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Kaldo
05-25-2017, 01:33 AM
As in these:

1. Among Jews.

2. Including all groups, non-Jews like Palestinians.

Sikeliot
05-25-2017, 01:37 AM
This is my guess, and I may be wrong.

Very similar to/sharing most ancestry:
1. West Bank Palestinians, who descend from the remaining population of the area that was not sent into diaspora, who had first been converted to Christianity and then to Islam. By comparison, Gazans have more Egyptian, Arabian, and even African admixture.

2. Lebanese and most Syrians, who descend in large part from Canaanite tribes who were sister tribes to the Hebrews.

3. Mizrahi Jews, though Iraqi Jews have absorbed some Assyrian and other Mesopotamian ancestry also.


Sharing significant ancestry with them:
4. Cypriots, who are related closely to Levantines.

5. To a lesser extent: Sephardim, Ashkenazim, Maltese, Sicilians, southern Italians, and Cretans in roughly this order from greatest to least, all of whom have significant recent Levantine ancestry that would have been similar to that of the original Jews.

fished
05-25-2017, 02:04 AM
I think Samaritans are almost certainly the closest.

Targum
05-25-2017, 02:16 AM
I think Samaritans are almost certainly the closest.
Samaritans are hybrids of the Mesopotamians brought in by the Assyrians and the remnant Northern Kingdom Israelites. Palestinians other than Christians hav high recent SSA which makes modern MainstreamJews (AJ,SJ,YJ) the second nearer match to our ancestors, all 3 groups with their unique historical admixtures (Italian Greek and Himyarite Arabian).the closest match are Mizrahhi Jews who have less SSA than Western Jews btw; and the "purest" Mizrahhim are the Bavlim(IqJ).with all due respect thegenetic evidence must be viewed in conjunction with preservation of Hebrew Language Classic Hebrew Literature corpus and the voluminous oral tradition, which only The Jews have preserved. The Arabs invaded in the 7th century. No one says the Palestinians are not long term residents, but to suggest that the Jews are less Jewish than the Arabs is a Jew-hatred driven pro-Palestinian agenda, and not a scientific or historically cogent argument. There is no evidence, I repeat no evidence, that Jews became Arabs en masse. The genetic similarities are ancient and like the Jews' affinities with Druze, Assyrians,Syrians, Anatolian Turks and people of the northern Levant. There are of course isolated crypto-Jewish Palis(Yatta etc) with actual Jewish cultural practices, but no evidence Jews abandoned their culture (ironic since Jews everywhere retained astonishingly unified language/culture) and became Arabs. people who espouse such beliefs (Black "Hebrew Israelites" and White Supremacist "Israelites") have an agenda to delegitimize jews, as do proponents of the debunked Khazar hypothesis. Jews are from Judea, and related peoples are non-Jewish related peoples.

King
05-25-2017, 06:52 AM
if youre going to try to say samaritans are a hybrid group then you need to remember that western jews are more of a hybrid population than samaritans can dream to be. samaritans (that dont have recent admixture) have the least amount of ane in the middle east after arabians (and maybe copts). so this idea that samaritans are genetically a hybrid southern levantine and mesoptamian population is something i dont buy at this point.

and to answer the threads question, the answer is easy, its obviously samaritans.

kingjohn
05-25-2017, 06:54 AM
you nail it :)
even Ashkenazim and Sephardi have huge Levant admixture
in the punt king global k13
i have 2 populations fit
64% Lebanese Christians+ 36% french = so the Levant elment is there big time

it could be that Lebanese Christians are the closest thing to how Hebrews were before they acquired there non -Jewish admixture be there at europe
or Mesopotamia

totally agree with you that it is driven by other forces{ anti-Semites if we look at Syria there is a genocide there for real but people always go to the Palestinian conflict it is ridiculous

kingjohn
05-25-2017, 09:37 AM
i would go on lebanese christians not samaritans
a wierd thing about them that they don't have e1b1b1
except for ther priest line who is E-V22..
while all the jewish diaspora group have { aschenazi , sefhardi , and mizrachi {iraqi and irani jews}
and some of the palestinians indid came in the 7th centeruy from saudi arabia
so lebanese christians are probably the closest thing to how hebrews were

kikkk
05-25-2017, 09:57 AM
Are there IBD segments shared between modern Jews and ,respectively, Samaritans & Palestinians?

