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View Full Version : Beware LivingDNA Requires Customer to Indemnify Company to Download Raw Data



Amerijoe
06-14-2017, 06:24 PM
I originally posted on the download thread, but thought it important to point out on it's own.

Rather than the email, here is her site.

https://dna-explained.com/

ollie444
06-14-2017, 06:55 PM
I originally posted on the download thread, but thought it important to point out on it's own.

Rather than the email, here is her site.

https://dna-explained.com/

Under what circumstances could claims be made against LivingDNA for downloading raw dna? Give me an example, this doesn't sound like an issue at all.

Wing Genealogist
06-14-2017, 07:09 PM
There has been a case where a DNA company has been sued due to the fact someone (NOT the DNA testing company) had shared information from a downloaded file. This happened when the individual (who sued the testing company) downloaded their results, shared it with a project manager (who was NOT an employee of the testing company) and the project manager posted results (including linking the kit number with an email address) on a public website. Rather than go after the project manager who actually posted the result, the individual chose to go after the testing company, with a claim the company was responsible for the actions of the project manager.

This lawsuit was eventually dismissed without merit, but did cost the DNA testing company a lot of man-hours and other legal expenses to defend themselves from this lawsuit. The money (and time) spent was resources which had to be diverted from actually being able to provide services to the customers.

While Living DNA may well have gone overboard on their language, I for one can understand how they want to protect themselves from a similar headache.

AJL
06-14-2017, 07:19 PM
I suspect most of us have results from at least one other company we can upload to Gedmatch? In that case it shouldn't matter if we had data from LivingDNA, if they were not the results that we uploaded. It seems to me any issue would arise not in downloading results but rather in uploading/sharing them.

FionnSneachta
06-14-2017, 07:27 PM
I suspect most of us have results from at least one other company we can upload to Gedmatch? In that case it shouldn't matter if we had data from LivingDNA, if they were not the results that we uploaded. It seems to me any issue would arise not in downloading results but rather in uploading/sharing them.

I agree with this but once the file has been uploaded is there a way to delete it? I know there's an option on Gedmatch but I don't see anything on Genesis.

AJL
06-14-2017, 07:44 PM
Good question, I am not sure. You could always email the Gedmatch admins.

sktibo
06-14-2017, 08:40 PM
Thanks for posting this. I sent them an email requesting they delete my genesis upload as I wasn't able to find a way to do that. Until that is an option, I won't be re-uploading Living DNA data.

Pylsteen
06-14-2017, 08:50 PM
Thanks for posting this. I sent them an email requesting they delete my genesis upload as I wasn't able to find a way to do that.


Same. I would like to have more clarity on this, though I feel like the tone of the message is maybe a bit fear-mongering.

ajc347
06-14-2017, 09:02 PM
I've sent them an email as well.

I never thought about potential third party claims when I downloaded the data - I'd much rather opt on the side of safety and have the upload deleted from Genesis now rather than take a chance on what may, or may not, transpire in the future (regardless as to how small that chance may actually be).

C J Wyatt III
06-14-2017, 10:01 PM
Same. I would like to have more clarity on this, though I feel like the tone of the message is maybe a bit fear-mongering.

but just think what the worst case scenario would do to you.

Dibran
06-14-2017, 11:38 PM
Has to be the most retarded thing I have ever read. Why in any way should a tester be responsible for such fees, associated with individuals sueing because they are too butt hurt to accept results of matches. If for example there are innacuracies, that fault lies with the geneticists at LivingDNA.

A paying tester should have every right to upload his or her results to various calculators without repercussions. It's our hard earned money.

Wing Genealogist
06-15-2017, 10:08 AM
If you compare the language Living DNA uses, with the language the other testing companies use, it really isn't all that different.


23andMe: https://www.23andme.com/legal/ tos/

“You agree to defend and hold 23andMe, and its subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, agents, contractors, partners, employees, successors, and assigns harmless from any claim, or demand, including reasonable attorneys' fees, made by any third party due to or arising out of User Content you submit, post to, or transmit through the Service; your use of the Service; your connection to the Service; your violation of the TOS; or your violation of any rights of another. If you have submitted a saliva sample or otherwise provided your own Genetic Information, you will defend and hold harmless 23andMe, its employees, contractors, successors, and assigns from any liability arising out of the use or disclosure of any information obtained from genotyping your saliva sample and/or analyzing your Genetic Information, which is disclosed to you consistent with our Privacy Statement or results from any third-party add-ons to tools we provide. In addition, if you choose to provide your Genetic and/or Self-Reported Information to third parties - whether individuals to whom you facilitate access, intentionally or inadvertently, or to third parties for diagnostic or other purposes - you agree to defend and hold harmless 23andMe, its employees, contractors, successors, and assigns from any and all liability arising from such disclosure or use of your Genetic and/or Self-Reported Information.”


Ancestry.com: http://www.ancestry.ca/cs/ legal/termsandconditions

“You agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless AncestryDNA, its affiliates, officers, directors, employees and agents from and against any and all claims, damages, obligations, losses, liabilities, costs or expenses (including but not limited to attorney's fees) arising from: (i) your use of and access to the Website and Services; (ii) your violation of
any term of this Agreement; (iii) your violation of any third-party right, including without limitation any copyright, property, or privacy right; or (iv) any claim that your User Provided Content caused damage to a third party. This defense and indemnification obligation will survive this Agreement and your use of the Website and Services.”


