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Maximilian
05-30-2017, 09:05 PM
Hello dear Community,

I am interested in genetical leftovers of the Huns, which was a central asian people. They spoke a turkic language, as far as I know. After the death of Attila the Huns splitted all over Eastern Europe and the Caucasus Region. Some of them were settled in the so-called "Dobruja"-Region, which is in Romania and Bulgaria today. Below the Volga settled the "Hunno-Bulgarians", they were called the descendants of the Huns.

Are there any genetical projects about the Huns? What is their assumed Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Gandhara
05-30-2017, 10:07 PM
Hello dear Community,

I am interested in genetical leftovers of the Huns, which was a central asian people. They spoke a turkic language, as far as I know. After the death of Attila the Huns splitted all over Eastern Europe and the Caucasus Region. Some of them were settled in the so-called "Dobruja"-Region, which is in Romania and Bulgaria today. Below the Volga settled the "Hunno-Bulgarians", they were called the descendants of the Huns.

Are there any genetical projects about the Huns? What is their assumed Y-DNA Haplogroup?

How did they manage to get Hun DNA? did they found a body of an ancient hun?

JohnHowellsTyrfro
05-30-2017, 11:26 PM
Hello dear Community,

I am interested in genetical leftovers of the Huns, which was a central asian people. They spoke a turkic language, as far as I know. After the death of Attila the Huns splitted all over Eastern Europe and the Caucasus Region. Some of them were settled in the so-called "Dobruja"-Region, which is in Romania and Bulgaria today. Below the Volga settled the "Hunno-Bulgarians", they were called the descendants of the Huns.

Are there any genetical projects about the Huns? What is their assumed Y-DNA Haplogroup?

I have raised this before mainly to try to find answers to regional percentages I get fairly consistently, Steppe/Turkic/ West Asian/ NW Pakistan region/Native American etc.. The Huns were in NW Pakistan region as well I understand. It hasn't been met with a lot of credibility so far, no-one wants to be descended from the Huns apparently. :)
However, here is an article on the subject. I'm not saying it is accurate, but then again, we don't know everything. :) John

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiz7L2F4ZjUAhVDIsAKHTKgATEQFggoMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Foriginhunters.blogspot.com%2F2012 %2F07%2Fattila-native-americans-and-dna-hunny.html&usg=AFQjCNGRc7_LjSv9PIVKIb_nCEKpG5QoSA&sig2=p_sm4W0ulv9mRbBrSe-yLw

George
05-30-2017, 11:50 PM
I have raised this before mainly to try to find answers to regional percentages I get fairly consistently, Steppe/Turkic/ West Asian/ NW Pakistan region/Native American etc.. The Huns were in NW Pakistan region as well I understand. It hasn't been met with a lot of credibility so far, no-one wants to be descended from the Huns apparently. :)
However, here is an article on the subject. I'm not saying it is accurate, but then again, we don't know everything. :) John

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiz7L2F4ZjUAhVDIsAKHTKgATEQFggoMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Foriginhunters.blogspot.com%2F2012 %2F07%2Fattila-native-americans-and-dna-hunny.html&usg=AFQjCNGRc7_LjSv9PIVKIb_nCEKpG5QoSA&sig2=p_sm4W0ulv9mRbBrSe-yLw

The Huns were not the only "Asiatic" population with an empire centered "east of the Rhine and north of the Danube". Where they lasted
for about 80 years. Before the Magyars (but are there any Q's left among them?) there were also the Avars, who were lords there three times longer than the Huns. And there was a large group of Bulgars (the "Proto-" version) coexisting with the Avars to the very end of their state. Looking for the "real Huns", given the fact that they were already such a mixed lot even prior to the attack on the Ostrogoths, is quite a challenge, genetic-wise...

Maximilian
05-31-2017, 07:54 AM
region as well I understand. It hasn't been met with a lot of credibility so far, no-one wants to be descended from the Huns apparently. :)


Well, then you don't know my father! :P

In Hungarian Kingdom aswell as in communistic Hungary they teached in schools that the Hungarian People is a descendent of the Huns. Some Hungarians are pretty proud of this, but I never found the real genetic evidence for that. So if there is a person with Haplotype Q1b or Q1a2 they have most likely hunnish ancestry? That is absolutely fascinating!

