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Amathusian
06-17-2017, 12:50 PM
Y-chromosomal analysis of Greek Cypriots reveals a primarily common pre-Ottoman paternal ancestry with Turkish Cypriots.

Alexandros Heraclides , Evy Bashiardes , Eva Fernández-Domínguez, Stefania Bertoncini, Marios Chimonas, Vasilis Christofi, Jonathan King, Bruce Budowle, Panayiotis Manoli, Marios A. Cariolou A. PlosOne (Published: June 16, 2017).

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0179474

The paper also includes an overview of Y-haplogroup distribution among Greeks and Turks by region, after combining all relevant data from the literature.

wandering_amorite
06-17-2017, 01:17 PM
Y-chromosomal analysis of Greek Cypriots reveals a primarily common pre-Ottoman paternal ancestry with Turkish Cypriots.

Alexandros Heraclides , Evy Bashiardes , Eva Fernández-Domínguez, Stefania Bertoncini, Marios Chimonas, Vasilis Christofi, Jonathan King, Bruce Budowle, Panayiotis Manoli, Marios A. Cariolou A. PlosOne (Published: June 16, 2017).

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0179474

The paper also includes an overview of Y-haplogroup distribution among Greeks and Turks by region, after combining all relevant data from the literature.

Always good to see the cousins. Yet another study that has Greek Cypriots w/the highest rate of E-M34 of any large-sample population. Can anyone glean any downstream markers?

kingjohn
06-17-2017, 01:33 PM
about e-m123 in the paper from what i understand
that there is a diffrence between greek cypriotes{13% m123} and turkish cypriotes{6.3% m123 } in the frequency %
the paper say e-m123 is probably south levantine in origin have to agree.......
regards
adam

p.s
that is The second paper who found e-m123 in greek cypriotes the previews paper found 10% e-m123 it is there for sure ....
maybe it arrived in bronze age period or even before :)
who knows maybe george michael or cat stevens were e-m123 lol :)

Amathusian
06-17-2017, 05:14 PM
Indeed the frequency of E-M123 among Cypriots is surprisingly high.. Most of it belongs to subclade E-M84, although the specific SNP has not been tested in this paper. In my opinion it is very likely that E-M123 entered Cyprus from the Levant as early as the Neolithic.

Principe
06-17-2017, 08:55 PM
I manually Nevgen Predicted all the Turkish Cypriot J2 from this study and there is 83:

The Breakdown according to the Nevgen Predictor:

1. J2a1-Z7700: 16 (J-F3133 on Yfull)
2. J2a1-M319: 11
3. J2a1-Z500: 11 (would be interesting to see how many are M92)
4. J2a1-PF5191: 11
5. J2a1-Z387: 7 (I think the breakdown would be interesting)
6. J2a1-Z6065: 6
7. J2a1-L210: 5
8. J2b-M205: 5
9. J2b-M241: 3 (All most likely under L283)
10. J2a2-PF5008: 3
11. J2a1-PF7431: 3
12. J2a1-S25258:1
13. J2a1-Z7671: 1

I will do the same for the Greek Cypriots and see the differences.

Afshar
06-17-2017, 09:00 PM
Wow they have the same haplogroups so they are cousins...what a mess.

Agamemnon
06-17-2017, 09:28 PM
I'm not so sure E-M123 entered Cyprus from the Levant during the Neolithic, that's certainly a possibility, however the authors state that:

"The MJN analysis revealed that GCy haplotypes (coloured blue in Fig 2) appear in a more basal position than TCy haplotypes.(coloured red in Fig 2) in specific haplogroups, such as E-M78, while other haplogroups do not have any specific structure. Only two haplogroup networks (E-M123 and E-M78) reveal star-like agglutinations of some haplotypes or sub-clusters compatible with population expansion events (black ovals in Fig 2). Time expansions for these were estimated at 4018 years ago (+/- 507 DS) and 753 years ago (+/- 329 DS), respectively. Repeating the analysis using 12 STR loci, resulted in somewhat differently shaped networks, which however provided the same results, with only the aforementioned haplogroups showing evidence of star-like constructions (S3 Fig). Expansion times using an alternative formula (see Methods) and using 12-loci were very similar to those reported above. Overall, haplotype variation appeared to overlap between GCy and TCy, with no clear clustering of haplotypes based on ethnic background observed."

That doesn't sound wholly consistent with an entry during the Neolithic, Neolithic data from Cyprus is needed to clear this up. What I can say however is that the authors are dead wrong as far as J1 is of concern:

"The main feature distinguishing Cypriots from Lebanese and other Middle Easterners included in our analysis is their much lower frequency of haplogroup J1. This observation clearly suggests that although Cypriots and Lebanese share common paternal roots, the latter received a substantial influx from populations high in J1, probably during the early Arab conquest era (7th cent. AD). Similarly, North Africans also are particularly high in haplogroup E-M81, which is extremely rare (TCy) or absent (GCy) in Cyprus."

While Arabian branches of J1 are found in Lebanon, most of the J1 in Lebanon does not seem to be Arabian in origin, much less related to the expansion of Islam. J1-P58 was already present in Lebanon during the Bronze Age (as demonstrated by its presence in one of the Middle Bronze Age Sidonians), so I very much doubt that the current J1 frequencies in Lebanon are to be attributed to an "influx from populations high in J1" during the 7th century CE.

Either way, it's a shame they didn't take the time to uncover the subclades under each marker.

Amathusian
06-18-2017, 12:00 PM
I manually Nevgen Predicted all the Turkish Cypriot J2 from this study and there is 83:

The Breakdown according to the Nevgen Predictor:

1. J2a1-Z7700: 16 (J-F3133 on Yfull)
2. J2a1-M319: 11
3. J2a1-Z500: 11 (would be interesting to see how many are M92)
4. J2a1-PF5191: 11
5. J2a1-Z387: 7 (I think the breakdown would be interesting)
6. J2a1-Z6065: 6
7. J2a1-L210: 5
8. J2b-M205: 5
9. J2b-M241: 3 (All most likely under L283)
10. J2a2-PF5008: 3
11. J2a1-PF7431: 3
12. J2a1-S25258:1
13. J2a1-Z7671: 1

I will do the same for the Greek Cypriots and see the differences.

Great Principe, please let us know! Given that the majority of Greek Cypriot samples have been SNP-tested, it would be good to see whether the Nevgen predictor is in agreement with the SNP testing..

Amathusian
06-18-2017, 12:16 PM
@Agamemnon

I see your point about E-M123, but still to me it makes sense that since E-Z830 (ancestral to E-M123) has been found among Natufians in South Levant, very likely E-M123 has evolved there, some time during the Neolithic and moved from there to Cyprus. Unless there were no population movements from the Levant to Cyprus during the Neolithic, which I find hard to believe. The mystery however is why E-M123 is much more common among Cypriots than among modern Levantine populations (maybe with the exception of Jordanians)?

Agamemnon
06-18-2017, 01:40 PM
@Agamemnon

I see your point about E-M123, but still to me it makes sense that since E-Z830 (ancestral to E-M123) has been found among Natufians in South Levant, very likely E-M123 has evolved there, some time during the Neolithic and moved from there to Cyprus. Unless there were no population movements from the Levant to Cyprus during the Neolithic, which I find hard to believe. The mystery however is why E-M123 is much more common among Cypriots than among modern Levantine populations (maybe with the exception of Jordanians)?

