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sktibo
04-22-2017, 07:09 AM
Hi everyone,

I've been talking with Jessie for a while about Ancestry's categories and what they might mean, and I'm hoping that more people will join in this discussion.
It occurred to me that what ancestry calls "Great Britain" looks to be a mixture of its "Ireland" category and its "Scandinavia" category, at least to some degree. My reason for thinking this is that we see when the same person takes more than one test, the Great Britain category partially breaks off into these other two. Rod took two tests and shares his results here: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9783-How-accurate-as-testing-kits-Triplets-Study&p=221570#post221570
His first test showed Scandi 35, GB 30, Ire 16. His second test showed Scandi 40, GB 22, Ire 19. So we see here a difference of 8 percentage points which were redistributed into Scandinavia and Ireland on the second test.
Geebee also tested twice and shared his results here: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9503-Has-anyone-tested-twice-at-Ancestry-DNA
His first test showed GB 27, Scandi 2, Ire 7. His second test showed GB 25, Scandi 3, Ire 9. While it isn't quite as clear cut as Rod's results, it still shows a decrease in Great Britain and an increase in Ireland and Scandinavia.
One conclusion we can draw from this is that the "Great Britain" category is some mixture which includes something very similar to the "Ireland" category and the "Scandinavia" category. It likely includes some other category also, although I don't notice any clear lines with any other Ancestry DNA categories.

We've also been discussing the possibility that the "Ireland" category (And I suppose the Irish people, as they are what comprise Ancestry's Ireland category) could be a fairly good representation of the British and Irish peoples around the Bronze Age, prior to later migrations of other groups such as the Germanic and Scandinavian peoples. One point of interest seems to be that for Irish people, Ancestry's category for Ireland appears to match up with 23andme's British and Irish category quite closely.

With this thread I'm hoping that we will discuss what some of Ancestry's categories might be comprised of. I'm hoping that somebody will have some insights into the "Europe West" category, as for some users it seems to be interchangeable with "Great Britain".

AnnieD
04-22-2017, 05:59 PM
With this thread I'm hoping that we will discuss what some of Ancestry's categories might be comprised of. I'm hoping that somebody will have some insights into the "Europe West" category, as for some users it seems to be interchangeable with "Great Britain".

If you have not already seen the Ancestry.co.UK article on modern British ethnicity, you might find this interesting in regard to your analysis:

https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/international/press-releases/DNA-of-the-nation-revealedand-were-not-as-British-as-we-think

DNA of the nation revealed...and we're not as 'British' as we think

"Major new study into DNA reveals mixed ethnic make-up of the UK – AncestryDNA



Study looked at the nation’s ethnicity dating back 500 years from 26 global regions (https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/international/press-releases/DNA-of-the-nation-revealedand-were-not-as-British-as-we-think#_edn1)
[I]Reveals the genetic make-up of the average UK resident, and variations in English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish genetic make-ups
Average UK resident is 36.94% British, 21.59% Irish and 19.91% Western European (French/German)


"The genetic make-up of the nation has been revealed – with Yorkshire proven to be the most ‘British’ region in the UK, while London is the most ethnically diverse and the East Midlands the most Scandinavian region in the UK."

As an American of assumed mostly British roots, I look more "British" (58% British & 5% Irish) today than the average UK British in above stats if I literally consider the "British" category. :lol: According to the historical immigration records that AncestryDNA features with its beta Genetic Communities, both of my family lines settled in regions that were populated by English and later Scottish, Scots-Irish, German (mostly SW German peasants, Moravians and a small colony of Protestant Salzburgers). Irish settled later but not as heavily in my particular regions. Hence, my AC may be said to match the historical settler records. Or, is it possible that the admixture calculators, with their still very broad estimate ranges, 'man-handled' my results to fit the historical documents? ;)

I am surprised that more testers are not challenging Ancestry.com UK's ethnicity categories given recent POBI study:

"They found that the average UK resident is 36.94% British (Anglo Saxon), 21.59% Irish (Celtic) and 19.91% Western European (the region covered today by France and Germany)."

MacEochaidh
04-22-2017, 06:36 PM
After reading the link https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/international/press-releases/DNA-of-the-nation-revealedand-were-not-as-British-as-we-think, it would appear that my AncestryDNA results are spot on. My ancestry is 75% Belfast Irish and 25% French Canadian.

15392

Judith
04-22-2017, 06:56 PM
NOT as British as we think!
What tripe!
They seem to be saying that their tests are the accurate pieces of data and our mere paper trails are illusions.
Yes yorkshire is representative of the original ancient Britain, just look how close Driffield are to Wales.
I assume they mean ancient British however and everyone assumed for centuries that the Anglo Saxons took over England leaving Wales and Ireland untouched and then the POBI results showed that there was an incline and clusters from the underlying ancient British Iron Age.
So we found that we were actually more ancient British than we thought. Exactly the opposite of their headline in fact.

