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alhan
04-11-2017, 02:24 PM
I have written in a different post about my question. However, this might deserve a different thread.

My ancestors from my mother side is known to have a Turkish origin, this is clear.

And ancestors from my father side are told to be migrated from Caucasia and have Adyghe ethnicity. The migration that I am referring is less than 200 years.

My understanding is that all these tests mentioned here are not perfect tools to tell about ethnicity. Especially with only a few generations past.

However, I wonder if that is possible. Can I confirm the origin of Adyghe in my ancestory.

If I was to be tested it is obvious that I will have strong Minor Asia content. Since Turkish and Adyghe ethnicity are so close, which test would be best to answer my questions considering there is a limited number of samples from this part of the world.

Reading about the companies and comparing in between them, I tend to purchase Living DNA tests. Would it be a good choice? Would one offer a better solution to my question?

Afshar
04-11-2017, 04:11 PM
Multiple gedmatch calculators will give a good indialcation. Why dont you test your father first?

alhan
04-11-2017, 07:08 PM
I thought some of the tests are related to mother line. Testing my father would ignore my mother line all together. Right??

What is the basis of your suggestion?

alhan
04-11-2017, 07:11 PM
Multiple gedmatch calculators will give a good indialcation.

Does that mean I can choose any of the companies and their raw data could be used gedmatch calculators?

If that is the case, what would be the cheapest option? Thanks for the suggestions by the way.

Abd.H
04-11-2017, 07:20 PM
I think The best way to detect your ancestral origin from your father side is to have Y dna test

Afshar
04-11-2017, 07:43 PM
Does that mean I can choose any of the companies and their raw data could be used gedmatch calculators?

If that is the case, what would be the cheapest option? Thanks for the suggestions by the way.

Yes exactly. I think ftdna is the way to go, especially for ydna.

eolien
04-11-2017, 08:59 PM
yes you can confirm adyghe ancestry or at least something close to it. my father-in-law is of adyghe origin. his test result puts him as closest to abkhaz or georgian. his caucasian component is much higher than the turks. to discover his adyghe origin however you dont need a genetic test . normally adyghe people speak an adyghe dialect and have tribal/clan associations.

alhan
04-12-2017, 07:02 AM
however you dont need a genetic test . normally adyghe people speak an adyghe dialect and have tribal/clan associations.

Thank you very much for the answer. This is my dilemma actually, As you correctly stated "normally adyghe people speak an adyghe dialect and have tribal/clan associations". We don't have any of this.

Our understanding is that they migrated from Caucasia around 1850, that matches with the general concept of "1864 migration from Caucasia to Anatolia"; and they established a village in Malatya named Alhanuşağı, after their name "Alhan".

But the Adyghe dialect is not spoken in the village, not even a word. The explanation for this is that "they needed to hide their ethnicity!". I know that many Caucasion origined people lived in Anatolia peacefully. If they weren't so certain about being "Çerkes", I would just ignore what they are saying.

That's the reasoning beyond my Genetic test queries:) This way I can indirectly confirm their claim


yes you can confirm adyghe ancestry or at least something close to it. my father-in-law is of adyghe origin. his test result puts him as closest to abkhaz or georgian. his caucasian component is much higher than the turks.

Can you elaborate more on "caucasian component"? Are we talking about G2 haplogroup? If it is not too much trouble can you share his test results?:angel:

Anabasis
04-12-2017, 06:00 PM
Best way of detecting your Adygie ancestry is YDNA test as far as your pathernal side suppose to come from Adygie. In FTDNA 37 Marker test would be good for begining.

Kulin
04-12-2017, 06:07 PM
I've heard that "Cherkez" was the generic name for all Caucasian migrants to Turkey. You wouldn't necessarily be Circassian if you have no tribal affiliations that you know about, but you could be something else like Ossete/Alan, or even Caucasian Turkic people such as Balkars or Kumyk etc.

alhan
04-13-2017, 06:14 AM
Best way of detecting your Adygie ancestry is YDNA test as far as your pathernal side suppose to come from Adygie. In FTDNA 37 Marker test would be good for begining.

Ok. It is best to start with FTDNA 37. I see that it's 169 $ for YDNA (Y37 markers) and 12.95$ for shipping. I've read in several places that they sometime offer coupons for discount. Would it be a good idea to wait for a discount? Is it likely? Because it's more than 180 $:behindsofa:

alhan
04-13-2017, 06:22 AM
I've heard that "Cherkez" was the generic name for all Caucasian migrants to Turkey. You wouldn't necessarily be Circassian if you have no tribal affiliations that you know about, but you could be something else like Ossete/Alan, or even Caucasian Turkic people such as Balkars or Kumyk etc.

You are right about the first part. As far as I know Adyghe people do not call themselves "Cherkesian". However, being Ossete/Alan, Balkar or Kumyk would be total question mark.

I've read a lot on this, and I've seen that there are two towns Alhan-kala and Alhan-yurt close to Chechnya's capital Grozny.

Possibilities are endless. May be YDNA test will somehow give some clues, or everything will be even more ambigous. :\

Sangarius
04-13-2017, 06:52 AM
Ok. It is best to start with FTDNA 37. I see that it's 169 $ for YDNA (Y37 markers) and 12.95$ for shipping. I've read in several places that they sometime offer coupons for discount. Would it be a good idea to wait for a discount? Is it likely? Because it's more than 180 $:behindsofa:

I would recommend you to start with the family finder test, especially if you are currently financially constrained. It's only 79$ and will already tell you about possible Caucasian ancestry. It also establishes your DNA sample at FTDNAs database, so you can order later on additional tests when there is a sale.

There is also this thread (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10272-FamilyFinder-58-2-USD-!!!) were a user claims you can order the family finder test for only 58USD incl. shipping through groupon.

alhan
04-13-2017, 07:27 AM
I would recommend you to start with the family finder test, especially if you are currently financially constrained. It's only 79$ and will already tell you about possible Caucasian ancestry. It also establishes your DNA sample at FTDNAs database, so you can order later on additional tests when there is a sale.

There is also this thread (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10272-FamilyFinder-58-2-USD-!!!) were a user claims you can order the family finder test for only 58USD incl. shipping through groupon.

Thank you for the suggestion. Yes, I don't want to spent too much. But, at the same time I don't want to have FamilyFinder tested and than have to purchase YDNA test again to be more specific.

As far as I understand FamilyFinder is a autosomal test which covers both parents. In my case the question mark is on the father side. So, having both parents might add another level of ambiguity to results, don't you think?

Afshar
04-13-2017, 07:52 AM
Be aware that ydna testing usually requires more spending if there is a demand for more specificity (bigY is 575$), so even buying Y12 will lead to more spending in the future. If your budget is low stick with Family finder.

alhan
04-13-2017, 08:55 AM
Be aware that ydna testing usually requires more spending if there is a demand for more specificity (bigY is 575$), so even buying Y12 will lead to more spending in the future. If your budget is low stick with Family finder.

I've probably read about 1000 posts in the forum. The problem that I'm having now is that I see lots of results, but I cannot differ one from another. I don't know which calculator result belong to which company's test.

I understand there are calculators using input from different companies.

If I stick with Autosomal test and family finder can I still use all the calculators?
I am guessing, I will not be able to use calculators "using yDNA". What will I be missing?

My concern is that the Family Finder's Ethnic Makeup composition is not what I'm looking for. In the sample they put in the website Ethnic Makeup is something like this
- European 47%
- New World 31%
- African 11%
- East Asian 7%

In my humble opinion this result will not worth a penny. It will not worth trouble.

The problem I'm facing with all the companies, that they do not offer clear understanding what I will have after I purchase their specific product.
A simple sample PDF file with one's results would be suffice. They just put a world map with some coloring and arrows.

I guess I need to scan through old posts, and try to understand what kind of results I can get having Family Finder. Thanks

Afshar
04-13-2017, 09:09 AM
I've probably read about 1000 posts in the forum. The problem that I'm having now is that I see lots of results, but I cannot differ one from another. I don't know which calculator result belong to which company's test.

I understand there are calculators using input from different companies.

If I stick with Autosomal test and family finder can I still use all the calculators?
I am guessing, I will not be able to use calculators "using yDNA". What will I be missing?

My concern is that the Family Finder's Ethnic Makeup composition is not what I'm looking for. In the sample they put in the website Ethnic Makeup is something like this
- European 47%
- New World 31%
- African 11%
- East Asian 7%

In my humble opinion this result will not worth a penny. It will not worth trouble.

The problem I'm facing with all the companies, that they do not offer clear understanding what I will have after I purchase their specific product.
A simple sample PDF file with one's results would be suffice. They just put a world map with some coloring and arrows.

I guess I need to scan through old posts, and try to understand what kind of results I can get having Family Finder. Thanks

That is true, if you have adyghe ancestry, you will get some elevated percentages of x component in calculator x, but you would still not know from which (grand)parent. But if you are going for ydna, you would have to be lucky if you can answer your question with the lowest marker test, which is y12 (60-70$)

alhan
04-13-2017, 09:27 AM
But if you are going for ydna, you would have to be lucky if you can answer your question with the lowest marker test, which is y12 (60-70$)

They do not offer Y12 on their website. The tests start with Y37 and 159 $:\

Afshar
04-13-2017, 09:32 AM
They do not offer Y12 on their website. The tests start with Y37 and 159 $:\

You can order it via projects only.

alhan
04-13-2017, 01:55 PM
Be aware that ydna testing usually requires more spending if there is a demand for more specificity (bigY is 575$), so even buying Y12 will lead to more spending in the future. If your budget is low stick with Family finder.

Dear Afshar, I was reading through posts of the Turkish members, it seems like some of the participants tried several companies during the course of the time. I ran through your posts and it seem like you've done both y37 and y67 both yDNA tests. Here are the results of your Population Sharing data for y37, I just post the ones with the ethnicity, as I intend to focus on that:


Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Turkish 4.59
2 Azeri 5.65
3 Kurdish 9.93
4 Georgian_Jewish 11.16
5 Armenian 11.19
6 Iranian 11.2
7 Kumyk 12.94
8 Assyrian 13.04
9 Turkmen 14.71
10 Iranian_Jewish 15.97
11 Kurdish_Jewish 16.02
12 Balkar 16.31
13 Adygei 16.44
14 Lebanese_Muslim 16.86
15 Kabardin 17.47
16 Georgian 17.67
17 Syrian 17.72
18 Ossetian 18.13
19 North_Ossetian 18.62
20 Abhkasian 19.45


And here your y67 results Using 1 population approximation with least square method:



Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turkish @ 4.992203
2 Azeri @ 8.107601
3 Georgian_Jewish @ 12.959738
4 Assyrian @ 13.567205
5 Kurdish @ 13.741706
6 Armenian @ 14.001295
7 Iranian @ 14.207490
8 Iranian_Jewish @ 15.988047
9 Lebanese_Muslim @ 16.116251
10 Kurdish_Jewish @ 16.446062
11 Turkmen @ 16.971987
12 Syrian @ 17.224928
13 Kumyk @ 18.814037
14 Cyprian @ 19.485874
15 Jordanian @ 21.682617
16 Lebanese_Druze @ 22.447197
17 Balkar @ 23.071480
18 Central_Greek @ 23.287775
19 Adygei @ 23.343811
20 Lebanese_Christian @ 23.657602


I'm trying to keep things simple, I have comments regarding these two version of y37 and y67. Please correct me if I misinterpret.

First of all, y67 more reliable because, there are more markers.
They both show that you are closer to Turkish and Azeri origin.
Both results are showing closer match of your yDNA results to Turkish and Azeri populations.

If I made these points correctly, here my questions;

- Do you think upgrade to y67 worths its value? Seeing these two results, I am thinking no need for an upgrade to y67, am I missing something? Any additional info that justifies y67 purchase on your behalf?

- How about autosomal tests like Family Finder. If I were to purchase FamilyFinder can I get the same kind of "population approximation" results using the raw data I will get from autosomal test. Or do I have to purchase yDNA to get "population approximation" results?

- Reading through your posts I understand that you get haplogroup identification like Q-M25 and subclades with your yDNA results.
Does Family Finder results give any haplogroup info? If it does so, is it possible to join to "projects" of those haplogroups and get some comparison and more clarification?

I am trying to use your experiences to avoid any regrets in the waiting period. And greatly appreciate your patient answers.

Last question, going back 3 years, if you were to purchase just one test, which one would you pick?

Afshar
04-13-2017, 05:19 PM
The results you posted are from autosomal tests. Ydna connects on an individual level, not on a population level, so you have to have matches with confirmed adyghe ancestry.

alhan
04-14-2017, 06:31 AM
The results you posted are from autosomal tests.
This is great. That means I can have Family Finder and still have those test results.

How about haplogroup and subclade information?
Does Family Finder has anything on haplogroup or subclade information?

eolien
04-28-2017, 04:56 PM
Dear Alhan, Y-chromosome test would not be very informative because at that level most of the subclades of the Caucasian people are not distinguishable from other Euroasians. None of the Caucasian groups are composed of a single Y-haplogroup. On the other hand family finder results are useful if the sample is NOT of mixed ethnic origins. In my opinion you should start with family finder of people with single origins.

Agamemnon
04-28-2017, 06:02 PM
Dear Alhan, Y-chromosome test would not be very informative because at that level most of the subclades of the Caucasian people are not distinguishable from other Euroasians. None of the Caucasian groups are composed of a single Y-haplogroup. On the other hand family finder results are useful if the sample is NOT of mixed ethnic origins. In my opinion you should start with family finder of people with single origins.

Wrong, there are several distinctly Caucasian Y-DNA lineages out there.

eolien
04-29-2017, 06:33 AM
Yes but you have to pay a lot to get to that level, no?

Agamemnon
04-29-2017, 04:51 PM
Yes but you have to pay a lot to get to that level, no?

Depends on the marker, take J1 for instance, we can pretty much tell whether you belong to a Caucasian branch with a simple 12 STR test.

alhan
05-04-2017, 07:26 AM
Depends on the marker, take J1 for instance, we can pretty much tell whether you belong to a Caucasian branch with a simple 12 STR test.

So far I was offered to take Family Finder path because of financial constraints.

From what you are saying I understand that I can tell if I am from a Caucasian branch even with a minimal 12 STR test.

Then again, I will not be able to say if I have Adyghe origin or Chechen or Azeri with Y12, probably I will need 37, 67 or even more to specify?

If it is this way, It is easier and cheaper to take the easy way out with a Autosomal test (Family Finder)??

alhan
05-04-2017, 09:04 AM
I would recommend you to start with the family finder test, especially if you are currently financially constrained. It's only 79$ and will already tell you about possible Caucasian ancestry. It also establishes your DNA sample at FTDNAs database, so you can order later on additional tests when there is a sale.

There is also this thread (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10272-FamilyFinder-58-2-USD-!!!) were a user claims you can order the family finder test for only 58USD incl. shipping through groupon.

I guess the questions are good and ok but I have to start somewhere. I started with Family Finder.
I've used a Groupon coupon referred in your post. Thanks:beerchug:

I paid 59$ + 13.95 $ = 72.95 $ in total. In case anyone wonders.

I got my account number and password in Family Tree DNA. Now I am reading about the projects. Thanks to everyone who answered my long questions B)

alhan
05-16-2017, 12:30 PM
I have the testing kit delivered in 11 days to Turkey.

In the package they send, they have an instruction for International Customers saying;
"Our kits qualify as parcels, not letters. Please ensure appropriate postage for a parcel is applied or your samples' delivery will be delayed"

What does that mean? What next? Should I send it via PTT? As a letter or parcel?
Any advice?

alhan
06-05-2017, 12:11 PM
It seem like I'm debating with myself. But it will be helpfull for those of whom have just started their geneology adventure.

I've sent my kit as a small package from Turkey with PTT on 18 th of May and it has been delivered to FTDNA in about 15 days.
I'm waiting for the batch number. They claim it will take 4-6 weeks to have some results. I guess at the end of July I will have some kind of results.

I am hoping to find a calculator that focuses more on Caucasia and Anatolia and gives meaningful results. I'm planning to run many of the calculators anyway; however, I will happily accept all suggestions regarding calculators.

I'm thinking of ordering a Y12 test afterwards in order to have my haplogroup info.

From what I've been reading I guess with the basic haplogroup info I might have some SNP's tested following Y12 test.

Though, I'm not very clear whether y37/y67 test will offer better value than having SNP tests at that point.

Your contributions/suggestions are most welcome, because I feel like I'm having a monologue:argue:

alhan
06-27-2017, 08:44 PM
Wish you all happy Ramadan.
I have got my Family Finder results back.

90% Middle Eastern (84% Asia Minor& 6% West Middle Eastern)

Central & South Asian 9%.

I've got 1% North&South American (probably just noise)

Nothing surprising here. It seems like typical Anatolian to me. Would like to hear any opinion though.

As I'm on vacation, I'm trying to read and write on Mobile phone now, I will post the map and everything when I have access my PC.

I have some questions. First one is about Caucasian background. Does Family Finder has Caucasion component under Middle East? If this is the case I score 0 percent Caucasian????