I'd argue that the Natufians being E-Z830*, that is to say negative for M123, does a disfavour to this scenario, M123's absence is hard to explain considering the fact that E-M123 is roughly 20,000 years old... That doesn't mean E-M123 wasn't already present in the area, it might even turn out to be a prominent marker among the Natufians. That being said, the expansion estimate suggests an arrival during the EB IV period in Cyprus, the authors themselves state that...

"Also, our MJN analysis revealed a population expansion for two clusters within two major haplogroups (E-M123 and E-M78) which happened the earliest ~3500 years ago for the former and ~400 years ago for the latter. The population expansion in the former haplogroup appears to have occurred during late Bronze Age / early Iron Age, while for the latter the expansion could overlap the end of the Venetian era and start of the Ottoman era in Cyprus. Overall, the networks do not support differential mutations in the two populations, indicating that GCy and TCy haplotypes expanded together at a large extent, but at the same time this analysis cannot prove that one population is derived from the other."

There's much to bet the same observations could be made for J1 in Cyprus, as E-M34 and J1-P58 are often found in the same places, however the authors chose not to focus on J1. Regarding your last question, I think the answer is rather simple, namely, because E-M123 was far more common in the region by the past, around ~17% of Ashkenazi Jews are E-M123, so Western Jews are, along with Cypriots, one of the populations with the highest M123 frequencies out there. Incidentally, many Jews are E-Z830 (xM123) as well, so this just gives more weight to such a scenario. The only places in the Levant with high E-M123 frequencies are the Jordanian coasts of the Dead Sea, a relatively isolated area. So I'd wager Cyprus' insular character contributed to the high E-M123 frequencies we're seeing.

kingjohn
06-18-2017, 02:32 PM
could be as e-m123 was present in late bronze age /early iron age armenia
so maybe it was a big bronze age expansion probably from south levant to cyprus
and also north east to armenia area .
today m123 is low in armenia


regards
Adam


p.s
only ancient dna from cyprus can solve this question better from some periods .... neolithic, Chalcolithic , bronze age , iraon age
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Cyprus

wandering_amorite
06-18-2017, 02:37 PM
could be as e-m123 was present in late bronze age /early iron age armenia
so maybe it was a big bronze age expansion probably from south levant to cyprus
and also north east to armenia area .
today m123 is low in armenia


regards
Adam


p.s
only ancient dna from cyprus can solve this question better from some periods .... neolithic, Chalcolithic , bronze age , iraon age
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Cyprus

Still surprisingly common among Kurds and Turks in Eastern Anatolia!

kingjohn
06-18-2017, 02:50 PM
it is also high in palestinians
almost as high as in cyprus
http://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(08)00547-8

Zalloua et al. (2008) found 26 E-M123 cases in Cyprus, out of 164 men tested; and 27 Palestinians out of 291 tested. This was apparently higher than the level of E-M78.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-M123#CITEREFZallouaPlattEl_SibaiKhalife2008

Principe
06-18-2017, 03:44 PM
Great Principe, please let us know! Given that the majority of Greek Cypriot samples have been SNP-tested, it would be good to see whether the Nevgen predictor is in agreement with the SNP testing..

I just finished, I am going to post the results of the Greek Cypriot J2 and compare the two. The J2 samples are not well snp tested, for J2a they give you J-M410 or L26 and for J2b they have M205 or M102 predicted, anyways I nevgen predicted all of them to make sure, and 3 J2's in the Turkish Cypriot set were actually better predicted as T's thats why I got 83 instead of the 86 posted.

Principe
06-18-2017, 03:56 PM
For Greek Cypriot J2 there was 102 samples, I nevgen predicted all of them as well.

Here is the Breakdown:

1. J2b-M205: 16
2. J2a1-Z387: 14
3. J2a1-M319: 13
4. J2a1-Z500: 12
5. J2a1-Z7700: 10 (J-F3133 on Yfull)
6. J2a1-PF5191: 7
7. J2a1-S25258: 7
8. J2a2-PF5008: 7
9. J2a1-L210: 6
10. J2b-M241: 4
11. J2a1-Z7671: 3
12. J2a1-Z6065: 3

Principe
06-18-2017, 04:40 PM
Now to compare Greek and Turkish Cypriot J2 there is quite a few notable differences and observations to be made. First the Turkish Cypriots have a J2a lineage that is unique to them which is J2a1-PF7431, it seems that this J2a was brought into Cyprus from the Turks. The remaining 12 are all the same but different frequencies of course. The largest J2a amongst the Turkish Cypriots is J2a-Z7700 (J-F3133) at 16 of 83 samples or 19.2% while in Greek Cypriots it is 10 out of 102 or 9.8%, J-F3133 has many branches and there is probably shared lineages and also specific Turkish Cypriot J-F3133 lineages for it to be double than the Greek Cypriots. The largest J2 lineage amongst Greek Cypriots is J2b-M205 at 16 of 102 (15.8%) and amongst Turkish Cypriots it is much lower at 5 of 83 (6%), this can be due to where the people were sampled as J2b-M205 is a definite Levantine line as we started seeing it in the ancient samples of Sidon, Roman Gladiator, Bronze Age Jordan and Egypt.

There is sharp increases and decreases in certain lineages as well, in Turkish Cypriot J2a-S25258 was found in 1 out of 83, while in Greek Cypriot samples it was found in 7, same with J2a-Z7671 as it was found in 1 Turkish Cypriot, while being found in 3 Greek Cypriots. Also J2a2-PF5008 was found in 3 Turkish Cypriots and more than doubles being found in 7 Greek Cypriots. The largest increase though is found in J2a-Z387 as it was found in 7 Turkish Cypriots and it doubles to 14 amongst Greek Cypriots reaching 13.7% and is the second most common in Greek Cypriots. In retrospect J2a-PF5191 and J2a-Z6065 increase in Turkish Cypriots, J2a-PF5191 is found in 7 Greek Cypriots while it is found in 11 Turkish Cypriots. J2a-Z6065 is found in 6 Turkish Cypriots and decreases in half to 3 in Greek Cypriot samples, this may be due to different subclades of the two.

The remaining 4 lineages have more or less the same frequency amongst both populations. J2a-L210 is found in 5 Turkish Cypriot samples and 6 Greek Cypriot samples staying at around 6%, the same can be said for J2b-M241 as it is found in 3 Turkish Cypriots and 4 Greek Cypriots staying at around the 3.5-4% range. J2a-Z500 also remains the same at 11 Turkish Cypriot samples and 12 Greek Cypriot samples staying around the 12% range and J2a-M319 does the same being found also in 11 Turkish Cypriot samples and 13 Greek Cypriot samples also around the 12% range.

More extensive research or look needs to be done, because many of these subclades are old and have many downstreams for example just under J2a-Z7671 there is 4 major branches.

basmaci
06-19-2017, 08:04 AM
Quoted from the paper.

"Regarding the relatively high frequency of Eastern Eurasian haplogroups among TCy, which is not much lower than those observed among mainland Turks, it should be noted that some of the original Ottoman solders (e.g. the Azabs, the Sekban, and the Akinci) did not originate from Anatolia, but from other regions of the Ottoman Empire, including regions of the Caucasus and Central Asia, comprising of ethnic groups such as Tatars, Nogay, and Turkmen, which could provide a potential explanation for this observation."

