974, like my 109/111 Stevens match and me. Unless he has changed his mind, he will submit his BAM file to Alex Williamson and to YFull for analysis . . .

Kit 312416 finally got the link to his bam file. He sent it off to YFull and to Alex Williamson. He sent his STRs to Alex, as well.

Now more waiting. Groan!

rms2
05-05-2017, 10:41 PM
My Stevens 108/111 str match, kit 312416, is now on Alex Williamson's Big Tree. Alex's findings support what FTDNA found and added to their Haplotree, that FGC36982 is downstream of FGC36974. Here's a screenshot:

15599

rms2
06-03-2017, 04:39 PM
Another of my matches (106/111), this one with the Stephens variant of my surname, just ordered the Big Y test.

He has a 109/111 match, also with the surname Stephens, who is a 107/111 match for me. I am hoping he will order the Big Y, as well.

rms2
06-16-2017, 11:20 PM
Kit 326490 got his Big Y results a couple of days ago. He is derived for FGC36974 underneath BY160, Y8426 and CTS2501/DF41.

FGC36974 is apparently the SNP of the shared most recent common ancestor of our Stephens/Stevens group. All four Big Y tested Stevens men are derived for it. Kits 522600 and 59080 (me) are also derived for FGC36982 underneath FGC36974. That means I and my 109/111 match share an ancestor one or two generations more recently than the one we share with our other Stephens/Stevens matches (other than my known second cousin, who matches me 111/111 and whose grandfather is the brother of my grandfather).



16943

rms2
06-16-2017, 11:39 PM
This SAPP tree I ran back a few weeks ago predicted things pretty well.

16944

Kit B112267 has a Big Y test pending. He is off of Node 13 in the SAPP tree above.

rms2
06-17-2017, 11:22 AM
Alex Williamson has already placed 326490 on the Big Tree but in red shading to indicate the analysis is not yet fully complete and positions could change. Here are a couple of screenshots modified for ease of viewing, with my explanatory notes added to the second one.

16960 16961

rms2
06-18-2017, 09:42 PM
The speculative part of this may be all wrong, but here is a graphic I made to try to make some sense of what we are learning from our Big Y tests. I put it side by side with the Stevens snippet from Alex Williamson's Big Tree to show what the phylogenetic part is based on.

Kit 522600 and I are more closely related to each other than we are to all our other Stephens/Stevens matches (I am not counting my known family members who have tested), because he and I share the terminal SNP FGC36982, which thus far is exclusive to our line. I think our third great grandfathers might have been half brothers (but I don't know that for sure).

No doubt each line has its own unique terminal SNP. What is needed to discover those is more Big Y testing by our relatives.

16998 16999

The given name Augustine/Auguston occurs frequently in my family and in the family of kit 522600, who matches me 109/111 on STRs. In 522600's family even one of the daughters was named Augustina.

I recruited 522600 from Ancestry because I thought he might be related. That was one of the smartest things I have ever done.

Notice the middle name of kit 522600's third great grandfather, Amos Young Stevens. Augustine Stevens' (b. about 1750) wife was Sophia Young.

rms2
06-28-2017, 12:19 PM
This SAPP tree I ran back a few weeks ago predicted things pretty well.

16944

Kit B112267 has a Big Y test pending. He is off of Node 13 in the SAPP tree above.

Thus far that SAPP tree has been accurate. It predicted we all would share the SNP FGC36974, the mark of descent from a common y-dna ancestor. Yesterday, Stephens, kit B112267, got his Big Y results (over a month ahead of schedule), and he is FGC36974+, like all of the Big Y tested Stephens/Stevens in our cluster thus far.

I sent him a how-to email on submitting his raw data to Alex Williamson and to YFull.

Here's how things stand now phylogenetically (adapted from FTDNA's Haplotree):

17257

rms2
06-29-2017, 02:37 PM
Alex already has Stephens, kit B112267, on the Big Tree. The analysis is not completely finished for the kits shaded in red. Theoretically, their positions could change, but they probably won't.

Further Big Y testing probably will develop new branches, if we get any further Big Y testing.

I actually feel pretty blessed to have eight Big Y tests for our little group, including five for the Stephens/Stevens bunch. Of course, I am greedy for more. I think fleshing out our little section of the tree can only help resolve genealogical issues and pin down the date of our mrca, as well as the dates for the founders of the various branches that develop.

17289

rms2
06-30-2017, 07:48 PM
I probably should not mention this, because it may fizzle out.

Anyway, recently I found a lady on Ancestry who is a descendant of Jacob H. Stevens, born 31 October 1817. Jacob is the son of Amos H. Stevens and his wife Hannah Cunning, and Amos is one of our pool of apparent family members turned up by Joan Peake's research of last year. Even more importantly, Amos was the son of Augustine "Augustus" Stevens and his wife Sophia Young, of whom one source said that they were of "Welsh and English extraction". I have never heard of the name Young being Welsh, but Stephens/Stevens definitely is.

Anyway, I messaged this Stevens woman and asked her if she has a male Stevens relative who might be willing to take a y-dna test if I paid for it. She answered me today (after a week or so) and said she has her father and brother.