London was and is a melting pot from everywhere and over the last 200 years everywhere is world-wide, so what is new there?
I find that I really object to Ancestry's ads saying they will tell you your ancient roots. Possibly someday their new genetic communities will, as we, whilst paying them too, give them the data.

sktibo
04-22-2017, 08:07 PM
If you have not already seen the Ancestry.co.UK article on modern British ethnicity, you might find this interesting in regard to your analysis:

https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/international/press-releases/DNA-of-the-nation-revealedand-were-not-as-British-as-we-think

DNA of the nation revealed...and we're not as 'British' as we think

"Major new study into DNA reveals mixed ethnic make-up of the UK – AncestryDNA



Study looked at the nation’s ethnicity dating back 500 years from 26 global regions (https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/international/press-releases/DNA-of-the-nation-revealedand-were-not-as-British-as-we-think#_edn1)
[I]Reveals the genetic make-up of the average UK resident, and variations in English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish genetic make-ups
Average UK resident is 36.94% British, 21.59% Irish and 19.91% Western European (French/German)


"The genetic make-up of the nation has been revealed – with Yorkshire proven to be the most ‘British’ region in the UK, while London is the most ethnically diverse and the East Midlands the most Scandinavian region in the UK."

As an American of assumed mostly British roots, I look more "British" (58% British & 5% Irish) today than the average UK British in above stats if I literally consider the "British" category. :lol: According to the historical immigration records that AncestryDNA features with its beta Genetic Communities, both of my family lines settled in regions that were populated by English and later Scottish, Scots-Irish, German (mostly SW German peasants, Moravians and a small colony of Protestant Salzburgers). Irish settled later but not as heavily in my particular regions. Hence, my AC may be said to match the historical settler records. Or, is it possible that the admixture calculators, with their still very broad estimate ranges, 'man-handled' my results to fit the historical documents? ;)

I am surprised that more testers are not challenging Ancestry.com UK's ethnicity categories given recent POBI study:

"They found that the average UK resident is 36.94% British (Anglo Saxon), 21.59% Irish (Celtic) and 19.91% Western European (the region covered today by France and Germany)."

If you check out the write up for your GB category you'll see a written contradiction to this article you've shared. it says "The history of Great Britain is often told in terms of the invasions with different groups of invaders displacing the native population. The Romans, Anglo-Saxon, Vikings and Normans have all left their mark on Great Britain both politically and culturally. However, the story of Great Britain is far more complex than the traditional view of invaders displacing existing populations. In fact modern studies of British people tend to suggest the earliest populations continued to exist and adapt and absorb the new arrivals."

Hilarious article though, thank you for sharing it. I think the GB category makes a lot more sense if we look at it as a mixture of the Ireland category and Scandinavia / something Germanic.

I'd like to list some examples of a few individuals, their background, and what they got:

This person is Dutch, German and has a small amount of Hungarian and Ashkenazi through a Grandmother and this is what they got. 40% Great Britain, 33% Europe West, 22% Scandinavia, 3% Irish and 2% Northwest Russia.

This Dutch reviewer got 94% Europe West, 2% GB. https://www.dutchgenealogy.nl/what-dutch-dna-looks-like/

Forum user Kylo_Ren wrote "I get only >1% even though I have nearly 50% German ancestry. The range they gave me was 0-5%." about how much Europe West he got.

My aunt got 70% Europe West, 19% GB, 6% Ireland. Her paper trail is 43.75% English, 29.68% Scottish, 16.4% French, 6.25% Welsh. Mine is 73% GB, 6% Ire, 2% Europe West. This makes me think that if we took another test, some of our GB and EW results might switch, however, so far with the results I've seen from people taking this test twice I haven't noticed this happen. If anyone spots it, please post it here. Geebee's results for GB changed when he tested twice however his EW percentage remained the same.

A friend who is 50% French Canadian, with the other half being predominantly German with Scottish and English thrown in got 45% Britain, 9% Ireland, and was very surprised with her low percentage for Europe West. I think I recall reading on the ancestry forums about people of French backgrounds being confused as to why Great Britain was their top category. Strangely, she got unexpected percentages for both Italy and Greece, as well as Iberian Peninsula.

We have a review here from someone who noted the difference between their V1 and V2 results: https://dna-explained.com/2016/10/05/ancestry-v1-vs-v2-test-comparison/
Their Great Britain category was reduced from 4% to 3% and their Scandinavia increased from 10% to 11%. None of their other ethnicity estimates were reported to have changed.

I'm just writing out every ethnicity estimate involving GB/Europe West I can think of to see if anyone can help spot a pattern. The fact that Ancestry previously planned to merge EW with GB indicates there is quite a lot of overlap, yet I can't see any hard evidence of what the relationship between them is quite yet.

Mike_G
04-22-2017, 11:59 PM
Thanks for the article link.