How could they come up with such ridiculous "potential explanation"? This is what happens when they pretend to be historians.

This part is pure gold. :\
original Ottoman solders (e.g. the Azabs, the Sekban, and the Akinci)

These were the names of the military units that were formed long after the establishment of the Ottoman Beylik/Principality.

Early Ottomans were basically warrior ghazis and tribesmen following Osman I
https://i.hizliresim.com/WQZM0Q.jpg (https://hizliresim.com/WQZM0Q)



Akinjis (meaing raiders) were composed of tribal Turks from Anatolia with a leading dynasty that descended from the warrior ghazis of the first Ottoman ruler Osman I.

Azabs (meaning bachelors) were light infantrymen that were positioned at the center of the army together with Janissaries.

Sekbans were a unit from a much later period.


Nogays and Tatars were not part of these units, not to mention Turkmens of Central Asia who were not even part of the Ottoman Empire. The Crimean Khanate accepted Ottoman protection during Mengli Giray's reign and Crimean Tatars became the vanguard of the Ottoman Army and replaced Akinji units, but what does it have anything to do with Cyprus?

The Turkish migration to Cyprus and its details are already documented, why come up with such ridiculous historical explanations?

Transfer of Qizilbash Turkmens from Anatolia to Cyprus http://www.unm.edu/~phooper/thesis_condensed.pdf
https://i.hizliresim.com/7Nb0Vv.png (https://hizliresim.com/7Nb0Vv)
https://i.hizliresim.com/9d5J93.png (https://hizliresim.com/9d5J93)





"Another potential explanation could be that the Ottoman settlers of the 16th century and their ancestors, were particularly successful in passing on their genes (i.e. had a relatively high number of offspring), which would then lead to some kind of genetic drift, increasing thus the frequency of Eastern Eurasian haplogroups."

The haplogroups that came to Cyprus with the migration of mainland Turks (e.g. Qizilbash) were not necessarily East Eurasian, in fact West Eurasian haplogroups were predominant among those Turks.

Amathusian
06-19-2017, 08:02 PM
Quoted from the paper.

"Regarding the relatively high frequency of Eastern Eurasian haplogroups among TCy, which is not much lower than those observed among mainland Turks, it should be noted that some of the original Ottoman solders (e.g. the Azabs, the Sekban, and the Akinci) did not originate from Anatolia, but from other regions of the Ottoman Empire, including regions of the Caucasus and Central Asia, comprising of ethnic groups such as Tatars, Nogay, and Turkmen, which could provide a potential explanation for this observation."

How could they come up with such ridiculous "potential explanation"? This is what happens when they pretend to be historians.

This part is pure gold. :\
original Ottoman solders (e.g. the Azabs, the Sekban, and the Akinci)

These were the names of the military units that were formed long after the establishment of the Ottoman Beylik/Principality.

Early Ottomans were basically warrior ghazis and tribesmen following Osman I
https://i.hizliresim.com/WQZM0Q.jpg (https://hizliresim.com/WQZM0Q)



Akinjis (meaing raiders) were composed of tribal Turks from Anatolia with a leading dynasty that descended from the warrior ghazis of the first Ottoman ruler Osman I.

Azabs (meaning bachelors) were light infantrymen that were positioned at the center of the army together with Janissaries.

Sekbans were a unit from a much later period.


Nogays and Tatars were not part of these units, not to mention Turkmens of Central Asia who were not even part of the Ottoman Empire. The Crimean Khanate accepted Ottoman protection during Mengli Giray's reign and Crimean Tatars became the vanguard of the Ottoman Army and replaced Akinji units, but what does it have anything to do with Cyprus?

The Turkish migration to Cyprus and its details are already documented, why come up with such ridiculous historical explanations?

Transfer of Qizilbash Turkmens from Anatolia to Cyprus http://www.unm.edu/~phooper/thesis_condensed.pdf
https://i.hizliresim.com/7Nb0Vv.png (https://hizliresim.com/7Nb0Vv)
https://i.hizliresim.com/9d5J93.png (https://hizliresim.com/9d5J93)





"Another potential explanation could be that the Ottoman settlers of the 16th century and their ancestors, were particularly successful in passing on their genes (i.e. had a relatively high number of offspring), which would then lead to some kind of genetic drift, increasing thus the frequency of Eastern Eurasian haplogroups."

The haplogroups that came to Cyprus with the migration of mainland Turks (e.g. Qizilbash) were not necessarily East Eurasian, in fact West Eurasian haplogroups were predominant among those Turks.

Very comprehensive analysis, but how can you explain then that the frequency of Eastern Eurasian haplogroups is much higher among Turkish Cypriots than among Greek Cypriots? In Greek Cypriots they practicality do not exist, as is the case for all other Eastern Mediterranean populations, apart from mainland Turks. Is this just coincidental??

Amathusian
06-19-2017, 08:05 PM
@Principe
Your analysis of the J2 haplotypes is beyond words. Thanks for that! Can you elaborate a bit more on the ancestral significance of some of these J2 subclades? Thanks.

Principe
06-19-2017, 09:23 PM
@Principe
Your analysis of the J2 haplotypes is beyond words. Thanks for that! Can you elaborate a bit more on the ancestral significance of some of these J2 subclades? Thanks.

My pleasure :) I am now working on other haplogroups, I am posting J1 breakdown right now, do you have any particular questions about specific J2 subclades?

Principe
06-19-2017, 09:31 PM
For the Breakdown of J1 based on Nevgen predictors.

For Turkish Cypriots, the number is 37

1. J1-P58: 26
2. J1-Z1828: 9
3. J1-PF7263: 1
4. J1-PF7257: 1

For the Greek Cypriots, the number is 31

1. J1-P58: 28
2. J1-Z1828: 2
3. J1-PF7263: 1

I leave the J1 experts to have their analysis, essentially over 80% of J1 in Cyprus is Levantine in origin it seems. Unfortunately J1-P58 is very old and does not really say much about the breakdown, for those familiar with J1-P58 lineages, I noticed 3 patterns, the 1st DYS385 is 13-19, 12-19, 13-20 for 1 specific lineage, the 2nd is that DYS458 is higher than 18 so 19,20,21 for the next lineage I know is J1-Z640 because even though I am J2 I get many J1-Z640 matches at Y12 level (obviously not real matches) for those who looked very similar to my results.

Principe
06-19-2017, 10:34 PM
For the Breakdown of Haplogroups T and L, based on Nevgen Predictors.

Turkish Cypriots had more T and L than Greek Cypriots, in fact almost 3x more T.

Greek Cypriot T, number is 5

1. T-L208: 4
2. T-Y11151: 1

Turkish Cypriot T, the number is 14

1. T-L208: 12
2. T-L131: 2

For Greek Cypriot L, the number is 4

1. L-L595: 2
2. L-M317: 2

For Turkish Cypriot L, the number is 6

1. L-M317: 3
2. L-M27: 2
3. L-M357: 1

I think from these results L1b-M317 and T-L208 lineages have been in Cyprus pretty long.

wandering_amorite
06-19-2017, 11:05 PM
Can anyone report on the breakdown of E (and particularly E-M123) clades?

