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MJost
07-11-2013, 05:57 PM
Post your H11 subclade if you have one. I am have a FullY DNA test which will all so provide the Full MtDNA. Yea, I may catch up with Cuz AJ.

MJost

AJL
07-11-2013, 06:54 PM
Still H11a2a3, one exact match, who is dead-ended in Ohio early 18th century. You'll beat me yet! :P

MJost
07-11-2013, 07:54 PM
According to the MtDNA Phylo tree
http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_R0.htm
I was tested to H11a2a T16140C with HVR-1 (16001 - 16520), HVR-2 (1 - 400) and a set of specifice SNPs needed to get to H11.

I was tested for H11a2a2 which is defined by these three G5585A/ T15670C/ A16265G SNP alleles in the HVR-1 panel but I was negative for H11a2a2 based on 16265. Maybe I will show positive for one of the other two in H11a2a2.


16251 CAAAGCCACC CCTC A CCCAC

But I could, maybe, find another subclade H11a2a> 1 or 3 or something new for a >4 placement, OR break the known Tree and cause a rearrangement.

MJost

AJL
07-11-2013, 08:15 PM
Yes, that's possible.

ananas
10-17-2013, 12:13 AM
hi guys! im new here. just did some basic dna test and im still not sure what it all means. ill do my study now :)

AJL
10-17-2013, 12:41 AM
Hello mtDNA cousin ananas and welcome to Anthrogenica! H11a does seem potentially to have spread from the Balkans, with H11a1 trickling more east (to Ukraine and Russia) and H11a2 moving more north and west (to Austria and Germany and France) over many thousands of years.

The Balkans of course are not so well tested, but I have seen examples of H11a2 from Croatia and Macedonia.

Yggdrasil
10-19-2013, 08:40 AM
Hi!
I΄m also a newbie :wave:

My subclade is H11b1, but it has no meaning for me as I can΄t seem to find much information on this subclade. I have one perfect match in the US who does not respond to emails.

If any of you know something about H11b1 please share! :)

randwulf
03-20-2014, 01:39 AM
Hey new poster H11a2!

AJL
03-20-2014, 01:42 AM
Welcome to Anthrogenica! Is your maternal line from Germany or France, or elsewhere?

randwulf
03-20-2014, 01:53 AM
I wish I could get past my "block" on that. The oldest surname is English "Hatcher" in early 1800s Virginia. I can't find her mother. Most of my maternal ancestors in that line are English/Scottish/Irish. I have some French and German from that line too, but they join "downstream" of quite a few exclusively English/Scottish/Irish names. So, I am a bit stuck on it. Also, at FTDNA, one of my only two matches (and that only at the "HVR1" level) is known English maternal line. So, it wouldn't surprise me given all that, that the line is English.

MJost
03-20-2014, 02:08 AM
I am a H11a2a and looking for another with a 12014=T

MJost

BEH
05-09-2014, 11:00 PM
First time here; not sure I am doing this correctly. My full mitochondrial sequence results from FTDNA show me as H11a, but with a difference--T961a instead of T961g. As I understand it, that means I am a candidate to be a new subclade of either H11 or H11a. FTDNA wrote to me: "Since you have chosen to include your FMS for research this will make it more likely that an H11a branch with T961a will be added to the tree sometime in the future."

AJL
05-10-2014, 12:56 AM
Welcome to Anthrogenica! This is interesting, since T691G is currently a defining mutation of H11a. My guess is there was a mutation first from 691T to 691G for the subclade, then in your case a mutation again from 691G to 691A. You can see the current H11 subclades here:

http://phylotree.org/tree/subtree_R0.htm

BEH
05-10-2014, 04:17 PM
Welcome to Anthrogenica! This is interesting, since T691G is currently a defining mutation of H11a. My guess is there was a mutation first from 691T to 691G for the subclade, then in your case a mutation again from 691G to 691A.
Your analysis is exactly the same as that of the folks at Family Tree DNA. Does that mean that when a new branch is created, it will be within H11a or parallel to it?

For your information, this is what I have in my profile at mtDNA Community:
Name of last ancestress known: Catharina Bujan
Married 1 Feb 1722
Location of Origin Praputnjak, Bakar
Country of Origin Croatia
Line of ascent:
Surname Country of Origin
Tadejević (Kate) Croatia [my mother's mother]
Štiglić (Ana) Croatia
Gecan (Maria Margaretha) Croatia
Bujan (Petronilla) Croatia
Fitnić (Margaretha) Croatia

