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Mattychatty
06-17-2017, 01:37 PM
Hi. Just got my ancestry dna results:

Great britain 94%
Scandinavia 3%
Ireland 2%
Italy/greece 0%
Europe west 0%
Iberian peninsula 0%

-------
Caucusus <1%




Just wondering what this means. And my percentage of great Britain is alot higher than the average local.

The great britain part doesnt really explain where my ancestry comes from in terms of anglo saxons/jutes/vikings/normans etc

Does anyone else have any ideas ?

A Norfolk L-M20
06-17-2017, 01:43 PM
Welcome to the board Mattychatty. I'm afraid that I can't comment on the Great Britain data set reference for Ancestry.com, although I am interested, as I am waiting for results from them. I suspect that although they separate Irish from British, that it may still have a "Celtic" bias - but we shall see what others say. I have previously tested FT-DNA, 23andMe, and Living DNA. That last test is the best DNA test for trying to ascertain where in Britain, ancestors might have lived. Hope to see more of you, and welcome to the journey.

Mattychatty
06-17-2017, 01:57 PM
Hey. Thanks for the reply. All i know is that alot of my ancestors for many generations lived/died in maidstone kent. But before that i was hoping the dna test would show. Regards Matt

sktibo
06-18-2017, 01:43 AM
Hi. Just got my ancestry dna results:

Great britain 94%
Scandinavia 3%
Ireland 2%
Italy/greece 0%
Europe west 0%
Iberian peninsula 0%

-------
Caucusus <1%




Just wondering what this means. And my percentage of great Britain is alot higher than the average local.

The great britain part doesnt really explain where my ancestry comes from in terms of anglo saxons/jutes/vikings/normans etc

Does anyone else have any ideas ?

New record for highest ancestry GB percentage. Means you are genetically similar to the people on Ancestry's reference panel for their GB region. Unfortunately, as you've pointed out it doesn't tell you much. Is all of your ancestry actually English or do you have ancestors from other parts of europe?

Mattychatty
06-18-2017, 07:32 AM
My parents, grand parents and great grand parents and even my great great grand parents were all born in kent. I even had a 3rd cousin that got into contact with me who did extensive research into their ancestry and even ancestors from the late 1700 were born raised/died in maidstone kent from my mums side of the family. As far as im aware i have no family from anywhere else but england.

sktibo
06-18-2017, 07:50 AM
My parents, grand parents and great grand parents and even my great great grand parents were all born in kent. I even had a 3rd cousin that got into contact with me who did extensive research into their ancestry and even ancestors from the late 1700 were born raised/died in maidstone kent from my mums side of the family. As far as im aware i have no family from anywhere else but england.

So in your case ancestry's test did an extraordinarily good job

Mattychatty
06-18-2017, 07:58 AM
Yeh i agree i didnt really find anything out that i didnt already know. But whats the 3% Scandinavia percentage about and why is it so low ? Does a low percentage mean its from a long time ago ?

Thanks for answering my questions

sktibo
06-18-2017, 08:10 AM
Your Ireland and your Scandinavian percentages are both most likely attributed to your British I think, there's some overlap between Ancestry's GB region and those two

C J Wyatt III
06-18-2017, 08:36 AM
My parents, grand parents and great grand parents and even my great great grand parents were all born in kent. I even had a 3rd cousin that got into contact with me who did extensive research into their ancestry and even ancestors from the late 1700 were born raised/died in maidstone kent from my mums side of the family. As far as im aware i have no family from anywhere else but england.

Wow, very unusual to be that "pure" and the testing appears to support it.

If one goes back eight generations, that person will have 256 lines. Usually among those 256 lines will be several made-up ancestries or ones that are not exactly right for whatever reason.

Thanks for sharing.

Jack

sktibo
06-18-2017, 09:48 AM
Wow, very unusual to be that "pure" and the testing appears to support it.

If one goes back eight generations, that person will have 256 lines. Usually among those 256 lines will be several made-up ancestries or ones that are not exactly right for whatever reason.

Thanks for sharing.

Jack

i think it is actually one of the more interesting results for the reason you stated

06-18-2017, 10:00 AM
Yeh i agree i didnt really find anything out that i didnt already know. But whats the 3% Scandinavia percentage about and why is it so low ? Does a low percentage mean its from a long time ago ?

Thanks for answering my questions
Welcome Mattychatty to the forum, allot of the answers you seek might come from LivingDNA,
Maybe some of the others here can pipe up, am I correct on thinking that LivingDNA in future will offer free data transfers for people like Mattychatty? I'm sure I read it somewhere.

Mattychatty
06-18-2017, 10:53 AM
Thanks for the replys. I put my dna through gedmatch but not really sure how to use it my number is A160191 if anyones interested to have a look.

Mattychatty
06-18-2017, 10:58 AM
Ill look into livingdna. But how does it differ from ancestrydna ?

06-18-2017, 04:02 PM
Ill look into livingdna. But how does it differ from ancestrydna ?
LivingDNA, will give you your autosum DNA to you on a regional basis, click on my link in signature as an example of mine, so you might get 50% SE England for example, and then other regions of U.K. It will also give you your YDNA paternal haplogroup and subclade, and your MtDNA maternal haplogroup and subclade.

sktibo
06-18-2017, 04:14 PM
Ill look into livingdna. But how does it differ from ancestrydna ?

Quite a lot. In your case with all your ancestry being from Kent it might actually be the only worthwhile test. It has split Britain into many regions and will divide your ancestry up into those.
https://www.livingdna.com/en-au/family-ancestry

JMcB
06-19-2017, 06:19 PM
Ill look into livingdna. But how does it differ from ancestrydna ?

