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DMXX
07-03-2013, 02:25 PM
Ancestrally, I am fully Iranian (Azeri and Persian) from northwest and northern Iran. My primary motivation in taking Geno 2.0 was to flesh out the phylogenetic depth of my Y-DNA and mtDNA, as they are both rare in Iran (both <3% nationally) and relatively understudied compared to the more populous Eurasian lineages.


Autosomal Results


506507508

Mediterranean - 47%
Southwest Asian - 32%
North European - 12%
Northeast Asian - 5%
Southeast Asian - 2%

The values seen in this portion of my results are somewhat similar to those in open-source projects (Dodecad, Eurogenes, Harappa etc., see below). When comparing those results with the Iranian average, I did anticipate the possibility my top result would not be Iranian. Indeed, it turns out to be Greek, with my Mediterranean (+5%), SW Asian (-10%) and N European (+4%) values relative to Iranians presumably being the justification. Having said this, I've just noticed my scores are actually closer to North Caucasians than any other:

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/populations_Northern-Caucasian_575.png

Therefore, according to Geno 2.0, I'm autosomally closer to North Caucasians than to Iranians.

With regard to the non-human hominid results, I'm interested, but these numbers don't mean very much to me without a comparison.

Some of my results from the open-source genome projects.

Dodecad K12b (results, Oracle single population sharing, two population sharing)



1 Caucasus 38.37
2 Gedrosia 25.68
3 Southwest_Asian 13.04
4 North_European 8.35
5 Atlantic_Med 5.49
6 South_Asian 4.09
7 East_Asian 2.53
8 Siberian 1.6

1 Iranian (Dodecad) 4.6
2 Kurd (Dodecad) 5.41
3 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 6.17
4 Iranians (Behar) 6.93
5 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 11.09
6 Turks (Behar) 13.3
7 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 13.31
8 Turkish (Dodecad) 15.76
9 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 16.67
10 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 16.9

1 69.7% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) + 30.3% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.58
2 59.7% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 40.3% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.64
3 58.7% Assyrian (Dodecad) + 41.3% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.67
4 59.6% Georgia_Jews (Behar) + 40.4% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.86
5 94.6% Iranian (Dodecad) + 5.4% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.11
6 95% Iranian (Dodecad) + 5% Russian_B (Behar) @ 3.13
7 94.9% Iranian (Dodecad) + 5.1% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 3.14
8 95% Iranian (Dodecad) + 5% Russian (Dodecad) @ 3.15
9 95.1% Iranian (Dodecad) + 4.9% Belorussian (Behar) @ 3.15
10 94.9% Iranian (Dodecad) + 5.1% Polish (Dodecad) @ 3.16



Eurogenes EUtest (results, Oracle single population sharing, two population sharing)



# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 33.06
2 WEST_ASIAN 27.03
3 SOUTH_ASIAN 11.43
4 MIDDLE_EASTERN 8.03
5 EAST_EURO 6.96
6 ATLANTIC 3.06
7 SOUTH_BALTIC 2.8
8 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 2.37
9 SIBERIAN 2.04
10 WEST_MED 1.88
11 EAST_ASIAN 1.24

1 IR 3.53
2 Kurdish 5.67
3 TR 10.53
4 Assyrian 13.98
5 Mandean 14.25
6 Armenian 14.65
7 IQ 17.88
8 Lezgin 21.93
9 GR 23.08
10 GE 23.36


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 97.6% IR + 2.4% South_Indian @ 2.95
2 94.4% IR + 5.6% RO @ 2.96
3 96.9% IR + 3.1% Bangladeshi @ 2.97
4 95.6% IR + 4.4% HU @ 3.02
5 95.3% IR + 4.7% North_Italian @ 3.02
6 96.2% IR + 3.8% ES @ 3.05
7 96.1% IR + 3.9% PT @ 3.06
8 95.1% IR + 4.9% Serbian @ 3.06
9 93% IR + 7% AJ @ 3.07
10 96.4% IR + 3.6% UA @ 3.07



Harappa World (results, Oracle single population sharing, two population sharing)



# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.49
2 Baloch 25.66
3 SW-Asian 11.79
4 NE-Euro 6.57
5 Mediterranean 6.54
6 S-Indian 3.87
7 NE-Asian 2.35
8 Siberian 1.37
9 Beringian 1.23

# Population (source) Distance
1 iranian (harappa) 7.76
2 kurd (harappa) 7.76
3 kurd (xing) 7.76
4 kurd (yunusbayev) 8.31
5 turkish (harappa) 9.29
6 iranian (behar) 11.88
7 turk (behar) 12.58
8 azeri (harappa) 12.58
9 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 12.58

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.8% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 35.2% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.65
2 64.8% armenian (harappa) + 35.2% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.65
3 64.8% assyrian (harappa) + 35.2% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.65
4 64.8% azerbaijan-jew (behar) + 35.2% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.65
5 64.8% georgia-jew (behar) + 35.2% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.65
6 64.8% iranian-jew (behar) + 35.2% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.65
7 64.8% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 35.2% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.65
8 64.8% iraq-jew (behar) + 35.2% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.65
9 70% kurd (yunusbayev) + 30% turkmen (yunusbayev) @ 4.4




Y-Chromosomal and Mitochondrial Results


510509

The results state I am Y-DNA R-M124 and mtDNA D4 (no surprises there). A heat map isn't indicated for R-M124 because of insufficient samples. I'm somewhat surprised to hear this, considering thousands of samples have reportedly been taken by the Genographic Project. As expected, very few matches exist in the "Our Story" feature.

As mentioned earlier, I took the Geno 2.0 test to probe into my uniparental markers. Analysis of these will be sought in the raw data. Will update this thread with any new findings concerning this.

Scarlet Ibis
07-04-2013, 02:13 AM
Where is the SE Asian coming from? Noise?

Rain
07-04-2013, 05:08 PM
Autosomal Results


506507508

Mediterranean - 47%
Southwest Asian - 32%
North European - 12%
Northeast Asian - 5%
Southeast Asian - 2%


Your results are not too dissimilar to mine. Geno 2.0 scored me as being;

Mediterranean - 42%
Northern European - 26%
Southwest Asian - 22%
Northeast Asian - 5%
Southeast Asian - 3%

My ancestry being ethnically Turkish from western Anatolia.

DMXX
07-04-2013, 11:37 PM
Your results are not too dissimilar to mine. Geno 2.0 scored me as being;

Mediterranean - 42%
Northern European - 26%
Southwest Asian - 22%
Northeast Asian - 5%
Southeast Asian - 3%

My ancestry being ethnically Turkish from western Anatolia.

This is the score I'd expect for a western Anatolian Turk; relative to someone from the southern Caucasus or Iran, decreased SW Asian and increased Europe-specific components (Mediterranean and N Euro in this case), as well as elevated East Eurasian values. The former reflecting the geographic difference, the latter linguistic. Our East Eurasian scores are likely similar because of our Turkish-speaking backgrounds.

seferhabahir
07-05-2013, 12:25 AM
I find it interesting that Geno 2.0 is fond of using Iranian and Sardinian (in that order) as the two reference populations for several Ashkenazi testers, including me, a distant Y-DNA R2 cousin, and Sean Silver (Y-DNA R1b-L584, who posted his Geno results on another board). None of us are really that close to the Iranian reference numbers, but all three have very similar values for Mediterranean, Southwest Asian and Northern European. Then it varies wildly for Northeast Asian, Oceanian, and Sub-Saharan African (probably these have been influenced by a single recent ancestor in each case).

Me
Mediterranean - 58%
Southwest Asian - 21%
Northern European - 17%
Northeast Asian - 3%

Cousin
Mediterranean - 55%
Southwest Asian - 22%
Northern European - 17%
Oceanian - 2%

Silver
Mediterranean - 56%
Southwest Asian - 22%
Northern European - 18%
Sub-Saharan African - 2%

DMXX
07-05-2013, 12:35 AM
Those results actually seem closer to Georgians or Greeks than Iranians. There's clearly something wrong with their reference listing service. That's no different to mine; one can clearly observe my results are closest to the North Caucasians than the Greeks.

I'll make an inquiry shortly and will edit in the sent message into this post. Would you be happy with me including those results (yours, your cousin's and Mr. Silver's) as additional examples alongside mine?

seferhabahir
07-05-2013, 12:56 AM
Those results actually seem closer to Georgians or Greeks than Iranians. There's clearly something wrong with their reference listing service. That's no different to mine; one can clearly observe my results are closest to the North Caucasians than the Greeks.