My Ancestry results still have me scratching my head. Lithuanian on my paternal side. I only know one half of my maternal side, which is a mix of English and German going back to the 17th century. Unless some of the German is showing up as Eastern European and the Scandinavian is from my English ancestors, it's really messed up. Trace of Great Britain and zero Western European.

15398

sktibo
04-23-2017, 12:03 AM
Thanks for the article link.

My Ancestry results still have me scratching my head. Lithuanian on my paternal side. I only know one half of my maternal side, which is a mix of English and German going back to the 17th century. Unless some of the German is showing up as Eastern European and the Scandinavian is from my English ancestors, it's really messed up. Trace of Great Britain and zero Western European.

15398

Germans I've seen often show up as a mixture of Scandinavia, Europe East, great Britain, sometimes Italy and Greece. I think I remember reading that some of them actually get accurate results, as in a lot of Europe west, but many seem to get all the surrounding regions instead.

Mike_G
04-23-2017, 12:53 AM
Germans I've seen often show up as a mixture of Scandinavia, Europe East, great Britain, sometimes Italy and Greece. I think I remember reading that some of them actually get accurate results, as in a lot of Europe west, but many seem to get all the surrounding regions instead.

Yep. I'm not overly surprised about the lack of Western European. I know that all the companies have difficulties consistently identifying German. Even 23andme only gives me about 4% (but my daughter 10% with a Filipino mom). I think my German is hidden in their Broadly NW European, so no problem. My main concern with my Ancestry results are the lack of Great Britain representation and the Eastern European over-representation. It's almost the opposite ratio of my LivingDNA results, but I'm willing to give the new company a break for now as they're still working through some stuff and have some really good plans for the future.

Anyway sktibo, thanks for creating this thread. I hope we can learn some stuff from it.

sktibo
04-23-2017, 01:14 AM
After reading the link https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/international/press-releases/DNA-of-the-nation-revealedand-were-not-as-British-as-we-think, it would appear that my AncestryDNA results are spot on. My ancestry is 75% Belfast Irish and 25% French Canadian.

15392

Looks like a very good result for you. I hope living DNA hurries up with your results so we can compare.

Clarke
04-23-2017, 01:15 AM
Hi All,

This is my first post, have been following for a while, but trying to learn more than anything.

I have tested twice with Ancestry and have received an Ireland, England, Western European result.

1st test results were Great Britain 36%, Ireland 30% and Western European 25%.
2nd test results were Ireland 36%, Western European 28%, Great Britain 27%.

Known ancestry County Cork-Meath (fathers), South West England (mothers). Anglo-Saxon and French-Norman connections

Mike_G
04-23-2017, 01:52 AM
Hi All,

This is my first post, have been following for a while, but trying to learn more than anything.

I have tested twice with Ancestry and have received an Ireland, England, Western European result.

1st test results were Great Britain 36%, Ireland 30% and Western European 25%.
2nd test results were Ireland 36%, Western European 28%, Great Britain 27%.

Known ancestry County Cork-Meath (fathers), South West England (mothers). Anglo-Saxon and French-Norman connections

Welcome to the forum Clarke. This is a great site for learning and sharing knowledge and insights.

sktibo
04-23-2017, 05:35 AM
Hi All,

This is my first post, have been following for a while, but trying to learn more than anything.

I have tested twice with Ancestry and have received an Ireland, England, Western European result.

1st test results were Great Britain 36%, Ireland 30% and Western European 25%.
2nd test results were Ireland 36%, Western European 28%, Great Britain 27%.

Known ancestry County Cork-Meath (fathers), South West England (mothers). Anglo-Saxon and French-Norman connections

Hi Clarke, thank you so much for coming on and posting here. Your results are exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to find. I have a request of you though, could you please post the full results of both of your tests here?

The results you've posted both add up to 91%. It looks like your Great Britain split into 6% more Ireland and 3% more Europe West. This is really interesting, as the other results we've seen only have GB splitting into Ireland and or Scandinavia.

MacEochaidh
04-23-2017, 06:42 PM
Looks like a very good result for you. I hope living DNA hurries up with your results so we can compare.


Today, April 23, 2017 is exactly one month from my LivingDna estimated results date of May 23, 2017.

Goodman
04-23-2017, 10:51 PM
Hello everybody, I'd like to share my AncestryDNA results, I've only tested once, I live in NW England and my results are: Ireland 46%, Great Britain 35%, Scandinavian 8% plus trace results. Looking at my results I'd say I'm a bit of everything i.e. Ancient Britain (Celt?!), Anglo Saxon with a bit of Viking thrown in. But reading earlier posts this is too simplistic and I can't figure out what is what so I'll just say I'm British!

sktibo
04-23-2017, 11:22 PM
Hello everybody, I'd like to share my AncestryDNA results, I've only tested once, I live in NW England and my results are: Ireland 46%, Great Britain 35%, Scandinavian 8% plus trace results. Looking at my results I'd say I'm a bit of everything i.e. Ancient Britain (Celt?!), Anglo Saxon with a bit of Viking thrown in. But reading earlier posts this is too simplistic and I can't figure out what is what so I'll just say I'm British!