Principe
06-20-2017, 01:09 AM
The Breakdown of Haplogroup E for Greek and Turkish Cypriots, this is the last one I am doing for the day

For Turkish Cypriot E, the number is 86 and all are manually nevgen predicted

1. E-V13>Z5017: 26
2. E-M84: 18
3. E-V22: 12
4. E-V12>CTS693: 7
5. E-L791: 7
6. E-M81: 6
7. E-V12>V32: 4
8. E-V13>S7461: 3
9. E-V65: 1
10. E-M4225: 1 (E1b1a)
11. E-Y1623 : 1 (E1b1a)

For Greek Cypriot E, the number is 99

1. E-M84: 46
2. E-V13>Z5017>Z17264: 20
3. E-V22: 9
4. E-V13>S7461: 8
5. E-V13>Z5018>Y3183: 6
6. E-L791: 5
7. E-Z830: 3
8. E-M123 (xM34): 1
9. E-V12>CTS693: 1

E presents a very interesting story in Cyprus, it looks like E-M84, E-L791 and E-Z830 might represent the neolithic or Copper Age Cypriots and finding specific E-V13 subclades like Z5017 might actually help understand which E-V13 line represents the Ancient Greeks, I also find this E-V13>S7461 quite interesting its oldest splits on Yfull look to be in the alps. The Turkish Cypriots also carry many additional North African and African lines than the Greek Cypriot population, with E-V65, E-M81, E-V32 (E-V68), E-M4225 and E-Y1623.

wandering_amorite
06-20-2017, 01:23 AM
The Breakdown of Haplogroup E for Greek and Turkish Cypriots, this is the last one I am doing for the day

For Turkish Cypriot E, the number is 86 and all are manually nevgen predicted

1. E-V13>Z5017: 26
2. E-M84: 18
3. E-V22: 12
4. E-V12>CTS693: 7
5. E-L791: 7
6. E-M81: 6
7. E-V12>V32: 4
8. E-V13>S7461: 3
9. E-V65: 1
10. E-M4225: 1 (E1b1a)
11. E-Y1623 : 1 (E1b1a)

For Greek Cypriot E, the number is 99

1. E-M84: 46
2. E-V13>Z5017>Z17264: 20
3. E-V22: 9
4. E-V13>S7461: 8
5. E-V13>Z5018>Y3183: 6
6. E-L791: 5
7. E-Z830: 3
8. E-M123 (xM34): 1
9. E-V12>CTS693: 1

E presents a very interesting story in Cyprus, it looks like E-M84, E-L791 and E-Z830 might represent the neolithic or Copper Age Cypriots and finding specific E-V13 subclades like Z5017 might actually help understand which E-V13 line represents the Ancient Greeks, I also find this E-V13>S7461 quite interesting its oldest splits on Yfull look to be in the alps. The Turkish Cypriots also carry many additional North African and African lines than the Greek Cypriot population, with E-V65, E-M81, E-V32 (E-V68), E-M4225 and E-Y1623.

This is big! Once again, E-L791 rarer than E-M84. But now we can confirm it in non-trivial numbers in Cyprus.

wandering_amorite
06-20-2017, 03:44 AM
The Breakdown of Haplogroup E for Greek and Turkish Cypriots, this is the last one I am doing for the day

For Turkish Cypriot E, the number is 86 and all are manually nevgen predicted

1. E-V13>Z5017: 26
2. E-M84: 18
3. E-V22: 12
4. E-V12>CTS693: 7
5. E-L791: 7
6. E-M81: 6
7. E-V12>V32: 4
8. E-V13>S7461: 3
9. E-V65: 1
10. E-M4225: 1 (E1b1a)
11. E-Y1623 : 1 (E1b1a)

For Greek Cypriot E, the number is 99

1. E-M84: 46
2. E-V13>Z5017>Z17264: 20
3. E-V22: 9
4. E-V13>S7461: 8
5. E-V13>Z5018>Y3183: 6
6. E-L791: 5
7. E-Z830: 3
8. E-M123 (xM34): 1
9. E-V12>CTS693: 1

E presents a very interesting story in Cyprus, it looks like E-M84, E-L791 and E-Z830 might represent the neolithic or Copper Age Cypriots and finding specific E-V13 subclades like Z5017 might actually help understand which E-V13 line represents the Ancient Greeks, I also find this E-V13>S7461 quite interesting its oldest splits on Yfull look to be in the alps. The Turkish Cypriots also carry many additional North African and African lines than the Greek Cypriot population, with E-V65, E-M81, E-V32 (E-V68), E-M4225 and E-Y1623.

Also, any downstream markers for L791?

Principe
06-20-2017, 04:36 AM
Also, any downstream markers for L791?

Yes, for the first sample set (Turkish Cypriots) 5 of the 7 were Y4972
the other two were E-Y6923 your clade, and 4 of the 5 in the second set (Greek Cypriots) Y4972 and the other being Y6923.

wandering_amorite
06-20-2017, 04:41 AM
Yes, for the first sample set (Turkish Cypriots) 5 of the 7 were Y4972
the other two were E-Y6923 your clade, and 4 of the 5 in the second set (Greek Cypriots) Y4972 and the other being Y6923.

Damn! Until now, there's only been one non-Ashkenazi person (Puerto Rican) confirmed as Y6923. Will be sharing this info with the Y6923 project leader at FTDNA.

ADW_1981
06-20-2017, 05:12 AM
Has anyone run the R1b samples? Surprisingly none of the Cyprus R1b samples have the Balkan modal of DYS385ab 11,11.

vettor
06-20-2017, 06:38 AM
For the Breakdown of Haplogroups T and L, based on Nevgen Predictors.

Turkish Cypriots had more T and L than Greek Cypriots, in fact almost 3x more T.

Greek Cypriot T, number is 5

1. T-L208: 4
2. T-Y11151: 1

Turkish Cypriot T, the number is 14

1. T-L208: 12
2. T-L131: 2

For Greek Cypriot L, the number is 4

1. L-L595: 2
2. L-M317: 2

For Turkish Cypriot L, the number is 6

1. L-M317: 3
2. L-M27: 2
3. L-M357: 1

I think from these results L1b-M317 and T-L208 lineages have been in Cyprus pretty long.

Interesting

T-L208 = T1a1 group
T-L131 = T1a2 group
T-Y11151 = can be either one

basmaci
06-20-2017, 01:03 PM
Very comprehensive analysis, but how can you explain then that the frequency of Eastern Eurasian haplogroups is much higher among Turkish Cypriots than among Greek Cypriots? In Greek Cypriots they practicality do not exist, as is the case for all other Eastern Mediterranean populations, apart from mainland Turks. Is this just coincidental??

Of course not coincidental. They got those East Eurasian haplogroups from mainland Turks.

I was just pointing out the fact that East Eurasian haplogroups were not dominant among the Turkish settlers of the 16th century, but the paper focuses solely on East Eurasian haplogroups as if the Turkish settlers of the 16th century weren't predominantly West Eurasian (both autosomal and y-dna wise). The mainland Turkish contribution (Y-dna) among Turkish Cypriots cannot be limited to East Eurasian lineages.

The user Principe did a good job noticing the differences between J2a lineages of TCy and GCy for example

kingjohn
06-20-2017, 01:13 PM
principe your work
is amazing kudos much appreciated
regards
Adam

Edward J
06-20-2017, 01:20 PM
I wonder if the Z387s are more L70 or FGC35503?

Principe
06-20-2017, 01:49 PM
Has anyone run the R1b samples? Surprisingly none of the Cyprus R1b samples have the Balkan modal of DYS385ab 11,11.