Hello Mattchatty,

Welcome to the forum. If you would like, I'll show you my Ancestry results and my Living DNA (Complete Mode) results as a comparison. (Note: Living DNA has three different Modes)

Here's Ancestry's slightly altered map with my percentages added in.

17045

And here's Living DNA's Map with their regional breakdown of my results.

17046 17047

Anyway, I hope that helps.

Regards,
jmcb

JerryS.
06-19-2017, 07:25 PM
Hello Mattchatty,

Welcome to the forum. If you would like, I'll show you my Ancestry results and my Living DNA (Complete Mode) results as a comparison. (Note: Living DNA has three different Modes)

Here's Ancestry's slightly altered map with my percentages added in.

17045

And here's Living DNA's Map with their regional breakdown of my results.

17046 17047

Anyway, I hope that helps.

Regards,
jmcb

how does one get a living DNA map from the Ancestry autosomal test like I have? is this a separate test that must be submitted? I've uploaded to GEDmatch even the tier 1 membership but I haven't seen this. thanks.

ajc347
06-19-2017, 09:19 PM
how does one get a living DNA map from the Ancestry autosomal test like I have? is this a separate test that must be submitted? I've uploaded to GEDmatch even the tier 1 membership but I haven't seen this. thanks.

You won't be able to access Living DNA's features from an Ancestry test I'm afraid. They're two separate testing companies and they don't accept any uploads of raw data from other sources currently. It's a question of shelling out for another test and if you have any UK ancestors it's definitely worth testing with Living DNA. They have a sale on at the moment if that helps at all.

JerryS.
06-19-2017, 09:22 PM
You won't be able to access Living DNA's features from an Ancestry test I'm afraid. They're two separate testing companies and they don't accept any uploads of raw data from other sources currently. It's a question of shelling out for another test and if you have any UK ancestors it's definitely worth testing with Living DNA. They have a sale on at the moment if that helps at all.

my UK ancestry is colonial American. I also have German and Italian from more recent times. what will the living DNA tell me? does it show blood relatives currently living in other countries?

ajc347
06-19-2017, 09:32 PM
It may potentially give you some insight into the origins of your colonial ancestors (or it may not of course). It won't give you any matches to relatives in other countries (as yet - I've read that this is a potential planned feature sometime in the future). What it will do, though, is give you a Y-DNA and mtDNA Haplogroup which can be potentially be helpful for deeper ancestry.

There's a link to my Living DNA results in my signature box and this will give you a better idea of how and what Living DNA report their results.

Mattychatty
06-20-2017, 10:23 AM
Ah excellent. Thanks guys. I will be sure to do the livingdna. Sorta wish i did that first. Could someone give me a quick rundown on what ydna and mtdna is about.

06-20-2017, 10:45 AM
Ah excellent. Thanks guys. I will be sure to do the livingdna. Sorta wish i did that first. Could someone give me a quick rundown on what ydna and mtdna is about.

Well humans get 23 pairs of Chromosomes, lets say the 23rd chromosome determines if your a boy or a girl, if you're a girl you will get a double "x,x", if you're a boy you will get an "x,y"
In your case as your Male you can get haplogroups for both Maternal, and paternal (x,y) females only can get maternal, they have no "y" (x,x)


from your x,y you can assign by descent a haplogroup from your maternal & paternal line all the way (let's say Adam and Eve)

This is quite a good genealogical tool to denote which ethnic groups individuals might belong to.
e.g a typical haplogroup for the indo europeans (paternally) would be R1a and R1b, but not exclusively. from this Migration you can see where they have travelled etc.

Wiki link for more info
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup

P.S. In future since you have already tested with BritainsDNA, you might be able to download that data. and in future upload this to LivingDNA, this feature does not yet exist, but I am sure I have read it is a feature they will introduce in the coming months/years.
but.
you might be able in future upload to:-
DNALand
MyHeritage
WeGene
etc etc and more.

sktibo
06-20-2017, 02:14 PM
Ah excellent. Thanks guys. I will be sure to do the livingdna. Sorta wish i did that first. Could someone give me a quick rundown on what ydna and mtdna is about.

excellent! yours should be very interesting.

JMcB
06-20-2017, 05:58 PM
my UK ancestry is colonial American. I also have German and Italian from more recent times. what will the living DNA tell me? does it show blood relatives currently living in other countries?

Hello JerryS,

You can get an idea of how they'll handle someone with Colonial American ancestry by looking at my results above (Post #16). My ancestors started arriving in America in the 1600s, with the last ones showing up in the 1830s. So except for one paternal line, I only knew where they came from in broad terms, like England, Ireland or Scotland. They've been able to break that down into smaller regions. While I might quibble here and there with some of their percentages, for the most part I think they've done a nice job.

Coincidentally, I also have some German and Italian that's more recent (1830s) and they did manage to pick that up, too. Although, they called the German, Scandinavian but parts of Germany can fall within their Scandinavian region.

Shaunad
03-07-2018, 05:51 AM
I had my DNA done and my results were 99% British and less than 1% Asia. I was born in Indiana, a lot of my ancestry originates from the UK. As a matter of fact my Great Grandfather's family was from Kent.

Shaunad
03-07-2018, 06:06 AM
I was just wondering if you know if you have any family in America. My Great-grand father's family was from Maid stone Kent.

greerpalmer
03-08-2018, 06:56 PM
Ah excellent. Thanks guys. I will be sure to do the livingdna. Sorta wish i did that first. Could someone give me a quick rundown on what ydna and mtdna is about.