She doubts her brother will do it, but she thinks her father might. I have offered a 12-marker test with the understanding that if he matches us, we will try to upgrade him. I really hope this comes about! :-)

Here's a photo of Jacob I got from this very nice lady (undoubtedly a cousin). She got it from one of her grandmothers. It is from a Stevens family reunion photo in Ohio in the early 1900s. Ohio and Pennsylvania seem to be Stephens/Stevens Ground Zero.

17315

rms2
07-10-2017, 09:24 PM
Sadly, I may have been right about this fizzling out. I have not heard from this lady since July 1st.

JMcB
07-11-2017, 12:03 AM
Sadly, I may have been right about this fizzling out. I have not heard from this lady since July 1st.

Well, considering: "She answered me today (after a week or so) and said she has her father and brother," perhaps she just about on schedule. Hopefully, that is.

rms2
07-22-2017, 05:33 PM
Well, considering: "She answered me today (after a week or so) and said she has her father and brother," perhaps she just about on schedule. Hopefully, that is.

It's looking like this lady's married surname is Stevens but that coincidentally she descends through her paternal grandmother from one of my Stevens relatives. So her dad and brother won't be of any help, and testing them would be a waste of time and money.

Another wild goose chase. I'm still looking for the right men to test.

rms2
07-26-2017, 03:57 PM
This has little to do with the Big Y, but here are some photos one y-dna descendant of mine (my youngest son) took of two other y-dna descendants of mine (his sons, my grandsons) while fishing yesterday in Frederick County, Virginia, not far from the West Virginia line. The weather was nice: low 80s F.

17764 17765

rms2
07-26-2017, 10:08 PM
This has little to do with the Big Y, but here are some photos one y-dna descendant of mine (my youngest son) took of two other y-dna descendants of mine (his sons, my grandsons) while fishing yesterday in Frederick County, Virginia, not far from the West Virginia line. The weather was nice: low 80s F.

17764 17765

My son Jim, the guy who took those photos, has two copies of the red hair variant, Arg160Trp. I have one. He got the other one from his mother. He's a strawberry blond, like his oldest boy, Jim. Richy, however, my namesake, has red hair (as you can clearly see). His mom is a redhead. She's a Russian, from Volgograd, maiden name Shishlyanikova (say that three times fast). Her dad, Viktor Shishlyanikov, was a redhead.

rms2
08-02-2017, 12:01 AM
Here's a snippet from YFull's R1b Tree, version 5.05, showing our R1b-41-1123 cluster, including the Stevens guys who have submitted their Big Y BAM files to YFull. We have another one who should be added to the tree soon.

Notice we are under Y8426 under CTS2501/DF41. We share Y8426 with the 1426 cluster (not shown in this snippet), which, if I recall correctly, is 100% Scottish. Our group is a Welsh and Welsh Borders cluster.

I added the names, kit numbers and mdka info.

17875

spruithean
08-02-2017, 12:11 AM
Fantastic stuff rms2!

Certainly motivating me to soon fork out some money for some much deeper testing!

rms2
08-02-2017, 12:13 AM
Fantastic stuff rms2!

Certainly motivating me to soon fork out some money for some much deeper testing!

The Big Y is on sale right now for $395, which is the cheapest we're likely to see it for a long time.

I've never regretted the money I spent on it.

rms2
08-03-2017, 02:27 AM
Good news for me as a consequence of FTDNA's "Sizzlin' Summer Sale": a 107/111 match who spells my surname with a ph (Stephens), kit 208061, has ordered the Big Y. He is the closest match (109/111) of another of my Big Y-tested matches, who also spells the name Stephens, kit B112267. I am thinking the two of them may share an as-yet-undiscovered SNP under FGC36974 that characterizes their particular branch of the family.

No guarantees, of course, but I am looking forward to the results.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
08-03-2017, 06:26 AM
Good news for me as a consequence of FTDNA's "Sizzlin' Summer Sale": a 107/111 match who spells my surname with a ph (Stephens), kit 208061, has ordered the Big Y. He is the closest match (109/111) of another of my Big Y-tested matches, who also spells the name Stephens, kit B112267. I am thinking the two of them may share an as-yet-undiscovered SNP under FGC36974 that characterizes their particular branch of the family.

No guarantees, of course, but I am looking forward to the results.

I did mention to you I had an ancestor from Llanafon Fawr? I'm just shamelessly using that as an opportunity to pick your brains if you don't mind. :)
They are currently looking at my BAM file at the moment but the "Cecil" project manager believes I share the SNP BY20441 with another person on the Cecil line and our SNP pre-dates the Burghley line, so maybe the Cecil line should be re-named the Howells line. :)
He is in discussion with the U106 project group to see if this and an estimated date can be confirmed.
I note though that when I look on FTDNA Map for (Cecil line) SNP matches, there don't seem to be any. Is that unusual? The earliest identified Cecil SNP so far is estimated to date to around 995 AD. I'm wondering whether that might indicate that our ancestors weren't actually in the UK until around the time of the conquest? ( shortage of testers in France? ) The known or probable ancestral origins of the descendants (some don't know or are uncertain) seems to be close to the Border, Herefordshire and Gloucestershire. Some surnames appear to have Welsh origins, some English, which suggests to me early ancestry close to the border - the surnames could have gone either way.
I suppose with more testing an earlier maybe Anglo Saxon period SNP could turn up somewhere. I have an exact 12 marker match near Brecon which intrigues me (the only one in the UK). I don't know to what level he has tested. Would that be worth pursuing? There are reasons why I don't want be too intrusive at the moment or as it's only 12 markers is it not worth it?
Sorry to intrude on your thread, I won't do it again, but would value any thoughts or suggestions. John

rms2
08-03-2017, 12:27 PM
I did mention to you I had an ancestor from Llanafon Fawr? I'm just shamelessly using that as an opportunity to pick your brains if you don't mind. :)
They are currently looking at my BAM file at the moment but the "Cecil" project manager believes I share the SNP BY20441 with another person on the Cecil line and our SNP pre-dates the Burghley line, so maybe the Cecil line should be re-named the Howells line. :)
He is in discussion with the U106 project group to see if this and an estimated date can be confirmed.