If there is no Caucasian classification under Middle East, is it under Asia Minor??

I'm a bit confused about matches.

I have only one 3rd cousin with a Turkish name.

Several 4th cousins; other than Turkish named cousins (may be 20 or more), four Armenian (two different family names) and one Arabic named cousin.

Armenian 4th cousins seem like they're from a region close to Lebanon. I'm guessing that is the West Middle East component in my Origins result.

Then again I also assume that we might be sharing one Grand Father/mother of 6th or 7th generation with Armenian cousins?
Am I assuming too much?
What are your opinions on this?

By the way since I don't have my PC with me I could not load the data to Gedmatch.

I'd be glad to hear your thoughts on this..

@Hamlet
06-28-2017, 08:59 AM
Your username caught my attention. Any chance that you're R1b1a1a2? I don't want to confuse you further but I think I might have some useful information.

You can actually eliminate the Adyghe option because you said their language isn't spoken by anyone in the whole village and no one has a clan name. That's because the village you mentioned isn't a diaspora settlement of these people. Since there's an official list of their villages, I can say they weren't settled in that city in general. There are few other options. I know Adyghe is the synonym of Circassian/Cherkess. But some other ethnic groups from Russia, such as Cumans, Ossetes and Chechens, also call themselves Circassian in Turkey. Maybe you were confused because of that but they don't have a village in your city either. You also said your relatives tell they can't speak that language because "they needed to hide their ethnicity." The whole village? People may prefer not to talk to their children in a language other than Turkish but hiding ethnic identity is something else. Only non-Muslims such as some Armenians, Greeks and Jews hid their identity there. This is the most interesting part because the North Caucasian diaspora and other Turkish people are very friendly to each other. Having this kind of ancestry is considered to be pleasant. A full-blooded one of them is genetically quite distinct from an average Anatolian Turk but if your father or your grandfather is already of mixed origin, Gedmatch calculators might not be useful to find out what you're looking for. Your Family Finder results don't reflect that ancestry. If you're really interested to know whether your direct paternal ancestors trace to Western Russia, you need to know about Y-DNA.

eolien
06-28-2017, 09:01 AM
first of all, congratulations for your results. I would suggest as a first step to transfer your data to gedmatch (which is easy and free BTW). There you will have more detailed tools to look your DNA population components and have more matches (because there are also samples from other companies).
Almost the lebanon armenians originate from Anatolia after 1915, usually they are survivors from southern part of Anatolia like Cilicia, Marash, Antep. Depending the biggest common regions of DNA in cM, one could say if the relationship is recent or very far in history. I personally tend not to over-interpret anything less than 15 cM (as the highest identical region) in non-centromeric regions. My adyghe father-in-law for example got 31 matches in ftDNA, the majority with western european names, 14 of these names match only in one common region (perhaps a selection?). you could also check in ftdna matches by chromosome browser tool, to see if the armenian matches match in certain common chromosomal regions.

alhan
06-28-2017, 11:48 AM
Your username caught my attention. Any chance that you're R1b1a1a2? I don't want to confuse you further but I think I might have some useful information.

A full-blooded one of them is genetically quite distinct from an average Anatolian Turk but if your father or your grandfather is already of mixed origin, Gedmatch calculators might not be useful to find out what you're looking for. Your Family Finder results don't reflect that ancestry. If you're really interested to know whether your direct paternal ancestors trace to Western Russia, you need to know about Y-DNA.

Actually I am still waiting for the Y12DNA results. I hope that I will have a solid haplogroup information in a few weeks. I wonder if ydna will offer different valuable information than that of Family Finder.


You can actually eliminate the Adyghe option because you said their language isn't spoken by anyone in the whole village and no one has a clan name. That's because the village you mentioned isn't a diaspora settlement of these people. Since there's an official list of their villages, I can say they weren't settled in that city in general. There are few other options. I know Adyghe is the synonym of Circassian/Cherkess.

I pretty much think the same way. I managed to upload the data to GEDMATCH. From what I see from the several oracles, there is no sign of Caucasian background. Not Adyghe, not Chechen.

I will show the results in a different post. But it seems like many Gedmatch calculators show closer genetic distance to Kurdish, Armenian than Turkish. In some I have Turkish and even Uzbek?? Which is totally confusing.

It seems like Kurdish is the top ethnicity in terms of several calculators.

Adyghe ethnicity is not even in the picture.

alhan
06-28-2017, 11:53 AM
first of all, congratulations for your results. I would suggest as a first step to transfer your data to gedmatch (which is easy and free BTW). There you will have more detailed tools to look your DNA population components and have more matches (because there are also samples from other companies).
Almost the lebanon armenians originate from Anatolia after 1915, usually they are survivors from southern part of Anatolia like Cilicia, Marash, Antep. Depending the biggest common regions of DNA in cM, one could say if the relationship is recent or very far in history. I personally tend not to over-interpret anything less than 15 cM (as the highest identical region) in non-centromeric regions. My adyghe father-in-law for example got 31 matches in ftDNA, the majority with western european names, 14 of these names match only in one common region (perhaps a selection?). you could also check in ftdna matches by chromosome browser tool, to see if the armenian matches match in certain common chromosomal regions.

Thanks eoilien.

If I did everything right I managed to upload the data to GEDMATCH. As I stated in the previous post, no sign of Adyghe ethnicty.
The result of the calculators differs a lot, however; top ethnicty in calculators are Kurdish, Armenian, Turkish even Uzbek. Which I will post in a different post.

Which calculators I should rely on?

That is the current question mark.


I personally tend not to over-interpret anything less than 15 cM (as the highest identical region) in non-centromeric regions. My adyghe father-in-law for example got 31 matches in ftDNA, the majority with western european names, 14 of these names match only in one common region (perhaps a selection?). you could also check in ftdna matches by chromosome browser tool, to see if the armenian matches match in certain common chromosomal regions.

I've got only one match over 15cM which is Turkish. Armenian ones are around 9cM.

However calculator results show close genetic distance to Armenian ethnicity.

alhan
06-28-2017, 12:23 PM
MDLP K23b Oracle results:

MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.47
2 South_Central_Asian 23.79
3 Near_East 13.46
4 European_Early_Farmers 8.05
5 South_Indian 4.03
6 Tungus-Altaic 3.08
7 Ancestral_Altaic 2.71
8 European_Hunters_Gatherers 1.63
9 North_African 1
10 Amerindian 0.73
11 Australoid 0.46
12 Khoisan 0.3
13 Archaic_Human 0.24
14 African_Pygmy 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurd_North ( ) 3.8
2 Azeri ( ) 5.11
3 Uzbek_Tashkent ( ) 6.66
4 Kurd ( ) 6.74
5 Kurd_East ( ) 6.8
6 Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) 7.79
7 Kurd_South ( ) 8.1
8 Turk_Adana ( ) 8.2
9 Baku_WGA ( ) 8.25
10 Iraqi_Mandean ( ) 9.52
11 Kurd_Jew ( ) 9.55
12 Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) 9.72
13 Turk_Kayseri ( ) 10.01
14 Georgian_Jew ( ) 10.24
15 Turk ( ) 10.68
16 Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) 10.91
17 Iranian_Jew ( ) 11.23
18 Turk_Istanbul ( ) 12.98
19 Azeri_Dagestan ( ) 13.32
20 Stalskoe_Kumyk ( ) 13.6

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.2% Kurd_North ( ) + 14.8% Turk_Kayseri ( ) @ 3.43
2 61.6% Kurd_East ( ) + 38.4% Turk_Kayseri ( ) @ 3.48
3 94.4% Kurd_North ( ) + 5.6% Greek_Islands ( ) @ 3.51
4 93.7% Kurd_North ( ) + 6.3% Greek_Smyrna ( ) @ 3.51
5 94% Kurd_North ( ) + 6% Cypriot ( ) @ 3.54
6 88.1% Kurd_North ( ) + 11.9% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 3.54
7 93.5% Kurd_North ( ) + 6.5% Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) @ 3.54
8 95% Kurd_North ( ) + 5% Greek_Phokaia ( ) @ 3.56
9 95.8% Kurd_North ( ) + 4.2% Roma ( ) @ 3.56
10 96.2% Kurd_North ( ) + 3.8% Roma_BH ( ) @ 3.57
11 88.6% Kurd_North ( ) + 11.4% Turk ( ) @ 3.57
12 92.7% Kurd_North ( ) + 7.3% Azov_Greek ( ) @ 3.58
13 92% Kurd_North ( ) + 8% Iraqi_Jew ( ) @ 3.58
14 90.8% Kurd_North ( ) + 9.2% Turk_Istanbul ( ) @ 3.58
15 95% Kurd_North ( ) + 5% Druze ( ) @ 3.59
16 94.9% Kurd_North ( ) + 5.1% Greek ( ) @ 3.59
17 96.1% Kurd_North ( ) + 3.9% Roma_Bulgarian ( ) @ 3.59
18 95.2% Kurd_North ( ) + 4.8% Greek_Athens ( ) @ 3.59
19 93.9% Kurd_North ( ) + 6.1% Lebanese_Druze ( ) @ 3.6
20 95% Kurd_North ( ) + 5% Greek_Macedonia ( ) @ 3.6

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle

This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 35.91
2 East_Med 32.17
3 South_Asian 8.07
4 West_Med 7.15
5 Eastern_Euro 4.64
6 Red_Sea 4.33
7 North_Sea 4.25
8 Siberian 1.75
9 Amerindian 1.27


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Kurdish @ 6.616695
2 Armenian @ 7.203787
3 Iranian @ 8.464917
4 Azeri @ 8.677050
5 Georgian_Jewish @ 9.010647
6 Turkish @ 11.570363
7 Assyrian @ 11.788917
8 Iranian_Jewish @ 16.130751
9 Kurdish_Jewish @ 16.771549
10 Lebanese_Muslim @ 19.632355
11 Turkmen @ 19.682858
12 Kumyk @ 20.424717
13 Syrian @ 21.118505
14 Georgian @ 23.501369
15 Cyprian @ 23.512962
16 Adygei @ 25.365623
17 Lebanese_Christian @ 25.537668
18 Lezgin @ 25.834324
19 Lebanese_Druze @ 26.452759
20 Balkar @ 26.671869

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +50% Iranian @ 4.549136


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +25% Armenian +25% Makrani @ 3.934836


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++
1 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Makrani @ 3.934836
2 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian_Jewish + Makrani @ 4.026875
3 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Turkmen @ 4.052164
4 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Armenian + Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.157757
5 Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian + Makrani @ 4.235082
6 Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian + Balochi @ 4.299294
7 Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian + Brahui @ 4.335865
8 Armenian + Armenian + Brahui + Georgian_Jewish @ 4.372555
9 Armenian + Armenian + Balochi + Georgian_Jewish @ 4.382887
10 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Brahui @ 4.427527
11 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian_Jewish + Turkmen @ 4.436753
12 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Balochi @ 4.443325
13 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian @ 4.448492
14 Armenian + Georgian_Jewish + Georgian_Jewish + Makrani @ 4.457974
15 Armenian + Armenian + Kurdish + Turkmen @ 4.497885
16 Armenian + Armenian + Balochi + Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.519571
17 Afghan_Tadjik + Armenian + Armenian + Armenian @ 4.543334
18 Afghan_Tadjik + Armenian + Armenian + Georgian_Jewish @ 4.543534
19 Armenian + Armenian + Iranian + Iranian @ 4.549136
20 Armenian + Georgian + Lebanese_Druze + Makrani @ 4.554803

HarappaWorld 4-Ancestors Oracle

This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

23 April 2013 - Oracle reference population percentages revised.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 45.55
2 Baloch 22.51
3 SW-Asian 11.84
4 Mediterranean 8.86
5 NE-Euro 4.07
6 S-Indian 2.76
7 Siberian 1.61
8 NE-Asian 1.21


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 turkish @ 5.263809
2 kurd @ 5.719081
3 armenian @ 5.756201
4 kurd @ 6.334750
5 azeri @ 6.366241
6 uzbekistan-jew @ 7.253758
7 kurd @ 7.643833
8 iranian @ 7.969793
9 turk @ 9.252283
10 turk-kayseri @ 9.308819
11 iranian @ 10.015172
12 assyrian @ 10.130645
13 turk-istanbul @ 10.728952
14 azerbaijan-jew @ 11.495166
15 iraqi-mandaean @ 12.081820
16 armenian @ 12.548513
17 georgia-jew @ 12.631377
18 iranian-jew @ 12.657784
19 armenian @ 13.429405
20 iraqi-arab @ 13.744685

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% armenian +50% kurd @ 2.748527


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% armenian +25% iranian +25% kurd @ 2.476790


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++
1 armenian + iranian + kurd + turkish @ 2.082167
2 armenian + kurd + kurd + turkish @ 2.148470
3 armenian + armenian + iranian + iranian @ 2.199201
4 abhkasian + balochi + cypriot + lebanese-christian @ 2.266841
5 armenian + kurd + kurd + turkish @ 2.274712
6 armenian + armenian + iranian + kurd @ 2.288191
7 armenian + armenian + iranian + iranian @ 2.292078
8 armenian + iranian + iranian + turk-kayseri @ 2.316102
9 armenian + iranian + iranian + turkish @ 2.336399
10 abhkasian + balochi + cypriot + lebanese-druze @ 2.354378
11 armenian + armenian + iranian + kurd @ 2.356463
12 armenian + iranian + kurd + turk-kayseri @ 2.359058
13 brahui + cypriot + georgian + lebanese-christian @ 2.368229
14 balochi + cypriot + georgian + lebanese-christian @ 2.383018
15 armenian + iranian + kurd + turkish @ 2.387303
16 armenian + kurd + kurd + turkish @ 2.412801
17 armenian + armenian + iranian + iranian @ 2.422560
18 brahui + cypriot + georgian + lebanese-druze @ 2.422566
19 azerbaijan-jew + iranian + iranian + turk-kayseri @ 2.428785
20 armenian + iranian + kurd + turkish @ 2.429947

puntDNAL K13 Global 4-Ancestors Oracle

This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

puntDNAL K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 44.42
2 SW_Europe 22.86
3 SW_Asia 15.17
4 NE_Europe 6.64
5 South_Asia 5.06
6 Siberia 2.08
7 Americas 1.10
8 NE_Asia 1.06


Finished reading population data. 191 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Kurdish @ 4.396871
2 Azerbaijan_Azeri @ 4.636232
3 Iranian @ 6.924769
4 Abkhasian @ 7.756614
5 Armenian @ 9.385208
6 Turkish_Kayseri @ 10.140266
7 Assyrian @ 10.233857
8 Dagestan_Azeri @ 10.601663
9 Ossetian @ 11.003922
10 Turkish_Trabzon @ 11.804616
11 Turkish @ 12.745124
12 Adygei @ 14.563757
13 Lebanese_Druze @ 14.684595
14 Lebanese_Muslim @ 14.725217
15 Balkar @ 15.004157
16 Turkish_Aydin @ 15.380859
17 Syrian @ 15.518298
18 Lebanese_Christian @ 17.057301
19 Kumyk @ 17.607735
20 Cypriot @ 19.705118

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Azerbaijan_Azeri +50% Kurdish @ 3.095094


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Iranian +25% Turkish_Kayseri +25% Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.722826


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
1 Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Iranian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.240047
2 Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Kurdish + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.519945
3 Armenian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian @ 2.583594
4 Assyrian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian @ 2.673927
5 Armenian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Kurdish @ 2.703977
6 Iranian + Iranian + Turkish_Kayseri + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.722826
7 Azerbaijan_Azeri + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.737092
8 Afghan_Pashtun + Assyrian + Assyrian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.738656
9 Armenian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Iranian @ 2.741508
10 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Assyrian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.814345
11 Assyrian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Kurdish @ 2.849915
12 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Armenian + Armenian @ 2.853715
13 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian @ 2.886797
14 Armenian + Assyrian + Pathan + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.954703
15 Assyrian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Iranian @ 2.968865
16 Assyrian + Assyrian + Pathan + Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.018746
17 Iranian + Iranian + Ossetian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.037413
18 Abkhasian + Assyrian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian @ 3.039623
19 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Pathan @ 3.059666
20 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Armenian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.062940

Eurasia K3 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 W_Eurasian 88.55
2 E_Eurasian 8.99
3 SSA 2.46


Finished reading population data. 129 populations found.
3 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Kurd_C @ 1.571289
2 Iranian @ 2.031673
3 Adygei @ 2.812453
4 Turkish @ 2.935657
5 Mordovian @ 3.099845
6 Finnish @ 3.165372
7 Russian @ 3.309808
8 Chechen @ 3.993150
9 Balkar @ 4.229117
10 Kurd_N @ 4.343228
11 Loschbour @ 6.530620
12 Abkhasian @ 6.744102
13 Georgian_Jew @ 6.786635
14 Estonian @ 7.450294
15 Iranian_Jew @ 7.750716
16 Belarusian @ 8.061707
17 Lebanese @ 8.484200
18 Assyrian @ 8.689904
19 Armenian @ 8.771934
20 Ukrainian @ 8.905043