Just seconding that LivingDNA would be a great option. I know no one wants to hear that after just testing.
From my experience Ancestry's "Irish/Scottish/Welsh" component separates out the older migrations from more recent Germanic migrations we see in South/Southeast England. I'm fairly confident it captures my Cornwall ancestry too.
"Great Britain" focuses more on the post-Roman Anglo Saxon mixed people we know as "English"

Using GEDmatch heritage calculators Oracle 4 functions we can see that you match closely with:

Eurogenes K13
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Southeast_English @ 4.378802
2 Southwest_English @ 4.459498
3 Orcadian @ 5.354542
4 Irish @ 6.092943
5 South_Dutch @ 6.169751
6 West_Scottish @ 6.645300
7 North_Dutch @ 6.887853
8 Danish @ 7.561784
9 West_German @ 7.944566
10 North_German @ 8.067234
11 Norwegian @ 9.268884
12 Swedish @ 11.224896
13 French @ 11.659380
14 Austrian @ 14.532256
15 East_German @ 15.168820
16 North_Swedish @ 17.437637
17 Spanish_Cataluna @ 19.153910
18 Southwest_French @ 19.592873
19 Hungarian @ 20.139633
20 Spanish_Cantabria @ 20.417690

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% South_Dutch +50% Southwest_English @ 3.020192


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Southwest_French +25% Swedish @ 2.142057


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + North_German + North_German + Swedish @ 2.112232
2 Irish + Irish + Southwest_French + Swedish @ 2.142057
3 Irish + Irish + North_German + Southwest_French @ 2.176077
4 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + Southwest_French @ 2.211250
5 Irish + North_Dutch + Norwegian + Southwest_French @ 2.233163
6 French_Basque + North_German + North_German + Norwegian @ 2.253021
7 Irish + North_German + Norwegian + Southwest_French @ 2.257963
8 French_Basque + North_German + North_German + North_German @ 2.276525
9 Irish + Irish + Spanish_Cantabria + Swedish @ 2.306456
10 Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Southwest_French @ 2.307600
11 Irish + Norwegian + Orcadian + Southwest_French @ 2.327789
12 Irish + North_German + Southwest_French + West_Scottish @ 2.356719
13 North_German + Norwegian + Southwest_French + West_Scottish @ 2.357662
14 Irish + Southwest_French + Swedish + West_Scottish @ 2.359433
15 Danish + Irish + Norwegian + Southwest_French @ 2.373444
16 Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_French + Swedish @ 2.380856
17 Irish + North_Dutch + North_German + Southwest_French @ 2.389788
18 Irish + North_German + Orcadian + Southwest_French @ 2.389991
19 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + Southwest_French @ 2.402266
20 Irish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Southwest_French @ 2.403934

Dodecad K12b
Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad @ 4.284169
2 Dutch_Dodecad @ 5.943704
3 Kent_1000Genomes @ 6.890225
4 CEU30_1000Genomes @ 7.251928
5 English_Dodecad @ 7.435310
6 French_Dodecad @ 7.786541
7 French_HGDP @ 8.349231
8 British_Isles_Dodecad @ 8.790556
9 German_Dodecad @ 9.041903
10 Cornwall_1000Genomes @ 9.148464
11 British_Dodecad @ 9.631158
12 Argyll_1000Genomes @ 10.458849
13 Irish_Dodecad @ 10.739203
14 Orcadian_HGDP @ 10.955651
15 Orkney_1000Genomes @ 11.019531
16 Norwegian_Dodecad @ 15.969492
17 Hungarians_Behar @ 16.370518
18 Swedish_Dodecad @ 17.964924
19 Cataluna_1000Genomes @ 21.695934
20 Galicia_1000Genomes @ 22.194016

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French_Dodecad +50% German_Dodecad @ 2.863179


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad +25% N_Italian_Dodecad +25% Norwegian_Dodecad @ 2.132962


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++
1 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Orkney_1000Genomes @ 2.054280
2 Andalucia_1000Genomes + Argyll_1000Genomes + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Ukranians_Yunusbayev @ 2.071178
3 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Orcadian_HGDP @ 2.081595
4 British_Isles_Dodecad + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Irish_Dodecad @ 2.084175
5 British_Isles_Dodecad + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Cornwall_1000Genomes @ 2.092266
6 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Irish_Dodecad @ 2.096346
7 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + CEU30_1000Genomes + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Irish_Dodecad @ 2.102695
8 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + English_Dodecad + Irish_Dodecad @ 2.108549
9 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Irish_Dodecad + Kent_1000Genomes @ 2.110814
10 British_Isles_Dodecad + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Orcadian_HGDP @ 2.113573
11 British_Dodecad + British_Isles_Dodecad + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes @ 2.126146
12 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + CEU30_1000Genomes + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Orcadian_HGDP @ 2.126350
13 British_Dodecad + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Irish_Dodecad @ 2.128563
14 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Kent_1000Genomes + Orcadian_HGDP @ 2.129776
15 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + English_Dodecad + Orcadian_HGDP @ 2.130298
16 Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + Norwegian_Dodecad @ 2.132962
17 British_Dodecad + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Orcadian_HGDP @ 2.139168
18 Andalucia_1000Genomes + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + Polish_Dodecad @ 2.151240
19 Argyll_1000Genomes + British_Isles_Dodecad + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes @ 2.153318
20 British_Dodecad + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Cornwall_1000Genomes + Orkney_1000Genomes @ 2.153912

Dodecad World 9
Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad @ 1.318480
2 Dutch_Dodecad @ 1.511214
3 German_Dodecad @ 2.040677
4 CEU30_1000Genomes @ 3.005430
5 Kent_1000 Genomes @ 3.328072
6 Cornwall_1000 Genomes @ 3.358555
7 British_Dodecad @ 3.593587
8 British_Isles_Dodecad @ 4.626704
9 Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 4.976975
10 Irish_Dodecad @ 5.243227
11 Orcadian_HGDP @ 5.551147
12 Hungarians_Behar @ 5.883585
13 Orkney_1000 Genomes @ 6.026639
14 Ukranians_Yunusbayev @ 6.292351
15 Polish_Dodecad @ 7.089600
16 French_HGDP @ 7.467748
17 French_Dodecad @ 8.547024
18 Belorussian_Behar @ 9.147518
19 Norwegian_Dodecad @ 9.947915
20 Swedish_Dodecad @ 10.322697

