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View Full Version : How common is trace Iberian for English testers.



palacista
04-11-2017, 01:54 PM
My results show 3% Iberian which may or may not mean a lot. I have noticed that a a quarter of near matches also have trace Iberian but I can't tell if this common amonst the (Northern) English population or just showing up because the matches share personal ancestry.

Is there a way of finding the general level of this or any other trace ancestry in the population of a region?

evon
04-11-2017, 02:29 PM
I have noted this among British testers in general, notably via FTDNA and DNA.Land, but I suspect it is also the case for Ancestry.. I have 10% of Iberian myself, but I have not been able to confidently track down the source within my family tree, although I have some theories..

04-11-2017, 03:10 PM
Not got AncestryDNA, but have done 23andme, and LivingDNA, dont get anything on them.
However I have uploaded the raw data to dnaland, and wegene, and get small indication of Spanish on them, but not known in tree.

JFWinstone
04-11-2017, 03:28 PM
I have 3% Ancestry DNA and 0.6% 23andme

A Norfolk L-M20
04-11-2017, 03:30 PM
On 23andme i found that 16 out of 18 English testers received a trace of South European.

Stephen1986
04-11-2017, 05:07 PM
On Ancestry I have <0.1% Iberian, but with a range of 0-4%. On MyOrigins I have <0.2% Iberia.

On 23andMe, my brother has 0.2% Iberian and 1.0% Broadly Southern European.

Amerijoe
04-11-2017, 05:36 PM
Not got AncestryDNA, but have done 23andme, and LivingDNA, dont get anything on them.
However I have uploaded the raw data to dnaland, and wegene, and get small indication of Spanish on them, but not known in tree.

Here is a press release from June of last year. It has values regarding Iberian ancestry in Wales as well as England. :) Joe

https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/international/press-releases/DNA-of-the-nation-revealedand-were-not-as-British-as-we-think

Jessie
04-12-2017, 04:03 AM
It would be interesting if they did a breakdown for Germans, Scandinavians, Italians and other groups. There is a lot of crossover of categories which I don't think the average tester understands. They tend to take their Ancestry Composition too literally not understanding what makes up an average Englishman for example.

AnnieD
04-12-2017, 04:48 AM
Would the Iberian category on the Gedmatch Eurogenes K36 work for this purpose? I've read that it is designed to function as a chromosome tool rather than an ethnicity indicator. However, folks continue to post their results with it on various threads. Perhaps it can be an indicator for older (?) ancestral components by population category.

I've read theories on this forum that the English tend to show higher Neolithic farmer component that other British populations. On the Gedmatch calculators that I've checked the calculator spreadsheets for, the English tend to score a little lower on the primary N. Euro component and higher on Med or similar component. However, I have not made a diligent study of it.

Thus far, I've scored in the SE English range of the Eurogenes K13 & K15 in single mode so I tend to pay more attention to what English score. I am an American of known partial Scottish descent plus at least a little European continental, so other factors could pull my scores down from typical Scottish, for example. On Commercial DNA tests, I get 0-2% S. Euro but no "Iberian' category. On Eurogenes K36, I get higher than typical Iberian for British. On DNA.Land, I get around 72-78% NW Euro & 13-14% SW Euro (varied with different run). Go figure! May be an American of British diaspora plus unknown ancestries conundrum. ;)

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-12-2017, 06:30 AM
I'm mostly Welsh and some English ancestry and I get Basque/Iberian or similar quite often. In fact it was the only Non-British European I had in my LivingDNA results. People tend to be very sceptical when you suggest (non-recent) ancestral links between Wales and Northern Spain, but I'm not so sure, maybe there was a reason why the Romans described the Silures as being similar to Iberians. :) John

Kiln
04-12-2017, 10:40 AM
11% Iberian here.

No known Iberian ancestry.

palacista
04-16-2017, 08:53 AM
About half of my ancestry comes from Cumberland/Westmoreland, areas that are similar to Wales in genetics. so the trace Iberian is probably just background history.

It would be very interesting to be able to plot trace areas on a map of Britain.

sktibo
04-25-2017, 03:36 AM
Would the Iberian category on the Gedmatch Eurogenes K36 work for this purpose? I've read that it is designed to function as a chromosome tool rather than an ethnicity indicator. However, folks continue to post their results with it on various threads. Perhaps it can be an indicator for older (?) ancestral components by population category.

I've read theories on this forum that the English tend to show higher Neolithic farmer component that other British populations. On the Gedmatch calculators that I've checked the calculator spreadsheets for, the English tend to score a little lower on the primary N. Euro component and higher on Med or similar component. However, I have not made a diligent study of it.