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Brahui +50% Sardinian @ 0.000000
2 50% Brahui +50% LBK_EN @ 0.278690
3 50% Balochi +50% Sardinian @ 0.445600
4 50% Balochi +50% LBK_EN @ 0.487431
5 50% English +50% Makrani @ 0.562770
6 50% Kurd_C +50% Turkish @ 0.668328
7 50% French +50% Makrani @ 0.704101
8 50% Iranian +50% Kurd_C @ 0.726500
9 50% Bergamo +50% Brahui @ 0.758283
10 50% Czech +50% Makrani @ 0.769501
11 50% Croatian +50% Makrani @ 0.772813
12 50% Brahui +50% French_South @ 0.830465
13 50% Adygei +50% Iranian @ 0.865366
14 50% Balochi +50% Bergamo @ 0.927467
15 50% Makrani +50% Norwegian @ 0.937362
16 50% Albanian +50% Makrani @ 0.944893
17 50% French_South +50% Makrani @ 0.970896
18 50% Balochi +50% French_South @ 1.004740
19 50% Bergamo +50% Makrani @ 1.042924
20 50% Chechen +50% Iranian @ 1.043487


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Abkhasian +25% Iranian +25% Makrani @ 0.000000

Afshar
06-28-2017, 12:37 PM
Malatyadan bir sonuc (Turk)
MDLP K23b 4-Ancestors Oracle
This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.78
2 South_Central_Asian 23.69
3 Near_East 9.65
4 European_Early_Farmers 8.38
5 South_Indian 5.91
6 Ancestral_Altaic 4.82
7 North_African 2.44
8 European_Hunters_Gatherers 2.34


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Kurd_North @ 5.538695
2 Azeri @ 5.974787
3 Kurd_East @ 6.208511
4 Kurd_South @ 6.578266
5 Kurd @ 7.492851
6 Baku_WGA @ 8.093816
7 Uzbek_Tashkent @ 8.493694
8 Uzbekistani_Jew @ 9.914515
9 Turk_Adana @ 10.344414
10 Turk_Kayseri @ 10.796970
11 Iranian @ 11.885516
12 Georgian_Jew @ 12.019701
13 Turk @ 12.343247
14 Assyrian_Iraqi @ 12.578197
15 Azeri_Dagestan @ 12.608937
16 Kurd_Jew @ 12.796222
17 Iraqi_Mandean @ 12.882936
18 Iraqi_Chaldean @ 12.883151
19 Jew_Tat @ 13.651483
20 Iranian_Jew @ 13.872230

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Kurd_East +50% Turk_Kayseri @ 5.415174


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +25% Assyrian_Iraqi +25% Burusho @ 2.985746


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Abkhasian + Assyrian_Iraqi + Pathan + Syrian_Jew @ 2.664433
2 Assyrian_Iraqi + Georgian + Pathan + Syrian_Jew @ 2.686206
3 Assyrian_Iraqi + Georgian_Svan + Pathan + Syrian_Jew @ 2.832232
puntDNAL K13 Global 4-Ancestors Oracle
This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

puntDNAL K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 41.61
2 SW_Europe 22.12
3 SW_Asia 16.09
4 NE_Europe 8.77
5 South_Asia 6.90
6 South_Africa 1.55
7 Siberia 1.07
8 East_Africa 1.01


Finished reading population data. 191 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Kurdish @ 5.004740
2 Azerbaijan_Azeri @ 5.517452
3 Iranian @ 5.913540
4 Turkish_Kayseri @ 9.240992
5 Abkhasian @ 9.379749
6 Dagestan_Azeri @ 10.723615
7 Turkish @ 11.029649
8 Armenian @ 11.320583
9 Ossetian @ 11.536804
10 Assyrian @ 11.716771
11 Turkish_Aydin @ 13.801419
12 Lebanese_Druze @ 13.881592
13 Lebanese_Muslim @ 13.914700
14 Syrian @ 14.113066
15 Adygei @ 14.301435
16 Turkish_Trabzon @ 14.471699
17 Balkar @ 14.609496
18 Kumyk @ 16.271248
19 Lebanese_Christian @ 16.360271
20 Cypriot @ 19.236044

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Iranian +50% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.799118


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Assyrian +25% Pathan +25% Turkish @ 2.186700


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
1 Afghan_Pashtun + Jordanian + Kurdish + Turkish_Trabzon @ 1.818693
2 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Kurdish + Syrian @ 1.844417
3 Afghan_Pashtun + Kurdish + Palestinian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 1.858957
4 Afghan_Pashtun + Assyrian + Kurdish + Lebanese_Druze @ 1.868571
5 Abkhasian + Armenian + Pakistan_Pashtun + Palestinian @ 1.874821

Yani memleketine gore sonuc normal gibi. Cerkezlikten 100% emin olmak icin ydna test etmen gerek.

alhan
06-28-2017, 12:50 PM
Let me try to interpret my own data results.

First of all the Kurdish is somehow pops-up each and every calculator, I guess I shall cherish Kurdish ethnicity for beginning.

All Harappa World calculators show Turkish ethnicity as a top ethnicity. Is it manipulative or more objective. Knowing that my maternal side is of Turkish origin. Turkish is listed way below than I originally anticipated.

Eurasia K3 Oracle shows Adyghe as third in terms of genetic distance. Which is strange because it is never around when it comes to other calculators.

Uzbek, Iranian and Azeri components are present, sometimes even prior to Turkish. I'm guessing especially Uzbek and Azeri ones are overlaps with 9% Central Asian in My Origins.

Similarly Armenian matches that I have are from 6% West Middle East in My Origin results.

I hope to see your interpretations of my data.


Malatyadan bir sonuc (Turk)
Yani memleketine gore sonuc normal gibi. Cerkezlikten 100% emin olmak icin ydna test etmen gerek.

Bu sonuç gerçekten de ilginç. Ufak farklar dışında neredeyse aynı. Bu da ben de şüphe yaratıyor. Kökenlerimiz benzeştiği için mi benzer sonuçlar alıyoruz. Yoksa FTDNA sitesinde Malatya'yı seçtiğim için mi benzer sonuçlar alıyoruz. Tuhaf gerçekten.

Sanırım 2 haftaya kadar YDNA12 sonuçlarını almış olurum. O zaman Kafkas kökeni hikayesini tamamen rafa kaldırıp kaldırmama konusunu tekrar ele alırım. B)

Afshar
06-28-2017, 01:03 PM
Oracle sonuclarini pek ciddiye alma, sonuca hepsi tahmin. Bazende kullanilan referanslar gercegi yansitmiyor. Yani sonuclarin cografyana gore normal, sayilardan cok matchlerine bak derim.

alhan
06-28-2017, 01:14 PM
Oracle sonuclarini pek ciddiye alma, sonuca hepsi tahmin. Bazende kullanilan referanslar gercegi yansitmiyor. Yani sonuclarin cografyana gore normal, sayilardan cok matchlerine bak derim.

Aynı fikirdeyim. Her calculator tamamen farklı bir resim çiziyor.

Sanırım ydna'dan önce kesin bir kanaat belirtmek güç olacak gibi.

Match'lere gelince. 15 cM üzerinde yalnızca bir match var o da Turk isimli. Biraz daha match kısmı ile ilgileneyim en iyisi. :beerchug:
Gedmatch'in match kısmını daha hiç denemedim.

eolien
06-28-2017, 01:56 PM
ben burada daha önce de yazmıştım, kayınvalidem 3/4 Malatya 1/4 Adana kökenli, ve o ve onun bazı eşleşmeleriyle iletişimim yoluyla vardığım kanı Malatya ve mesela Elbistan ve Kangal gibi çevresinin türkmenlere yakınlık dolayısıyla hep Azeri, Kuzey Kürt , Adana Türk ve Kayseri Türk olarak adlandırılan gruplara yakın çıktığı. Onun sonuçlarıyla senin yukardaki sonuçlarını karşılaştırdığımda, genelde az çok benzeşse de seninkinin niteliksel olarak biraz daha doğuya kaydığını farkediyorum mesela onun MDLP23b oracle sonucu
1 68% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 32% Kurd_East ( ) @ 2.47
2 69.6% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 30.4% Kurd_South ( ) @ 2.52
3 56.9% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 43.1% Kurd_North ( ) @ 2.71

verirken seninki

1 85.2% Kurd_North ( ) + 14.8% Turk_Kayseri ( ) @ 3.43
2 61.6% Kurd_East ( ) + 38.4% Turk_Kayseri ( ) @ 3.48
3 94.4% Kurd_North ( ) + 5.6% Greek_Islands ( ) @ 3.51
4 93.7% Kurd_North ( ) + 6.3% Greek_Smyrna ( ) @ 3.51

diğer 3 testte de o genelde daha çok türk çıkıyor sen ise Kürt/Ermeni tarafına kayıyorsun
mesela pundDNAL*da
onunkiyle seninkini altalta koydum
o 50% Azerbaijan_Azeri +50% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.049898
sen 50% Iranian +50% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.799118

o 50% Azerbaijan_Azeri +25% Turkish_Aydin +25% Turkish_Trabzon @ 1.772903
sen 50% Assyrian +25% Pathan +25% Turkish @ 2.186700

o Kurdish + Turkish_Aydin + Turkish_Kayseri + Turkish_Trabzon @ 1.501089
sen Afghan_Pashtun + Jordanian + Kurdish + Turkish_Trabzon @ 1.818693

paştunlar zaten kürtlere yakın çıkıyorlar genelde
kolay gelsin

alhan
06-28-2017, 02:35 PM
ben burada daha önce de yazmıştım, kayınvalidem 3/4 Malatya 1/4 Adana kökenli, ve o ve onun bazı eşleşmeleriyle iletişimim yoluyla vardığım kanı Malatya ve mesela Elbistan ve Kangal gibi çevresinin türkmenlere yakınlık dolayısıyla hep Azeri, Kuzey Kürt , Adana Türk ve Kayseri Türk olarak adlandırılan gruplara yakın çıktığı. Onun sonuçlarıyla senin yukardaki sonuçlarını karşılaştırdığımda, genelde az çok benzeşse de seninkinin niteliksel olarak biraz daha doğuya kaydığını farkediyorum mesela onun MDLP23b oracle sonucu
1 68% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 32% Kurd_East ( ) @ 2.47
2 69.6% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 30.4% Kurd_South ( ) @ 2.52
3 56.9% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 43.1% Kurd_North ( ) @ 2.71

verirken seninki

1 85.2% Kurd_North ( ) + 14.8% Turk_Kayseri ( ) @ 3.43
2 61.6% Kurd_East ( ) + 38.4% Turk_Kayseri ( ) @ 3.48
3 94.4% Kurd_North ( ) + 5.6% Greek_Islands ( ) @ 3.51
4 93.7% Kurd_North ( ) + 6.3% Greek_Smyrna ( ) @ 3.51

diğer 3 testte de o genelde daha çok türk çıkıyor sen ise Kürt/Ermeni tarafına kayıyorsun
mesela pundDNAL*da
onunkiyle seninkini altalta koydum
o 50% Azerbaijan_Azeri +50% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.049898
sen 50% Iranian +50% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.799118

o 50% Azerbaijan_Azeri +25% Turkish_Aydin +25% Turkish_Trabzon @ 1.772903
sen 50% Assyrian +25% Pathan +25% Turkish @ 2.186700

o Kurdish + Turkish_Aydin + Turkish_Kayseri + Turkish_Trabzon @ 1.501089
sen Afghan_Pashtun + Jordanian + Kurdish + Turkish_Trabzon @ 1.818693

paştunlar zaten kürtlere yakın çıkıyorlar genelde
kolay gelsin

Yorumlar için teşekkürler.

Doğrusu benim beklediğimin çok üzerinde Kürt ağırlıklı sonuçlar çıktı. Baba tarafı Kafkas kökenli ancak arada Kürtlerinde karıştığını biliyordum. Ancak anne tarafı Türk diye biliyordum.

Sonuçlara baktığım zaman Kafkas kökenle ilgili bayağı ciddi bir soru işareti var sanki. Kafkas'tan ziyade belki Azeri, İran etkisi daha muhtemel gibi.

Öte yanda Türk olarak bilinen anne tarafında da, baba tarafında da ciddi bir Kürt ağırlığı var gibi. Çünkü HarappoWorld dışında Türk etnik köken en ön sırada çıkmıyor.

Gedmatch sonuçları belli calculatorlerde belli etnik orijinleri öne çıkarıyor gibi, ancak geneli itibariyle objektif bir gözle bakıldığında en muhtemel ağırlıklı etnik köken olarak Kürtlük öne çıkıyor ve bir tarafta da Ermenilik ilişkisi var gibi.

YDNA sonuçları çıkınca genel bir değerlendirme daha yapmakta fayda var. Muhtelen bu sonuçları tamamlayan bir haplogroup bilgisi alırım diye düşünüyorum.

Macir
06-28-2017, 03:45 PM
Sonuçlarınız hayırlı olsun. Gördüğüm kadarıyla Orta-Güney Asya tarafından gelen bir etki nedeniyle Kürtler, İranlılar hatta Özbekler'e yakınlık çıkıyor sonuçlarda. Türk ortalamasına göre daha fazla South_Asian çıktığı için sanırım. Kafkasya'da kürt nüfusu varsa onun etkisi olabilir. Ama aynı etkiyi büyük büyük annenizin çingene olması da yapabilir. Yine de çok benzer sonucun Malatyalı diğer Türk ten de gelmesi, olası Kafkas ( veya Kürt vs.) etkisinin geçmişte kaldığını ve kısıtlı olduğunu gösteriyor. Ama bunların hepsi bir tahmin, pek birşeyin kanıtına benzemiyor.

Y-DNA sonuçlarının daha kesin sonuçlar vermesini umarım:)

alhan
06-29-2017, 02:28 PM
Sonuçlarınız hayırlı olsun. Gördüğüm kadarıyla Orta-Güney Asya tarafından gelen bir etki nedeniyle Kürtler, İranlılar hatta Özbekler'e yakınlık çıkıyor sonuçlarda. Türk ortalamasına göre daha fazla South_Asian çıktığı için sanırım. Kafkasya'da kürt nüfusu varsa onun etkisi olabilir. Ama aynı etkiyi büyük büyük annenizin çingene olması da yapabilir. Yine de çok benzer sonucun Malatyalı diğer Türk ten de gelmesi, olası Kafkas ( veya Kürt vs.) etkisinin geçmişte kaldığını ve kısıtlı olduğunu gösteriyor. Ama bunların hepsi bir tahmin, pek birşeyin kanıtına benzemiyor.

Y-DNA sonuçlarının daha kesin sonuçlar vermesini umarım:)

Teşekkürler.

Dünden bugüne kadar GEDMATCH calculator'leri ile uğraşmak için hayli zamanım oldu. Özellikle Oracle konusu fazlaca spekülatif gözüküyor. Her hesaplayıcıda resim tamamen yenileniyor. Harappa Türk'lüğü öne çıkarıyor. Gedrosia Azeri ve İran kökenini, Dodecad Özbek kökenini öne çıkarıyor, Eurogenes'te Kürt kökeni öne çıkıyor.

Yani bayağı bir çorba olmuş durumda. Özellikle birinde bir numarada gösterilen etnik köken diğer hesaplayıcıda listeye bile giremiyor. Bu yüzden GEDMATCH hesaplayıcıları ilk etapta bir kenara koymak daha makul olacak zannımca.

Öte yandan matchler konusunda ilginç sonuçlar aldım.

Yine Malatya'da baba tarafımdan atalarımın olduğu ve ismimizi de taşıyan köye yakın bir köyden yakın sayılabilecek bir "match" var.

Shared Centimorgan olarak 58, Longest Block olarak 19 değeri alıyorum. Bu match'in ydna'sı J-Z438 olarak gözüküyor. İki köy arasında uzun zamanlardır kız alıp kız vermenin söz konusu olduğu bilgisini de teyit ettim. Sanırım önemli bir referans olarak değerlendirilebilir bu eşleşme. Ortak centimorganlar ve longest block konusunda 3. derece kuzen çokta absürd gelmedi. Kafama yattı doğrusu.

Bu noktada oracle'larda Ermeni'liğin neden öne çıktığını gösteren Ermeni eşleşmeleri var ki, anladığım kadarıyla kendi içlerinde birbirleriyle akraba olan iki aile var. Bunlarda Shared centimorgan daha düşük 39, 38, 33 gibi, ancak longest block'lar oldukça uzun gözüküyor. 23, 21, 15 uzunluğunda blocklar var. İlginçtir bu uzun block'lar hep 1. kromozomda gözüküyor.
Bu konuyu nasılyorumlayabilirim tam emin olamıyorum.

Sanırım 4. dereceden bir ortak ata söz konusu olabilir.

Özellikle Malatya, Maraş ve Antep gibi yörelerde yüzyılın başında, Ermeni kız çocuklarının Türk ve Kürtlerce alıkonulduğu ile ilgili anlatılan hikayelerin genler bağlamında karşılığını görüyor olabiliriz. Kimbilir..