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad +50% Dutch_Dodecad @ 1.182867


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Dutch_Dodecad +25% Hungarians_Behar +25% Cornwall_1000 Genomes @ 0.819123


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++
1 Irish_Dodecad + Dutch_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + Lithuanians @ 0.573388
2 Dutch_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + Orcadian_HGDP + Lithuanians @ 0.593152
3 Irish_Dodecad + German_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + Lithuanians @ 0.646520
4 Irish_Dodecad + Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + Lithuanians @ 0.694547
5 German_Dodecad + North_Italian_HGDP + Lithuanians + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 0.718274
6 N_Italian_Dodecad + Lithuanians + Kent_1000 Genomes + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 0.737136
7 Irish_Dodecad + German_Dodecad + North_Italian_HGDP + Lithuanians @ 0.737460
8 German_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + Orcadian_HGDP + Lithuanians @ 0.739124
9 N_Italian_Dodecad + Lithuanians + Cornwall_1000 Genomes + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 0.741605
10 German_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + Lithuanians + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 0.748414
11 Dutch_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + Lithuanians + Orkney_1000 Genomes @ 0.753442
12 Irish_Dodecad + Dutch_Dodecad + North_Italian_HGDP + Lithuanians @ 0.753633
13 Irish_Dodecad + Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + Hungarians_Behar @ 0.758829
14 Irish_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + Lithuanians + Kent_1000 Genomes @ 0.761502
15 Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + Lithuanians + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 0.778489
16 Dutch_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + Lithuanians + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 0.788686
17 German_Dodecad + Dutch_Dodecad + Hungarians_Behar + Kent_1000 Genomes @ 0.789454
18 Dutch_Dodecad + North_Italian_HGDP + Lithuanians + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 0.793454
19 Irish_Dodecad + N_Italian_Dodecad + Lithuanians + Cornwall_1000 Genomes @ 0.802222
20 German_Dodecad + Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + Hungarians_Behar + Kent_1000 Genomes @ 0.807153

You'll see a lot of germanic, irish and cornish which isn't to say your not of Kent descent, its just harder to pinpoint due to its mixture of early Britons and Germanic groups.

greerpalmer
03-08-2018, 07:07 PM
Sorry for the long posts, but here is LivingDNA's write up on the South East of England which you may find interesting.


Southeast England
South East England is best characterised as the landing point for the many settlers who have arrived in Britain from Europe over the millennia - prehistoric European hunter gatherers and farmers, Gauls, Romans, Jutes, Saxons, and Normans have all come ashore here after crossing from the continent. Settlers, conquerors, traders, and refugees have all therefore contributed to the diverse genetic heritage found within the region even today. In addition to their DNA, they also carried with them new cultural ideas and technology which has revolutionised Britain across the millennia.

Remarkably, we can still detect the DNA of nomadic Stone Age people that first settled Britain at the end of the last ice age - the same signature that can also be found in western Germany, north western France, and Belgium today. Subsequent waves of migration have added to this melting pot, including the Europeans who bought farming, bronze, and iron to Britain. The Romans appear to have left little in the way of a genetic legacy when compared to the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes. The genes of this region are possibly 10-40% derived from these Germanic invaders who later settled into kingdoms. The subsequent Norman invaders politically transformed the region, and placed South East England at the heart of a kingdom which has maintained the same European connections first established 12000 years ago.

Stone Age and Hunter Gatherers
Stone Age people settled here around 12000 years ago after the last ice age (Conneler et al 2012, 1006). These continental hunter gatherers arrived to hunt the wildlife that flourished as the severe arctic tundras receded (The British Museum), leaving genetic signatures that can also be found today in Western Germany, Northwestern France, and Belgium. Around 6000 years later, there is evidence suggesting a migration from France. These people may have been the first to introduce farming techniques to Britain, which were readily taken up by the indigenous hunter gatherer population, changing the face of Britain forever (Cockburn et al. 1969).

Bronze Tools
After farming, the next major technological revolution in Britain was the introduction of bronze tools, which appears to have been brought over by the Beaker People (possibly from modern day Switzerland) around 4500 years ago. Again, this new knowledge and people were absorbed by the existing island population. The Iron Age (800BC-50AD) is also characterised by a movement of people from the continent, probably from France (Leslie et al 2015, 313) which most likely introduced continental language and culture to Britain. By the time the Romans arrived in 50AD, this region was populated by the Regni, Cantiaci, and Atrebates tribes. These tribes were amongst the most influenced by continental culture, and were amongst the first to adopt the use of coins and the continental custom of cremation funerals (BBC History 2014).

Roman Genetics

For now, no detectable Roman genetic signature has been found in Britain. Quite possibly this is due to ruling elites not intermarrying with local people (Coghlan 2015), or perhaps due to many so-called ‘Roman’ people originating from all across Europe. Romans were however extremely prevalent within South East England - Richborough castle in Kent was arguably the point at which the Romans landed, and the tribes within this region were very pro-Roman, perhaps due to pre-existing trade links established over the past century (BBC History 2014). The Romans left Britain in 410AD, and soon after there was a big wave of migration and invasion from Germanic people now known as the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes, whose genetic signatures are very prevalent even today. An estimate from Leslie et al (2015) suggests that South East England has amongst the highest proportion of Anglo Saxon genetics across the UK. The South East was home to the Kingdom of Kent (established by Jutes) and the Kingdom of Sussex (established by Saxons). These two kingdoms may have even been under control of the Merovingian kings in France at one point, showing just how connected to the continent this area has always been (Brooks & Harrington 2010, 46). The final group of invaders at the end of this tumultuous millennium were the Normans, who famously fought King Harold II here at Hastings. Sussex and Surrey very quickly found their local Saxon rulers replaced by Norman knights, and Kent was placed under the rule of the infamous Odo of Bayeux (BBC Legacies 2004). However, it is thought that these new rulers did not intermarry much with the local populace, as so far we have not been able to detect their genetic signature in the modern region.