I will do so later today!

Principe
06-20-2017, 01:53 PM
I wonder if the Z387s are more L70 or FGC35503?

Once I am done with the remaining 4 haplogroups, I will go more into detail with J2 so I'll post later.

Edward J
06-20-2017, 05:28 PM
Thanks for your work on this!

Amathusian
06-20-2017, 05:46 PM
@Principe

Just to repeat once more that your work on additional subclade predictions is invaluable for clarifying Cypriot ancestry further and as a Cypriot myself, I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for this.

Just a note regarding E1b1b major subclades, the prediction of these can be quite tricky in my opinion, even with the excellent Nevgen predictor. For the Greek Cypriot sample the majority of E1b1b subclades has been SNP-tested, so we can investigate the validity of the predictor and apply then accordingly on the Turkish Cypriot sample.

Regarding R1b, if indeed the Cypriot haplotypes do not resemble common Greek/Balkanic haplotypes, then I would assume that the source of R1b in Cyprus was primarily via Anatolia or even Levant, most likely during the Bronze Age.

Principe
06-20-2017, 06:46 PM
@Principe

Just to repeat once more that your work on additional subclade predictions is invaluable for clarifying Cypriot ancestry further and as a Cypriot myself, I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for this.

Just a note regarding E1b1b major subclades, the prediction of these can be quite tricky in my opinion, even with the excellent Nevgen predictor. For the Greek Cypriot sample the majority of E1b1b subclades has been SNP-tested, so we can investigate the validity of the predictor and apply then accordingly on the Turkish Cypriot sample.

Regarding R1b, if indeed the Cypriot haplotypes do not resemble common Greek/Balkanic haplotypes, then I would assume that the source of R1b in Cyprus was primarily via Anatolia or even Levant, most likely during the Bronze Age.

It is my absolute pleasure.

Yes I did check there was couple of them that were off, I found additional E-M84 and E-V22, but small I think 3 from both, that were off. I am currently working on the R1 subclades now and I am going to see, as for the only thing I say with 99% certainty is that E-V13 was brought by the mainland Greeks, and it represents roughly 10% of both Turkish and Greek Cypriot male lineages.

Principe
06-20-2017, 07:13 PM
Unfortunately for both R1a and R1b the predictor gives this result "R1a (for 67+markers, try level for R1a-s, 70+ subclades" it says the same for R1b, though I looking at ftdna and comparing the Turkish Cypriot R1a, it looks all to be under the R1a-Z280>CTS1211 with one visible R1a-Z93, Greek Cypriot R1a looks to be the same as the Turkish Cypriot R1a with all belonging under the R1a-Z280>CTS1211, unfortunately this is not the best resolution.

Principe
06-20-2017, 07:32 PM
I like for R1a, I looked at the Modal's for the R1b clades, one thing that is important is that R1b is much more common in Greek Cypriots than Turkish Cypriots, in Turkish Cypriots there is 26 R1b and in Greek Cypriots there is 41.

Anyways based on looking at the modal's it looks split between R1b-V88 and R1b-Z2103.

In Turkish Cypriots

1. R1b-Z2103: 19
2. R1b-V88: 7

In Greek Cypriots

1. R1b-Z2103: 31
2. R1b-V88: 10

It looks like R1b-Z2103 is as large as E-V13 in Greek Cypriots and is an exact match in Turkish Cypriots with E-V13 and R1b-Z2103 levels.

Amathusian
06-20-2017, 08:28 PM
@Principe

Great! So basically, if Cypriot R1a is primarily non-Z93 and belongs to subclades common in Central/East Europe, then we can assume that like E-V13, it is also coming from mainland Greece. I cannot think of any other major migration from Europe to Cyprus. Some have suggested the Romans, but I would not think that these were particularly rich in R1a and surely their frequencies were lower than those of the Greeks.

Regarding the predicted R1b sub-clades, I would assume that Z2103 could have come from either SE Europe or Anatolia, while V88 very likely came from the Levant.

Any more predictions would be warmly welcomed. For example, I2 might be of particular interest, particularly among Turkish Cypriots, in whom it is paradoxically more common than among Greek Cypriots.

ADW_1981
06-20-2017, 10:24 PM
@Principe

Great! So basically, if Cypriot R1a is primarily non-Z93 and belongs to subclades common in Central/East Europe, then we can assume that like E-V13, it is also coming from mainland Greece. I cannot think of any other major migration from Europe to Cyprus. Some have suggested the Romans, but I would not think that these were particularly rich in R1a and surely their frequencies were lower than those of the Greeks.

Regarding the predicted R1b sub-clades, I would assume that Z2103 could have come from either SE Europe or Anatolia, while V88 very likely came from the Levant.

Any more predictions would be warmly welcomed. For example, I2 might be of particular interest, particularly among Turkish Cypriots, in whom it is paradoxically more common than among Greek Cypriots.

It *looked* like some of them were V88, including a haplotype shared between Greek and Turk Cypriots, probably some L277 based on the DYS392=14 value, but without SNPs, they are big time guesses. Some of them also could be L51+ and descendants based on DYS393=13, but even that we know is a big guess too.

Principe
06-20-2017, 10:26 PM
For the Breakdown of G

As you see amongst Turkish Cypriots because of less markers the predictors are more broad than Greek Cypriots.

For Turkish Cypriot G, the number is 53

1. G-M406: 14
2. G-L497: 13
3. G-PF3147: 10
4. G-U1: 5
5. G-M342: 5 (G1)
6. G-Z274: 4
7. G-L293: 2

For Greek Cypriot G, the number is 44

1. G-U1: 8
2. G-L497>CTS4803: 7
3. G-PF3147: 7
4. G-L293: 4
5. G-PF3359: 4 (Not found in Turkish Cypriots)
6. G-Z274: 4
7. G-M406>Z17887: 3
8. G-M406>L14: 3
9. G-M406>M3302: 2
10. G-M342: 1 (G1)
11. G-L497>L43

I was really surprised with the high G-L497 in Cypriots.

Principe
06-20-2017, 11:09 PM
For Haplogroup I2 breakdown, it is much higher in Turkish Cypriots than Greek Cypriots.

For Turkish Cypriot I2, the number is 26

1. I-P37: 18
2. I-L596: 4 (I2c)
3. I-M223: 4

For Greek Cypriot I2, the number is 9

1. I-P37: 6
2. I-L596: 2 (I2c)
3. I-M223: 1

Essentially they both look the same except Turkish Cypriots have 3x the amount of I2.

Principe
06-20-2017, 11:22 PM
@Principe

Great! So basically, if Cypriot R1a is primarily non-Z93 and belongs to subclades common in Central/East Europe, then we can assume that like E-V13, it is also coming from mainland Greece. I cannot think of any other major migration from Europe to Cyprus. Some have suggested the Romans, but I would not think that these were particularly rich in R1a and surely their frequencies were lower than those of the Greeks.

Regarding the predicted R1b sub-clades, I would assume that Z2103 could have come from either SE Europe or Anatolia, while V88 very likely came from the Levant.

Any more predictions would be warmly welcomed. For example, I2 might be of particular interest, particularly among Turkish Cypriots, in whom it is paradoxically more common than among Greek Cypriots.