Bu gen işi çok ilginç gerçekten..

eolien
06-29-2017, 06:31 PM
merhaba, hemen ufak bir yorum katayım istedim. matchlarla oracle arasında pek bir ilişki yok, yanılmıyorsam her test için referans topluluklar var senin referans topluluklarındaki yüzdelerine en yakın topluluklar en yakın çıkıyor. çok verilen bir örnektir diyelim babası fransız annesi türk biri oracleda genelde türkiyeye göre batıya kaymış bir topluluğa diyelim ki italyaya yakın çıkıyor. bütün bu sonuçlar referans ve oracle olarak seçilen örneklerin sayısı, kalitesi ve doğruluyla çok alakalı. bu forumun üst tarafında autosomal (au) dna altında şu thread var: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10813-Tool-for-K36-your-similarities-rates-on-maps . eurogenes k36 sonuçlarını oradaki adresi verilen siteye doldurup orada yada burada ortaya çıkan haritayı bizimle paylaşırsan ilginç olabilir.

alhan
06-29-2017, 09:12 PM
merhaba, hemen ufak bir yorum katayım istedim. matchlarla oracle arasında pek bir ilişki yok, yanılmıyorsam her test için referans topluluklar var senin referans topluluklarındaki yüzdelerine en yakın topluluklar en yakın çıkıyor. çok verilen bir örnektir diyelim babası fransız annesi türk biri oracleda genelde türkiyeye göre batıya kaymış bir topluluğa diyelim ki italyaya yakın çıkıyor. bütün bu sonuçlar referans ve oracle olarak seçilen örneklerin sayısı, kalitesi ve doğruluyla çok alakalı.

Match'lerle oracle ile dolaylı da olsa bir ilişki yok mu? Yani en azından matchler ile oracle sonuçları birbiriyle örtüşüyorsa birbirini doğrulamış olmazlar mı? Aslında sizin verdiğiniz örnekteki gibi Fransız baba, Türk annenin çocuğunun oracle'ının İtalyan çıkması örneği benim oracle ların sonuçlarını açıklıyor gibi. Gördüğüm kadarıyla Eurosia K3 Oracle'ı kısmen de olsa benim beklediğim sonuçlara en yaklaşan hesaplayıcı gibi gözüküyor:

Eurasia K3 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 W_Eurasian 88.55
2 E_Eurasian 8.99
3 SSA 2.46


Finished reading population data. 129 populations found.
3 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Kurd_C @ 1.571289
2 Iranian @ 2.031673
3 Adygei @ 2.812453
4 Turkish @ 2.935657
5 Mordovian @ 3.099845
6 Finnish @ 3.165372
7 Russian @ 3.309808
8 Chechen @ 3.993150
9 Balkar @ 4.229117
10 Kurd_N @ 4.343228
11 Loschbour @ 6.530620
12 Abkhasian @ 6.744102
13 Georgian_Jew @ 6.786635
14 Estonian @ 7.450294
15 Iranian_Jew @ 7.750716
16 Belarusian @ 8.061707
17 Lebanese @ 8.484200
18 Assyrian @ 8.689904
19 Armenian @ 8.771934
20 Ukrainian @ 8.905043



bu forumun üst tarafında autosomal (au) dna altında şu thread var: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10813-Tool-for-K36-your-similarities-rates-on-maps . eurogenes k36 sonuçlarını oradaki adresi verilen siteye doldurup orada yada burada ortaya çıkan haritayı bizimle paylaşırsan ilginç olabilir.

Bahsettiğiniz başlığı daha önce okumuştum tarif edilen şekilde yapmayı deneyeceğim.

Macir
06-29-2017, 09:33 PM
K3 yakınlık sonuçlarını dikkate almamanız gerekiyor. Sadece 3 temel kompenente bakıp karşılastırdığı için %7-8 civarı East Eurasian olan Rus, Fin ve Mordvinler bile size çok yakın çıkıyor. Diğerlerinde kalkulatorlerde başı çeken Kurd_n ve Armenian lardan bile daha yakın.

alhan
06-29-2017, 10:01 PM
bu forumun üst tarafında autosomal (au) dna altında şu thread var: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10813-Tool-for-K36-your-similarities-rates-on-maps . eurogenes k36 sonuçlarını oradaki adresi verilen siteye doldurup orada yada burada ortaya çıkan haritayı bizimle paylaşırsan ilginç olabilir.

Dünkü haritalar tarayıcı farkından dolayı kaymış. Bugün nasılsa farklı gözüktü ki, hesaplayıcı sonuçlarını da doğruluyor. Zaten hesaplayıcılar ile aynı referansları kullandığı düşünülürse haritaların farklılaşmaması da gerekirdi.

17313
Anadoluda 77 olması ilginç doğrusu, özellikle de Türk köken bu kadar geride gözükürken. Karadenizde 71 görüyoruz.

Asıl odak noktası daha doğuda gözüküyor.
17314

Bu harita oracle sonuçlarının tam anlamıyla haritalanması şeklinde gözüküyor. Buna göre Kürt yoğunluğundan dolayı en yüksek değerler güneydoğuda. Ermenistan, İran ve Azerbaycan takip ediyor.

eolien
06-29-2017, 10:38 PM
sanirim haritada bir kayma olmus (sizinle ilgisi yok), bir-iki gun icinde yanit vermeye calisacagim

alhan
06-30-2017, 06:37 PM
Eurogenes K36 sonuçları aşağıdaki şekilde çıkıyor;

Population
Amerindian 0.53
Arabian 1.34
Armenian 11.38
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 2.76
East_African -
East_Asian 0.46
East_Balkan 4.88
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 17.30
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 2.02
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 16.74
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 17.11
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 16.03
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 9.33
West_Med 0.13

256 referans population üzerine kurulmuş hesaplayıcının sonuçları yukarıdaki gibi. Önceki yazımdaki haritada bu referans populationlara kıyasla yüzdesel eşleşmeler verilmiş.

Benzer şekilde Eurogenes K36 hesaplayıcısını oracle'lar için kullandığımda şöyle bir sonuç alıyorum.

First 20 Populations distance %
1 Kurd 5,49 35,44
2 Azeri 6,84 28,46
3 Azeri_Igdir 8,32 23,41
4 Armenian 18,79 10,36
5 Iran 281,40 0,69
6 Turkey_average 684,34 0,28
7 Azeri_Jews 811,67 0,24
8 Turkish_Anatolia 1046,95 0,19
9 Caucasus_Jews 1575,85 0,12
10 Assyrian 1795,53 0,11
11 Turkmen 2684,45 0,07
12 Iraqi_Jews 3137,22 0,06
13 Azeri_Dagestan 5341,21 0,04
14 Tatar_Crimea_Coast 7340,76 0,03
15 Turkmen_Uzbekistan 10436,52 0,02
16 Greek_Azov 10509,08 0,02
17 Tajik_AFG 11375,67 0,02
18 Palestina 14021,81 0,01
19 Jordan 15410,45 0,01
20 Levant 15449,87 0,01
(non extrapolated) % sum for first twenty pops 99,59629868
Regional sharing %
1 North-West Asia 98,60
2 South_Central Asia 0,72
3 West Asian Jews 0,43
4 Near East 0,15
5 Central Asia 0,10

5 Area sharing %
1 Asia Minor &Caucasus 98,58
2 South Central Asia 0,72
3 Jewish 0,45
4 Near East 0,15
5 Balkan 0,11

Gerçekten bu calculatorler çok ilginç.

Bu sonuçlara bakacak olursak Türk'lük tamamen rafa kalkmış durumda. Ağırlıklı Azeri ve Kürt biraz da Ermeni gözüküyor. Türk'lük ise İran'ın bile arkasında kalmış. :\

alhan
07-08-2017, 09:20 PM
My geneology testing survey started to figure out whether or not Adygea etnicity claim on my paternal side was true.

As of now, I had some valuable but a little speculative information on Family Finder. That's why I needed ydna results. Let me summarize my results to save you from reading all the posts in this thread.

Family Finder results, defines me as 90% Middle Eastern & 10% Central Asian.
According to GEDMATCH oracles, ethnic genetic distances are quite speculative and ambiguous with different calculators.

Kurdish, Azeri, Armenian, Iranian, Turkish, Uzbek ethnicities are somehow coming into picture. Matches from autosomal data shows Turkish, Kurdish and Armenian cousins. (Closest one being 3rd cousin)

Family Finder had no confirmation or significant sign of Adygea, Cherkessian or any other Caucasian race.

And naturally I was quite suspicious about the Adygea etnicity claim.

Then, I got my results for Y-DNA12.

I am R-M173.

It is now time to figure out what that means.

My expectation was to see G-M201 if the Adygea etnicity claim was true or have J-M172 as a sign of Turkish&Kurdish etnicity.

Now I have something very different.

R-M173 is defined as R1A by some of the administrators of the projects (Z93??). I've read that R-M173 is an IndoEuropean haplogroup and it needs more tests, Y37 or SNP testing to specify subclade info.

I was answered by the administrator of Adygea project on FTDNA and learned that R1A (R-M173) is the second most dominant haplogroup (first one G-M201) within Adygea people.

It is one of the dominant haplogroups of East Europe. It is also seen in Caucasus, Iran, Krygyzistan.

My guess is that I have some Asian branch of R1A.

But I am not very sure to accept this result as a sign of Adygea origin.

My ydna matches show many Eastern Europeans besides there are some Chechen, Balkar, Turkistan matches with 0 genetic distance. Interestingly no sign of Armenian, Kurdish or Iranian matches?

YDNA and autosomal matches do not really overlaps.

I'd be very glad to hear your thoughts on this. I will try to write as my learning progress.

Afshar
07-09-2017, 09:51 AM
Str verilerini paylasabilirmisin yada nevgen predictor sitesinden bir incelet, daha fazla bilgi verir

alhan
07-09-2017, 10:17 AM
Str verilerini paylasabilirmisin yada nevgen predictor sitesinden bir incelet, daha fazla bilgi verir

Haplogroup bilgisi detaylandırmak için test etmeyi gerektiriyor gibi
17460

Daha önce FTDNA sitesinde SNP testleri için 100$ üstünde rakamlar görmüştüm. Ancak örneğin benim R-M173 için SNP testi yaptırmanın bedeli 39$ olarak gözüküyor.

Tabii bu SNP testiyle ne kadar detay bir subclade bilgisi edinilebilir bilemiyorum.

STR değerlerini ekleyecektim ancak şu anda sayfa cevap vermiyor. Aşağıya imajını ekliyorum. Dün NEVGEN ve diğer bazı tahmin uygulamalarına girdim. %100 R1A gösteriyor, ancak onun daha altındaki herhangi bir subclade için tahmin de olsa bir bilgi vermiyor.

17461

Macir
07-09-2017, 01:07 PM
nevgen'de sol taraftaki üzerinde nokta olan 3 çizgiye tıklayıp sadece r1a için testi seçerseniz, şu sonucu elde ediyorsunuz-->
1 R1a Z93>Z94> L657>Y4
39,08 75,14

Ama bu test için 67STR öneriyor, yine de bir fikir verebilir. Wikipedia'da gördüğüm kadarıyla L657+ Hindistan'da yaygın olan alt grup.

alhan
07-09-2017, 01:27 PM
nevgen'de sol taraftaki üzerinde nokta olan 3 çizgiye tıklayıp sadece r1a için testi seçerseniz, şu sonucu elde ediyorsunuz-->
1 R1a Z93>Z94> L657>Y4
39,08 75,14

Ama bu test için 67STR öneriyor, yine de bir fikir verebilir. Wikipedia'da gördüğüm kadarıyla L657+ Hindistan'da yaygın olan alt grup.

Bu şekilde yapmamıştım teşekkürler.

Yalnız sizin dediğiniz şekilde yapınca benim markerlarımla (13,25,15,11,11-14,12,12,10,14,11)

çıkan sonuç farklı gibi??
Ben mi yanlış bir şey yapıyorum acaba.
Benimkinde çıkan sonuç aşağıdaki gibi
17465

Yani R1a Y2395 >Z284> CTS4179>

altında dört farklı ihtimal var YP276, YP1420, YP386, YP704 %24 İLE %10 ihtimalleri var.

Sizin bahsettiğiniz ise onların ardından geliyor. R1a Z93>Z94> L657>Y4 (%5,6)

Yanlış mı okuyorum??

alhan
07-09-2017, 01:35 PM
nevgen'de sol taraftaki üzerinde nokta olan 3 çizgiye tıklayıp sadece r1a için testi seçerseniz, şu sonucu elde ediyorsunuz-->
1 R1a Z93>Z94> L657>Y4
39,08 75,14

Ama bu test için 67STR öneriyor, yine de bir fikir verebilir. Wikipedia'da gördüğüm kadarıyla L657+ Hindistan'da yaygın olan alt grup.

Bu şekilde yapmamıştım teşekkürler.

Yalnız sizin dediğiniz şekilde yapınca benim markerlarımla (13,25,15,11,11-14,12,12,10,14,11)

çıkan sonuç farklı gibi??
Ben mi yanlış bir şey yapıyorum acaba.
Benimkinde çıkan sonuç aşağıdaki gibi
17465

Yani R1a Y2395 >Z284> CTS4179>

altında dört farklı ihtimal var YP276, YP1420, YP386, YP704 %24 İLE %10 ihtimalleri var.

Sizin bahsettiğiniz ise onların ardından geliyor. R1a Z93>Z94> L657>Y4 (%5,6)

Yanlış mı okuyorum??

alhan
07-09-2017, 01:41 PM
Bu şekilde yapmamıştım teşekkürler.

Yalnız sizin dediğiniz şekilde yapınca benim markerlarımla (13,25,15,11,11-14,12,12,10,14,11)

çıkan sonuç farklı gibi??
Ben mi yanlış bir şey yapıyorum acaba.
Benimkinde çıkan sonuç aşağıdaki gibi
17465

Yani R1a Y2395 >Z284> CTS4179>

altında dört farklı ihtimal var YP276, YP1420, YP386, YP704 %24 İLE %10 ihtimalleri var.

Sizin bahsettiğiniz ise onların ardından geliyor. R1a Z93>Z94> L657>Y4 (%5,6)

Yanlış mı okuyorum??

R1a Y2395 >Z284> CTS4179>

subclade'i ile ne kadar eski bir subclade'den bahsediyoruz bilemiyorum. Anladığım kadarıyla R1a Doğu Avrupa orijinli bir haplogroup, bu bahsettiğim subclade'ler de yine çok eski tarihlere referans ise anlaşılabilir.

Yine bir sürprizle karşı karşıyayım sanki, ben R1a nın Asya kolundan bir alt gruptan olacağımı düşünüyordum. Hala da bir yanlışlık var gibi geliyor.

Çünkü şu ana kadar konuyla ilgili bilgi sahibi kişilerce önerilen Z93 ve Z2124 daha mantıklı gelmişti.

Arminius
07-09-2017, 03:12 PM
Hi,if you are the Alhan R1a i have seen in Oghuz project and Dersim project,i checked your Str and you have lots of matches from Central Asian Turkic and Tatars also Europeans,i think your subclade related to Turkic people etc,i think you should upgrade your STR numbers for more info

Macir
07-09-2017, 03:38 PM
Bu şekilde yapmamıştım teşekkürler.

Yalnız sizin dediğiniz şekilde yapınca benim markerlarımla (13,25,15,11,11-14,12,12,10,14,11)

çıkan sonuç farklı gibi??
Ben mi yanlış bir şey yapıyorum acaba.
Benimkinde çıkan sonuç aşağıdaki gibi
17465

Yani R1a Y2395 >Z284> CTS4179>

altında dört farklı ihtimal var YP276, YP1420, YP386, YP704 %24 İLE %10 ihtimalleri var.

Sizin bahsettiğiniz ise onların ardından geliyor. R1a Z93>Z94> L657>Y4 (%5,6)

Yanlış mı okuyorum??

DYS385 11-14 olan değerinizi;
DYS385a = 11
DYS385b = 14
girmeniz gerekiyor sanırım. Ben sadece sizin değerlerinizi kopyala yapıştır yapmıştım. Ama derin subclade olarak 12 marker yetersiz kalıyor sanırım, daha fazla markera yükseltme yaparsanız sonucunuz değişebilir. Bu arada kişisel bir soru ama hangi gruptan y12 yi sipariş etmemi tavsiye edersiniz? :) Oghuz turks mu turkey mi ?

alhan
07-09-2017, 03:42 PM
Hi,if you are the Alhan R1a i have seen in Oghuz project and Dersim project,i checked your Str and you have lots of matches from Central Asian Turkic and Tatars also Europeans,i think your subclade related to Turkic people etc,i think you should upgrade your STR numbers for more info
Yes it's me in Oguz and Dersim Projects. I do have matches from Krygzistan, Norway, Scotland and I have a perfect match with a man name Timur from Turkistan. However he also has Ydna12.

alhan
07-09-2017, 03:57 PM
DYS385 11-14 olan değerinizi;
DYS385a = 11
DYS385b = 14
girmeniz gerekiyor sanırım. Ben sadece sizin değerlerinizi kopyala yapıştır yapmıştım. Ama derin subclade olarak 12 marker yetersiz kalıyor sanırım, daha fazla markera yükseltme yaparsanız sonucunuz değişebilir. Bu arada kişisel bir soru ama hangi gruptan y12 yi sipariş etmemi tavsiye edersiniz? :) Oghuz turks mu turkey mi ?

