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View Full Version : Worth it to buy 23andMe after Ancestry?



JDay
06-10-2017, 05:07 AM
I fairly recently bought an Ancestry kit over 23andMe because Ancestry offered the Genetic Communities feature and had separate categories for Irish and British descent rather than 23andMe's "British and Irish" category. I was quite surprised for my results to come back as 91% Great Britain despite having a large degree of documented German ancestry and smaller degree of Irish ancestry (which showed up in my Genetic Communities as likely Connacht Irish despite measuring as only 3% Irish). Following this I was interested in purchasing a 23andMe kit to how the results are different. It's seems that 23andMe hedges a lot more when it comes to Northern European ancestry, so I've considered that as a possibility. I have to imagine though that my "French and German" results would at least be higher than the 1% "Europe West" I got on Ancestry. There's a Father's Day sale of $79, but that's still a decent amount of money for me to perhaps only find out a little bit more.

For reference here are my K13 and K15 results on GedMatch if anyone wants to take a guess at what my 23andMe results might look like:

K13
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 46.45
2 Baltic 23.70
3 West_Med 17.14
4 West_Asian 6.64
5 East_Med 2.91
6 Amerindian 1.27


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Dutch 5.681668
2 Southeast_English 6.064989
3 Southwest_English 6.521695
4 Orcadian 6.977754
5 West_German 7.165495
6 Irish 7.694401
7 North_Dutch 7.899765
8 North_German 8.036798
9 Danish 8.366082
10 West_Scottish 8.521713
11 Norwegian 10.111670
12 French 11.224807
13 Swedish 11.271180
14 Austrian 12.762434
15 East_German 13.291363
16 North_Swedish 16.870413
17 Hungarian 18.396782
18 Spanish_Cataluna 18.857159
19 Southwest_French 19.151226
20 Spanish_Cantabria 20.056633

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% South_Dutch +50% Southwest_English 4.193801


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% North_German +25% Orcadian +25% Southwest_French 3.194569


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + South_Polish 2.298638
2 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + Ukrainian_Lviv 2.313655
3 French_Basque + Irish + Ukrainian_Belgorod + West_Scottish 2.388747
4 French_Basque + Ukrainian_Belgorod + West_Scottish + West_Scottish 2.404788
5 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + Ukrainian_Belgorod 2.428883
6 French_Basque + Irish + Ukrainian_Lviv + West_Scottish 2.432974
7 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + Ukrainian 2.498564
8 French_Basque + Hungarian + Irish + Swedish 2.501748
9 French_Basque + Irish + South_Polish + West_Scottish 2.504362
10 French_Basque + Irish + North_Dutch + South_Polish 2.509906
11 Croatian + French_Basque + Irish + Norwegian 2.511694
12 East_German + French_Basque + North_German + Swedish 2.529104
13 French_Basque + Irish + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_Belgorod 2.532909
14 East_German + French_Basque + North_German + Norwegian 2.541418
15 Austrian + French_Basque + North_German + Swedish 2.550377
16 French_Basque + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_Belgorod + West_Scottish 2.555955
17 Danish + French_Basque + Irish + South_Polish 2.568043
18 French_Basque + Irish + North_Dutch + Ukrainian_Lviv 2.569636
19 French_Basque + Irish + North_German + South_Polish 2.583292
20 French_Basque + Ukrainian_Lviv + West_Scottish + West_Scottish 2.606597

K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 32.44
2 North_Sea 27.54
3 Baltic 13.07
4 West_Med 11.12
5 Eastern_Euro 7.05
6 West_Asian 6.66


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Dutch 8.592895
2 Southwest_English 9.884375
3 North_German 9.926876
4 Southeast_English 10.267015
5 Irish 10.794315
6 French 11.946752
7 West_Scottish 12.050743
8 Danish 12.708853
9 North_Dutch 12.897851
10 East_German 13.865582
11 Orcadian 14.241307
12 West_German 14.368286
13 Austrian 16.122526
14 Norwegian 17.087221
15 Spanish_Cataluna 17.107756
16 Swedish 17.617937
17 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 18.082628
18 Southwest_French 18.271891
19 West_Norwegian 18.657490
20 Spanish_Cantabria 18.805185

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French_Basque +50% Swedish 7.509576


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +25% East_German +25% French_Basque 5.779804


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + North_German + North_German + North_German 4.599365
2 East_German + French_Basque + Irish + North_German 4.716386
3 East_German + French_Basque + North_German + North_German 4.837321
4 East_German + French_Basque + North_German + West_Scottish 4.915964
5 Croatian + French_Basque + Irish + Irish 5.018602
6 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + South_Polish 5.031529
7 East_German + French_Basque + Irish + Irish 5.053144
8 East_German + French_Basque + North_Dutch + North_German 5.070656
9 East_German + French_Basque + North_German + Orcadian 5.088114
10 Austrian + French_Basque + Irish + North_German 5.094421
11 East_German + French_Basque + North_German + Southeast_English 5.110029
12 Austrian + French_Basque + Irish + Irish 5.115778
13 Croatian + French_Basque + Irish + Orcadian 5.117631
14 Croatian + French_Basque + Irish + West_Scottish 5.124991
15 French_Basque + Irish + Orcadian + South_Polish 5.131876
16 Austrian + French_Basque + North_German + Orcadian 5.146787
17 French_Basque + Irish + North_German + North_German 5.161953
18 Austrian + French_Basque + Irish + North_Dutch 5.162842
19 French_Basque + Irish + South_Polish + West_Scottish 5.170724
20 Austrian + French_Basque + North_German + West_Scottish 5.203606

Thanks in advance!

sgdavies@hotmail.com
06-10-2017, 06:46 AM
Why not take a look at Living DNA? If your looking for regionalization of your ancestry, seems like the best solution imo.

