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Gandhara
06-01-2017, 10:51 PM
Dear forum members,

I am starting this thread to invite all genealogical keeners ( specially people with Y haplogroup H) to participate and share their thoughts about origin/current geographic coverage and sub clad discussion :

I am an H and this is my terminal SNP:

https://i.gyazo.com/29899d65f243bb19087279cf181fd42b.png

Coverage as percentage of population for the countries below is as under :

https://i.gyazo.com/c675c188540f5189813cfdba814d422d.png


Also I am curious if H is the Harappa /Mohenjo-Daro ancient Haplogroup and we are the decendants of them!

Open to comments and feedback !

bol_nat
06-02-2017, 02:04 AM
My downstream of H is more then likely same as you,H-Z14258.

Gandhara
06-02-2017, 02:13 AM
My downstream of H is more then likely same as you,H-Z14258.

Haplogroup H is one of the most rare haplogroups and with the most shallow sub clade tree. Surprisingly enough, only 26 % of current day indian population has it and only 6 percent in Pakistan! or it could be that these regions are still under sampled.

bol_nat
06-02-2017, 02:42 AM
Haplogroup H is one of the most rare haplogroups and with the most shallow sub clade tree. Surprisingly enough, only 26 % of current day indian population has it and only 6 percent in Pakistan! or it could be that these regions are still under sampled.

results of over 1200 samples. R1a take major chunk and then for rest of dozen or so haplogrups only about half of samples are left to divide between them. H isn't rare compared to other haplogroups not named r1a.
http://i.imgur.com/hU1RIsN.jpg

Coldmountains
06-02-2017, 04:46 AM
Dear forum members,

I am starting this thread to invite all genealogical keeners ( specially people with Y haplogroup H) to participate and share their thoughts about origin/current geographic coverage and sub clad discussion :

I am an H and this is my terminal SNP:

https://i.gyazo.com/29899d65f243bb19087279cf181fd42b.png

Coverage as percentage of population for the countries below is as under :

https://i.gyazo.com/c675c188540f5189813cfdba814d422d.png


Also I am curious if H is the Harappa /Mohenjo-Daro ancient Haplogroup and we are the decendants of them!

Open to comments and feedback !

H is a very old haplogroup. It was found in Neolithic Europe and Anatolia among EEFs but in South Asia it has different origins. I would associate it with Iran-Neo admixture but without ancient dna from South Asia we don't know.

Ebizur
06-02-2017, 07:27 AM
I note that that dendrogram has your H-Z14258 lineage positioned as a subclade of H-M52, whereas the current version of the YFull tree (v5.04) has H-Z14258 as a subclade of H-Z5867 directly under H-M69 and outside the H-M52 clade. It appears that there is still a great deal of uncertainty regarding the phylogenetic structure of Y-DNA haplogroup H.

Gandhara
06-02-2017, 11:39 AM
H is a very old haplogroup. It was found in Neolithic Europe and Anatolia among EEFs but in South Asia it has different origins. I would associate it with Iran-Neo admixture but without ancient dna from South Asia we don't know.

True and is said to be 50,000 yrs and originated in India and interestingly enough the coverage is more in Romani people than Indian people themselves.


I note that that dendrogram has your H-Z14258 lineage positioned as a subclade of H-M52, whereas the current version of the YFull tree (v5.04) has H-Z14258 as a subclade of H-Z5867 directly under H-M69 and outside the H-M52 clade. It appears that there is still a great deal of uncertainty regarding the phylogenetic structure of Y-DNA haplogroup H.

The H Tree is constantly changing , with snps moved from here n there, a lot of uncertainty as I mentioned that it is one of the rare male lineages and with not a robust phylogenetic structure at the moment.

mattassis
07-12-2017, 06:33 PM
Hi guys,

Great to a see a new thread on our haplogroup. I'm H-M69 (but negative for M52). My father's family is Anglo-Indian from South India (Karnataka and Kerala). I have an English surname (Austin) from a distant British ancestor - or so we thought - who had children with an Indian wife or mistress (the typical Anglo-Indian story). But given that I'm H-M69, I'm guessing that either an Indian ancestor changed his name - perhaps in order to appear Anglo-Indian (for whatever reason) - or there was an NPE somewhere along the line. Or are other theories more likely?

Gandhara
07-13-2017, 09:54 AM
Hi guys,

Great to a see a new thread on our haplogroup. I'm H-M69 (but negative for M52). My father's family is Anglo-Indian from South India (Karnataka and Kerala). I have an English surname (Austin) from a distant British ancestor - or so we thought - who had children with an Indian wife or mistress (the typical Anglo-Indian story). But given that I'm H-M69, I'm guessing that either an Indian ancestor changed his name - perhaps in order to appear Anglo-Indian (for whatever reason) - or there was an NPE somewhere along the line. Or are other theories more likely?

which DNA company did you have your test with?

mattassis
07-14-2017, 09:04 PM
which DNA company did you have your test with?

I had autosomal testing done with Ancestry and FTDNA, then my mt and Y-DNA tests done at FTDNA.

Gandhara
07-14-2017, 10:05 PM
I had autosomal testing done with Ancestry and FTDNA, then my mt and Y-DNA tests done at FTDNA.

Kool, would u mind sharing your autosomal results with us .

mattassis
07-21-2017, 06:46 PM
Kool, would u mind sharing your autosomal results with us .

I'd be happy to:

FTDNA myOrigins
British Isles 66%
Southeast Europe 2%
Central Asia 9%
South Central Asia 20%
Southeast Asia <2%
South Central Africa <1%
West Africa <1%

AncestryDNA
Asia South 29%
Asia East 4%
Great Britain 41%
Iberian Peninsula 14%
Ireland 6%
Scandinavia 2%
Europe West 2%
Polynesia 1%
Melanesia 1%

MyHeritage (average of FTDNA/Ancestry data)
Europe 65.8%
North & West Europe 60.1%
South Europe (Iberian) 5.7%
South Asian 34.2%

DNA.land (Ancestry)
Northwest European 58%
South Asian 27% (Dravidian 21%, Gujarati 5.8%)
Southwestern European 7.3%
Sardinian 1.7%
South/Central European 4.5%
East-Turkic 1.1%
Ambiguous 1.1%

DNA.land (FTDNA)
Northwest European 55%
South Asian 29% (Dravidian 23%, Gujarati 6.1%)
Southwestern European 7.6%
Sardinian 1.1%
South/Central European 3.5%
North African 4.2%

Zayd
08-17-2017, 02:17 AM
I have done YDNA 37 markers test from FTDNA and they took very long time(they were confused about my haplogroup then decided to do backbone snp test) before giving me H-M69.
I could be wrong but i think haplogroup H is one of the primary haplogroup alongside R and O in Bangladesh.
It would be interesting to know the exact origin of haplogroup H, the only thing i know its present in subcontinent from Paleolithic and its not even restricted to any particular castes,in both Indo aryan and Dravidian.Its presence in Kalash tribes and even in Tajikistan is also interesting.H2 in the other hand seems European in origin, probably patrilineal lineages of earliest Europeans,according to wikipedia.
Razib Khan predicted H or J2 for Rakhigarhi's skeletons.

Searcher
09-11-2017, 08:29 PM
I have done YDNA 37 markers test from FTDNA and they took very long time(they were confused about my haplogroup then decided to do backbone snp test) before giving me H-M69.
I could be wrong but i think haplogroup H is one of the primary haplogroup alongside R and O in Bangladesh.
It would be interesting to know the exact origin of haplogroup H, the only thing i know its present in subcontinent from Paleolithic and its not even restricted to any particular castes,in both Indo aryan and Dravidian.Its presence in Kalash tribes and even in Tajikistan is also interesting.H2 in the other hand seems European in origin, probably patrilineal lineages of earliest Europeans,according to wikipedia.
Razib Khan predicted H or J2 for Rakhigarhi's skeletons.

I'm also a Bangladeshi with H* Y-DNA (though I have not gone beyond autosomal testing yet). I'm also interested in seeing where the origins come from.

Salento
09-11-2017, 09:56 PM
mtDNA H12
Lecce Italy

mattassis
09-11-2017, 10:20 PM
mtDNA H12
Lecce Italy

Hi Salento,

Just so you're aware, this thread is on the topic of Y-DNA haplogroup H rather than mtDNA haplogroup H.

picto22
09-11-2017, 10:46 PM
H2
Scotland

Salento
09-12-2017, 11:14 AM
Got it 😳😄

Zayd
09-12-2017, 04:55 PM
H2
Scotland

Interesting! H2 is rare but it seems some Northern Europeans have it.Ive seen Swedish,Dutch and Now Scottish :)

vettor
09-12-2017, 06:14 PM
H ydna has been found in Neolithic Germany and also IIRC in bronze-age thracian lands

this is H2 ( P96 ) which was known as F3 ydna up to 2013..............so check out F3 in older studies

picto22
09-12-2017, 09:49 PM
I will have to research it by F3...
Where did you see the other people with H2?

Cheers

Zayd
09-12-2017, 10:53 PM
I will have to research it by F3...
Where did you see the other people with H2?

Cheers

I've seen in ydna H project.I suggest you to join Ydna H projects.

ssamlal
10-02-2017, 10:11 PM
FTDNA resolves me to H-L901 (tested to Y-DNA37 level)

WeGene resolves me to H1 and my two brothers to H1b2 (based on Ancestry DNA raw data).
19115

On wikipedia H1b2 includes SNP H-Z14258 (reference is made to ISOGG Y-DNA Haplogroup H Subclades tree – 2016)

On the ISOGG website, the 2017 Subclades tree has SNP Z14258 included in H1a2b.