At the time these people lived, of course, it was the Kingdom of Croatia attached to the Crown of Hungary. The background of the families involved here is unusual, as you can see from the following citation:
"In Dalmatia the inhabitants of such cities as Split, Zadar, Trogir and Ragusa long continued to use the Latin speech. In order to distinguish between themselves and the mountain shepherds (Arumanians, Kutzo-Vlachs, or Macedo-Rumans) they took to referring to the latter as 'Black Vlachs.' Records that date back as far as 1605 show that there was a numerous 'Vlach' population, which seems to have been of either Wallachian or Kutzo-Vlach origin, living around Bakar on the Dalmatian coast early in the sixteenth century if not before. They served the local nobility in the capacity of muleteers and cattle drivers, and they paid the desetina (tenth or tithe tax) to the city of Bakar. They were not serfs and in time of war they rendered service as cavalrymen to the Croatian lords. Tradition relates that they came with their flocks and herds to their present dwelling places but is silent as to the exact date. The land regulation (urbar) of Hreljin of 1608 names the people who had to pay the 'Wallach' tax. As in Istria, and also around Vinodol, Kastav, and on the island of Krk, these 'Wallachs' seem to have been cattle herders by choice rather than agriculturists. Of evident 'Vlach' origin are such names as Bujan, Kos (Črnić), Moderčin, Kanjer, Sudan, Tijan, Fitnić, Tadejević, Stiglić, and Kariolić. Together with the Istro-Rumanians these people of northern Dalmatia may represent the backwash of a great wave of Vlach migration that swept out of the Balkans into the coastal lands at some forgotten moment in history. As already mentioned, however, it is the writer's personal opinion that they came to the Croatian territories as military colonists to replace the original population dispersed by the Ottoman invasions." [Stanko Guldescu, The Croatian-Slavonian Kingdom 1526-1792 (The Hague: Mouton, 1970), 69].

AJL
05-10-2014, 04:57 PM
Your analysis is exactly the same as that of the folks at Family Tree DNA. Does that mean that when a new branch is created, it will be within H11a or parallel to it?

That's a good question and I am not sure of the answer. Have you published your sequence to Genbank (http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/Submission.htm)? That would get your sequence on Phylotree.

As to H11, it is possible that it spread both east and west primarily out of the Carpathian population refugium, and Wallachians are about as close to the Carpathians as it gets. H11a1 seems more characteristic of Ukraine and Russia, while H11a2 is more characteristic of Slovakia, Austria, and Germany, which I think favours a Carpathian origin. The Balkans and/or Carpathians may contain both types and you may be somewhere at the root of the H11 tree.

Unfortunately we don't have many fully sequenced samples from there but the overall frequency of H11 in an old paper is given as 1.8% in the Balkans, which is the third-highest region surveyed after the Volga/Ural area (another contender for point of origin) and Slovakia. In Malyarchuk et al. (2003) (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1469-1809.2003.00042.x/full), there is an H11a2 sequence in a Slovenian, while a now-defunct forensic mtDNA database listed one H11a sample on the Dalmatian coast.

BEH
05-10-2014, 10:00 PM
That's a good question and I am not sure of the answer. Have you published your sequence to Genbank (http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/Submission.htm)? That would get your sequence on Phylotree.

REPLY: Again, I thank you very much. I have just sent off an email to Mr. Logan. I did submit to mtDNA Community, which I thought was doing that, but perhaps I misunderstood.

As to H11, it is possible that it spread both east and west primarily out of the Carpathian population refugium, and Wallachians are about as close to the Carpathians as it gets. H11a1 seems more characteristic of Ukraine and Russia, while H11a2 is more characteristic of Slovakia, Austria, and Germany, which I think favours a Carpathian origin. The Balkans and/or Carpathians may contain both types and you may be somewhere at the root of the H11 tree.

Unfortunately we don't have many fully sequenced samples from there but the overall frequency of H11 in an old paper is given as 1.8% in the Balkans, which is the third-highest region surveyed after the Volga/Ural area (another contender for point of origin) and Slovakia. In Malyarchuk et al. (2003) (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1469-1809.2003.00042.x/full), there is an H11a2 sequence in a Slovenian, while a now-defunct forensic mtDNA database listed one H11a sample on the Dalmatian coast.
REPLY: Yesterday, after posting, I searched for H11a and found the article in Eupedia both current and useful for H11 and H11a:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_H_mtDNA.shtml
It says "H10 and H11 have a stronger presence in Eastern and Central Europe and would have re-expanded from the northern Black Sea region rather than from Southwest Europe after the LGM." Talking of the LBK culture (5500-4500 BCE) it says: "Over 100 mtDNA samples from this period have been tested and included haplogroups H2, H5, H7 and H20, among the likely newcomers from the Middle East, but also H1, H3, H10, H11a, H16 and H89, among the probable lineages coming from assimilated Mesolithic European populations." Finally, "The Unetice culture, which is thought to mark the arrival of R1b in Central Europe (but overlapping with the previous R1a expansion), had individuals belonging to H2a1a3, H3, H4a1a1a2, H7h, H11a, H82a."
I am currently reading Jean Manco's Ancestral Journeys, but she does not mention H11 at all.

AJL
05-11-2014, 03:16 AM
^H11a is oldish for Europe but not that common and because most people with this lineage are in areas that are not well covered by tests (Central and Eastern Europe), it is a fairly low-priority. Boris Malyarchuk studied it as much as was possible with the HVR1/HVR2 technology of 10 years ago, but we have moved a long way since then. Sadly, academics have not moved on, for the most part, from HVR1/2, and so hobbyists are now driving the phylogenetic trees for yDNA and mtDNA.

I should add that Maciamo's "rather than" appears limited to two possible scenarios: an expansion from the Franco-Cantabrian Refuge in Iberia (once posited as a massive population source but now largely discredited other than for a few haplogroups), and one from "north of the Black Sea." After the Last Glacial Maximum, there was an expansion from a refugium in the Balkans/Carpathians, which is west of the Black Sea rather than north of it and I think the likeliest source for H11a, but perhaps this is what he is referring to.