I'll make an inquiry shortly and will edit in the sent message into this post. Would you be happy with me including those results (yours, your cousin's and Mr. Silver's) as additional examples alongside mine?


These three sets of values were all put up on a public board, so I have no objection. But I don't know if you will get very far with them. I haven't questioned the way Geno 2.0 does reference populations because they are obviously doing some kind of algorithmic interpolation with the reference data sets they have. I think if they were to do it differently, they might have included some Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrachi reference populations (or just Jewish). The way they did it made them use widely separated populations in order to provide two references in the analysis. I have another cousin who came out Georgian and Iberian (again, two widely separated geographic populations). I'm sure they have good reasons why they did it the way they did (Jewish does not fit neatly into one geographic place), but if we ran those autosomal data through Dr. McDonald's PCA tools, the three of us would have no doubt come out in the middle of a "classic" Jewish cluster (mine did, providing an obvious match between known ancestries and clusters).

seferhabahir
07-05-2013, 06:24 AM
I have another cousin who came out Georgian and Iberian (again, two widely separated geographic populations).

This cousin, besides expected Mediterranean, Southwest Asian, and Northern European proportions (pretty similar to the other three), also has 2% Sub-Saharan African and 2% Southeast Asian in his mix. I looked at all of the reference populations again, and they don't really have a good population that fits Mediterranean 54-58%, Southwest Asian 20-22% , and Northern European 17-19%. Both Greek and Tuscan come kind of close but with less Asian and more European (both are Mediterranean 54%, Southwest Asian 17%, Northern European 28%). These two populations (also Sicilian) did show up as reasonably close in my DIYDodecad K12b analysis. There may be specific autosomal markers that are being found in both the Iranian and Sardinian reference populations even though the proportions do not match very well.

DMXX
07-05-2013, 07:14 AM
... There may be specific autosomal markers that are being found in both the Iranian and Sardinian reference populations even though the proportions do not match very well.

Highly unlikely; otherwise, one would expect a person of full Iranian heritage to have Iran as the first reference group rather than Greece. To date, I have not seen a shred of evidence I match Greeks to any exceptional degree with regard to shared segments. I have no Greek RF matches, my Dodecad Z-IBD Greek value was unremarkable for an Iranian and have no known ancestors in the direction of Greece beyond Iran's northwestern provinces.

This is precisely the reason why I intend to make an inquiry regarding their matching system. If I've physically observed my results match Iranians and North Caucasians better than Greeks, while the ones you've provided match Greeks and Tuscans better than Iranians, something is clearly amiss.

rockman
07-19-2013, 06:23 PM
I find it interesting that Geno 2.0 is fond of using Iranian and Sardinian (in that order) as the two reference populations for several Ashkenazi testers, including me, a distant Y-DNA R2 cousin, and Sean Silver (Y-DNA R1b-L584, who posted his Geno results on another board). None of us are really that close to the Iranian reference numbers, but all three have very similar values for Mediterranean, Southwest Asian and Northern European. Then it varies wildly for Northeast Asian, Oceanian, and Sub-Saharan African (probably these have been influenced by a single recent ancestor in each case).

Me
Mediterranean - 58%
Southwest Asian - 21%
Northern European - 17%
Northeast Asian - 3%

Cousin
Mediterranean - 55%
Southwest Asian - 22%
Northern European - 17%
Oceanian - 2%

Silver
Mediterranean - 56%
Southwest Asian - 22%
Northern European - 18%
Sub-Saharan African - 2%

I think they did the same for me, as Geno 2.0 gave me 2% Native American which is impossible. Seeing as Mongols and Altaians are the only others who have a small percentage of Native American, any ancestry from them would be too diluted by now to show any Native American. I feel like their algorithm just picks the best possible fit for small values it can't discern.

Imadaddin Nasimi
09-12-2013, 12:16 PM
Your results look like to me. I am fully Azerbaijani Turk from Azerbaijan Republic.

This is my results
http://i.imgur.com/o2xQ6bH.png

My maternal lineage from Tabriz --> Yerevan (now Armenia but historical Azerbaijani Khanate in 18th century) She is ethnic Azerbaijani.
My paternal lineage from East Iran (probably Mashhad or Herat)--> Esfahan-->Azerbaijan in 18 th century. He is ethnic Azerbaijani.

ZephyrousMandaru
09-22-2013, 11:02 PM
Nice results, I just ordered my Geno 2.0 DNA kit. I predict my two, and probably only principle components will be Mediterranean and Southwest Asian.

Sein
09-26-2013, 08:40 AM
Here are my results:
Southwest Asian=46%
Mediterranean=25%
Northern European=11%
Southeast Asian=11%
Northeast Asian=4%
Native American=2%
Can anyone guess my ethnicity?

Imadaddin Nasimi
09-26-2013, 07:00 PM
Here are my results:
Southwest Asian=46%
Mediterranean=25%
Northern European=11%
Southeast Asian=11%
Northeast Asian=4%
Native American=2%
Can anyone guess my ethnicity?

Are you from Pakistan? or Afghanistan, Tajikistan, East Iran?

Sein
09-26-2013, 08:50 PM
Hi Imadaddin,

I am a Pashtun, so Afghanistan is basically it (although my family originates from the Pakistani side of the Durand line, but since Pashtuns are a single ethnic group, that isn't necessarily relevant. I have seen the results for two Afghan Pashtun friends, and one of them has results virtually identical to my own). My top population is North Caucasian (Daghestanis, Abkhazians, and other unspecified Caucasian populations), and my second closest population is West Indian (Gujarati). I guess if one averaged these two populations, but with a distinct bias towards the North Caucasian, my location on the map would probably be in Eastern-Central Iran. In fact, the population whose components are most similar to my own happens to be the Iranian reference population (I think, although I might have to take another look at the reference populations). But, I think the population closest to me in terms of West vs East Eurasian are the Pamiri Tajik. They are 88% West Eurasian, I'm 82% West Eurasian. Although, you are actually closer in this respect, since you're 87% West Eurasian. Nevertheless, both populations are not really good matches, since I have more Northern European than the Iranian reference population, more Mediterranean than the Pamiri Tajik reference population, and more Southwest Asian than both.

I think these results make sense. Predominately West Eurasian, with minor East Eurasian admixture. Roughly intermediate between populations from the Northern Caucasus, and people from Northern-Western India, but with a bias towards the former. I think these results are perfectly reasonable, for someone whose origin lies in an area that ties together South, Central, and West Asia. I'd say Pashtuns belong to all three regions, and my results reflect that.

rockman
10-08-2013, 05:57 AM
Hello Sein

Your Geno 2.0 Results are very similar to my own.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=489&d=1372020114

Sein
10-08-2013, 06:35 AM
Hello rockman,

That is very interesting, our results are rather similar! If you don't mind me asking, what's your ethnic background?

rockman
10-09-2013, 12:19 AM
Sein, I am of mixed Indian and West/Central Asian background over the centuries. On different tests (Gedmatch) I showed a lot of affinity to Turkmens and for much of our history over the past 100 years we were situated in Bengal, India.

All in all I think we might be mixed Turkmen/Iranian/Bengali lol.

My two populations on Geno 2.0 were Northern Caucasian and South Indian. What about you?

Sein
10-09-2013, 04:17 AM
You have a very interesting and cosmopolitan background, rockman! Are you by any chance HRP0304? I'm HRP0282. I knew something complex was happening with your results, because the spreadsheet lists you as UP+Bengal, and your results don't really suggest that. Here is what I wrote at HAP, the first time I saw your results:
"HRP0304 has very interesting results. I mean, compare them to the half Punjabi, half UP participant. Not what I would have expected. Does not seem half Bengali and half UP. More like half Bengali, half West Asian." Also, we share the same maternal haplogroup.
My two closest populations for Geno 2.0 are Northern Caucasians and West Indians.

rockman
10-09-2013, 07:05 AM
Yes I am HRP0304 :)

Interestingly my single population groups would put me with Bene Menashe Jews, Sindhis, Burusho's and Pathans according to Dodecad.

I'm assuming your mtDNA m4'67 originates from Central India? I used to think my mtDNA came from Iran but it seems to be found mostly among people from Central India.