Distinct Genetics in South East
South East England is genetically distinct from the rest of England today thanks in part to the ancient boundaries established by some of these people. To the north, the Thames river has always been a natural geographic border, and has separated both the Iron Age Cantiaci and Trinovantes people, and later the Anglo Saxon kingdoms of Sussex and Essex. To the west, the Regneses were bordered by the Atrebates and Belgae people, and the Kingdom of Sussex was neighboured by the powerful Kingdom of Wessex. It may seem incredible, but these boundaries established thousands of years ago are probably responsible for the genetic heritage of this region. (Britain Express 2016; Rimmer 2016; Leslie et al 2015, 313).

The Stone Age Settlers
The European Stone Age settlers of Britain made their crossing over the land bridge that at the time connected the south of England to the mainland. These people were following the forests that grew in the wake of retreating glaciers at the end of the last ice age - they would have hunted deer, boar, and rabbit, and would have also foraged many of the new plants that were growing with the changing climate. Until recently archaeologists thought that these people were completely nomadic, but new evidence from settlements such as Star Carr in Yorkshire shows that these people would still have sometimes built settlements for at least semi-permanent dwelling (Current Archaeology, 2013).

By the time the Romans arrived in Britain, successive waves of migration from areas such as Northern France had brought numerous technological and cultural changes to Britain. Agriculture had been introduced which caused previously nomadic people to settle down into villages and towns in order to be able to farm effectively. This led to the rise of distinct tribes as power and wealth became accumulated by elite members of society (The British Museum). Stone tools had been replaced by bronze, which in turn was replaced by iron. In South East England immediately before the Roman conquest, the people of this area may have belonged to either the Regni tribe (located mainly in West Sussex), the Cantiaci tribe (located mainly in East Sussex and Kent), or the Atrebates tribe (located partly in Surrey) (BBC History 2014). These people were very much influenced by their continental cousins across the channel, more so than any other tribe in Britain. The sea at this time would have probably served as a highway on which goods, people, and ideas could flow. People from one of these tribes would have been amongst the first British people to use coins, and also often lived in large, fortified lowland settlements very similar to those found in Northern France (Manco 2015).

The Influence of Tribes in Central England
The south and centre of England was also deeply influenced by the Anglo-Saxons (Leslie et al 2015, 313). The south east of England was the heart of two powerful kingdoms - the Jutish Kingdom of Kent and the Saxon Kingdom of Sussex. In fact the legendary Hengist and Horsa from the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles were said to be the first of these people to arrive in Britain in what is now Kent. Whilst the characters themselves are probably mythical, the arrival of Germanic settlers here before other regions makes geographic sense and so may be based in fact (Encyclopaedia Britannica 2016). We owe much of our British customs today from these people. The basis for the English language, many of our shire boundaries, and our judicial system all have their roots in this time. The majority of Anglo-Saxons from this era would have been farmers or craftsmen, living in village communities or small towns. Social ties were based around notions of kinship and obligations to family that were taken extremely seriously. The culture of Kent and Sussex at this time appears to be different to the culture of the rest of England, perhaps due to the kingdoms’ links to France, Saxony, and Frisia (Thomas 2013, 10). Interestingly, the South Saxons at this time appear to have a less extravagant material culture compared to their northern counterparts, although some have suggested that they made up for this by being more concerned with importing luxury foods instead (Thomas 2013, 9)!

Contributing Regions
The contributing regions for the Southeast England region shows which regions outside the Great Britain and Ireland region that had the greatest influence on the DNA of the people of the Southeast England region. This is calculated by comparing the DNA of the people that define the Southeast England region to only population excluding those of Great Britain and Ireland. In effect, it helps show where the ancestors of the Southeast England region came from. If you were 100% from the Southeast England region then these percentages give you an indication of your deeper ancestry up to 10,000 years ago. If you were 50% from this region then it indicates where half your deeper ancestry up to 10,000 years ago came from.

France 14.2%
Germany 13.3%
Denmark 11.3%
Belgium 4.75%
Sweden 2.55%
Spain 1.15%
Norway 0.43%
Technical Note
East Anglia and the Southeast are the regions of the UK most similar to Germanic populations such as Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands.

If you have Southeast England ancestry that you didn’t expect: If you expected Germanic ancestry, then it is likely that it has been mistaken for British ancestry. If you expected British ancestry, but not East Anglian, then it is possible that you possess a slightly higher Anglo-Saxon ancestry proportion than expected and East Anglia is used to represent this.

If you have Southeast England ancestry but it is not inferred as strongly as expected: This appears to empirically be quite rare, so it may be real; however, this ancestry can sometimes be spread over several neighbouring populations.

London and other big cities: Ancestry for people from large cities is very diverse. People from London and other large cities are more likely to have ancestors who have travelled from other parts of the country, often many different places. Their ancestry will reveal this mixture, and it is not possible to define London in terms of a single genetic group.

Saetro
03-08-2018, 07:15 PM
I was just wondering if you know if you have any family in America. My Great-grand father's family was from Maid stone Kent.