I think that is true, R1a in Cyprus should not be Slavic, odds are this R1a could have been more popular in Ancient Greece? I think after looking at many haplogroups and all the Breakdowns I think E-V13 and R1b-Z2103 were the primary Greek markers in Cyprus, If you look at the breakdowns I did, you will notice that Turkish Cypriots have quite a few extra lineages than Greek Cypriots, but overall nothing major, rough estimate they are roughly 85-90% the same paternally.

mnd
06-21-2017, 12:46 AM
It might be worth noting that in addition to Turkish/Ottoman input and simple drift, the 'natural' distribution of the communities (i.e. pre-1974) might also be playing a part in the differences in haplogroup and subclade distributions. In 1956:

17117

Note that Turks are more common in the west than the north and east of the island. I can't remember any exact figures off the top of my head, but Turks were roughly twice as frequent in the west as the far east of the island.

It would be interesting to know whether Greek Cypriot haplogroup and subclade distributions show signs of geographical structure.

NB: shame the authors didn't use Nevgen, they would have found that HT036 among the Turks (yours truly) is G-U1 and not unclassifiable... :(

Kanenas
06-21-2017, 11:22 AM
Based on the previous study [Voskarides, 2016] there are some patterns:

East:
Highest 'R1b-M589' in Ammochostos, 5.7%
'L-M20' also higher in Ammochostos, 4.1%
Highest I2-M436 in Ammochostos, 4,1%

Highest R1a-Z93 in Larnaka, 4.5%
Highest E-V13 in Larnaka, 9%
Highest 'R1b-Z2105*' in Larnaka, 7.5%
Highest I2-M423 in Larnaka, 6%

South West:
Highest 'R1a--Z282*' + R1a-M-458 in Paphos, 7.6%
Highest 'J2a-M67*' in Paphos, 9.5%
Highest J2a-M92 in Paphos, 6.7%
Highest J2b-M241 in Paphos, 1.9%
Second highest J2b-M205 also in Paphos, 9.5%


South:
Highest 'G2a-P303*' in Limassol, 7.1%
Highest J2a-Z387 in Limmasol, 10.3%

North:
Highest 'J1-Page8' in Kyreneia, 14.6%
Highest E-M34 also in Kyreneia, 18.8%
Highest E-V22 in Kyreneia 8.3%
Highest J2b-M205 in Kyreneia, 10,4%

Amathusian
06-21-2017, 01:21 PM
It might be worth noting that in addition to Turkish/Ottoman input and simple drift, the 'natural' distribution of the communities (i.e. pre-1974) might also be playing a part in the differences in haplogroup and subclade distributions. In 1956:

17117

Note that Turks are more common in the west than the north and east of the island. I can't remember any exact figures off the top of my head, but Turks were roughly twice as frequent in the west as the far east of the island.

It would be interesting to know whether Greek Cypriot haplogroup and subclade distributions show signs of geographical structure.

NB: shame the authors didn't use Nevgen, they would have found that HT036 among the Turks (yours truly) is G-U1 and not unclassifiable... :(

Indeed valid observation about sub-structure within Cyprus. Given that converting from Christianity to Islam occurred more frequently in specific areas (which it did) indeed this might also explain differences in haplogroup frequencies between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots.

Also valid point about the Nevgen predictor. Unfortunately, Journals are quite cautious with haplogroup predictor tools and they would usually accept such data only coming from validated haplogroup predictors. Do not forget that Whit Athey's Haplogroup predictor has been validated in a peer-reviewed study, while the Nevgen predictor has never been validated, although I agree that it is an excellent tool.

Amathusian
06-21-2017, 01:41 PM
@Principe
Thank you once more for this amazing work. I have made a few comments about the origin of some of the major haplogroup subclades you have predicted, but it would be great if you could briefly summarize your main conclusions from your prediction analysis. I mean only the major things that stand out in your opinion. Cyprus has received population influx from the Levant, Anatolia and SE Europe, so it would be great if we could shed some more light on which haplogroups came from where.

@Kanenas
Thanks for bringing the Voskarides et al study in the discussion. Basically they have tested more SNPs among Greek Cypriots, but they have not engaged into detailed STR-based analysis and they also do not include Turkish Cypriot data in their study. Actually, the new Heraclides et al study includes all results after combining their sample with the previous Voskarides et al sample (Supplementary material). There is also a breakdown of haplogroup frequencies with the two Greek Cypriot samples combined (S6 Table).

Principe
06-21-2017, 02:31 PM
@Principe
Thank you once more for this amazing work. I have made a few comments about the origin of some of the major haplogroup subclades you have predicted, but it would be great if you could briefly summarize your main conclusions from your prediction analysis. I mean only the major things that stand out in your opinion. Cyprus has received population influx from the Levant, Anatolia and SE Europe, so it would be great if we could shed some more light on which haplogroups came from where.


As always it is my pleasure. Okay I will give my opinion on which haplogroups came from where and I would like to state before that my opinion is not necessarily the absolute truth but this is what I believe. I think the Neolithic or the oldest subclades in Cyprus are E-M84, E-L791 and E-Z830. Then Philia culture which would be from Anatolia (Cilicia to be exact) associated with the Red Ware to be the speakers of the Eteo-Cypriot language which I believe (not everyone) to be related to the Hurrians and the Kura-Araxes expansion to have brought a good portion of the J2a in particular J2a-M319, J2a-L210, J2a-Z6065, J2a-Z7671 and some of the J2a-Z500 (which needs further inspection), along with G-M406 and G-L293 (Z6553 on Yfull), T-L208, L-M317 and J1-Z1828. From the Levant would have came J2b-M205, all J1-P58, E-V12>CTS693, E-V22 (originally Egyptian), R1b-V88 and remainder of J2a except the few that came with the Greeks. Deeper subclades of the ones I mentioned for the Philia Culture can also be Levantine in origin, I think ancient dna and ngs testing will help clarify this, regardless these are the subclades that I believe came from Anatolia and the Levant. For Greek be it Mycenaeans and the later migrations they brought E-V13, R1b-Z2103, R1a, I-P37, J2b-M241, the remainder of G and the rest of J2a, with haplogroups such J2a-Z500 (some it all depends on a deeper look), J2a-S25258, and J2a-Z387 (this needs a deeper look, could also be earlier).

Kanenas
06-21-2017, 04:38 PM
As always it is my pleasure. Okay I will give my opinion on which haplogroups came from where and I would like to state before that my opinion is not necessarily the absolute truth but this is what I believe. I think the Neolithic or the oldest subclades in Cyprus are E-M84, E-L791 and E-Z830. Then Philia culture which would be from Anatolia (Cilicia to be exact) associated with the Red Ware to be the speakers of the Eteo-Cypriot language which I believe (not everyone) to be related to the Hurrians and the Kura-Araxes expansion to have brought a good portion of the J2a in particular J2a-M319, J2a-L210, J2a-Z6065, J2a-Z7671 and some of the J2a-Z500 (which needs further inspection), along with G-M406 and G-L293 (Z6553 on Yfull), T-L208, L-M317 and J1-Z1828. From the Levant would have came J2b-M205, all J1-P58, E-V12>CTS693, E-V22 (originally Egyptian), R1b-V88 and remainder of J2a except the few that came with the Greeks. Deeper subclades of the ones I mentioned for the Philia Culture can also be Levantine in origin, I think ancient dna and ngs testing will help clarify this, regardless these are the subclades that I believe came from Anatolia and the Levant. For Greek be it Mycenaeans and the later migrations they brought E-V13, R1b-Z2103, R1a, I-P37, J2b-M241, the remainder of G and the rest of J2a, with haplogroups such J2a-Z500 (some it all depends on a deeper look), J2a-S25258, and J2a-Z387 (this needs a deeper look, could also be earlier).