Sein
10-10-2013, 10:28 PM
Based on your mixed Bengali/Iranian/Central Asian background, I'd assume most calculators will have northwest South Asian populations as your closest matches, despite you not having any recent ancestry from the region. Do you get the Bene Menashe Jews (also known as Bene Isreal Jews on some calculators, which I think is the correct designation) a lot? I'd imagine so, since they're a South Asian population with very substantial West Asian-Southwest Asian admixture, and they cluster with the HGDP Pakistani populations on PCA plots, rather than with neighboring Indian populations. Most calculators have the HGDP Pashtuns as my closest population, unless the Kalash are included, in which case they tend to be the closest. The Burusho, Baloch, Brahui, Punjabi Jatts, Sindhis, and Tajiks tend to follow, in that approximate order. Then I get various North Indian and West Asian populations. Just out of curiosity, which Dodecad calculator did you use?

rockman
10-11-2013, 06:15 AM
I get the following

Dodecad K12b


# Population (source) Distance
1 Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) 9.36
2 Cochin_Jews (Behar) 17.61
3 Pathan (HGDP) 19.01
4 Burusho (HGDP) 20
5 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) 21.3
6 Jatt (Dodecad) 21.61
7 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) 23.35
8 Kshatriya (Metspalu) 23.55
9 Sindhi (HGDP) 23.82
10 Indian (Dodecad) 24.4
11 Iyer (Dodecad) 26.07
12 Iyengar (Dodecad) 27.2
13 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 27.55
14 Tharus (Metspalu) 27.78
15 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 28.22
16 GIH30 (Dodecad) 29.01
17 INS30 (SGVP) 29.41
18 Dharkars (Metspalu) 29.83
19 Muslim (Metspalu) 29.92
20 Kanjars (Metspalu) 30.79

Dodecad K7b


# Population (source) Distance
1 Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) 10.17
2 Burusho (HGDP) 13.41
3 Pathan (HGDP) 14.27
4 Sindhi (HGDP) 14.49
5 Jatt (Dodecad) 15.12
6 Cochin_Jews (Behar) 16.17
7 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) 18.1
8 Kshatriya (Metspalu) 20.17
9 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) 21.24
10 Indian (Dodecad) 21.86
11 Iyengar (Dodecad) 22.52
12 Iyer (Dodecad) 22.7
13 Balochi (HGDP) 25.21
14 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 25.72
15 Brahui (HGDP) 26.04
16 Muslim (Metspalu) 26.22
17 GIH30 (Dodecad) 26.82
18 INS30 (SGVP) 26.85
19 Makrani (HGDP) 26.89
20 Tharus (Metspalu) 27.14

Sein
10-11-2013, 06:57 AM
For comparison, my K12b results:

Gedrosia=37.66%
South_Asian=22.67%
Caucasus=15.42%
North_European=13.17%
Southwest_Asian=4.77%
East_Asian=3.64%
Siberian=2.45%
Northwest_African=0.19%
Atlantic_Med=0.03%

1 Pathan (HGDP) 7.92
2 Burusho (HGDP) 10.47
3 Jatt (Dodecad) 15.18
4 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 17.63
5 Sindhi (HGDP) 19.22
6 Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) 21.8
7 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 23.62
8 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) 23.99
9 Cochin_Jews (Behar) 26.36
10 Kshatriya (Metspalu) 27.68
11 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) 28.65
12 Indian (Dodecad) 29.25
13 Makrani (HGDP) 29.51
14 Iranians (Behar) 29.95
15 Balochi (HGDP) 30.61
16 Iyer (Dodecad) 31.08
17 Iranian (Dodecad) 31.87
18 Iyengar (Dodecad) 31.93
19 Kurd (Dodecad) 33.8
20 GIH30 (Dodecad) 34.66

DMXX
12-20-2013, 03:55 AM
A quick update since the original post:

- Some other mtDNA D4 profiles have been updated. All with known maternal ancestors seem to be either Japanese or Siberian. Not surprising given the great frequency and diversity of D4 in this part of Eurasia. Unfortunately none of these samples appear "close" to mine.

- No updates on the R2a-M124 result. Will be transferring the raw data to R2 Project for more analysis.


Your results look like to me. I am fully Azerbaijani Turk from Azerbaijan Republic.


Xoş gəlmişsiniz Imaddin; yes, our results are quite similar. It doesn't look like a coincidence that your NE Asian scores is double mine when I'm half Azeri Iranian. Fairly good chance my father's value will be around yours, though inheritance isn't always a 50-50 affair.



am a Pashtun, so Afghanistan is basically it (although my family originates from the Pakistani side of the Durand line, but since Pashtuns are a single ethnic group, that isn't necessarily relevant. I have seen the results for two Afghan Pashtun friends, and one of them has results virtually identical to my own). My top population is North Caucasian (Daghestanis, Abkhazians, and other unspecified Caucasian populations), and my second closest population is West Indian (Gujarati). I guess if one averaged these two populations, but with a distinct bias towards the North Caucasian, my location on the map would probably be in Eastern-Central Iran...


Welcome to the forum, Sein!

What you've posted is in accordance with the results I've seen from other Pashtuns online; I recall one (Shenandoah?) posted their McDonald BGA, showing them to be on the Iranian-Turkmen border.

The situation with Pashtuns isn't that dissimilar to the Kurds; despite the current distributions around the Durand Line in Af-Pak and Anatolia-N. Mesopotamia respectively, both genetically plot towards the Iranian plateau.

Whether or not Pashtuns and Iranic-speaking Iranians display significant DNA segment sharing with each other's an open question. Having said this, one curious observation is the similarity between the two groups in component scores, especially if the Near-Eastern and South-Asian specific autosomal components are set aside. This was an observation Dienekes also made (will post link once located).

Sein
12-20-2013, 05:28 AM
Thank you DMXX!

I have quite a few Iranian relatives at 23andMe. Interestingly, more Iranian matches than Pakistani matches. Perhaps this would apply to other Pashtuns as well? I'd love to see a fastIBD or ChromoPainter analysis of my raw-data, but I'm just too inept to try anything myself :biggrin1:.

I think you've hit the nail right on the head! From a cultural perspective, the Pashtun region is an eastern continuation of Greater Iran, so there might be some very strong and persistent genetic links at play. I think we could go so far as to say that Pashtuns and Iranic-speaking Iranians mutually share a very substantial proportion of their respective genetic ancestries. Although, being at the eastern edge of the Iranian plateau, we have quite a substantial South Asian affinity absent in currently sampled Iranian groups. And originating from the western portion of the plateau, most Iranians have quite a substantial Southwest Asian affinity. Still though, I find it very interesting that one of the factors differentiating Iranians from their western neighbors is a slightly heightened South Asian affinity.

Although, at Harappa Ancestry Project, there is an Iranian Bandari participant with some very distinctive results, HRP0355. This individual's Oracle results:

[1,] "pashtun_harappa_3" "12.0071"
[2,] "turkmen_yunusbayev_11" "16.7545"
[3,] "iranian_behar_19" "16.7703"
[4,] "tajik_yunusbayev_15" "17.5877"
[5,] "kalash_hgdp_23" "17.7843"
[6,] "pathan_hgdp_23" "18.0283"
[7,] "iranian_harappa_9" "18.0506"
[8,] "kurd_harappa_11" "19.4245"
[9,] "makrani_hgdp_25" "20.5878"
[10,] "balochi_hgdp_24" "21.0834"
[11,] "kurd_xing_24" "21.3623"
[12,] "burusho_hgdp_25" "21.7433"
[13,] "bhatia_harappa_2" "21.9036"
[14,] "kurd_yunusbayev_6" "22.3804"
[15,] "gujarati-muslim_harappa_3" "22.687"
[16,] "kashmiri_harappa_2" "22.9621"
[17,] "bene-israel-jew_behar_4" "23.1323"
[18,] "iraqi-arab_harappa_4" "23.6119"
[19,] "punjabi-jatt_harappa_8" "23.7947"
[20,] "sindhi_hgdp_24" "24.4917"
[21,] "kashmiri-pandit_reich_5" "24.6076"
[22,] "brahui_hgdp_25" "24.7421"
[23,] "haryana-jatt_harappa_5" "24.8739"
[24,] "punjabi-arain_xing_25" "25.2478"
[25,] "azeri_harappa_2" "25.3113"
[26,] "punjabi_harappa_10" "25.8293"
[27,] "turkish_harappa_4" "26"
[28,] "uzbekistan-jew_behar_2" "26.3174"
[29,] "punjabi-brahmin_harappa_2" "26.5994"
[30,] "stalskoe_xing_5" "26.6031"

