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TigerMW
07-09-2013, 03:13 PM
I think that DF81 is showing the STR diversity needed to qualify for ISOGG. I'm not sure what additional SNP testing is needed at this point. Here are the two folks in the DF27 project that are DF81+

259851 Uriarte DF27+, DF79-, DF81+, DF83-, DF84-, L1231-, L1245-, L194-, L617-, L86.2-, L881-, Z196-, Z225-
B3142 Zúńiga DF27+, DF79-, DF81+, DF83-, DF84-, Z196-, Z209-, Z220-, Z225-, Z229-

Both surnames could be considered of Basque origin.

TigerMW
07-11-2013, 12:20 PM
David R posted this today.
Reviewing available information on DF81 and DF83, two results that are missing that will be required when adding them to the ISOGG tree are Z195 results for DF81+ and DF83+ samples. I think I have everything else covered at this point. https://www.facebook.com/groups/haplogroupp312/permalink/471521339605598/

Webb
07-11-2013, 01:52 PM
David R posted this today. https://www.facebook.com/groups/haplogroupp312/permalink/471521339605598/

Mike, I posted on Facebook also. I took DF83 when they first offered for the sake of science and I tested negative.

TigerMW
07-11-2013, 07:15 PM
Mike, I posted on Facebook also. I took DF83 when they first offered for the sake of science and I tested negative.
Billy, did you test for Z195? I don't know if you saw David Reynold's answer but we need him to clarify. I think Z195 is equivalent to Z196. If so we probably have Z196+ DF81- DF83- already available so the ISOGG requirements are met.

Webb
07-11-2013, 08:19 PM
Billy, did you test for Z195? I don't know if you saw David Reynold's answer but we need him to clarify. I think Z195 is equivalent to Z196. If so we probably have Z196+ DF81- DF83- already available so the ISOGG requirements are met.

Mike, kit #'s 114718 and 170727 are both DF83+, Z196-. Kit # B3142 is DF81+, Z196-.

TigerMW
08-13-2013, 02:53 PM
Great news for Robert T.


I am also DF81+ and the origin of my paternal lineage (Zambrano) is Basque. At this moment we have four positive results for DF81. The surnames are Uriarte, Zuniga, Tello, Zambrano. I believe that DF81 indicates a Basque cluster. I also believe that possible candidates for DF81 are persons with marker values of DYS458=16, DYS449=28, DYS487=14. We need more candidates to test the DF81 SNP.

Regards,

Robert ....
__________________________________________________ __________________

Tambi�n soy DF81 + y el origen de mi linaje paterno (Zambrano) es vasco. En este momento tenemos cuatro resultados positivos para DF81. Los apellidos son Uriarte, Z��iga, Tello, Zambrano. Creo que DF81 indica un grupo vasco. Tambi�n creo que los posibles candidatos para DF81 son personas con valores de los marcadores de DYS458 = 16 DYS449 = 28 DYS487 = 14. Necesitamos m�s candidatos para probar el DF81 SNP.

Saludos,
Robert ... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b-P312-Project/message/6043

TigerMW
08-13-2013, 03:01 PM
When I searched the Iberian and Continental European projects recently for DF27 suspects, I looked for a subset of this pattern.

I also believe that possible candidates for DF81 are persons with marker values of DYS458=16, DYS449=28, DYS487=14
In the interest of opening the spigot to the broadest point in searching for suspects, I used 487>=14 and 458<=16 as the unique criteria. 487 is very slow so that is great. 458 is fairly fast, but lower than modal (17) is a little less frequent.

Currently, I think there are two very, very good suspect groups for DF81 testing. The first has
(439<=11) 458<=16 (444>=13) 487>=14 565>=13

I use parenthesis to indicate very common but not solidly off-modal. The high 565 value makes this a strong STR signature for this first group which I'm labeling:

d81-48714-56513

f269626 Alvarez
f225826 Caton
fN55018 de Fuica Ladrón de Cegama
fN91624 de Zuluaga
f227501 Rodríguez
f230876 Sagasti
f44266 Turizo
f16848 Zambrano (confirmed DF81+)

Another peer group, below, seems to have the P312 modal of 565=12 but has 389i=12

d81-48714-38912

f54898 Alderete
fN52837 Arzac
fE10262 Covanera
f167663 Domingos
f33082 Flores
f229913 Fonseca
fN40959 González
fN44991 Lizarraga
f39078 Pardo
f260908 Fernández
f283175 Gutierrez
fE16716 zzzUnknown
f259851 Uriarte (confirmed DF81+)
fB3142 Zúńiga (confirmed DF81+)

TigerMW
08-13-2013, 03:10 PM
Where is Rick A?