MyHeritage: https://www.myheritage.com/FP/ Company/popup.php?p=terms_ conditions

“By using the DNA Services, you acknowledge that you may learn information you do not anticipate from the DNA Results and from the DNA Reports, which may evoke strong emotions and has the potential to alter your life and worldview. You may discover things about yourself that trouble you and that you may not have the ability to control or
change (e.g., your father is not genetically your father, or your ethnicity is not what you thought it is, or surprising facts related to your ancestry). These outcomes could have social, legal, or economic implications. You further acknowledge that your use of the DNA Services and receipt of the resulting DNA Reports may have serious implications not only for you, but also for your immediate or other family members, since they share some of your DNA. If you are in any way concerned about any such potential implications, DO NOT USE the DNA Services. You agree to indemnify and hold MyHeritage, its subsidiaries, employees, directors, agents, licensors, managers, affiliates and any third party acting on our behalf, and their respective officers, agents, partners and employees, harmless from any loss, liability, claim, or demand, including reasonable attorneys' fees, made due to or arising out of your use of or access to the DNA Services and any implications of such use.”


Family Tree DNA: https://www.familytreedna.com/ my/family-finder/downloads. aspx

“We are committed to protecting the privacy of our customers. By downloading any raw data or reports, you hereby indicate that you are the owner of that data or have permission to download the data, and you further indicate your understanding that Family Tree DNA cannot in any way guarantee the security or privacy of your downloaded data. Furthermore, you understand that by uploading your raw data to a third party application and linking it to your name, Family Tree DNA kit number, email address, or any other identifying information, the security of your raw data and record is further put at risk and may lead to the violation of Family Tree DNA Privacy Policy. By downloading your raw data, you assume the liability for any breach of privacy and release Family Tree DNA from any privacy violation that results either directly or indirectly from the downloaded raw data and/or upload to a third party application.”

Note both Ancestry and MyHeritage also use the word indemnify, while 23andMe speak about paying for any legal fees associated with lawsuits.

EDIT: Just as some folks are concerned about any risks associated with this language, the companies are equally (if not even more) concerned about being hit with lawsuits regarding downloaded data being used by others. In the case of the companies, it has actually happened where a company has been sued (unsuccessfully). I cannot see a DNA company suing a customer to help defend itself (as it would be suicide to its business). The language is simply there to protect themselves from what are essentially frivolous (and groundless) lawsuits.

GTC
06-15-2017, 01:14 PM
Members are reminded to keep the language of their posts civil.

ajc347
06-15-2017, 02:19 PM
If you compare the language Living DNA uses, with the language the other testing companies use, it really isn't all that different.

Thank you for posting these comparisons - they are most helpful.

The FTDNA agreement appears to be the most straight forward and least onerous. It strikes me, therefore, that the safest option is to use FTDNA data for matching purposes and only use other data for admixture analysis via a private profile. As I've already tested with FTDNA, this is the strategy I will be undertaking in the future.

ollie444
06-15-2017, 03:22 PM
Thank you for posting these comparisons - they are most helpful.

The FTDNA agreement appears to be the most straight forward and least onerous. It strikes me, therefore, that the safest option is to use FTDNA data for matching purposes and only use other data for admixture analysis via a private profile. As I've already tested with FTDNA, this is the strategy I will be undertaking in the future.

Unless you give your data to someone who decides to sue LivingDNA, you are at no risk at all.

ajc347
06-15-2017, 09:00 PM
It looks like Living DNA have now changed their download terms to a far more suitable alternative:

https://dna-explained.com/2017/06/15/livingdna-replaces-download-terms/

That's a brilliant and very quick response by the company to resolve the issue. :)

Amerijoe
06-15-2017, 09:02 PM
Was typing as ajc posted. Great news.

MacEochaidh
06-15-2017, 09:31 PM
It looks like Living DNA have now changed their download terms to a far more suitable alternative:

https://dna-explained.com/2017/06/15/livingdna-replaces-download-terms/

That's a brilliant and very quick response by the company to resolve the issue. :)

Now you tell me! I called the police and locked myself in the bathroom.

ollie444
06-16-2017, 10:11 AM
much ado about nothing if you ask me...

C J Wyatt III
06-16-2017, 02:05 PM
much ado about nothing if you ask me...

It wasn't until Living DNA changed its policy.

Jack Wyatt

simdadams
06-16-2017, 04:41 PM
Now you tell me! I called the police and locked myself in the bathroom.

sorry can't hear , got a tin foil hat on :)

MacUalraig
06-16-2017, 04:58 PM
Can't understand the hysteria about this. Estes is always running attack pieces on rivals to FTDNA with whom she has a business relationship. She wrote a very critical piece about her results (or lack of) too.

I can't imagine a real life situation in which the concerns she has raised would trouble a punter. Contact an attorney URGENTLY? got to be kidding.

razyn
06-16-2017, 05:34 PM
Roberta was also prompt in reporting the change in the LivingDNA policy. https://dna-explained.com/2017/06/15/livingdna-replaces-download-terms/

I agree that her first objection was a bit over the top, but it's just a blog. No more reason to get wound up about it than about the LivingDNA policy. Everyone is of course entitled to his or her own hysteria trigger.

can't_lurk_no_mo'
06-16-2017, 11:30 PM
Better worded-- makes much more sense. Good job Roberta and LivingDNA!

Dibran
06-17-2017, 03:45 PM
It looks like Living DNA have now changed their download terms to a far more suitable alternative:

https://dna-explained.com/2017/06/15/livingdna-replaces-download-terms/

That's a brilliant and very quick response by the company to resolve the issue. :)

Very punctual and reformative of them. That's very commendable. Hopefully my second kit generates good call rates. Look forward to using the raw data as well.