I'm totally confused :(

** Edit
Just noticed the following text at the bottom on the WeGene Haplogroup page:
International Society of Genetic Genealogy (2016). Y-DNA Haplogroup Tree 2016, Version: 1.87,Date: 29 March 2016, http://www.isogg.org/tree/ 30 March 2016.

Gandhara
10-03-2017, 02:57 AM
FTDNA resolves me to H-L901 (tested to Y-DNA37 level)

WeGene resolves me to H1 and my two brothers to H1b2 (based on Ancestry DNA raw data).
19115

On wikipedia H1b2 includes SNP H-Z14258 (reference is made to ISOGG Y-DNA Haplogroup H Subclades tree – 2016)

On the ISOGG website, the 2017 Subclades tree has SNP Z14258 included in H1a2b.

I'm totally confused :(

** Edit
Just noticed the following text at the bottom on the WeGene Haplogroup page:
International Society of Genetic Genealogy (2016). Y-DNA Haplogroup Tree 2016, Version: 1.87,Date: 29 March 2016, http://www.isogg.org/tree/ 30 March 2016.

you and I have the same terminal Y Snp!:beerchug: The new 2017 is more accurate!

arithmatic
10-03-2017, 09:53 PM
I am H-Z4417 and per ISO site it is H1a1b1a. My ancestors come from area near Jodhpur India (NW part of India). The twist in the story is that all my close relates (same caste and native place) who don't share the same parental lineage as us are R2 or R1. So my family's y-dna group is definitely an anomaly in the area which is our native place for at least last 300-400 years of known history of my family. My 23andme results link me to distant Gujarati relatives closer to Kutch so chances are that my ancestors migrated from Kutch several generations ago. Also an interesting finding on mtDNA side is that a good number of females from my native place (same caste and community) have T2 haplogroup which is not common in India. It is common in east europe or russia. Also the R2 version of y-dna haplogroup of males in my family who dont share my dad's line, is shared by many russian males. My theory so far is that there is a lot of credence to Aryan invasion theory where people from eastern europe (likely from Yamna culture) invaded India around 5000 BC and mixed with local population at the time. Not surprisingly, Indus valley civilization along with writing script disappeared around the same time. But the people of indus valley mixed with newcomers and were together responsible for major population expansion in the rest of South Asia giving rise to Indo-Gangetic plain culture.

BTW anyone else with H-Z4417?

Koolmets21
10-11-2017, 11:35 PM
I'm H-M82. Broken down to h1a1d2b. Or H-M2972 as terminal SNP I believe. This came from Scotland. Found out my great great grandfather was Romani

Qazi
10-12-2017, 09:14 PM
I'm H-M52, Paternal side traces back to Marathi Muslims who claimed to be Syed but are most likely descended from local converts.

parasar
10-12-2017, 11:50 PM
I am H-Z4417 and per ISO site it is H1a1b1a. My ancestors come from area near Jodhpur India (NW part of India). The twist in the story is that all my close relates (same caste and native place) who don't share the same parental lineage as us are R2 or R1. So my family's y-dna group is definitely an anomaly in the area which is our native place for at least last 300-400 years of known history of my family. My 23andme results link me to distant Gujarati relatives closer to Kutch so chances are that my ancestors migrated from Kutch several generations ago. Also an interesting finding on mtDNA side is that a good number of females from my native place (same caste and community) have T2 haplogroup which is not common in India. It is common in east europe or russia. Also the R2 version of y-dna haplogroup of males in my family who dont share my dad's line, is shared by many russian males. My theory so far is that there is a lot of credence to Aryan invasion theory where people from eastern europe (likely from Yamna culture) invaded India around 5000 BC and mixed with local population at the time. Not surprisingly, Indus valley civilization along with writing script disappeared around the same time. But the people of indus valley mixed with newcomers and were together responsible for major population expansion in the rest of South Asia giving rise to Indo-Gangetic plain culture.

BTW anyone else with H-Z4417?

A couple of points:
I think you mean 3000 bc or 5000 ybp since the Yamna is not older than that.
Also as far as R2 goes - there are two R2 samples from Iran one of which is on the main M124 (Y3399) line.
"I1945 Iran Neolithic R2a-Y3399 calls
I1949 Iran Neolithic pre-R2-M479 calls"
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2016/06/22/y-snp-calls-from-the-ancient-near-east/

ssamlal
10-20-2017, 11:53 AM
My downstream of H is more then likely same as you,H-Z14258.

@bol_nat: I'm also H-Z14258 :)
What's also interesting is that my mtDNA Haplogroup is M5a'd (and your's is M5a) :beerchug:

Paul333
10-23-2017, 07:33 PM
H2 North England.

Living DNA cautious results, 100% European.
100% Gt Britian & Ireland.
Broken down Related Sub regions 54.3% Northumbria
29.7% South East England
4.4% Orkney Isle
3.2% Cornwall
8.3 % Gt Britian & Ireland unassigned

Paul333
10-24-2017, 08:47 PM
I will have to research it by F3...
Where did you see the other people with H2?

Cheers

Hello Picto22, cannot reply to your private message yet, as I have to have more posts,

picto22
10-24-2017, 08:52 PM
No problem Paul... If you find any good information or theories on H2... send it my way please.

Paul333
10-24-2017, 09:23 PM
Hello again Picto22,
I was informed on another site, by Sile, that up to 22.2% of the Neolithic LBK excavations in Derenburg, Germany were carriers of the Y-H2 haplogroup, think the period was around 5400-4900 BC.

picto22
10-24-2017, 09:35 PM
If you look at the frequency of it here... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_H_(Y-DNA)

Paul333
10-24-2017, 11:24 PM
Have a look on Familytree.com Y-DNA Haplogroup H,results,map,and click top left window for H2, you will then see there are only four in modern or recent Europe, including one in Sweden, Switzerland, and Northern France,and one in Romania, with a German sounding name, one in America, and two in Turkey, one of whom has a Russian sounding name. That is not a lot.

picto22
10-25-2017, 08:43 AM
Aye the Swedish one is recent... We are in a frequency of 0.05% in western europe... I'm quite sure the moderator on there said in a post that he thinks it could get reassigned from H... Will have to wait and see...

Paul333
10-25-2017, 10:07 AM
I agree, from what I have come across, its was closly found with I2a carriers, earlier, mostly with G2a, so there is that possibility, 'Time will Tell'...lol

Paul333
01-18-2018, 05:05 PM
Update for, Y H2, in Europe. There is now another H2 (P96 ) recorded in Sweden, (Stockholm) as per the 'Swedish Haplogroup Database'. ( tested 3/3/ 2017 ) It seems this is separate from the FTDNA H (H2 P96) earlier Haplogroup mentioned from Osta Herrestad, South East Sweden.

SpinosaurusN3H1
02-11-2018, 07:45 PM
I have done YDNA 37 markers test from FTDNA and they took very long time(they were confused about my haplogroup then decided to do backbone snp test) before giving me H-M69.
I could be wrong but i think haplogroup H is one of the primary haplogroup.....

As per Poznik data, Y-DNA Haplogroup H was found to be the most common in Bangladeshi samples followed by R then J.

tipirneni
02-16-2018, 03:49 AM
Hello All
I am H-M82 South Indian. Common in India. Primarly mixed with L & R1a/R2 population.
I have U2a1 mtDNA.

Following is the ancient match summary. I get good autosomal hits on Yamnaya, Sarmatian, EF, LBK Stuttgart, Uralic, Kotias, Bichon etc...

ANCIENT HITSZ Group Specific
Caucausus cM SNPs
I1635 Armenia EBA [2619-2465 BC] 2.4 211 Bronze Age Vedic Charioter
I1631 ArmeniaChL 2.6 238 Chalco Vedic Charioter
I1658 ArmeniaEBA 2.8 260 Bronze Age Vedic Charioter
Kotias CHG 29.8 12 segments > 2 cM/200 snp = 29.8 cM CHG upper paleo Gujarati D/C

Steppe cM SNPs
Kostenki14,Russia, 37ky 8.6 3 segments above 200 upper paleo
I0440 Poltavka 5.5 2 segments above 200 pit grave
RISE395,Russia,3.5ky 4.9 2 segments above 200 Sintashta CW europe
RISE497,Russia,~2ky 23.7 cM 10 segments above 200 East Scythian/South Siberia Nepali Thapa
RISE496,Russia,3ky 2.9 266 East Scythian/South Siberia Nepali Thapa
RISE493,Russia,3.2ky, Karasuk 45.5 cM/5.9 16 segments above 200 East Scythian/South Siberia Nepali Thapa
RISE552,Russia,4ky,Yamnaya 2.3 207 Yamnaya North Brahmin
RISE548,Russia,~2ky 2.9 222 Yamnaya North Brahmin
RISE505_Andronovo 12.1 cM 5 segments above 200 Andronovo Brahmin
RISE511_Afanasyevo 7.4 3 segments above 200 Caucasus North Brahmin/Tiwari
Afontova Gora 2-3 merged 9.6 3 segments above 200 Caucasus saka
I0122 Khvalynsk 4.7 2 segments above 200 Caucasus saka
I0124 Samara EHG 7 3 segments above 200 Caucasus saka
Khvalynsk EHG merged 8.2 3 segments above 200 Caucasus saka
I0430 Srubnaya 37.6 cM 15 segments above 200 NPR Scythian Sarmatian
I0232 Srubnaya 5.4 cM 2 segments above 200 NPR Scythian Sarmatian

