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View Full Version : L2 derived but Z49, Z142 and FGC22963 not sure



St. Pierre
06-18-2017, 11:04 PM
I tested with 23andme and got positive for L2, uploaded the raw data to Wegene, Gedmatch and Chris Morley's Haplo Predictor and all 3 said I was L2 also, so I put my raw data thru Whit Athey's y-haplo tool and it gave me STR's and then I manually put them in Nevgens haplo group predictor and all of their R1b tools said I was 95-100% probability as R1b/U152/L2/Z49/Z142/FGC22963 so I was wondering if this is a good indication that I am R1b/Z49/Z142/FGC22963 or are any of the Y Haplogroup tools not reliable or accurate? Also is their any other tools that are good and reliable?

thanks
Adam R. St. Pierre

R.Rocca
06-19-2017, 01:51 PM
I tested with 23andme and got positive for L2, uploaded the raw data to Wegene, Gedmatch and Chris Morley's Haplo Predictor and all 3 said I was L2 also, so I put my raw data thru Whit Athey's y-haplo tool and it gave me STR's and then I manually put them in Nevgens haplo group predictor and all of their R1b tools said I was 95-100% probability as R1b/U152/L2/Z49/Z142/FGC22963 so I was wondering if this is a good indication that I am R1b/Z49/Z142/FGC22963 or are any of the Y Haplogroup tools not reliable or accurate? Also is their any other tools that are good and reliable?

thanks
Adam R. St. Pierre

Hello Adam. I am not sure I understand. That I know of, 23andMe does not test for STRs?... unless they have started testing them recently????

kinman
06-19-2017, 02:08 PM
Hello,
I am in Haplogroup FGC22963, so I am hoping that the Haplo Predictor is correct and that you are in our haplogroup.
I would suggest that you go to the U152 group STR tables. The weblink is given below, and then go to the bottom of that first page to click on page 3. In the middle of page 3 is where the STR results are given for members of FGC22963. See if any of them are a close match. You might also post your STR results here and I would be happy to look for close matches.
---------------Ken

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-U152?iframe=ycolorized

P.S. I see that Richard Rocca also just posted. If you don't have STR's, your SNP's would also be helpful in confirming your haplogroup. My notes show Haplogroup FGC22963 as having the following two SNP mutations: 19066987 C-T and 22146356-C-T

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I tested with 23andme and got positive for L2, uploaded the raw data to Wegene, Gedmatch and Chris Morley's Haplo Predictor and all 3 said I was L2 also, so I put my raw data thru Whit Athey's y-haplo tool and it gave me STR's and then I manually put them in Nevgens haplo group predictor and all of their R1b tools said I was 95-100% probability as R1b/U152/L2/Z49/Z142/FGC22963 so I was wondering if this is a good indication that I am R1b/Z49/Z142/FGC22963 or are any of the Y Haplogroup tools not reliable or accurate? Also is their any other tools that are good and reliable?

thanks
Adam R. St. Pierre

St. Pierre
06-19-2017, 11:18 PM
Hi kinman and R.Rocca my STR's according to what Whit Athey's tool says from my SNP's and also I added my SNP's from my 23andme raw data. thanks

