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View Full Version : R-Z17153 instead of R-U152



hannah-lena
05-12-2017, 09:34 PM
Hey Community!

"My" paternal haplogroup did a change now. It went from U152 to Z17153 under DF19!
Does somebody has informations to z17153 ? Why did they change it now, when it didn't change with the 67-marker? Is this a new found SNP?

Thank you !

Dewsloth
05-12-2017, 10:17 PM
Did someone do a Big Y or SNP pack? In my experience, the STRs are not terribly reliable for a lot of DF19s.

hannah-lena
05-12-2017, 10:22 PM
We did no Big Y or SNP test ! It just change out of the blue..

Your Confirmed Haplogroup is R-Z17153

Haplogroup R-P312 is the descendant of the major R-P25 (aka R-M343) lineage and is the most common in Central Europe, Spain, France, Portugal, and the British Isles.

Dewsloth
05-12-2017, 10:46 PM
I don't even see R-Z17153 on the DF19 list. [edit: I see it now on the SNP list, not on the terminal SNP Chart -- looks like "you" might end up with Z17155 or Z17156 as a terminal SNP with more testing]
Have you joined the FTDNA DF19 member group? The admins there know a lot (including more than FTDNA) about the SNPs.

hannah-lena
05-13-2017, 08:45 AM
Thank you Dewsloth! I will ask them, if they can help me. A thing I really wonder about is the new haplotype I received 3 months after the results of the 67-marker.

Is it possible that there aren't a lot information's about DF19 and the subgroups? The only thing I can find is the Ftdna-group itself.

Dewsloth
05-13-2017, 02:11 PM
You're right. There isn't a lot of information so far on DF19 outside of the FTDNA group. But the group has a fair bit and is always looking for more. Also, since DF19 is a subclade of P312, it shares the P312 history with the other subclades (like L21,L238, DF27,DF99, and U152) - they all share a common ancestor.

I think so far the oldest confirmed DF19 is part of the Driffield Terrace Roman burials, in York, about 200AD. However DF19 should roughly be at least as old as the other P312 subclades and new research could come up with something 1000 years older at any time. Some burials already identified only as P312 could later be determined to beDF19, I think this is what happened with the Driffield soldier/gladiator.
If your most distant DF19 ancestor was from Austria, he looks like the first from there in the group, although there are some from Bavaria so it's not too unusual.

hannah-lena
05-13-2017, 02:35 PM
Thank you for your answer !
I wrote ftdna and the Df19 group and am now waiting for an explanation or some help !

mafe
05-13-2017, 03:24 PM
Did you do the Geno 2.0 test? I can see two kits in the U152 project who are now R-Z17153. This might be a glitch if you were listed as U152+ before.

hannah-lena
05-13-2017, 06:21 PM
Yes mafe you are right ! If the changed kits are from Austria it is probably us...
We did Geno before and we had problems! Geno clustered my father as R-z191. On Ftdna we had a glitch for 2 months until they categorized him as U152 when we received the 67 results. That's the point why I am so confused at the moment. I mean it is a whole new sistergroup not a subgroup.
I wrote them and hope to get an explanation or correction soon.
Why does this even change out of nowhere?!

mafe
05-13-2017, 08:40 PM
Yes mafe you are right ! If the changed kits are from Austria it is probably us...
We did Geno before and we had problems! Geno clustered my father as R-z191. On Ftdna we had a glitch for 2 months until they categorized him as U152 when we received the 67 results. That's the point why I am so confused at the moment. I mean it is a whole new sistergroup not a subgroup.
I wrote them and hope to get an explanation or correction soon.
Why does this even change out of nowhere?!

Yes, one of the kits is from Austria so it must be yours. On the SNP page you are confirmed U152+. Z191 is not very reliable because it appears in many subclades and haplogroups. Some SNPs are problematic and the Geno 2.0 test often has problems with SNPs that appear in more than one subclade or haplogroup. In your SNP list are several SNPs that belong to various subclades so you might belong to a different subclade although it is more likely that you are U152+. You are also positive for Z39 which is an SNP below U152>Z36.

hannah-lena
05-13-2017, 08:52 PM
Yes, one of the kits is from Austria so it must be yours.