Bildiğim kadarıyla hangi projeden Ydna12 siparişi vermeniz farketmiyor. Ben hiç bir gruptan vermemiştim (çünkü bulamamıştım). Sonra google'layınca grupsuz gibi bir yer çıkıyordu oradan verdim.

Marker artırmaya gelince, şimdilik elimdeki veriyi anlamaya odaklanacağım. Çünkü BigY çok pahalı ve diğer testlerde muhtemelen yine daha gazlasını gerektirecek.

Bir de eşleşme sayısının çokta artacağına pek ihtimal vermiyorum. Daha fazla Norveçli İskoç eşleşme de anlamsız geliyor.

Şu anda YDNA'nın Kırgız - Kafkas orijininden hangisini işaret ettiğini anlamaya çalışıyorum.

Kırgız eşleşme toplam sayısı rakamsal olarak büyük. Öte yandan Kafkas gruplarında benzer bir örnekte markerlarda benzeşmeler görüyorum.

Afshar
07-09-2017, 05:55 PM
Matchleriniz ile irtibata gecip daha fazla bilgi almaya calisin. Cerkez olsaydi match cikardi, test edilen cerkez sayisi fazla cunku

alhan
07-09-2017, 07:55 PM
Matchleriniz ile irtibata gecip daha fazla bilgi almaya calisin. Cerkez olsaydi match cikardi, test edilen cerkez sayisi fazla cunku

Autosomal Matchlerle bağlantı kurdum aslında. Ama ydna matchlerle henüz kurmadım. Yarın özellikle exact match olarak gözüken birkaç kişiye yazmayı düşünüyorum. Tatar, Türkistanlı ve Türk birkaç kişi acaba dedirtiyor.

Autosomal matchler ile ydna matchlerin hiç biri eşleşmiyor. Bu da bana atalarımın her nereden göçtülerse uzun süre (400-500 yıl?) geçtiğini düşündürüyor.

Detay testler konusunda şüphelerim var. Mevcut haliyle bile 12/12 eşleşmelerin büyük çoğunluğu Avrupalı. Eğer bigY olmayacaksa diğer ydna testlerinde (37,67,111) yine Avrupalı matchlerim olacak, olursa da Asyalı tester sayısının azlığından belki hiç match kalmayacak.

Zaten 500 dolar harcamak hiç kafama yatmıyor.

İki sorum var;

Kırgızistan'dan sayı olarak az olsa da oransal olarak çok eşleşme var ancak herhangi bir Kırgız projesi bulamadım FTDNA altında. Acaba Kırgız markerlarına erişebileceğim bir yer var mıdır?

İkincisi de eşleşmeler ile ilgili, özellikle Kafkas projelerinde 10/12 ve 11/12 lik bazı YDNA12 eşleşmeleri var, daha yüksek markerlarda örneğin YDNA37de bunların 34/37 veya 35/37 gibi yüksek eşleşmesi olağan mıdır? Bu sayede sizin de dediğiniz gibi çok fazla örneğin olduğu Kafkas örnekleri ile daha somut benzeşmeler olur ve daha alt gruplar tayin edilebilir??

Afshar
07-09-2017, 09:22 PM
Fazla markerlari yapmayin. Bigy testi icin y12 test yeterli. Mumkunse biriktirip bigy alin. Fazla marker cogu zaman daha fazla soru isareti cikartiyor. Kirgiz str verileri icin akademik arastirmalari taramaniz gerekiyor, gormuslugum var bulursunuz. Match konusunda soyle deyim, benim y12de 1step macim var ama bigy uzerinden bu kisi ile aramizda 10bin sene var, yani y12 matchler hg bilgisi disinda pek bir ise yaramaz, ama tabiki 100 sene iceriside olabilir, onun icin mail atin

alhan
07-14-2017, 08:41 AM
Farklı konuları anlamaya çalışıyorum bir süredir. Öncelikle autosomal ile ydna'nın birbirini kısmen de olsa tamamlayan sonuçlar vereceğini düşünmüştüm. Ancak görüyorum ki elimizdeki sonuçlar ikisinin de etkisini yansıtmakla birlikte aralarında basit ve çözülebilir bir ilişki yok.

Autosomal verinin geneli itibariyle artık bazı çıkarımlarda bulunabileceğimi düşünüyorum. Benimle benzer hikayeye sahip (Kafkas köken ve Doğu Anadolu yerleşik) dowpa113'ün ve Kurd tarafından referans verilen iki Kuzey Irak Kürdünün de olduğu bir karşılaştırma tablosu hazırladım.

Afshar'ın Malatya'dan bir örnek diyerek referans verdiği örnekle (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10266-Ethnic-confirmation-of-Adyghe-origin/page4) birlikte benim autosomal eşleştirmede 3. kuzenim çıkan (babamların karşı köyünden) yine bir Malatya'lı örneği de ekleyecektim ki.
Aynı kişiden bahsediyormuşuz:D
Ne diyelim dünya küçük:beerchug:

Karşılaştırmayı MDLP K23b üzerinden yapıyorum ve oracle'lara hiç girmiyorum.
Buraya tabloyu muntazam şekilde girmeyi başaramadım o yüzden imaj olarak ekliyorum aşağıya

17529

Bu tabloyu sanırım Doğu Anadolu ve Kuzey Irak populasyonlarından birkaç örneğin kısmi karşılaştırması olarak tanımlayabiliriz.

Geneli itibariyle örneklerin aynı bölgeden olduğu sonucunu çıkarmak mümkün.

Tüm örneklerle ilgili ufak tefek bilgiler vererek tabloya yansımasını kontrol edelim.
1. alhan: Family Finder %90 Middle East (Asia Minor %84, Western Middle East %6), %9 Central Asia.
Baba tarafından Kafkasya hikayesi var, autosomal veri temelinde anne ve baba tarafından çok sayıda Kürt girişi var gen havuzuna.
Buna ek olarak yine autosomal eşleşmelerin (23cm longest block) işaret ettiği muhtemel Ermeni girişi var kaynağı belirsiz.
Anne tarafından büyükdedelerde Yörük hikayesi (Erzurum Horasan'dan göç) var.

2. Autosomal 3rd cousin: Family Finder %65 Middle East (Asia Minor %58, Eastern Middle East %6, North Africa %1), %9 Central Asia, European %10).
Babamın köyüne komşu köyden. Baba tarafından Türkistan'dan göç, anne tarafından Ahısta Türklüğü (ve yine muhtemel göç!) hikayesi var. Aynı yöreden olmanın sonucu olarak çok sayıda Kürt evliliği mevcut.

3. downpa113: Family Finder %90 Middle East , %9 Central Asia
Kafkasya'dan göç hikayesi var. Büyükbabası Rusça konuşabiliyor. Kendini Kırmançi Kürdü olarak tanımlıyor. Muhtemelen Doğu/Güneydoğu Anadolu'dan.

4/5: Kurd tarafından referans verilen iki Kuzey Irak'lı (Dohuk) örnek.

Gelelim sonuçlara;

- Sonuçlar birbiriyle hayli benzeşse de Kafkasya yüzdesi Kuzey Irak dışındakilerde 3-4 puan daha yüksek.
- Kafkasya'dan çıkan 3-4 puan Kuzey Irak örneklerine South Central Asian olarak yansımış.

Bu farklılığı Kafkasya kökeni olarak yorumlamak hayli iddialı olur. Ayrıca yine okuduğum ve konu ile ilgili bilgili insanlara danıştığım kadarıyla Kuzey Kafkasya yerine Güney Kafkasya referans nüfuslarının alınması dahi Caucasian component'inin sonuçlarında bariz farklılaşmalara neden olabiliyormuş.


- Altaic komponentler (Ancestral Altaic & Tungus Altaic) düşük yüzdelerde de olsa listelere girebilmiş. Örneklerin en azından son 200 yıldır bu yörede yaşadığı dikkate alındığında yüzdeler düşükte olsa anlam ifade edebilir.


- alhan'ın R1a haplogrubunun doğu kollarının Altay, Kırgız lokasyonlarında öne çıkıyor olması ydna'nın Admix sonuçlarına yansıması olarak değerlendirilebilir.


-KurmanjiKurd1'in haplogrubu bilinmiyor ancak önemli bir Altay katkısı da burada görünüyor.



-KurmanjiKurd2 diğer örneklere kıyasla daha az etkileşime maruz kalmış gibi.


-Autosomal 3. kuzenimdeki Near East component'i tüm diğer örneklere kıyasla 2-3 puan daha az. Nedeni hem ana, hem baba tarafından gelen genlerin Anadolu dışından olması ve daha fazla korunabilmiş olmasından olabilir. Kuzey Irak örneklerinin Family Finder sonuçları bilinmese de diğer örnekler arasında en fazla Orta Asya bileşenine sahip örnek olarak dikkat çekiyor.

Sanırım örnek sayısının artması ile çıkarımlar değişebilir veya daha fazla anlam kazanabilir.

eolien
07-14-2017, 01:55 PM
Istersen bir de K36 sonuclarini koy, orada armenian, north cau. ve west cau' diye uce ayirmis

ben sana iki malatya ve bir saf cerkez ornegi vereyim

17536

alhan
07-14-2017, 02:04 PM
Istersen bir de K36 sonuclarini koy, orada armenian, north cau. ve west cau' diye uce ayirmis

ben sana iki malatya ve bir saf cerkez ornegi vereyim

17536

eolien teşekkürler. Üzerine biraz uğraşıp ayrı bir tablo hazırlamam gerekecek. Sorum şu olacak; North Caucasian ve West Caucasian referanslarının ayrı oluşu bize ayırt edici bir katkı sunacak mı??

eolien
07-14-2017, 02:16 PM
eolien teşekkürler. Üzerine biraz uğraşıp ayrı bir tablo hazırlamam gerekecek. Sorum şu olacak; North Caucasian ve West Caucasian referanslarının ayrı oluşu bize ayırt edici bir katkı sunacak mı??

sunmaz mi? sunar. bunlar tamamen farkli topluluklar.

alhan
07-14-2017, 02:36 PM
sunmaz mi? sunar. bunlar tamamen farkli topluluklar.

Malesef Kurd'ün verdiği iki Kuzey Irak'lının kit numaraları yok. Bu yüzden onları aynı tabloya yerleştiremiyorum. Geri kalanları eklediğimde sonuçlar bu şekilde;

17538

Bu sonuçlar bana sorarsanız şu sonucu veriyor. Ben de ve 3. kuşak kuzenimdeki Kuzey Kafkasya bileşeni diğer iki Malatya örneği kadar bile değil. Batı Kafkasya geni ise yaklaşık olarak aynı.

Genel olarakta tüm Malatya örneklerinden hiç biri aslında saf Çerkes'in sahip olduğu Kafkasya bileşeninin yakınından bile geçmiyor.

Tabii bu bağlamda elimde diğer iki Kuzey Irak örneğinin sonuçları olmadığı için bizimkilerle karşılaştıramıyorum.

Netice itibariyle, Kafkasya kökeni bağlamında Admix sonuçlarını kullanmak bariz bir yanılgıya taşıyor sanki. Kuzey Irak örnekleri tablosunda Kafkas bağlamında azıcıkta olsa ayrışıyorken burada herhangi bir ayrışma göremiyoruz. Aslında belki de önceki tabloda 3 puanlık farkı Kafkasya kökeninin ufak bir belirtisi olarak yorumlamanın yanlış olduğu sonucuna varıyoruz.

Autosomal sonuçların son 7 nesili taşıdığını sayarsak, en az 500 kişinin katkıda bulunduğu bir gen havuzundan bahsediyoruz. Burada Kafkasya'dan göçün 300 sene olduğunu düşünsek hiç bir kalıntının kalmamış olduğunu, admixture sonucundaki Kafkas oranlarının bölgede yerleşik 6, 5, 4, 3, 2. nesilin kendi Kafkasya bileşeni olduğunu yorumlamak mümkün sanırım.

West Caucasian ile North Caucasian ayrı bile olsa, tüm Malatya örnekleri olarak saf Çerkes'ten ne kadar ayrıştığımızı göstermesi dışında ben bir yorum yapamıyorum.

alhan
07-15-2017, 09:01 PM
I am here with new questions.

YDNA is telling me about my paternal line of ancestry. Unfortunately YDNA 12 is giving me just basic haplogroup info like R-M173.

R1a a very common haplogroup. If I paid more I would have markers like 37, 67 or 111 it would probably give more info.

Even with what I have, I have some predictions.

It's a very common haplogroup in Eastern Europe. And there is an Asian branch. As I am not really a very good candidate for European branch. I am looking for the Asian branches.

There is one subclade of Indian focus 657.
I don't think I'm on that side either.

Very likely I am Z93. Z93 is very very common in Kyrgyzistan. That's one of the most promising candidate for my paternal ancestry. Even the number of Kyrgyz testers are pretty low, I have some good matches.

Under this R1a-Z2124 is a good candidate.

When I look at the projects under FTDNA website. My YDNA12 looks a lot like the testers of higher markers who have R-M512, R-M198.

These are very common in Kyrgyzistan and interestingly in Caucasia. With a few mutation I seem to match with many people. However my 389II marker is 32 and that marker prevents me from matching many people.

Does anyone has any idea what 389II=32 means?

I wonder if that's a rare alele.

At this point I am trying to understand whether it is a good idea to have an SNP pack for R1a-Z-93. What will that tell me?
Let's say I am positive for downto YP1542. Can I conclude that my paternal line goes very likely to Kyrgyzistan?
Because even if I had y37 and learn that I am R1-M512, I will not know if I am Kyrgyz origin or if I came from Kyrgyzstan to Caucasia and than Anatolia..

dowpa113
07-15-2017, 09:21 PM
I am here with new questions.

YDNA is telling me about my paternal line of ancestry. Unfortunately YDNA 12 is giving me just basic haplogroup info like R-M173.

R1a a very common haplogroup. If I paid more I would have markers like 37, 67 or 111 it would probably give more info.

Even with what I have, I have some predictions.

It's a very common haplogroup in Eastern Europe. And there is an Asian branch. As I am not really a very good candidate for European branch. I am looking for the Asian branches.

There is one subclade of Indian focus 657.
I don't think I'm on that side either.

Very likely I am Z93. Z93 is very very common in Kyrgyzistan. That's one of the most promising candidate for my paternal ancestry. Even the number of Kyrgyz testers are pretty low, I have some good matches.

Under this R1a-Z2124 is a good candidate.

When I look at the projects under FTDNA website. My YDNA12 looks a lot like the testers of higher markers who have R-M512, R-M198.

These are very common in Kyrgyzistan and interestingly in Caucasia. With a few mutation I seem to match with many people. However my 389II marker is 32 and that marker prevents me from matching many people.

Does anyone has any idea what 389II=32 means?

I wonder if that's a rare alele.

At this point I am trying to understand whether it is a good idea to have an SNP pack for R1a-Z-93. What will that tell me?
Let's say I am positive for downto YP1542. Can I conclude that my paternal line goes very likely to Kyrgyzistan?
Because even if I had y37 and learn that I am R1-M512, I will not know if I am Kyrgyz origin or if I came from Kyrgyzstan to Caucasia and than Anatolia..

Maybe something with scytians? :)

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8254-East-Asian-Geneflow-to-Kurds

alhan
07-16-2017, 12:33 AM
Maybe something with scytians? :)

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8254-East-Asian-Geneflow-to-Kurds

I have the read the thread you refer to. I didn't quite understand.

But Syctians always comes up when looking at the Asian branch of R1a.

So, I definitely need some reading on Syctians.

dowpa113
07-16-2017, 01:40 AM
I have the read the thread you refer to. I didn't quite understand.

But Syctians always comes up when looking at the Asian branch of R1a.

So, I definitely need some reading on Syctians.

Yes, scytians where some kind of mix with Indo-Iranic and Turkic.

Throughout history, the wandering pastoral tribes of the Russian Steppes have descended on the seats of civilization in Europe and the Middle East. They have been called variously Scythians, Thracians, Cimmerians (and Kurgan Culture), Sarmatians, Cumans, Alans, Huns, Tatars, Turks, Slavs, Bulgars and Goths. In Saratov on the Lower Volga River in Russia, up to 1 in between 3 and 4 people possess this distinctive marker. In Slovenia, at the crossroads of Barbarian incursions into the Roman Empire, as many as 22% of the inhabitants carry it. It is also notable in Ashkenazi Jews, certain Mongols and some Turks. Minimal frequencies occur, on the other hand, in Asians like the Chinese or Indians. One minor branch is found in Malaysia and Australian Aboriginals, pointing to the relatedness of all humans. Another expansion centered on Egypt and became prominent among Berbers. It ran in the pharaohs—perhaps a vestige of the conquest of Egypt by a horse-bound warrior culture around 3000 BCE. This same timeframe corresponds with a general epoch in world history marking a widespread switch from female-centered societies and the Goddess religion to patriarchy and a male pantheon. Between 2 and 5 percent of Europeans on average possess this marker, depending on how far east their main ancestry originates.

https://dnaconsultants.com/scythian-gene/

http://www.ancientpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/scythians004.jpg

eolien
07-16-2017, 07:39 AM
Yes, scytians where some kind of mix with Indo-Iranic and Turkic.

