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View Full Version : Awan Tribe DNA Test. J2A-M410 Need help understanding.



Omair
05-31-2017, 10:53 PM
Hello,

I belong to the Salt Range area in Punjab, Pakistan. My ancestors have been living in this area for hundreds of years. Our tribe name is Awan.

I sent LivingDNA a test sample a few months ago and recently got my results. I'm very surprised to say the least!

Please help me understand these results. (I am unable to post images so posting results)

I am J2A-M410

In my Overview I am getting: 83.1 % South Asian.
My regional breakup (of the 83.1%) is: 42.6 Sindhi, 26.7 % Indian Subcontinent, 13.7 % Pushtoon.

Of the remaining 16.9 %.
6.7% Europe: Northwestern Europe 3.1%, Germanic 2.3%, Orkney Island 1.3%.
4.1 % Near East: North Turkey 2.4%. Armenia & Cyprus 1.7%.
2.1 % East Asia: South China
4 % Unassigned.

From my Father line my coverage Map is as follows:

1). 29% Sephardic Jewish
2). 28% Turkey
3). 28% Kurdish
4). 27% Georgia
5). 25% Lebanon
6). 23% Iran
7). 23% Askanazi Jewish
8). 22% Iraq
9). 22% Punjabi (which is the area I live in)
10). 21% Greece
11). 21% Caucasus
12). 20% Albania
13). 17% Sicily
14). 17% Palestine
15). 16 % Pakistan (Which is the country I live in)
16). 14% Basque
etc etc.

Motherline:

Haplogroup M

M18'38

Top 3 areas. 74 % Tibet. 71 % Ryukyu Islands, 70 % Japan. ?!? Completely amazed by this one.
My mothers side of the family two/three generations up was based in the area we live in for eons.


A few questions I have and would greatly appreciate more knowledgeable members answering along with any other information.

1). What does J2A-m410 mean in terms of paternal lineage ? Does it signify a middle eastern lineage ?

2). Our tribe traces it's linage back to the tribe of Banu Hashim of the Quresh of Arabia. I read somewhere that direct descendants of Banu Hashim are J21 variety, are they ?

3). How can someone whose family has been living in the same place for about 300 years confirmed (atleast) have 7 % European and 4 % Turkish DNA ?? Does it mean I had a grandmother from those areas ?

4). The father line ancestry groups are a complete surprise. What does it mean ? We do claim decent from Abraham (who was Jewish) though the Quresh.

5). On the Family Ancestry visualization it says the composition is from the last 10 generations. Does it mean in the previous 10 generations I have a Germanic, Pushtoon or Northwestern ancestor ?? (The one with the 83.1% and 16.9% breakup).

Any information would be extremely helpful.

Thanks,

ddugas
06-07-2017, 02:19 PM
Thanks for sharing your results. I'll try to assist with some thoughts on your questions:

1) J2a-M410 is a very broad haplogroup assignment and this Y-DNA signature can be found from India to Spain. You may find in your raw data some more refined mutations that put you into a more specific branch of J-M410.
2) Banu Hashim-you'll probably find a variety of haplogroups, most common being J-P58 (a branch of J1). I've read the king of Jordan is in this branch but never seen anything official. I do know there are many Banu Hashim in J2 as well.
3) My personal opinion of Autosomal DNA is that there is still much subjective interpretation to results. You have to take these things with a grain of salt. That being said, I think autosomal DNA analysis is increasingly getting better as reference populations increase. Still, you'll test with one company it will define one way, another will say something else. Its not that either is inaccurate, its just that sometimes, what they use to define a population can be found in other populations so reference data becomes very important in interpretation. Its getting better, but to give you an example, I am approx. 10% Native American and 23andme says I have Mongolian ancestry that entered my family tree 200 years ago. The truth is 23andme is trying to say too much, all its picking up is East Asian markers.
4. Your father line does seem to show some interesting results. J2a-M410 is quite common in Pakistan-found to a high degree in Brahui and all ethnic groups I think. Its also been in India for a long time. Still, worth looking at if you can refine that terminal Y-chromosome subclade.
5. again, these analyses are trying to say too much. Its saying the genetic signals they define as Germanic etc... are likely coming into your tree at a given point of time, but very likely its not a German ancestor who got lost in Central Asia :)

I hope this helps. I would recommend you try to get your raw data and research your Y-Chromosome more. You will likely be surprised to see where your terminal branch is found today.

jortita
06-07-2017, 02:33 PM
M18 is an India specific MTDNA haplogroup

Omair
06-08-2017, 06:15 PM
At ddugas Thank you very much. I'll contact LivingDNA and see if I can get hold of my raw data.