Great place, Maidstone.
There are 19th century accounts of Kentish people still using everyday words associated with Frisians.
The Frisian islands are on the seaward side of Holland up to Germany.
Maybe that is where some AngloSaxons came from to this area of England.

When I was living in the area, an earthwork just north of nearby Sittingbourne was pointed out as being a one-time camp of Hengist and Horsa, but I don't know if that still holds.
And Kent is closest to Belgium and some people say now that it (Cantium) may have been one of the areas settled by Belgae back just before Roman times. Who the Belgae were is still a point of discussion, but the tendency is to think they were a bit more Germanic.

If you get a chance to get over there, I suggest you spend at least a half day walking the nearby North Downs Way.
Parts still feel very old - at least mediaeval/Chaucerian.

JerryS.
03-09-2018, 01:37 AM
Great place, Maidstone.
There are 19th century accounts of Kentish people still using everyday words associated with Frisians.
The Frisian islands are on the seaward side of Holland up to Germany.
Maybe that is where some AngloSaxons came from to this area of England.

When I was living in the area, an earthwork just north of nearby Sittingbourne was pointed out as being a one-time camp of Hengist and Horsa, but I don't know if that still holds.
And Kent is closest to Belgium and some people say now that it (Cantium) may have been one of the areas settled by Belgae back just before Roman times. Who the Belgae were is still a point of discussion, but the tendency is to think they were a bit more Germanic.

If you get a chance to get over there, I suggest you spend at least a half day walking the nearby North Downs Way.
Parts still feel very old - at least mediaeval/Chaucerian.

on one calculating model (I think MDLP K23b) I get Frisian as my primary ethnicity on the mixed mode population sharing. that seems spot on because that region is the midway point for my North German (Bremen) ancestors and my Colonial American (Dartford England) ancestors. of course I get Scottish groups on Dodecad V3 as a primary and I do have one for sure Scotsman ancestor... but England Scotland... its the same island that was subjected to Viking, and Anglo-Saxon influences.

Elizemay
05-14-2018, 04:14 AM
Hello, my first time posting here. I saw this thread and it's relevant to me in that, I just got my ancestry results back and it says I'm 90% Great Britain. I don't have much documentation on my family tree; other than a cousin who has traced part of my paternal leneage to 1600s Germany.

Nqp15hhu
05-14-2018, 03:50 PM
Welcome to the board Mattychatty. I'm afraid that I can't comment on the Great Britain data set reference for Ancestry.com, although I am interested, as I am waiting for results from them. I suspect that although they separate Irish from British, that it may still have a "Celtic" bias - but we shall see what others say. I have previously tested FT-DNA, 23andMe, and Living DNA. That last test is the best DNA test for trying to ascertain where in Britain, ancestors might have lived. Hope to see more of you, and welcome to the journey.

If it has a Celtic Bias why do I and most people from the island of Ireland and Scotland have very low GB amounts? My experience suggests that the GB category mainly focuses on Southern England; your region.

jshook
05-17-2018, 03:47 AM
If it has a Celtic Bias why do I and most people from the island of Ireland and Scotland have very low GB amounts? My experience suggests that the GB category mainly focuses on Southern England; your region.

I can definitely say that, at least for me, Ancestry does have a Celtic bias. My ancestry is predominantly English with just a little bit Scottish on paper. But Ancestry has me at 31% Ireland/Scotland/Wales and 17% Great Britain. Conversely, Living DNA puts all of my European ancestry in English breakdowns except for a 6.4% Northwest Scotland result (and arguably a 3% Northumbria result, which straddles England and Scotland), which is much closer to what it actually should be.

I think you're basically agreeing with the original poster. He/she is saying that unless you're from very southern England, you're going to get high concentrations of Ireland/Scotland/Wales resuls, even if your ancestry isn't in that category. Which would explain why people in say, central or northern England, get very low GB results even though it should be reversed.

Solothurn
05-17-2018, 05:07 AM
Hi and welcome Mattychatty :)

Gedmatch calcs will give you more ancient origins and they all vary.

BTW unless you buy the full test at LivingDNA uploading data (when it becomes available) will not give a regional breakdown. So I believe anyway :(

On Ancestry I get

34% Great Britain
28% Scandinavia
20% Ireland

Low Confidence Regions

7% Europe West
6% Italy/Greece
4% Finland/Northwest Russia

***

Be interesting to see what Myheritage gives you if you upload your data! My wife gets 84% English!!!

Molfish
05-17-2018, 06:23 AM
It would seem likely that Great Britain refers mostly to South East England, at least according to my results. Most of my English ancestry, which is from the North Midlands, is taken up by 'Europe West' at 28%, even though it's not situated in that circle. Great Britain is only 9%. Even Ireland/Scotland/Wales at 60% takes up slightly more of it than Great Britain.

jshook
05-17-2018, 04:33 PM
Hi and welcome Mattychatty :)

Gedmatch calcs will give you more ancient origins and they all vary.

BTW unless you buy the full test at LivingDNA uploading data (when it becomes available) will not give a regional breakdown. So I believe anyway :(

On Ancestry I get

34% Great Britain
28% Scandinavia
20% Ireland

Low Confidence Regions

7% Europe West
6% Italy/Greece
4% Finland/Northwest Russia

***

Be interesting to see what Myheritage gives you if you upload your data! My wife gets 84% English!!!

I will say that uploading my Ancestry DNA results to MyHeritage came back with a comically bad result. I am certainly not 36% Scandinavian and I have no Greek ancestry whatsoever. lol

23233

jshook
05-17-2018, 04:40 PM
It would seem likely that Great Britain refers mostly to South East England, at least according to my results. Most of my English ancestry, which is from the North Midlands, is taken up by 'Europe West' at 28%, even though it's not situated in that circle. Great Britain is only 9%. Even Ireland/Scotland/Wales at 60% takes up slightly more of it than Great Britain.

