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View Full Version : Taiwan aborigine look more Caucasian than Central Asian Turks , Southeast Asian. Why?



Thepowerrangers
04-16-2017, 05:44 AM
A lot of people here don't know anything about these people. They are indigenous people of Taiwan until the Chinese conquered it and migrate to their land. Something doesn't make sense to me at all. I had look on various Y-DNA, mtDNA and including atDNA of Taiwanese aborigines and clearly all show 100% Mongoloid/East Eurasian in every study. A lot of them are with mixed Han Chinese but genetically they are still the most purest group in terms of East Eurasian. Their haplogroup is O and their mtDNA is also typical D, B, F females yet physically they look more Caucasian ( or is it pseudo-caucasian, non-Mongoloid appearance ? ) than any Mongoloid DNA mixed ethnic groups that I've seen. Their morphology appear strongly Caucasian influence.

Depending on which study genetics shows Southeast Asians to be only 77-80% East Eurasians and Central Asian Turks like Kazakhs, Kyrgyz to be 60-80% East Eurasian.. Even Mongolians are East Eurasian less than these guys. Eastern Mongols; Khalkas, Inner Mongolians are over 93-100% East Eurasian where as western Mongols; Oirats, Tuvanians, Khoton are only 82-85% East Eurasian but groups like Atayal have 100% East Eurasian like all Taiwan aborigine groups. Many of the tribes look typical East Asian/Southeast Asian ( due to marrying Chinese men and being mongoloid looking to begin with ) but many other tribes look like half Caucasian to almost pure Caucasian.

Physical appearance

" The Atayal are physically visible from the Han Chinese of Taiwan.[10] Intermarriage with Chinese also produced a significant number of Atayal-Chinese mixed offspring and celebrities such as Vivian Hsu, Vic Zhou, Yuming Lai, Kao Chin Su-mei. "

( Note: I'm posting a lot of pictures here because I want you to understand what I'm talking about )

Pure Atayal female on the left, Chinese-Atayal female mix on the right
http://www.intmath.com/blog/wp-content/travel/Taiwan2006_547_sm.jpg
http://sixstar.moc.gov.tw/f_upload_sixstar/cms/webEdit/A0/B0/C0/D0/E0/F0/f659ef32-175d-43df-ad54-498eadcea062.JPG


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5xElniMLQn0/UXZSKeUUzOI/AAAAAAAAANA/FJSfiVIf3_s/s1600/%E9%AB%98%E4%B8%80%E7%94%9F+(31).JPG
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ROqRoHtn8uc/maxresdefault.jpg


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/f4/f4/0e/f4f40e768c0a426c5fdf1312d505938f.jpg
http://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2015/10/20/thumbs/p12-151020-aa3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/N42Ka8D.jpg


Other Taiwan aborigine groups like the seediq tribes also look extremely non-Mongoloid

http://i48.tinypic.com/30iz5fn.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/xp3dkh.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/sq6x6t.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/iqybyu.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/50ijax.jpg

Thepowerrangers
04-16-2017, 06:19 AM
( To show I'm not cherry picking. It clearly shows they are 100% pure East Eurasian )

Genetic grapth shows It''s 100% East Asian in Taiwan aborigines groups ( Amis and Atayal ) while groups like Kyrgyz are only 68-70% East Asian on average in this study

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Oa3bBts6e3M/Ur6VH_81tpI/AAAAAAAAAUI/JGoPs1UmWyA/s1600/Lazaridis2014_EDF3_K6.png

These people are from the Amis, Seediq, Rukai, Atayal tribes, many are properly mixed of different degrees of Chinese as it was extremely common for Chinese male labourers to intermarry with them.

Phenotype-wise I'm not sure if these are really Caucasian features but it's definitely not Mongoloid and they definately look way more less Mongoloid/East Asian looking than Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Southeast Asians.

From Amis tribe

http://i46.tinypic.com/f0sqdh.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/a2ypt1.jpg

From Rukai tribe

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c9/8d/3d/c98d3d9d3bc93d0db332ce0527af7eab.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ef/94/04/ef94048c5581cc604c75a57f6c398078.jpg


From seediq tribe

http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/public/sites/358/assets/131477832799882011083115541512_70367.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2nk75f.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/vn1dzr.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/6qw2ah.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/16sy2t.jpg

Thepowerrangers
04-16-2017, 06:45 AM
I'm surprised no one in anthrogenica can answer this. Is mind blogging isn't it ?