SNP's from 23andMe
M288+, M176-, Page63-, PAGES00063-, SRY465-, PAGE063-, Page65.1+, PAGES00065.1+, SRY10831.1+, SRY1532.1+, SRY10831+, PF6234+, M167-, SRY2627-, M177-, SRY9138-, S27649-, P211-, M40-, PF1445-, SRY4064-, SRY8299-, Page52.3-, PAGE052-, L1035-, PF3228-, M130-, Page51-, PAGES00051-, RPS4Y-, RPS4Y711-, M387-, M4-, M406-, PF3285-, M407-, M410-, PF4941-, CTS147-, M4712-, F11-, M324-, 21354-, IMS-JST021354-, P201-, 21355-, IMS-JST021355-, S349+, L49.1+, L49.2+, PF6276+, S1999+, Page94-, PAGES00094-, PF3137-, U17-, PAGE094-, M329-, S26597+, M347-, M339-, P279-, PF5065-, M346-, L196-, M343+, PF6242+, M356-, M357-, M369-, L1251-, M370-, M365-, M365.2-, M349-, M3639+, PF2591+, PF5995-, 47z-, L1230-, PF1461-, P212-, PF3580-, P204-, L246-, M7-, S27636-, MEH2-, S27524-, L2+, S139+, P162-, PF1496-, M4720-, L208-, Page2-, PAGES00002-, P266+, P80+, P113-, P299-, P79-, P78-, F820-, Page4-, PAGES00004-, PAGE004-, P6-, PF2210-, V36-, V12-, Z1216-, PF2211-, V13-, S27275-, Page77-, PF1364-, V10-, V27-, CTS614-, M4723-, V6-, P262-, L133-, Page74-, PAGES00074-, PAGE074-, V32-, Page75-, PAGES00075-, PAGE075-, Page76-, PAGES00076-, P141+, PF2602+, S27210-, S27244+, Page71-, PAGES00071-, PAGE071-, M8537-, Page72-, PAGES00072-, PAGE072-, S27258-, P172-, PF1510-, P173-, CTS809-, L59-, S5847-, Page49-, PAGES00049-, PAGE049-, CTS1074-, M5393-, PF1519-, CTS1075-, M5394-, Page50-, PAGES00050-, PAGE050-, S27593-, M8-, P183-, PF1424-, CTS1421+, M8208+, PF6423+, M8209+, L163-, S352-, S1921-, 2611-, IMS-JST002611-, M450-, S109-, F83+, M1185+, PF5861+, P186-, M62-, M43-, M12-, F88-, P217-, PF3854-, S23-, S27767-, L845-, YSC0000278-, PF5863+, P238+, PF6115+, M4741-, P295+, PF5866+, S8+, M4742-, P229+, PF6019+, M1188+, PF5869+, L313-, M3651-, PF1426-, F115+, M1189+, PF5870+, M5409-, PF1544-, M5410-, PF1545-, S27219-, L213-, F1131-, L519-, S7522-, L515-, S27459-, P237+, PF5873+, P249-, P221-, PF3858-, S120-, S5855-, P145+, PF2617+, M4752-, P291-, P278-, P278.1-, P289-, PF1372-, M4756-, P160+, PF2618+, L51+, M412+, PF6536+, S167+, L758-, PF3663-, YSC0000285-, P130-, PF3525-, S22-, M9029-, L22-, S142-, P127-, PF3526-, M162_2-, P132+, PF5480+, P151+, PF2625+, P255-, P325-, P243+, PF5874+, P256-, M5423-, PF1562-, PF3666-, P293-, M405-, S21-, U106-, F171-, M1573-, Z2730-, P226+, PF5879+, PF1567-, M3666-, PF1580-, L486+, P167-, PF1430-, Z1893-, PF1594-, L64-, S27554+, PF518+, P261-, P216-, PF3855-, S30-, P202-, P164-, S27284-, M429-, P125-, PF3535-, M515-, P179-, DYS271-, M2-, SY81-, P129-, PF3536-, CTS1989-, M4778-, P177-, PF1939-, P143+, PF2587+, P189-, CTS2155-, M4781-, S27309-, L20-, S144-, S1561-, S27159-, L127-, F1767+, M3683+, PF2660+, CTS2664+, PF6454+, P257-, PF2950-, U6-, P244+, PF5896+, P244.2+, P61-, M9752-, Page10-, PAGES00010-, PAGE010-, P38+, PF3708+, P60-, S27390+, P58-, Page8-, PAGES00008-, PF4698-, P57-, P56-, P55-, P54-, P51-, Page9-, PAGES00009