Thus far, I've scored in the SE English range of the Eurogenes K13 & K15 in single mode so I tend to pay more attention to what English score. I am an American of known partial Scottish descent plus at least a little European continental, so other factors could pull my scores down from typical Scottish, for example. On Commercial DNA tests, I get 0-2% S. Euro but no "Iberian' category. On Eurogenes K36, I get higher than typical Iberian for British. On DNA.Land, I get around 72-78% NW Euro & 13-14% SW Euro (varied with different run). Go figure! May be an American of British diaspora plus unknown ancestries conundrum. ;)

I'm going to agree that from what I've seen too, the English usually get the higher South European or Neolithic scores when compared to the other Isles nations. I've started to compile a K13 datasheet from people on here, and what I have so far is:

People with most of their ancestry from England:
West Med: 12.92 - 18.22 East Med: 0 - 3.23
All known ancestry from England:
West Med: 11.2 - 15.65 East Med: 0 - 8.03
People with most of their ancestry from Wales:
West Med: 11.86 - 13.13 East Med: 0 - 4.91
All known ancestry from Ireland:
West Med: 9.81 - 15.45 East Med: 0 - 3.27
One Half Scottish sample:
West Med: 10.83. East Med: 3.57.

It's not exactly comprehensive as I have more samples from England than the other regions. The other issues is for those listed as "mostly" I often don't know what the other ethnic factors are. Regardless, I hope it's of some use despite being rather incomplete at the time being.

JMcB
04-25-2017, 03:31 PM
My ancestry is primarily from the British Isles and by my reckoning it should break down to approximately 87 % British Isles, 6.25 % Italian and 6.25 % German. As of yet, I have no Ancestry results but Living DNA has me as 92.3% British Isles and FTDNA as 77% British Isles. So far there are no Iberian calls.

My Origins used to have me as 19% Southern European but they've now corrected that to what I think is a more accurate reading. Although, I could quibbled with their numbers but that applies to Living DNA also. However, in fairness to both of them, the numbers are fairly close and from what I know, I can make the adjustments.

LIving DNA
15431

Old My Origins
15432

New My Origins
15433


Edit: I should also add that according to my calculations my British Isles breakdown should be aporoximately : 43.75% English 29.687% Scots 12.5% Irish 6.25% German
6.25% Italian 1.563% French

Living DNA - with adjustments - gives me a reading that skews towards the English (50.6%) at what appears to be the expense of the Scottish 22.1% & the Irish 5%. However, it also has me listed as having 8.3% unassigned British Isles and if all of that went to the Scots & Irish portions, that would be quite reasonable.

Dewsloth
04-25-2017, 04:18 PM
For someone with no known ancestral link, Dad gets a lot in K36; whereas Mom gets trace Basque and no Iberian:

Dad (German, British Isles, Ashkenazi):

Basque 2.96
Central_Euro 4.40
East_Balkan 3.73
East_Central_Euro 8.11
East_Med 3.40
Eastern_Euro 0.59
Fennoscandian 7.95
French 8.00
Iberian 12.86
Italian 14.33
North_African 0.41
North_Atlantic 11.76
North_Caucasian 3.05
North_Sea 14.59
West_Caucasian 1.47
West_Med 2.38


Mom (Lebanese Christian w some Armenian)

Arabian 9.86
Armenian 9.04
Basque 0.73
Central_Euro 0.47
East_Med 31.51
Iberian -
Italian 7.31
Near_Eastern 22.50
North_African 1.52
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 9.49
North_Sea -
South_Central_Asian 0.78
West_Caucasian 2.98
West_Med 3.80

AnnieD
04-26-2017, 05:32 AM
It's not exactly comprehensive as I have more samples from England than the other regions. The other issues is for those listed as "mostly" I often don't know what the other ethnic factors are. Regardless, I hope it's of some use despite being rather incomplete at the time being.

You and Norfolk have generated a lot of good data on the British Isles genetics. I hope that these commercial DNA co. give you a commission! ;)

sktibo
04-26-2017, 06:28 AM
You and Norfolk have generated a lot of good data on the British Isles genetics. I hope that these commercial DNA co. give you a commission! ;)

Thank you Annie! That's very kind of you to say

A Norfolk L-M20
04-26-2017, 11:53 AM
The thing about autosomal DNA tests, is that their percentages are not really ancestry. They simply indicate what segments resemble those found in other present day populations, as determined by small reference data sets, within geographical boundaries, set by modern people, that may have had little meaning to populations​ in the past.

Why the English tend to have slightly more Neolithic Farmer / Southern European flavour than other northern European populations is a mystery, that conventional archaeology and history doesn't answer.

I usually suggest that the Channel is narrow, and that there has always been movement from the South, during for example, the Norman / Medieval, the Roman, and quite likely during prehistory.

The alternative is that some past populations have survived well or have moved into South East Britain, that had that little extra Neolithic ancestry.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-26-2017, 12:06 PM
Funny enough I was watching an item on the local news this morning (which is probably completely irrelevant :)), but they have discovered the medieval ship excavated from the river in Newport ( South Wales) was built from wood felled in the Basque Country and they estimate the trees were felled around 1450. It seems quite possible to me than even during earlier times there would have been trade connections (and maybe population movement?) from the North of Spain, the North West coast of France up into the West of Britain. John

GMan71
04-26-2017, 12:07 PM
I have some Iberian too. The latest FTDNA My Origins shows me as 5% Iberian and 5% SE Europe - no known ancestry from there. My father (Swedish/NE German/SW English background) who has also tested doesn't have either of those 2 so I guess I get it from my mothers side who are from the South Wales/England border area.