Have you submitted your BAM file to YFull?



I note though that when I look on FTDNA Map for (Cecil line) SNP matches, there don't seem to be any. Is that unusual?

I'm not sure what you mean about the map there, John. I don't like FTDNA's Big Y Matches thing. It seems to count the total number of shared SNPs rather than focusing on the line of SNPs leading to the terminal SNP, so one often gets closer "matches" with people who don't share one's terminal SNP than he does with people who do.

I rely on the analysis I get from Alex Williamson and from YFull. Of course, those depend on the right Big Y tested individuals submitting their raw data for analysis.



The earliest identified Cecil SNP so far is estimated to date to around 995 AD. I'm wondering whether that might indicate that our ancestors weren't actually in the UK until around the time of the conquest? ( shortage of testers in France? ) The known or probable ancestral origins of the descendants (some don't know or are uncertain) seems to be close to the Border, Herefordshire and Gloucestershire. Some surnames appear to have Welsh origins, some English, which suggests to me early ancestry close to the border - the surnames could have gone either way.

That certainly could be the case. We know there are families who came to Britain with William the Conqueror. Yours could be one of them.

I am a little rusty on my Marcher Lord history, but we know there were prominent Anglo-Norman families settled on the Welsh Border.



I suppose with more testing an earlier maybe Anglo Saxon period SNP could turn up somewhere. I have an exact 12 marker match near Brecon which intrigues me (the only one in the UK). I don't know to what level he has tested. Would that be worth pursuing? There are reasons why I don't want be too intrusive at the moment or as it's only 12 markers is it not worth it?

I pursue all such matches. I've had some that have turned out beautifully, including one that started as an exact 12-marker match, led to a 105/111 match, and turned out to be a Big Y-tested stalwart in our little group. That one does not have my surname either. He's the one whose mdka came from Llanafan fawr. (I've been there, btw. Beautiful little place.)

I found a Stevens second cousin once removed via an exact 12-marker match, as well.

Most such matches won't be much, but they are worth chasing down. You never know.



Sorry to intrude on your thread, I won't do it again, but would value any thoughts or suggestions. John

Please "intrude", otherwise I feel like I am talking to myself.

I don't think I have been much help. My overall recommendation is to pester as many of your close STR matches as possible to do the Big Y test and to submit their results to YFull.

I also recommend submitting the raw data to Alex Williamson for inclusion in his Big Tree, but apparently he is currently only handling P312.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
08-03-2017, 05:37 PM
No, you have been a help I appreciate it. The Brecon match is interesting, farming ancestry there back to the 1700's at least. I have wonder whether we might both be connected in some ways to the Vaughans of nearby Tretower (and also Herefordshire) A male Cecil married into the Vaughans I think. Nothing DNA wise to suggest a Vaughan connection as yet though.
Another interesting 12 marker is a chap in France with the surname Langloise which I think translates roughly as "The Englishman" and could go back to the times of the 100 years war. I'm told by a French friend that the name is quite common around Normandy and particularly Brittany.
I will look into Y Full, I'm waiting to see what the U106 project group concludes. Thanks again. John

rms2
08-04-2017, 07:04 PM
Good news for me as a consequence of FTDNA's "Sizzlin' Summer Sale": a 107/111 match who spells my surname with a ph (Stephens), kit 208061, has ordered the Big Y. He is the closest match (109/111) of another of my Big Y-tested matches, who also spells the name Stephens, kit B112267. I am thinking the two of them may share an as-yet-undiscovered SNP under FGC36974 that characterizes their particular branch of the family.

No guarantees, of course, but I am looking forward to the results.

More good news for me: a lady who manages her son-in-law's kit, and her son-in-law is a Stevens match of mine of 106/111, kit 333340, emailed me and told me she is ordering the Big Y for him today. Haven't seen the order yet, but I have no reason to doubt her.

FTDNA's "Sizzlin' Summer Sale" has started out well.

spruithean
08-04-2017, 07:33 PM
More good news for me: a lady who manages her son-in-law's kit, and her son is a Stevens match of mine of 106/111, kit 333340, emailed me and told me she is ordering the Big Y for him today. Haven't seen the order yet, but I have no reason to doubt her.

FTDNA's "Sizzlin' Summer Sale" has started out well.

That's excellent! I hope his sample adds another piece to the puzzle.

rms2
08-04-2017, 07:53 PM
That's excellent! I hope his sample adds another piece to the puzzle.