MJost
05-11-2014, 11:51 AM
Here is a blog by the H11 admin

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/mtdna_h11/default.aspx?section=mtresults

She posted this H11 info:
http://kippeeb.blogspot.com/2013/11/h11-haplogroup.html

MJost

BEH
05-11-2014, 05:19 PM
REPLY TO AJL: Mr. Logan sent me the sgn file this morning and I have emailed it off to Ms. Shafer, with the information about the families and ethnic background since my sample is unique. I also asked him what will happen next, as well as where the new subclade would go, if one is created. I'll let you know if he knows and responds. I also mentioned to him that as unlikely as it may seem there has actually been a book published on the village, Praputnjak, village croate, a revision of a French doctorate in architectural anthropology. A second edition later came out in Croatian. It too discusses these families and gives further information on them. If there is any interest in that, I have summaries (in English) of the main points.

BEH
05-11-2014, 05:29 PM
REPLY TO MJOST: Thank you for this information. It was in fact that blog by Elizabeth Kipp that renewed my interest in my H11a haplogroup. I wrote to her to ask where the person from Croatia was located, but unfortunately she had no further information. My information was not included in that blog as my results came out later. We then exchanged a few more emails, and I sent her the mitochondrial file from the Full Genomes Corporation analysis of my Family Tree DNA Big Y bam file. She found it interesting, she said, but she was just off to a conference, and so far she has not got back to me. She is very busy with her one One-Name project. She also said that she hoped to write another article about H11 in June, time permitting.
I note we are very close not only on the maternal side, but also on the paternal. My Big Y results show DF13 as the terminal SNP and negative for almost all of the subclades.

BEH
05-11-2014, 10:06 PM
Still not sure of how to proceed here, but in order to keep these two messages together, I am replying rather than posting a new thread. Heard from Mr. Logan, who says "I would expect it to be something like H11a8."

MJost
05-12-2014, 03:17 AM
I too have submitted my FGC BAM file FULL MtDNA which I converted to a Fasta file. And with the assistance of Ian Logan, I send it via a .sqn to Genbank. MY H11a2a now has a new mutation C12014T - there are only three the other sequences to date. The first is in L3h and the other 2 in H3a.

MJost

BEH
05-12-2014, 03:30 PM
Just heard again from Ian Logan, who now writes: "I was actually thinking about this a bit more.
And probably it is more likely the label would be H11c.

(It all rather depends on whether it is viewed as the T961G changing to
T961A,
or, perhaps slightly more likely, the ancestral T961 changing to T961A.)"

AJL
05-12-2014, 03:38 PM
Just heard again from Ian Logan, who now writes: "I was actually thinking about this a bit more.
And probably it is more likely the label would be H11c.

(It all rather depends on whether it is viewed as the T961G changing to
T961A,
or, perhaps slightly more likely, the ancestral T961 changing to T961A.)"

Yes that was the same question I had.

BEH
05-13-2014, 04:33 PM
Final thoughts from Ian Logan: Thinking about it:

T961A should be the common mutation, and T961G the odd one.

So , for the present I suggest, H11c.

BEH
05-17-2014, 04:04 PM
Just to let everyone know that Elizabeth Kipp posted on 16 May 2014 her half yearly review of the H11 group for which she is administrator at Family Tree DNA:
http://kippeeb.blogspot.ca/
At the moment it is the second item. She says "It would be interesting if others who belong to H11 would comment on this post giving their earliest known resting spot for their furtherest back ancestress. H11 is a small grouping and I think there is a potential that as a group we could add to the knowledge of our haplogroup simply by recording our known history in a systematic fashion. It is a thought that I will mention to any readers. "

AJL
05-17-2014, 04:33 PM
Many of us have already added that to our accounts, which as a project administrator, Elizabeth can see. Those who haven't added the information -- well, there always seem to be a little too many of those.

MJost
06-22-2014, 03:30 PM
I too have submitted my FGC BAM file FULL MtDNA which I converted to a Fasta file. And with the assistance of Ian Logan, I send it via a .sqn to Genbank. MY H11a2a now has a new mutation C12014T - there are only three the other sequences to date. The first is in L3h and the other 2 in H3a.

MJost
It's official, I have been accessioned and released via Genbank!

I thank Ian Logan for his most excellent assistance in converting my Fasta to a .sqn format which was submitted to Genbank, along with his follow up conversations.

Now the researchers need to find me a second kit to make it on the MtDNA tree.


MJost

Emmerson
07-29-2014, 03:03 PM
I too have submitted my FGC BAM file FULL MtDNA which I converted to a Fasta file. And with the assistance of Ian Logan, I send it via a .sqn to Genbank. MY H11a2a now has a new mutation C12014T - there are only three the other sequences to date. The first is in L3h and the other 2 in H3a.

MJost

Hi, what software or website did you use in doing this: "FGC BAM file FULL MtDNA which I converted to a Fasta file" Thxs

Torc Seanathair
08-03-2014, 02:10 PM
My wife is H11a. Her furthest known maternal ancestor was born in Philadelphia in 1772. The ancestor's maiden name was Roberson, which I believe to be Scottish. She married a German named Myers. In that area, she may also have had some German ancestry.