Kaldo
05-25-2017, 10:22 AM
Samaritans are hybrids of the Mesopotamians brought in by the Assyrians and the remnant Northern Kingdom Israelites. Palestinians other than Christians hav high recent SSA which makes modern MainstreamJews (AJ,SJ,YJ) the second nearer match to our ancestors, all 3 groups with their unique historical admixtures (Italian Greek and Himyarite Arabian).the closest match are Mizrahhi Jews who have less SSA than Western Jews btw; and the "purest" Mizrahhim are the Bavlim(IqJ).with all due respect thegenetic evidence must be viewed in conjunction with preservation of Hebrew Language Classic Hebrew Literature corpus and the voluminous oral tradition, which only The Jews have preserved. The Arabs invaded in the 7th century. No one says the Palestinians are not long term residents, but to suggest that the Jews are less Jewish than the Arabs is a Jew-hatred driven pro-Palestinian agenda, and not a scientific or historically cogent argument. There is no evidence, I repeat no evidence, that Jews became Arabs en masse. The genetic similarities are ancient and like the Jews' affinities with Druze, Assyrians,Syrians, Anatolian Turks and people of the northern Levant. There are of course isolated crypto-Jewish Palis(Yatta etc) with actual Jewish cultural practices, but no evidence Jews abandoned their culture (ironic since Jews everywhere retained astonishingly unified language/culture) and became Arabs. people who espouse such beliefs (Black "Hebrew Israelites" and White Supremacist "Israelites") have an agenda to delegitimize jews, as do proponents of the debunked Khazar hypothesis. Jews are from Judea, and related peoples are non-Jewish related peoples.

Don't Ashkenazi have lots of European blood though?

And there's this chart on Anthroscape that was from a paper on the first farmers:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/6066102/1/

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=3141919&t=8102304

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3803/33016272762_2f3e139a15_b.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--UGAJM8v3cA/V2SpZ5Hk9SI/AAAAAAAAFB0/awLxMQZ_COMWVlzy2SFKMH939tV1cEkVwCKgB/s1600/Hey2.png

kingjohn
05-25-2017, 10:27 AM
Are there IBD segments shared between modern Jews and ,respectively, Samaritans & Palestinians?

no
but we do have with poles and ukranians
but this is expected as jews were in europe 2000 years seperated from the levant poulations...
some syrian jews have ibd with syrian muslems though but not a lot few segments ...

p.s
but lest remember that ibd reflect recent shared ancesors
not ancient ancestery ....

Agamemnon
05-25-2017, 10:39 AM
3. Mizrahi Jews, though Iraqi Jews have absorbed some Assyrian and other Mesopotamian ancestry also.

It's the other way around, Mizrahi Jews are largely of Mesopotamian origin with some Levantine/Samaritan-like ancestry.


Sharing significant ancestry with them:
4. Cypriots, who are related closely to Levantines.

I used to think Cypriots were the closest to the pre-exilic Jews, mainly because they're an insular population... Now, not so much. I think they look that way mainly because they're similar to Neolithic, Chalcolithic and BA Anatolians with some Greek admixture, and since much of the Neolithic and Chalcolithic admixture is very similar to Levant_Neolithic that gives the impression they're by and large a Levantine population. I could be wrong though, I mean they do look like Anatolia_Neolithic-shifted Lebanese after all.


I think Samaritans are almost certainly the closest.

Yes, they most certainly are IMO. Lebanese Christians are a close second I'd say.


Samaritans are hybrids of the Mesopotamians brought in by the Assyrians and the remnant Northern Kingdom Israelites.

I disagree on that, Samaritans look pretty similar to the Jordan_EBA samples and 3DRIF-26 (the "Roman Brit"). Here's a PCA where you can see how they plot compared to the latter:

http://pichoster.net/images/2017/05/25/04847bc24899d852cc052b1eaaca2b45.png

They're by far the best proxy I've seen when it comes to simulating the Judean ancestry of Western Jews, who consistently end up being over 50% Samaritan. Also, Samaritan Hebrew is basically what Hebrew would've sounded like some 2,000 years ago, minus the begadkephat spirantisation, that easily makes it the closest variety to Classical Hebrew (at least phonologically-speaking).


Are there IBD segments shared between modern Jews and ,respectively, Samaritans & Palestinians?

My father and I share several IBD segments with non-admixed Samaritans (especially from the Tsedaka and Marhiv families). We share no segments with contemporary Levantines though.


Don't Ashkenazi have lots of European blood though?