That's an interesting theory and might explain why my Ancestry result is so skewed towards Ireland/Scotland. I have virtually no southeastern England ancestry whatsoever. I got no region that included anything south or east of Oxfordshire in my Living DNA results, whereas everyone else seems to get at least some East Anglia and Southeast England results. I guess my ancestors just didn't like London. lol

msmarjoribanks
05-18-2018, 02:07 AM
It would seem likely that Great Britain refers mostly to South East England, at least according to my results. Most of my English ancestry, which is from the North Midlands, is taken up by 'Europe West' at 28%, even though it's not situated in that circle. Great Britain is only 9%. Even Ireland/Scotland/Wales at 60% takes up slightly more of it than Great Britain.

You'd think it would be SE England that gets the Europe West. I have yet to understand what's up with Ancestry's results as I don't see a pattern.

My own English is predominantly a mix of SE England (Essex and Suffolk) and Midlands (Shropshire), with some other farther back less certain but at least some Suffolk and Devon (but really too far back to try to be specific, but in any case Living DNA seems agree with the paper records pretty well and thinks predominantly southern). Ancestry (and no other company so far) pegs it almost all as Europe West (I get 19% Irish/Welsh/Scottish, but that's roughly correct, and only 4% Great Britain, the rest going to Europe West or Scandinavian).

I think Norfolk L-M20 is an example of something similar too, if memory serves, without the mix that makes my own pretty confusing to sort out, probably.

Molfish
05-18-2018, 05:23 AM
You'd think it would be SE England that gets the Europe West. I have yet to understand what's up with Ancestry's results as I don't see a pattern.

My own English is predominantly a mix of SE England (Essex and Suffolk) and Midlands (Shropshire), with some other farther back less certain but at least some Suffolk and Devon (but really too far back to try to be specific, but in any case Living DNA seems agree with the paper records pretty well and thinks predominantly southern). Ancestry (and no other company so far) pegs it almost all as Europe West (I get 19% Irish/Welsh/Scottish, but that's roughly correct, and only 4% Great Britain, the rest going to Europe West or Scandinavian).

I think Norfolk L-M20 is an example of something similar too, if memory serves, without the mix that makes my own pretty confusing to sort out, probably.
My Living DNA had 10% East Anglia related (East Anglia + SE England) on Cautious mode, which lines up with the 9% Great Britain I get on Ancestry. That's probably just a coincidence though.

If you've looked on Lukasz M's K36 thread he once mentioned that there are different streams of historical migration still evident in the British population, even in SE England. Perhaps that is the reason for some of the discrepancy. The Great Britain category may line up with one of these streams and not another.

I also posted it on 23&Me thread.

Eastern English / north Dutch similarity: it is in most cases so called common North-Sea Germanic ancestry. I hesitate to call it false positive. I think of Anglo-Saxon migration or even older Ingveonic ancestry for forefathers of NW Germanic people.

Yes all known ancestors of Firemonkey are from British Isles. But for centuries they harbored those genetic components which make them similar to their kin on the other side of the sea. This ancestry couldn't be diluted because Anglo-Saxons arrived in too big number to be dominated by local inhabitants in large part.

I can distinguish four main ancestry trends among tested Brits.
1. Described above, peaks in SE-England, NE-England. connection with North Dutch, Lower Saxony, Schleswig, Denmark less likely.
2. It's mutation with stronger ties with Denmark and Norway and NW-France, of course more Scandinavian than Anglo-Saxon. Usually peaks in NE-England, Cumbria, Ulster, Scotland little less.
3. Atlantic facade (SW-England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland and NW-England little less), Beaker / older Celtic wave with minor remnants of neolithic ancestry. On continent it is connected to Britanny, west French region and even weakly to Galicia.
4. Four variant is connected with Belgium, South Dutch, Rhineland Germans, NE-France. It is in my opinion remnant of Belgae / northern Gaul expansion. Peaks on the other side of channel in SE-England and usually radiates to NW-England also. I think such type of ancestry is underestimated in official surveys but it's quite popular.

So in SE-England we have two different ancestries visible, with different continental ties, depends on individual. But I saw this too may times to dismiss it.

msmarjoribanks
05-18-2018, 11:23 AM
My Living DNA had 10% East Anglia related (East Anglia + SE England) on Cautious mode, which lines up with the 9% Great Britain I get on Ancestry. That's probably just a coincidence though.

I think so, unless we see more of a pattern.


If you've looked on Lukasz M's K36 thread he once mentioned that there are different streams of historical migration still evident in the British population, even in SE England. Perhaps that is the reason for some of the discrepancy. The Great Britain category may line up with one of these streams and not another.

I agree about the different migration streams -- that's partly what I'm thinking, that on average SE England would look more like Europe West due to those differences. But depends on what the specific pools are for both, of course. I have no strong attachment to any particular theory yet.

mwauthy
05-18-2018, 12:29 PM
I think the Great Britain category is a Germanic/Celtic mixture than can be substituted with the Ireland/Scotland/Wales category and Scandinavian category. Reason I say this is for a few reasons:

1. My momís scores:
Great Britain 23%
Scandinavia 17%
Ireland/Scotland/Wales 9%

Her brotherís scores:
Great Britain 64%
Scandinavia 0%
Ireland/Scotland/Wales <1%

2. Iíve also seen the scores for many Americans who have a lot of mixed ancestry from Ireland, Scandinavia, and Germany receive very high Great Britain percentages.

ianz91
05-18-2018, 02:33 PM
I will say that uploading my Ancestry DNA results to MyHeritage came back with a comically bad result. I am certainly not 36% Scandinavian and I have no Greek ancestry whatsoever. lol

23233


MyHeritage is awful lol

sktibo
05-18-2018, 04:53 PM
I think the Great Britain category is a Germanic/Celtic mixture than can be substituted with the Ireland/Scotland/Wales category and Scandinavian category. Reason I say this is for a few reasons:

1. My mom’s scores:
Great Britain 23%
Scandinavia 17%
Ireland/Scotland/Wales 9%

Her brother’s scores:
Great Britain 64%
Scandinavia 0%
Ireland/Scotland/Wales <1%

2. I’ve also seen the scores for many Americans who have a lot of mixed ancestry from Ireland, Scandinavia, and Germany receive very high Great Britain percentages.