-, PAGE009-, P74-, P31-, L408-, P44-, Page11-, PAGES00011-, M481-, P49-, P36-, P30-, P47-, P29-, PF1643-, Page7-, PAGES00007-, PAGE007-, P240+, PF5897+, PF2954-, U12-, Page6-, PAGES00006-, PF5751-, PAGE006-, M8386-, Page5-, PAGES00005-, PAGE005-, P152-, PF1646-, L32-, PF3266-, S148-, U8-, CTS3229+, M672+, PF6036+, YSC0001265+, YSC1265+, S27395-, M22-, P175-, M169-, M168+, PF1416+, M171-, P117+, L5-, M179-, Page31-, PAGES00031-, PAGE031-, M170-, PF3715-, Page78-, PAGES00078-, PAGE078-, M180-, P88-, P89-, P89.1-, P92-, N1-, N5-, M181-, Page32-, PAGES00032-, M182-, PR4097-, P115-, P116-, P95-, PR4098-, P96-, M9118+, Page81+, PAGES00081+, PAGE081+, M183-, Page33-, PAGES00033-, PAGE033-, L215-, Page82-, PAGES00082-, S325-, PAGE082-, S27476-, F1857+, Page83+, PAGES00083+, PF5901+, PAGE083+, M184-, Page34-, PAGES00034-, L126-, S165-, M222-, Page84-, PAGES00084-, M185-, PF5755-, S27211-, M46-, Page70-, PAGES00070-, Tat-, M237-, M186-, F1865-, Page85-, PAGES00085-, M188-, Page87-, PAGES00087-, S27342-, M189-, M174-, Page130-, PAGES00030-, L269-, PF3135-, M238-, M9781-, Page88-, PAGES00088-, Page90-, PAGES00090-, M190-, Page35-, PAGES00035-, PF1373-, PAGE035-, M172-, Page28-, PAGES00028-, PF4908-, PF2956-, U3-, M193-, M194-, M263-, M195-, M241-, M242-, M244-, M9783-, M191-, P86-, P87-, P118-, M247-, P85-, M279-, M253-, M254-, M258-, PF3721-, M259-, M260-, Page14-, PAGES00014-, PAGE014-, M197-, M335-, M173+, P241+, Page29+, PAGES00029+, PF6126+, L117-, M5152-, Page15-, PAGES00015-, PF1657-, M377-, M378-, Page100-, PAGES00100-, M261-, M201-, PF2957-, M202-, M265-, N14-, M196-, M198-, PF6238-, M320-, P292-, M321-, M266-, M6643-, M199-, M200-, F3773-, L474-, CTS3576-, S27204-, PF2958-, U7-, CTS3656-, M4803-, S27177+, S27719-, CTS3868-, PF2669-, S27295-, CTS3936-, PF4543-, YSC0001275-, L61-, PF6570+, S28+, U152+, F1942-, Page92-, PAGES00092-, PAGE092-, P111-, P120-, P109-, S7658-, M221-, M219-, M220-, M218-, M217-, M216-, CTS4162-, M4811-, M319-, M215-, Page40-, PAGES00040-, PF1942-, M231-, Page91-, PAGES00091-, M322-, M214-, Page39-, PAGES00039-, PAGE039-, P131+, PF5493+, P104-, P103+, P102+, Page93-, PAGES00093-, S322-, PAGE093-, S27246-, L118-, CTS4249-, IMS-JST055814-, M1606-, P219-, PF3859-, S24-, S6523-, M212-, M213+, P137+, Page38+, PAGES00038+, PF2673+, PAGE038+, M211-, S27130+, L178-, S328-, S2671-, M210-, M209-, M208-, P277-, M207+, Page37+, PAGES00037+, PF6038+, UTY2+, M206-, M205-, P225+, PF6128+, F1977-, IMS-JST008425-, M5465-, PF1434-, L972-, M228-, M228.1-, M227-, M226-, M507-, P259-, M203-, Page36-, PAGES00036-, PF1435-, PAGE036-, L21-, M529-, S145-, L257-, S186-, S5432-, M3698+, PF2679+, CTS4557+, P196-, P174-, PF1674-, S27759-, S27237-, P176-, PF1678-, F313+, M1219+, F315-, M1751-, S27700+, CTS5042-, Z1122-, Page23-, PAGES00023-, PAGE023-, L162-, Page21-, PAGES00021-, PAGE021-, Page22-, PAGES00022-, L642-, L87-, CTS5280-, PF4550