You're British with a stronger pull towards the Ireland category, you probably have some Irish or Scottish ancestors if you're in NW England? As you may be able to tell from the earlier posts here it looks like Great Britain is a mixture of the Ireland category and the Scandinavia category, possibly Europe West too. A big problem with this test is that it uses terminology like "Scandinavia" - while it is true the samples come from Scandinavian people, it doesn't mean you have Scandinavian ancestry. What it means is that part of your autosomal genetic makeup is a closer match according to their calculation to this population. Scandinavian in ancestry can indicate anything from Anglo-Saxons to Norwegian Settlers/Vikings, and Germans often get a good chunk of this category. Hope this makes sense.

firemonkey
04-24-2017, 12:57 AM
My Great Britain is low with Ancestry.Full results- Ireland 38 Scandinavia 23 Europe west 22 Great Britain 15 Europe east <1 Italy/Greece <1

My paternal ancestors were from Derbyshire,Gloucestershire,Lancashire,Staffordshir e,Warwickshire,Worcestershire and Yorkshire. Maternal ancestors from Banffshire,East Lothian,Glasgow,Midlothian, Morayshire,Northumberland, Antrim,?other Irish counties.

JerryS.
04-24-2017, 01:02 AM
my Ancestry DNA results were in the right countries but the numbers were quite off. I then uploaded the raw data to FT DNA and saw it change a little more realistic to my known ancestry only to have their new origin calculator completely change things. GEDmatch dodecad V3 seems to be on the money from what I know of my family.

Clarke
04-24-2017, 01:26 AM
Hi Clarke, thank you so much for coming on and posting here. Your results are exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to find. I have a request of you though, could you please post the full results of both of your tests here?

The results you've posted both add up to 91%. It looks like your Great Britain split into 6% more Ireland and 3% more Europe West. This is really interesting, as the other results we've seen only have GB splitting into Ireland and or Scandinavia.

Thanks all for the warm welcome,

Sktibo, my full results are
Test One Iberian Peninsula 4%, Europe East 2%, Scandinavia 2%, Italy/Greece >1%.
Test Two Iberian Peninsula 5%, Scandinavia 2%, Europe East >1%, > Italy/ Greece>1%

Cheers Clarke

Goodman
04-24-2017, 12:38 PM
Thanks for the explanation, I do have some Irish which I didn't know about until I done my family tree on my paternal side and being in this part of Britain there are Irish ancestors everywhere in most peoples families. I haven't found any Scandinavian ancestors yet although I do have an ancestor with a German sounding name!
I'm looking forward to seeing which part of Ireland I get on LivingDNA when they add this feature. Should be interesting for me to see if it ties in with my paternal ancestor.
Thanks again.

Ron from PA
05-19-2017, 12:34 PM
I'm mainly German. They switch my British and Europe West they see me as mainly British. In the original white paper, not sure if they've revised/changed it. They admit that basically they can't tell the two regions apart.

CelticGerman
05-19-2017, 04:06 PM
I'm mainly German. They switch my British and Europe West they see me as mainly British. In the original white paper, not sure if they've revised/changed it. They admit that basically they can't tell the two regions apart.

North German?

CelticGerman
05-19-2017, 04:15 PM
My ancestry result ... and my known ancestry (percentages)
1616516166

bobp
05-20-2017, 01:08 AM
North German?

Ancestry puts all of my British ancestry in Western Europe while FTDNA puts all my North German ancestry in Britain.

Ron from PA
05-20-2017, 01:40 AM
North German?

Primarily Northern Baden and the Rhineland with some Swiss Mennonite. 23 gives me 48.8% French/German in speculative. I seem to be in the sweet spot for their calculator. Still have 28.8% broadly NW Euro i'd guess around 20% of that is French/German.

Ron from PA
05-30-2017, 01:23 PM
I've tested twice first test 43% British 21% EW. Second test 39% British 26% EW. Interesting that Ancestry's Irish might be like 23's British/Irish. I get no Irish on Ancestry and 16.8% at 23 which is low, I do have 28.7% Broadly NW.
Based on paper trail I give myself a range of 55-65% Germanic (German and Swiss) and 35-45% British mainly English with around 10-12% Scottish. If I just give the names a ancestry without concerning myself with recombination, i'd give myself 55% Germanic and 45% British. I've recently been looking at my first 16 ancestors and assigning %'s to them. What I discovered is without having a grandparent with a English name. Each line has English names, was surprised when I really looked at it how much English I have. No surprise really as a Colonial from Pennsylvania.