It should. He's a y-dna descendant of Benjamin Stevens, b. 1737 in Ellicott's Mills, Maryland (now Ellicott City). He's one of the Fayette County, Pennsylvania, group who was probably the brother of my own y-dna ancestor.

spruithean
08-04-2017, 08:04 PM
It should. He's a y-dna descendant of Benjamin Stevens, b. 1737 in Ellicott's Mills, Maryland (now Ellicott City). He's one of the Fayette County, Pennsylvania, group who was probably the brother of my own y-dna ancestor.

I always enjoy hearing about distant relatives finding their connections through DNA testing. Hopefully all this work can help you all manage to find the immigrant ancestor (if you haven!t already).

Certainly encouraging for my own search! Been hitting some walls that hopefully can be broken down with the right people testing.

rms2
08-05-2017, 01:16 AM
An unexpected bonus: another of my 106/111 matches, kit 212967, has ordered the Big Y! Still waiting on the order from kit 333340.

Kit 212967's dad, Max Stevens, was a fighter pilot who was shot down and killed in the closing days of WWII. 212967 has given me permission to post his dad's photo.

17949

paoloferrari
08-05-2017, 12:33 PM
An unexpected bonus: another of my 106/111 matches, kit 212967, has ordered the Big Y! Still waiting on the order from kit 333340.

Kit 212967's dad, Max Stevens, was a fighter pilot who was shot down and killed in the closing days of WWII. 212967 has given me permission to post his dad's photo.

17949

i give honour to him

razyn
08-05-2017, 01:01 PM
It should. He's a y-dna descendant of Benjamin Stevens, b. 1737 in Ellicott's Mills, Maryland (now Ellicott City). He's one of the Fayette County, Pennsylvania, group who was probably the brother of my own y-dna ancestor.
I heard on WTOP (news) radio a couple of days ago that downtown Ellicott City (which was all but wiped out by a flash flood of the creek there, two years ago) has been rebuilt, 90% of the affected merchants stayed and have restocked, and it's open for business as before. I haven't been there since the flood, but it was a lively place, pedestrian friendly and had good antique shops, a few years ago.

rms2
08-05-2017, 03:29 PM
I heard on WTOP (news) radio a couple of days ago that downtown Ellicott City (which was all but wiped out by a flash flood of the creek there, two years ago) has been rebuilt, 90% of the affected merchants stayed and have restocked, and it's open for business as before. I haven't been there since the flood, but it was a lively place, pedestrian friendly and had good antique shops, a few years ago.

The paper trail stuff shows that our bunch came up to Fayette County, PA, from Ellicott's Mills (now Ellicott City), MD, along with the Murphy family, with whom they had close ties (two of the Stevens guys were married to Murphy daughters). All of them were big time Methodists, as well.

rms2
08-06-2017, 04:43 PM
Here's another update to our little corner of YFull's R1b Tree.

17982

I really like YFull, but there is no way those tmrca dates are right. The paper trail stuff indicates that our most recent common Stephens/Stevens ancestor was probably born sometime between 1650 and 1700. Kit 522600 and I probably share a fourth or fifth great grandfather born around 1750.

ArmandoR1b
08-06-2017, 08:00 PM
Here's another update to our little corner of YFull's R1b Tree.

17982

I really like YFull, but there is no way those tmrca dates are right. The paper trail stuff indicates that our most recent common Stephens/Stevens ancestor was probably born sometime between 1650 and 1700. Kit 522600 and I probably share a fourth or fifth great grandfather born around 1750.

The reason for the TMRCA is that each of you have multiple SNPs that the other person doesn't have. Kit 522600 has more than you do but you also have some that 522600 doesn't have. Maybe BigY did a better job of catching each of your mutations than for most people.

This is what YFull shows publicly for a difference of SNPs. They show you, YF08577, to have two private SNPs and YF08619 to have 4 private SNPs.

17992

https://www.yfull.com/branch-info/R-FGC36982/

Alex Williamson shows you to have 3 private SNPs:
http://www.ytree.net/SNPinfoForPerson.php?personID=1499

Alex Williamson 522600 to have 11 private SNPs
http://www.ytree.net/SNPinfoForPerson.php?personID=5333


What is the GD with 111 STRs between you and 522600? How about the others?

rms2
08-06-2017, 08:16 PM
The reason for the TMRCA is that each of you have multiple SNPs that the other person doesn't have. Kit 522600 has more than you do but you also have some that 522600 doesn't have. Maybe BigY did a better job of catching each of your mutations than for most people.

This is what YFull shows publicly for a difference of SNPs. They show you, YF08577, to have two private SNPs and YF08619 to have 4 private SNPs.

17992

https://www.yfull.com/branch-info/R-FGC36982/

Alex Williamson shows you to have 3 private SNPs:
http://www.ytree.net/SNPinfoForPerson.php?personID=1499

Alex Williamson 522600 to have 11 private SNPs
http://www.ytree.net/SNPinfoForPerson.php?personID=5333


What is the GD with 111 STRs between you and 522600? How about the others?

522600 and I are a 109/111 match. B112267 and I are a 106/111 match. 326490 and I are a 107/111 match, and 312416 and I are a 108/111 match.

Back up the tree, under BY160, 163684 and I are a 103/111 match, and N104746 and I are a 105/111 match.

550 ybp for FGC36974 and FGC36982 would take us back to 1400, since I believe YFull uses 1950 as "present". That would be back before surnames were commonly used in the British Isles and well before they were used in Wales. It would take a miracle for five separate y-dna lines with a most recent common ancestor around 1400 to all wind up with the same surname.