Throughout history, the wandering pastoral tribes of the Russian Steppes have descended on the seats of civilization in Europe and the Middle East. They have been called variously Scythians, Thracians, Cimmerians (and Kurgan Culture), Sarmatians, Cumans, Alans, Huns, Tatars, Turks, Slavs, Bulgars and Goths. In Saratov on the Lower Volga River in Russia, up to 1 in between 3 and 4 people possess this distinctive marker. In Slovenia, at the crossroads of Barbarian incursions into the Roman Empire, as many as 22% of the inhabitants carry it. It is also notable in Ashkenazi Jews, certain Mongols and some Turks. Minimal frequencies occur, on the other hand, in Asians like the Chinese or Indians. One minor branch is found in Malaysia and Australian Aboriginals, pointing to the relatedness of all humans. Another expansion centered on Egypt and became prominent among Berbers. It ran in the pharaohs—perhaps a vestige of the conquest of Egypt by a horse-bound warrior culture around 3000 BCE. This same timeframe corresponds with a general epoch in world history marking a widespread switch from female-centered societies and the Goddess religion to patriarchy and a male pantheon. Between 2 and 5 percent of Europeans on average possess this marker, depending on how far east their main ancestry originates.

https://dnaconsultants.com/scythian-gene/

http://www.ancientpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/scythians004.jpg

It all depends whether you want to find out some facts or just stick to fanciful stories. I've told you before that Y-12 would not give you much information but you listened to others who claimed the opposite. If you don't dig enough, the only things you create will be more assumptions, hypotheses, and a lot of wishful thinking. For example R1a is very common in eastern europe including northern caucasia. i am sure not rare among kurds too. but instead you like the scythian and kyrgyz stories from far away.

alhan
07-16-2017, 06:04 PM
It all depends whether you want to find out some facts or just stick to fanciful stories. I've told you before that Y-12 would not give you much information but you listened to others who claimed the opposite. If you don't dig enough, the only things you create will be more assumptions, hypotheses, and a lot of wishful thinking. For example R1a is very common in eastern europe including northern caucasia. i am sure not rare among kurds too. but instead you like the scythian and kyrgyz stories from far away.

Dear eolien,

I understand your concern on the data quality and depth. However; as you probably know it very well, that kind of depth will cost a lot. This is why I prefered to take this road.

During my journey of geneology I asked for advise and thankfully many people helped.
Obviously I cannot follow each and every one of them.

About fanciful stories and scientific fact. I am not really sharing your view on this. Yes if I had bigY, I would have more data with scientific value and less ambiquity. But even with this I don't think everything can be explained and explained correctly.

I see this as a learning process. Learning about myself, learning about geneology and antropology. So, I still think it is a better decision to have YDNA12 first.

About R1a, don't you think it is a good idea to hear all the hypothesis.
Besides in terms of ydna match percentage. Kyrgyzistan is number one. Being this a scientific fact I don't think we can consider this as a fanciful story. This is merely another possible way down to road to my recent ancenstry.

dowpa113
07-20-2017, 04:56 PM
Dear eolien,

I understand your concern on the data quality and depth. However; as you probably know it very well, that kind of depth will cost a lot. This is why I prefered to take this road.

During my journey of geneology I asked for advise and thankfully many people helped.
Obviously I cannot follow each and every one of them.

About fanciful stories and scientific fact. I am not really sharing your view on this. Yes if I had bigY, I would have more data with scientific value and less ambiquity. But even with this I don't think everything can be explained and explained correctly.

I see this as a learning process. Learning about myself, learning about geneology and antropology. So, I still think it is a better decision to have YDNA12 first.

About R1a, don't you think it is a good idea to hear all the hypothesis.
Besides in terms of ydna match percentage. Kyrgyzistan is number one. Being this a scientific fact I don't think we can consider this as a fanciful story. This is merely another possible way down to road to my recent ancenstry.

The deeper i go, the more i get confused. I cant blame you. I belive dna make who we are and of course the environment. I now understand why i am diffrent, in a good way. Do you feel close to kyrgyz people at all?

dowpa113
07-20-2017, 05:23 PM
I love how alhan read the thread for 3 days and then answers. :behindsofa:

alhan
07-20-2017, 08:37 PM
The deeper i go, the more i get confused. I cant blame you. I belive dna make who we are and of course the environment. I now understand why i am diffrent, in a good way. Do you feel close to kyrgyz people at all?

Do I feel close to Kyrgyz? Good question..
Let me think about it:))

I wouldn't say close. I feel same way before I swabed that stick into my cheek. No difference at all.

I speak Turkish, born and raised in Turkey and I am passionately fond of my country. However I personally think that the race is not something you should be proud or ashamed of.

That's why any result will not make me sad or happy.

I find it totaly amusing and interesting to find out about my personal history.

I am part of R1a haplogroup which is one the most common haplogroups. The fact that I probably share my 13644th grandfather with thousands of people is a very interesting one.

I naturaly want to find out about his Journey to present time.

Going back to your question, I may not look like Kyrgyz at all, and do not feel like a Kyrgyz but I certainly wonder more about them. Just like Cherkessians, Azeris, and Uzbeks.

dowpa113
07-20-2017, 08:51 PM
Do I feel close to Kyrgyz? Good question..
Let me think about it:))

I wouldn't say close. I feel same way before I swabed that stick into my cheek. No difference at all.

I speak Turkish, born and raised in Turkey and I am passionately fond of my country. However I personally think that the race is not something you should be proud or ashamed of.

That's why any result will not make me sad or happy.

I find it totaly amusing and interesting to find out about my personal history.

I am part of R1a haplogroup which is one the most common haplogroups. The fact that I probably share my 13644th grandfather with thousands of people is a very interesting one.

I naturaly want to find out about his Journey to present time.

Going back to your question, I may not look like Kyrgyz at all, and do not feel like a Kyrgyz but I certainly wonder more about them. Just like Cherkessians, Azeris, and Uzbeks.

yes indeed :)

alhan
07-21-2017, 07:48 AM
Your right, i feel that it made me a better person for finding out more. But siblings can be so diffrent also, you and i may have diffrent set of dna then our siblings. Its amazing how our dna change because our forfathers experinced things in their life. How we adapt and become stronger and it marks our dna for future generations. I am very happy to meet you alhan, your very kind. You also pusched me to seek further, its all joy. :)


Dear dowpa113 thank you, I am glad to know you as well.

Obviously there are many possibilities at YDNA12 level.
Having higher markers tested would narrow the possibilities, but it is quite likely that even with Y37, Y67, I may not be able to get the detail of my desire.

My haplogroup is defined as R-M173. I am a member of many different projects under FTDNA page. Even with 12 markers I can get some similarities to several groups. Let me try to explain. First two groups Eastern Europe and India seem like distant possibilities.

With the information that I have, there are some more likely possibilities of R1a source. Namely Kyrgyzistan, Caucasia, Kurdish, Turkish.

1 - There are many matches from Eastern Europe and Norway. It's just because number of population with YDNA test is huge in this part of the world.
I just think my connection to Eastern European R1a's should at least be 20-30 thousands years old. It's very likely that we will be separated from each other to different subclades even with Y37. I am pretty sure that I am not R1A-Z284.

2 - Similarly; even though I have some matches from India, it's because of sample size. We will be probably on the Asian branch of R1a, however I will differ from L657 under Z94.

3 - Kyrgyzistan is somehow a far away location yes. But, with a limited number of samples, I can see many people having matches with a genetic distance of 1 and 2. This can very easily be understood knowing that Kyrgzistan has R1a in 63% of their total population.
In my humble opinion subclades would probably differ from mine. It seems like YP1542 is the final point of the line to the recent time. I wonder which level of ydna will be enough to go down to that level.

4 - The Caucasian story is interesting. Especially Kabardey population has some closer distance to my YDNA12. The only thing is I have DYS389II = 32. Which is not a common marker and I don't know it's just a simple mutation or I totaly belong to a different group with the same marker.

5- The last but the seemingly most likely scenario in terms of geography is Turkish&Kurdish one along with Caucasian.

At this point making some comparisons to Kurdish samples under Kurdish project of FTDNA group, due to the limited size of the group nothing seems relevant. In other words R1a does not seem like a dominant group in Kurdish population.
Although my autosomal data matches me with many Kurdish people, YDNA does not seem to support.

Turkish connection would be simple and easier choice. Here is a quote from a paper on Oghuz clans;

https://www.academia.edu/14630118/Muratov_B.A._Suyunov_R.R._Oghuz_clans_ethnogenesis _and_genogeography_-_1_BEHPS_P.648-694_Vol.2_7_1_2_July_2015_?auto=download

From the database of FTDNA, have representatives from Kayi clan — it Amudzha (XWBWW Sarmaşık, Edirne Turkey, Amuca
kabilesi). The Amudzha according to traditional family genealogy BEHP «Suyun»; Vol.2, July 2015, №7 [1,2]; ISSN:2410-1788657 considered to relatives of Ottomans. The Amudzha family has cluster — R1a-Z93:
13 25 15 11 11 14 12 12 10 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 25 14 20 34 12 15 16 16 11 12 19 23 15 15 18 19 35 39 14 11[19].
Our project recommend for members of the Amudzha family (XWBWW) order SNP Y2632, because this SNP characterize Kuns descendants among the Bashkirs. Amudzha in Turkey called the direct descendants of Ertuğrul Ghazi, he was father of the founder of the Ottoman dynasty — Osman Ghazi. The older brother of Osman Ghazi — Gunduz Alp (mean ‘Solar Hero’ — note B.M.) is ancestor of Amudzha family

Without paying a penny I am convinced that I am R1a-Z93;)
I might even dare to say that I am Z2124.

Looking at the R1a markers of Amudhza family I might claim that I am the grandson of Ertugrul Gazi.

dowpa113
07-21-2017, 01:37 PM
Dear dowpa113 thank you, I am glad to know you as well.

Obviously there are many possibilities at YDNA12 level.
Having higher markers tested would narrow the possibilities, but it is quite likely that even with Y37, Y67, I may not be able to get the detail of my desire.

My haplogroup is defined as R-M173. I am a member of many different projects under FTDNA page. Even with 12 markers I can get some similarities to several groups. Let me try to explain. First two groups Eastern Europe and India seem like distant possibilities.

With the information that I have, there are some more likely possibilities of R1a source. Namely Kyrgyzistan, Caucasia, Kurdish, Turkish.

1 - There are many matches from Eastern Europe and Norway. It's just because number of population with YDNA test is huge in this part of the world.
I just think my connection to Eastern European R1a's should at least be 20-30 thousands years old. It's very likely that we will be separated from each other to different subclades even with Y37. I am pretty sure that I am not R1A-Z284.

2 - Similarly; even though I have some matches from India, it's because of sample size. We will be probably on the Asian branch of R1a, however I will differ from L657 under Z94.

3 - Kyrgyzistan is somehow a far away location yes. But, with a limited number of samples, I can see many people having matches with a genetic distance of 1 and 2. This can very easily be understood knowing that Kyrgzistan has R1a in 63% of their total population.
In my humble opinion subclades would probably differ from mine. It seems like YP1542 is the final point of the line to the recent time. I wonder which level of ydna will be enough to go down to that level.

4 - The Caucasian story is interesting. Especially Kabardey population has some closer distance to my YDNA12. The only thing is I have DYS389II = 32. Which is not a common marker and I don't know it's just a simple mutation or I totaly belong to a different group with the same marker.

5- The last but the seemingly most likely scenario in terms of geography is Turkish&Kurdish one along with Caucasian.

At this point making some comparisons to Kurdish samples under Kurdish project of FTDNA group, due to the limited size of the group nothing seems relevant. In other words R1a does not seem like a dominant group in Kurdish population.
Although my autosomal data matches me with many Kurdish people, YDNA does not seem to support.

Turkish connection would be simple and easier choice. Here is a quote from a paper on Oghuz clans;

https://www.academia.edu/14630118/Muratov_B.A._Suyunov_R.R._Oghuz_clans_ethnogenesis _and_genogeography_-_1_BEHPS_P.648-694_Vol.2_7_1_2_July_2015_?auto=download


Without paying a penny I am convinced that I am R1a-Z93;)
I might even dare to say that I am Z2124.

Looking at the R1a markers of Amudhza family I might claim that I am the grandson of Ertugrul Gazi.

Thats a "Aha" moment right there. You where looking for the golden dna and it happends to be the founder of Ottoman empire. :biggrin1:

Gandhara
07-21-2017, 01:39 PM
I think The best way to detect your ancestral origin from your father side is to have Y dna test


Yes exactly. I think ftdna is the way to go, especially for ydna.

I disagree, the best option would be to go for autosomal test as atdna tests 22 chromosomes (96 % of your DNA), where as Ydna is just a minute portion of your DNA. He can easily identify his ethnic origin by taking any of the autosomal test , YDNA on the other hand would not be so useful in his case.

Arminius
07-21-2017, 02:58 PM
Greetings,Autosomal is important but could change due to geography even for same ethnicities.For example Armenians from Cappadocia and Arnenians from Armenia have some differences but they speak same language and they have same culture.or Greeks,Eastern Anatolian Greeks are similar to Armenians by autosomal dna,but they are culturally closer to other Anatolian Greeks,ethinicity is about mostly about cultural and can not be defined by autosomal,ydna or mtdna only,but these are great gift to help us given by technology,but in my opinion if you try to have more info about your ethnicity without culture and with the help of DNA tests i would say Y-Dna is more important than autosomal dna

alhan
07-21-2017, 03:03 PM
I disagree, the best option would be to go for[B][B] autosomal test. He can easily identify his ethnic origin by taking any of the autosomal test , YDNA on the other hand would not be so useful in his case.

It is not that easy my friend. If you mean using Autosomal data in GEDMATCH and having oracles as source of ethnic origin. It is not really working perfectly.

I have worked on mine, and many different calculators give different results.
And most of the time Turkish is out of picture.
And it's not just me.

My Armenian connection results show Iraqi.

My Chercessian friend results show Armenian and Turkish.

Arminius
07-21-2017, 03:06 PM
And Mr Alhan,for further information you should test at least 25 or 37 markers so you can see if you are still matching with your European or Central Asian matches,of course Y-12 can give you information but not enough,more markers mean more information,i would say you should upgrade to 25 markers first and if you dont have matches on 25 then you dont have yo upgrade to 37 markers,but if you can save money for BigY in future,that will give you best information

alhan
07-21-2017, 03:26 PM
And Mr Alhan,for further information you should test at least 25 or 37 markers so you can see if you are still matching with your European or Central Asian matches,of course Y-12 can give you information but not enough,more markers mean more information,i would say you should upgrade to 25 markers first and if you dont have matches on 25 then you dont have yo upgrade to 37 markers,but if you can save money for BigY in future,that will give you best information

I already memorized my markers :)

Just 12 markers obviously not enough to differ myself from rest of 1 million other testers.

bigY is very expensive. Even with the sales and coupons, it is still more than 450$.

Now, I am seriously considering R1a-Z93 SNP Pack. But I am not sure how deep I can go.

Arminius
07-21-2017, 04:11 PM
With BigY,if your Y relatives tested Bigy either, and uploaded to Yfull,you can reach to hundreds years ago.But generally due to cost of BigY and economics of Central Asians are not easy to test even Y-12

alhan
07-21-2017, 04:46 PM
With BigY,if your Y relatives tested Bigy either, and uploaded to Yfull,you can reach to hundreds years ago.But generally due to cost of BigY and economics of Central Asians are not easy to test even Y-12

Having my relatives with bigY is a very remote possibility. Spending that much and "waiting" to have someone to share some kind of match seems more likely.

Gandhara
07-21-2017, 05:26 PM
I think The best way to detect your ancestral origin from your father side is to have Y dna test


It is not that easy my friend. If you mean using Autosomal data in GEDMATCH and having oracles as source of ethnic origin. It is not really working perfectly.

I have worked on mine, and many different calculators give different results.
And most of the time Turkish is out of picture.

And it's not just me.

My Armenian connection results show Iraqi.

My Chercessian friend results show Armenian and Turkish.

Lets say u want to confirm your Turkish roots and you go with the Y haplogrop approach. The problem is that Turkey has the following Y haplo distribution and more or less has all of the Y haplos that are found in other countries as well.

https://i.gyazo.com/28b408a9726d0c4d6f0372a805881a22.png

https://i.gyazo.com/5056c645aaa4d4b948a17ee56ac0fa55.png

Which one would you pick as an indicator that would prove that your have Turkish root? and why?

alhan
07-21-2017, 05:41 PM
Which one would you pick as an indicator that would prove that your have Turkish root? and why?

I understand your point. I agree with you to a point.

If you have some time please read my previous posts in this thread to see what is my experience so far.

I have the results from different calculators on page4 please have look.

