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View Full Version : Here's Something Interesting: L226.2?



rms2
06-25-2013, 02:30 PM
Cross posted from the L21 Facebook Group:




Michael O'Reilly Rice
I thought you guy should know I came across a post from Marja Pirttivaara on the Y-DNA Project Administrators-
"Geno 2.0 transfer has changed at least three men's haplogroup from N1c1 to R1b1a2a1a1b4h. This is due to L226, my husband had the same problem and it was corrected. Obviously manually and for him as here are these new cases. I've ordered him L226 in FTDNA to confirm if his L226+ a mistake in Geno 2.0 or a private SNP in N1c1. It's still pending.

I've informed FTDNA about three problematic n1c1 - > R1b1a2a1a1b4h changes (two in finland dNA, one not).

N3027, 217359, N112701 if you know more please tell me, i can inform the FTDNA."


Judging from Pirttivaara's surname, I would say her husband is Finnish and that this is either a mix up or a second instance of L226, this time within N1C1, and unrelated to the Irish L21+ R-L226 bunch (except very very distantly, via the "Super K" family).

I found N3027 on page 3 of the Finland Project, and 217359 is on page 4. Both are now listed as "R1b1a2a1a1b4h", erroneously, I believe. They are Finns and so most likely really are N1C1. Like I said, this is either a mix up, or, what seems more likely, a second instance of L226, this time within N1C1: an "L226.2", I guess.

The Finland DNA Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/finland/default.aspx?vgroup=finland&vgroup=finland&vgroup=finland&vgroup=finland&section=yresults)

RobertCasey
06-25-2013, 03:08 PM
I found N3027 and 217359 in the Finland DNA project (3.457 submissions). I ran them through my L21 SNP predictor and they match the L226 fingerprint under L21:

N3027 - 6 of 9 match for L226 fingerprint - predicted 20 % odds of testing positive for L226
217359 - 6 of 9 match for L226 fingerprint - predicted 20 % odds of testing positive for L226
217359 also is 80 % predicted for L744 and L526 which are also under L21 - so these submission match known L21 fingerprints.
It is very unusual to be predicted for multiple fingerprints as well - but L21 fingerprint matches do overlap for low matches.

However, the SNP reports do not list either L21+ or Z253+ for the above two submissions. So these submission could be
L21 but it seems very odd that L21 and Z253 do not test positive as well. It also seems very odd that another mutation
of L226 would match the L226 fingerprint under L21.

rms2
06-25-2013, 03:28 PM
Both N0327 and 217359 show up as M231+ (N) and Tat+ (M46+/P105+ or N1C1) on the SNP Results page of the Finland Project and have none of the R (M207+) pedigree, as well.

This illustrates the value of having at least some portion of the pedigree tested in determining one's terminal SNP. If one is going to call someone R-L226, that person should also be tested L21+>DF13+>Z253+ at least, if not for the entire R pedigree.

I'm kind of glad I got into genetic genealogy when I did and so have results from FTDNA's old "Deep SNP-R1b" and "Deep Clade" series, giving me the whole R (M207+) pedigree leading up to my terminal SNP. :beerchug:

rms2
06-25-2013, 03:38 PM
This is a slightly (but not entirely) off-topic aside, but my father-in-law is listed on an old Soviet document as belonging to the ethnic group "Tat". Hmmm . . .

Wish I could get my wife's uncle tested.

rms2
06-25-2013, 03:43 PM
This is a slightly (but not entirely) off-topic aside, but my father-in-law is listed on an old Soviet document as belonging to the ethnic group "Tat". Hmmm . . .

Wish I could get my wife's uncle tested.

Here's what I got for "Tat" as an ethnic group.

Tats, an Iranian ethnic group from the Caucasus

Tat language, a Western Iranian language spoken by the Tat ethnic group in Iran, The Republic of Azerbaijan, and Russia
JudŠo-Tat, the traditional language of the Juhurim or Mountain Jews of the eastern Caucasus Mountains, especially Dagestan

http://tat.askdefine.com/

So, I'm guessing "Tat" as an ethnicity has nothing to do with "Tat" the SNP. That last would make a good name for a rock band: "Tat the SNP" (like Mott the Hoople).