Which would be the best test to take for getting much detail on lineage as possible ? Is it the one they call Y-111 ?

Also any recommendations as to which other company offers the most detailed/specific lineage results ?

At Jortita Thanks.

ddugas
06-09-2017, 12:54 PM
Family tree dna is probably still the best place for Y Chromosome testing. You could get a Y-111 or a Y-67 but the Big Y will test and find Y chromosome SNP's, which are used as nodes to build the Y chromosome tree. Seems like Y testing has largely moved towards SNP tests but the STR (Y-111 etc...) are still very useful for recent genetic genealogical comparisons.

Omair
06-10-2017, 07:50 PM
Ok, thank you.

I just got my raw data from LivingDNA. They recently allowed downloading RAW data. I was able to download three files including my FTDNA.

The file is an Excel file and goes something like this. These are the first 23 lines, it goes on for about 240 lines. It was marked Fatherline Positive SNP's.

Any ideas as to what this means or how I can decode this information ?

Thanks.


AM00847/AMM008/B65
AM01921.2/S475.2/Z2983.2
CTS10083
CTS10362/M5770
CTS109/M8948
CTS10946/M5804
CTS11750/PF4618/YSC0001250
CTS11787/PF4621/YSC0001251
CTS11827/M5816
CTS1217/M5597
CTS125/M5576
CTS1250/PF4510/YSC0001255
CTS1996/M5651
CTS2229/PF6254
CTS2254/M3680/PF2657
CTS3460/M5670
CTS3936/PF4543/YSC0001275
CTS4076/Z1011
CTS4349/PF4547
CTS4443/M3696/PF2677
CTS5318/M5690
CTS543/M5584
CTS5545.1/CTS5545.2/M3163.1/M3163.2/PF4554.1/PF4554.2/YSC0001284.1/YSC0001284.2

Rayaan
01-22-2018, 05:15 AM
Upload into gedmatch. There are other calculators that you can use to analyse your data.

Omair
12-03-2018, 10:30 AM
Hello again,

Took the Big Y 111 at FTDNA and after the results took the SNP pack M172. Ended up with FT-DNA saying I'm J-PF5050.

Further tested the J-PF5050 tree for the only available test which was PF5007 and PF5058 which came up in a negative. Found that a bit strange as it didn't have any other groups/options to narrow me down more.

Could the more experienced members kindly elaborate more on this. I'm out of my depth here.

Thanks.

Kulin
12-03-2018, 02:18 PM
Awans are not of Arab origin. They're an agricultural tribe that subscribed to Arab ancestry over the years, just like groups like Arains or Abbasis. Awans are probably related to Rajputs or Gakhars, if anything.

R2d2
11-10-2019, 10:34 PM
Awans are not of Arab origin. They're an agricultural tribe that subscribed to Arab ancestry over the years, just like groups like Arains or Abbasis. Awans are probably related to Rajputs or Gakhars, if anything.

Growing DNA evidence that Awans are local caste related to Jat & Rajputs as far East as Haryana. Arab claims are false.

Ali Shah
02-15-2020, 10:30 AM
Assalamoalikum
You can rest assured of your origin, Haplogroup J (J1 and J2) is very common in both Arab and Jewish populations.
It is definitely not a local Indian haplogroup, so your results are good enough. I know others who claim the same descent and they fall under J2 also. Don’t worry about the bias which you will find on forums trying to proove that it is not an arab haplogroup. It is definitely not an indigenous haplogroup of India.

aaronbee2010
02-15-2020, 11:08 AM
It is definitely not an indigenous haplogroup of India.

[citation needed]

Ali Shah
02-20-2020, 02:53 AM
Haplogroup J is definitely not an indigenous Indian haplogroup, so do not worry about the bias you will find on threads that are trying to proof that J2 is indigenous to India. Both J1 and J2 are the biggest haplogroups amongst Arab and Jews who are both Semetic. I do know a lot of people from Banu Hashim who are the same haplogroup as you are, your results are a proof of your family claim to be true.