AJL
08-03-2014, 04:25 PM
My wife is H11a. Her furthest known maternal ancestor was born in Philadelphia in 1772. The ancestor's maiden name was Roberson, which I believe to be Scottish. She married a German named Myers. In that area, she may also have had some German ancestry.

This is interesting since my own maternal line sailed to Philadelphia and went on from there to New Jersey. In fact Roberson might well be Scottish Robertson or (more likely English) Robinson, but there are also names of documented Palatine, Huguenot, and Swiss immigrants to Philadelphia from the early 18th century that may have been changed to Roberson, e.g. Ruppert/Rupprecht, Robetes, Roehbach, Robuchon, etc.

Manzanita
08-13-2014, 05:15 AM
REPLY TO MJOST: Thank you for this information. It was in fact that blog by Elizabeth Kipp that renewed my interest in my H11a haplogroup. I wrote to her to ask where the person from Croatia was located, but unfortunately she had no further information. My information was not included in that blog as my results came out later. We then exchanged a few more emails, and I sent her the mitochondrial file from the Full Genomes Corporation analysis of my Family Tree DNA Big Y bam file. She found it interesting, she said, but she was just off to a conference, and so far she has not got back to me. She is very busy with her one One-Name project. She also said that she hoped to write another article about H11 in June, time permitting.
I note we are very close not only on the maternal side, but also on the paternal. My Big Y results show DF13 as the terminal SNP and negative for almost all of the subclades.

Hello: I am new to this site and a TOTAL neophyte regarding the subject - basically limited to what I see from my results on 23andME. My X chromosome is H11a. My mother's parents were from Podstrana near Split, Croatia. My grandfather's family name is Ciceric - derived from the area on the Istrian Peninsula named Ciceria - where the patrilineal ancestor moved from in the first decade of the 18th century (1706 as I recall). The ancestor took a family name from where he had come from. Ciceria is the area where the small Istro-Romanian population lives. 23andMe (sorry for quoting information from a retail source) shows that we have have Romanian in our ancestry, and even shows distant cousins on its "Relative Finder" page who were born in Transylvania. The village of Podstrana has one or two family names, and perhaps more) that imply Romanian ancestry - Glavinevic and Vlasic. Jeff (Portland, Oregon)

Manzanita
08-13-2014, 05:26 AM
Yes - I would like to see the summary regarding the families with H11a in Croatia. Thank you.

MJost
11-25-2014, 08:19 PM
Some new TMRCAs for H11


rho (ρ) ML
Clade WholemtDNA Synonymous WholemtDNA
Age CI Age CI Age CI
H11 13,700 6300–21,300 9,400 3900–14,800 11,600 5900–17,400
H11a 8500 5400–11,700 8400 2800–14,100 6900 4900–8900
H11a1 3700 300–7200 2200 0–5400 3500 300–6800
H11a2 11,400 4500–18,600 6600 2400–10,700 6300 4200–8500
H11a2a 6700 3100–10,300 6700 1500–11,800 5000 2700–700
H11a2a1 3100 0–6700 3100 0–7500 2700 0–5800
95% confidence intervals (CI) in thousands of years
Subclades carried by Ashkenazim are shown in pale blue.
regard the ML (maximum likelihood) values as the most reliable.
Supplementary Table S8.
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/pdf/ncomms3543.pdf
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/full/ncomms3543.html#supplementary-information
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/extref/ncomms3543-s1.pdf

95% confidence intervals (CI) in thousands of years
Subclades carried by Ashkenazim are shown in pale blue.
regard the ML (maximum likelihood) values as the most reliable.
Supplementary Table S8.
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/pdf/ncomms3543.pdf
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/full/ncomms3543.html#supplementary-information
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131008/ncomms3543/extref/ncomms3543-s1.pdf

BEH
02-20-2015, 12:15 AM
Just saw today your post from last August. My Croatian line is as follows: Most Distant Maternal Ancestor Catharina Bujan; Date of Birth unknown; Date of Death unknown; Date of Marriage 1 Feb 1722; Location of Origin Praputnjak, Bakar, Croatia. The line to Catharina Bujan, all living in this same village, is: Tadejević (Kate), Štiglić (Ana), Gecan (Maria Margaretha), Bujan (Petronilla), Fitnić (Margaretha). The surnames are said to be Vlach.

MJost
02-20-2015, 01:45 AM
Better late then never. H11 seems to have a north south central & eastern Europe presence.

