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Dominus
05-10-2017, 09:24 PM
I'm half Turkish half Finnish and here's some of my results:

15834

15836

Paternal haplogrup: I2a
Maternal haplogroup: H

Questions: How relevant is 4 % middle eastern in relation to my european ancestry? Does my paternal hp 12a indicate my father who was born in Turkey is actually slavic? Does 0,8 % east asian mean anything? How would you self identify in my shoes?

Oleg (Rus)
05-10-2017, 10:23 PM
I'm half Turkish half Finnish and here's some of my results:

15834

15836

Paternal haplogrup: I2a
Maternal haplogroup: H

Questions: How relevant is 4 % middle eastern in relation to my european ancestry? Does my paternal hp 12a indicate my father who was born in Turkey is actually slavic? Does 0,8 % east asian mean anything? How would you self identify in my shoes?

Hello, thanks for your results. Your haplogroup I2a indicates some Balkan ancestry, not necessarily Slavic, i.e. it can be Thracian or Albanian. Your 0,8% East Asian seem to be real, it can be received from both your Finnish and Turkish "parts". I consider your MENA % quite low for half-Turkish person, so maybe you have more Slavic than Turkish roots. In your shoes I would identify myself just as a mixed European person:)

Dominus
05-11-2017, 03:26 PM
Hello, thanks for your results. Your haplogroup I2a indicates some Balkan ancestry, not necessarily Slavic, i.e. it can be Thracian or Albanian.

It's sort of weird because my grandfather was a Greek islander from Crete and as far as I know I2a is not very common on Crete so I'm thinking he might not be originally cretan, but who knows.


Your 0,8% East Asian seem to be real, it can be received from both your Finnish and Turkish "parts".

https://s29.postimg.org/88ec502av/Eric_v4_Full_20170130071046_BGA1.png

It seems to be mostly on my fathers side, as seen in this map. But what does it mean exactly? Did some of my ancestors marry asians or what? And how far back?


I consider your MENA % quite low for half-Turkish person, so maybe you have more Slavic than Turkish roots. In your shoes I would identify myself just as a mixed European person:)

Yeah, my mixed background makes for an ambiguous identity but I do identify as a European more than a Turkish person since I know for a fact that my paternal grandparents were from the Balkans originally which seems to be verified thorugh my low MENA score.

Oleg (Rus)
05-11-2017, 04:49 PM
It's sort of weird because my grandfather was a Greek islander from Crete and as far as I know I2a is not very common on Crete so I'm thinking he might not be originally cretan, but who knows.


I don't think that I2a is impossible for islanders. It could come there from mainland Greece even in ancient times.

Roaring
05-11-2017, 08:00 PM
Please post your Gedmatch Eurogenes K13.

Dominus
05-12-2017, 12:06 AM
Please post your Gedmatch Eurogenes K13.

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 29.76
2 North_Atlantic 23.95
3 East_Med 14.74
4 West_Asian 11.79
5 West_Med 8.90
6 Siberian 3.76
7 Red_Sea 3.24
8 Amerindian 1.67
9 South_Asian 1.16


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Serbian @ 9.159951
2 Moldavian @ 9.179601
3 Romanian @ 10.845723
4 Croatian @ 11.898977
5 Hungarian @ 11.941941
6 Bulgarian @ 12.757720
7 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 16.955639
8 Austrian @ 17.027153
9 South_Polish @ 17.855743
10 Tatar @ 18.181215
11 East_German @ 18.391869
12 Ukrainian @ 18.584007
13 Southwest_Russian @ 20.407122
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 20.522390
15 Greek_Thessaly @ 21.668915
16 Polish @ 21.686329
17 Russian_Smolensk @ 23.138365
18 West_German @ 23.200397
19 Estonian_Polish @ 23.836845
20 Kargopol_Russian @ 24.170134

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Erzya +50% Italian_Abruzzo @ 5.168154


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Finnish +25% Kurdish_Jewish +25% Romanian @ 1.547066