NorthEurope cM SNPs
Saami Kola 25 120.3 cM/4.4 44 segments above 200 Finnish north Scythian uralic
Saami Kola 1 109.8 cM/5.7 41 segments above 200 uralic
Saami Kola 10 137.3 cM/6.5 48 segments above 200 uralic
Saami Kola 5 98.7 cM/5.4 38 segments above 200 uralic
RusPinega17 89.6 cM 32 segments above 200 NorthEast Slavic/ural uralic
RusPinega20 100.8 cM/4.5 38 segments above 200 NorthEast Slavic/ural uralic
RusPinega9 77.0 cM/4.8 25 segments above 200 NorthEast Slavic/ural uralic
RusPinega1 90.5 cM/4.6 32 segments above 200 NorthEast Slavic/ural uralic
Ireland NE BallyNaHatty 17cM/3.2/340 7 above 200 Basque/Sardinia/Steppe/EF Basque/Sardinia/Steppe/EF
Sunghir 6 Valdmir Rusin 14.4cM 5 match max 5.7/375 Russia 1160AD Russia 1160AD

East Europe cM SNPs
I1506-NE1 (HungaryEN) 63.1 cM/4cM 26 match above 200 LBK Huna/Alans
I1495-NE7 (HungaryEN) 2.4 213 LBK Huna/Alans
I1502 BR1 7.6 3 above 200 LBK Huna/Alans
BR2, Hungary, 3.2ky 77.2 cM/4.6cM 28 matching segments above 200 LBK Huna/Alans bronze
NE5, Hungary, 7.1ky 3.4cM 215 LBK Huna/Alans
RISE373 Maros 2.3 100+ LBK K1a
RISE374 Maros Hungary 4.9 103 LBK 1000+ BC

Central Europe cM SNPs
LBK, Stuttgart, 7ky 59.6 cM 23 segments match above 200 Euro Farmer/Anatolia Anatolia migration/Neolithic
I0118 Alberstedt LNBA 2.9 276 LBK Anatolia migration
I0099 HalberstadtLNBA 4.7 2 above 200 LBK Anatolia migration
RISE150,Poland,3.4ky 7.7 3 matching segments above 200 LBK Anatolia migration
RISE94,Sweden,4ky, Battle Axe 3.1 204 Anatolia migration
RISE431 Corded Ware Proto-Unetice Poland [2286-2048 BC] 19.3 cM 3 matching segments above 100 EF Anatolia migration
Swiss BICHON WHG 13.5KBP 21.1cM 8 match above 2cM/200 max 447 WHG LBK Mesolithic

Donald Locke
04-13-2018, 02:10 PM
Hi everyone, not posted on this forum in a long time but I wanted to give you all an update on things.

For you who may not know me, I am Donald Locke, Admin of the Y Haplogroup H project through FTDNA. The H* tree has been pretty stagnate for the last decade, but that is rapidly changing and in a hurry thanks to Y Haplo H participants having ordered the Big Y test over the last year or so which is really helping expand the H tree like I haven't seen happen over the last decade which is pretty exciting.

I just completed my Big Y test, I am of British Romanichal ancestry and I was tested positive for a newly identified downsteam of M82 known as H-SK1225.
Another Rom of Moldova had completed his Big Y back on November of 2017 and he too has tested positive for SK1225 though FTDNA does not show either of us in SK1225 as of yet, why I do not know.

H2 formerly known as F3 has made very good progress thanks to those participants ordering the Big Y test, so the H2 tree is expanding in positive ways.

Because of the advancements made in the Y Haplo H tree over the last year, the Y Haplo H project is now seeking donations to help pay for free Big Y tests.
The first participant to get a free Big Y test will be a British Romanichal of the Boswell surname who has already agreed to accept a free Big Y test once the funds become available. Boswell is an important Romanichal family surname in the fact this his is one of the oldest, largest and more well known of the British Romanichal family surnames of the UK.

And if the project can obtain more donations, I will be randomly choosing H participants whom have tested at least 67 markers from various regions, South Asia, Middle East, Indonesia to see if they will accept a free Big Y test as well to get as many H* participants Big Y tested as possible.
I was once told by someone from the FTDNA help desk that they did not recommend Y Haplo H* participants ordering the Big Y test, but they did not give me a reason for why they thought that. But regardless of what one person at FTDNA thought, H* participants have been ordering the Big Y test anyway and the H tree has expanded like I have not seen happen over the last decade which is really exciting.

So here I am updating you all on some of the progress the H tree has made, and I truly believe that we can make a big difference by having even more
H* men Big Y tested and that is where we need help, finding the funding to help pay for free Big Y testing.

There are currently 22 H* men being listed as Test Pending for the Y-500 and exactly what will be learned through that Y-500 study is totally unknown to me, but I am looking forward to what FTDNA can come up with.

thejkhan
04-19-2018, 05:00 PM
Dear forum members,

I am starting this thread to invite all genealogical keeners ( specially people with Y haplogroup H) to participate and share their thoughts about origin/current geographic coverage and sub clad discussion :

I am an H and this is my terminal SNP:


Coverage as percentage of population for the countries below is as under :



Also I am curious if H is the Harappa /Mohenjo-Daro ancient Haplogroup and we are the decendants of them!

Open to comments and feedback !


H-Z14258 is not dowstream of H-M52. So you and bol_nat are either H-M52 (some downstream subclade) or H-Z14258, but cannot be both.

Paul333
04-26-2018, 07:53 PM
Update for, Y H2, in Europe. There is now another H2 (P96 ) recorded in Sweden, (Stockholm) as per the 'Swedish Haplogroup Database'. ( tested 3/3/ 2017 ) It seems this is separate from the FTDNA H (H2 P96) earlier Haplogroup mentioned from Osta Herrestad, South East Sweden.

There is yet another referenced Y-H2 in Hammar, Sweden, making now three separate Y H2 references in one country. All have different surnames and may represent three individual, and separate Y H2 Haplogroup paternal lineage's. There is not a lot of information regarding the origins or the movements of this specific Haplogroup Y H2 ,throughout Europe or Eurasia.

Artmar
05-06-2018, 01:05 PM
Any of the Big-Y tested H's planning to join YFull.com?

There are only two participants belonging to Roma-specific clade: https://yfull.com/tree/H-Y17916/

H2 looks better but i guess that lacks some interesting samples: https://yfull.com/tree/H-P96/

mephisto
05-06-2018, 01:36 PM
There is yet another referenced Y-H2 in Hammar, Sweden, making now three separate Y H2 references in one country. All have different surnames and may represent three individual, and separate Y H2 Haplogroup paternal lineage's. There is not a lot of information regarding the origins or the movements of this specific Haplogroup Y H2 ,throughout Europe or Eurasia.
Y Haplogroup H2 was found in the Neolithic Levant (sample I0867). Everything on the spread to Europe (if at all) would be more than speculative.

Paul333
05-06-2018, 07:05 PM
Every thing about Y H2 looks speculative..lol.

Its why I am trying to find further information. It has been found in ancient, burials, and from Neolithic periods from the middle east, to Anatolia, Central Europe, ( Derenburg ),Germany, Iberia ( El Portalon cave ) Spain, and India. It is associated with EEF, I have been informed, but confusingly I have also been informed it may be one of the original founding European Paternal Haplogroups. I have also been led to believe H2 specific may of Split from the Main H Haplogroup as it came out of Africa, through the Levant/Fertile cresent area, then West towards Europe, whilst H1 & H3 travelled East. I have also been led to believe,that it possibly arrived in the Indian area from Europe originally.

An opinion I came across, informed it was 'characteristicratically Indian'travelling from India to Hungary, also entering Europe from both the Black Sea and Anatolia. ( One opinion suggests these EEF farmers,including Y H2 were actually attacked and eaten/cannibalised when reaching Central Europe by the local Hunter gatherers, nice welcome ).

The Levante Y 'H' haplogroups, journeyed to Egypt and North Africa, probably also from india, from what I understood. ref = 'The Aryan Invasion' Feb 11 2017, Priydarshi MD FRCP Edin.

It is how I, and this Paternal Y Haplogroup H2, specifically got to Europe, and then Britian, via Europe, that im trying to locate. I would like to know which is the more likely explanation of its arrival to Western Europe. Today it is found in a number of European Country's From the North to the East. Im not sure, but I can only find myself in England, and one other person in Scotland, with the specific Haplogroup Y H2 in Britian today.

thejkhan
05-09-2018, 05:49 AM
An opinion I came across, informed it was 'characteristicratically Indian'travelling from India to Hungary, also entering Europe from both the Black Sea and Anatolia. ( One opinion suggests these EEF farmers,including Y H2 were actually attacked and eaten/cannibalised when reaching Central Europe by the local Hunter gatherers, nice welcome ).

The Levante Y 'H' haplogroups, journeyed to Egypt and North Africa, probably also from india, from what I understood. ref = 'The Aryan Invasion' Feb 11 2017, Priydarshi MD FRCP Edin.

It is how I, and this Paternal Y Haplogroup H2, specifically got to Europe, and then Britian, via Europe, that im trying to locate. I would like to know which is the more likely explanation of its arrival to Western Europe. Today it is found in a number of European Country's From the North to the East. Im not sure, but I can only find myself in England, and one other person in Scotland, with the specific Haplogroup Y H2 in Britian today.

Let me add more speculation.