I mean groups like Kyrgyz, they have like 60% R1a and 43% Caucasian mtDNA and yet they still look like this. The vast majority of Kyrgyz look almost indistinguishable from Koreans.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2010/06/12/world/KYRGYZ2/KYRGYZ2-popup.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2203/1769876275_a8c9e0a73e.jpg


A Taiwan aborigine seediq can convince me anytime though they they are mixed with Indian/Pakistani, Yemeni, or even Arabs. But a Kyrgyz can only convince me that they are pure East Asian.

http://www.oaff.jp/2012/english/program/screening/img/films/p13_3.jpg
https://chinesecinema.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/warriors-of-the-rainbow.jpg?w=810

Thepowerrangers
04-16-2017, 07:04 AM
This boy in this video is a mix of Bunun and Seediq, he goes around youtube telling everyone people mistake him for being being white. He said the Chinese, Asians mistake him for Mexicans and the whites mistakes him for being mix race Eurasian.

He once told me that white people had many times told him that he can pass for white lol while other times he said he just looks like a Malaysian with a big caucasian hooked nose.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tfHjivHUMA

rocky
04-17-2017, 12:32 AM
Those are Proto-Mongoloids they are going to have pseudo-Caucasoid features.

Thepowerrangers
04-17-2017, 01:17 AM
Those are Proto-Mongoloids they are going to have pseudo-Caucasoid features.

So you mean proto-mongoloids are actually more caucasoid looking than the Mongoloids who have caucasian admixture ?

Thepowerrangers
04-17-2017, 01:39 AM
These two look really Native American Indians. I read that Amerindians were also proto-Mongoloid.

http://www.dezhoudaily.com/liv_loadfile/xiaofei/travel/tytx/fold19/1374656992_27498900.jpg
http://cul.china.com.cn/minsu/images/attachement/jpg/site449/20111223/6c626d0c3fc2105e3ae20e.jpg

Calas
04-17-2017, 02:07 AM
Just so you know your reference Rainbow Warriors has more than just Taiwanese actors/actresses in it. It also has people who are actually of full or partial Atayal Taiwanese ancestry & or of known Truku ancestry. In fact, I am not even sure if they have Seediq in that flick and just don't tattoo/paint themselves like Seediq. Given as if you read the summary on Rainbow Warriors most of the parts are actually Atayal Taiwanese characters following a Seediq leader.

As for the boy, as some of the comments say, he looks rather Filipino. I mean people once said Freddie Mercury could pass as white, British, despite (unless mistaken) he was Parsi and, in a way, he'd definitely pull such a belief off better than the boy would. Besides, there are some Eastern Asians who can get that same sort of appearance anyways. Google images doesn't represent the whole.


By the way, here's the real Mouna (guy in the middle) I believe. He is the star of the movie. He is played by an actor who is I believe of Atayal ancestry not Seediq once again.
https://i.imgsafe.org/416d80f6e1.png

To compare against the half Bunun, apparently a Bunun.
https://i.imgsafe.org/41e5b40b99.png

Thepowerrangers
04-17-2017, 02:16 AM
Taiwanese actress of aboriginal descent. In my personal opinion they look better than the regular Mongoloid females. The brown hair in this picture I think are dyed but there are some Taiwanese aborigines born with some strands of brownish hair but I don't think it's anything that weird because I've also seen Southeast Asians kids born with unhealthy looking brown, blonde, red hair which I think it's the result of malnutrition or living in some environments and Taiwanese aborigine tend to live in some isolated forest or mountains with different level of altitudes.

http://resource.mingweekly.com/userfiles/fromold/img/upload/pictures/2013/10/13826732086f.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8186/8144340520_7fb56cd2db_b.jpg


Taiwan aborigine singers

http://pic.ctitv.com/wpimg/2016/03/1212.png
http://i.imgur.com/zSVtBLZ.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4A-miasFIXU/hqdefault.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Umaw.jpg






Taiwanese aborigines with light eyes

https://s.yimg.com/xd/api/res/1.2/37k82iLACjpBkMVFnJbi4A--/YXBwaWQ9eXR3YXVjdGlvbnNlcnZpY2U7aD01MzY7cT04NTtyb3 RhdGU9YXV0bztzcj0xLjI7c3M9MS4yO3c9NjAw/http://nevec-img.zenfs.com/prod/tw_ec05-7/e1c32e94-86ee-41c0-b663-240ecd66d77f.jpg
https://s2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/fKQYWA._rJrXr5Z_PMyzfA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYwMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/zh-Hant_TW/News/yahoobeauty/20150731221358_easonhou_702182.jpg

Thepowerrangers
04-17-2017, 02:36 AM
Just so you know your reference Rainbow Warriors has more than just Taiwanese actors/actresses in it. It also has people who are actually of full or partial Atayal Taiwanese ancestry & or of known Truku ancestry. In fact, I am not even sure if they have Seediq in that flick and just don't tattoo/paint themselves like Seediq. Given as if you read the summary on Rainbow Warriors most of the parts are actually Atayal Taiwanese characters following a Seediq leader.

As for the boy, as some of the comments say, he looks rather Filipino. I mean people once said Freddie Mercury could pass as white, British, despite (unless mistaken) he was Parsi and, in a way, he'd definitely pull such a belief off better than the boy would. Besides, there are some Eastern Asians who can get that same sort of appearance anyways. Google images doesn't represent the whole.


