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wombatofthenorth
05-20-2017, 01:38 AM
Hmm, so much for our STR matches.

We had four at distance 2 at STR25 (three of whom shared the same last name which each other and are part of the same broad greater family group) and a distance 3 and 4 match at STR37 (both were STR25 matches). Of the four, only our distance 3 at STR37 has tested to STR67.

STR67 just came in for us and we get ZERO matches!

We wondered if maybe we might pick up something totally fresh or find the STR 37 distance 3 match might stay at 3 or only rise to 4 or something but nope. It obviously rose a ton and went over the cutoff. So it seems our matches to the far southeastern Polish and Czech families (the matches mentioned for STR25 and STR37) are likely so distant to probably not mean anything at all.

It's quite an R-L20 mystery.

None of our locations are typical for the haplogroup at all, least of all ours which traces back to Latvia (and we see only one single other tester in all of FTDNA who lists R-L20 and Latvia as origin). The fact that the Polish and Czech matches above seemed a bit out of typical R-L20 range had made them seem promising, but it seems not so much.

So it seems we end up with zero hints whatsoever now that the STR67 has ended up basically making the STR37 probably too distant to matter at all?

All we have is a seeming ethnic Latvian peasant born around 1824ish in Latvia to a surnameless father "Jurre".

Really wonder how in the world we ended up with R-L20 and seemingly such an odd branch of it (with zero STR76 matches and in terms of SNPs, between Geno 2.0, Geno 2.0 NG, 23 so far we shown negative for all the major known sub R-L20 those kits tested, which granted still leaves out a couple) in Latvia.

I guess it is too bad that France and Germany and not much better tested. Perhaps it came from some French/German solider/trader passing through the Baltics long ago? Some out of wedlock with some German baron way back?? Maybe if people in Germany and France tested beyond the barest levels maybe we'd find all sorts of matches? Or maybe our group is just very unusual and rare?

I guess it's not possible the history and formation of R-L20 as thought now could be so wrong as to allow for a chance for R-L20 to have been in the Baltic region in ancient times?

I guess the 3 and 4 distance at STR37 maybe hint at some way, way back tie to maybe some German family that split maybe a thousand years ago and surprisingly had one branch end up in the Baltics and another to Czech area (which later split to two parts maybe 500 years ago?)???

Osiris
05-20-2017, 02:19 AM
Even though they match you at 37 and disappear at 67 you can open the Tip calculations on the 37 match and then change it to calculate at 67 strings. That might tell you something. As always look for them in the U152 project and see what strings they differ on, maybe it's some fast switching STR. In addition it's not impossible for the differences to bunch up in the 50s and 60s and then from 67-111 look pretty clean.

Ooh, even better there's a excel spreadsheet for the R1b project I think for people that test to 67. When your data gets loaded to it you can type an X and press a button and it lists all people who tested to 67 in the order of their string distance to you. It's very useful. Make sure you get into that.

It's in the R1b project > About > Results > R1b Haplotypes spreadsheet

lgmayka
05-20-2017, 01:41 PM
So it seems our matches to the far southeastern Polish and Czech families (the matches mentioned for STR25 and STR37) are likely so distant to probably not mean anything at all.
Latvia was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, so feel free to join the Polish Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/polish/activity-feed). The administrator can at least compare your 67 Y-STRs against the rest of the project.

wombatofthenorth
05-21-2017, 05:34 AM
Even though they match you at 37 and disappear at 67 you can open the Tip calculations on the 37 match and then change it to calculate at 67 strings. That might tell you something.

Thanks, I had somehow missed that the tip calculator let you compare across the full 67 results. I've tried that so far and it definitely does want to push it a lot farther back than the 37 did!

At 37 it predicted:
8 59.21%
12 87.07%
16 96.44%
20 99.10%
24 99.79%

At 67 it predicts:
8 4.66%
12 25.02%
16 54.90%
20 78.76%
24 91.79%

So it seems it really didn't like those 38-67 marker differences at all. Seems they were probably pretty significant and not known super fast movers perhaps.

And I wouldn't be surprised if it is in the 24+ zone considering that he has a twice as close match at 37 to the other guy and yet they find no common ancestor to year 1700 (if I recall correctly, but I might have that mixed up).
Another interesting note though is that Latvia didn't really have all that many outsiders in it from the maybe 3000ish BC to 1100AD period and really not a whole lot until probably 1400 and didn't really start to get much more again until 1600 I think.