I think H2 has very little to do with the Indian branch of H. They split around 40k years ago. Check the yfull tree for H: yfull.com/tree/H/

My guess, H-L901 originated in Afghanistan. One group separated and left for the Near East around 40k years ago, eventually becoming the H2 men. The ones who stayed spread towards South Asia.

arithmatic
05-22-2018, 02:19 PM
One more update.. I found a H-Z4417s in Azerbaijan in y-full and Georgia in 23andme who seem to have distant relationship with me. This tells me that whatever research people have shared out there on H haplotype is completely inaccurate. People have made conclusions based on a very small sample size and assumed that H1 and H3 are only found in South Asia. As the sample size increases, the current popular understanding of the origin of H will definitely change. The funny thing is that I see close relatives who are R2 in 23andme (who are obviously from South Asia) and distant relatives who are R2 who live in US but are originally from Eastern Europe (they are white with mtDNA H). My guess is that H and R2 originated somewhere in South Caucasus, Northern Iran some 10k years ago and then migrated to Central Asia. A big population from Central Asia then migrated to South Asia some 5k years ago or more which is why we see R2 and H in South Asia now.

Paul333
05-22-2018, 05:15 PM
I also feel confused regarding the Y H haplogroup. I am H2 and the information regarding this is that it reached/presumed to of reached Europe as Early as 10,000 years ago, (see Maciamo map of early Europe Haplogroups, Eupedia.com ).

I am trying to find how it got to Northern England and Scotland.

As Today Y H2 is found in North & West Europe, and I think it may of come into Britian from these area's. The most I have found together, is in Sweden, where 'three separate' families of Y H2 are located, and have individual documented paternal lines traced back to the early 1600s and 1700s, and most likely beyond, and therefore it seems that Y H2 may also have entered Scandinavia, at the same time, and alongside the same associated Haplogroups shown on the Manciamo Eupedia map, as Mesolithic Scandinavians ie, I*,I1, I2a,I2a1,I2a2,I2c. despite showing both C1a2 and H2, dissapearing on entering Scandinavia/Sweden.

I myself had an earlier test with 17 Y STR's but could not identify my Y haplogroup. I then found the Whit Athey Haplogroup predictor, it did not have a 'H' Haplogroup. I entered my 17 STR reference numbers,using North West Europe, and the highest predictions showed 39.4% probability,I2a and Highest fitness at 16 was also I2a. Using the Northwest Europe Whit Athey predictor, with the Y-H Haplogroup included, it shows probability 0.0% for haplogroup H, and fitness score is only 5 for Haplogroup H. Using the same 17 STR markers in equal priors with the Whit Athey predictor it predicts Highest probability 44.0% haplogroup,'N', and highest fitness score 'Q' at 34, Haplogroup H again probability 0.0%, fitness score only 5.

It is confusing as it seems Y H2, is more connected with the the early arrivals in Europe, and may not be associated with H1 and H3, as a lot of the information about Y H2 is unknown, even Living Dna, who I tested with, and designated my Haplogroup are not sure about H2, as they admit they gave me the wrong 'Y' write up, giving me the Indian History of H1 and H3 etc,which may not be correct, I am still awaiting their update/correction.

vettor
05-22-2018, 06:11 PM
Hi everyone, not posted on this forum in a long time but I wanted to give you all an update on things.

For you who may not know me, I am Donald Locke, Admin of the Y Haplogroup H project through FTDNA. The H* tree has been pretty stagnate for the last decade, but that is rapidly changing and in a hurry thanks to Y Haplo H participants having ordered the Big Y test over the last year or so which is really helping expand the H tree like I haven't seen happen over the last decade which is pretty exciting.

I just completed my Big Y test, I am of British Romanichal ancestry and I was tested positive for a newly identified downsteam of M82 known as H-SK1225.
Another Rom of Moldova had completed his Big Y back on November of 2017 and he too has tested positive for SK1225 though FTDNA does not show either of us in SK1225 as of yet, why I do not know.

H2 formerly known as F3 has made very good progress thanks to those participants ordering the Big Y test, so the H2 tree is expanding in positive ways.

Because of the advancements made in the Y Haplo H tree over the last year, the Y Haplo H project is now seeking donations to help pay for free Big Y tests.
The first participant to get a free Big Y test will be a British Romanichal of the Boswell surname who has already agreed to accept a free Big Y test once the funds become available. Boswell is an important Romanichal family surname in the fact this his is one of the oldest, largest and more well known of the British Romanichal family surnames of the UK.

And if the project can obtain more donations, I will be randomly choosing H participants whom have tested at least 67 markers from various regions, South Asia, Middle East, Indonesia to see if they will accept a free Big Y test as well to get as many H* participants Big Y tested as possible.
I was once told by someone from the FTDNA help desk that they did not recommend Y Haplo H* participants ordering the Big Y test, but they did not give me a reason for why they thought that. But regardless of what one person at FTDNA thought, H* participants have been ordering the Big Y test anyway and the H tree has expanded like I have not seen happen over the last decade which is really exciting.

So here I am updating you all on some of the progress the H tree has made, and I truly believe that we can make a big difference by having even more
H* men Big Y tested and that is where we need help, finding the funding to help pay for free Big Y testing.

There are currently 22 H* men being listed as Test Pending for the Y-500 and exactly what will be learned through that Y-500 study is totally unknown to me, but I am looking forward to what FTDNA can come up with.

I was once H* ..........but went to Genbank via Ian Logan and was recorded by Genbank as H95a ..................can you not ask these H* people to do similar

thejkhan
05-22-2018, 10:32 PM
One more update.. I found a H-Z4417s in Azerbaijan in y-full and Georgia in 23andme who seem to have distant relationship with me. This tells me that whatever research people have shared out there on H haplotype is completely inaccurate. People have made conclusions based on a very small sample size and assumed that H1 and H3 are only found in South Asia. As the sample size increases, the current popular understanding of the origin of H will definitely change. The funny thing is that I see close relatives who are R2 in 23andme (who are obviously from South Asia) and distant relatives who are R2 who live in US but are originally from Eastern Europe (they are white with mtDNA H). My guess is that H and R2 originated somewhere in South Caucasus, Northern Iran some 10k years ago and then migrated to Central Asia. A big population from Central Asia then migrated to South Asia some 5k years ago or more which is why we see R2 and H in South Asia now.

FYI, there is also another Saudi H-Z4417 sample (ftdna). The Azeri you mentioned and the Saudi share the same subclade within H-Z4417.
You sure the Georgian is H-Z4417? Last time I checked, 23andMe assigns H-M69 to all H-M52 (xM82).

---

In yfull tree for y-HG H, at the top level there is only two subclades of H: H1 and H2.

Current H1 and H3 share a common mutation and should be reclassified as H1a and H1b respectively.

It does seem during the Palaeolithic, H1 was mostly confined to South Asia (whereas H2 in Near East & Europe).

However it's reasonable to assume that as H1 spread out towards Central Asia, Middle East and South East Asia over thousands of years, there would be subclades specific to those regions.

Paul333
05-22-2018, 10:34 PM
I was once H* ..........but went to Genbank via Ian Logan and was recorded by Genbank as H95a ..................can you not ask these H* people to do similar

Hi Vettor,
Regarding your H95a this seems to be your mtdna, we are concerning the Y H dna.

thejkhan
05-22-2018, 10:37 PM
(deleted)

Paul333
05-22-2018, 10:46 PM
FYI, there is also another Saudi H-Z4417 sample. I would assume the Azeri and the Saudi share a single subclade within H-Z4417.
You sure the Georgian is H-Z4417? Last time I checked, 23andMe assigns H-M69 to all H-M52 (xM82).

---

In yfull tree for y-HG H, at the top level there is only two subclades of H: H1 and H2.

Current H1 and H3 share a common mutation and should be reclassified as H1a and H1b respectively.

It does seem during the Palaeolithic, H1 was mostly confined to South Asia (whereas H2 in Near East & Europe).

However it's reasonable to assume that as H1 spread out towards Central Asia, Middle East and South East Asia over thousands of years, there would be subclades specific to those regions.

That seems a better understanding, as for Y H2 against Y H1 & Y H3,, there are clear differences as FTDNA Y H Haplogroup is showing, via STR, references DYS 385a and DYS 385b, nearly all Y- H2 is showing mostly 12 & 13,( as are my own ) whereas Y,H1, & Y,H3, are showing significantly higher values such as 14/15 & 17/18, for the same.

bmoney
05-23-2018, 12:50 AM
H is a very old haplogroup. It was found in Neolithic Europe and Anatolia among EEFs but in South Asia it has different origins. I would associate it with Iran-Neo admixture but without ancient dna from South Asia we don't know.

It hasnt been found in the SW Iran Neolithic so far.

R2 seems to have the strongest link with Iran_N (Ganj Dareh)

Eurogenes:
Iran_Mesolithic (Hotu Cave)

I1293: J(xJ2a1b3, J2b2a1a1)

Iran_N

I1945: P1(xQ, R1b1a2, R1a1a1b1a1b, R1a1a1b1a3a, R1a1a1b2a2a) (probably R2)

I1949: CT

Iran_LN

I1671: G2a1(xG2a1a)

Iran_ChL (Chalcolithic Iran)

I1662: J(xJ1a, J2a1, J2b)
I1674: G1a(xG1a1

From Narasimhan:

I1947 R2 R2a Ganj_Dareh_N 8210-7845 calBCE (8860±30 BP, Beta-432800) Iran
I1954 R2 R2a Ganj_Dareh_N 8330-8255 calBCE (9000±40 BP, Beta-436170) Iran
I7527 U7a .. Ganj_Dareh_N 8200-7700 BCE Iran
I1946 .. R2a Ganj_Dareh_N_father.of.I1947_father.of.I1952 8250-7850 BCE Iran
I1952 R R2a Ganj_Dareh_N_son.of.I1946_brother.of.I1947 8219-7761 calBCE Iran

H1a and F seem to have the strongest presence in peninsular India and Sri Lanka in terms of a region which would associate both or one of them with the AASI

ssamlal
05-23-2018, 01:36 AM
YFull resolved my Y-Haplogroup down to H-Z34739* and added my YFull ID (YF13031) to YTree v6.02

Path: H > H-M2826 > H-M69 > H-Z5867 > H-Z14258 > H-Z14308 > H-Z34739

My current SNP matches on YFull. @BMG helped me locate info for the ERR Ids (on genbank) but no luck with the ERS Id (so far).