BTW, I appreciate your posting in this thread. More than one set of eyes looking at this stuff is a good thing.

rms2
08-06-2017, 09:29 PM
More good news for me: a lady who manages her son-in-law's kit, and her son-in-law is a Stevens match of mine of 106/111, kit 333340, emailed me and told me she is ordering the Big Y for him today. Haven't seen the order yet, but I have no reason to doubt her.

FTDNA's "Sizzlin' Summer Sale" has started out well.

The Big Y order for kit 333340 came in today.

That makes three our little family group has picked up in the past few days from FTDNA's "Sizzlin' Summer Sale".

It's been good to us. Things will be getting busy and interesting in a month or two.

:beerchug:

rms2
08-11-2017, 01:38 AM
I think I am pretty well blessed with close matches who have done or are doing the Big Y, YFull, and Alex Williamson's Big Tree. I am thankful to God for it. Anyway, here's a Google sheet I created on the current Big Y status of my closest 111-marker matches. There are a couple who have not yet ordered the Big Y, but these are the ones who have. All of this info is available publicly, so I am not revealing any private secrets.

18061

The relevant phylogeny is BY160>FGC36974>FGC36982.

rms2
09-16-2017, 12:33 AM
Still waiting, thanks to Hurricane Harvey.

rms2
09-28-2017, 12:24 AM
I wasn't expecting anything from the newest iteration of YFull's y-dna tree, version 5.06, but I was pleasantly surprised.

The R1b Tree (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1b/) brought some big news for my y-dna relatives, breaking out another line below FGC36974: PF5064. This should help the two guys on that line better direct their genealogical efforts.

Pretty exciting stuff, and we're still waiting for three more sets of Stephens/Stevens Big Y test results.

Here's a screenshot from the appropriate part of YFull's R1b Tree, where you can see what I mean. I added the FTDNA kit numbers and mdka info (all available on public web sites).

19030

spruithean
09-28-2017, 02:57 AM
I'm envious of this success with the Y-DNA testing. Definitely motivating to urge some more advanced testing with my family!

rms2
10-07-2017, 01:36 AM
I think I am pretty well blessed with close matches who have done or are doing the Big Y, YFull, and Alex Williamson's Big Tree. I am thankful to God for it. Anyway, here's a Google sheet I created on the current Big Y status of my closest 111-marker matches. There are a couple who have not yet ordered the Big Y, but these are the ones who have. All of this info is available publicly, so I am not revealing any private secrets.

18061

The relevant phylogeny is BY160>FGC36974>FGC36982.

Our three Big Y tests have been delayed, no doubt due to Hurricane Harvey. Crap.

Muircheartaigh
10-07-2017, 10:32 AM
Our three Big Y tests have been delayed, no doubt due to Hurricane Harvey. Crap.

Likely also to be due to the upcoming change from Hg19 to Hg38. There are lots of Big Ys in the pipeline and it looks like they’re all delayed until after the change. It will save rerunning and reissuing the new ones. If they’ve rerun all of the existing results by then, the matching variants between existing and new should be compatible. If they haven’t there are likely to be further delays.

rms2
10-29-2017, 02:30 PM
Got my updated, converted Big Y results last night. I was at Busch Gardens for their Halloween thingy when I got an email on my cell phone letting me know my Big Y was back, this time in its new, HG38 incarnation.

My terminal SNP is FGC36982 once again, but I have no matches at that level yet, since my likely 5th cousin, Donald, does not yet have his Big Y results back. He was the only other tested FGC36982+ man.

At least one positive that I can see from this change thus far is that FTDNA's Big Y matching seems much improved. It actually shows genuine close matches and not just everyone in the R1b universe like it did before.

rms2
11-11-2017, 04:24 PM
All of the old Stephens/Stevens Big Y results have been updated by FTDNA to HG38. In fact, all the old Big Y results from our entire haplotype cluster project have been updated. Now we are just waiting for the three new Stephens/Stevens Big Y tests to come in.

rms2
11-16-2017, 12:17 PM
All three of our new Big Y tests have been delayed yet again, no doubt due to the big HG38 switcheroo. It's kind of aggravating when one expends so much energy convincing project members to spend all that money on the Big Y and then the results are postponed again and again. Kind of makes it hard to convince anyone else.

rms2
11-29-2017, 01:03 PM
The Big Y order for kit 333340 came in today.

That makes three our little family group has picked up in the past few days from FTDNA's "Sizzlin' Summer Sale".

It's been good to us. Things will be getting busy and interesting in a month or two.

:beerchug:

Kit 333340 had the last of the three relatively recent Big Y orders, and it was the first one done, coming in late last night or early this morning. He is derived for the SNP shared by all of us Stephens/Stevens matches: FGC36974. His actual terminal SNP awaits analysis by Alex Williamson and by YFull (once BAM files become available again).

I hope this means the other two Big Y's will arrive in the next day or two. We've been waiting since the Sizzlin' Summer Sale. Like I said, this was the last of the three, and it was ordered on 06 August.

Kit 333340's mdka is Benjamin Stevens, born 20 Feb 1737 in Ellicott's Mills (now Ellicott City), Maryland.

rms2
12-02-2017, 04:56 PM
I took what we know from Big Y and 111 STR marker testing thus far and ran it through the SAPP tool. This is the tree it produced. I added the genealogical information. Looks like our common Stephens/Stevens ancestor lived about 1650, which makes sense.