-, F2076-, L524-, PF3136-, L40-, S156-, S2545-, P194-, P163+, PF2686+, P252-, U174-, P155-, PF1687-, PF3742-, U179-, CTS5572-, M4822-, U181-, CTS5577-, PF6464-, CTS5628-, PF4555-, CTS5650-, PF3744-, S27178-, S27213-, U186-, M1226+, PF5915+, M696+, M4282-, L65-, M438-, P215-, PF3853-, S31-, CTS6056-, Z1123-, S27310+, L42-, S146-, L350+, M3707+, PF2692+, S27197-, P223-, PF3860-, S117-, S5857-, S27279-, S27280-, M5705+, CTS6327+, PF811+, M8411-, Page48-, PAGES00048-, PAGE048-, S27154+, M467-, S29-, U198-, P150-, PF1704-, S27150+, CTS6411-, M5480-, PF1706-, S27382-, F2319-, L496-, M3546-, PF2995-, L29-, Page47-, PAGES00047-, PAGE047-, F380-, M1757-, S27659-, CTS6532-, PF6465-, P144-, PF1436-, M1639-, P198-, CTS6802-, M5486-, PF1715-, CTS6892-, M4840-, P166+, PF2702+, P224+, PF6050+, P260-, P324-, S26598+, U209-, M353-, P140+, PF2703+, P181-, P14+, PF2704+, CTS7311-, Z1127-, P156-, PF1725-, L497-, S317-, P230+, PF5925+, P218-, S32-, S5870-, F2502-, PF4564-, P228+, PF5927+, F412-, L37-, PF6900-, S153-, S5901-, S27650-, S27317-, L88.2-, L88-, L431-, L434-, M4854-, Page68-, PAGES00068-, PAGE068-, F425-, Page69-, PAGES00069-, PAGE069-, Page66-, PAGES00066-, PAGE066-, F2561-, Page67-, PAGES00067-, PAGE067-, P286+, PF6136+, CTS7876-, PF6052-, CTS7946-, M4862-, S27263-, P236+, PF6137+, CTS8053-, M5497-, PF1738-, P239+, PF5930+, S27359-, L43-, S147-, S27637-, CTS8436+, PF6259+, P282+, PF5932+, P267-, PF6109-, P190-, P159+, PF2717+, CTS8612+, PF6260+, CTS8626+, M1239+, PF5934+, M3724-, L475-, L63-, M511-, PF6203-, S27182-, CTS8876-, PF3778-, S27313-, P200-, P153-, CTS8936-, M6-, P149+, PF2720+, P180-, PF1941-, S27443-, P199-, P297+, PF6398+, CTS9083-, M5509-, PF1764-, S27388-, S27358-, M436-, P214-, PF3856-, S33-, S5898-, L125-, S65-, CTS9264-, PF3782-, P253-, U247-, P222-, PF3861-, S118-, U250-, S5836-, L278+, P281+, PF5941+, P124-, PF3553-, S27228-, L184-, M428-, M423-, M3-, F4281-, P123-, PF3554-, P197-, L1353+, PF6489+, YSC0000294+, P235+, PF5946+, L470+, M3735+, PF2730+, CTS10058-, P182-, CTS10122-, M4880-, P192-, S27180-, L476-, P148+, PF2734+, P165-, PF1439-, F3033-, M1443-, Z2838-, M514-, PF6240-, P154-, PF1788-, F556+, PF5951+, M479-, PF6107-, L840-, P128+, PF5504+, P147-, PF1938-, M4887-, Z2841-, P234+, PF6141+, P263-, P233+, PF6142+, PF3558+, P126+, M5527-, PF1796-, PK4-, L503-, P227-, PF6500+, L1346+, M2695+, PF5505+, YSC0000222+, M5-, P73-, M16-, L968-, M29-, P3-, PN3-, P2-, PF1940-, PN2-, P72-, P71-, P70-, P168-, P135+, PF2741+, Page18-, PAGES00018-, PAGE018-, F589-, Page20-, PAGES00020-, PAGE020-, L90-, Page19-, PAGES00019-, S133-, PAGE019-, L53-, S326-, Page25-, PAGES00025-, PAGE025-, U290-, M9336+, Page26+, PAGES00026+, Page27-, PAGES00027-, M4902-, S27705-, M4903-, M11609-, M141-, M153-, M138-, M134-, M135-, M133-, M158-, M145-, P205-, PF1444-, M156-, M223-, S5776-, M101-, M161-, PF4447-, M129-, M13-, PF1374-, M14-, M10-, M28-, M9+, PF5506+, M163-, M11-, M21-, M18-, M17-, M19-, M20-, PF5570-, M23-, M58-, M155-, M27-, M31-, M30-, L4-, S178-, S1549-, M32-, M33-, M34-, PF2022-, M35-, PF1944-, M178-, M38-, M39-, M48-, PR4096-, M36-, M47-, M159-, Page96-, PAGES00096-, PAGE096-, M61-, Page43-, PAGES00043-, M37-, S27134-, M44-, M52-, M76-, M77-, Page12-, PAGES00012-, PAGE012-, M147-, M119-, M127-, M118+, M282-, M137-, M281-, M124-, M123-, PF2023-, M122-, M166-, M116-, M116.1-, M114-, S27594-, M115-, M112-, M113-, M109-, M97-, M96-, PF1823-, M98-, M146-, L882+, M3749+, PF2745+, P280+, PF6068+, M26-, PF4056-, M106-, M105-, S26596+, M25-, M165-, M42+, M323-, M45+, PF5962+, M157-, M157.2-, M152-, Page60-, PAGES00060-, M50-, M49-, Page41-, PAGES00041-, PAGE041-, M59-, M51-, Page42-, PAGES00042-, PAGE042-, M54-, M150-, Page59-, PAGES00059-, PAGE059-, M63-, PF1079-, M55-, M56-, M83-, M10255-, Page58-, PAGES00058-, M340-, M68-, M289-, M280-, M67-, PF5137-, S51-, M290-, P75-, P76-, P28-, M66-, S27500+, M160-, M73-, M73-, M74+, N12+, PF5963+, M143-, M75-, M81-, PF2554-, M151-, M154-, M224-, M78-, PF2186-, M70-, Page46-, PAGES00046-, PF5662-, M69-, Page45-, PAGES00045-, PAGE045-, M82-, M72-, M71-, M148-, V19-, M85-, M149-, M132-, M10257-, Page61-, PAGES00061-, M84-, N2-, M88-, M93-, P100-, M64-, Page44-, PAGES00044-, PAGE044-, M92-, M327-, M86-, M87-, M65-, L214-, S289-, M110-, M120-, M91-, M89+, PF2746+, M90-, M144-, M102-, S27477-, M126-, M125-, M107-, M108-, M103-, M94+, PF1081+, M95-, N4-, S27142-, S27278-, P287-, PF3140-, P284+, P283+, PF5966+, PF3819-, S27737-, L7-, L8-, Z1133-, M4915-, PF6509+, M4917-, P193-, S24307+, L161-, S185-, S2762-, L305-, M11782-, PK1-, P195-, PK2-, CTS10659-, L144-, S175-, CTS10714-, M5551-, PF1876-, L397-, PF5446-, M274-, M275-, M272-, PF5667-, M269+, PF6517+, M273-, M276-, P247-, M285-, M287-, M286-, F4320-, M267-, PF4782-, M277-, P248-, M294+, M318-, M295-, M296-, M297-, KL2-, L467-, M299+, M300-, M303-, M304-, Page16-, PAGES00016-, PF4609-, PAGE016-, M305-, Page17-, PAGES00017-, PAGE017-, M306+, PF6147+, S1+, M307-, P203-, P203.2-, M310-, PF2402-, M311-, M314-, PF4939-, M315-, PF1213-, S27135-, M317-, CTS10956-, M4924-, L14-, Page57-, S130-, U16-, P169-, Page54-, PAGES00054-, PF1878-, PAGE054-, F3373-, M2283-, Page56-, PAGES00056-, S323-, PAGE056-, Page53-, PAGES00053-, PAGE053-, L509-, Z2864-, F3384-, PF4613-, P232+, P136+, PF2762+, CTS11599-, PF1893-, CTS11732-, KHS1381212-, M342-, L614-, PF1898-, YSC0000032-, CTS11759-, M4931-, Z1137-, PK5-, S27373-, CTS11948-, PF6522-, M1272+, PF5977+, CTS12028+, P171-, PF1903-, Apt-, 50f2(P)-, M8659-, MEH1-, P4-, S27465-, L48-, S162-, P188-, PF3141-, U5-, PR7419-, P268-, PF5982+, PF1917-, P157+, PF2771+, M458-, PF6241-, M4948-, 22457+, IMS-JST022457+, P220-, S119-, S5783-, 22454-, IMS-JST022454-, S27470+, CTS12367-, M3771+, PF2775+, CTS12632+, L389+, PF6531+, CTS12947-, PF6273-, CTS12968-, M4957-