[1,] "59.9% iranian_behar_19 + 40.1% sindhi_hgdp_24" "4.5994"
[2,] "42.9% bhatia_harappa_2 + 57.1% iranian_behar_19" "4.7957"
[3,] "57.4% bhatia_harappa_2 + 42.6% iraqi-mandaean_harappa_2" "5.004"
[4,] "60.8% iranian_behar_19 + 39.2% punjabi-arain_xing_25" "5.1374"
[5,] "52% iranian_behar_19 + 48% pathan_hgdp_23" "5.2039"
[6,] "42.5% iraqi-arab_harappa_4 + 57.5% kalash_hgdp_23" "5.214"
[7,] "58.8% bhatia_harappa_2 + 41.2% iranian-jew_behar_4" "5.2257"
[8,] "59.3% iranian_behar_19 + 40.7% punjabi-jatt_harappa_8" "5.3218"
[9,] "59.7% bhatia_harappa_2 + 40.3% iraq-jew_behar_10" "5.4172"
[10,] "37.5% iraqi-mandaean_harappa_2 + 62.5% pathan_hgdp_23" "5.4624"
[11,] "53.6% kurd_xing_24 + 46.4% sindhi_hgdp_24" "5.4981"
[12,] "52% bhatia_harappa_2 + 48% iraqi-arab_harappa_4" "5.5121"
[13,] "63.3% kalash_hgdp_23 + 36.7% palestinian_harappa_2" "5.6202"
[14,] "61.5% iranian_behar_19 + 38.5% punjabi_harappa_10" "5.6241"
[15,] "56.2% kurd_harappa_11 + 43.8% sindhi_hgdp_24" "5.6605"
[16,] "62.5% iranian_behar_19 + 37.5% singapore-indian-c_sgvp_10" "5.728"
[17,] "36.1% iranian-jew_behar_4 + 63.9% pathan_hgdp_23" "5.7675"
[18,] "74.7% kalash_hgdp_23 + 25.3% yemen-jew_behar_15" "5.8169"
[19,] "62.5% iranian_behar_19 + 37.5% kashmiri-pahari_harappa_2" "5.825"
[20,] "63.5% iranian_behar_19 + 36.5% punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa_2" "5.8313"
[21,] "54.9% bhatia_harappa_2 + 45.1% uzbekistan-jew_behar_2" "5.8358"
[22,] "51.7% iranian_behar_19 + 48.3% kalash_hgdp_23" "5.843"
[23,] "68.4% kalash_hgdp_23 + 31.6% palestinian_hgdp_46" "5.8619"
[24,] "51.9% sindhi_hgdp_24 + 48.1% uzbekistan-jew_behar_2" "5.87"
[25,] "64.5% kalash_hgdp_23 + 35.5% syrian_behar_16" "5.8705"
[26,] "62.3% iranian_behar_19 + 37.7% punjabi-brahmin_harappa_2" "5.8776"
[27,] "42.7% iraqi-arab_harappa_4 + 57.3% pathan_hgdp_23" "5.9153"
[28,] "35.2% iraq-jew_behar_10 + 64.8% pathan_hgdp_23" "5.9264"
[29,] "40% iranian_behar_19 + 60% pashtun_harappa_3" "5.9412"
[30,] "33.1% jordanian_behar_20 + 66.9% kalash_hgdp_23" "5.9449"

The mixed Oracle results are very suggestive. I wonder if this individual is an outlier for their part of Iran, or representative? Based on your prior knowledge, should we expect Iranians from this individual's region to be strongly South Asian shifted?

DMXX
12-20-2013, 06:09 AM
Thank you DMXX!

I have quite a few Iranian relatives at 23andMe. Interestingly, more Iranian matches than Pakistani matches. Perhaps this would apply to other Pashtuns as well? I'd love to see a fastIBD or ChromoPainter analysis of my raw-data, but I'm just too inept to try anything myself :biggrin1:.


Despite being from the far northwest and north of Iran ancestrally, my Oracle combinations regularly include Pashtuns and Tajiks. I don't think any of this is a coincidence. Given the great diversity in family histories across the region it probably isn't appropriate to extend the common pattern in both our results to any great degree, but it'd be safe to say quite a few other Pashtuns and Iranians will be similar. :)

For what it's worth, please find below the ChromoPainter population chunk data for the HGDP Pathans from the Harappa Project, together with Zack's comments. It appears that, outside of South-Central and South Asia, it is the Kurds and Iranians who have "contributed" the most to the Pashtun genepool.

http://www.harappadna.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/eurasia-pathan-chunkcounts.png



...Interestingly, the number of chunks donated to Pathans from Balochi, Brahui and Sindhi seems to be a bit more than from Punjabis. Again, Tajiks are the closest non South Asian group at #55 and #59, followed by Kurds at #62 and Iranians/Kurds cluster (Pop172) at #63.




I think you've hit the nail right on the head! From a cultural perspective, the Pashtun region is an eastern continuation of Greater Iran, so there might be some very strong and persistent genetic links at play. I think we could go so far as to say that Pashtuns and Iranic-speaking Iranians mutually share a very substantial proportion of their respective genetic ancestries. Although, being at the eastern edge of the Iranian plateau, we have quite a substantial South Asian affinity absent in currently sampled Iranian groups. And originating from the western portion of the plateau, most Iranians have quite a substantial Southwest Asian affinity. Still though, I find it very interesting that one of the factors differentiating Iranians from their western neighbors is a slightly heightened South Asian affinity.


I agree with your assessment. Generally speaking, it appears that component values frequently observed in the Near-East are as high in Iranians as those South Asian-specific ones among Pashtuns.

The slightly elevated South Asian component among Iranians is definitely something which separates "us" from other West Asian populations. I have previously demonstrated this using the ACD tool (http://vaedhya.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/introducing-acd-tool.html); you will note the Iranians and Kurds were more South Asian ("S Indian", "Baloch") than Armenians and Assyrians (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TI1V30XXDw4/UDDQk1Dj11I/AAAAAAAAAOk/_LZxYUxQgso/s1600/Example2.png).

Another somewhat related autosomal feature pushing Iranians towards Pashtuns is the frequency of South-Central Asian specific components. Iranians score quite a bit more Gedrosian/W. Central Asian than their immediate neighbours do.



Although, at Harappa Ancestry Project, there is an Iranian Bandari participant with some very distinctive results, HRP0355. This individual's Oracle results:

...

The mixed Oracle results are very suggestive. I wonder if this individual is an outlier for their part of Iran, or representative? Based on your prior knowledge, should we expect Iranians from this individual's region to be strongly South Asian shifted?

The shift towards South Asia should be expected given that, within Iran, the frequency of uniparental lines which are quintessentially South Asian (Y-DNA H, mtDNA M) increase the further east and south you travel. To what extent is another question. As the majority of Iranians are from further north of the Persian Gulf coastline, the ability to quantify how typical this individual's results are is non-existent.

I would venture to say their Single Population Sharing results are expected when one considers their Oracle results. The majority of this individual's ancestry is from the Iranian plateau with the rest consistently coming from around the Indus valley. As discussed above, Iranic-speaking Pakistani Pashtuns have quite a bit of South Asian ancestry in them. The overall population match would therefore very roughly be with Pakistani Pashtuns. Please note the relatively large genetic distance (GD) of 12, indicating it isn't a very "strong" overall fit.

Sein
12-20-2013, 06:55 AM
Thank you, very fascinating chunkcount data! One interesting/odd touch though, pop24 is composed of individuals who have mixed Indus Valley-Northwest European backgrounds?

The ACD tool is great! A really nice way to visualize population differences.

I anxiously look forward to greater sampling across the Iranian plateau, so much of Iran and Afghanistan lacks representation in genetic data-sets. We might see some very interesting heterogeneity and clinal variation.

Sein
12-26-2013, 03:14 AM
On a related note, a good friend of mine was running some "supervised" Admixture experiments on my 23andMe raw-data. What they found validates Geno 2.0's closest reference population choices, at least as far as I can see. The algorithm construes me as 49% Georgian, 47% Gujarati, and 4% Siberian (I might be switching the Georgian and Gujarati %, I'll check later). This is nicely congruent with Geno 2.0 putting me in between northern Caucasians, and northern Indians (but closer to northern Caucasians), as my 4% Siberian admixture would make North Caucasians a better match than Georgians in a broader context.

DMXX
12-26-2013, 07:39 AM
On a related note, a good friend of mine was running some "supervised" Admixture experiments on my 23andMe raw-data. What they found validates Geno 2.0's closest reference population choices, at least as far as I can see. The algorithm construes me as 49% Georgian, 47% Gujarati, and 4% Siberian (I might be switching the Georgian and Gujarati %, I'll check later). This is nicely congruent with Geno 2.0 putting me in between northern Caucasians, and northern Indians (but closer to northern Caucasians), as my 4% Siberian admixture would make North Caucasians a better match than Georgians in a broader context.