This kit # has SNP results that keep him in the DF81 candidate list.

f6521 Arnold DF27+ Z196-

He also has 487=14 458=16, which would be part of my wide spigot off-modal criteria. His 449=29 is modal so that is one negative hit on the probabilities but since we don't know how old DF81 is .......

The whole group below is in the similar predicament. They are all 487=14 458=16, but all 449=29 or above, where as the other two varieties are typically 449<=28. 449 is fairly fast moving, though, and DF81+ f259851 Uriarte is modal 449=29

f6521 Arnold
f159017 Becker
f143921 Brooks
fN39180 Dias
f165566 Gonzáles
f45256 Jácome
f196772 Leal
f106303 Nazario
fN55759 Rasmussen
f221477 Rodriguez
f211311 Wade
f124940 Wade
fN26183 zzzUnknown

I'm labeling them
d81-48714-?

We need exploration of this group.

Rick
08-30-2013, 01:35 AM
Where is Rick A?

This kit # has SNP results that keep him in the DF81 candidate list.

f6521 Arnold DF27+ Z196-

He also has 487=14 458=16, which would be part of my wide spigot off-modal criteria. His 449=29 is modal so that is one negative hit on the probabilities but since we don't know how old DF81 is .......

The whole group below is in the similar predicament. They are all 487=14 458=16, but all 449=29 or above, where as the other two varieties are typically 449<=28. 449 is fairly fast moving, though, and DF81+ f259851 Uriarte is modal 449=29

f6521 Arnold
f159017 Becker
f143921 Brooks
fN39180 Dias
f165566 Gonzáles
f45256 Jácome
f196772 Leal
f106303 Nazario
fN55759 Rasmussen
f221477 Rodriguez
f211311 Wade
f124940 Wade
fN26183 zzzUnknown

I'm labeling them
d81-48714-?

We need exploration of this group.

Here I am, Mike. I am a very infrequent hobbyist these days, and have only just now seen your note. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm afraid I've completely lost the plot on DF27. You're recommending DF81 only, or is there more I can test to shed light on this group? Is DF81 an a la carte option at FTDNA? Cheers, Rick

Rick
03-16-2014, 07:57 PM
Where is Rick A?

This kit # has SNP results that keep him in the DF81 candidate list.

f6521 Arnold DF27+ Z196-

He also has 487=14 458=16, which would be part of my wide spigot off-modal criteria. His 449=29 is modal so that is one negative hit on the probabilities but since we don't know how old DF81 is .......

The whole group below is in the similar predicament. They are all 487=14 458=16, but all 449=29 or above, where as the other two varieties are typically 449<=28. 449 is fairly fast moving, though, and DF81+ f259851 Uriarte is modal 449=29

f6521 Arnold
f159017 Becker
f143921 Brooks
fN39180 Dias
f165566 Gonzáles
f45256 Jácome
f196772 Leal
f106303 Nazario
fN55759 Rasmussen
f221477 Rodriguez
f211311 Wade
f124940 Wade
fN26183 zzzUnknown

I'm labeling them
d81-48714-?

We need exploration of this group.

My df81 came back ancestral. It was worth the look based on the dys 487 and 458 matches, but no joy. Maybe there's something between df81 and df27. Someday...

favouriteslave
06-28-2014, 06:52 PM
Thinking of testing my father for this DF81. He just tested Neg for Z195-. Any recommendations? Next thought was L617

Kit 222261 Guillermo Sotela Vargas. Surname Sotelo comes from Valladolid Spain 1550. P312+, DF27+, Z225-, Z195-, U152-, L176-, L2-, L21-, L226-, L4-, M126-, M153-, M65-

DYS393 DYS390 DYS19** DYS391 DYS385 DYS426 DYS388 DYS439 DYS389I DYS392 DYS389II***
Value 13 24 15 11 11-14 12 12 11 13 13 29
PANEL 2 (13-25)
Marker DYS458 DYS459 DYS455 DYS454 DYS447 DYS437 DYS448 DYS449 DYS464
Value 16 9-10 8 11 24 15 19 25 14-15-17-17
PANEL 3 (26-37)
Marker DYS460 Y-GATA-H4 YCAII DYS456 DYS607 DYS576 DYS570 CDY DYS442 DYS438
Value 11 11 19-23 15 15 18 18 36-39 12 12

razyn
06-28-2014, 08:38 PM
I should move him down a group and take another look around for off-modals; in the DF27 project he's in the wrong group, at the moment. DF81 has tracked pretty Basque intensive so far, which I believe is not that strong in the Valladolid area (and IIRC you suspect other ancestry for his line).