STR's according to Whit Athey's haplogroup predictor

19->20, 385a->21, 385b->24, 388->19, 389/1->16, 389/2->49, 390->29, 391->14, 392->19, 393->18, 395a->18, 395b->19, 406->15, 413a->26, 413b->27, 425->16, 426->14, 436->14, 437->18, 438->14, 439->16, 441->20, 442->16, 444->16, 445->15, 446->23, 447->34, 448->25, 449->39, 450-<6, 452->32, 454->15, 455-<6, 456->20, 458->23, 459a->12, 459b->12, 460->14, 461->14, 461->31, 462->15, 463-<16, 464a->18, 464b->20, 464c->21, 464d->22, 472->10, 481->32, 485->18, 487->16, 490->15, 492->15, 495->19, 505->16, 508->16, 511->13, 520-17, 522->17, 531->15, 532->18, 533->17, 534->21, 537->13, 540->15, 556->15, 557->22, 565->14, 568->14, 570->25, 572->14, 576->23, 578->11, 590->10, 594->15, 607->18, 617->16, 635c4->29, 640->14, 641->12, 643->16, 1B07->14, A10->24, CDYa->41, CDYb->44, H4->27, YCAIIa->24, YCAIIb-<16

kinman
06-20-2017, 01:36 AM
Hi Adam,
The SNP results make sense. However, I have never seen those kind of STR values for anyone in L2 (or U152 as a whole). I don't think I would trust Whit Athey based on those STR numbers. So to verify that you are FGC22963 you might need to check the raw data for either of these two SNP mutations: 19066987 C-T and 22146356-C-T. But I don't know whether or not 23andme tests for either of those two sites. Anyway, I will be interested to hear what Richard Rocca says about this.

R.Rocca
06-21-2017, 05:30 PM
One can only get a modal STRs from just SNPs, but it is with 100% certainty that the correlation between the two will be wrong. Please do the L2 Pack test from FamilyTreeDNA if you want to know your subclade. Anything else is just guessing.

kinman
06-21-2017, 07:22 PM
Hi Richard,
Thanks for that explanation. Since they listed positive results for Adam only down to L2, does that mean that 23andMe does not test for mutations at positions 19066987 and 22146356. Or could it perhaps mean that they test for mutations at those positions, but the results were inconclusive?
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One can only get a modal STRs from just SNPs, but it is with 100% certainty that the correlation between the two will be wrong. Please do the L2 Pack test from FamilyTreeDNA if you want to know your subclade. Anything else is just guessing.

R.Rocca
06-22-2017, 12:00 PM
Hi Richard,
Thanks for that explanation. Since they listed positive results for Adam only down to L2, does that mean that 23andMe does not test for mutations at positions 19066987 and 22146356. Or could it perhaps mean that they test for mutations at those positions, but the results were inconclusive?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That I know of, 23andMe only tests one SNP downstream from L2 and that is L20, which itself is one level below Z367. So, below L2, the 23andMe results are of no value unless you are L20+.