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Finnish + Finnish + Kurdish_Jewish + Romanian @ 1.547066
2 Assyrian + Finnish + Finnish + Romanian @ 1.655256
3 Assyrian + East_Finnish + Romanian + Southwest_Finnish @ 1.683870
4 Finnish + Finnish + Iranian_Jewish + Romanian @ 1.743096
5 East_Finnish + Kurdish_Jewish + Romanian + Southwest_Finnish @ 1.768692
6 East_Finnish + Kurdish_Jewish + Serbian + Southwest_Finnish @ 1.830812
7 East_Finnish + Iranian_Jewish + Romanian + Southwest_Finnish @ 1.857141
8 Finnish + Finnish + Kurdish_Jewish + Serbian @ 1.896885
9 Assyrian + Finnish + Romanian + Southwest_Finnish @ 1.904034
10 Erzya + Hungarian + Kurdish_Jewish + North_Swedish @ 1.908889
11 Assyrian + East_Finnish + Serbian + Southwest_Finnish @ 1.936288
12 Lebanese_Druze + Lithuanian + North_German + Tatar @ 1.972561
13 Lebanese_Christian + Lithuanian + North_German + Tatar @ 1.995247
14 Finnish + Kurdish_Jewish + Romanian + Southwest_Finnish @ 2.002987
15 East_Finnish + Georgian_Jewish + Romanian + Southwest_Finnish @ 2.021206
16 Lebanese_Druze + Swedish + Tatar + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.040864
17 Erzya + Finnish + Kurdish_Jewish + West_German @ 2.052058
18 Finnish + Iranian_Jewish + Romanian + Southwest_Finnish @ 2.054478
19 East_Finnish + Iranian_Jewish + Serbian + Southwest_Finnish @ 2.078556
20 Assyrian + Bulgarian + Finnish + Finnish @ 2.084526

Roaring
05-12-2017, 08:56 PM
Well this results clearly show you being 1\2 Finnish and 1\2 "Turkish" so no surprise.

Tz85
05-12-2017, 11:46 PM
Well this results clearly show you being 1\2 Finnish and 1\2 "Turkish" so no surprise.

I beg to differ. East Med, and West Asian seems pretty low for someone half Turkish. I would say 25% Turkish at best. 4% just seems so low. Maybe you just didn't inherit as much of that admixture. I would suggest DNA Tribes SNP Analysis, to go into further detail.

Dominus
05-13-2017, 07:20 PM
I beg to differ. East Med, and West Asian seems pretty low for someone half Turkish. I would say 25% Turkish at best. 4% just seems so low. Maybe you just didn't inherit as much of that admixture. I would suggest DNA Tribes SNP Analysis, to go into further detail.

Does East Med equal Anatolian?

Anyway, I already got a pretty clarifying answer from Doug McDonald:


Most likely fit is 62.0% (+- 2.1%) Europe (various subcontinents) and 38.0% (+- 2.1%) Mideast (various subcontinents)

The following are possible population sets and their fractions, most likely at the top

Finland= 0.625 Armenian= 0.375 or
Russian= 0.592 Jewish= 0.408 or
Irish= 0.642 Turkish= 0.358

which is getting Finnish and Turkish, but not paired.

A custom fit gives Finland 0.5993 Cypriot 0.4007 as a good but not perfect fit.

Finland 0.5437 Turkish 0.4563 is a passable but less accurate fit.

constraining Finnish to 50% gives:

Finland 0.5001 Russian 0.1167 Cypriot 0.3832 or
Finland 0.5000 Tuscan 0.2306 Turkish 0.2694 or
Finland 0.5000 Romania 0.2492 Armenian 0.2508 or
Finland 0.5001 Poland 0.1231 Cypriot 0.3768 or
Finland 0.5000 Italian 0.1850 Turkish 0.3150 or
Finland 0.5001 Lithuania 0.1076 Cypriot 0.3923

constraining Turkish to be 50% gives

Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.3959 Lithuania 0.1041 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.4030 Poland 0.0970 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.4150 Belorus 0.0850 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.4096 Germany 0.0904 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.3925 Irish 0.1075 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.4267 English 0.0733 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.4525 French 0.0475 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.4470 Hungary 0.0530

with MUCH poorer fits.

This means you are likely more or less typical Finnish plus unusually Mediterranean (i.e. shore from Istanbul to Rome or the usual islands) admixed Turkish.

This fits with your father being Y chromosome halplgroup I, which is unusual in the mediterreanean area and rare in Turkey. The best two population fit was CLEARLY Finland-Cyprus ... which is doing very very well.
-------------------------------

So it seems my father is a mix between Anatolian/mediterranean basically. Which means I'm more "middle eastern" than 23andme shows, more like 25% as you proposed.

Tz85
05-13-2017, 08:17 PM
Does East Med equal Anatolian?