Interesting that kit 212967 is in the upper left by himself, since his Charles Stevens mdka is supposed to be identical to the Charles Stevens mdka of kit 312416, who, in terms of STRs, matches him 107/111 (his closest STR match). Kit 212967 has Big Y results pending. If he turns out to be PF5064+ like 312416, that would confirm their paper trails and the idea that they descend from the same Charles Stevens.

20176

Dave-V
12-02-2017, 11:12 PM
I took what we know from Big Y and 111 STR marker testing thus far and ran it through the SAPP tool. This is the tree it produced. I added the genealogical information. Looks like our common Stephens/Stevens ancestor lived about 1650, which makes sense.

Interesting that kit 212967 is in the upper left by himself, since his Charles Stevens mdka is supposed to be identical to the Charles Stevens mdka of kit 312416, who, in terms of STRs, matches him 107/111 (his closest STR match). Kit 212967 has Big Y results pending. If he turns out to be PF5064+ like 312416, that would confirm their paper trails and the idea that they descend from the same Charles Stevens.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20176&stc=1

Looks like the tool isn't recognizing any closer link between 212697 and 312416 because they don't have any STR mutations in common or SNPs like PF5064. The Big Y for 212697 should definitely help there.

In the meantime, if the genealogy research says that 212697 and 312416 have a common MDKA then you can specify that through the /GENDATA section of the input file, so you'd include an additional two lines like this:

/GENDATA
CharlesStevens (CharlesStevensf212697+ CharlesStevensf312416+)

If you want to see what the tree looks like with them having a common MDKA. It will probably put 212697 under PF5064 then as a prediction.

Is Obadiah Stevens older or younger than Charles? One warning about the /GENDATA section is that (unlike SNPs), if a kit is not listed then it's assumed NOT to be a descendant of that ancestor. So the lines above would exclude 326490 from being under Charles. If Obadiah is a possible descendant of Charles himself, then just put the line as

/GENDATA
CharlesStevens (CharlesStevensf212697+ CharlesStevensf312416+ ObadiahStevensf326490?)

which would indicate that all three kits are known or possible descendants of Charles.

rms2
12-03-2017, 12:43 AM
Looks like the tool isn't recognizing any closer link between 212697 and 312416 because they don't have any STR mutations in common or SNPs like PF5064. The Big Y for 212697 should definitely help there.

In the meantime, if the genealogy research says that 212697 and 312416 have a common MDKA then you can specify that through the /GENDATA section of the input file, so you'd include an additional two lines like this:

/GENDATA
CharlesStevens (CharlesStevensf212697+ CharlesStevensf312416+)

If you want to see what the tree looks like with them having a common MDKA. It will probably put 212697 under PF5064 then as a prediction.

Is Obadiah Stevens older or younger than Charles? One warning about the /GENDATA section is that (unlike SNPs), if a kit is not listed then it's assumed NOT to be a descendant of that ancestor. So the lines above would exclude 326490 from being under Charles. If Obadiah is a possible descendant of Charles himself, then just put the line as

/GENDATA
CharlesStevens (CharlesStevensf212697+ CharlesStevensf312416+ ObadiahStevensf326490?)

which would indicate that all three kits are known or possible descendants of Charles.

Obadiah was a contemporary of Charles. Obadiah was born in 1787, and Charles was born about 1790, both in Fayette Co., PA.

There was an older Charles Stevens who could have been their common ancestor.

rms2
12-09-2017, 02:02 PM
Recently a man with the surname Jackson popped up as a 65/67 match for several of us Stephens/Stevens and a 64/67 match for several others. He joined the R1b-41-1123 Project and emailed me. He said that, due to the mysterious circumstances of his y-dna great grandfather's birth and death, he believes his great grandfather was probably a Stephens/Stevens in his y-dna line. I thought, nah, probably not, but recommended he order the test for the SNP FGC36974, which thus far has only shown up in men with our surname.

Well, he ordered FGC36974, and just a few days ago he came back derived for it. I was really surprised. Fortunately, he seems thrilled about it and says he thinks this news will be the information that will help him get beyond his genealogical brick wall.

Welcome to the Stephens/Stevens brick wall!

There is another guy in our project with yet another surname (not Jackson) who has three exact 37-marker matches to Stephens/Stevens men and 36/37 matches to most of the rest. I just emailed him yesterday and asked him to order FGC36974, too. I haven't heard back from him. He tested DF41+ a few years ago but overall has not been very active.

I know it is possible that FGC36974 is broader than just the Stephens/Stevens clan, but until now it has not turned up in anyone else in our haplotype cluster, including fairly close 111-marker matches who have tested positive for BY166/BY160, which is just upstream of it under Y8426.

rms2
01-10-2018, 06:26 PM
Kit 208061, Stephens, got his Big Y results yesterday. He is a 107/111 str match for me. His was one of the two sets of Stephens/Stevens Big Y results from our group we were still waiting on. There is still one to go from the first week of last August.