sktibo
05-30-2017, 04:46 PM
I've tested twice first test 43% British 21% EW. Second test 39% British 26% EW. Interesting that Ancestry's Irish might be like 23's British/Irish. I get no Irish on Ancestry and 16.8% at 23 which is low, I do have 28.7% Broadly NW.
Based on paper trail I give myself a range of 55-65% Germanic (German and Swiss) and 35-45% British mainly English with around 10-12% Scottish. If I just give the names a ancestry without concerning myself with recombination, i'd give myself 55% Germanic and 45% British. I've recently been looking at my first 16 ancestors and assigning %'s to them. What I discovered is without having a grandparent with a English name. Each line has English names, was surprised when I really looked at it how much English I have. No surprise really as a Colonial from Pennsylvania.

can you please post full results for both tests Ron so i can compare side by side? most appreciated

geebee
05-30-2017, 05:34 PM
I've tested twice first test 43% British 21% EW. Second test 39% British 26% EW. Interesting that Ancestry's Irish might be like 23's British/Irish. I get no Irish on Ancestry and 16.8% at 23 which is low, I do have 28.7% Broadly NW.
Based on paper trail I give myself a range of 55-65% Germanic (German and Swiss) and 35-45% British mainly English with around 10-12% Scottish. If I just give the names a ancestry without concerning myself with recombination, i'd give myself 55% Germanic and 45% British. I've recently been looking at my first 16 ancestors and assigning %'s to them. What I discovered is without having a grandparent with a English name. Each line has English names, was surprised when I really looked at it how much English I have. No surprise really as a Colonial from Pennsylvania.

Some of those "English" names may not be English. They could be Irish, though it sounds as if that isn't really showing up for you; or they could by Americanizations of German names. For example, before I found out that my maternal grandfather's Weaver family is actually his adopted family, I knew they had been a Weber family. (It turns out that my grandfather's bio parents were probably more English, though.)

I'm just saying that if some of these "English" names can't be traced to the source, they might not all be English -- although they also might well be exactly that.

Ron from PA
05-31-2017, 02:26 AM
I'm pretty sure most are English. Some of them are Nicholson, Taylor, Sheriff I believe they are either Northern English or Southern Scottish. I also do have a few names that changed from German sounding to Anglo sounding. I have a Schneider that turns into Snyder Gartner to Gardner Bouder to Potter and Shepp to Shepe. Probably some others that's off the top of my head.

Ron from PA
05-31-2017, 02:40 AM
Test #1
Britain 43%
Europe West 21%
Scandinavia 15%
Iberian Peninsula 10%
Italy/Greece 6%
Europe East 2%
Finland <1
Ireland <1
Caucasus <1

Test 2
Britain 39%
Europe West 26%
Scandinavia 13%
Iberian Peninsula 11%
Italy/Greece 5%
Europe East 2%
Finland <1
Ireland <1
Caucasus 1%
Melanesia <1

JerryS.
05-31-2017, 02:47 AM
Test #1
Britain 43%
Europe West 21%
Scandinavia 15%
Iberian Peninsula 10%
Italy/Greece 6%
Europe East 2%
Finland <1
Ireland <1
Caucasus <1

Test 2
Britain 39%
Europe West 26%
Scandinavia 13%
Iberian Peninsula 11%
Italy/Greece 5%
Europe East 2%
Finland <1
Ireland <1
Caucasus 1%
Melanesia <1

looks like you're about 16% Mediterranean with Iberia and Italy/Greece combined.

Ron from PA
05-31-2017, 03:05 AM
I'm thinking it's ancient components showing up. I don't have one known ancestor in my ancestry from the Mediterranean. The Italian I think could be in my Swiss/Southern German.

JerryS.
05-31-2017, 03:21 AM
I'm thinking it's ancient components showing up. I don't have one known ancestor in my ancestry from the Mediterranean. The Italian I think could be in my Swiss/Southern German.

there are some who will argue that Roman DNA forever changed English DNA so much so that English DNA is almost 25% Mediterranean. the problem with all of this is what we "know" on paper does not always match what happened in real life... i.e. infidelity, rape..... and no one here is able to say by the DNA data if 25% Mediterranean is from a grandparent or some sort of incredible hold over 700 years ago...

geebee
05-31-2017, 03:58 PM
I'm thinking it's ancient components showing up. I don't have one known ancestor in my ancestry from the Mediterranean. The Italian I think could be in my Swiss/Southern German.

I think you could be right. My father doesn't have results from Ancestry, just from 23andMe. But with only colonial German and British ancestry -- to the best I've been able to determine -- 23andMe comes up with both a little bit of Italian and a little bit of Balkan.

When I say "German", though, I think that may actually include some Swiss and Austrian in his case. I've been figuring that either of these might be where the "Italian" is coming in, and the Austrian may be the source of the "Balkan".

It isn't so much that he couldn't have either Italian or Balkan; but if he does, it's likely to be from very far back -- long before his German ancestors actually immigrated.