Anyway, I already got a pretty clarifying answer from Doug McDonald:


Most likely fit is 62.0% (+- 2.1%) Europe (various subcontinents) and 38.0% (+- 2.1%) Mideast (various subcontinents)

The following are possible population sets and their fractions, most likely at the top

Finland= 0.625 Armenian= 0.375 or
Russian= 0.592 Jewish= 0.408 or
Irish= 0.642 Turkish= 0.358

which is getting Finnish and Turkish, but not paired.

A custom fit gives Finland 0.5993 Cypriot 0.4007 as a good but not perfect fit.

Finland 0.5437 Turkish 0.4563 is a passable but less accurate fit.

constraining Finnish to 50% gives:

Finland 0.5001 Russian 0.1167 Cypriot 0.3832 or
Finland 0.5000 Tuscan 0.2306 Turkish 0.2694 or
Finland 0.5000 Romania 0.2492 Armenian 0.2508 or
Finland 0.5001 Poland 0.1231 Cypriot 0.3768 or
Finland 0.5000 Italian 0.1850 Turkish 0.3150 or
Finland 0.5001 Lithuania 0.1076 Cypriot 0.3923

constraining Turkish to be 50% gives

Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.3959 Lithuania 0.1041 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.4030 Poland 0.0970 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.4150 Belorus 0.0850 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.4096 Germany 0.0904 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.3925 Irish 0.1075 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.4267 English 0.0733 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.4525 French 0.0475 or
Turkish 0.5000 Finland 0.4470 Hungary 0.0530

with MUCH poorer fits.

This means you are likely more or less typical Finnish plus unusually Mediterranean (i.e. shore from Istanbul to Rome or the usual islands) admixed Turkish.

This fits with your father being Y chromosome halplgroup I, which is unusual in the mediterreanean area and rare in Turkey. The best two population fit was CLEARLY Finland-Cyprus ... which is doing very very well.
-------------------------------

So it seems my father is a mix between Anatolian/mediterranean basically. Which means I'm more "middle eastern" than 23andme shows, more like 25% as you proposed.

This does make more sense than 23andme's analysis. Greek, seems to make more sense.

Dominus
05-13-2017, 11:33 PM
EUtest
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 17.84
2 EAST_EURO 17.08
3 SOUTH_BALTIC 14.79
4 EAST_MED 13.39
5 ATLANTIC 12.55
6 WEST_ASIAN 8.72
7 WEST_MED 6.90
8 MIDDLE_EASTERN 4.63
9 SIBERIAN 2.43
10 EAST_ASIAN 1.19


Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Serbian @ 7.766776
2 HU @ 11.759028
3 RO @ 12.070284
4 AT @ 13.076187
5 West_&_Central_German @ 19.208387
6 PL @ 19.466187
7 UA @ 19.736729
8 Ukrainian-Russian @ 19.773951
9 West_Russian @ 20.518389
10 NL @ 21.029882
11 North_Swedish @ 21.034203
12 East_Russian @ 21.884630
13 South_Finnish @ 22.182364
14 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 22.576145
15 DK @ 22.875669
16 East_Finnish @ 22.993782
17 NO @ 23.033995
18 North_Italian @ 23.035732
19 FR @ 23.299898
20 English @ 23.434898

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% AJ +50% East_Finnish @ 4.490491


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% East_Finnish +25% FR +25% Mandean @ 3.035222


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Assyrian + Serbian + South_Finnish + South_Finnish @ 2.491968
2 Assyrian + East_Finnish + North_Swedish + Serbian @ 2.595024
3 East_Finnish + Mandean + North_Swedish + Serbian @ 2.764558
4 Mandean + Serbian + South_Finnish + South_Finnish @ 2.788008
5 East_Finnish + HU + Mandean + North_Swedish @ 2.794957
6 Assyrian + East_Finnish + HU + North_Swedish @ 2.835534
7 Assyrian + East_Finnish + East_Finnish + FR @ 2.945350
8 Assyrian + AT + East_Finnish + South_Finnish @ 2.947676
9 East_Russian + Mandean + South_Finnish + West_&_Central_German @ 2.969198
10 East_Finnish + English + Mandean + Ukrainian-Russian @ 2.977207
11 Assyrian + AT + North_Russian + North_Swedish @ 2.990613
12 AT + Mandean + North_Russian + North_Swedish @ 2.995486
13 Assyrian + East_Russian + South_Finnish + West_&_Central_German @ 3.001662
14 Assyrian + East_Finnish + Serbian + South_Finnish @ 3.028872
15 East_Finnish + East_Finnish + FR + Mandean @ 3.035222
16 AT + East_Russian + Mandean + North_Swedish @ 3.051683
17 AT + East_Finnish + Mandean + North_Swedish @ 3.077186
18 AT + East_Finnish + Mandean + South_Finnish @ 3.132475
19 Assyrian + East_Finnish + English + Ukrainian-Russian @ 3.132819
20 East_Russian + Mandean + NL + South_Finnish @ 3.136600
-------------------
This looks more like my 23andme results.