MJost

BEH
02-26-2015, 12:37 AM
Further information connecting my ancestry and that of "Manzanita."
"In Dalmatia the inhabitants of such cities as Split, Zadar, Trogir and Ragusa long continued to use the Latin speech. In order to distinguish between themselves and the mountain shepherds (Arumanians, Kutzo-Vlachs, or Macedo-Rumans) they took to referring to the latter as 'Black Vlachs.' Records that date back as far as 1605 show that there was a numerous 'Vlach' population, which seems to have been of either Wallachian or Kutzo-Vlach origin, living around Bakar on the Dalmatian coast early in the sixteenth century if not before. They served the local nobility in the capacity of muleteers and cattle drivers, and they paid the desetina (tenth or tithe tax) to the city of Bakar. They were not serfs and in time of war they rendered service as cavalrymen to the Croatian lords. Tradition relates that they came with their flocks and herds to their present dwelling places but is silent as to the exact date. The land regulation (urbar) of Hreljin of 1608 names the people who had to pay the 'Wallach' tax. As in Istria, and also around Vinodol, Kastav, and on the island of Krk, these 'Wallachs' seem to have been cattle herders by choice rather than agriculturists. Of evident 'Vlach' origin are such names as Bujan, Kos (Črnić), Moderčin, Kanjer, Sudan, Tijan, Fitnić, Tadejević, Stiglić, and Kariolić. Together with the Istro-Rumanians these people of northern Dalmatia may represent the backwash of a great wave of Vlach migration that swept out of the Balkans into the coastal lands at some forgotten moment in history. As already mentioned, however, it is the writer's personal opinion that they came to the Croatian territories as military colonists to replace the original population dispersed by the Ottoman invasions."
Stanko Guldescu, The Croatian-Slavonian Kingdom 1526-1792 (The Hague: Mouton, 1970), 69.

MJost
02-26-2015, 03:14 AM
We know that there was an ancient MtDNA H11a sample found in the Unetice (2200-1575 BC) site, sample BZH1. Or maternal line has appeared some wide distances apart.

Neolithic mitochondrial haplogroup H genomes and the genetic origins of Europeans
Paul Brotherton et al 23 April 2013

Free PDF here:
http://repository.upenn.edu/anthro_papers/35

Supplementary information here.
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n4/abs/ncomms2656.html#supplementary-information

... data from the subsequent Early Bronze Age Unetice culture revealed haplotypes with genetic affinities to
both the East (sub-hg H2a, H7 and H11) and the West (sub-hg H3 and H4), based on
frequency distributions of these sub-hg in present-day populations...
Other Late Neolithic population movements appear to have added further genetic
complexity, as exemplified by the Corded Ware culture (CWC; 2800-2200 BC), which
preceded the Bell Beaker culture in Mittelelbe-Saale and has archaeological associations
with North-Eastern Europe. A genetic affinity to eastern populations is consistent with two
distinct CWC mt genomes (H1_TBD and H6a1a) not identified in either their
contemporaneous Bell Beaker neighbours or in preceding Central European cultures. The
subsequent Early Bronze Age Unetice culture, associated with emerging metallurgy and
increasingly stratified societies37,42, marks a consolidation of social and cultural systems in
Mittelelbe-Saale that were established during the Late Neolithic by the two pan-European
Bell Beaker and Corded Ware cultures. The Unetice culture appears contemporaneously
with the last Neolithic horizon (~2200 BC) in areas where elements of both the Bell Beaker
and Corded Ware cultures are present, sometimes overlapping at the same sites. It is
therefore not surprising that individuals ascribed to the newly emerging Unetice culture
carry mt genomes with both Western (sub-hgs H3 and H4) and Eastern (sub-hgs H2a, H7
and H11) associations.

If you review "Supplementary Table S8. Details of comparative Hg H sub-clade frequency data and geographic coordinates used for principal component analyses."



You will see where H11 has geographic counts:





Population
Abbreviation
H11


Slovakia66
SVK
12


Arabian
Peninsula265
8.3


Volga-Ural
region66
8


Czech
Republic63
6.5


Eastern
Slavs66
6.1


Balkans66
BLK
4


Lebanon64
LBN
2.9


Western
Isles63
2.6


Ossetia64
OSS
2.2


Estonia66
EST
2


Romania65
ROU
2


Karachay-Balkaria64
KBK
2


Iberian
Peninsula
1.9


Northwest
Caucasus64
1.4


Macedonia65
MKD
1.2


Turkey64
TUR
1.1


Austria65
AUT
0.4


Arabian
Peninsula64
0


Armenia64
ARM
0


Basques
(Vizcaya)63
0


Basques
(Guipuzcoa)63
0


Basques63
BMI
0


Bell
Beaker
0


Cantabria263
CAN
0


Cantabria3
(Potes)63
0


Cantabria4
(Pasiegos)63
0


Cantabria62
CNT
0


Catalonia62
CAT
0


Dagestan64
DAG
0


Finland66
FIN
0


France
Normandy63
0


France66
FRA
0


Galicia/Asturia63
GAS
0


Galicia62
GAL
0


Georgia64
GEO
0


Germany65
DEU
0


Jordan64
JOR
0


LinearPotterycultureLBK

0


Middle
Neolithic
0


Syria64
SYR
0



63. Garcia, O. et al. Using mitochondrial DNA to test the hypothesis of a European postglacial
human recolonization from the Franco-Cantabrian refuge. Heredity 106, 37-45 (2011).




MJost

MJost
02-26-2015, 03:24 AM
Just saw today your post from last August. My Croatian line is as follows: Most Distant Maternal Ancestor Catharina Bujan; Date of Birth unknown; Date of Death unknown; Date of Marriage 1 Feb 1722; Location of Origin Praputnjak, Bakar, Croatia. The line to Catharina Bujan, all living in this same village, is: Tadejević (Kate), Štiglić (Ana), Gecan (Maria Margaretha), Bujan (Petronilla), Fitnić (Margaretha). The surnames are said to be Vlach.

