PDA

View Full Version : U152+ L2+ Z49+ Z142+. "Country of Origin" Percentages for England and France



MitchellSince1893
07-10-2013, 04:28 AM
I'm Z142+ and I've noticed a significant number of Z142+ folks are of French origin on the FTDNA U152 project http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-U152/

I wondered how the percentage of English and French origin for Z142+ compared to percentages at the U152, L2 and Z49 levels.

Using the filters on the most recent version of the "Haplotype Data for R1b-P312xL21" spreadsheet https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17907527/R1b-P312xL21_Haplotypes.zip revealed the following:

Of the records where a country of origin is listed, "England and "France" combined is currently 35% of U152+, 39% of L2+, 62% of Z49+, and 85% of Z142+.

Detailed below:

-Of the 862 U152 records that list a country of origin, 186 list England (22%) and 115 list France (13%)
-Of the 467 L2+ records that list a country of origin, 112 list England (24%) and 72 list France (15%)
-Of the 41 Z49+ records that list a country of origin, 13 list England (32%) and 11 list France (27%)
-Of the 20 Z142+ records that list a country of origin, 8 list England (40%) and 9 list France (45%)

I know the Z142+ and Z49+ are statistically small samples, but if those percentages hold up over time; that's a significant jump for French origin.

Forgive me if this is old news.

MitchellSince1893
11-17-2013, 03:43 AM
Looked at the latest version of the "Haplotype Data for R1b-P312xL21" spreadsheet and noticed a significant difference between Z49+ Z142+ and Z49+ Z142- when it comes to English ancestry.

England makes up 38% of the Z142+ group (11 of 29 samples) and 7% of the Z142- group (1 of 15 samples).

Also Germany is not currently represented in the Z142+ group, but makes up 20% of Z142- (3 of 15 samples)

Granted these are still small sample sizes, but with the British Isles bias of the FTDNA customers, it's interesting that the Z49+ Z142- group (on FTDNA's U152 project) currently only has 1 member from England.



Pie charts show raw numbers vice percentages e.g. Z142+ has 11 samples from England while Z142- has 1.

927

R.Rocca
11-17-2013, 12:46 PM
It is a suspicion of mine that the Z49+Z142+ group and Z367+L20+ group originated within close proximity to one another, likely Eastern France. From there they would have move into England together. Z49+Z142- seems to be made up of a single subclade as per GoNL data and some unpublished sequences. The Z49+Z142- group is present in the Netherlands, so it may have traveled with Z367+Z34+ and their origins a little close to the Rhine.

MitchellSince1893
11-17-2013, 02:52 PM
Richard, I've read your thoughts on another thread where you say
While the La Tene Celts seem to have brought a specific subclade of U152 to Britain called L20, there is reason to suspect that L2(xL20) arrived during the Early Bronze Age.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?878-How-Did-U152-Get-to-England-amp-Scotland&p=5882&viewfull=1#post5882

Is your current thought that Z142+ is a La Tene arrival or would it be more of a early Bronze Age group?

Also I would be curious to hear more about your reasoning for the arrival times of both groups.

lgmayka
11-28-2013, 06:16 PM
Z49+Z142- seems to be made up of a single subclade as per GoNL data and some unpublished sequences.
My cousin, kit 64890 of Polish ancestry, is Z49+ Z142- . Do you consider his haplotype (http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.asp?uid=&viewuid=YX8BS&p=1) to belong to this hypothesized subclade?

R.Rocca
11-29-2013, 02:41 AM
My cousin, kit 64890 of Polish ancestry, is Z49+ Z142- . Do you consider his haplotype (http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.asp?uid=&viewuid=YX8BS&p=1) to belong to this hypothesized subclade?

lgmayka, unfortunately, they have not published STR information as of yet.

MitchellSince1893
03-19-2014, 03:46 AM
The Z142+ Z150/Z12222+ group is getting bigger.

On the FTDNA R-U152 site I now see 15 kits that are positive for Z150/Z12222. Just a few months ago there were only 2.

I'm assuming I will join this group when my BigY results come back, but maybe my kit will be the first of a new 3rd branch of Z142+.

With my very rare 395s1a and 395s1b STR values (11-15), I wouldn't be surprised.

Except for my kit, no one I'm aware of that is Z49+ has anything but modal values (15-16) for this slow mutating STR.

Pigmon
03-19-2014, 12:23 PM
This is the part I am interested in. Richard Roccca did a great job with the new sub menus!

If I had paid the $495 this is the group I would be placed in:

249822 L2+ Z49+ Z142+ L562- Edward Leopold Mitchell b1893 London d1969 Chicago
7181 L2+ Z49+ Z142+ L562- Z150? Thomas Davenport - 1615-1685 of Dorchester, MA
1370 L2+ Z49+ Z142+ L562- L594- John Graves, b.c. 1665, England/Virginia
1620 L2+ Z49+ Z142+ L562- L594- Not given

Who is 1620?

MitchellSince1893
03-19-2014, 01:05 PM
FYI 1370 + 1620 have already got their BigY results back. They are 2 of the 15 Z150s.

My assumption is that 1620 is also Graves surname.

MitchellSince1893
03-19-2014, 04:49 PM
Correction to my earlier post. There are 15 z142+ z150/z12222+ folks in the ftdna u152 project...but many of these are related and/or have the same surname.