View Full Version : C-M217 from the Chechen Republic?

06-06-2017, 03:59 AM
447246 Nukaev from the Chechen-Noahcho DNA Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Chechen-Noahcho?iframe=yresults) has got his Y67 results and C-M216 prediction from FTDNA.

He is also in the C Haplogroup Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Chaplogroup/default.aspx?section=yresults) in the group C2c1a1a1...M407+ (only predicted)

Looks like N113861 from the South Korea (C-M217 Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/C3?iframe=yresults)) is the nearest to him with the distance 15 at 67. N113861 is confirmed C-CTS4021.

Any thoughts about Nukaev's branch and the possible way it could come to the North-Eastern Caucasus?

06-06-2017, 02:06 PM
C-M407 occurs in Japan (https://yfull.com/tree/C-M407/) as well.

06-06-2017, 03:40 PM
cf. Boris Malyarchuk, Miroslava Derenko, Galina Denisova, Sanj Khoyt, Marcin Wozniak, Tomasz Grzybowski, and Ilya Zakharov, "Y-chromosome diversity in the Kalmyks at the ethnical and tribal levels." Journal of Human Genetics (2013) 58, 804–811.

Drwd Kalmyks
9/165 = 5.5% C-M217(xM77, M407)
55/165 = 33.3% C-M77
31/165 = 18.8% C-M407

Khoshuud Kalmyks
1/82 = 1.2% C-M217(xM77, M407)
31/82 = 37.8% C-M77

Torguud Kalmyks
16/150 = 10.7% C-M217(xM77, M407)
69/150 = 46.0% C-M77
13/150 = 8.7% C-M407

Buzawa Kalmyks
2/23 = 8.7% C-M217(xM77, M407)
9/23 = 39.1% C-M77
2/23 = 8.7% C-M407

Also cf. Boris Malyarchuk, Miroslava Derenko, Galina Denisova, Marcin Wozniak, Tomasz Grzybowski, Irina Dambueva, and Ilia Zakharov, "Phylogeography of the Y-chromosome haplogroup C in northern Eurasia." Annals of Human Genetics (2010) 74, 539–546.

9/89 = 10.1% C-M217(xM77, M407)
5/89 = 5.6% C-M77

4/44 = 9.1% C-M217(xM77, M407)
1/44 = 2.3% C-M407

Altaian Kazakhs
6/36 = 16.7% C-M217(xM77, M407)
15/36 = 41.7% C-M77

1/64 = 1.6% C-M217(xM77, M407)

1/38 = 2.6% C-M217(xM77, M407)

2/26 = 7.7% C-M77

3/108 = 2.8% C-M217(xM77, M407)
6/108 = 5.6% C-M77
3/108 = 2.8% C-M407

2/10 = 20% C-M77

15/28 = 53.6% C-M407

18/46 = 39.1% C-M217(xM77, M407)
5/46 = 10.9% C-M77
7/46 = 15.2% C-M407

18/217 = 8.3% C-M217(xM77, M407)
13/217 = 6.0% C-M77
117/217 = 53.9% C-M407

1/51 = 2.0% C-M217(xM77, M407)
27/51 = 52.9% C-M407

5/91 = 5.5% C-M217(xM77, M407)
41/91 = 45.1% C-M77
11/91 = 12.1% C-M407

1/41 = 2.4% C-M217(xM77, M407)
18/41 = 43.9% C-M77
1/41 = 2.4% C-M407

1/63 = 1.6% C-M217(xM77, M407)
33/63 = 52.4% C-M77

15/39 = 38.5% C-M217(xM77, M407)

5/52 = 9.6% C-M217(xM77, M407)

2/406 = 0.5% C-M217(xM77, M407)
1/406 = 0.2% C-M77

C-M407 seems to occur with especially high frequency among Mongolic people (Buryats) and historically Mongolicized peoples (Khamnigans, who are ostensibly former Evenks, and Sojots, who are ostensibly former members of the same Turkic group that includes Tuvinians, Todjins, and Tofalars) who inhabit an area around the southwestern end of Lake Baikal. It is also fairly common among Mongolic peoples in at least Mongolia and Kalmykia. However, Hua Zhong et al. (2010) have not found any example of C-M407 among their 35 Mongols from the PRC (23 from Inner Mongolia plus 12 from Heilongjiang), though they have found C-M407 in 4.5% (5/111) of their sample of Manchus from Liaoning (but not in any of their 25 Manchus from Heilongjiang). Myung Jin Park et al. (2013) have found C-M407 in 2/300 (0.7%) of a sample of Koreans.