J1 DYS388=13
06-10-2017, 07:00 AM
I've taken them all, and sgdavies is correct. LivingDNA is a bit Beta, but FWIW it's the most detailed in your geographical area of interest.

Judith
06-10-2017, 07:08 AM
I agree with the suggestion to try livingDNA because it does give a better breakdown. 23&me has the disadvantage that if someone did it for health reasons (where it is of very limited use) then they make their DNA results private. I have a 2nd cousin and s/he is private. Very frustrating as a genealogist!
LivingDNA is still a work in progress but they are doing stuff like better sampling in Ireland and Germany, where the others are doing nothing (other than using their customers data in the case of ancestry).
For all the other companies the ancient origins is a bit of fun but is how they advertise and is their weakest aspect.

sktibo
06-10-2017, 07:38 AM
I bought ancestry DNA for the same reason as you did, and it also lumped me into it's awful Great Britain category at 73%.
For your purposes I'm going to agree with the others and say get Living DNA, it's definitely far from perfect but it should give you some idea about what's going on. It's also just the most interesting test on the market IMO, and the potential of future updates makes it appealing. In the meantime try uploading your ancestry DNA to myheritage to see how it splits your isles ancestry? seems to work fairly well for some people. I should also say though that it seems many people here agree that 23andme has the most accurate autosomal test, (for myself it certainly is) despite it being less detailed, and for the purposes of genealogical research I find it quite useful.

JDay
06-10-2017, 08:14 AM
Thanks for the responses everyone. Honestly, I haven't quite considered Living DNA as much because at least in the US they haven't marketed very aggressively but the British Isles regional breakdown is quite interesting and it's something I'll consider buying.

Here are my MyHeritage results:

North and West Europe
71.7%
English
61.1%
Scandinavian
7.8%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
2.8%

East Europe
19.9%
East European
14.8%
Baltic
5.1%

South Europe
8.4%
Iberian
4.2%
Italian
4.2%

The English results are still higher than what I would expect but reasonably plausible. The Southern and Eastern Euro results are much higher than I would expect and what Ancestry reported.

sktibo
06-10-2017, 08:34 AM
Thanks for the responses everyone. Honestly, I haven't quite considered Living DNA as much because at least in the US they haven't marketed very aggressively but the British Isles regional breakdown is quite interesting and it's something I'll consider buying.

Here are my MyHeritage results:

North and West Europe
71.7%
English
61.1%
Scandinavian
7.8%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
2.8%

East Europe
19.9%
East European
14.8%
Baltic
5.1%

South Europe
8.4%
Iberian
4.2%
Italian
4.2%

The English results are still higher than what I would expect but reasonably plausible. The Southern and Eastern Euro results are much higher than I would expect and what Ancestry reported.

It definitely has its own set of problems, as all these tests seem to. My myheritage tests give me a massive amount of Iberian and Eastern European to a degree I've not seen on any other autosomal test.

About how much of your ancestry is Irish exactly? How much English?

A Norfolk L-M20
06-10-2017, 10:37 AM
Bear in mind, that 23andme, although a good ancestry test in some respects, is confused by medieval admixture, and as a consequence, misinterprets many European populations, including the English. The "British & Irish reference heavily biases to Irish / Scottish, while English testers recieve percentages of French & German, Scandinavian, and Southern European that do not correlate with 23's claim of reflecting ancestry within the past 500 years.

sktibo
06-10-2017, 07:54 PM
Bear in mind, that 23andme, although a good ancestry test in some respects, is confused by medieval admixture, and as a consequence, misinterprets many European populations, including the English. The "British & Irish reference heavily biases to Irish / Scottish, while English testers recieve percentages of French & German, Scandinavian, and Southern European that do not correlate with 23's claim of reflecting ancestry within the past 500 years.

I think the claims of these different companies in that they all claim to be able to trace your ancestry back X number of different years are a bit absurd seeing as they all use reference populations from modern people.. I think the only claim they should be able to make is that they compare your DNA to the collection of samples they have and assign you percentages based on that. Instead if something doesn't line up they sometimes say it's because this test goes back X number of years, when I think the case really is is that their reference population didn't match, probably because of a low number of samples. I feel like this "ancient" estimate claim is a bogus claim used to cover their bases when people get estimates which are incredibly far off. It's almost false advertising.

JDay
06-11-2017, 07:20 PM
About how much of your ancestry is Irish exactly? How much English?

Roughly speaking, I would guess I'm 40-45% English, 40-45% German (Mostly Pennsylvania Dutch) and 10-15% Irish.

Mike_G
06-12-2017, 12:52 AM
I wasn't impressed with Ancestry's DNA ethnicity results. They were imbalanced far too much to my Eastern European side. On the other hand I've had very good luck with Ancestry relative matches compared to the other companies, which has turned out to be a gold mine of information regarding my European roots. That alone made the test worth it for me.

Living DNA is very interesting and probably the most "fun." Like Ancestry though, my results are imbalanced but towards my UK ancestry. I give them a pass for now because it's a new company, and they're still fine-tuning things.

As frustrating as 23andme's British/Irish or (for me) Broadly Northwestern European categories can be, the general consensus around here is that it's the most accurate among all the companies.

They're all good and all not so good depending on what you're looking for.