Gujaratis have quite a bit of West Eurasian admixture themselves. If the ADMIXTURE run was carried out and a South Indian ethnic group was used as a "forced" component, you'd probably end up with something like 70-80% Georgian/West Asian. I say that based on Pashtuns having around 20-30% "South Asian" in assorted autosomal runs.

Sein
12-26-2013, 07:45 AM
You're quite on the mark here, when he tried a "three-continent" model, I turned out 81% West Eurasian. Subtracting the 4% Siberian admixture I have, that would put me at 15% ASI. Since my West Eurasian ancestry is likely entirely West Asian, I guess this is equivalent to saying that I'm 81% West Asian. Although, when Dr. McDonald tried a chromosome painting assuming three reference populations, I turned out 91% "European". Individuals at 23andMe who share my position on the global PCA used to be around 94% "European", back when 23andMe had a three-population model. But haploblock approaches aren't really comparable to Admixture runs.

DMXX
12-26-2013, 10:26 AM
You're quite on the mark here,


What can I say, I've eyeballed enough results from our part of the world by now. :crazy:




when he tried a "three-continent" model, I turned out 81% West Eurasian. Subtracting the 4% Siberian admixture I have, that would put me at 15% ASI. Since my West Eurasian ancestry is likely entirely West Asian, I guess this is equivalent to saying that I'm 81% West Asian. Although, when Dr. McDonald tried a chromosome painting assuming three reference populations, I turned out 91% "European". Individuals at 23andMe who share my position on the global PCA used to be around 94% "European", back when 23andMe had a three-population model. But haploblock approaches aren't really comparable to Admixture runs.

If we consider the entire Caucasus as a part of West Asian, then that'd be especially true. If more southern populations are used exclusively, such as Armenians or any other group with negligible (<5%) of the North Euro component, you'd probably end up with something like 65-70% West Asian and 10-15% European. As you know, South-Central Asians generally carry more North Euro than folks from further west, although some Iranians and Kurds (e.g. StarDS9, Sheikh_Ubayd from ABF, NK19191 and myself) are closer to the typical Pashtun range depending on the test.

Under the old three-way system, 23andMe's "European" was essentially West Eurasian, although it probably included some ANI in the mix if you ended up with 94% European despite appearing to be 81% West Eurasian on Geno 2.0 and 82% through your friend's analysis.

DMXX
01-26-2014, 03:02 PM
A very interesting update on my Y-line from the Geno 2.0 SNP's. Very glad to see the anticipated pay-off to purchasing this kit play out.

Elsewhere online, Birko/Tomasso has very kindly tabulated all the Geno 2.0 results from Y-DNA R2's who transferred their data to FTDNA. Concerning my sample, he observed that I was negative for markers L781 and PF2631, which all other members had. Despite the small sample size, and considering the mixed nature of L295, he inferred this could mean my lineage is "very old" and might have split early on from other R2a's.

After viewing the tabulated data myself, it appears I am negative on four markers (not just two) which all other samples are positive for (L781, PF15, PF2600, PF2631). Furthermore, I do not have any positive mutations which single me out from the others.

The totality of this suggests that, at present when compared to nine other samples, I belong to an old divergent line of R2a-M124 separate from the others. The R2a* designation is therefore an appropriate one.

rock
01-27-2014, 05:30 AM
L781 PF15 are A1
PF2600 PF2631 are F
all F branch samples should have.you are re-mutation?

MfA
02-07-2014, 04:51 PM
Here are my results:
Southwest Asian=46%
Mediterranean=25%
Northern European=11%
Southeast Asian=11%
Northeast Asian=4%
Native American=2%
Can anyone guess my ethnicity?

I think we are distantly related with 0.08%(5.7cM) share at 23andMe, world is small lol :)

MfA
02-13-2014, 12:05 PM
I ran the segment we share in common with Sein on various calculators.. The results should be half identical with Sein since we only share a pair of the segment.. Dodecad and Harappa reports that it is Half Caucasus, Half Gedrosia + additional Siberian, While Eurogenes reports that it breaks down East med, East euro and again Siberian.. I also ran Oracles if it is available.

Globe13
16.65% Siberian
0.00% Amerindian
0.00% West_African
0.00% Palaeo_African
3.18% Southwest_Asian
0.00% East_Asian
0.00% Mediterranean
0.00% Australasian
0.00% Arctic
80.16% West_Asian
0.00% North_European
0.00% South_Asian
0.00% East_African

K12b
46.66% Gedrosia
11.41% Siberian
0.00% Northwest_African
0.00% Southeast_Asian
0.00% Atlantic_Med
0.00% North_European
0.00% South_Asian
0.00% East_African
0.00% Southwest_Asian
0.00% East_Asian
41.93% Caucasus
0.00% Sub_Saharan


[,1] [,2]
[1,] "Iranian_D" "25.3577"
[2,] "Iranians" "25.6491"
[3,] "Kurd_D" "26.2631"
[4,] "Kurds_Y" "27.3463"
[5,] "Turkmens_Y" "28.4978"
[6,] "Lezgins" "32.1033"
[7,] "Kumyks_Y" "34.268"
[8,] "Tajiks_Y" "35.3152"
[9,] "Uzbekistan_Jews" "35.3213"
[10,] "Chechens_Y" "36.2392"
[11,] "Turks" "37.0069"
[12,] "Azerbaijan_Jews" "37.5429"
[13,] "Armenians_15_Y" "37.657"
[14,] "Assyrian_D" "38.6023"
[15,] "Iranian_Jews" "38.8279"
[16,] "Armenian_D" "39.0548"
[17,] "Georgia_Jews" "39.2567"
[18,] "North_Ossetians_Y" "39.5615"
[19,] "Adygei" "39.7209"
[20,] "Turkish_D" "39.721"

[,1] [,2]
[1,] "46.8% Brahui + 53.2% Georgians" "15.8263"
[2,] "50.5% Balochi + 49.5% Georgians" "16.229"
[3,] "45.2% Brahui + 54.8% Abhkasians_Y" "16.2712"
[4,] "52.1% Makrani + 47.9% Georgians" "16.5772"
[5,] "48.9% Balochi + 51.1% Abhkasians_Y" "16.6757"
[6,] "50.4% Makrani + 49.6% Abhkasians_Y" "16.9801"
[7,] "41.8% Brahui + 58.2% North_Ossetians_Y" "20.2602"
[8,] "45.7% Balochi + 54.3% North_Ossetians_Y" "20.3999"
[9,] "47.4% Makrani + 52.6% North_Ossetians_Y" "20.4784"
[10,] "42.2% Brahui + 57.8% Balkars_Y" "20.5616"
[11,] "46.2% Balochi + 53.8% Balkars_Y" "20.6796"
[12,] "47.8% Makrani + 52.2% Balkars_Y" "20.7553"
[13,] "58.2% Adygei + 41.8% Brahui" "20.9431"
[14,] "54.2% Adygei + 45.8% Balochi" "21.0206"
[15,] "46.2% Balochi + 53.8% Armenians" "21.0384"
[16,] "52.5% Adygei + 47.5% Makrani" "21.0419"
[17,] "42.1% Brahui + 57.9% Armenians" "21.2313"
[18,] "47.8% Makrani + 52.2% Armenians" "21.4801"
[19,] "43.9% Makrani + 56.1% Chechens_Y" "22.0637"
[20,] "42.2% Balochi + 57.8% Chechens_Y" "22.1882"

HarappaWorld
0.00% S-Indian
44.65% Baloch
37.70% Caucasian
0.00% NE-Euro
0.00% SE-Asian
17.65% Siberian
0.00% NE-Asian
0.00% Papuan
0.00% American
0.00% Beringian
0.00% Mediterranean
0.00% SW-Asian
0.00% San
0.00% E-African
0.00% Pygmy
0.00% W-African


[,1] [,2]
[1,] "turkmen_yunusbayev_11" "25.7613"
[2,] "iranian_harappa_9" "25.7968"
[3,] "kurd_xing_24" "27.2671"
[4,] "iranian_behar_19" "27.4208"
[5,] "kurd_harappa_11" "27.7008"
[6,] "kurd_yunusbayev_6" "28.0668"
[7,] "tajik_yunusbayev_15" "28.2274"
[8,] "lezgin_behar_18" "29.6481"
[9,] "azeri_harappa_2" "30.2369"
[10,] "stalskoe_xing_5" "30.7544"
[11,] "kumyk_yunusbayev_14" "30.772"
[12,] "makrani_hgdp_25" "31.0978"
[13,] "pashtun_harappa_3" "31.346"
[14,] "urkarah_xing_18" "31.4584"
[15,] "kalash_hgdp_23" "31.8034"
[16,] "balochi_hgdp_24" "32.1981"
[17,] "turkish_harappa_4" "32.4082"
[18,] "chechen_yunusbayev_20" "33.317"
[19,] "brahui_hgdp_25" "33.9146"
[20,] "uzbekistan-jew_behar_2" "34.0454"