Ron from PA
06-01-2017, 01:06 PM
I think you could be right. My father doesn't have results from Ancestry, just from 23andMe. But with only colonial German and British ancestry -- to the best I've been able to determine -- 23andMe comes up with both a little bit of Italian and a little bit of Balkan.

When I say "German", though, I think that may actually include some Swiss and Austrian in his case. I've been figuring that either of these might be where the "Italian" is coming in, and the Austrian may be the source of the "Balkan".

It isn't so much that he couldn't have either Italian or Balkan; but if he does, it's likely to be from very far back -- long before his German ancestors actually immigrated.

I'd say my ancestry is much like your fathers. All Colonial PA that i've found. Whenever I used to get small amounts of Italian/Southern Euro I would scratch my head. I've recently discovered I have varying degrees of Swiss Mennonite in all four lines. A few generations back but it's there. And most of my German is South West in modern Germany.

Ron from PA
06-02-2017, 12:15 PM
Uploaded a Ancestry sample to My Heritage received 96% North West Euro. Way inflated however interesting that Ancestry only gives 21% Euro West. When I use this sample at Gedmatch comes back German as my top population on most calculators there.

JerryS.
06-02-2017, 01:40 PM
Something to ponder about your DNA test results. Here is an Autosomal test result from Ancestry DNA .com. this same raw data was loaded on to Family Tree DNA and these results came up.

Ancestry:
63% Great Britain
5% Scandinavian.

FTDNA:
British Isles 4%
Scandinavia 38%

so tell me, how much faith do you put in any of these companies trying to sell you memberships? GEDmatch doesn't care what you are or if your feeling get hurt because you uncovered a family secret..... they use the science of the chromosome broken down into regions where said DNA comes from. no guess work like these other outfits.

Mixed
06-02-2017, 02:04 PM
Uploaded a Ancestry sample to My Heritage received 96% North West Euro. Way inflated however interesting that Ancestry only gives 21% Euro West. When I use this sample at Gedmatch comes back German as my top population on most calculators there.

Same deal sir. Same sample used at My Heritage gives me no German/French. Yet, those are two of the closest populations on the calcs with Austrian which is Germanic. I know what I mostly am due to the matches I get on 23andme and from what my family knows.

NewAlbion
06-10-2017, 08:28 AM
I'd say my ancestry is much like your fathers. All Colonial PA that i've found. Whenever I used to get small amounts of Italian/Southern Euro I would scratch my head. I've recently discovered I have varying degrees of Swiss Mennonite in all four lines. A few generations back but it's there. And most of my German is South West in modern Germany.

I have southwestern German heritage from elsass-lothringnen that that was mixed with a British isles ancestor and it went into my British category (I do have some English and Scottish heritage) . My guess is since it was mixed with British isles stuff (actually Irish) it just showed up as mostly Norman and Anglo-Saxon and any small amount of Roman showed up as also British south of Hadrian's Wall. Both my heritage.com and ancestryDNA show it as part of my British heritage and myheritage.com even states it counts Roman as part of the British/English mix as well as pre-celt, celt, Norman and Anglo-Saxon. I have no clue why you are showing Italian. None of the GEDmatch calculators show Southwest German for me either AFAIK.

Swiss heritage is likely to be further south than Alsace-lorraine and Switzerland is like German, French and Italian mostly so that could explain the Italian result.

NewAlbion
06-10-2017, 08:37 AM
Something to ponder about your DNA test results. Here is an Autosomal test result from Ancestry DNA .com. this same raw data was loaded on to Family Tree DNA and these results came up.

Ancestry:
63% Great Britain
5% Scandinavian.

FTDNA:
British Isles 4%
Scandinavia 38%

so tell me, how much faith do you put in any of these companies trying to sell you memberships? GEDmatch doesn't care what you are or if your feeling get hurt because you uncovered a family secret..... they use the science of the chromosome broken down into regions where said DNA comes from. no guess work like these other outfits.

Yeah, GEDmatch oracles from different calculators give me different results it's not like they are all consistent with each other it is caucophony slapdash mishmash with little to no documentation. I might be able to get meaningful results out of the caucophony if it was better documentated.

NorwegianJ
06-26-2017, 05:50 PM
Hi there,

I hope maybe this group can shed some light on my issue. I am posting here because I believe it falls in the category of how these companies categorize results.

My Ancestry ethnicity test shows only 1% Irish and 38% Great Britain (see results in signature). A cousin just took the test. His father and mine were brothers, and their mother/our grandmother was 3/4 N Irish/Scottish. Their father/our grandfather was half German and half a mix of English, Dutch, French. Until I saw my cousin's results, I assumed Ancestry lumped N Irish/Scottish into the Great Britain category. However, his results show 52% W Europe, 25% Great Britain and 25% Irish. Excluding our mothers' ethnicity (German for him, Scandinavian for mine) we have to conclude that the Irish results come from our identical shared heritage. While there may have been some variation in inheritance for the brothers from the father vs the mother, even if the father's "English" might have a greater proportion of what could be considered "Irish," and the same for inheritance from the mother - maybe her 1/4 English/German/Dutch/Welsh - was inherited by one brother over the other, I don't see how we could ever get to a variation of only 1% Irish for me and 25% Irish for him.