Ashkenazi Jews seem to be ~57% Judean on average, with ~30% Italian admixture and ~10% Eastern European (the latter varies a lot and can disappear in some individuals, or even depending on the fit). For example, this is what I get for the Ashkenazi reference using K7:

[1] "distance%=0.3129 / distance=0.003129"

Ashkenazi_Jew:average

Samaritan 52.70
Italian_Bergamo:average 31.55
Lithuanian:average 8.35
Avar:average 7.40

The boldened populations simulate Judean admixture, Avar disappears if we use Druze instead of Samaritan:

[1] "distance%=0.3732 / distance=0.003732"

Ashkenazi_Jew:average

Druze:average 61
Italian_Bergamo:average 39

Notice how the genetic distance rises, Samaritans are a better proxy. Also notice how the Eastern European admixture vanishes, again this can depend on the fit.

kingjohn
05-25-2017, 11:18 AM
nice k7
i see bergamo there { roman dna maybe ?}
the lithaunian is logic
davidski had aschenazi as samaritans and 30% or above tuscan
with 10% estonian poles.
thanks

Celt_??
05-25-2017, 11:20 AM
[QUOTE=Kaldo: [/QUOTE]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3803/33016272762_2f3e139a15_b.jpg

So no one has commented on Kaldo's first graph, Extended Data Figure 1, which appears to show proximity between some living Jews and Sicilian & Maltese folks. I guess that is because the DNA is from living populations and not ancient?

Kaldo
05-25-2017, 11:48 AM
The other graph apparently had ancient samples with their closest modern populations behind them. The Palestinian sample was behind the Bronze Age Levant one. For what it's worth, the North African Jew sample was closest to the Neolithic Levant one.

kingjohn
05-25-2017, 12:20 PM
Using the K7 spreadsheet and nMonte, here's a model for Ashkenazi Jews with some of the new EGDP populations as references, including Avars from the North Caucasus and Arabs from Israel. The Arabs do help to improve the fit, but they're not as important as Samaritans and Tuscans.


Ashkenazi

Anatolia_ChL 7.9
Arab_Israel_1 15.65
Avar 0.6
Bashkir 0.05
Cossack 0
Italian_Tuscan 30.45
Polish 11.75
Samaritan 33.6
Uygur 0

distance%=0.2874 / distance=0.002874

http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.il/2016/09/estonian-biocentre-human-genome.html

Kanenas
05-25-2017, 12:41 PM
This is my guess, and I may be wrong.

Very similar to/sharing most ancestry:
1. West Bank Palestinians, who descend from the remaining population of the area that was not sent into diaspora, who had first been converted to Christianity and then to Islam. By comparison, Gazans have more Egyptian, Arabian, and even African admixture.

2. Lebanese and most Syrians, who descend in large part from Canaanite tribes who were sister tribes to the Hebrews.

3. Mizrahi Jews, though Iraqi Jews have absorbed some Assyrian and other Mesopotamian ancestry also.


Sharing significant ancestry with them:
4. Cypriots, who are related closely to Levantines.

5. To a lesser extent: Sephardim, Ashkenazim, Maltese, Sicilians, southern Italians, and Cretans in roughly this order from greatest to least, all of whom have significant recent Levantine ancestry that would have been similar to that of the original Jews.

Southern Italians, Cretans, Sicilians and Cypriots don't have 'significant', 'recent' Levantine admixture.

There is that for Spartans (Some would think that the story is made up I am not sure)
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/12310/how-are-spartans-the-son-of-abraham

We have also the myths about Cadmus and Danaus etc and now we know that Greek Peloponnese Neolithic was a little more Levant-shifted than Anatolian Neolithic.

Agamemnon
05-25-2017, 12:43 PM
There is that for Spartans (Some would think that the story is made up I am not sure)
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/12310/how-are-spartans-the-son-of-abraham

King Areus' claim sounds more like diplomatic language than anything else.

dnoone
05-25-2017, 12:56 PM
5. To a lesser extent: Sephardim, Ashkenazim, Maltese, Sicilians, southern Italians, and Cretans in roughly this order from greatest to least, all of whom have significant recent Levantine ancestry that would have been similar to that of the original Jews.
What makes you think there is Levantine ancestry among Maltese and Sicilians etc? Where is evidence for this?

Kanenas
05-25-2017, 01:02 PM
King Areus' claim sounds more like diplomatic language than anything else.

If it isn't made up by the authors of Book of Maccabees or Josephus they could have really believed that.