Some of the Gedmatch oracles show some spanish - ie Eurogenes K13 has a number of results showing roughly 70/30 mix of North Swedish /Spanish.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-26-2017, 12:08 PM
Thank you Annie! That's very kind of you to say

Much appreciated by us all. :) John

Amerijoe
04-26-2017, 12:59 PM
I'm going to agree that from what I've seen too, the English usually get the higher South European or Neolithic scores when compared to the other Isles nations. I've started to compile a K13 datasheet from people on here, and what I have so far is:

People with most of their ancestry from England:
West Med: 12.92 - 18.22 East Med: 0 - 3.23
All known ancestry from England:
West Med: 11.2 - 15.65 East Med: 0 - 8.03
People with most of their ancestry from Wales:
West Med: 11.86 - 13.13 East Med: 0 - 4.91
All known ancestry from Ireland:
West Med: 9.81 - 15.45 East Med: 0 - 3.27
One Half Scottish sample:
West Med: 10.83. East Med: 3.57.

It's not exactly comprehensive as I have more samples from England than the other regions. The other issues is for those listed as "mostly" I often don't know what the other ethnic factors are. Regardless, I hope it's of some use despite being rather incomplete at the time being.

With your enthusiasm and your youthful zeal for knowledge, I would present you for a grant to continue your research full time. Keep up the good work. Since, I am surmised to be a halfer, Scots/Irish here is my breakdown.

West Med. 11.54, East Med. 3.54

Also, I don't know precisely how the Iberian fits into my genetic makeup. K46 Iberian 12.85. :) Joe

JerryS.
04-26-2017, 01:46 PM
there is a reason that there are so many calculating models; its because flaws are found in each one, hence the need for a new and improved version that also will be flawed....

JMcB
04-26-2017, 02:43 PM
I'm going to agree that from what I've seen too, the English usually get the higher South European or Neolithic scores when compared to the other Isles nations. I've started to compile a K13 datasheet from people on here, and what I have so far is:

People with most of their ancestry from England:
West Med: 12.92 - 18.22 East Med: 0 - 3.23
All known ancestry from England:
West Med: 11.2 - 15.65 East Med: 0 - 8.03
People with most of their ancestry from Wales:
West Med: 11.86 - 13.13 East Med: 0 - 4.91
All known ancestry from Ireland:
West Med: 9.81 - 15.45 East Med: 0 - 3.27
One Half Scottish sample:
West Med: 10.83. East Med: 3.57.

It's not exactly comprehensive as I have more samples from England than the other regions. The other issues is for those listed as "mostly" I often don't know what the other ethnic factors are. Regardless, I hope it's of some use despite being rather incomplete at the time being.

Hello sktibo,

My apologies, I should've put my British Isles breakdown in my previous post. However, if you're interested I have edited that post to include it. (See #14)

JerryS.
04-26-2017, 03:58 PM
what it looks like is that the Roman soldiers had so much slave sex with the conquered English that it forever changed their DNA? is that what this is pointing to?

evon
04-26-2017, 04:40 PM
I'm going to agree that from what I've seen too, the English usually get the higher South European or Neolithic scores when compared to the other Isles nations. I've started to compile a K13 datasheet from people on here, and what I have so far is:

People with most of their ancestry from England:
West Med: 12.92 - 18.22 East Med: 0 - 3.23
All known ancestry from England:
West Med: 11.2 - 15.65 East Med: 0 - 8.03
People with most of their ancestry from Wales:
West Med: 11.86 - 13.13 East Med: 0 - 4.91
All known ancestry from Ireland:
West Med: 9.81 - 15.45 East Med: 0 - 3.27
One Half Scottish sample:
West Med: 10.83. East Med: 3.57.





Me (western Norway):
West_Med 12.09
East_Med 2.28

Spreadsheet Norwegian average (I am likely part of the Norway sample):
west_Med: 9.91
east_Med: 1.73

I am looking forward to Living DNA, I hope they can give me some more answers...

A Norfolk L-M20
04-26-2017, 04:41 PM
what it looks like is that the Roman soldiers had so much slave sex with the conquered English that it forever changed their DNA? is that what this is pointing to?

Not quite that simple, because if that was the case, then we would share the Y haplogroups with them. In addition, there were no English here then (although there is a small school of thought that disagrees), and the Roman military stationed across the British Isles were from all around the Empire, including from the Middle East.

We actually have recently detected a couple of events where male haplogroups significantly changed in this part of Europe, one during the Early Bronze Age, and the period that followed the collapse of Roman Britain. However, so far studies do not see any impact from the Roman period on British DNA.

JerryS.
04-26-2017, 08:54 PM
how can I tell if I have or share any Y haplogroup? I did an Ancestry DNA test and uploaded the raw data to GEDmatch.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-27-2017, 06:02 AM
how can I tell if I have or share any Y haplogroup? I did an Ancestry DNA test and uploaded the raw data to GEDmatch.

I think maybe you would be better off doing a Y test but others know more. Don't know much about "Ancestry" but I've just ordered a 67 marker Y test with Family Tree DNA. They have a sale on which ends today. John