23352

FTDNA resolves me to H-PH830

23353

ssamlal
05-25-2018, 01:22 AM
YFull resolved my Y-Haplogroup down to H-Z34739* and added my YFull ID (YF13031) to YTree v6.02

Path: H > H-M2826 > H-M69 > H-Z5867 > H-Z14258 > H-Z14308 > H-Z34739

My current SNP matches on YFull. @BMG helped me locate info for the ERR Ids (on genbank) but no luck with the ERS Id (so far).

23352

FTDNA resolves me to H-PH830

23353

Wow, 2 days later and I have a new terminal Y-Haplogroup on YFull (H-Y61050) and only one match now (to the Punjabi Hindu):

23417

Donald Locke
06-02-2018, 03:42 PM
Update from my last posting.

Myself and one other Rrom DNA participant had previously been placed in H-SK1225, but have since been moved in to a newly identified subclade, H-PH124.
A 3rd Rrom Big Y test has just posted his SNP and he too has been placed in H-PH124, his Big Y results are not fully reported just yet, but his SNP has been posted.
That makes 3 for 3 Rrom Big Y participants now placed in H-PH124.

Paul333
06-16-2018, 09:46 PM
I am Y H2, but have the positive SNP M9313,from Living DNA raw data, and I understand and have been informed, this is a marker for the H2a1 subclade. It is on the Y full tree,under H2a1, but not yet confirmed as it is still shaded. I asked livingDNA last Saturday to confirm this but they have not replied. Any information regarding this extra subclade out there, or any age range, or time of origin known.

Paul333
08-07-2018, 10:39 PM
I am Y H2, but have the positive SNP M9313,from Living DNA raw data, and I understand and have been informed, this is a marker for the H2a1 subclade. It is on the Y full tree,under H2a1, but not yet confirmed as it is still shaded. I asked livingDNA last Saturday to confirm this but they have not replied. Any information regarding this extra subclade out there, or any age range, or time of origin known.

I have now updated to my new Y H2a1,subclade. I checked on the SNP Index today, and M 9313 is now indicating the Y 'H2a1' haplogroup,

Critchmeister78
08-08-2018, 04:53 PM
Hi Paul, I have tested positive for y DNA H2 P96 as well in the South West of England. I too am interested in learning more about this unusual haplogroup. There seems to be very little information about this in Europe but I am sure that as more people take Y tests there may be a better understanding if it.

Paul333
08-09-2018, 07:40 AM
Hi Paul, I have tested positive for y DNA H2 P96 as well in the South West of England. I too am interested in learning more about this unusual haplogroup. There seems to be very little information about this in Europe but I am sure that as more people take Y tests there may be a better understanding if it.

Hi Critchmeister78,
Well that makes three of us confirmed in the UK up to what I know, Im waiting for 23 & Me Ancestry results, so there might be a bit more information hopefully. Its a bit rare in Europe, as it was believed to of been extinct, etc. Check your raw data, to see if you have the SNP M9313, that is indicating a further subclade, H2a1, both myself and the other Picto22 on this Forum have it. It is confusing as it is shown as very early in Europe, which would suggest Hunter gatherer, then it is described as coming with the early Farmers. EEF., I think it may change as it seems there are two groups in Y H2. Everything about it is confusing at the moment, but it was changed and re-assigned from Y F3 etc, so it may get changed again as some people believe.

morganman3
08-09-2018, 07:25 PM
Hi Critchmeister78,
Well that makes three of us confirmed in the UK up to what I know, Im waiting for 23 & Me Ancestry results, so there might be a bit more information hopefully. Its a bit rare in Europe, as it was believed to of been extinct, etc. Check your raw data, to see if you have the SNP M9313, that is indicating a further subclade, H2a1, both myself and the other Picto22 on this Forum have it. It is confusing as it is shown as very early in Europe, which would suggest Hunter gatherer, then it is described as coming with the early Farmers. EEF., I think it may change as it seems there are two groups in Y H2. Everything about it is confusing at the moment, but it was changed and re-assigned from Y F3 etc, so it may get changed again as some people believe.

With myself being haplogroup G2a, H2 comes up in quite a few of the spots G2a is located in ancient DNA sites, so I am somewhat familiar with it. The Wikipedia page for H2 does a good job in tracking all the occurrences, and a clear pattern with the Neolithic farmers is evident in my opinion.

Quickly looking at ftdna, I found around 26 occurrences of H2, including a surname which I would assume belongs to Critchmeister78.
Here is the breakdown according to surname:

5 from Armenia/Armenian heritage
2 from South West Asia (UAE/Bahrain)
1 Assyrian

4 from Sweden
1 from Poland
1 from Ukraine
1 from France (Alsace)
1 from Switzerland (Anglicized name)
1 from Mexico (Spanish name)

9 British Isles surnames
-Mix of Norman, Anglo Saxon and native names

The fact that there is a mix between Europe and West Asia makes it more likely that it entered Europe during the Neolithic than earlier, unless there was some back migration.

Paul333
08-09-2018, 11:10 PM
Hi Morganman3,
I looked on the FTDNA Y H site today and found only two Y H2 P96 in the UK, but i'm not sure if they are living, or are ancestral, at the moment and therefore the only evidence of living males with H2 P96 in the Uk is three, and they are on this site/forum.

The information regarding the origins are confusing, Y H2-P96, Has been stated as one of the Earliest European paternal Haplogroups, preceeding the introduction of Farming.

Eupedia has a map showing Y H2 spread throughout Mesolithic Europe, 9,000 years ago ( Eupedia Map Nov 2015, by Maciamo Hay )

Y, H2-P96, is also associated with Haplogroups C1a, and many, mainly groups of 'Y' I, including I*, I1,and I2, I2a, I2a2, etc which are associated with Northern and Central Europeans etc. ( Maciamo Hay on Eupedia Oct 2016 ) Maciamo also informs that many of the First migration of Homo Sapiens to Europe brought 'old' Haplogroups such as C-V20 and ' H2 P-96' linked to the Aurignacian Culture some 43-33,000 years ago. This is causing a problem with Y H-96 because it is associated with the first Human migration to Europe, seemingly older than haplogroup 'I' which as I understand is the oldest stated original European Haplogroup. It is also associated with Middle Eastern, later farmers entering Europe through Anatolia etc ,during Neolithic.

It has to be one or the other, the Neolithic branch is more associated with the Y G2a Haplogroup etc, but on the Mesolithic map there is none associated, what happened to them ( G2a ). It is confusing but I think subclades may seperate Y 'H2-P96' into further groupings, and this may offer some explanation. It certainly splits the group up on FtDNA recently. It is a confusing situation but we will just have to wait for more. investigations.

thejkhan
08-10-2018, 01:37 AM
It has to be one or the other,

Not necessarily - could it be that there are subclades of H2 that are solely associated with the earlier presence in Europe and other subclades that were brought by Neolithic migrations from West Asia? Something to investigate for anyone interested in history of H2.

morganman3
08-10-2018, 12:12 PM
Hi Morganman3,
I looked on the FTDNA Y H site today and found only two Y H2 P96 in the UK, but i'm not sure if they are living, or are ancestral, at the moment and therefore the only evidence of living males with H2 P96 in the Uk is three, and they are on this site/forum.

The information regarding the origins are confusing, Y H2-P96, Has been stated as one of the Earliest European paternal Haplogroups, preceeding the introduction of Farming.

Eupedia has a map showing Y H2 spread throughout Mesolithic Europe, 9,000 years ago ( Eupedia Map Nov 2015, by Maciamo Hay )

Y, H2-P96, is also associated with Haplogroups C1a, and many, mainly groups of 'Y' I, including I*, I1,and I2, I2a, I2a2, etc which are associated with Northern and Central Europeans etc. ( Maciamo Hay on Eupedia Oct 2016 ) Maciamo also informs that many of the First migration of Homo Sapiens to Europe brought 'old' Haplogroups such as C-V20 and ' H2 P-96' linked to the Aurignacian Culture some 43-33,000 years ago. This is causing a problem with Y H-96 because it is associated with the first Human migration to Europe, seemingly older than haplogroup 'I' which as I understand is the oldest stated original European Haplogroup. It is also associated with Middle Eastern, later farmers entering Europe through Anatolia etc ,during Neolithic.

It has to be one or the other, the Neolithic branch is more associated with the Y G2a Haplogroup etc, but on the Mesolithic map there is none associated, what happened to them ( G2a ). It is confusing but I think subclades may seperate Y 'H2-P96' into further groupings, and this may offer some explanation. It certainly splits the group up on FtDNA recently. It is a confusing situation but we will just have to wait for more. investigations.

If you check the "H Haplo Group Project" on ftdna (I can't link it) there are 7 people who are listed as having British Isles surnames as well as H2. As mentioned in my previous post, there seems to be a good mix of Norman, Saxon and English/Patronymic names too. It seems like some members of H2 are not located on the project, because I also found 2 more people with British Isles patrilineages on the website using Google, thus creating a total of 9. There are 4 people having their earliest ancestor in Europe, and five having it in North America/Unknown. A couple of the members I just mentioned are active on the activity feed, so I assume (and hope) they are alive!