Thoughts?

Cinnamon orange
06-27-2017, 09:38 AM
Hi there,

I hope maybe this group can shed some light on my issue. I am posting here because I believe it falls in the category of how these companies categorize results.

My Ancestry ethnicity test shows only 1% Irish and 38% Great Britain (see results in signature). A cousin just took the test. His father and mine were brothers, and their mother/our grandmother was 3/4 N Irish/Scottish. Their father/our grandfather was half German and half a mix of English, Dutch, French. Until I saw my cousin's results, I assumed Ancestry lumped N Irish/Scottish into the Great Britain category. However, his results show 52% W Europe, 25% Great Britain and 25% Irish. Excluding our mothers' ethnicity (German for him, Scandinavian for mine) we have to conclude that the Irish results come from our identical shared heritage. While there may have been some variation in inheritance for the brothers from the father vs the mother, even if the father's "English" might have a greater proportion of what could be considered "Irish," and the same for inheritance from the mother - maybe her 1/4 English/German/Dutch/Welsh - was inherited by one brother over the other, I don't see how we could ever get to a variation of only 1% Irish for me and 25% Irish for him.

Thoughts?

Sounds like FTDNA is possibly confusing Iberian with Sephardic, as there was mixture both ways. It may not be possible to narrow down in a chicken and egg scenario.
Jewish diaspora on FTDNA is probably Italy Greece on Ancestry.

I have a quarter German ancestry and only get 3% Europe West on Ancestry's DNA test.
I receive 13% Scandinavia but no known Scandinavian ancestry. I have part Northern German ancestry which may be mislabeled Scandinavian, as it is similar. I also get distant matches with Swedes, Finns and Norwegians on gedmatch and 23andme. It may be there was German flow to those areas or from the 16/17700's Scandinavian flow to Germany. The Thirty Years War could have made the connect.

NewAlbion
06-27-2017, 10:17 AM
Hi there,

I hope maybe this group can shed some light on my issue. I am posting here because I believe it falls in the category of how these companies categorize results.

My Ancestry ethnicity test shows only 1% Irish and 38% Great Britain (see results in signature). A cousin just took the test. His father and mine were brothers, and their mother/our grandmother was 3/4 N Irish/Scottish. Their father/our grandfather was half German and half a mix of English, Dutch, French. Until I saw my cousin's results, I assumed Ancestry lumped N Irish/Scottish into the Great Britain category. However, his results show 52% W Europe, 25% Great Britain and 25% Irish. Excluding our mothers' ethnicity (German for him, Scandinavian for mine) we have to conclude that the Irish results come from our identical shared heritage. While there may have been some variation in inheritance for the brothers from the father vs the mother, even if the father's "English" might have a greater proportion of what could be considered "Irish," and the same for inheritance from the mother - maybe her 1/4 English/German/Dutch/Welsh - was inherited by one brother over the other, I don't see how we could ever get to a variation of only 1% Irish for me and 25% Irish for him.

Thoughts?

Dude, you only share about 50% of your genes with siblings and it is substantially significantly less with cousins and the autosomal DNA, you inherit, can differ widely. If I do the math you should have only showed about 9% Irish, on average, but autosomal DNA inheritance doesn't follow strict mathematics or unpartial mathematics in the portions of DNA which you inherit from each ancestor.


Also, AncestryDNA says that is only an estimate and you can click on it to see a wider range with a higher confidence interval that may extend to or surpass the 9% at the outer edge of the range.

sktibo
06-27-2017, 03:18 PM
Hi there,

I hope maybe this group can shed some light on my issue. I am posting here because I believe it falls in the category of how these companies categorize results.

My Ancestry ethnicity test shows only 1% Irish and 38% Great Britain (see results in signature). A cousin just took the test. His father and mine were brothers, and their mother/our grandmother was 3/4 N Irish/Scottish. Their father/our grandfather was half German and half a mix of English, Dutch, French. Until I saw my cousin's results, I assumed Ancestry lumped N Irish/Scottish into the Great Britain category. However, his results show 52% W Europe, 25% Great Britain and 25% Irish. Excluding our mothers' ethnicity (German for him, Scandinavian for mine) we have to conclude that the Irish results come from our identical shared heritage. While there may have been some variation in inheritance for the brothers from the father vs the mother, even if the father's "English" might have a greater proportion of what could be considered "Irish," and the same for inheritance from the mother - maybe her 1/4 English/German/Dutch/Welsh - was inherited by one brother over the other, I don't see how we could ever get to a variation of only 1% Irish for me and 25% Irish for him.