Jean M
05-31-2017, 08:02 AM
How did they manage to get Hun DNA? did they found a body of an ancient hun?

Ancient DNA of the Xiongnu, Hsiung-nu or Huns: http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/hunsdna.shtml

Maximilian
05-31-2017, 08:18 AM
Ancient DNA of the Xiongnu, Hsiung-nu or Huns: http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/hunsdna.shtml

Which is pretty interesting because only one of the samples has proven Haplogroup Q. Results in mtDNA is quite fascinating.

05-31-2017, 08:29 AM
Well, then you don't know my father! :P

In Hungarian Kingdom aswell as in communistic Hungary they teached in schools that the Hungarian People is a descendent of the Huns. Some Hungarians are pretty proud of this, but I never found the real genetic evidence for that. So if there is a person with Haplotype Q1b or Q1a2 they have most likely hunnish ancestry? That is absolutely fascinating!

During my travels, in Europe, I have met a few Hungarian people actually, and seems "Attila", is quite a common first given name amongst Hungarians, so I guess they must love their Hunnish heritage.

Maximilian
05-31-2017, 08:38 AM
During my travels, in Europe, I have met a few Hungarian people actually, and seems "Attila", is quite a common first given name amongst Hungarians, so I guess they must love their Hunnish heritage.

My father's first name actually is Attila :biggrin1:

Jean M
05-31-2017, 09:59 AM
I doubt whether there is much Hunnic DNA in Hungary today. Despite the name of the country, its language is Uralic, while the population is of mainly Slavic origin. Extract from AJ:


The Magyars are extraordinary. We can seek their origins among those Uralic speakers who remained in their ancient hunting grounds near the Urals and developed the Ugric language branch ... What set the Magyars on a different track? We can find clues in the Hungarian language. Turkic vocabulary was acquired, as we might expect if the Magyars were trading with the Volga Bulgars. Magyar trappers could have supplied furs to the thriving Bulgar market. They seem to have lived close by, on the left bank of the Volga, in what was later called Magna Hungaria. What induced a section of the Magyars to take to a semi-nomadic life on the Pontic steppe c. AD 800 is unclear, but it preserved their distinct ethnic and linguistic identity, even within the expanded Khazar Khaganate. ...

On the steppe the Magyars were cattle-herders and slave-raiders. They were a formidable force, by contemporary accounts. Yet attacks from the fierce Turkic Petchenegs led them to look for pastures new. In the years around AD 900, the Magyars moved up the Danube and conquered the Carpathian Basin, founding the Principality of Hungary. Hungarian tribal names included some that were Turkic and Iranian. Some renegade Khazars joined the movement. Slavs were already living in the Carpathian Basin. The Principality was an ethnic mixture from the start. How were the Hungarians able to retain the Magyar language? The Magyars certainly migrated in numbers that enabled them to terrify Europe. As the historian Peter Heather writes:

An orgy of equine-powered aggression saw Magyar raiding parties sweep through northern Italy and southern France with a ferocity not seen since the time of Attila.

Why then do the modern Hungarians appear genetically much like their Slavic neighbours? Genome-wide testing detected only a low level of an Asian element. They show little of the Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1a (M178) found in other Uralic-speaking populations – only around 0.5 per cent. Is this the result of the many population changes since the arrival of the Magyars? Or did the Magyars not carry this marker? One study set out to answer this question. The team looked at 10th-century Hungarian bone samples from rich graves typical of the conquerors. Two out of four carried the marker for N1c. This is a striking result. It is too small a sample to rely upon statistically. In other words we should not assume that exactly half of the incomers were N1c bearers. What it does prove is that N1c was among the haplogroups that arrived with the Magyars. Significantly a newly discovered marker, N-L1034, seems characteristic of both the Hungarian N1c and that carried by the Mansi, who speak the closest relative of Magyar.

Another Magyar burial with a horse yielded the East Asian mtDNA N9a, also found in two earlier Sarmatian burials in Hungary. This was exceptional though. Most other mtDNA haplogroups from that period in Hungary fall into Western Eurasian lineages. Overall the picture is of the Magyars imposing their rule upon a Slavic population. Subsequent immigration from neighbouring countries would further dilute the Magyar input.