In terms of other sites, yfull perhaps contains some separate cases, but a lot of them seem to match with the people on ftdna, as well as the 2 Sardinians from a recent study (Francalacci et al. 2015). There is also an incdience for H-P96 with a Mizrahi Jew on JewishDNA.

At the moment, its tough to say whether it was present in Europe before the Neolithic because it hasn't been identified in any ancient samples during that time. It's clear looking at it's rarity and lack of concentration that it had no clear founding effect, and that would complicate coming up with a good hypothesis for it. I don't know how someone can make a good claim for an earlier entry when there is currently no evidence to link it with such a time period. More ancient samples would help solve this. However, looking at the samples we do have, there is a an emerging pattern for H2; starting with Israel and PPNB, going through Turkey with G2a and the EEF, through South Eastern and Central Europe, and eventually reaching Spain and Western Europe by 3500BC. Pretty much following the spread of agriculture and farming into Europe.

I guess with more information and testing it will become much clearer in the future. There really isn't much to go on at this point.

Paul333
08-10-2018, 02:13 PM
Hi Morganman3
There is a few Y H2 P96,s around globally but Im trying to unlock the confusion in Europe. The Y H haplogroup in Europe was mainly associated and seen to be of Romany origin H1a etc, spread over the last 1500 years, in Europe, moving from the Indian area, and is very different to the Y H2 subclade.

I think there was ancient Y H2 in the ancient Iranian area's (of fertile cresent origin of the early farmers ) and this may be the reason for a Jewish person there today, as it was believed to of left that area onwards to Anatolia to Iberia and Europe, from there so this is on route, and one origin noted.

The problem with my specific Y H2 P96, is that there were ancient Y H2 haplogroups also found in Ancient remains closer to Britain, some found up to 7,500 years ago, but assigned to the wrong haplogroups previously F F3 etc. Were these actual Farmers or older Hunter Gatherers? are these people descended from ancient Ice age surviving Hunter Gatherers, or new Farmer migrations ??

There is now a significant few found throughout Central, Western, and the Iberian area's of Europe, anciently. Are these, associated with early European migatory Haplogroups, long before farmers evolved or arrived, most notably in the Saxony-Anhalt areas of Modern Germany and central Europe.

I think it may well be this branch that came to the UK,as there seems to be an early connection with Mesolithic and earlier. There is also a small percentage found today in modern Sweden, tracing back beyond the 1650s in some cases. if we could identify the subclades it would help. Having now identified a further subclade of Y H2a1, this will no doubt help, as there seems only two of us in UK who have this, and by alphabetical process this must be one of the earliest.

Y H2 was associated with similarities with the modern Sardinian populations but recently some of the Y H2 there presented problems I think there was a group of seven but some of these where proved not to be Y H2

This is my understanding from what evidence I have come across from browsing the internet etc, and forums such as these,to date , but wether you can trust this is another matter.

Regarding linking it with Early European, Maciamo Hay, in Ancient British DNA wrote an article ( Oct 2016 ) regarding the Y H2 P-96 being found in very early migration in Europe, even associated with one of the first Homo-Sapiens associated with migration into Europe, and he is one of the most knowledgeable people regarding DNA haplogroup origins, so I would have to add weight to his opinions regarding Y H2 P-96.

There is also to consider a Black sea connection with Y H2, through the Bug, Dniester river area cultures following the Danube etc, possibly associated with early farmers, and even Hungarian Bell Beakers Have been found with Y H2. It is all over the place

morganman3
08-10-2018, 03:01 PM
Hi Morganman3
There is a few Y H2 P96,s around globally but Im trying to unlock the confusion in Europe. The Y H haplogroup in Europe was mainly seen to be of Romany origin H1a etc, spread over the last 1500 years in Europe, moving from the Indian area. I think there was ancient Y H2 in the ancient Iran area's ( fertile cresent origin of the early farmers ) and this may be the reason for a Jewish person there today.

The problem with my specific Y H2, is that there were Y H2 found in Ancient Germany 7,500 years ago etc in a few places of ,Europe most in the Saxony-Anhalt areas of central Europe, and I think it may well be this branch that came to the UK. Having now identified a subclade of Y H2a1, will no doubt help, as there seems only two of us in UK who have this.

I think the ancient sample you are referring to is the one I mentioned in Motza, Israel.
You seem to quote Maciamo from Eupedia a lot, so here is what he says about this finding when talking about the Neolithic farmers:

"I do expect to find G2a among Early Farmers further north though, either in Syria or southern Turkey. They had to come from somewhere, and it is extremely unlikely that cereal farming spread almost exclusively through diffusion from the southern Levant to Anatolia while it spread almost exclusively by migration from Anatolia to all Europe. That wouldn't make any sense. Anyway it is sure that some T and H2 people were among the predominantly G2a Early European Farmers, but it's somewhat odd that only one T and no E-M123 have been found in Neolithic Europe or Anatolia to date. H2 looks like the strongest unifier of Near Eastern and European Neolithic people, which makes even less sense as it is almost extinct everywhere today. "

I don't want to list the surnames, but there are 9 separate cases on FTDNA with ancestry from the UK, so it isn't just you guys on here who have it. You may very well have the same surname as one of the names on FTDNA, just like I suspect Critchmeister78 has from looking at his username. Join the project if you can.

Ebizur
08-10-2018, 03:08 PM
The problem with my specific Y H2, is that there were Y H2 found in Ancient Germany 7,500 years ago etc in a few places of ,Europe most in the Saxony-Anhalt areas of central Europe, and I think it may well be this branch that came to the UK. Having now identified a subclade of Y H2a1, will no doubt help, as there seems only two of us in UK who have this.Have you seen any evidence that would support a hypothesis that your Y-DNA H2a1 lineage has come to the UK from an area that is now part of Germany, or is it just a hunch of yours?

According to YFull, the C-V20* lineage of the La Braña specimen from Mesolithic northwestern Spain is basal to a clade that includes a branch found in an Armenian and an Algerian in addition to the branch found in modern Europeans. It estimates that the TMRCA of the La Braña lineage with these extant members of C-V20 is approximately 43,100 [95% CI 39,000 <-> 47,400] years before present. The Mesolithic La Braña specimen and modern Spaniards in C-Y10475 may not share a common patrilineal ancestor since the initial spread of people belonging to haplogroup C1-F3393, and perhaps since the initial spread of anatomically modern humans in Europe.

Something similar may be said about the case of the IR1 specimen from the Iron Age Mezőcsát Culture in what is now Hungary. His N2(xP189.2) lineage may be more closely related to the lineages of a modern Altaian, an individual from the aeneolithic Botai culture of the steppe in what is now northern Kazakhstan, and an individual from the "early neolithic" (focused on fishing, hunting, and gathering, but also making use of ceramics) Kitoi culture of the vicinity of Lake Baikal than it is related to the N2a-P189.2 lineages of extant Europeans.

Likewise, haplogroup H2-P96 has a very ancient formed date (46,500 [95% CI 43,800 <-> 49,200] ybp), so the finding of members of haplogroup H2 in Neolithic sites in Germany (or anywhere else for that matter) is not strong evidence for an origin of the direct ancestor of any modern member of haplogroup H2 in that same region. The discovery of a specimen that shares a more recent SNP would be more significant.

Paul333
08-10-2018, 04:01 PM
Have you seen any evidence that would support a hypothesis that your Y-DNA H2a1 lineage has come to the UK from an area that is now part of Germany, or is it just a hunch of yours?

According to YFull, the C-V20* lineage of the La Braña specimen from Mesolithic northwestern Spain is basal to a clade that includes a branch found in an Armenian and an Algerian in addition to the branch found in modern Europeans. It estimates that the TMRCA of the La Braña lineage with these extant members of C-V20 is approximately 43,100 [95% CI 39,000 <-> 47,400] years before present. The Mesolithic La Braña specimen and modern Spaniards in C-Y10475 may not share a common patrilineal ancestor since the initial spread of people belonging to haplogroup C1-F3393, and perhaps since the initial spread of anatomically modern humans in Europe.

Something similar may be said about the case of the IR1 specimen from the Iron Age Mezőcsát Culture in what is now Hungary. His N2(xP189.2) lineage may be more closely related to the lineages of a modern Altaian, an individual from the aeneolithic Botai culture of the steppe in what is now northern Kazakhstan, and an individual from the "early neolithic" (focused on fishing, hunting, and gathering, but also making use of ceramics) Kitoi culture of the vicinity of Lake Baikal than it is related to the N2a-P189.2 lineages of extant Europeans.

Likewise, haplogroup H2-P96 has a very ancient formed date (46,500 [95% CI 43,800 <-> 49,200] ybp), so the finding of members of haplogroup H2 in Neolithic sites in Germany (or anywhere else for that matter) is not strong evidence for an origin of the direct ancestor of any modern member of haplogroup H2 in that same region. The discovery of a specimen that shares a more recent SNP would be more significant.

As you will probably be aware I am new to genetics and I am learning or trying to. The reason I am associating my Y H2 Haplogroup with coming from Europe is the Landbridge before Britain was cut off,and the evidence from my Autosomal genetic results,indicating 100% European, and 100% British, and some confirmed raw data indications that link my Y Dna to Finland/Sweden and Bearing sea areas of Russia. As Central Europe would of spread quite wide it would not be too difficult for the same 'Western Mesolithic Europeans' or Central Europeans such as those from Derensteig, Herxheim, Goseck etc, to of travelled further West in Europe across the Land bridge around the same period ie 7000 BC, and the closest ancient Y H2 to Britain, is these people that are possibly the most obvious answer, untill the SNPs are identified and localised.

The one thing I have noticed regarding FTDNA Y-H project, is the differences of the Y H2 SNP references, many are different to my raw Data positive SNPs.