Well the Helen`11 line sure made its geographical rounds. Glad you posted your interesting information. Thanks.

MJost

BEH
02-26-2015, 04:38 PM
In re: "Supplementary Table S8. Details of comparative Hg H sub-clade frequency data and geographic coordinates used for principal component analyses."
Very interesting. The percentages for H11 in declining order are: Slovakia 12; Arabian Peninsula 8.3; Volga-Ural region 8; Czech Republic 6.5; Eastern Slavs 6.1; Balkans 4. After that, the next highest are: Lebanon 2.9, Western Isles 2.6, Ossetia 2.2, Karachay-Balkaria, Estonia and Romania 2.0, Iberian Peninsula NE 1.9, Northwest Caucasus 1.4, Macedonia 1.2, Turkey 1.1, and Austria 0.4.
Plenty of material here for speculation about possible origins and migration routes.

MJost
06-25-2015, 12:52 PM
RISE247 was MtDNA H11 from RISE247 buried Szazhalombatta-Foldvar, Hungary.

Population genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia
Allentoft etal
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/full/nature14507.html
Supplementary Table 14: mtDNA haplogroups

SampleID Haplogrep quality (%) Haplogroup [Polymorphisms]
RISE247 78.6 H11a [750G 961G 1438G 13759A 15326G 16293G 16311C]

http://www.y-str.org/p/ancient-dna.html
Felix Immanuel
RISE247 Szazhalombatta-Foldvar, Hungary M I-L1228 H11 3372 years


MJost

MJost
06-25-2015, 01:02 PM
Here is a nice Pin Map of the samples and one can scroll down on the index chart to the Bronze age section and click Left icon and point you to the exact location found.

http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#5/47.332/25.192

MJost

I1-Z63
10-28-2015, 06:58 PM
My wife is H11a. Her furthest known maternal ancestor was born in Philadelphia in 1772. The ancestor's maiden name was Roberson, which I believe to be Scottish. She married a German named Myers. In that area, she may also have had some German ancestry.

I am H11a, mother from dalmatia same as the BEH fellow from croatia too.

C J Wyatt III
10-28-2015, 08:50 PM
My wife is H11a. Her furthest known maternal ancestor was born in Philadelphia in 1772. The ancestor's maiden name was Roberson, which I believe to be Scottish. She married a German named Myers. In that area, she may also have had some German ancestry.

My mother (H5, not H11a) has four H11a's on her 'X one-to-one' match list and another two on her regular 'one-to-one' list who also have X-DNA connections when you use more reasonable parameters. Over the past year I have found that she has multiple connections to an ancestor in 18th Century North Carolina who fathered hundreds and hundreds of children with scores and scores of women. The women who that man mated with had been enslaved and apparently were brought to the Colonies by middle-men who obtained them from the Barbary Pirates. I believe the man to be a Thomas Edward Green who was born in Culpeper, Virginia in 1700. The females that were produced by the breeding generally were sold as brides and it is hard to find someone who has early American ancestry that does not have at least one line to Mr. Green. Needless to say, a lot of people have some made up ancestries for certain lines in their trees.

I have found that a match almost anywhere on my mother's X-Chromosome indicates a link to this human trafficking ring. Undoubtedly at least one of the enslaved women was in the H11a haplogroup.

I1-Z63
10-28-2015, 09:24 PM
My mother (H5, not H11a) has four H11a's on her 'X one-to-one' match list and another two on her regular 'one-to-one' list who also have X-DNA connections when you use more reasonable parameters. Over the past year I have found that she has multiple connections to an ancestor in 18th Century North Carolina who fathered hundreds and hundreds of children with scores and scores of women. The women who that man mated with had been enslaved and apparently were brought to the Colonies by middle-men who obtained them from the Barbary Pirates. I believe the man to be a Thomas Edward Green who was born in Culpeper, Virginia in 1700. The females that were produced by the breeding generally were sold as brides and it is hard to find someone who has early American ancestry that does not have at least one line to Mr. Green. Needless to say, a lot of people have some made up ancestries for certain lines in their trees.

I have found that a match almost anywhere on my mother's X-Chromosome indicates a link to this human trafficking ring. Undoubtedly at least one of the enslaved women was in the H11a haplogroup.

interesting story. I only have a Mollentz from my 'one-to-one' list from Germany.

BEH
11-29-2015, 06:26 PM
Where in Dalmatia, please?

MJost
02-20-2016, 07:55 PM
Dang it! Still no match for my H11a2 > 'very rare' C12014T in the new mtDNA tree Build 17.
7907

Does FtDNA submit source locations, if known, in their Genbank submissions?

MJost

curiousII
03-20-2016, 10:27 AM
I'm H11a. So, exactly how old is that subclade? I read that H11 is maybe 45,000 years old but I find no projected age of H11a.

I wonder why that is? How long has H11a been around?

curiousII
04-09-2016, 02:28 AM
I figured that as prevalent as the H mtDNA haplogroup is this would be a busy forum. Guess I'm wrong at times.