[,1] [,2]
[1,] "43.8% abhkasian_yunusbayev_20 + 56.2% brahui_hgdp_25" "19.2528"
[2,] "58% brahui_hgdp_25 + 42% georgian_behar_20" "19.4187"
[3,] "50.9% brahui_hgdp_25 + 49.1% north-ossetian_yunusbayev_15" "19.5707"
[4,] "40.3% abhkasian_yunusbayev_20 + 59.7% makrani_hgdp_25" "19.6001"
[5,] "38.6% georgian_behar_20 + 61.4% makrani_hgdp_25" "19.7755"
[6,] "54.3% makrani_hgdp_25 + 45.7% north-ossetian_yunusbayev_15" "19.7839"
[7,] "41.6% abhkasian_yunusbayev_20 + 58.4% balochi_hgdp_24" "19.8941"
[8,] "60.2% balochi_hgdp_24 + 39.8% georgian_behar_20" "20.0492"
[9,] "52.8% brahui_hgdp_25 + 47.2% georgian_harappa_4" "20.1758"
[10,] "48.1% adygei_hgdp_17 + 51.9% brahui_hgdp_25" "20.1786"
[11,] "53% balochi_hgdp_24 + 47% north-ossetian_yunusbayev_15" "20.221"
[12,] "48.4% balkar_yunusbayev_19 + 51.6% brahui_hgdp_25" "20.221"
[13,] "44.5% adygei_hgdp_17 + 55.5% makrani_hgdp_25" "20.3206"
[14,] "44.8% balkar_yunusbayev_19 + 55.2% makrani_hgdp_25" "20.3715"
[15,] "43.6% georgian_harappa_4 + 56.4% makrani_hgdp_25" "20.5248"
[16,] "55% balochi_hgdp_24 + 45% georgian_harappa_4" "20.6795"
[17,] "45.9% adygei_hgdp_17 + 54.1% balochi_hgdp_24" "20.799"
[18,] "46.2% balkar_yunusbayev_19 + 53.8% balochi_hgdp_24" "20.8541"
[19,] "45.8% brahui_hgdp_25 + 54.2% kumyk_yunusbayev_14" "20.9384"
[20,] "50.5% kumyk_yunusbayev_14 + 49.5% makrani_hgdp_25" "21.01"


EUtest
1.05% SOUTH_BALTIC
13.05% EAST_EURO
0.00% NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO
0.00% ATLANTIC
0.00% WEST_MED
42.60% EAST_MED
34.46% WEST_ASIAN
0.00% MIDDLE_EASTERN
0.00% SOUTH_ASIAN
0.00% EAST_AFRICAN
0.00% EAST_ASIAN
8.83% SIBERIAN
0.00% WEST_AFRICAN

K36
0.00% Amerindian
0.00% Arabian
51.03% Armenian
0.00% Basque
0.00% Central_African
0.00% Central_Euro
0.00% East_African
0.00% East_Asian
0.00% East_Balkan
0.00% East_Central_Asian
0.00% East_Central_Euro
0.00% East_Med
9.73% Eastern_Euro
0.00% Fennoscandian
0.00% French
0.00% Iberian
0.00% Indo-Chinese
0.00% Italian
0.00% Malayan
2.70% Near_Eastern
0.00% North_African
0.00% North_Atlantic
23.13% North_Caucasian
0.00% North_Sea
0.00% Northeast_African
0.00% Oceanian
0.00% Omotic
0.00% Pygmy
11.23% Siberian
0.00% South_Asian
0.00% South_Central_Asian
0.00% South_Chinese
0.00% Volga-Ural
0.85% West_African
1.33% West_Caucasian
0.00% West_Med

parasar
02-13-2014, 03:21 PM
A very interesting update on my Y-line from the Geno 2.0 SNP's. Very glad to see the anticipated pay-off to purchasing this kit play out.

Elsewhere online, Birko/Tomasso has very kindly tabulated all the Geno 2.0 results from Y-DNA R2's who transferred their data to FTDNA. Concerning my sample, he observed that I was negative for markers L781 and PF2631, which all other members had. Despite the small sample size, and considering the mixed nature of L295, he inferred this could mean my lineage is "very old" and might have split early on from other R2a's.

After viewing the tabulated data myself, it appears I am negative on four markers (not just two) which all other samples are positive for (L781, PF15, PF2600, PF2631). Furthermore, I do not have any positive mutations which single me out from the others.

The totality of this suggests that, at present when compared to nine other samples, I belong to an old divergent line of R2a-M124 separate from the others. The R2a* designation is therefore an appropriate one.


These may be no calls rather than negative:
L781 - P
PF15 - CT or up
PF2600 - F or up
PF2631 - F or up
http://www.yfull.com/tree/

Sein
02-13-2014, 10:11 PM
I ran the segment we share in common with Sein on various calculators.. The results should be half identical with Sein since we only share a pair of the segment.. Dodecad and Harappa reports that it is Half Caucasus, Half Gedrosia + additional Siberian, While Eurogenes reports that it breaks down East med, East euro and again Siberian.. I also ran Oracles if it is available.

Globe13
16.65% Siberian
0.00% Amerindian
0.00% West_African
0.00% Palaeo_African
3.18% Southwest_Asian
0.00% East_Asian
0.00% Mediterranean
0.00% Australasian
0.00% Arctic
80.16% West_Asian
0.00% North_European
0.00% South_Asian
0.00% East_African

K12b
46.66% Gedrosia
11.41% Siberian
0.00% Northwest_African
0.00% Southeast_Asian
0.00% Atlantic_Med
0.00% North_European
0.00% South_Asian
0.00% East_African
0.00% Southwest_Asian
0.00% East_Asian
41.93% Caucasus
0.00% Sub_Saharan


[,1] [,2]
[1,] "Iranian_D" "25.3577"
[2,] "Iranians" "25.6491"
[3,] "Kurd_D" "26.2631"
[4,] "Kurds_Y" "27.3463"
[5,] "Turkmens_Y" "28.4978"
[6,] "Lezgins" "32.1033"
[7,] "Kumyks_Y" "34.268"
[8,] "Tajiks_Y" "35.3152"
[9,] "Uzbekistan_Jews" "35.3213"
[10,] "Chechens_Y" "36.2392"
[11,] "Turks" "37.0069"
[12,] "Azerbaijan_Jews" "37.5429"
[13,] "Armenians_15_Y" "37.657"
[14,] "Assyrian_D" "38.6023"
[15,] "Iranian_Jews" "38.8279"
[16,] "Armenian_D" "39.0548"
[17,] "Georgia_Jews" "39.2567"
[18,] "North_Ossetians_Y" "39.5615"
[19,] "Adygei" "39.7209"
[20,] "Turkish_D" "39.721"

[,1] [,2]
[1,] "46.8% Brahui + 53.2% Georgians" "15.8263"
[2,] "50.5% Balochi + 49.5% Georgians" "16.229"
[3,] "45.2% Brahui + 54.8% Abhkasians_Y" "16.2712"
[4,] "52.1% Makrani + 47.9% Georgians" "16.5772"
[5,] "48.9% Balochi + 51.1% Abhkasians_Y" "16.6757"
[6,] "50.4% Makrani + 49.6% Abhkasians_Y" "16.9801"
[7,] "41.8% Brahui + 58.2% North_Ossetians_Y" "20.2602"
[8,] "45.7% Balochi + 54.3% North_Ossetians_Y" "20.3999"
[9,] "47.4% Makrani + 52.6% North_Ossetians_Y" "20.4784"
[10,] "42.2% Brahui + 57.8% Balkars_Y" "20.5616"
[11,] "46.2% Balochi + 53.8% Balkars_Y" "20.6796"
[12,] "47.8% Makrani + 52.2% Balkars_Y" "20.7553"
[13,] "58.2% Adygei + 41.8% Brahui" "20.9431"
[14,] "54.2% Adygei + 45.8% Balochi" "21.0206"
[15,] "46.2% Balochi + 53.8% Armenians" "21.0384"
[16,] "52.5% Adygei + 47.5% Makrani" "21.0419"
[17,] "42.1% Brahui + 57.9% Armenians" "21.2313"
[18,] "47.8% Makrani + 52.2% Armenians" "21.4801"
[19,] "43.9% Makrani + 56.1% Chechens_Y" "22.0637"
[20,] "42.2% Balochi + 57.8% Chechens_Y" "22.1882"