The P-96, members grouped all have the low STR markers for DYS385 at 12-13, as I also have. The Armenian has lower markers of 11-11, and the Turkey entry under the same is unconfirmed at F-M89 with 9-11. ( I assume the unkown and American listings in the P-96 grouping on FtDNA Y H2 are of European Descent, if so this would be a further connection that may be revelant to an origin. )

There definitely seems to be at least two separate groups within Y H2, that evolved very differently. One with a Early European background, and one with an Asian/Indian background orientation.

Paul333
08-12-2018, 04:12 PM
I don't want to list the surnames, but there are 9 separate cases on FTDNA with ancestry from the UK, so it isn't just you guys on here who have it. You may very well have the same surname as one of the names on FTDNA, just like I suspect Critchmeister78 has from looking at his username. Join the project if you can.

The problem with Surnames, and your connection with associating critchmeister78 with another, is there is no connection they are related, one seemingly is from UK, one is in America. The origins in America are probably due to modern recent immigration over the last three hundred years or so, and therefore they are not relevant.

Surnames are a risk factor, I myself have a Norse/Anglo Saxon origin paternal surname, which is found mostly in the Northern English area's of Yorkshire, since the 1300,s, but my Living DNA Autosomal family results have none in this area,despite my Family, Paper History, and Surname, being heavily researched, recorded,assigned and documented from this area, for many hundreds of years.

On FTDNA projects including my own Surname,not one of the Surname's, or spelling variants of my own surname, have any of my Y H2a1 Haplogroup, despite being from the same area of my paternal families origins.

DNA is a far more accurate process, and removes any risk, it has been accepted as a more reliable method of ones ancestry, and cannot be disputed, unless in exceptional circumstances.

morganman3
08-13-2018, 02:28 PM
The problem with Surnames, and your connection with associating critchmeister78 with another, is there is no connection they are related, one seemingly is from UK, one is in America. The origins in America are probably due to modern recent immigration over the last three hundred years or so, and therefore they are not relevant.

Surnames are a risk factor, I myself have a Norse/Anglo Saxon origin paternal surname, which is found mostly in the Northern English area's of Yorkshire, since the 1300,s, but my Living DNA Autosomal family results have none in this area,despite my Family, Paper History, and Surname, being heavily researched, recorded,assigned and documented from this area, for many hundreds of years.

On FTDNA projects including my own Surname,not one of the Surname's, or spelling variants of my own surname, have any of my Y H2a1 Haplogroup, despite being from the same area of my paternal families origins.

DNA is a far more accurate process, and removes any risk, it has been accepted as a more reliable method of ones ancestry, and cannot be disputed, unless in exceptional circumstances.

There is a reason why FTDNA asks for the user's last known ancestor, and surnames are a pretty accurate way of knowing someone's paternal line. Of course they aren't 100% accurate all the time in terms of denoting the original paternal haplogroup, as non-paternity events and surname changes occur over time. That's why surname projects exist to see if people with the same last name contain common genetic heritage or not. Obviously surnames which are rare and unique are going to contain a smaller amount of different haplogroups than say a surname like "Smith" or "Jones" which will contain hundreds of different haplogroups and mutations.

Because H-P96 is very rare today, it would seem a huge coincidence that Critchmeister78 and another person with a similar surname are unrelated and don't have family ties. It is more likely these two people had a common ancestor hundreds of years ago, and that's why they have the same haplogroup and surname. Locational surnames (which this one seems to be) are more likely from my experience to see greater homogeneity in haplogroups, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are some other haplogroups associated with this name as well due to the rarity of H-P96.

Because of the lack of information regarding your haplogroup it's impossible to tell, even with you knowing your own surname, how it originally came to the UK whatever the origin of your surname is. I keep saying that, of the names that are indigenous to the British Isles, there is a mix, some Norman, some patronymic, some Saxon etc. etc. There is no pattern to how it originally got to you and the other members of the project. At the moment it just seems to have a farily even spread across Europe and West Asia.

You should really sign up for the project.

Paul333
08-14-2018, 10:05 AM
As you will probably be aware I am new to genetics and I am learning or trying to. The reason I am associating my Y H2 Haplogroup with coming from Europe is the Landbridge before Britain was cut off,and the evidence from my Autosomal genetic results,indicating 100% European, and 100% British, and some confirmed raw data indications that link my Y Dna to Finland/Sweden and Bearing sea areas of Russia. As Central Europe would of spread quite wide it would not be too difficult for the same 'Western Mesolithic Europeans' or Central Europeans such as those from Derenburg/Meerenstieg, Herxheim, Goseck etc, to of travelled further West in Europe across the Land bridge around the same period ie 7000 BC, and the closest ancient Y H2 to Britain, is these people that are possibly the most obvious answer, untill the SNPs are identified and localised.

The one thing I have noticed regarding FTDNA Y-H project, is the differences of the Y H2 SNP references, many are different to my raw Data positive SNPs.

The P-96, members grouped all have the low STR markers for DYS385 at 12-13, as I also have. The Armenian has lower markers of 11-11, and the Turkey entry under the same is unconfirmed at F-M89 with 9-11. ( I assume the unkown and American listings in the P-96 grouping on FtDNA Y H2 are of European Descent, if so this would be a further connection that may be revelant to an origin. )

There definitely seems to be at least two separate groups within Y H2, that evolved very differently. One with a Early European background, and one with an Asian/Indian background orientation.

Just corrected the entry for Derensteig, to correctly identify the findings from the Derenburg/Meerenstieg area, of Anhalt-Saxony.

Paul333
08-14-2018, 10:34 AM
Not necessarily - could it be that there are subclades of H2 that are solely associated with the earlier presence in Europe and other subclades that were brought by Neolithic migrations from West Asia? Something to investigate for anyone interested in history of H2.

Regarding the seemingly differences in Y H2 P-96, from Y H1 & YH3, ie European v Asian. ( Y H1 & Y H3, were not found anciently in Europe ). As there is also a dissapearance of 'I ' and 'I1' ( highlighted in discussion on the Eupedia forums today )in Scandinavian Mesolithic, alongside Y 'H2' but they both were believed to of been in Central Europe very early. ( Maciamo Hay Mesolithic 'Y' map 2015 ).

Although Y H2 has a very small appearance, it is still found in Scandinavia today, and recorded as ancestral to Sweden back to the 1600s, although it seems Y'I' and Y 'I1' subclades took off in this area,( Scandinavia ) and is today up to 20% of the Y population in Europe, Y'H2' has also been identified today in this area, albeit in minute numbers, and therefore it should not be dissmissed completely, as not being there anciently.

In simple terms Y 'H' is Alphabetically before Y'I' and Y 'I1', then simply 'H',P96, may be the older European of the two, and as there is a great deal of confusion regarding both Y 'I' and Y 'H2', could Y 'I' be descended directly from Y 'H2' in Europe, . Maciamo refers to both Y 'H2' and Y 'I' and its subclades in Mesolithic Central Europeans c 9000-7000 BCE, and in LBK culture, but both are not found further North, are they more connected than believed.

I do not understand much of what 'Y' or 'MtDNa' is about at the moment but 'Y' H2 is causing problems with its main identification, as before. Hopefully somebody will correct me and prove this theory is incorrect.

thejkhan
08-15-2018, 01:49 AM
In simple terms Y 'H' is Alphabetically before Y'I' and Y 'I1', then simply 'H',P96, may be the older European of the two, and as there is a great deal of confusion regarding both Y 'I' and Y 'H2', could Y 'I' be descended directly from Y 'H2' in Europe, . Maciamo refers to both Y 'H2' and Y 'I' and its subclades in Mesolithic Central Europeans c 9000-7000 BCE, and in LBK culture, but both are not found further North, are they more connected than believed.

I do not understand much of what 'Y' or 'MtDNa' is about at the moment but 'Y' H2 is causing problems with its main identification, as before. Hopefully somebody will correct me and prove this theory is incorrect.

I and H2 cannot be descended from each other as they are separate branches of the Y-dna tree.
Here's how the branching happened:

There used to be 1 haplogroup called GHIJK somewhere in West Asia (most likely).

GHIJK first branched off into G and HIJK.
HIJK becomes H and IJK.
IJK becomes K and IJ.
IJ turns into I in Europe and J in West Asia.


As you can see, H branched off from HIJK which means J and K are more closely related to I than H is.


What may be common between H2, I* and I1 is a shared demographic history. Imagine a scenario in which separate groups carrying one of these haplo merged to form a new population consisting of both H2 and I1 -- so wherever this group went, it took both H2 and I1 with it -- wherever they did not go, H2 and I1 would not be found. This could explain why they are connected like you (or Eupedia forumers) have observed.

Paul333
08-15-2018, 09:33 AM
I and H2 cannot be descended from each other as they are separate branches of the Y-dna tree.
Here's how the branching happened:

There used to be 1 haplogroup called GHIJK somewhere in West Asia (most likely).

GHIJK first branched off into G and HIJK.
HIJK becomes H and IJK.
IJK becomes K and IJ.
IJ turns into I in Europe and J in West Asia.


As you can see, H branched off from HIJK which means J and K are more closely related to I than H is.


What may be common between H2, I* and I1 is a shared demographic history. Imagine a scenario in which separate groups carrying one of these haplo merged to form a new population consisting of both H2 and I1 -- so wherever this group went, it took both H2 and I1 with it -- wherever they did not go, H2 and I1 would not be found. This could explain why they are connected like you (or Eupedia forumers) have observed.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Genetics are certianly confusing me still, but I'm now a little bit more or less unconfused with my Y H2 knowledge.