But H11, I had a brief discussion on another site about this. H11's supposed to be 40,000 plus years old. That's really antique, isn't it? That also means that H11 was the haplogroup that competed with the Neanderthals in their (Neanderthal) waning years. Obviously there were other groups present, but did they last to modern day like H11 did? Does that mean that H11 is a very durable haplogroup? Must be, as it's still here and the Neanderthals aren't.

And, any idea how old H11a is? Haven't been able to find that on the Web yet, which seems strange.

AJL
04-09-2016, 02:45 AM
I wish we knew. It seems to be one of the older subclades of H, but we also don't have that many samples at full resolution because it peaks around Central and Eastern Europe (Slovakia, Hungary, Austria, Romania, Macedonia, Croatia, Ukraine, etc.), which have many fewer people testing for genealogical reasons. It's crucial to have full mitochondrial samples when estimating the age rather than just HVR1, but ironically the scientific papers usually use only HVR1.

The study that gave an estimate of 44,000 ybp, plus or minus 18,000 years (note the huge margin), notably, was based on HVR1 only:

http://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-8-191

AJL
04-09-2016, 02:46 AM
Does FtDNA submit source locations, if known, in their Genbank submissions?

I'm not sure, back when I did mine I did it directly, but I still didn't know the country at that point.

AJL
04-09-2016, 02:51 AM
My mother (H5, not H11a) has four H11a's on her 'X one-to-one' match list and another two on her regular 'one-to-one' list who also have X-DNA connections when you use more reasonable parameters. Over the past year I have found that she has multiple connections to an ancestor in 18th Century North Carolina who fathered hundreds and hundreds of children with scores and scores of women. The women who that man mated with had been enslaved and apparently were brought to the Colonies by middle-men who obtained them from the Barbary Pirates. I believe the man to be a Thomas Edward Green who was born in Culpeper, Virginia in 1700. The females that were produced by the breeding generally were sold as brides and it is hard to find someone who has early American ancestry that does not have at least one line to Mr. Green. Needless to say, a lot of people have some made up ancestries for certain lines in their trees.

I have found that a match almost anywhere on my mother's X-Chromosome indicates a link to this human trafficking ring. Undoubtedly at least one of the enslaved women was in the H11a haplogroup.

My guess is she was a German or Swiss woman who came to NC, there were a number arriving in the early 18th century. There was a later wave to SC in the 1760s as well.

Saetro
04-10-2016, 12:20 AM
There are other ways to find geographical information.
FTDNA Haplogroup and Geographical Projects may have leads to geographical locations, helping to reduce possibilities and then use the system to contact relevant matches.

curiousII
04-21-2016, 05:29 PM
I just read that FTDNA's having a sale on its tests set to start in a couple of days. No idea of the discounts, but they should be a little more affordable for a time.

Their mtDNA Full Sequence test is pretty much mandatory for figuring out that side of your heritage; the other tests will still leave a lot to guesswork.

Huntergatherer1066
04-21-2016, 06:50 PM
It will be on sale for $149 which is a great price compared to the usual sale discount. The sale should start later today.

curiousII
04-21-2016, 08:52 PM
It will be on sale for $149 which is a great price compared to the usual sale discount. The sale should start later today.

Right, and I just found this from the FTDNA site. The post I got this from says these prices are good until "Tuesday evening," and I think that refers to April 26th. Here's the tests, the regular prices, and the sales prices:

Family Finder: $99, $79

mtDNA Full Sequence: $199, $149

YDNA 37: $169, $129

YDNA 67: $268, $199

YDNA 111: $359, $289

BigY: $575, $460

YDNA SNP Packs: $119, $109

jmadi
04-29-2016, 07:25 PM
I am H11a haplogroup..and I am half polish and half Puerto Rican

C J Wyatt III
04-29-2016, 07:35 PM
I am H11a haplogroup..and I am half polish and half Puerto Rican

How far back with confidence do you know your maternal line?

Thanks,

Jack

Sashka
07-06-2016, 02:39 AM
Hello, just adding to this thread. My mitochondrial DNA test came back as H11a. I can trace my maternal ancestors back to Jakovica Brajkovic who was born circa 1644 in Živogošće, Dalmatia.

Dibran
02-13-2017, 12:38 AM
Hello,

My mitochondrial DNA test came back as H11a(23andme) doing LivindDNA(not sure if that will expand it further). I can trace my maternal ancestor only a few generations. They have been In Kosova, Gjakova. We are Albanian.

MJost
02-13-2017, 02:06 AM
Welcome all H11a's that have reported in. Thank you!

gcrete
03-24-2017, 05:05 PM
I'm H11a2a3

gcrete
03-24-2017, 05:08 PM
I'm H11a2a3 as well. My maternal line goes back to Clementsport Nova Scotia... not sure where before that but some indications would lean toward Hessen, Germany

AJL
03-24-2017, 10:51 PM
Welcome! My H112a3 came Germany > PA > NJ > ON. Hesse would make a great deal of sense for this subclade.

erdo
06-02-2017, 07:56 AM
Welcome all H11a's that have reported in. Thank you!