What make you think that most R1b-Z2103 is from Balkans/Greece?

Principe
06-21-2017, 05:21 PM
What make you think that most R1b-Z2103 is from Balkans/Greece?

It matches the frequency of E-V13 in both Greek and Turkish Cypriots.

Amathusian
06-21-2017, 06:47 PM
@Principe
Many thanks again for the comprehensive overview of findings. Generally I tend to agree with your interpretations. The only comments I have are:
1. If indeed Neolithic Cypriots belonged exclusively to haplogroup E1b1b, then this would mean that the Cypriot Neolithic is primarily an offshoot of the Levantine (primarily South?) Neolithic. Although this is supported by archaeological evidence, I would expect some influx also from Anatolian Neolithic farmers, given their close proximity to the island. Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if Neolithic Cypriots also carried some Neolithic Anatolian G2a subclades.

2. Archaeological evidence suggests that the Philia culture very closely resembled the culture of EBA Western Anatolia, rather than Southern Anatolia. I totally agree that these Anatolian settlers were the first to introduce J2a in Cyprus and yes it is very likely that they have something to do with the Cypro-Minoan script and the Eteo-Cypriot language. Unless this was directly introduced from Crete, which is also another possible explanation. Minoan Linear A is closely related but precedes the Cypro-Minoan script of BA Cyprus. Unfortunately the availability of good resolution (at least 17 marker) STR data from Crete is very limited in the literature. Low resolution SNP data are available however (also included in the Heraclides et al paper).

3. My third point is actually a question.. The Phoenicians had a substantial impact on the history of Cyprus, with clear evidence of settlements in the SE coast (modern day Larnaca) and stretching inland as central as the suburbs of modern day Nicosia, as well as westernmost up to modern day Limassol. What haplogroup subclades would you expect these to have introduced? Unless, they were so similar to contemporary (Iron age) Cypriots, that it would be too difficult to disentangle..

Principe
06-21-2017, 08:09 PM
@Principe
Many thanks again for the comprehensive overview of findings. Generally I tend to agree with your interpretations. The only comments I have are:
1. If indeed Neolithic Cypriots belonged exclusively to haplogroup E1b1b, then this would mean that the Cypriot Neolithic is primarily an offshoot of the Levantine (primarily South?) Neolithic. Although this is supported by archaeological evidence, I would expect some influx also from Anatolian Neolithic farmers, given their close proximity to the island. Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if Neolithic Cypriots also carried some Neolithic Anatolian G2a subclades.

2. Archaeological evidence suggests that the Philia culture very closely resembled the culture of EBA Western Anatolia, rather than Southern Anatolia. I totally agree that these Anatolian settlers were the first to introduce J2a in Cyprus and yes it is very likely that they have something to do with the Cypro-Minoan script and the Eteo-Cypriot language. Unless this was directly introduced from Crete, which is also another possible explanation. Minoan Linear A is closely related but precedes the Cypro-Minoan script of BA Cyprus. Unfortunately the availability of good resolution (at least 17 marker) STR data from Crete is very limited in the literature. Low resolution SNP data are available however (also included in the Heraclides et al paper).

3. My third point is actually a question.. The Phoenicians had a substantial impact on the history of Cyprus, with clear evidence of settlements in the SE coast (modern day Larnaca) and stretching inland as central as the suburbs of modern day Nicosia, as well as westernmost up to modern day Limassol. What haplogroup subclades would you expect these to have introduced? Unless, they were so similar to contemporary (Iron age) Cypriots, that it would be too difficult to disentangle..

To your 3 points I will answer them as best as I can.

1. It could be possible that some G2a lineages can be neolithic in origin, G-PF3147 is actually the Neolithic Anatolian farmer subclade, Otzi belongs to a downstream of it and G-Z724, the thing is we don't know if these farmers were also marine navigators.

2. I think more archaeology needs to be done with these connection, and I would think Crete is very similar to Cypriot Y lines, they just have more J2a.

3. I think after seeing the Bronze Age Sidon samples J2b-M205 and J1-P58 related lineages would probably be Phoenician in origin, I also think some J2a subclades were brought into Cyprus by the Phoenicians, J2a is the most common Y line of Lebanon today, and probably E-V22 because Egypt controlled the Levant before the Phoenicians started, E-V22 could have been a line that was absorbed in Bronze Age.

Kanenas
06-22-2017, 05:28 AM
In Voskarides [2016] J2b-M205 is absent in Larnaka and very rare in Ammochostos while both had 'Phoenicians' . It peaks in North and West.

E-M123 is higher in the North, quite high inside & South and lower in East, West.

Amathusian
06-22-2017, 03:08 PM
Good observation about J2b-M205. Larnaca (ancient Kition) was surely a Phoenician hotspot. If J2b-M205 peaks in North and West maybe it has an Anatolian or even Cretan origin. NW Cyprus had a strong interaction with Crete based on the archaeological record. By the way, modern Cretans have higher frequencies of R1b than Cypriots and much higher frequencies of R1a. My understanding of this is that they have had more interactions with mainland Greece, which is much closer to them. I wonder however whether this interaction was ancient or more recent (i.e. Slavic source of Cretan R1a). Interestingly, Cretans have lower frequencies of E-V13 than Cypriots, a marker generally recognised as indicating ancient Greek admixture in regions surrounding Greece (Italy, south of France, as well as Cyprus in the new study).

kingjohn
06-22-2017, 03:36 PM
i think e-m123 was present in cyprus before the mycenean greeks came
and helenized the island

p.s

and indid most of the chances the greeks who colonized cyprus were e-v13

Principe
06-22-2017, 04:02 PM
Good observation about J2b-M205. Larnaca (ancient Kition) was surely a Phoenician hotspot. If J2b-M205 peaks in North and West maybe it has an Anatolian or even Cretan origin. NW Cyprus had a strong interaction with Crete based on the archaeological record. By the way, modern Cretans have higher frequencies of R1b than Cypriots and much higher frequencies of R1a. My understanding of this is that they have had more interactions with mainland Greece, which is much closer to them. I wonder however whether this interaction was ancient or more recent (i.e. Slavic source of Cretan R1a). Interestingly, Cretans have lower frequencies of E-V13 than Cypriots, a marker generally recognised as indicating ancient Greek admixture in regions surrounding Greece (Italy, south of France, as well as Cyprus in the new study).

Remember that J2b-M205 was found in 4 ancient samples including Bronze Age Sidon (One of the main Phoenician cities), people move around, J2b-M205 in Cyprus is very likely I would even say 95% to be Levantine in origin. Maybe that has to do with Greek groups that came to Crete and Cyprus?

Amathusian
06-22-2017, 06:39 PM
Remember that J2b-M205 was found in 4 ancient samples including Bronze Age Sidon (One of the main Phoenician cities), people move around, J2b-M205 in Cyprus is very likely I would even say 95% to be Levantine in origin. Maybe that has to do with Greek groups that came to Crete and Cyprus?

Maybe, let's see.. The long awaited ancient Aegean paper from the Reich lab should be approaching and will give us many answers! I hope it contains a good number of Mycenaean samples, not just a few royalties..