FTDNA has his terminal SNP currently listed as FGC36974, which is universal for our group of Stephens/Stevens thus far. 208061's daughter, who manages the kit, has submitted his VCF file to Alex Williamson. We'd like to get his BAM file to YFull, but we're having to wait until FTDNA starts releasing BAM files again.

rms2
01-13-2018, 07:48 PM
A couple of days ago I got the sad news that one of my closest y-dna str matches (107/111) passed away at the age of 76. God rest his soul. He was a Church of Christ minister and an accomplished musician who traveled from church to church playing and singing gospel music. He was Big Y tested and one of the two men who had the terminal SNP PF5064 under FGC36974.

Atque vale, frater!

JMcB
01-13-2018, 07:56 PM
A couple of days ago I got the sad news that one of my closest y-dna str matches (107/111) passed away at the age of 76. God rest his soul. He was a Church of Christ minister and an accomplished musician who traveled from church to church playing and singing gospel music. He was Big Y tested and one of the two men who had the terminal SNP PF5064 under FGC36974.

Atque vale, frater!

My condolences.

Eternal rest, grant unto him O Lord
and let perpetual light shine upon him.

May he rest in peace

rms2
01-14-2018, 09:55 PM
A couple of days ago I got the sad news that one of my closest y-dna str matches (107/111) passed away at the age of 76. God rest his soul. He was a Church of Christ minister and an accomplished musician who traveled from church to church playing and singing gospel music. He was Big Y tested and one of the two men who had the terminal SNP PF5064 under FGC36974.

Atque vale, frater!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RDXhJp0W0ku2w&time_continue=226&v=XhJp0W0ku2w

Please, someone post this for me when I pass on. It would be a tremendous honor, not that I deserve it.

JMcB
01-15-2018, 06:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RDXhJp0W0ku2w&time_continue=226&v=XhJp0W0ku2w

Please, someone post this for me when I pass on. It would be a tremendous honor, not that I deserve it.

Hopefully, I’ll go before you but if not, I’ll try to remember.

rms2
01-20-2018, 12:53 AM
The last Big Y result we were waiting on, the one for kit 212967, finally came in yesterday (or the late evening before). It was derived for PF5064 below FGC36974, which terminal SNP it shares with kits 312416 and 333340. 212967 and 312416 had claimed the same mrca, Charles Stevens, born about 1789 in Pennsylvania, but a little bit of doubt had been cast on that because the two were four apart at 111 STR markers. The Big Y results apparently confirm what the STRs could not, i.e., that their ancestor Charles was the one and same Charles.

So, apparently all our Stephens/Stevens group of matches share a mrca born about 1650, with three branches below that. Here is a SAPP tool run showing how things have panned out thus far.

20922

rms2
01-20-2018, 03:31 PM
It's too bad FTDNA isn't releasing BAM files these days. It's hampering the effort to have YFull analyze the results of the group on the right of the SAPP tree above and find out whether any of them share a SNP downstream of FGC36974.

rms2
01-21-2018, 03:37 AM
The last Big Y result we were waiting on, the one for kit 212967, finally came in yesterday (or the late evening before). It was derived for PF5064 below FGC36974, which terminal SNP it shares with kits 312416 and 333340.

Error. 333340 is not PF5064+. It is kit 326490 that is also PF5064+.

Kits 212967, 312416 and 326490 are derived for PF5064.

rms2
01-27-2018, 05:48 PM
Thus far, FTDNA does not list PF5064 as the terminal SNP for kits 212967, 312416 and 326490, so I emailed FTDNA about getting that straightened out.

rms2
02-17-2018, 12:40 AM
Thus far, FTDNA does not list PF5064 as the terminal SNP for kits 212967, 312416 and 326490, so I emailed FTDNA about getting that straightened out.

FTDNA fixed that a day or two ago. Now kits 212967, 312416 and 326490 show up as R-PF5064.

rms2
03-30-2018, 09:20 PM
I created a little phylogenetic tree graphic for my Stephens/Stevens bunch based on the current state of Big Y test results and analysis. It may be a little busy, but I like it. B)

So far, eight of us have tested.

22401

spruithean
03-31-2018, 09:55 PM
Nice! Making these sorts of graphics certainly helps one understand the way each family group fits in. That's certainly something that every Big Y project can benefit from.

rms2
03-31-2018, 10:16 PM
Nice! Making these sorts of graphics certainly helps one understand the way each family group fits in. That's certainly something that every Big Y project can benefit from.

Thanks. I enjoy playing around with it, and you're right, it certainly helps to understand the different branches descended from the same immigrant ancestor.

rms2
03-31-2018, 11:17 PM
I get on here and argue about the Indo-Europeans and this, that, and the other thing, but I am really much more interested in my own personal family genetic genealogy. It's just that progress on that front is usually pretty slow and comes in fits and starts. I've learned a lot, but it has taken since spring of 2006 to learn it.

JMcB
04-01-2018, 12:15 AM
I get on here and argue about the Indo-Europeans and this, that, and the other thing, but I am really much more interested in my own personal family genetic genealogy. It's just that progress on that front is usually pretty slow and comes in fits and starts. I've learned a lot, but it has taken since spring of 2006 to learn it.

I enjoy your debates, they’re usually very informative and you state your case well and you’re right, sometime progress is slow in the other arena and we find ourselves waiting & waiting & waiting. I’m currently waiting for YFull to update their tree, so I can see how they’re going to split the branch I’m in and it seems like it’s taking forever.

spruithean
04-01-2018, 12:41 AM
I get on here and argue about the Indo-Europeans and this, that, and the other thing, but I am really much more interested in my own personal family genetic genealogy. It's just that progress on that front is usually pretty slow and comes in fits and starts. I've learned a lot, but it has taken since spring of 2006 to learn it.