OK, he's in Aa now (but this is probably more than a 12-step program). Nothing really smacks me in the face (with 37 markers), except maybe that DYS449=25, a very low number for our haplogroup so far. But it's one of those markers too fast to get worked up about, or so we are led to believe. Sometimes people share off-modals at a marker well beyond #37, and if you don't test him higher you'll never know. It might be cheaper to go for a Big Y than to keep chipping away... I don't know. That's not necessarily helpful if no related person also tests. You haven't yet found the related person, and when you do there's no guarantee he'll be wealthy and research oriented. I kind of like comparing STR alleles, myself; but I think that may be the wave of the past (even though it clearly has worked, for many people).

EastAnglian
07-01-2014, 12:14 PM
Thinking of testing my father for this DF81. He just tested Neg for Z195-. Any recommendations? Next thought was L617

Kit 222261 Guillermo Sotela Vargas. Surname Sotelo comes from Valladolid Spain 1550. P312+, DF27+, Z225-, Z195-, U152-, L176-, L2-, L21-, L226-, L4-, M126-, M153-, M65-

DYS393 DYS390 DYS19** DYS391 DYS385 DYS426 DYS388 DYS439 DYS389I DYS392 DYS389II***
Value 13 24 15 11 11-14 12 12 11 13 13 29
PANEL 2 (13-25)
Marker DYS458 DYS459 DYS455 DYS454 DYS447 DYS437 DYS448 DYS449 DYS464
Value 16 9-10 8 11 24 15 19 25 14-15-17-17
PANEL 3 (26-37)
Marker DYS460 Y-GATA-H4 YCAII DYS456 DYS607 DYS576 DYS570 CDY DYS442 DYS438
Value 11 11 19-23 15 15 18 18 36-39 12 12

L617 might be worth looking at, there is a L617+ person on my FTDNA Big Y matches with the surname Ortiz, apparently this surname could be Basque, comes from Asturias originally(which is Galicia and Basque areas).

I wonder if L617 is a Basque related SNP, anyone think that's the case?

corner
07-01-2014, 12:51 PM
There are a couple of relatively recently identified deep subclades below DF27. Z2552 and Z2571.

Z2552. DF81, Z15001 and L617 are parallel and thought to be below, or downstream of, Z2552.

Z2571. DF84 is parallel with FGC11395 (aka 'Rox2') and both are downstream of Z2571.

Subclades under Z2552 and Z2571 seem to have something of a north/south European split in their geographical distributions.

razyn
07-16-2015, 06:44 PM
Z2552. DF81, Z15001 and L617 are parallel and thought to be below, or downstream of, Z2552.

Last night I noticed a new SNP in the Shared Novel Variants of five BigY testers (three of them in the DF27 project). After some quick email back and forth, Vladimir Tagankin identified it in a 1000 Genomes kit (HG01121, from Medellin, Colombia). He was already Z2552* on both the YFull tree and Alex Williamson's Big Tree. YFull has named it YP4295, and I created subgroup Gc in the DF27 project for the three members of the project who have already tested positive for it (via BigY). It seems to be widespread, old, and at the same level as DF81 and L617 (directly below Z2552).

I should mention that the new SNP YP4295 is at 2795952, G to C. Z2552 itself is at 4217182, C to T (and is not called as a Novel Variant, so I believe one has to look at the .bed file or BAM file, to find it in one's BigY results).

favouriteslave
04-18-2019, 01:35 AM
Yes, after testing at YSEQ my father turned out to be below Z2552 at BY3232. Sorry, getting back on this ship a bit late, Like 5 years late

HERMELO ALTAMIRANDA
08-05-2019, 08:10 PM
I have tested my YDNA until ydna111 in Family Tree DNA. Nevgen gave me this result: R1b DF27>ZZ12>Z2552>DF81. I can see above this: "I believe that DF81 indicates a Basque cluster. I also believe that possible candidates for DF81 are persons with marker values of DYS458=16, DYS449=28, DYS487=14." I've got these values in my results: DYS458=16. DYS449=29. DYS487=14.

HERMELO ALTAMIRANDA
08-05-2019, 11:03 PM
favouriteslave My paternal line is from Cartagena de Indias, Colombia. I have tested until 111Ydna (FTDNA). I have tried a YDNA haplogroup predictor, it gave me this results: R1b DF27>ZZ12>Z2552>DF81 I've got these values: DYS458=16; DYS449=29, DYS487=14. I can see your ethnicity, Norman-Seph Jew- Family Tree DNA gave me 8% sephardic Jewish in my results. Is sephardic jewish ethnicity related to Z2552 marker? I hope take Big Y around Christmas offer. Excuse my poor English, my native language is Spanish.