Kanenas
06-22-2017, 07:11 PM
Good observation about J2b-M205. Larnaca (ancient Kition) was surely a Phoenician hotspot. If J2b-M205 peaks in North and West maybe it has an Anatolian or even Cretan origin. NW Cyprus had a strong interaction with Crete based on the archaeological record. By the way, modern Cretans have higher frequencies of R1b than Cypriots and much higher frequencies of R1a. My understanding of this is that they have had more interactions with mainland Greece, which is much closer to them. I wonder however whether this interaction was ancient or more recent (i.e. Slavic source of Cretan R1a). Interestingly, Cretans have lower frequencies of E-V13 than Cypriots, a marker generally recognised as indicating ancient Greek admixture in regions surrounding Greece (Italy, south of France, as well as Cyprus in the new study).

Some of the R1b in Crete can be Italic (Venetian) though. In Cyprus too, some regions have 1.5-2% R1b-U152, for example. Some of it can be from Anatolia.

'Lasithi Plataeu' in Crete has high R1a & R1b but there is a recent founder effect probably and the population is small (2,387).

I think E-V13 can be high in some big Cretan cities like Chania or maybe Heraklion but I don't think we have reliable data.
I don't know where it originates and how and when it expanded in Balkans, though. Basically what haplogroups expanded with Cardial Neolithic?

I don't know about R1a. In Cyprus the 'Slavic' subclades peak in Paphos where J2a-M67 and J2a-M92 also seem to peak while J2b-M205 is also high there.

Kanenas
06-22-2017, 08:01 PM
Remember that J2b-M205 was found in 4 ancient samples including Bronze Age Sidon (One of the main Phoenician cities), people move around, J2b-M205 in Cyprus is very likely I would even say 95% to be Levantine in origin. Maybe that has to do with Greek groups that came to Crete and Cyprus?

I am not really interested much about the origins of any haplogroups but the sample in Bronze Age Sidon is labeled as J2b-M12(xJ2b2a-L283). So, Trojet writes that it is 'most likely' J2b-M205.
J2b-M12(xM205, xM241) exists in Cyprus, in Ammochostos.

The sample from Jordan seems more important to me but I don't know which non-Levantine groups could have had it in the Bronze Age, if any.

vettor
06-22-2017, 09:16 PM
Some of the R1b in Crete can be Italic (Venetian) though. In Cyprus too, some regions have 1.5-2% R1b-U152, for example. Some of it can be from Anatolia.

'Lasithi Plataeu' in Crete has high R1a & R1b but there is a recent founder effect probably and the population is small (2,387).

.

Before the venetians who where less than 100 years in cyprus, there was the Genoese and before this the Franks..............all would have R1b

Kanenas
06-22-2017, 09:24 PM
Before the venetians who where less than 100 years in cyprus, there was the Genoese and before this the Franks..............all would have R1b

There is no reason to say that to me. I meant 'in Cyprus too' there might be 'Italic' (from Italy, not 'Proto-Italic') haplogroups, which may include yours even.

Principe
06-22-2017, 09:28 PM
Just want to add because Paphos has been mentioned, I looked at all the cities, towns and villages on Wikipedia to see what I can find, majority of Paphos was already inhabited since neolithic times and had towns during the Bronze Age, there is contacts with the Near East too, the Cult of Aphrodite was idolized there and is very likely Syrian in origin so there's the link with the Levant, also a coastal village was important to the New Kingdom Egyptians. In terms of Greek we have one Mycenaean colony and many links with Corinth, Achaea and Arcadia. There was also an Armenian and Georgian village along with 2 Venetian and 2 Lusignan villages.

Amathusian
06-30-2017, 06:32 PM
Indeed both Cyprus and Crete were ruled by Western Europeans (Venetians in Crete; Franks/Venetians/Genoese in Cyprus). I believe Crete received a higher Medieval Italian admixture than Cyprus though, as the Heraclides et al study, which included a large representative sample of Y-chromosomes, as well as all YHRD Italian samples (n=3366) identified very limited number of shared Y-haplotypes between Cyprus and Italy.

vettor
06-30-2017, 07:18 PM
Indeed both Cyprus and Crete were ruled by Western Europeans (Venetians in Crete; Franks/Venetians/Genoese in Cyprus). I believe Crete received a higher Medieval Italian admixture than Cyprus though, as the Heraclides et al study, which included a large representative sample of Y-chromosomes, as well as all YHRD Italian samples (n=3366) identified very limited number of shared Y-haplotypes between Cyprus and Italy.

The Venetian R1b ( north East italy ) is a different branch from the Genoese and Frankish R1b ..........one can easily test these Cypriots /cretans of which R1b they came from

parapolitikos
10-12-2020, 09:15 AM
@Principe

Great! So basically, if Cypriot R1a is primarily non-Z93 and belongs to subclades common in Central/East Europe, then we can assume that like E-V13, it is also coming from mainland Greece. I cannot think of any other major migration from Europe to Cyprus. Some have suggested the Romans, but I would not think that these were particularly rich in R1a and surely their frequencies were lower than those of the Greeks.

Regarding the predicted R1b sub-clades, I would assume that Z2103 could have come from either SE Europe or Anatolia, while V88 very likely came from the Levant.

Any more predictions would be warmly welcomed. For example, I2 might be of particular interest, particularly among Turkish Cypriots, in whom it is paradoxically more common than among Greek Cypriots.

Turkish Cypriots had higher presence in Paphos(25%) and Larnaca area(21%)(other regions 15% excluding North Nicosia which attracted TCs from all over the Island as it was the administrative and cultural and political center of T/C paraller administration- 20%).Especially in a region known as Tylliria which legends have it people from epirus were settled as soldiers during the byzantine era. Voskarides Study shows relative variation of haplogroups between the regions of Cyprus among G/cypriots so same I expect would apply with T/Cypriots.
Pafos has 10% of the population but 25% of the I2, and Larnaca 12% and 33% of the I2. Balkanic Garrisons stationed in Cyprus could be another source.Taking in mind that the Bulk of the ottoman army was Slave soldiers, Jenissaries, and Albanian mercenaries , then that would be another source of the relative higher I2
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0179474#pone.0179474.s013
https://web.archive.org/web/20180102023655/http://www.cystat.gov.cy/mof/cystat/statistics.nsf/All/F8312DAC6D793BCAC2257F64003C5D62/$file/POP_CEN_1960-POP(RELIG_GROUP)_DIS_MUN_COM-EN-250216.pdf?OpenElement

parapolitikos
10-12-2020, 09:39 AM
The Turkish Cypriots also carry many additional North African and African lines than the Greek Cypriot population, with E-V65, E-M81, E-V32 (E-V68), E-M4225 and E-Y1623.

Not Surprisingly.Turks practiced Slavery all the way to the end of the Ottoman empire after WW1. Ottoman Cyprus wasn't an exception.That fact maybe shocking but it was the norm in Islamic countries, especially if you consider the fact that Salvery in several Muslim countries was practiced until the mid 20thst century.
African slaves were the bulk of the slave for the later third of the Ottoman era.The rise of the Russian Empire put an end to the Tatar slave trade and as a consequence of the Turko-Russian wars, Russia became de facto the protector of the christian people of the ottoman empire, which led to Ottomans treating more carefully their Christians subjects. Blacks would enjoy similar considerations only a century later. Christians on the other hand couldnt own slaves in the Ottoman era.