C-M407 is a recently expanded (TMRCA with C-CTS4449 found in Pakistani Hazara and Beijing Han approx. 7,300 ybp according to YFull) subclade of C-F1067, the branch of C-M217 that tends to be found among East Asians and East Asian-influenced populations (e.g. Vietnamese). Therefore, its most recent common ancestor with C-L1373, whose branches are found with high frequency in many Central Asian, North Asian, and North American populations, dates back to about 34,400 ybp according to YFull.

However, it is important to note that the subclades of C-L1373 that are found with high frequency among Mongolic, Tungusic, and some Turkic peoples, such as C-M77 and the so-called Genghis Khan star cluster, have similarly recent coalescence ages, so the situation of C-L1373 vis--vis C-F1067 among modern Asians might be similar to that of R1a vis--vis R1b among modern Europeans (though the genealogical rift between the two subclades of C2-M217 is even greater than that which pertains between the two subclades of R1-M173).

06-12-2017, 09:24 AM
Thank you for your answers!

Good news:

1. FTDNA confirmed Nukaev's being C-M130 by the backbone test.

2. Nukaev has oredered Big Y today!

08-12-2017, 09:40 AM
I presume that Mr. Nukaev from Ts'esi, Chechen Republic (confirmed to belong to haplogroup C-K700 by SNP testing according to the Chechen-Noahcho DNA Project on FTDNA) is identical to YF10676 from the Chechen Republic (Chechenskaya Respublika) on YFull's YTree v5.05.

YFull has placed YF10676's Y-DNA alongside that of NA18612 of the CHB (Han Chinese in Beijing, China) sample in haplogroup C-CTS3385, a subclade of C-K700 parallel to C-F1319. (In addition, the FTDNA Haplogroup C Project has categorized a certain Mr. Jeong from South Korea, to whose Y-STR haplotype Yaroslav has referred previously in this thread, as belonging to C-CTS3385, although it also indicates that his haplogroup has been confirmed through Y-SNP testing only as far as C-CTS4021≈Z1300.)

C-F1319 includes NA18620 of the CHB sample, YF06407 from Shandong, China, and HG03917 of the BEB (Bengali in Bangladesh) sample. (The FTDNA projects for haplogroup C and C2 additionally include a certain Mr. Ogawa, whose patrilineal ancestor is recorded to have been born in about 1880 in Saga (near Nagasaki) on the island of Kyūshū, Japan, within C-F1319.) The intraclade TMRCA of C-F1319 is estimated to be 9,400 ybp, and the interclade TMRCA of C-F1319 and C-CTS3385 (which is also the intraclade TMRCA of C-K700) is estimated to be 10,600 ybp.

Likewise, YFull has estimated the interclade TMRCA of C-CTS2657 and C-K700, which is also the intraclade TMRCA of C-Z1300 so long as we lack any example of C-Z1300(xCTS2657, K700), to be 10,600 ybp. C-CTS2657 includes three subgroups that are represented on YFull at present: C-CTS4449 (including ERR1025626=HGDP00125 Hazara from Pakistan, NA18749 from the CHB sample, and YF10710 from Fujian, China), C-M407 (a fairly well-known subclade that is spread through most of eastern Asia, but especially frequent among the Buryats and neighboring peoples now living in the vicinity of Lake Baikal), and C-CTS2657*(xY13860) (represented by YF08165 from Jiangsu, China). The interclade TMRCA of C-M407 and C-CTS4449 is estimated to be 7,300 ybp, and the interclade TMRCA of C-Y13860 (which includes C-M407 and C-CTS4449) and C-CTS2657*(xY13860) is estimated to be 9,800 ybp.