HarappaWorld
0.00% S-Indian
44.65% Baloch
37.70% Caucasian
0.00% NE-Euro
0.00% SE-Asian
17.65% Siberian
0.00% NE-Asian
0.00% Papuan
0.00% American
0.00% Beringian
0.00% Mediterranean
0.00% SW-Asian
0.00% San
0.00% E-African
0.00% Pygmy
0.00% W-African


[,1] [,2]
[1,] "turkmen_yunusbayev_11" "25.7613"
[2,] "iranian_harappa_9" "25.7968"
[3,] "kurd_xing_24" "27.2671"
[4,] "iranian_behar_19" "27.4208"
[5,] "kurd_harappa_11" "27.7008"
[6,] "kurd_yunusbayev_6" "28.0668"
[7,] "tajik_yunusbayev_15" "28.2274"
[8,] "lezgin_behar_18" "29.6481"
[9,] "azeri_harappa_2" "30.2369"
[10,] "stalskoe_xing_5" "30.7544"
[11,] "kumyk_yunusbayev_14" "30.772"
[12,] "makrani_hgdp_25" "31.0978"
[13,] "pashtun_harappa_3" "31.346"
[14,] "urkarah_xing_18" "31.4584"
[15,] "kalash_hgdp_23" "31.8034"
[16,] "balochi_hgdp_24" "32.1981"
[17,] "turkish_harappa_4" "32.4082"
[18,] "chechen_yunusbayev_20" "33.317"
[19,] "brahui_hgdp_25" "33.9146"
[20,] "uzbekistan-jew_behar_2" "34.0454"

[,1] [,2]
[1,] "43.8% abhkasian_yunusbayev_20 + 56.2% brahui_hgdp_25" "19.2528"
[2,] "58% brahui_hgdp_25 + 42% georgian_behar_20" "19.4187"
[3,] "50.9% brahui_hgdp_25 + 49.1% north-ossetian_yunusbayev_15" "19.5707"
[4,] "40.3% abhkasian_yunusbayev_20 + 59.7% makrani_hgdp_25" "19.6001"
[5,] "38.6% georgian_behar_20 + 61.4% makrani_hgdp_25" "19.7755"
[6,] "54.3% makrani_hgdp_25 + 45.7% north-ossetian_yunusbayev_15" "19.7839"
[7,] "41.6% abhkasian_yunusbayev_20 + 58.4% balochi_hgdp_24" "19.8941"
[8,] "60.2% balochi_hgdp_24 + 39.8% georgian_behar_20" "20.0492"
[9,] "52.8% brahui_hgdp_25 + 47.2% georgian_harappa_4" "20.1758"
[10,] "48.1% adygei_hgdp_17 + 51.9% brahui_hgdp_25" "20.1786"
[11,] "53% balochi_hgdp_24 + 47% north-ossetian_yunusbayev_15" "20.221"
[12,] "48.4% balkar_yunusbayev_19 + 51.6% brahui_hgdp_25" "20.221"
[13,] "44.5% adygei_hgdp_17 + 55.5% makrani_hgdp_25" "20.3206"
[14,] "44.8% balkar_yunusbayev_19 + 55.2% makrani_hgdp_25" "20.3715"
[15,] "43.6% georgian_harappa_4 + 56.4% makrani_hgdp_25" "20.5248"
[16,] "55% balochi_hgdp_24 + 45% georgian_harappa_4" "20.6795"
[17,] "45.9% adygei_hgdp_17 + 54.1% balochi_hgdp_24" "20.799"
[18,] "46.2% balkar_yunusbayev_19 + 53.8% balochi_hgdp_24" "20.8541"
[19,] "45.8% brahui_hgdp_25 + 54.2% kumyk_yunusbayev_14" "20.9384"
[20,] "50.5% kumyk_yunusbayev_14 + 49.5% makrani_hgdp_25" "21.01"


EUtest
1.05% SOUTH_BALTIC
13.05% EAST_EURO
0.00% NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO
0.00% ATLANTIC
0.00% WEST_MED
42.60% EAST_MED
34.46% WEST_ASIAN
0.00% MIDDLE_EASTERN
0.00% SOUTH_ASIAN
0.00% EAST_AFRICAN
0.00% EAST_ASIAN
8.83% SIBERIAN
0.00% WEST_AFRICAN

K36
0.00% Amerindian
0.00% Arabian
51.03% Armenian
0.00% Basque
0.00% Central_African
0.00% Central_Euro
0.00% East_African
0.00% East_Asian
0.00% East_Balkan
0.00% East_Central_Asian
0.00% East_Central_Euro
0.00% East_Med
9.73% Eastern_Euro
0.00% Fennoscandian
0.00% French
0.00% Iberian
0.00% Indo-Chinese
0.00% Italian
0.00% Malayan
2.70% Near_Eastern
0.00% North_African
0.00% North_Atlantic
23.13% North_Caucasian
0.00% North_Sea
0.00% Northeast_African
0.00% Oceanian
0.00% Omotic
0.00% Pygmy
11.23% Siberian
0.00% South_Asian
0.00% South_Central_Asian
0.00% South_Chinese
0.00% Volga-Ural
0.85% West_African
1.33% West_Caucasian
0.00% West_Med

Thanks MfA!

DMXX
03-02-2014, 02:03 AM
Checked my maternal matches via Geno 2.0 recently for the first time in months. Many other users have shared their backgrounds.

Some of these people do not belong to my particular branch of D(4). Differentiating between these matches is therefore quite hard, particularly as the majority of "relatives" haven't included their mtDNA designation. I can safely exclude the American matches, as D4 is not typically found there and there is no genealogical basis for any contacts with the New World (maternal ancestry is from Iran for at least 5 generations). Nonetheless, I've included the complete head-count below for posterity's sake.



11 - Japan (1x D4b2a2a, 1x D4a1)
6 - Korea (1x D4a1)
3 - Spain(?) (all of these indicated ambiguity between Spain and the Americas)
2 - Russia (Siberia)
2 - China
1 - India
1 - Nepal
1 - Turkey
==================
6 - Mexico
4 - Chile
3 - Puerto Rico
2 - Ecuador
Brazil
Columbia
Peru
Uraguay


Some more information specifically on D4j from the well-maintained Wikipedia page for mtDNA D (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_D_(mtDNA)). Additional information on any D4j5 discovered is also included.



Ethnicity/Nationality n/N
Japan (Hokkaido) 1/217
Japan (north Kyushu) 3/256
Japan (Tokai) 3/282
Japan (Tohoku) 4/336
Dolgan 2/154
Okinawa 12/326
South Korea 9/203
Yakut* (Yakutsk) 4/164
Yakut (Vilyuy river) 2/111
Evensk** 5/125
Chinese (Shenyang, Liaoning) 4/160
Yakut (north Yakutia)^ 7/148
Even^^ 4/105
Yukaghir' 1/22
Tharu (Nepal) 5/133


* The majority of D4j among Yakuts from Yakutsk is D4j5 (3/4)
** Some of the Evensk D4j's (2/5) are D4j5
^ Some of the northern Yakut D4j's (2/5) are D4j5
^^ The majority of D4j among Evens are D4j5 (3/4)
' The only D4j Yukaghir was D4j5

I am thankful to whomever was responsible for the succinct update of the mtDNA D page; it has allowed me for the first time in years to properly appraise the distribution of my subclade across Eurasia.

As the above shows, it is evident that mtDNA D4j5 has a patchy distribution centred around various Siberian ethnicities. These groups don't appear to be conjoined by language (Evens = Tungusic, Yakut = Turkic, Yukaghir). D4j5 does not seem to be found anywhere in East Asia proper.

The next step is to examine mtDNA from groups a little closer home ancestrally around the Caucasus and Central Asia, as well as among various Iranian ethnicities.

Ebizur
03-02-2014, 03:53 AM
I would note that the lack of reports of D4j5 from other ethnic groups of eastern Asia does not necessarily mean that this subclade does not exist in those populations, but rather that the relevant sites have not been tested (or at least not reported).

By the way, the HGDP includes four D4j individuals: two Lahus, a Pathan, and a Yakut. The two Lahus share a very recent common ancestor (probably within the last 500 years). The Pathan individual shares a common ancestor with the Yakut individual about 13,500 years ago, and these two share a common ancestor with the Lahu D4j individuals about 18,000 years ago. The Lahu, Pathan, and Yakut D4j individuals coalesce with a D4* individual from the HGDP Tu (Monguor) sample at around 21,000 years ago, so the most recent common ancestor of all D4j seems to have lived some time between approximately 18,000 and 21,000 years ago.

