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ajc347
04-20-2017, 11:23 PM
Living DNA have provided me with the following Y-DNA results: L151+ (U106-, P312-, & S1200-).

This leaves the potential option of the A8051 line being a route to help determine my terminal SNP.

Yfull have listed A8062 below A8051 in the YTree (with A8058 and A8069 being shown as equivalent SNP's).

YSEQ have single tests available for both A8058 and A8069.

I'm presuming that testing for either one of these would help determine whether my terminal SNP potentially sits within the A8051 line and, if so, would there be any reason to undertake a test for both?

RobertCasey
04-20-2017, 11:44 PM
You might want to test the R1b gateway SNP pack test instead (on sale this week for $20 off at $79). It tests around 100 to 150 YSNPs at less than one dollar per YSNP and would probably be much more economical than testing one at a time. Do you have a YSTR test yet? I never recommend YSNP testing until you have 67 YSTR markers tested. Unfortunately, FTDNA does not allow ordering of YSNP tests until you first test YSTRs. The 67 marker test is $60 off this week only ($209). You could also order the 37 marker to save testing costs (not recommended) which is only $129 this week only. You can later upgrade for $99 to 67 markers.

Also, you may want to join the FTDNA R1b project which will give you advice on the next step (this also requires YSTR testing). Without associated YSTR testing, you are only conducting an anthropological test vs. a genealogical test. Since you are U106- and P312-, that rules out 90 % of the branches under R1b.

Joe B
04-21-2017, 12:15 AM
There is also the R1b-L51 xP312 xU106 SNP pack. It covers A8051 and A8058 and several other SNPs at those phylogenetic levels. Suggest you join the R1b Basal Subclades project. With YSEQ, A8058 looks like a reasonable place to start phylogenetic bracketing.

ajc347
04-21-2017, 12:33 AM
Thanks guys. :)

I've checked out the R1b orientation panel and under L151 it only tests for DF100, P312 and U106 which Living DNA have already provided me with the results for, hence I'm unsure as to whether there would be any benefit in re-testing for these?

I can't seem to find the R1b-L51 xP312 xU106 SNP pack on the YSEQ site - would I be right in thinking that this is a FTDNA pack?

I'm also a little confused as to what benefit a YSTR test would offer - I was under the impression that they were a less accurate predictor than a SNP test and I'm unsure as to what added benefit might be gleaned from a 67 marker test (other than the ability to be added to the FTDNA database and groups)?

Apologies for the extra questions, I'm still very much on a learning curve when it comes to genetic testing. :)

RobertCasey
04-21-2017, 03:19 AM
With a 67 marker test you get several things. You get enough information to compare yourself to around 50,000 other haplogroup R testers. Your closer matches may have already done a lot of YSNP testing already, so a lot of the YSNP pack tests and YSNP testing may be unnecessary. With 67 markers, you join 50,000 others in determining who is actually the most closely related to you vs. YSNPs that could be 1,000s of years old. With 67 markers, you may already belong to a well known YSTR signature that predicts a very recent YSNP branch. With both YSTR testing and extensive YSNP testing, you may be able to chart how you and your close matches are actually connected. Here is a sample of what 67 markers might provide you (75 % of 67 marker testers have not even tested any YSNPs but some are assigned to branches that in the 500 to 1,000 year time frame - one third of these YSNP branches are genealogical in nature and share more than 50% of the same surname):

http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/R_L226/Haplotrees/L226_Home.pdf#Page=19


(http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/R_L226/Haplotrees/L226_Home.pdf#Page=19)

Joe B
04-21-2017, 04:12 PM
Thanks guys. :)

I've checked out the R1b orientation panel and under L151 it only tests for DF100, P312 and U106 which Living DNA have already provided me with the results for, hence I'm unsure as to whether there would be any benefit in re-testing for these?

I can't seem to find the R1b-L51 xP312 xU106 SNP pack on the YSEQ site - would I be right in thinking that this is a FTDNA pack?

I'm also a little confused as to what benefit a YSTR test would offer - I was under the impression that they were a less accurate predictor than a SNP test and I'm unsure as to what added benefit might be gleaned from a 67 marker test (other than the ability to be added to the FTDNA database and groups)?