By the way, here's the real Mouna (guy in the middle) I believe. He is the star of the movie. He is played by an actor who is I believe of Atayal ancestry not Seediq once again.
https://i.imgsafe.org/416d80f6e1.png

To compare against the half Bunun, apparently a Bunun.
https://i.imgsafe.org/41e5b40b99.png

Can you tell me if you consider them to be Mongoloid race or separate race ? It's rare for east Asian to have this appearance and even they do have it's generally not near level of Taiwanese aborigines. Of course East Asians are going to have since we are talking about a flipping billion east Asians. But the Taiwan aborigines only 500,000 and yet so so so many of them have these appearances not to mention many had already mixed with Chinese depending on the tribes.

Oh I didn't know that, I just assume all the actors/actress were from the seediq tribe since this movie is based on them. A lot of seediq tribes look East Asian and Southeast Asian but quite a lot look Caucasoid influence.

If you're talking about this kid than yes he looks Filipino

http://testpress.net/seediq/seediq_boy2.jpg

but this one ( the young version of Mouna ) can easily pass as Native American or maybe even a Nepalese a mix of Mongoloid and South Asians ( Indian/Pakistani type ). There's no way I could consider him Southeast Asian unless he is one of those Southeast Asian who looked either influenced by Indian, Australoid or maybe even Caucasian.
http://i46.tinypic.com/2nunoo.jpg


The Bunun kids you posted look more east Asian, I don't think if it's intermarriage with Chinese or with other tribes. The Bunun generally look very Southeast Asian but you will also find many of them with caucasian like features aswell.

Like this one
http://mmmfile.emmm.tw/member/25149/article/20101206070903.jpg

And this one
https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2910/14227812242_d3e6c200f6.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7041/13884977865_53dd0a027d_b.jpg
(women on the right is not Bunun I think, it's her dress)
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/wm/live/1280_640/images/live/p0/14/k6/p014k67q.jpg
http://210.241.123.26/dispGetFile/GetImg.aspx?FileLocation=Pre%5C&FileName=apc1100003_sacr_bun20110507007_+012o.JPG


Absolutely not. The faces are way too rare for east Asians while it occurs in large percentage of Taiwan aborigines despite having only a population of half of a million.


http://static.ettoday.net/images/5/d5425.jpg

Taiwanese aboriginal baseball player
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PKJ_s_tag-w/hqdefault.jpg

Kid
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2428/4025902129_62ab2abfd5.jpg

Actress/models
http://s2.buzzhand.net/uploads/e6/1/908377/14502357396930.jpg
http://img.71lady.com/uploads/allimg/131019/2_131019160522_1.jpg
http://p3.pstatp.com/large/162e0006989ab47e5567



Mix of Taiwanese aborigines, Han Chinese (not sure )

https://s2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/RmmVVliL_WT89ZVpRJL4Bg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztxPTg1O3c9NDAw/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/omg/2015-08-03/01c9b670-39a2-11e5-85d9-bd956a4cf6c0_10401464_402990783191785_591842655967 6735017_n.jpg
https://i1.read01.com/uploads/0C0pIQ0R.jpg


Vivian Hsu

Father Han Chinese, mother Taiwanese aborigine

http://www.925-silver-shop.com/UploadFiles/2010-11/admin/201011111788134.jpg

Kao Chin Su-mei

Father Manchu-Chinese, mother Taiwanese aborigine

http://www.shanghai-taiwan.org/uploads/month_1608/201608180919518251.jpg

Thepowerrangers
04-17-2017, 03:09 AM
So far I haven't see much information on these people yet

Baltimore1937
04-17-2017, 09:31 AM
There is a tribe or local population in the Pleiku, Vietnam area (highlands) that looks strikingly Caucasian. Actually, I am referring to the girls. I didn't pay much attention to the boys.

Dorkymon
04-17-2017, 01:23 PM
All I can see in your posts that could be summarised like "Caucasian features in East Asians" are Asians with a lot of make-up/fancy hairstyles that hide what is traditionally perceived as East Asian features. There is nothing unusual about those aboriginal groups.

redifflal
04-17-2017, 01:57 PM
So you mean proto-mongoloids are actually more caucasoid looking than the Mongoloids who have caucasian admixture ?

The way I see it, phenotypal differences across geographies happen over time and space due to various factors like pure luck, sexual selection, differential birthrates, differential death rates, etc. There is good reason to believe that all these genetic markers like R1a or ancient West Eurasian autosomal branch or Basal Eurasian autosomal branch or Ancestral South Indian autosomal branch etc etc all happened when they all contained the same proto-proto-x-oid phenotypes. So in this regard, it is fallacious to try make correlations between how West Eurasian one looks in appearance vs how much of that quantity they possess ancestrally/genetically. Also threads like this are unbecoming of this forum.

AJL
04-17-2017, 10:24 PM
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