Thoughts?

A lot of it has to do with how well you match the reference populations that the test uses - the segments you inherited might still be due to Irish ancestry but they didn't match Ancestry's Irish population, while your cousin's did. Great Britain, as mentioned earlier in this thread, is a category that overlaps and shares common DNA with Ireland, enough to exchange percentages between the two categories on a regular basis in those who have tested more than once. So yes, your Irish might have fallen into GB. However, you also could have not inherited as much Irish DNA as your cousin, the range between 1% and 25% is a plausible difference for genetic inheritance, although it's a bit extreme IMO. While some people do get a reliable split using Ancestry's test between their British and Irish percentages, for others it isn't very good. Try uploading yours and your cousin's kits to myheritage for free, to see how they split English vs Irish/Scottish/Welsh. I will warn you not to take myheritage's estimates too seriously, as I think it is a less reliable test than the one you have done with Ancestry, but for some people it does a good job. It is free, so even if it's even further off what you expect, it's still fun to do.

MischievousRaven
06-28-2017, 01:06 AM
Not sure if it helps/hinders, and I'm very much a greenhorn in regards to this but...

I'm an American whose maternal side is almost all Saxon Lutherans who immigrated to the United States in the 1800s from Saxony/Lower Saxony/Hannover (On my maternal side, I can trace back to 6x great grandparents and have ancestors from Lamstedt, Grasberg, Ritterhude, Worpswede, Wolterdingen, Reppen, Lobtau, Lunzenau, Dresden and Hartensdorf).

My father's side is mostly a mixture of Dutch (his maternal side) and German (estimated south/central German/Bavarian/Hessian/etc.).

On a rough paper trail, I've estimated that I'm around 70% German and 25% Dutch.

Due to this, I was expecting a significant amount of Europe West % in my Ancestry DNA results, but I was surprised to find that my Scandinavian and Great Britain %'s were much higher-- I have no known Scandinavian ancestry, and only a small fraction of English and Welsh ancestors several generations back on my father's mother's Dutch side.

My DNA results are found in my signature below; I feel like DNA.Land's results better represent my paper trail (still surprising in some regards though!). However, I have to wonder if Ancestry DNA's results are picking up on migration/interaction that took place in ancient western Europe between Scandinavia/GB and Europe West-- is my "German" actually all real German?

geebee
06-28-2017, 02:24 PM
Not sure if it helps/hinders, and I'm very much a greenhorn in regards to this but...

I'm an American whose maternal side is almost all Saxon Lutherans who immigrated to the United States in the 1800s from Saxony/Lower Saxony/Hannover (On my maternal side, I can trace back to 6x great grandparents and have ancestors from Lamstedt, Grasberg, Ritterhude, Worpswede, Wolterdingen, Reppen, Lobtau, Lunzenau, Dresden and Hartensdorf).

My father's side is mostly a mixture of Dutch (his maternal side) and German (estimated south/central German/Bavarian/Hessian/etc.).

On a rough paper trail, I've estimated that I'm around 70% German and 25% Dutch.

Due to this, I was expecting a significant amount of Europe West % in my Ancestry DNA results, but I was surprised to find that my Scandinavian and Great Britain %'s were much higher-- I have no known Scandinavian ancestry, and only a small fraction of English and Welsh ancestors several generations back on my father's mother's Dutch side.

My DNA results are found in my signature below; I feel like DNA.Land's results better represent my paper trail (still surprising in some regards though!). However, I have to wonder if Ancestry DNA's results are picking up on migration/interaction that took place in ancient western Europe between Scandinavia/GB and Europe West-- is my "German" actually all real German?

When you're looking at your Ancestry ethnicity results, try clicking on the name of a category. Not only will it show you a range of results for this category (out of the 40 runs they do for each person), but if you click on "See Details" you'll be taken to another page with useful information.

Specifically, you'll see a page that tells you more about that category at Ancestry. For example, for Great Britain, you'll see that it's "primarily located in England, Scotland, Wales" but that it's "also found in Ireland, France, Germany, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Italy".

This means that at least some of what is shown as Great Britain could indeed actually be Dutch.

Similarly, it you click on "See Details" for Scandinavia, what you'll find is that it's "primarily found in Sweden, Norway, Denmark", but "also found in Great Britain, France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, the Baltic States, Finland". Notice that, once again, both Germany and Netherlands appear as places in which the Scandinavia "ethnicity" is also found.

MischievousRaven
06-28-2017, 04:43 PM
Geebee, thanks for your reply! It makes sense! And when I add my Scandinavian, GB and Europe West %s on the basis that they're representative for my German/Dutch, the % comes out to 75% -- do you think any of the other Euro populations present in my results could also be contributing towards my German/Dutch? (particularly, the Europe East and Iberian Penn. and Italy/Greek components?)