Kaldo
05-25-2017, 01:12 PM
There's also these articles by Maju:

http://leherensuge.blogspot.com.es/2010/06/jews-are-phoenicians-palestinians-are.html?m=1

http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2012/08/ample-analysis-of-genetics-of-european.html

What do you all make of them?


What makes you think there is Levantine ancestry among Maltese and Sicilians etc? Where is evidence for this?

The graph I posted has Ashkenazi Jews closest to Southern Italians of all Europeans.

Agamemnon
05-25-2017, 02:05 PM
There's also these articles by Maju:

http://leherensuge.blogspot.com.es/2010/06/jews-are-phoenicians-palestinians-are.html?m=1

http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2012/08/ample-analysis-of-genetics-of-european.html

What do you all make of them?

Maju makes little to no sense, as on most issues.

Kaldo
05-25-2017, 02:12 PM
Palestinians aren't the closest then?

Agamemnon
05-25-2017, 02:13 PM
What makes you think there is Levantine ancestry among Maltese and Sicilians etc? Where is evidence for this?

The fact that they basically cluster with Western Jews suggests that they too have a lot of Levantine ancestry, if not Levantine then at least broadly SW Asian ancestry. This is also quite clear looking at the uniparental markers found in Sicily, Malta and Southern Italy.

Agamemnon
05-25-2017, 02:16 PM
Palestinians aren't the closest then?

Closest to whom? Samaritans? That would be Lebanese Christians and Palestinian Christians ("Israeli Arab").

Kaldo
05-25-2017, 02:37 PM
I meant closest to Hebrews.

If you had to rank all Jews and possibly linked non-Jews like Druze or Assyrians by blood connection to the Biblical Jews how do you do it?

kingjohn
05-25-2017, 02:52 PM
The fact that they basically cluster with Western Jews suggests that they too have a lot of Levantine ancestry, if not Levantine then at least broadly SW Asian ancestry. This is also quite clear looking at the uniparental markers found in Sicily, Malta and Southern Italy.

basicly what siceliot shows in the last 2-3 years

and get more force to it in the last sicilian/aegean islands paper :)

Kaldo
05-25-2017, 02:54 PM
Have a link to that paper?

kikkk
05-25-2017, 02:56 PM
I think that if Christian Palestinians were kin to the Ancient Hebrews, one should expect them sharing IBD segments with Samaritans, which seems not be the case, and instead Samaritans seem to share IBD segments with Modern Jews.
Supposedly, they (Druzes&Christian Palestinians) may be descended from Ancient Arameans rather than Ancient Hebrews??

kingjohn
05-25-2017, 03:01 PM
Have a link to that paper?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-01802-4

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/48069-New-paper-on-Sicily-and-Southern-Italy-(Sarno-et-al-2017)

http://i64.tinypic.com/2nk1lj6.jpg
can you see the red near eastern admixture ? :)

Agamemnon
05-25-2017, 03:12 PM
When you guys say "Hebrews", you must keep in mind that we have no population that fits the bill in the historical record, not even the famous Habiru (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habiru#Habiru_and_the_biblical_Hebrews). What you're really referring to are the Late Bronze Age Proto-Israelites and their Iron Age descendants (Israelites and Judeans), which were Hebrew-speaking populations. Either way, the closest to these would be the Samaritans, then the Lebanese & Palestinian Christians.

kikkk, I recall seeing some Palestinian Christians who share IBD segments with Samaritans.

parasar
05-25-2017, 03:39 PM
Weren't the Biblical Jews migrants to the region of Israel from further east - Ur - or perhaps even from Persia?
If so the closest to them would be perhaps descendants of Sumerians/Kassites living in marshes/lands of S Iraq and SW Iran.

Kaldo
05-25-2017, 03:55 PM
Don't leave out the Assyrians.

kingjohn
05-25-2017, 04:23 PM
the hebrews were probably from local cannanite stock

Agamemnon
05-25-2017, 04:29 PM
Weren't the Biblical Jews migrants to the region of Israel from further east - Ur - or perhaps even from Persia?
If so the closest to them would be perhaps descendants of Sumerians/Kassites living in marshes/lands of S Iraq and SW Iran.

The Israelites essentially were a Canaanite population, and really weren't that different from the other Canaanite populations (Phoenicians, Moabites, Ammonites, etc), at best a tentative link with the Arameans (Abraham is called a "wandering Aramean" in Deuteronomy/Devarim), the Amorites and other NW Semitic peoples (the Hyksos and the inhabitants of Ugarit) can be made. Otherwise, I wouldn't take the Biblical narrative too literally.