Same thing here. I'm certainly much more interested in my own genealogical relevant ancestors, but since that moves far slower than the other topics as you say, well... we end up discussing those far larger topics more heavily.

Only recently I discovered a new exact match on FTDNA whose surname is similar to mine, only it is missing the patronymic prefix and their roots are across the water (Ulster and SW Scotland) from my ancestors likely place of birth. It has taken since about 2007 for a result like this!

slievenamon
04-01-2018, 05:43 AM
Your graphic is well done and informative. A member of our Project recently asked for a graphic to better understand the five new SNPs downstream of our current terminal SNP. Thought his idea was brilliant, as is yours! May I borrow from you?

rms2
04-01-2018, 11:59 AM
Your graphic is well done and informative. A member of our Project recently asked for a graphic to better understand the five new SNPs downstream of our current terminal SNP. Thought his idea was brilliant, as is yours! May I borrow from you?

Sure. I just used Paint, cutting and pasting from one Paint screen to the next and jockeying things around.

Finn
04-01-2018, 12:41 PM
@Rms2 I this your family background?
http://www.bergergirls.com/histories/EmoryStevens.pdf
Nice read!!!

rms2
04-01-2018, 12:46 PM
@Rms2 I this your family background?
http://www.bergergirls.com/histories/EmoryStevens.pdf
Nice read!!!

I saw that some years ago. No, it's not my bunch. Unfortunately, Stevens is a somewhat common surname.

rms2
04-08-2018, 03:44 PM
Not that very many people other than I care, but I gussied up my phylogenetic tree to my taste a bit, filling up some of the empty white parts.

22555

I wonder if I could have that made into a poster and frame it. Soon as I do that, though, I'm sure some new SNP's will be found, rendering my tree antiquated and in need of an update.

rms2
04-21-2018, 07:53 PM
Okay, here I think is the final version of my y-dna phylogenetic graphic for now, until new and better information turns up.

22725

rms2
04-28-2018, 08:26 PM
Just recruited a likely match with my surname. He shares a y-dna ancestor with another of my matches who spells the surname with a ph (which I think was the original spelling anyway). Got him in on a 37-marker test while FTDNA's sale is still on (it ends tonight).

This started as an Ancestry autosomal dna match.

Good stuff! :beerchug:

rms2
04-29-2018, 12:06 PM
Just recruited a likely match with my surname. He shares a y-dna ancestor with another of my matches who spells the surname with a ph (which I think was the original spelling anyway). Got him in on a 37-marker test while FTDNA's sale is still on (it ends tonight).

This started as an Ancestry autosomal dna match.

Good stuff! :beerchug:

BTW, this gentleman was born and raised in Frederick County, Maryland, which is where his most distant known y-dna ancestor was born about 1769. He's a scion of a branch of the family that was unusual in that it stayed put in one place more than a few years.

I suspect we are related to the rather large Stevens/Stephens bunch from Talbot County, Maryland, but I have not been able to locate one of them to test yet.

rms2
04-30-2018, 06:39 PM
My new recruit - well, originally my Stephens match's recruit - said something interesting. He said his family has an oral tradition that the immigrant ancestor came from Wales. That fits everything we have found thus far, but it was a pleasant surprise, since none of the rest of us can say that. My own family, for example, has no tradition about an immigrant ancestor. This is significant, especially since this man comes from a branch of the family that has stayed in the same place at least since about the mid-18th century.

Unfortunately, his family's oral tradition does not include the immigrant's first name nor what region of Wales he came from.

rms2
05-05-2018, 06:22 PM
Kit 850783, my new recruit, said he got his FTDNA kit yesterday and will mail it back to FTDNA today.

I'm looking forward to his results.

fostert
05-05-2018, 08:54 PM
Kit 850783, my new recruit, said he got his FTDNA kit yesterday and will mail it back to FTDNA today.

I'm looking forward to his results.

Congratulations! It is sometimes tough to engage DNA matches, let alone make contact with them. Sadly, a half-sister to my dad popped up on Ancestry a few weeks ago. She is not responding to messages on Ancestry's stupid messaging system Sigh - chance of a lifetime.

rms2
05-06-2018, 10:40 AM
Congratulations! It is sometimes tough to engage DNA matches, let alone make contact with them. Sadly, a half-sister to my dad popped up on Ancestry a few weeks ago. She is not responding to messages on Ancestry's stupid messaging system Sigh - chance of a lifetime.

I have had similar experiences. For example, a close match at Ancestry on my mother's side, and with her last name, has some brothers who could, at long last, reveal my maternal grandfather's y-dna haplogroup, but they're just not interested. I even offered to pay for the testing, but they're not interested.

rms2
06-08-2018, 10:50 PM
Kit 850783, my new recruit, said he got his FTDNA kit yesterday and will mail it back to FTDNA today.

I'm looking forward to his results.

That one didn't work out: not a match, not even in the same y-dna haplogroup. Apparently I was wrong, too, about the Ancestry match. He did not actually have an Ancestry match with my Stephens y-dna match. The two just had some shared Ancestry matches and did not match each other.

Too bad.