And if you really think it is easy, I'd be glad to hear your thoughts on my etnic background. I can give you my kit number on GEDMATCH as well.

Gandhara
07-21-2017, 05:50 PM
I understand your point. I agree with you to a point.

If you have some time please read my previous posts in this thread to see what is my experience so far.

I have the results from different calculators on page4 please have look.

And if you really think it is easy, I'd be glad to hear your thoughts on my etnic background. I can give you my kit number on GEDMATCH as well.

My Thoughts : You are half Adyghe and half Turkish and atDNA calculators should be able to pick that. Your closest matches on Gedmatch should either be Turks or the Adyghe. YDNA test would not be decisive in my opinion.

alhan
07-21-2017, 06:01 PM
My Thoughts : You are half Adyghe and half Turkish and atDNA calculators should be able to pick that. Your closest matches on Gedmatch should either be Turks or the Adyghe. YDNA test would not be decisive in my opinion.

Yes, exactly.

That's my point. GEDMATCH does not show anything close to that.

Afshar
07-21-2017, 07:11 PM
I disagree, the best option would be to go for autosomal test as atdna tests 22 chromosomes (96 % of your DNA), where as Ydna is just a minute portion of your DNA. He can easily identify his ethnic origin by taking any of the autosomal test , YDNA on the other hand would not be so useful in his case.

Yes but take in consideration it is not a full chromosomal test but just a subset of snps that you will share in all ancestral lines whereas ydna is only in the paternal line where ts suspects his adyghe ancestry. Turkey is ethnic complex in a lot of regions where you wont see a lot of difference in autosomal makeup

Gandhara
07-21-2017, 08:21 PM
Yes but take in consideration it is not a full chromosomal test but just a subset of snps that you will share in all ancestral lines whereas ydna is only in the paternal line where ts suspects his adyghe ancestry. Turkey is ethnic complex in a lot of regions where you wont see a lot of difference in autosomal makeup

Say that his Y DNA comes out to be a sub branch of R , now how can this confirm that R is Turkish caz Turkey has 10-15 other haplogroups , how would you brand some of these as purely Turkish and others as not? complex eh?

Gandhara
07-21-2017, 08:22 PM
Yes, exactly.

That's my point. GEDMATCH does not show anything close to that.

The reason could be that not may Turks and Adghe uploaded their data on Gedmatch, that's my take!

Afshar
07-21-2017, 08:49 PM
Say that his Y DNA comes out to be a sub branch of R , now how can this confirm that R is Turkish caz Turkey has 10-15 other haplogroups , how would you brand some of these as purely Turkish and others as not? complex eh?

There are branches that are more common among Turkic people. Unless his adyghe ancestor is within 4 generations he cannot distinguish his autosomal makeup from people from the same geographical region. A close trmca with an ydna match is a good indication where to look at, but offcourse for good confidence it requires more markers or at best bigy

alhan
07-21-2017, 09:11 PM
There are branches that are more common among Turkic people. Unless his adyghe ancestor is within 4 generations he cannot distinguish his autosomal makeup from people from the same geographical region. A close trmca with an ydna match is a good indication where to look at, but offcourse for good confidence it requires more markers or at best bigy

I don't think we should be so certain about which is best.

Because it changes.

Autosomal data could have answer my questions. If I had Turkish and Adygea domination and may be a little bit of Kurdish and Armenian. I would be satisfied with the results.

Having Kurdish in Malatya which is East of Turkey is just normal and I am aware of some Kurdish ancestry. But Turkish is very underrated. Besides no sign of Adygea in most of the calculators.

I think in most of the calculators Eastern Anatolia population considered as "Kurdish North" reference without going into detail.

When this is the case any people in Eastern Anatolia will have Kurdish as the dominant etnic population in the Oracles.

And absence of Adygea is very likely because of distant history. Now I think if there is really a migration from Caucasia, it is probably more than 300 years ago.

That way I can explain that it's gone from the autosomal data.

On the other hand even with Ydna12. I can eliminate some of the possibilities. I am R-M173. R1a is a very common and known hg.

But it is not as common in our region as it is in Eastern Europe. Exluding Eastern Europe, Sweden, Scotland Asian branches can be narrowed down with some markers.

And more importantly a lot less speculation in YDNA compared to GEDMATCHs.

Of course there are drawbacks in each one, I think we should try to incorporate the data and have the best explanation that is possible.

Gandhara
07-21-2017, 09:48 PM
I don't think we should be so certain about which is best.

Because it changes.

Autosomal data could have answer my questions. If I had Turkish and Adygea domination and may be a little bit of Kurdish and Armenian. I would be satisfied with the results.

Having Kurdish in Malatya which is East of Turkey is just normal and I am aware of some Kurdish ancestry. But Turkish is very underrated. Besides no sign of Adygea in most of the calculators.

I think in most of the calculators Eastern Anatolia population considered as "Kurdish North" reference without going into detail.

When this is the case any people in Eastern Anatolia will have Kurdish as the dominant etnic population in the Oracles.

And absence of Adygea is very likely because of distant history. Now I think if there is really a migration from Caucasia, it is probably more than 300 years ago.

That way I can explain that it's gone from the autosomal data.

On the other hand even with Ydna12. I can eliminate some of the possibilities. I am R-M173. R1a is a very common and known hg.

But it is not as common in our region as it is in Eastern Europe. Exluding Eastern Europe, Sweden, Scotland Asian branches can be narrowed down with some markers.

And more importantly a lot less speculation in YDNA compared to GEDMATCHs.

Of course there are drawbacks in each one, I think we should try to incorporate the data and have the best explanation that is possible.

I think you have answered your own question here. A lot of ethnicities like for instance Adygea are either under represented or not captured at all in all the ancestry calculators available. It is a undoable task and not possible with the current resources available to the companies.

alhan
07-22-2017, 06:28 PM
I think you have answered your own question here. A lot of ethnicities like for instance Adygea are either under represented or not captured at all in all the ancestry calculators available. It is a undoable task and not possible with the current resources available to the companies.

I am not in a position to judge which calculator has a better value in terms of their references. Obviously, some of the assumptions related to references are not true.

I think it would be a lot more usefull, if these tests were affordable.

Clearly, Europe has a lot more depth because they are better represented.
On the other hand Central Asian countries and even a country like Turkey has very limited testers. Turkey Project in FTDNA has just around 500 people. In Turkey variation is drastic as well.

alhan
08-01-2017, 02:12 PM
There is a huge discount in FTDNA. BigY is 395$.

It's quite tempting. I might do the crazy thing and upgrade B)

What will I get, does it worth? Can I answer my questions?

What do you guys think?

Afshar
08-01-2017, 02:52 PM
Yaptir bence fiyat cok iyi suan ben 525 odemistim indirimli hemde.

alhan
08-02-2017, 06:08 AM
Yaptir bence fiyat cok iyi suan ben 525 odemistim indirimli hemde.

BigY için ödemeyi yaptım ve rahatladım. Sanıyorum bundan sonra bir tek YFull kalıyor. Neyse ki yolun sonuna geldikB)

Afshar
08-02-2017, 06:24 AM
Hayirli olsun cok cabuk tamamladin. Yfull 49 dolar.

alhan
08-11-2017, 11:30 AM
Still waiting for BigY results:)

alhan
08-17-2017, 01:12 PM
While waiting for BigY results.

I've uploaded my autosomal data to MyHeritage and got the results for "Ethnicity Estimates"

Here the results from MyHeritageDNA jury;)

Asia
80,2%
(West Asia 77,1% + South Asia 3,1%)

Europe
10,7%
(South Europe 10,7%)
Greek

Middle East 9,1%
18201

This is what it says for West Asian component:

West Asian
The people of modern-day Iran and Turkey trace their genetic heritage to the ancient Persians and the Turkic ethnic people, respectively. The ancient Persians were nomads who entered the region in the 10th century BCE, while Turkey was home to early hunter-gatherers in its prehistory and was eventually Hellenized by Alexander the Great. The predominant cultures and languages of Western Asia are Persian, Turkic, and Arabic and its largest religious groups are Shia and Sunni Islam with religious and ethno-religious minorities such as Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, and Baha'is also present. The Persian rug is a well-known component of local culture; Iranians were the earliest people in history to weave carpets and today produce more rugs and carpets than the rest of the world put together. Many historians also link the advent of human rights to this region, with the Cyrus Cylinder of the Achaemenid Persian Empire often referred to as the world’s oldest declaration of universal human rights.

alhan
08-17-2017, 01:28 PM
As a reminder let me share interpretation of my autosomal data from FTDNA (MyOrigins), MyHeritage, and DNA.LAND

MyHeritage
Asia 80,2% (West Asia 77,1% + South Asia 3,1%)
Europe 10,7% (South Europe 10,7%) Greek
Middle East 9,1%

MyOrigins
Middle Eastern 90%(Asia Minor 84% + West Middle East 6%)
Central/South Asian 9% (Central Asia 9% Oceania 0% South Central Asia 0%)

DNA.LAND

West Eurasian 100%
Central Indoeuropean 78%
Central Asian 9.9%
Indo-Iranian 6.2%
Kalash 3.7%
Arab/Egyptian 5.3%
Balkan 2.7%
Ambiguous 2.2%
Ashkenazi 2%

All three interpreters suggest around 80-90 % of Anatolian (MyHeritage cover also Iranian land)
MyHeritage does not have any Central Asian (just 3% South Asia), However both MyOrigins and DNA.LAND has around 10% Central Asia.

And probably this 10% Central Asian goes to Greece in MyHeritage.

Interestingly DNA.LAND has Arab/Egyptian 5,3% (In MyOrigins it is under West Middle East 6%)
Balkan 2.7%
Ashkenazi 2.2 %

Alkaevli
08-17-2017, 01:33 PM
Tebrikler alhan, anne tarafın Türk galiba. Başka kit sipariş etmeyi düşünüyor musun aile üyelerin için? Yoksa sadece Y-DNA'ya mı odaklanacaksın?

Alkaevli
08-17-2017, 01:38 PM
Y-DNA sonuçlarının gelmesi ne kadar sürdü? Ben Y-12 sipariş ettim, hala bekliyorum.

alhan
08-17-2017, 01:48 PM
Tebrikler alhan, anne tarafın Türk galiba. Başka kit sipariş etmeyi düşünüyor musun aile üyelerin için? Yoksa sadece Y-DNA'ya mı odaklanacaksın?

Y-DNA sonuçlarının gelmesi ne kadar sürdü? Ben Y-12 sipariş ettim, hala bekliyorum.

Teşekkürler, anne tarafı Türk evet. Tabii gen konusuna gelince öyle kalın çizgilerle evet te denilmiyor ya biz öyle biliyoruz diyelim.

Önce Family Finder sonra YDNA12 yaptırdım. Verilen sonuçlanma süresinden daha kısa zamanda sonuçlanıyor. Yanlış hatırlamıyorsam 4 Mayısta sipariş ettim, elime geçmesi, kitin geri dönmesi ve değerlendirmelerin tamamlanması hepsi dahil 26 Haziran'ı buldu. Yani kabaca 2 aya yakın bir süre tüm süreç Family Finder için. YDNA12'de ise 5 Haziran gibi sipariş ettim kit zaten onlarda olduğu için 3 Temmuz'da elime geçti. Yani 1 ayda tamamlanmış oldu.

Şu an için de indirimden ısmarladığım BigY sonuçlarını bekliyorum. Muhtemelen Eylül ortasını bulacak gibi.

Alkaevli
08-17-2017, 01:53 PM
Teşekkürler, anne tarafı Türk evet. Tabii gen konusuna gelince öyle kalın çizgilerle evet te denilmiyor ya biz öyle biliyoruz diyelim.

Önce Family Finder sonra YDNA12 yaptırdım. Verilen sonuçlanma süresinden daha kısa zamanda sonuçlanıyor. Yanlış hatırlamıyorsam 4 Mayısta sipariş ettim, elime geçmesi, kitin geri dönmesi ve değerlendirmelerin tamamlanması hepsi dahil 26 Haziran'ı buldu. Yani kabaca 2 aya yakın bir süre tüm süreç Family Finder için. YDNA12'de ise 5 Haziran gibi sipariş ettim kit zaten onlarda olduğu için 3 Temmuz'da elime geçti. Yani 1 ayda tamamlanmış oldu.

Şu an için de indirimden ısmarladığım BigY sonuçlarını bekliyorum. Muhtemelen Eylül ortasını bulacak gibi.

Ben de Family Finder ve Y-12 sipariş ettim. Family Finder sonuçlarım geldi şimdi Y12'yi bekliyorum, o biraz daha uzun sürüyor sanırım. Family Finder sonuçlarımı başlık açıp paylaşacaktım ama yeni üye olduğum için link ve görsel koyamıyorum, birkaç gün geçmesi gerekiyormuş.

alhan
08-17-2017, 03:12 PM
Ben de Family Finder ve Y-12 sipariş ettim. Family Finder sonuçlarım geldi şimdi Y12'yi bekliyorum, o biraz daha uzun sürüyor sanırım. Family Finder sonuçlarımı başlık açıp paylaşacaktım ama yeni üye olduğum için link ve görsel koyamıyorum, birkaç gün geçmesi gerekiyormuş.

Family Finder sonuçlarınız geldiyse ham verilerinizi öncelikle GEDMATCH sonra DNALAND, MyHeritage gibi sitelere yükleyip oradaki eşleşmelere de bakabilirsiniz.

alhan
09-11-2017, 09:02 AM
Komşu başlığı işgal etmemek adına buradan devam etmek istedim. Anabasis'e teşekkürler. Yeni bir pencere açtı.


MDLP


Full Table
[1] "distance%=2.0409 / distance=0.020409"


Alhan
"Kakheti" 28.4
"Armenian_Yerevan" 13
"Georgian_Imereti" 11.05
"Brahui" 9.75
"BedouinB" 7.15
"Sardinian" 6.3
"Armenian" 4.45
"Balochi" 3.65
"Georgian" 2.95
"Ulchi" 2.6
"Assyrian_Iraqi" 1.45
"Parsi" 1.45
"Georgian_Laz" 1.3
"Kalash" 1.3
"Assyrian_Arzni" 0.8
"Vysya" 0.75
"Tubalar" 0.6
"Velama" 0.6
"Iraqi_Jew" 0.55
"Jew_Tat" 0.55
"Georgian_Megrelia" 0.25
"GujaratiD_GIH" 0.25
"Iraqi_Chaldean" 0.2
"Velamas" 0.15
"Georgian_Svan" 0.1
"Wichi" 0.1
"Georgian_Tbilisi" 0.05
"Karitiana" 0.05
"Kurd_North" 0.05
"Meghawal" 0.05
"Naidu" 0.05
"Pakistani" 0.05


Restricted Mod

[1] "distance%=2.0094 / distance=0.020094"


Alhan
"Kakheti" 44.35
"Armenian_Yerevan" 12.85
"Parsi" 11.75
"Brahui" 10.8
"Sardinian" 6.85
"BedouinB" 6.5
"Georgian_Imereti" 3.9
"Ulchi" 3



Harappa



Full TABLE
[1] "distance%=0.3088 / distance=0.003088"


Alhan
"assyrian_harappa" 26.1
"armenian_yunusbayev" 16.8
"kurd_yunusbayev" 7.2
"brahui_hgdp" 6.85
"Georgian-Mtiul" 6.55
"Georgian-Imereti" 5.35
"sardinian_hgdp" 4.9
"Laz" 4.7
"iraq-jew_behar" 3.75
"bhatia_harappa" 3.1
"Georgia" 2.25
"georgian_behar" 2.1
"balochi_hgdp" 1.7
"azerbaijan-jew_behar" 1.35
"armenian_behar" 1.05
"yakut_hgdp" 1
"iranian-jew_behar" 1
"japanese_1000genomes" 0.4
"karitiana_hgdp" 0.4
"evenki_rasmussen" 0.4
"brahmin-uttaranchal_metspalu" 0.4
"gujarati-a_1000genomes" 0.4
"Georgian-Ratcha" 0.4
"buryat_rasmussen" 0.3
"kurd_xing" 0.25
"punjabi-arain_xing" 0.2
"punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa" 0.15
"san_hgdp" 0.1
"surui_hgdp" 0.1
"colombian_hgdp" 0.1
"buryat_xing" 0.1
"mongolian_rasmussen" 0.1
"spain-basc_henn2012" 0.1
"iraqi-mandaean_harappa" 0.1
"gujarati-patel_harappa" 0.1
"Georgian-Khevsur" 0.1
"kashmiri_harappa" 0.05

Restricted Mod

[1] "distance%=0.8225 / distance=0.008225"


Alhan
"assyrian_harappa" 47.4
"kurd_yunusbayev" 18.3
"georgian_behar" 13.6
"bhatia_harappa" 7.95
"sardinian_hgdp" 6.05
"brahui_hgdp" 4.05
"yakut_hgdp" 2.1
"Georgian-Imereti" 0.55


MDLP K23b
Alhan
"Kakheti" 44.35
"Armenian_Yerevan" 12.85
"Parsi" 11.75
"Brahui" 10.8
"Sardinian" 6.85
"BedouinB" 6.5
"Georgian_Imereti" 3.9
"Ulchi" 3

Harappa
Alhan
"assyrian_harappa" 47.4
"kurd_yunusbayev" 18.3
"georgian_behar" 13.6
"bhatia_harappa" 7.95
"sardinian_hgdp" 6.05
"brahui_hgdp" 4.05
"yakut_hgdp" 2.1
"Georgian-Imereti" 0.55



MDLP k23B sonuçlarınızı yazarsanız nMontede çoklu sonuçlarınızı yazabilirim.

