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View Full Version : Howells/Cecil Herfordshire Paternal connection - documented evidence?



JohnHowellsTyrfro
05-19-2017, 10:50 PM
People will probably know from another thread that I appear to share paternal descent with the Cecil line (1st Baron Burgley who claimed Herefordshire ancestry)
How are the Howells and Cecils connected? I found something that might give a big clue. One of my comparatively recent Howells ancestors is recorded as being a farmer at "Old Hay". I have tried in vain to find out where this is. During my Internet searches I came across this reference on the Ewyas Lacy study group (source Hereford Records Office) :-
" “Gift (13th January 1389)
Between
1) John de la Hay, lord of Urishay
2) Walter ap Howel
Parcel of land called Oldeheye [Old Hay], stretching from Walter’s house to Holbrokesford, and from land of William Syllas to land of Jevan Rygel, and one messuage enclosed by boundary markers, (enclosed from common land).
Walter to pay 2s 6d pa with all usual dues including suit of court.
Walter to enclose his fields, and pasture his beasts in the common pasture, viz. 12 steers and 12 cows, 2 horses and 40 sheep.
Warranty
Witnesses: John Henry, John Millies, John Wodman and others.
Given at Hay Urry, Wednesday next after Epiphany 10 Richard II.
(Document is faded and partly illegible.)”

I understand the De La Hays were related to the Cecils of Allt yr Ynys Herefordshire through marriage. Too much of a coincidence surely? Hereford Records Office did some family history research for me some years ago which started me down this trail. I am writing them to see if they can advise or help take this further. Never thought I might get this far! :) John

JMcB
05-20-2017, 12:04 AM
People will probably know from another thread that I appear to share paternal descent with the Cecil line (1st Baron Burgley who claimed Herefordshire ancestry)
How are the Howells and Cecils connected? I found something that might give a big clue. One of my comparatively recent Howells ancestors is recorded as being a farmer at "Old Hay". I have tried in vain to find out where this is. During my Internet searches I came across this reference on the Ewyas Lacy study group (source Hereford Records Office) :-
" “Gift (13th January 1389)
Between
1) John de la Hay, lord of Urishay
2) Walter ap Howel
Parcel of land called Oldeheye [Old Hay], stretching from Walter’s house to Holbrokesford, and from land of William Syllas to land of Jevan Rygel, and one messuage enclosed by boundary markers, (enclosed from common land).
Walter to pay 2s 6d pa with all usual dues including suit of court.
Walter to enclose his fields, and pasture his beasts in the common pasture, viz. 12 steers and 12 cows, 2 horses and 40 sheep.
Warranty
Witnesses: John Henry, John Millies, John Wodman and others.
Given at Hay Urry, Wednesday next after Epiphany 10 Richard II.
(Document is faded and partly illegible.)”

I understand the De La Hays were related to the Cecils of Allt yr Ynys Herefordshire through marriage. Too much of a coincidence surely? Hereford Records Office did some family history research for me some years ago which started me down this trail. I am writing them to see if they can advise or help take this further. Never thought I might get this far! :) John

Congratulations John, that's a very interesting and I would imagine gratifying discovery!

JohnHowellsTyrfro
05-20-2017, 04:43 AM
Congratulations John, that's a very interesting and I would imagine gratifying discovery!

Thank you, it is indeed. Like many other people I've had a brick wall with tracing my ancestry for some years now. I'm not obsessed with a connection to "nobility", but it gives me some hope of going further back in time. I wouldn't have found the link without the Y test. :) John