Maximilian
05-31-2017, 10:13 AM
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Hungarian_Magyar_Y-DNA_Project?iframe=yresults

A lot of Haplogroup G,I and R.

"N-6. (Tat+ L708+ Z9136+ L1034+ L1442+)" is called "2400 BP Ugric/proto-Magyar". What's about the N-Group? Are they ugric, avaric or hunnic?

Gandhara
05-31-2017, 10:17 AM
Ambiguous claims. What surity do we have that it was a hun body? could have been anyone plus also assuming that the body was 100's pf years old what must have been the quality of the DNA sample. Even now, with all the technology we have and submit our swabs, some DNA samples fail and do not yield enough SNP's/calls. A 100's of year Hun Body produced a correct Y SNP call or ancestry call is a big question mark ! but good for creating thrill amongst the genealogical community.

Kanenas
05-31-2017, 11:17 AM
Hello dear Community,

I am interested in genetical leftovers of the Huns, which was a central asian people. They spoke a turkic language, as far as I know. After the death of Attila the Huns splitted all over Eastern Europe and the Caucasus Region. Some of them were settled in the so-called "Dobruja"-Region, which is in Romania and Bulgaria today. Below the Volga settled the "Hunno-Bulgarians", they were called the descendants of the Huns.

Are there any genetical projects about the Huns? What is their assumed Y-DNA Haplogroup?

I think they had some haplogroups people would hesitate to accept they might have had, some from N. Caucasians & Ossetians and some 'Slavic' especially R1a-M558, which is as I have said is relatively high in non-IE groups (mostly Uralic).
Also, R1a-Z93 and then some haplogroups which are stereotypically Turkic.
Note that the link between Huns and Xiognu is speculative and unprovable and if it's real it can be old. Also the theories concerning the 'migration period' don't exactly reflect reality.

Afshar
05-31-2017, 11:35 AM
From what I know the MRCA of the Q-M25 Hungarians is about 1700 years (according to Q project). So there is a high possibility the Huns brought in these (and other) haplogroups. But (most of) these guys are ethnic Szekelys.

Vars
07-25-2018, 10:20 AM
I'm not a historian nor DNA specialist.. just want to turn your attention to, in my opinion, a possible link to European Huns. Please consider the role of Jie tribe in the Xiongnu Confederacy. Seems that they were Yeniseian and the source of Q in the Xiongnu history (Mongolian and Chinese burials). Perhaps they or some of their ruling elites might later became the root of the Hunnic (in fact multiethnic band) entering Europe.

Mingle
02-08-2019, 05:21 AM
Exotic haplogroups like Q are not really indicative of Hunnish ancestry. It's probably much more likely for exotic haplogroups to have come from Old Hungarians, Avars, or Old Bulgars than Huns. The name Hungary is actually quite misleading. It has nothing to do with Huns and was originally spelled without the letter <H> in the beginning but then added later on due to the mistaken belief that the French name Ongrie (derived from the Turkic Onogur + Latin suffix -ie) was derived from the name of the Huns. The <H> was later added to Ongrie and it became Hongrie and that is the word that the English name is derived from. In Old English, the name used was Ungerland. If I'm not mistaken, Asian DNA (both autosomal and chromosomal) is quite a bit more common among Szeklers (as well as ethnic Romanians) than among Hungarians from Hungary. Hunnish DNA probably also exists among Hungarians (as well as other Carpathians), but I doubt most of the minor Asian ancestry among people in that region is from them.

Bl1tzTurk
06-25-2019, 07:59 PM
How can they judge whether a found skeleton belongs to a Hun etc.? I know they get this from a certain period of time, but many other people also lived in that time and region? Do they also find weapons in a grave that they can probably link to something?

spruithean
06-25-2019, 08:03 PM
How can they judge whether a found skeleton belongs to a Hun etc.? I know they get this from a certain period of time, but many other people also lived in that time and region? Do they also find weapons in a grave that they can probably link to something?

Context of the graves, goods contained within, etc.

Bl1tzTurk
06-25-2019, 08:07 PM
Context of the graves, goods contained within, etc.

Yes probably weaponry also.

spruithean
06-25-2019, 08:11 PM
Yes probably weaponry also.

There was a study recently which said something about anthropological evaluation being one of the determinants.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/597997v1.full