Webb
08-06-2019, 03:47 PM
favouriteslave My paternal line is from Cartagena de Indias, Colombia. I have tested until 111Ydna (FTDNA). I have tried a YDNA haplogroup predictor, it gave me this results: R1b DF27>ZZ12>Z2552>DF81 I've got these values: DYS458=16; DYS449=29, DYS487=14. I can see your ethnicity, Norman-Seph Jew- Family Tree DNA gave me 8% sephardic Jewish in my results. Is sephardic jewish ethnicity related to Z2552 marker? I hope take Big Y around Christmas offer. Excuse my poor English, my native language is Spanish.

I think the Sephardic Jewish element is probably not associated with DF27 and is more a component of your autosomal makeup. DF27 is under P312, and as the rest of the large haplogroups under P312 is most likely associated with Italo/Celtic, roughly. I am DF27 and mostly British, and I do not have any Sephardic Jewish dna. Here is a link to the BigY testers who have submitted their raw data to Yree and are Z2553. It is a really good visual tree.

https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=641

Shadogowah
08-10-2019, 08:12 AM
I think the Sephardic Jewish element is probably not associated with DF27 and is more a component of your autosomal makeup. DF27 is under P312, and as the rest of the large haplogroups under P312 is most likely associated with Italo/Celtic, roughly. I am DF27 and mostly British, and I do not have any Sephardic Jewish dna. Here is a link to the BigY testers who have submitted their raw data to Yree and are Z2553. It is a really good visual tree.

https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=641

The last crappy pie chart I found googling this topic showed a very decent 20% of sephardi haplogroups being R1b. I have no idea if the increase in the number of people testing has changed it significantly. Taking into account the strong association with Iberia and the fact that Judaism traditionally follows a matriarchal criteria, I'd say the existence and relevance of "modern" Sephardic DF27 is considerable despite the fact that the origin of the haplogroup indeed is Indo-European and unrelated to "ethnic" jews. Sephardi DF27 became such because at some point in history a great grandmother was jew or a great grandfather converted to Judaism (not exceptional during Roman times).

I think I have already mentioned to Mr. Altamiranda in other forum that his patrilineal ancestry is most likely Castilian. His surname is toponimic and relates most likely to a town or village in the Spanish Cantabric coast (Altamira). His patrilineal origins look as Spanish as it is possible to be and his surname shows up among some of the early explorers and conquistadores in Colombia and Panama.

Shadogowah
08-10-2019, 02:43 PM
With my comment above I mean: DF27 does not correlate to sephardi in general but it does in specific cases.

If you DF27 and you are Spanish or Latino, there is no correlation.

But when I consider the case of one of my closest Y matches that happen to be Polish, a Sephardic ancestor somewhere between my lineage and his is what comes to my mind immediately.

HERMELO ALTAMIRANDA
04-12-2020, 06:15 PM
Thank you very much for your kind response. I've got another question. I've got 15 private variants in my FTDNA results. How many years or centuries are from my mutation (R-FGC21129) to present time? Is it possible to find out when my lineage moved from Iberian peninsula to Colombia making a comparison with persons from iberian peninsula? I mean, is it possible to find out what mutations came up in latin american soil?

HERMELO ALTAMIRANDA
04-12-2020, 06:27 PM
My confirmed haplogroup is R-FGC21129, my closest matches are name Zúńiga, Lizárraga. My results are in FTDNA. I can see R-FGC21129 in Yfull public tree, there are surnames like Uriarte, Arzac, Pardo.

Webb
04-13-2020, 12:59 PM
Thank you very much for your kind response. I've got another question. I've got 15 private variants in my FTDNA results. How many years or centuries are from my mutation (R-FGC21129) to present time? Is it possible to find out when my lineage moved from Iberian peninsula to Colombia making a comparison with persons from iberian peninsula? I mean, is it possible to find out what mutations came up in latin american soil?

On Alex Williamson's Ytree, FGC21125 is listed as being formed at 738 AD, and FGC21129 as being formed at 1694 AD. The age calculator used on his site is the Iain McDonald Method, but it hasn't been updated since October of 2017.

HERMELO ALTAMIRANDA
04-13-2020, 08:09 PM
Thank you. What is the meaning of A.D.? 'Anno Domini'? How many years are represented in a "private variant"?