MonkeyDLuffy
04-14-2020, 01:56 AM
Haplogroup J is definitely not an indigenous Indian haplogroup, so do not worry about the bias you will find on threads that are trying to proof that J2 is indigenous to India. Both J1 and J2 are the biggest haplogroups amongst Arab and Jews who are both Semetic. I do know a lot of people from Banu Hashim who are the same haplogroup as you are, your results are a proof of your family claim to be true.

Seems like you registered specially to post this lmao. The J Haplogroup is found in so many groups all over south asia, in all religions. And is traced back to IVC times. Family stories lie, genetics don't.

pegasus
04-14-2020, 02:23 AM
Assalamoalikum
You can rest assured of your origin, Haplogroup J (J1 and J2) is very common in both Arab and Jewish populations.
It is definitely not a local Indian haplogroup, so your results are good enough. I know others who claim the same descent and they fall under J2 also. Don’t worry about the bias which you will find on forums trying to proove that it is not an arab haplogroup. It is definitely not an indigenous haplogroup of India.

Its been in South Asia since the Neolithic, and the clade you harbor is very likely from Aceramic Merhgarh, thats roughly 8-9Kya , way before Semitic people existed and moved into the Levant.

Ali Shah
05-16-2020, 03:25 PM
One question if anyone can answer.
What causes a DNA haplogroup to mutate?

bilalawan
09-21-2020, 10:32 PM
Awans are not Arabs
j2 are a early semetic(spread in europe fertile crescents of Mediterraneans by the Phoenicians ) branch found also in old Arab lineages it is more north of Mesopotamia more related to Hittites , original Anatolian found in many people claiming to be Jews, convert jews, Ashkenazi i..e the Quran and arabs refers to them as Yahud jewish bastards when taken as slaves and woman raped etc...
Jews who have j1 only some are legit Bani Israeel, sons of Isreal or sons of Yakub/Jacob son of Isaac son of Abraham, othe rJ1's are ismaili arabs converted
arabs are old Arabs who are from G, E and some small R, T, and J2 and some
modern arabs absorbed Semitic lineages in the wider middle east
Adnani or Ismaili arabs are from Abraham (as) so are Jews mainly people claiming to be adnani are from J1, around 70% matches up with to make the above claim, majority of well known sayyid lineages from lands other than pakistan and turkey i.e. Hashmi royal family of jordan started the Dna testing rage with arabs and is helped via jews which are obsessed as well
the Old Arab Qhatani stories are lies, Dna doesnt match up historical context they were made up in Abbasid and Ummayid periods we have no idea how long humans have been about and form Islamic or scientific perspective. also the only real lineage quoted that Muslims should believe is Adnan to Muhammed (pbuh),
Arabs are mainly old yemani (also mixed with Abyssinian/Ethiopian and African lineages)and adnani arabs who are part of the wider semetic culture,language and people.
The problem is a lot of info relies on christian info which is proven false, i.e. only 3 sons of noah survived, Abraham was alive same time as Babel was created with the grandsons of Noah(Sam/Sem aka the Semitics ), Islam doesn't give definite lianges
there is proof humans have had many extinction events in the last 100,000 years, inline with Islamic sufi theories
we have proof that we all descend from a conman male ancestor and female maternally which lends be to think most of what quran and hadith says about Adam is vague
i believe other Homo species are also human sons of Adam plausible back to the point
J2 is found heavily in Anatolian Greeks modern Iranians some medium Pakistan and north idea mainly shia Muslim, but are a easly semetic branch or their cousins which some mixed into them i.e. come from the people who became Mesopotamian, Babylonian, Sumerian, Anotolains, Phoenicians(very important in spreading semetic language writing, culture and dna )
it has also been well known before DNA testing even 100's of years ago, most sayyed and claimants of qurayshi decent are faked in indo-pak and modern day turkey regions well known even around 1300AD

i have never seen a Awan have J1 let alone the qurayshi subclade
all Sufi's who claimed to be Awan never said they are from a Alawi Lineage but a claim by their decedents

check J1 J2 on here they have a good chart you'll see many Jews to be fake, awan and many sayyid from pakistan/indian are fake
https://www.eupedia.com/

many projects on
https://www.familytreedna.com/
give much data on people claims to be form certain arab tribes like awan and sayyid/ashraf lineages
like
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/j-1el-147/about/background

subzero85
09-22-2020, 12:24 AM
The problem with local/indigenous is how far back you want to go.

10,000 years ago my J2 ancestors were foreign.

Around 2,000 years ago, they may not have been.