The interclade TMRCA of C-Z1300 and C-F845 (the latter being the other known subclade of C-F2613; C-F2613 contains nearly all known examples of "Southern" C-M217) is estimated to be 11,600 ybp, so only about 1,000 years older than the interclade TMRCA of C-CTS3385 and C-F1319. The intraclade TMRCA of all examples of C-F845 currently tabulated by YFull, who hail from South Korea, Japan, and Vietnam besides China, is estimated to be 7,600 ybp.

C-Z8440/K700, which subsumes Mr. Nukaev's subclade, C-CTS3385, is known to be present among South Koreans:

Koreans collected in Seoul and Daejeon, South Korea (So Yeun Kwon et al. 2015)
50/706 = 7.1% C-CTS2657
17/706 = 2.4% C-Z8440 (≈ C-K700)
17/706 = 2.4% C-F845
5/706 = 0.7% C-L1373
89/706 = 12.6% C-M217 total

It is also known that the fairly high frequency of C-CTS2657 among (at least South) Koreans is not ascribable to a high frequency of the recently expanded C-M407 subclade:

300 Korean males ("The biospecimens for this study were provided by National Biobank of Korea, Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, supported by the Korean Ministry of Health and Welfare. This study was supported by a faculty research grant from Yonsei University College of Medicine in Seoul, Korea for 2008 (6-2008-0266).") (Park et al. 2013)
48/300 = 16.0% C-M217(xM48, M407, P53.1)
0/300 C-M48
2/300 = 0.7% C-M407
0/300 C-P53.1
50/300 = 16.7% C-M217 total

I would guess based on currently available data that Mr. Nukaev's direct patrilineal ancestor about 11,600 years ago probably lived somewhere in the vicinity of the Yellow Sea. However, I also would note that his most recent common ancestor with the most closely related East Asian individual on YFull, i.e. NA18612 of the CHB sample, should have lived slightly more than 10,000 years ago. The Y-STR haplotype of Mr. Jeong from South Korea also seems quite distinct from that of Mr. Nukaev from the Chechen Republic, but might suggest a likelihood of a closer relationship between those two than between either of them and NA18612 from Beijing. Based on the known history of the Caucasus region, a Turkic or Mongolic ancestry seems more likely than a Korean or Chinese ancestry for Mr. Nukaev, but I am not aware of any case of C-CTS3385 (or even any case of C-F1319) from modern Turkic or Mongolic peoples. Besides Mr. Nukaev from the Chechen Republic in C-CTS3385, the only case of C-K700 outside China, Korea, and Japan of which I am aware is HG03917, a Bengali in Bangladesh who belongs to C-F3777*(xF3759) under C-F1319.

11-16-2018, 11:28 PM
Is he Nogai?

11-17-2018, 02:32 AM
Is he Nogai?I do not have any genealogical information related to the particular Mr. Nukaev from the Chechen Republic who has been mentioned in this thread, but I would guess from the form of his surname (Nukaev/Nukayev < *Nukay + -ov) that it might have been adopted by an ancestor who considered himself to be of Nogai origin. The modern ethnonym, "Nogai," is from the appellation of the 15th to 17th century Nogai Horde of the eastern Pontic-Caspian steppe. That appellation appears to have been based on the name of Nogai Khan, a 13th century Jochid of the Golden Horde. The etymology goes back to Written Mongolian noqai‎ (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%B9) or *nuqai (cf. 16th century transcription in Chinese characters as 奴害 "slave-harm" used for their phonetic values as *n-hi) "[literal] dog; [astrological] the Dog; wolf; villain, evildoer, sly and wicked person." It is probably related somehow to Manchu [I]niohe "wolf." Manchus and Mongols have had traditions of giving their children disparaging or "negative" names for religious reasons and naming children (especially males) after animals that are typically viewed as strong, violent, frightening, good at hunting, etc.

FTDNA Kit Number 249613 (Name="Kivalov," Country="Russian Federation," Haplogroup="D-BY15199" according to the Y-DNA D Haplogroup Project at FTDNA; Name= "Kivalov," Paternal Ancestor Name="kara mangit, koban-noghay, NGY," Country="Russian Federation," Haplogroup="D-BY15199" according to the Kazakh Y-DNA Project at FTDNA) also appears to be of Nogai ancestry.