DMXX
03-02-2014, 11:59 AM
I would note that the lack of reports of D4j5 from other ethnic groups of eastern Asia does not necessarily mean that this subclade does not exist in those populations, but rather that the relevant sites have not been tested (or at least not reported).


Thank you for the input. Do you have any ideas concerning which unsampled East Asian ethnic groups may have D4j5, or was this comment concerning the differing testing protocols between the studies shown in the mtDNA D wiki page?

Ebizur
03-02-2014, 12:39 PM
Thank you for the input. Do you have any ideas concerning which unsampled East Asian ethnic groups may have D4j5, or was this comment concerning the differing testing protocols between the studies shown in the mtDNA D wiki page?
It's the latter, unfortunately. It seems to have been standard protocol for many years already to distinguish between D4 and D5 (or, in many cases, D5 and D(xD5)), but you may consider yourself lucky if you find a study in which the authors have been kind enough to distinguish D4j from other subclades of D4, let alone going further to distinguish D4j5.

DMXX
08-13-2014, 02:16 AM
Updating this thread regarding my broader Y-DNA results (STRs) rather than creating a new one.

After the recent publication of some new Pakistani Pashtun Y-DNA by Lee et al. (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2724-New-Pakistani-Pathan-Y-DNA-(2014)-STR-limitations), I decided to compare this data (along with several other R2a-M124 samples) against my results. Full table shown below in geographical order (west-to-east).

As usual, no clear-cut similarities. West Iranian sample I323 is arguably the best match (12/19). However, I noticed an unusual coupling between us two and one of the Pakistani Pashtuns (PK-158). If differences exist, they tend to only be 1-step mutations between the three of us. Unfortunately there's some tested marker mismatch (DYS426, DYS446). Excluding DYS389II, the three of us also share a 9 STR haplotype which seems to span across loci with various mutation rates.

I don't consider this authoritative by any means, but this similarity in the face of glaringly poor STR overlap between me, I323 and the other Haber et al. Iranians makes it abundantly clear Iranian R2a-M124 is of diverse origins. With respect to the Iranian-Pashtun haplotype, I am fairly confident it would extend to at least 11-12 STRs if the marker mismatch was addressed.



Population Sample Study [Year] STR overlap (total) DYS19 DYS389I DYS389II DYS390 DYS391 DYS392 DYS393 DYS385 DYS385b DYS426 DYS438 DYS439 DYS437 DYS448 DYS456 DYS458 DYS635 YGATAH4 DYS388 DYS446 DYS447 DYS449 DYS464 DYS464 overlap (out of 4) SNP confirmed?
Turkey [Central] G05 Gokcumen [2011] 10 (17) 14 13 28 23 10 10 14 13 18 11 10 15 20 15 16 25 21 Misprediction (Ypredictor >90% probability R2a)
Turkey [Central] G19 Gokcumen [2011] 10 (17) 14 13 28 23 10 10 14 13 18 11 10 15 20 15 16 25 21 Misprediction (Ypredictor >90% probability R2a)
Turkey [Central] M16 Gokcumen [2011] 9 (17) 14 14 29 23 10 10 12 13 18 9 11 15 19 15 16 22 20 Misprediction (Ypredictor >90% probability R2a)
Turkey [Central] M27 Gokcumen [2011] 6 (17) 14 15 31 23 10 9 12 13 18 9 11 15 19 15 17 22 20 Misprediction (Ypredictor >90% probability R2a)
Daghestan [Mt Jew] D001 Bertoncini [2012] 9 (17) 15 14 29 23 10 10 14 13 20 11 11 14 19 15 17 11 12
Daghestan [Mt Jew] D011 Bertoncini [2012] 10 (17) 14 14 29 23 10 10 14 13 20 11 11 14 19 15 17 11 12
Daghestan [Mt Jew] D014 Bertoncini [2012] 11 (17) 14 15 30 23 10 10 14 13 20 11 11 14 19 16 17 11 12
Iran [West] I323 Haber [2007] 12 (19) 14 14 30 23 10 10 14 13 19 12 11 10 17 18 15 17 25 11 12 P
Iran [West] I324 Haber [2007] 6 (19) 13 14 29 24 10 10 13 13 18 12 10 10 16 19 16 18 26 13 12 P
My Y-DNA [Azeri Iranian] Not Applicable Not Applicable 14 14 30 23 10 10 14 13 19 12 11 11 15 20 16 16 Notest 11 13 12 25 34 12,14,15,15 NA P
Iran [East] I122 Haber [2007] 7 (19) 14 12 29 23 11 10 14 11 19 12 11 10 16 19 15 17 27 12 12 P
Iran [East] I123 Haber [2007] 7 (19) 14 13 29 25 10 10 15 14 19 12 11 11 16 19 15 17 25 10 12 P
Iran [East] I124 Haber [2007] 7 (19) 16 14 31 22 10 11 13 15 20 12 11 10 15 20 16 17 24 13 12 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-002 Lee [2014] 14 (25) 15 13 30 23 10 10 14 11 21 11 11 16 19 16 16 25 12 12 12 27 34 12,14,15 3 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-011 Lee [2014] 12 (25) 15 14 30 23 11 10 14 13 18 11 11 16 19 15 16 27 12 13 13 27 31 14,15,16 2 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-047 Lee [2014] 13 (25) 14 14 29 23 10 10 14 11 21 11 11 16 20 15 18 24 12 12 12 27 30 12,14,15 3 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-052 Lee [2014] 13 (25) 15 13 29 23 10 10 14 13 20 11 11 16 19 16 17 24 11 12 12 26 32 12,14,15,16 3 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-057 Lee [2014] 14 (25) 15 14 30 23 10 10 14 13 13 11 11 16 19 16 16 26 12 12 13 28 33 12,14,15 3 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-085 Lee [2014] 11 (25) 14 14 31 23 10 10 13 13 17 11 12 16 19 16 18 25 11 12 12 28 31 13,15 1 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-099 Lee [2014] 8 (25) 15 13 29 24 10 11 13 15 20 11 11 16 19 14 17 24 11 12 12 26 30 12,14,15 3 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-108 Lee [2014] 10 (25) 14 13 29 23 10 10 13 12 19 11 11 17 19 15 18 25 12 12 11 27 32 12,14,15 3 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-111 Lee [2014] 9 (25) 15 12 28 22 10 10 14 13 17 11 10 16 19 16 18 24 12 12 12 27 30 12,15 2 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-125 Lee [2014] 10 (25) 15 13 29 24 10 10 14 12 18 11 9 16 19 15 17 24 11 13 12 27 31 12,14,15 3 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-155 Lee [2014] 11 (25) 14 13 29 23 10 10 14 14 18 11 11 16 17 19 16 24 12 12 13 26 32 12,14,15,16 3 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-158 Lee [2014] 14 (25) 14 14 31 23 10 10 14 13 19 11 10 15 19 15 18 25 12 13 12 24 31 12,13,15 2 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-185 Lee [2014] 12 (25) 14 14 30 23 10 10 14 13 15 12 10 16 19 15 17 25 12 12 12 27 31 12,14,15 3 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-195 Lee [2014] 12 (25) 14 14 31 23 10 10 15 13 15 11 12 16 18 15 17 24 12 12 12 25 32 12,14,15 3 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-205 Lee [2014] 13 (25) 15 14 30 23 10 10 14 13 18 11 11 15 19 15 18 25 12 12 11 25 31 11,13,14,15 2 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-206 Lee [2014] 13 (25) 14 14 29 23 11 10 14 13 20 10 11 16 20 15 18 24 11 12 11.2 25 32 12,14,15,16 3 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-233 Lee [2014] 14 (25) 15 13 30 23 10 10 14 11 21 11 11 16 19 16 16 25 12 12 12 26 34 12,14,15 3 P
Pakistan [Pathan] PK-259 Lee [2014] 10 (25) 14 13 29 23 10 10 14 11 19 11 10 16 19 15 18 25 12 12 12 28 32 13,14,15 2 P

redifflal
10-22-2014, 06:25 PM
Your results make sense to me. From the Iranians I have met in real life in the US, I was surprised to see that the Genographic's Iranian reference population scored so high in the SW Asian category (higher than North Indians, but that is another story). SW-Asian should be highest in South Indians, and decrease in a cline northwestwards through North and West India, Iran, Eastern Europe, Central Europe, etc. Seems like we have the same Y-DNA. I am R-PF7510 on Genographic, R-F813 on FTDNA (means I tested negative for L295). Not sure what these all mean though in terms of movement into subcontinent.