I've observed the same. Also if someone with a lot of GB re-tests, it splits on the second test into a bit more Ireland and or Scandinavia. I believe this to be because the main source of this category, the SE English, have a good mix of Celtic and Germanic like DNA so when we get certain Americans that test -who often seem to be a German and Irish mix - they come out as overwhelmingly GB. Ancestry perhaps doesn't realize how desperately their test needs that update currently in beta testing or whatever it is.

Molfish
05-18-2018, 05:08 PM
It's delightful that the main advertisement on the UK Ancestry site says that the average British person is only 36% British - based on their obviously highly accurate Great Britain category. No agenda there.

I really wish we could bypass these awful companies.

mwauthy
05-19-2018, 01:47 AM
I've observed the same. Also if someone with a lot of GB re-tests, it splits on the second test into a bit more Ireland and or Scandinavia. I believe this to be because the main source of this category, the SE English, have a good mix of Celtic and Germanic like DNA so when we get certain Americans that test -who often seem to be a German and Irish mix - they come out as overwhelmingly GB. Ancestry perhaps doesn't realize how desperately their test needs that update currently in beta testing or whatever it is.

On a side note Living DNA says that French people can often pop up as mixtures of English and Italian or German and Spanish. I guess those are the choices for people in between Northern and Southern Europe.

My mom:
17% Scandinavian
32% Iberian Peninsula

Her brother:
64% Great Britain
21% Europe South

Are these companies really telling you your ancestry or is it some Gedmatch type oracle compromise?

They are both French Canadian with the same parents by the way.

sktibo
05-19-2018, 04:09 AM
On a side note Living DNA says that French people can often pop up as mixtures of English and Italian or German and Spanish. I guess those are the choices for people in between Northern and Southern Europe.

My mom:
17% Scandinavian
32% Iberian Peninsula

Her brother:
64% Great Britain
21% Europe South

Are these companies really telling you your ancestry or is it some Gedmatch type oracle compromise?

They are both French Canadian with the same parents by the way.

I'd like to go with some Gedmatch type oracle compromise, but looking at how different the results of those siblings are I think that is being too kind to Ancestry's calculator

Nqp15hhu
05-19-2018, 12:09 PM
I can definitely say that, at least for me, Ancestry does have a Celtic bias. My ancestry is predominantly English with just a little bit Scottish on paper. But Ancestry has me at 31% Ireland/Scotland/Wales and 17% Great Britain. Conversely, Living DNA puts all of my European ancestry in English breakdowns except for a 6.4% Northwest Scotland result (and arguably a 3% Northumbria result, which straddles England and Scotland), which is much closer to what it actually should be.

I think you're basically agreeing with the original poster. He/she is saying that unless you're from very southern England, you're going to get high concentrations of Ireland/Scotland/Wales resuls, even if your ancestry isn't in that category. Which would explain why people in say, central or northern England, get very low GB results even though it should be reversed.

I suppose yes, I have read about Germans getting GB too.

Nqp15hhu
05-19-2018, 12:10 PM
You'd think it would be SE England that gets the Europe West. I have yet to understand what's up with Ancestry's results as I don't see a pattern.

My own English is predominantly a mix of SE England (Essex and Suffolk) and Midlands (Shropshire), with some other farther back less certain but at least some Suffolk and Devon (but really too far back to try to be specific, but in any case Living DNA seems agree with the paper records pretty well and thinks predominantly southern). Ancestry (and no other company so far) pegs it almost all as Europe West (I get 19% Irish/Welsh/Scottish, but that's roughly correct, and only 4% Great Britain, the rest going to Europe West or Scandinavian).

I think Norfolk L-M20 is an example of something similar too, if memory serves, without the mix that makes my own pretty confusing to sort out, probably.

I guess Ancestry used Southerners as their reference frame, rather than people from all over GB?

msmarjoribanks
05-19-2018, 08:44 PM
Could be, but it's not just that.

It doesn't seem to have a pattern as to when it breaks up GB into component parts (as it does with some -- I think this is related to the "Ancestry overstates Scandinavian" thing) and when it combines component parts into GB (as with Americans who are Irish and German and get GB, or perhaps why some Germans and Scandinavians get surprisingly high GB). I do think it's some weird oracle thing.

mwauthy
05-20-2018, 03:12 PM
I'd like to go with some Gedmatch type oracle compromise, but looking at how different the results of those siblings are I think that is being too kind to Ancestry's calculator

Here are their full scores without trace regions. French Canadians seem to be lacking whatever genes are associated with the Europe West region. Europe South and Iberian Peninsula seem to be almost interchangeable.

Mom:
Iberian Peninsula 32%
Great Britain 23%
Scandinavia 17%
Europe South 15%
Ireland/Scotland/Wales 9%

Her brother:
Great Britain 64%
Europe South 21%
Iberian Peninsula 10%

Sizzles
05-21-2018, 09:51 AM
Yes my German and Irish seems to be tied up in my 24% Great Britain from ancestry too. I do have 5% Ireland Scotland Wales too.but no German. Both of my Irish and German ancestors were early settlers of western PA, Ohio and WVA in 1700 early1800s. I also have extensive family tree.