Thank you mafe, this is very helpfull!


In your SNP list are several SNPs that belong to various subclades so you might belong to a different subclade although it is more likely that you are U152+. You are also positive for Z39 which is an SNP below U152>Z36.

What do you mean with several SNPs positive in different subgroups? How is this possible? you can't be positive for one SNP if your ancestors didn't "move that way", can you? Or are they false positives?

Z36 seems very accurate since most of the matches my father has are Z36!

Thank you :) !

Dewsloth
05-14-2017, 02:18 AM
I think FTDNA has blown a gasket. I just noticed MY DAD is now listed as Z17153 (he hasn't done any SNP packs or Big Y and Geno 2.0 had him as far as S4281).

I think FTDNA may be wrongly assigning non-diagnostic SNPs as terminal ones this week.

hannah-lena
05-14-2017, 06:47 AM
Your are right dewsloth. I contacted one admin of the DF19 group as you said and he wrote me a mail saying there are more kits like ours...

emmental
05-14-2017, 11:08 PM
Hello Hannah-lena,

It's great to see you're on the forum!! Sorry I haven't yet responded to your email - I just returned from vacation. Something does seem wrong with the R-Z17153 designation. I would be extremely surprised if you are not FGC6418. Your father's STR signature matches all the off-modal markers which FGC6418+ people share. They are DYS19=15, DYS437=14, DYS448=20 and DYS511=9. These are all relatively rare in P312 subclades, and your father has all four of these off-modal markers.

Jim

hannah-lena
05-15-2017, 07:48 AM
Hello Jim!

What an amazing surprise to see you here. Hope you had a good vacation!
That's what I thought! It would be way off if the haplotyp changes that much! This reminds me to purchase the SNP-Pack..
I think they will correct this soon since a lot of kits seem to have the same phenomenon.

Hannah

hannah-lena
05-15-2017, 08:30 PM
Everything is fine again!
Back to R-U152 :)

razyn
06-02-2017, 04:17 PM
I think FTDNA has blown a gasket. I just noticed MY DAD is now listed as Z17153

I have a couple of problem kits in the DF27 project with Z17153+ listed as "terminal." Since that is supposed to be a DF19>DF88 subclade I signed in to the P312 GAP and filtered the project SNP results for Z17153+. I got perhaps a few dozen examples, from all over the map, including a handful who have been advised to join the DF27 project (and most have done so) because of some other SNP result. Looking at the YFull chromosome browser, that position looks perfectly stable to me (23970053 ancestral is A, and all of the DF27+ guys at YFull have an A there). So I'm pretty sure these are for the most part false positives. But is there anything we can do to make them go away?

swid
06-02-2017, 06:35 PM
FTDNA really needs to just blacklist that SNP (and R-S7123) from Geno 2.0 results entirely.

dan1967
06-03-2017, 12:39 PM
Hello,

I am R-U152 but after transferring my data to FTDNA was re-designated R-Z17153. My maternal line is T1 in Geno but re-designated R2'JT in FTDNA. The explanation I was given is "Our Y-DNA and mtDNA phylogenic tree will be similar to the Genographic Project's designations but not identical. The results are as specific and as refined as we are able to provide at this time. However, we are working to add more refined haplogroups to our Y-DNA and mtDNA trees when able."

Am still waiting to here from Geno people for their explanation.

johnsilverellargo
06-22-2017, 09:51 AM
Just hapened the same for me. Until now I was R-U152, but a few weeks ago changed to Z17153 under DF19 (not very probable...). I am also Z39+ (an specific marker of U152...) I think there must be an error in FTDNA.
Reading the last post I think it should take several weeks to reorder things...