Kendimi örnek vermek gerekirse; modern toplulukların aşağıdaki oranlarda karışımıyım.

(önemli not kalkulatörlerde populasyon ortaamaarı ve kalkulator ana verileri farklı kalitede dna test sonuçlarından oluşturulduğundan tam anlamıyla gerçek sonuç vermez ama aynı şey oracllar içinde geçerlidir. nMonte oracle gibi karışım populayson sayısını 4 ile sınırlandırmaz, populasyon listesindei tüm sonuçları değerlendirir ve ona göre sonuç verir.)

nMonte ile Oracle'ların sistematiğiyle ilgili uygun karşılaştırmayı yapacak kadar bilgim yok.

Tek başına nMonte sonuçlarına bakınca şunu görüyorum.

Öncelikle MDLP K23b nMonte sonuçlarında Kakheti %44 ile en önde. Kakheti'nin ne olduğunu dahi bilmiyordum. Anlıyorum ki Gürcistan'ın Azerbaycana komşu olduğu coğrafyanın adı. Bunun yanı sıra diğer bazı Gürcü unsurları önde gözüküyor. Ermeni bileşenleri de devreye sokunca MDLP K23b'nin nMonte sonuçlarında Kafkasya'nın en öne taşındığını görüyorum.
Brahui, Balochi nispeten daha düşük yüzdelerde olmakla birlikte diğer bir grup olarak sayılabilir sanırım. Bu coğrafyalarla Kürt bileşenin benzeşeceğini düşünebilirdim. Ama KurdNorth bileşeninin kendisi olduğu için yanlış bir çıkarım mı yapmış olurum bilemiyorum.

Alkaevli'nin de sıralaması benzeşiyordu. Özellikle ilk iki sıra. Dolayısıyla Sivas ve Malatya sonuçlarının nMonte'de birbirine benzeştiğini söyleyebiliriz. Anabasis'in MDLP K23b sonuçlarına bakınca buradaki ilginç nokta Assyrian_Arzni'nin en önde gelişi. Halbuki Asurluların daha güneydoğuya ait olduğunu düşünürsek benim sonucumda en önde çıkmasını beklerdim. Kakheti'de hiç gözükmüyor. Ama Laz tahmin edildiği şekilde 2. sıraya gelebilmiş. Bu bakımdan gerçekçi olarak yorumlanabilir Anabasis'in profilini gözönünde bulundurunca.

Genel olarak nMonte sonuçlarındaki kompozisyonu nasıl yorumlayabiliriz, gerçekçi midir soru işareti.

Gelelim Harappa sonuçlarına;

Asurlu (modern topluluklardan bahsediyorsak Süryani mi demeliyim??), Ermeni en önde ve ağırlıklı hemen arkalarından Kurd geliyor. Sanki Harappa genel olarak benim Oracle'larda aldığım sonuçlara daha benzeşen bir sonuç veriyor gibi. Bir noktaya da işaret etmekte fayda görüyorum.

Alkaevli'nin sonuçlarıyla da benzeşiyorum.

Alkaevli ile sonuçlarımızı karşılaştırdığımda nMonte'de Türk bileşeni olmadığı için benzer sonuçlarımız varken, Oracle'larda Alkaevli'nin Türk genetik yakınlığının genel olarak daha fazla öne çıktığını görüyorum.

Tabii hepsi yorumlarınıza açık:)

alhan
09-29-2017, 08:06 AM
Dear friends, now I'm announcing the result of the grand jury for the final Haplogroup information.

Just kidding, I just got the results of my Big Y test.

I am R-FGC64132.

It turns out that I am not Z93.
I am happy because I was thinking of risking and having a Z93 SNP Pack. Probably that would be a waste of 119$.

On the other hand, I'm a bit disappointed that in some other project R-FGC64133 stated to be formed 3400 ybp. Besides, I cannot judge if my BigY matches are close or not. I am sharing 17 novel variants with just one person from the region and many matches with 12 shared novel variants. Is this close for my branch?

And of course the question is where I belong on the haplotree and if it is still going to be 3400 ybp?

I am a member of R1a group on FTDNA. It seem like I am not placed under any of the existing cluster.

I am a bit puzzled because there is only one other R-FGC64132 and he is in the Levantine cluster.
Having most of my autosomal matches from Dersim area, I was expecting to be positioned there in the Dersim Cluster. Nope.

I am alone waiting in my own cluster.

And yes I will have my raw data and submit it to YFull. Waiting for my BAM file to be produced.

maydonez
03-11-2018, 10:09 AM
Thank you very much for the answer. This is my dilemma actually, As you correctly stated "normally adyghe people speak an adyghe dialect and have tribal/clan associations". We don't have any of this.

Our understanding is that they migrated from Caucasia around 1850, that matches with the general concept of "1864 migration from Caucasia to Anatolia"; and they established a village in Malatya named Alhanuşağı, after their name "Alhan".

But the Adyghe dialect is not spoken in the village, not even a word. The explanation for this is that "they needed to hide their ethnicity!". I know that many Caucasion origined people lived in Anatolia peacefully. If they weren't so certain about being "Çerkes", I would just ignore what they are saying.

That's the reasoning beyond my Genetic test queries:) This way I can indirectly confirm their claim



Can you elaborate more on "caucasian component"? Are we talking about G2 haplogroup? If it is not too much trouble can you share his test results?:angel:

First things first, :)
I believe a PCA can help you to see if you cluster with Caucasians. There are some users here, providing this information for a small contribution.
I am sure there are many people here who can help you with that better than me.

Secondly, as an Adyghe, I am 100% sure that Malatya, Alhanuşağı is not a Circassian village. We would have known it, even if you would have lost the identity :)
The village was long before there the Circassians came to Anatolia, its originally an Armenian village (that doesn't indicate to a direct Armenian origin of course, but you can dig into it).

Also, there is no such thing as "they needed to hide their ethnicity" :) especially in Adyghe, Abkhaz and Chechen villages. We never had such problems. It is true that we were deprived from getting education in our mother tongues but we never faced any restriction to speak our language. If it were a North Caucasian village(Abkhaz, Adyghe or Chechen), it would be impossible to lose the identity so fast, as a whole village. Especially within our community, where tribal connections means the world.

I believe, considering the village's and Malatya's history, it would be a good start to dig probable Armenian (or even Kurdish origin) or to look for South Caucasian results, than to start with a North Caucasian. The chances sound better.

Also, I would like to correct a little part. There is no such thing as Circassian migration, as we did not migrate. We were exiled. "forced migration" is the true term.

alhan
03-12-2018, 06:00 AM
First things first, :)
I believe a PCA can help you to see if you cluster with Caucasians. There are some users here, providing this information for a small contribution.
I am sure there are many people here who can help you with that better than me.

The thing is it's been quite a while since I wrote this. At least several DNA tests before that helped me it's a remote possibility to have such a direct connection to Caucasia. I might have remote connection to Caucasia with relatively high Caucasian component in most of Gedmatch calculators. However; it's really impractical to conclude this as a source to Adyghe ethnicity.

But that doesn't change the fact that, ancestors on my paternal side was insisting in saying that they were Cherkess' descendants. This Cherkess could easily be the name of the person.
This is the most likely scenario. But it still sounds oddly strange to call yourself Cherkess if you are not. Anyway, if we are here to discuss the geneology; geneology says I am as close to Cherkess to any other ethnicity in the Caucasia region, and I am a lot closer to Kurdish, Turkish and even Iranian.

There was a tiny possibility of Tatarian origin, because of YDNA haplogroup. As I was matching with several Tatar people, after BigY that has come to an end as well.


First things first, :)
Secondly, as an Adyghe, I am 100% sure that Malatya, Alhanuşağı is not a Circassian village. We would have known it, even if you would have lost the identity
The village was long before there the Circassians came to Anatolia, its originally an Armenian village (that doesn't indicate to a direct Armenian origin of course, but you can dig into it).
I really appreciate your contribution into this. I've been searching for Alhanuşağı for a while now, but this village seems like a newly established village. The oldest record belongs to 1894, in that record the village is called Alhan village. And my E-devlet records goes back to 1855 on my patrilineal line in this village. I do have lots of maps of Malatya, belong to previous era; none including Alhan village. It might have been renamed after the original (Armenian) name, but I cannot find the name.
Therefore I would be glad if you can provide me any information regarding "Armenian" background of the village.
I am pretty sure, there were Armenians before Turks and Kurds, as there are remnants of a church. But it's hard to understand which historical era these remnants belongs to.

Actually I did dig into Armenians of the area, Armenians are seen in Arapkir and Harput most commonly. For the last 2 centuries most of the Armenians of the region migrated to cities, before they left Anatolia.

I do have some Armenian matches, but when I consider the diversity in my gene pool, it seems like a small contribution. I say this because it is a very common story to have Armenian background and hide it. (as you explained rightfully below, being a Muslim Caucasian was not something to hide)
In my case it seems like my ancestors has "kept" some Armenian boy or (more likely) a girl and that person was the contribution to my gene pool.


First things first, :)
Also, there is no such thing as "they needed to hide their ethnicity" especially in Adyghe, Abkhaz and Chechen villages. We never had such problems. It is true that we were deprived from getting education in our mother tongues but we never faced any restriction to speak our language. If it were a North Caucasian village(Abkhaz, Adyghe or Chechen), it would be impossible to lose the identity so fast, as a whole village. Especially within our community, where tribal connections means the world.

I believe, considering the village's and Malatya's history, it would be a good start to dig probable Armenian (or even Kurdish origin) or to look for South Caucasian results, than to start with a North Caucasian. The chances sound better.


You do have good points. And I am not disagreeing with anyone of them, but as I pointed above my argument comes from a nonscientific point of "Cherkessian claim" of the elderly in the village.
I simply ignore this claim for now, considering all the data I have. Until of course if some other reasonable data comes up.

As for "forced migration". I didn't mean to offend Adyghea people in anyway. I have no doubt this migration was forced. At some point it has even turned to massacre of Caucasian people.

eolien
03-12-2018, 11:07 PM
Hi Alhan,

I am curious which record of 1894 mentions your village, strangely enough i have 2 maps of 20th century of malatya, i also cannot find your village at first glance.

alhan
03-13-2018, 06:25 AM
Hi Alhan,

I am curious which record of 1894 mentions your village, strangely enough i have 2 maps of 20th century of malatya, i also cannot find your village at first glance.

https://www.yumpu.com/tr/document/view/12191764/tc-malatya-valiligi-cevre-ve-sehircilik-bakanlg/245

This is where I've found it. This book is prepared by the Governorship of Malatya. It's a good source to learn more about the old names and the new names for the villages. Besides there is population information.

As I mentioned before my oldest generation in Alhanusagi village has a birth record of 1855. I think even by then they were residing in this village.

However; in the book by Dr Goknur Gogebakan "XVI. Yüzyılda Malatya Kazası", Alhanusagi is not there. Geographically, it should be located between Gevanis (Kamistas), Bahri (Erenli), İspendere (Bulutlu). But it's not there.

maydonez
03-26-2018, 03:35 PM
No problem, not offended.
Just wanted to correct.


I really appreciate your contribution into this. I've been searching for Alhanuşağı for a while now, but this village seems like a newly established village. The oldest record belongs to 1894, in that record the village is called Alhan village. And my E-devlet records goes back to 1855 on my patrilineal line in this village. I do have lots of maps of Malatya, belong to previous era; none including Alhan village. It might have been renamed after the original (Armenian) name, but I cannot find the name.
Therefore I would be glad if you can provide me any information regarding "Armenian" background of the village.
I am pretty sure, there were Armenians before Turks and Kurds, as there are remnants of a church. But it's hard to understand which historical era these remnants belongs to.

Actually I did dig into Armenians of the area, Armenians are seen in Arapkir and Harput most commonly. For the last 2 centuries most of the Armenians of the region migrated to cities, before they left Anatolia.

As for Alhanuşağı, it doesn't matter if it was established as a village in 1800's; the village itself is on the ancient Roman road (called cursus publicus) connecting Melitene(today: Malatya) to Metita(today: Gölbucağı), Barsalivm, Charmodara and Samosata respectively; Melitene and Samosata being the big cities in the region and others are only in-between stops.
These two cities are the most important proof for the Armenian presence, as Melitene was an important city and established as the capital of the Eastern Roman Armenia by Theodosius I; also Samosata was a city in the Kingdom of Armenia. Later on(also before), different Roman kingdoms, empires, etc ruled the region under different names but the roads were in use even during the middle ages, so was the presence of Armenians continued.
These are only a small part of the complete Tabula Peutingeriana; an ancient Roman road map from the 13th century but going back as early as the 4th century in different forms.
It is not necessary that Alhanuşağı was a village back than, the area where the village lies today might have been just plain fields that people simply passed by or could only have been a resting spot(sort of a small caravanserai) but it is also difficult to say anything before seeing the ruins(and they might not even from the Roman times; as we also can't find any mentioned agoras, theaters or temples in Melitene itself).
Though, being on the Tabula Peutingeriana is more than enough for us to realise the presence of road connections and possible settlements.

alhan
03-27-2018, 07:45 AM
it doesn't matter if it was established as a village in 1800's; the village itself is on the ancient Roman road (called cursus publicus) connecting Melitene(today: Malatya) to Metita(today: Gölbucağı), Barsalivm, Charmodara and Samosata respectively; Melitene and Samosata being the big cities in the region and others are only in-between stops.


I have had a look at ancient roads. Alhanuşağı was close and overlooking to the road from mountanious area.

Alhanuşağı's current location is on the high land (about 400 meters higher elevation compared to the valley).

I think it was preferred because of its height. It was relatively safer considering the historical background. Probably my ancestors settled there because they were outlaws back then.

In my opinion it was similarly inhabited by Armenian residents in mid ages as well.

Alanson
03-27-2018, 08:31 AM
I've heard that "Cherkez" was the generic name for all Caucasian migrants to Turkey. You wouldn't necessarily be Circassian if you have no tribal affiliations that you know about, but you could be something else like Ossete/Alan, or even Caucasian Turkic people such as Balkars or Kumyk etc.

Cherkez is the generic name of all Caucasians in Mideast and probably Turkey to. For example despite the large amount of Circassian/Adyghe immigrants to the Mideast especially Syria, North and Western Iraq, as well Jordan. Many other Caucasians followed them there like Balkars, Karachays, and Nogais who all in fact assimilated into the Cherkez fold. Even the Mongoloid Nogai have been associated with the Cherkerz. That said in Iraq and Jordan you will find interesting phenotypes there. In some areas like Iraq you will find some Cherkez have become dark skinned and nothing like their original ancestor. I mean quite dark. Also in one family the brother and sister can have radically different phenotypes. I have some people like that in my family who are quite light with light hair and eyes, and some are swarthy. First a lot of the first wave of Cherkez immigrants to the Mideast were single men who did not bring their wives,so they married local Arab Bedouin women, usually this was not really accepted by tribesmen, but due to them being Muslim it lessened the pressure, and such marriages took place, as some thought it would be more beneficial due to many Cherkez having high position within the Ottoman admin. That said a lot of Cherkez would also marry into Kurdish families in northern Iraq. If you go to Jordan you will dark skinned Cherkez who clearly have Arabian Bedouin maternal lineages. However before some Bedouin sheikhs married Cherkez woman but they did not have the same status, this was only confined to Syria, less so in Iraq for example. Only in modern times that there has been ongoing intermarriage with Arab men and Circassian women, but like said the Circassian in the Mideast are mixed and not pure and hence the wild range of pheno they have. Some still kept their original pheno but many got darker. It's also interesting when you think about it because in Iraq, they married with the local Arab Bedouin woman, in Syria and Jordan it was mostly Chekerz woman marrying into, and in Turkey they mixed with men and women, which is also happening in the Arab world.

Another aspect that it's Caucasians often feel close to each other and hence formed cultural group within. Azeris are not seen as part of the Cherkez, and are often grouped with either Persians or Turkomans. Well Armenians are seen as their own distinct group.

alhan
04-04-2018, 10:59 AM
Another aspect that it's Caucasians often feel close to each other and hence formed cultural group within. Azeris are not seen as part of the Cherkez, and are often grouped with either Persians or Turkomans. Well Armenians are seen as their own distinct group.

It is been a while I've started this thread. It's geneologically very certain that I have no recent Circassian ancestry. Instead I have strong ties to Iran and Azerbaijan with strong Azeri ancestry. Besides I have several Iranian autosomal matches.

As you suggest, my connection to Persians, Azeris are stronger.

Now I am trying to understand where in Iran my common ancestors with my matches lived.