Apologies for the extra questions, I'm still very much on a learning curve when it comes to genetic testing. :)Go to the R1b Basal Subclades project > DNA Results > Colorized Chart > Page 3. Start with subgroup "_i. [Probable R1b-L51 > P310 (P312- U106-)]. Should order R1b - L51xP312xU106 SNP Pack or, preferably, Big Y" and judge for yourself how you want to test. You can also use the project phylogenetic haplotrees.
STRs are used for matching purposes and haplogroup prediction. Often you'll see a surname project with members that have very similar STRs.
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/dna-results

ajc347
04-21-2017, 04:33 PM
Thanks again for your helpful and informative responses guys. :)

I'm definitely going to consider going down the FTDNA route, especially given the current price reduction. :)

Dibran
05-12-2017, 03:07 PM
You might want to test the R1b gateway SNP pack test instead (on sale this week for $20 off at $79). It tests around 100 to 150 YSNPs at less than one dollar per YSNP and would probably be much more economical than testing one at a time. Do you have a YSTR test yet? I never recommend YSNP testing until you have 67 YSTR markers tested. Unfortunately, FTDNA does not allow ordering of YSNP tests until you first test YSTRs. The 67 marker test is $60 off this week only ($209). You could also order the 37 marker to save testing costs (not recommended) which is only $129 this week only. You can later upgrade for $99 to 67 markers.

Also, you may want to join the FTDNA R1b project which will give you advice on the next step (this also requires YSTR testing). Without associated YSTR testing, you are only conducting an anthropological test vs. a genealogical test. Since you are U106- and P312-, that rules out 90 % of the branches under R1b.

Question. If I get my haplogroup placement from LivingDNA, would I not need to do full Yseq, and instead could just order SNP packs? Or is this not possible?

I know you have to order the principal ftdna test before you can order snp packs.

Was curious if I could save money and just order an SNp pack once Living provides my result.

RobertCasey
05-13-2017, 04:04 AM
Question. If I get my haplogroup placement from LivingDNA, would I not need to do full Yseq, and instead could just order SNP packs? Or is this not possible?

I know you have to order the principal ftdna test before you can order snp packs.

Was curious if I could save money and just order an SNp pack once Living provides my result.

I took a closer look at your results and it does not appear that any SNP pack would be cost effective. Here is some analysis:

For haplogroup R:

R1a, R2 and R* are around 10 % of R
U106 is around 20 % of R
P312 is around 70 % of R

This only leaves two very small branches under L151:

S2100 is by far the largest (this is an equivalent of FTDNA's S1194. You have tested negative for S2100 which only leaves
only a handful of untested YSNPs that are under S8051 (FTDNA's FGC37100 which is an equivalent of S8051).

FTDNA haplotree is:

FGC37100
- A8055
- - BY11673
- FGC37083
- - BY11668

YFULL haplotree is:

- A8039 (found under U106)
- A8051 (equiv of FGC37100)
- - FGC57291 (not found under FTDNA)
- A8063 (equivalent of A8055)
- - FGC51001 (not found under FTDNA)

I would order FGC37100 (or A8051) first from YSEQ.

A major assumption is that the LivingDNA testing is accurate. The tests used by LivingDNA, Ancestry.com, 23andme and NatGeo are done via Chip Array tests which can have inconsistent testing results. Since this is a new test, the bugs will need to be worked out like the other tests. Also, you are in a very small and very old branches of R1b, which YFULL and FTDNA are not in agreement with due to very few tests.

ajc347
05-18-2017, 10:34 PM
I took a closer look at your results and it does not appear that any SNP pack would be cost effective. Here is some analysis:

For haplogroup R:

R1a, R2 and R* are around 10 % of R
U106 is around 20 % of R
P312 is around 70 % of R

This only leaves two very small branches under L151:

S2100 is by far the largest (this is an equivalent of FTDNA's S1194. You have tested negative for S2100 which only leaves
only a handful of untested YSNPs that are under S8051 (FTDNA's FGC37100 which is an equivalent of S8051).

FTDNA haplotree is:

FGC37100
- A8055
- - BY11673
- FGC37083
- - BY11668

YFULL haplotree is:

- A8039 (found under U106)
- A8051 (equiv of FGC37100)
- - FGC57291 (not found under FTDNA)
- A8063 (equivalent of A8055)
- - FGC51001 (not found under FTDNA)

I would order FGC37100 (or A8051) first from YSEQ.

A major assumption is that the LivingDNA testing is accurate. The tests used by LivingDNA, Ancestry.com, 23andme and NatGeo are done via Chip Array tests which can have inconsistent testing results. Since this is a new test, the bugs will need to be worked out like the other tests. Also, you are in a very small and very old branches of R1b, which YFULL and FTDNA are not in agreement with due to very few tests.

Thanks Robert.

I ended up ordering FGC37100 and A8058 tests from YSEQ and the results came back earlier this week as C- and A- respectively (hence negative for both if my interpretation is correct).

I followed the advice of JoeB and yourself and ended up registering with FTDNA and ended up ordering the YSTR 111 and the R1b-L51 xP312 xU106 SNP pack during the recent sale (with results due to at the end of June / start of July - this should help confirm the Living DNA results at the very least).

Thank you for sharing the differences in the FTDNA and YFULL trees - I never realised that they differed and it will be interesting to see what the FTDNA test reports in respect of A8039.

I also decided to pull the trigger on a YElite 2.1 test earlier today, so hopefully things will become a lot clearer in time. :)