I'm H11a too. Just made an account. :)

kippeeb
08-24-2017, 06:17 PM
I am H11a2a1 with 100% English ancestry thus far in my trace-back (although I may have some Huguenot back in the 1500s in Somerset). My father and three of my four grandparents were born in England (their ancestry from a number of different counties - Devon, Somerset, Dorset, Wiltshire, Hampshire, Surrey, Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Staffordshire, East Riding of Yorkshire, Cumberland and Berkshire. My fourth grandfather was born in Canada but his father was from Devon and his mother's parents were from Cumberland and the East Riding of Yorkshire. This haplogroup has been verified by testing with FT DNA (initial), 23 and Me, BritainsDNA and now Living DNA. I am the administrator of the H11 project at FT DNA. My mtDNA is my least known ancestral line. My maternal grandmother was born in Birmingham (St Martins) and her mother listed as Ellen Buller formerly Taylor, her father was Edwin Denner Buller. Ellen (Taylor) Buller died in 1897 at 37 years of age (verified by records and orally by her eldest daughter who was 11 years of age at the time (my grandmother)). Some of the information passed to me by her mention a possible Irish ancestry (my grandmother died when I was 20 and I am now 71 so the memories are long ago!). The Living DNA results which I just received pinpoint fairly accurately my ancestral lines and looking at my great grandparents there are only a couple of regions that do not fit into the other seven and they are Northern Ireland and South West Scotland and Aberdeenshire. These particular mutations are found in a possible migration path from the Ukraina Ice Refuge coming north into Finland and Sweden where some still have these mutations today and then the Blood of the Isles Database locates these mutations in Ayrshire/Argyllshire. Is the Aberdeenshire an ancient echo of these early migrations? However that being said I do have Routledge from Cumberland and they were initially a Highland Scot Clan and both husband and wife were Routledge (3x great grandparents) and 2nd cousins once removed. So could also be from this Bewcastle, Cumberland line. I am trying to do a newsletter which can be seen on the H11 FT DNA website and I also put it on my blog (Nov, Feb, May and Aug). I look forward to discussions on this forum.

Dibran
09-05-2017, 09:32 PM
Hello,

My mitochondrial DNA test came back as H11a(23andme) doing LivindDNA(not sure if that will expand it further). I can trace my maternal ancestor only a few generations. They have been In Kosova, Gjakova. We are Albanian.

LivingDNA back tracked me to H. So, idk what that means for my H11a status. Currently doing FGC Yelite which includes mtdna read. Will update once I receive my results.

curiousII
10-02-2017, 07:16 PM
I have a question, if I may. I am in an FTDNA geographic/family name project that both my mom's maiden name and my mtDNA haplogroup, H11a, match with. It deals with families on the English/Scottish border: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/border-reiver-dna/about/background

Browsing through the FTDNA projects, I noticed there were a few (dozen or so) H11a's in this project: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ireland-mt-dna/about/background

Both of those are UK-centered projects. Yet, when a GD 0 mtDNA match of mine tried to join the Border Reiver project, he was denied due to his lack of matching y-DNA with the specific family name he had ancestral ties to (maybe that was correct), and that H11a isn't native to Scotland/England, hence he had no way to prove his connection with that project's goals (maybe that decision is questionable).

I thought this was brusque treatment, actually. But it is true, H11a isn't from the UK. But it's also not specifically Asian, is it? I've read that it "wintered the LGM" in Western Asia or something before expanding West, but it's true point of origins is where? I have also read in the FTDNA H11 Project that it may have begun in the Lithuania region; is that true?

It's spread through the UK and the European North now, I know, but when and how far back did all that happen? The original European mitochondrial DNA haplogroup was U and its offshoots and mutations? Like U2 and U5? Those froze during the Ice Age? From Eupedia, "Post-LGM recolonisation of Europe:" http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_H_mtDNA.shtml#history

When do you figure H11a first crossed the Channel into the UK?

ChemProf
11-01-2017, 08:19 PM
I'm H11a2 according to 23andMe, H11a2a2 according to WeGene, and best match imperfect match H11a2a2 according to James Lick:

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(9): 263G 1438G 5585A 8448C 8860G 13759A 15670C (16092C) 16140C
Flips(1): 961C
Extras(38): 65D 71I 191D 249I 291D 299I 337I 459D 498I 595D 613G 1646G 2074I 2156D 2395I 2405D 3172D 3377G 3734G 3947G 4296A 4317I 4410T 5533G 5537D 5752D 5815T 7471D 7527A 7672T 8276D 8281D 8286D 8364G 12184G 12208G 15198T 16256T
Untested(8): 195 750 4769 14587 15326 16265 16293 16311

My maternal great-great-grandmother was from somewhere in the Russian empire. Sorry I can't be more specific than that at the moment, am working on tracing her.

Dibran
11-07-2017, 01:32 AM
My Mtdna full sequence came back. I am H11a2. Where does this line originate?

curiousII
02-05-2018, 04:02 AM
Concerning H11a, one of the Family Tree H11 Project members posted this link to a paper about a fossil found in Lithuania: Spiginas1, ca 4444-4240 BC. This appears to be definitive at the moment for H11a age approximation: http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/03/03/113241.full.pdf

Spingas1 is in the chart on Page 24, fourth one down. Anyone seen any H11a fossil finds that predate Spingas1?