Don't leave out the Assyrians.

Why so? They're a quintessentially Mesopotamian population.


the hebrews were probably from local cannanite stock

Not "probably", we know they were Canaanites.

kingjohn
05-25-2017, 04:36 PM
what is the point of this thread to prove jews don't have a right
to be in israel but the palestinians do
even if jewish diaspora groups autosomally are not a copy of the ancient hebrews so
what we still have our bible our tradition our culture
and nothing in the world couldn't expell us from our land
not anti semites we are strong now wer have a army we will defend ourself against every enemy who seek to destroy us .

Awale
05-25-2017, 04:38 PM
(Phoenicians, Moabites, Ammonites, etc)

Weren't Phoenician and Hebrew barely even distinct languages? More like dialects of the same Canaanite language, from how you used to put it.

Agamemnon
05-25-2017, 04:39 PM
what is the point of this thread to prove jews don't have a right
to be in israel but the palestinians do

I also suspect this is the point of the thread.

Agamemnon
05-25-2017, 04:47 PM
Weren't Phoenician and Hebrew barely even distinct languages? More like dialects of the same Canaanite language, from how you used to put it.

Yup, they're mutually intelligible, it could be compared to a dialect continuum. On one end you have Moabite and Edomite (which are so close to Hebrew that many linguists label them "Hebraic dialects"), then you have the southern/Judean dialect of Hebrew (Biblical and Mishnaic Hebrew are forms of Judean Hebrew) which is the most conservative form of Hebrew, then you have the northern/Israelite dialect (which yielded Samaritan & Galilean Hebrew) which is basically half-way between Judean Hebrew and coastal Phoenician dialects, finally you have different Phoenician dialects (which is what the Philistines ended up speaking) with Byblian being the most archaic and divergent form (though still mutually intelligible with Hebrew). So you could consider Canaanite to be a single language really, Hebrew & Phoenician are called different languages for non-linguistic reasons (relating to literature, history and politics).

parasar
05-25-2017, 05:09 PM
Don't leave out the Assyrians.

Modern or historical?

The historical old Assyrians are definitely possible, as are the Mitanni.

The Mitanni had for some time conquered the older Assyrians which I believe has come down as the story of the Medes' conquest of the later Assyrians (Medes under Cyaxares who captured Nineveh and subdued the Assyrians). There is no evidence of the Median empire in the archaeological layers of the era in which they are supposed to have existed. I think that it was long gone as it was from the Mitanni period. The later Assyrians I don't believe were ever conquered by the Medes as per the evidence from later Assyrian records.

The same confusion may have lead to Arphaxad being placed in a later Median time-frame in the Bible as well as in a pre-Abrahamic time-frame.
Arphaxad who reigned over the Medes
and
"Arphaxad named the Arphaxadites, who are now called Chaldeans ... the son of Arphaxad; and his son was Heber, from whom they originally called the Jews Hebrews."
http://biblehub.com/library/josephus/the_antiquities_of_the_jews/chapter_6_how_every_nation.htm

The Mitanni/Medes are to located in NW Persia from which they moved both south and west. While they appear in written records only in the 15th century BC, there is no reason to believe that they instantly sprung up.

parasar
05-25-2017, 05:39 PM
... Abraham is called a "wandering Aramean" in Deuteronomy/Devarim ...

That is interesting. Is it possible that in Abraham's time-frame the Arameans were the same as the Mitanni?
After all Aram-naharaim (Aram of the two rivers ie northern Mesopotamia, and Kushan Rishathayim king of Aram-naharaim) is equated to the kingdom of the Mitanni who are referred to as such (nhrn) by the Egyptians.

kingjohn
05-25-2017, 06:19 PM
I also suspect this is the point of the thread.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/8102304/1/ :crazy:

Agamemnon
05-25-2017, 06:32 PM
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/8102304/1/ :crazy:

Yeah, pretty much what I expected. And the answer to that question is no, Palestinians are not the closest to the ancient Israelites, let alone to the Jordan_EBA samples.


That is interesting. Is it possible that in Abraham's time-frame the Arameans were the same as the Mitanni?
After all Aram-naharaim (Aram of the two rivers ie northern Mesopotamia, and Kushan Rishathayim king of Aram-naharaim) is equated to the kingdom of the Mitanni who are referred to as such (nhrn) by the Egyptians.