Saad2016
09-16-2018, 01:17 AM
Got my Y -DNA . Its a branch of H called O-Z34492. My question is how is O originating from H. Should not all H subclaudes be starting with H?

https://i.gyazo.com/3d3391fcb842bf64f7b117ad1634eb47.png

thejkhan
09-17-2018, 12:33 AM
Got my Y -DNA . Its a branch of H called O-Z34492. My question is how is O originating from H. Should not all H subclaudes be starting with H?


No idea why it says O.

This is what you are:

• H1a M69
• • H1a2 Z5867
• • • H1a2b Z14258
• • • • H1a2b1 Z14308
• • • • • H1a2b1b Z34492

Saad2016
09-17-2018, 01:11 AM
No idea why it says O.

This is what you are:

• H1a M69
• • H1a2 Z5867
• • • H1a2b Z14258
• • • • H1a2b1 Z14308
• • • • • H1a2b1b Z34492

Guess they made a typo . It's clear as u indicated too that is H1a2b1b Z34492. I am originally from Pakistani Punjab. Curious about your origin. Are u also from the same region?

thejkhan
09-17-2018, 01:22 AM
Guess they made a typo . It's clear as u indicated too that is H1a2b1b Z34492. I am originally from Pakistani Punjab. Curious about your origin. Are u also from the same region?

Yeah I saw that in the other thread. Great to see you guys expanding the H tree.

I am from UP (India).

Even though we're both H, our paternal lines have separated 38,800 years ago (H-M69 TMRCA). That's pretty close to the separation time of haplo I and J (~ 42,000 ybp).

Paul333
09-19-2018, 11:36 AM
As you will probably be aware I am new to genetics and I am learning or trying to. The reason I am associating my Y H2 Haplogroup with coming from Europe is the Landbridge before Britain was cut off,and the evidence from my Autosomal genetic results,indicating 100% European, and 100% British, and some confirmed raw data indications that link my Y Dna to Finland/Sweden and Bearing sea areas of Russia. As Central Europe would of spread quite wide it would not be too difficult for the same 'Western Mesolithic Europeans' or Central Europeans such as those from Derensteig, Herxheim, Goseck etc, to of travelled further West in Europe across the Land bridge around the same period ie 7000 BC, and the closest ancient Y H2 to Britain, is these people that are possibly the most obvious answer, untill the SNPs are identified and localised.

The one thing I have noticed regarding FTDNA Y-H project, is the differences of the Y H2 SNP references, many are different to my raw Data positive SNPs.

The P-96, members grouped all have the low STR markers for DYS385 at 12-13, as I also have. The Armenian has lower markers of 11-11, and the Turkey entry under the same is unconfirmed at F-M89 with 9-11. ( I assume the unkown and American listings in the P-96 grouping on FtDNA Y H2 are of European Descent, if so this would be a further connection that may be revelant to an origin. )

There definitely seems to be at least two separate groups within Y H2, that evolved very differently. One with a Early European background, and one with an Asian/Indian background orientation.

Received my 23 & Me, results yesterday, and I was very suprised to find that the raw data references above regarding, the area, indicating 'Finnish', 'Swedish' ( possibly confirming the Scandinavian element ) are supported, and confirmed, by very recent ancestor reports, showing my Great + Grandparents, were born in these area's, within the last five or six generations or so.

Critchmeister78
10-11-2018, 05:55 PM
Hi Paul,
Apologies for the delay. I'm utterly confused by it all and believe that there will be a re-classifying of the group at some stage. On my father's Paternal Grandmother was a water gypsy so this confuses me even further. My surname is Critchley but I think the guy in America showing up on the reports has the surname Critchlow? My family come from the south west and we can't date our family back to Lancashire or Staffordshire where the surname seems to originate. Might have been a non paternity event or something?

Paul333
10-11-2018, 09:51 PM
Hi Paul,
Apologies for the delay. I'm utterly confused by it all and believe that there will be a re-classifying of the group at some stage. On my father's Paternal Grandmother was a water gypsy so this confuses me even further. My surname is Critchley but I think the guy in America showing up on the reports has the surname Critchlow? My family come from the south west and we can't date our family back to Lancashire or Staffordshire where the surname seems to originate. Might have been a non paternity event or something?

Hi Critchmeister78,
I think our Haplogroup is confusing everybody, with DNA I think surnames will not be so important, as they only came generally from the post Norman period and went through many changes, and locational names are hard to pin down as they only reflect a locality, and there would be hundreds of similar names evolving over time, and completely unconnected. Your dads paternal Grandmother being a water gypsy, only meant living on the water, ie houseboat or other, and there were certianly a lot doing this as water was a main method of transporting goods, even before most of the canals were constructed in the industrial era, including those in Lancashire and Staffordshire areas. The parish records only really began in the 1580's etc, and from the 1700s there were large movements of people throughout the country, including many people from and to the southwest.

I think the American Critchlow and your Critchley could be just co-incidence, but having the same first elements, and the same, Y Haplogroup seems an obvious link of connection, although for now unproven,and unknown,and it could even be hundreds of years ago.

Since I began looking into DNA, surnames are becoming to me now less important. I have found that in the area I trace back to around late 1680s early 1700s, people recorded with my surname, and derivatives of it from that same area, have recorded different Y Haplogroup to mine, so I also have to consider a NPE, unless our haplogroup turns up there, although I have now found out that the anciently recorded male line died out, around the 1680 period. So I am confused as well ..lol

Its been quite on here for a while, but I have today down loaded my Raw Data from 23 & Me, and reading through their ancestry report description of Y H2 P96, they do say " today men carrying H P96 are mostly found in Europe", although it has been identified as far away as Kuwait". There is a problem here for me, as it cannot develop in two places, one anciently in Europe, and the other in the Indian sphere, travelling later to Europe ?. I think it may have to be changed as others also believe, and think, and it certainly seems there are two separate Y H2- P96 group origins confusingly. One early reference indicates a very early migration into Europe,that can only be Early European Hunter Gatherer, and a much later migration associated with the arrival of the first Early European Farmers ???, both groups are stated as Y H2-P96.

I think I am now Y H2a1, due to having a positive SNP for M9313, as Picto22 stated. ( I think he also tested his results further and it confirmed that having the positive SNP M9313 identifies the subclade Y H2a1 ). Y H2a1 would be a new subclade that seems to be the earlier and an older version of Y H2. The only other information regarding Y H2 people and deeper subclades are the Y H2 personal entries on the Y H, FTDNA site, many are recording H2c, or b etc, so wether this may be relevant who knows ...

Paul333
10-11-2018, 09:52 PM
double post.

Kale
01-27-2019, 10:51 PM
Regarding the seemingly differences in Y H2 P-96, from Y H1 & YH3, ie European v Asian. ( Y H1 & Y H3, were not found anciently in Europe ).

Not quite true, we have a lonesome H1b1 in Neolithic Hungary: Sample name I1903.

morganman3
01-28-2019, 02:26 AM
Not quite true, we have a lonesome H1b1 in Neolithic Hungary: Sample name I1903.

That sample has also been called as H2, which is much more likely.

Kale
01-28-2019, 02:40 AM
That sample has also been called as H2, which is much more likely.

Do you have a source on that? It seemed to be a fairly decent coverage sample so I wouldn't expect the authors to miscall it, especially when there were other H2's in the same publication.

morganman3
01-28-2019, 03:31 AM
Do you have a source on that? It seemed to be a fairly decent coverage sample so I wouldn't expect the authors to miscall it, especially when there were other H2's in the same publication.

https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/NeolithicAdmixture9_SI.pdf

28659

As far as I know, H1b has only been found in one sample, if we are going by current ISOGG. The H tree will likely undergo further change in the future, as there still seem to be some inconsistencies.

Paul333
01-28-2019, 03:04 PM
https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/NeolithicAdmixture9_SI.pdf

28659

As far as I know, H1b has only been found in one sample, if we are going by current ISOGG. The H tree will likely undergo further change in the future, as there still seem to be some inconsistencies.

Another problem is that the 2019 ISOGG H Tree, and the 'SNP Index' actually both identify, and confirm the first reference of the SNP Z14050 shown for I1903/BAL3: mentioned above, as positive for H1a2a, rather than H1b,or H1b1, more inconsistency ?.

morganman3
01-28-2019, 03:22 PM
Another problem is that the The 'SNP Index' actually identifys, and confirms the first reference of the SNP Z14050 for I1903/BAL3: above, as positive for H1a2a, rather than H1b, another inconsistency ?.

It seems they are going by ISOGG 2015 where Z14050 was for H1b1
https://isogg.org/tree/2015/ISOGG_HapgrpH15.html

An up to date paper outlining haplogroup H would be nice, as there is still a lot of confusion within the tree. The fact that the current H1b (B108) has only ever been discovered once in a sample from Myanmar raises a lot of questions.

ssamlal
08-15-2020, 09:55 PM
Wow, 2 days later and I have a new terminal Y-Haplogroup on YFull (H-Y61050) and only one match now (to the Punjabi Hindu):

23417

Another possible match (HGDP00254). He appears to be Pathan from Pakistan based on this: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707623532

38997

ssamlal
11-01-2020, 04:26 PM
Another possible match (HGDP00254). He appears to be Pathan from Pakistan based on this: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707623532

38997

YFull recently created a new branch H-Y68923, and moved ERR445278 (Punjabi Hindu) and I to this branch. HGDP00254 (Pathan from Pakistan) moved to H-Y61050*

40887

tipirneni
11-01-2020, 09:02 PM
Some Pall from Punjab H-Z14258/U2c shares big segments on my 23andme account


https://www.yfull.com/tree/H-Z14258/