fished
05-14-2017, 12:58 AM
It seems to be mostly on my fathers side, as seen in this map. But what does it mean exactly? Did some of my ancestors marry asians or what? And how far back?

As you may know, the Turkish language arrived in Anatolia (modern day Turkey) from Central Asia with the Oghuz Turks a little less than a millennium ago. These Turkic-speaking inhabitants of Central Asia were a mixture of West Eurasian and East Asian ancestry, much like many modern Central Asians. When the Turks arrived in Anatolia, they mixed with local peoples who eventually adopted Islam and the Turkish language.

As a result, most modern day Anatolian Turks have some degree of Central Asian ancestry, which in turn includes East Asian ancestry. In many Turks this East Asian ancestry is only around 5 - 10% or even less (in your case, for example, it's very minor), however I have seen some Turkish individuals who are as much as 20% East Asian overall.

Roaring
05-14-2017, 02:54 PM
I beg to differ. East Med, and West Asian seems pretty low for someone half Turkish. I would say 25% Turkish at best. 4% just seems so low. Maybe you just didn't inherit as much of that admixture. I would suggest DNA Tribes SNP Analysis, to go into further detail.

Well, rereading it now i do understand, that my post wasn't so clear, i put turkish in quote meaning that his father likely commes from Ottomon Empire area, on not being 1\2 ethnic Anatolian Turk i do agree, he may have other admixture, like Balkan turk f.e., who are mostly local Balkanites with a varying degree of Anatolian Turkish imput.

Dominus
05-14-2017, 05:11 PM
As you may know, the Turkish language arrived in Anatolia (modern day Turkey) from Central Asia with the Oghuz Turks a little less than a millennium ago. These Turkic-speaking inhabitants of Central Asia were a mixture of West Eurasian and East Asian ancestry, much like many modern Central Asians. When the Turks arrived in Anatolia, they mixed with local peoples who eventually adopted Islam and the Turkish language.

As a result, most modern day Anatolian Turks have some degree of Central Asian ancestry, which in turn includes East Asian ancestry. In many Turks this East Asian ancestry is only around 5 - 10% or even less (in your case, for example, it's very minor), however I have seen some Turkish individuals who are as much as 20% East Asian overall.

Yeah, I know, but I want to know the genealogical time-line; when and how many of those Mongols inflicted upon my caucasianness.

fished
05-15-2017, 10:09 PM
Yeah, I know, but I want to know the genealogical time-line; when and how many of those Mongols inflicted upon my caucasianness.

It depends what you mean. Proto-Turkic may have originally been spoken around the Altai, and we have ancient DNA samples from around that region that were already a mix of West and East Eurasian as much as 8,000 years ago. The East Siberian and North Asian steppe has long, long been a meeting place of East and West.

Turkic speakers probably began to expand in large numbers out of their northern homeland and across Central Asia around the 5th century AD. The peoples they met and absorbed were mostly Indo-European speakers, and genetically probably mostly West Eurasian. Even then, though, East Asian-related ancestry had already entered parts of Central Asia long before the Turkic expansions, as we have ancient samples from Xinjiang and Kazakhstan that already had East Asian haplogroups centuries and millennia before the arrival of the Turks. The Turks probably just added a new layer of East Eurasian ancestry to populations that were already mixed.

Then the earliest Turkic speakers entered Eastern Anatolia in the 11th century. So if you're asking when your first "Caucasian" ancestor to pair up with a "Mongol" lived, the answer is "many millennia ago". If you're asking when your first Central Asian ancestor to pair up with a local Anatolian lived, the answer is probably no earlier than the 11th century.

As for "how many", well, according to your 23andme results, around 1% of your ancestors, according to your Gedmatch scores, maybe closer to 3%. Which, as I said, is pretty low for Turkish standards.