Abraham's historicity is questionable. Arameans are, like the Israelites, a product of the LBA collapse. So invoking the Mitanni is anachronistic to say the least.

parasar
05-25-2017, 07:05 PM
...


Abraham's historicity is questionable. Arameans are, like the Israelites, a product of the LBA collapse. So invoking the Mitanni is anachronistic to say the least.

Perhaps.
But there were many myrn (maryannu) present in the south Syria/Israel/Jordan zone as attested in Egyptian records.
https://books.google.com/books?id=DoyTDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA180

Agamemnon
05-25-2017, 07:08 PM
Perhaps.
But there were many myrn (maryannu) present in the south Syria/Israel/Jordan zone as attested in Egyptian records.
https://books.google.com/books?id=DoyTDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA180

True, but I don't see how this is relevant to the subject at hand. The R1a Levites are likely to be descended from the Maryannu BTW.

fished
05-25-2017, 08:09 PM
Southern Italians, Cretans, Sicilians and Cypriots don't have 'significant', 'recent' Levantine admixture.

There is that for Spartans (Some would think that the story is made up I am not sure)
https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/12310/how-are-spartans-the-son-of-abraham

We have also the myths about Cadmus and Danaus etc and now we know that Greek Peloponnese Neolithic was a little more Levant-shifted than Anatolian Neolithic.

If South Italians and Greek islanders don't have Levantine admixture, than neither do Western Jews. And of course we know that they do.

It has nothing to do with old myths and legends, just solid genetic evidence. I know many people would prefer to live in a world where there's been a huge wall between Southern Europe and West Asia since the Neolithic, but that is not the world we live in.

parasar
05-25-2017, 08:52 PM
If South Italians and Greek islanders don't have Levantine admixture, than neither do Western Jews. And of course we know that they do.

...

Do we know that they are not the original Levantines?
It is possible that southern Europeans are closest to Levantines of old.
"DNA most resembled sequences from southern Europeans, including Sardinians, Italians and people from the Basque region ...
in the thousands of years since they ... left the region, it has experienced several waves of immigration. These waves have had a significant effect on the genes of people living in the Middle East today, and means southern Europeans are much closer to the original inhabitants of the Levant than modern-day Middle Easterners."
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24988-humanitys-forgotten-return-to-africa-revealed-in-dna/

Now we are getting some confirmation from ancient DNA. Southern Greeks were basal to Balkan, N Greek, and Anatolian farmers.
"early farmers from southern Greece are not descended from the Neolithic population of northwestern Anatolia that was ancestral to all other European farmers ...
in a direction opposite from WHG ... One possibility ... populations in Greece migrated from the Levant ..."
http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/05/21/135616.full.pdf

"shared Mediterranean genetic continuity, extending from Sicily to Cyprus, where Southern Italian populations appear genetically closer to Greek-speaking islands than to continental Greece."
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-01802-4?WT.feed_name=subjects_genetics

Sikeliot
05-25-2017, 09:38 PM
What makes you think there is Levantine ancestry among Maltese and Sicilians etc? Where is evidence for this?

Genetic proximity to Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews, and y-dna evidence especially around Palermo.

Anyhow, the closest non-Jews to ancient Hebrews would definitely be modern Lebanese, more so the Christians and Druze. Lebanese Muslims not only have more Arabian/African affinity, but also some Norman and West European.

Kanenas
05-25-2017, 10:56 PM
If South Italians and Greek islanders don't have Levantine admixture, than neither do Western Jews. And of course we know that they do.

It has nothing to do with old myths and legends, just solid genetic evidence. I know many people would prefer to live in a world where there's been a huge wall between Southern Europe and West Asia since the Neolithic, but that is not the world we live in.

Reread what I wrote. No 'significant', 'recent' Levantine admixture.
What is the historical event that caused 'significant' 'recent' Levantine admixture? Where's the evidence?

parasar
05-26-2017, 02:03 AM
... The R1a Levites are likely to be descended from the Maryannu BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZjbp_LepPM&feature=youtu.be&t=35m37s
Ah let's see what we get from Megiddo.
"defeat of the coalition of Syrian maryannu at the Battle of Megiddo"
https://books.google.com/books?id=khR0apPid8gC&pg=PA350

Sikeliot
05-26-2017, 03:03 AM
It is also important to note Mizrahi Jews are also significantly Mesopotamian (think northern Iraqis and Assyrians) and not just Levantine.

Kaldo
05-26-2017, 10:01 AM
Would the Israelites have been more like Mespotamians/Iraqis then?