St. Pierre
06-22-2017, 02:11 PM
Richard where on FTDNA would I find that L2 test, I looked but could find the basic YDNA, MTDNA and Autosomal tests? In the past 6 months I've just gotten into genetic genealogy and have done ancestry and 23andme, want to do more advanced tests but cost is always a concern that slows things down for me. thanks

R.Rocca
06-22-2017, 02:43 PM
Richard where on FTDNA would I find that L2 test, I looked but could find the basic YDNA, MTDNA and Autosomal tests? In the past 6 months I've just gotten into genetic genealogy and have done ancestry and 23andme, want to do more advanced tests but cost is always a concern that slows things down for me. thanks

Have you done any testing with FamilyTreeDNA?

haleaton
06-22-2017, 02:44 PM
You go Advanced Orders, typically after clicking Upgrade at top of screen.17132

EDIT: This is if you have done testing at FTDNA before. Someone may know if you just transfer your 23andMe for free to FTDNA if it will allow you to do individual without paying for STRs.

St. Pierre
06-22-2017, 08:48 PM
No I cant afford it at the moment!

MitchellSince1893
06-22-2017, 10:07 PM
Does anybody know if you still call FTDNA.com and request a 12 marker test? I know the 12 marker test is not shown on the website, but I'd heard in the past you could call and request it via phone call. Too late to call today.

If so it may be an affordable option for St. Pierre

kinman
06-23-2017, 12:45 AM
Hi Adam,
Here is a fairly low-cost suggestion. Among the L2 subclades, you already know that you are L20 negative. The only other large subclade is Z49 (the others are quite small), so the odds are that you are Z49.
If I were in your position, I would probably take a low-cost single SNP test for Z49. You can order the test for Z49 from a company called YSEQ ( www.yseq.net ) for $18 plus shipping (and I think the shipping is around $5.00). So for less than $25 you could verify whether you are actually Z49. That's cheaper than a Z49 test from FTDNA (they charge $39).
If you are positive for Z49, you would almost certainly be part of one of its two large subclades (Z142 or S8183). Before I could save up for the Big Y test, I narrowed down my haplogroups in such a stepwise fashion (at FTDNA for $39 each, because YSEQ lower cost tests weren't available back then). Anyway, something to consider.

St. Pierre
07-23-2017, 01:45 PM
Ok just got my results from YSEQ for Z49 and I was negative for markers A113, FGC 499971, FGC8659, L1163, Y3534 and also negative for Z49 so were do I go from here and what would be my best options? I was thinking of saving up for the R1b U152 superclade test for around $100.

kw5368
07-24-2017, 01:51 PM
Have you tried running your STRs through this predictor: http://www.nevgen.org/? It works very well. I've tried it with only 37 markers and it worked great. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it should give you a place to start. Be sure to change the settings to R1b and select L2 as your known marker.

Ken

Update: Sorry, I had not read the entire thread.

MitchellSince1893
07-24-2017, 02:55 PM
Ok just got my results from YSEQ for Z49 and I was negative for markers A113, FGC 499971, FGC8659, L1163, Y3534 and also negative for Z49 so were do I go from here and what would be my best options? I was thinking of saving up for the R1b U152 superclade test for around $100.

As Richard Rocca and I mentioned earlier. The best option is to order a 12 marker FTDNA test (call them to see if it's available as they don't list it on the site anymore), then order the L2 SNP Pack test. If it's not available then ask about the 25 marker test. If that's not available the you will have to order the 37 marker test.

kw5368
07-25-2017, 06:15 PM
St. Pierre,

I tried the same thing that you did with a set of autosomal dna that I knew should have the same results as mine. While the terminal SNP generated by the converter was good (L2), running that data through the other convertor to produce STRs was not good. Running those STRs through Nevgen produced an unsupported subclade or in other words "garbage". Nevgen is very good if you have real STRs from a YDNA test, but cannot work with non factual values.

Follow Mitchell's advice when you can afford it. That's what I did with a very distant cousin I wanted to test. I did the Y37 test and then followed up with the Z49 test. This confirmed my match to this cousin back to 1665.

Roy Paul
09-27-2017, 01:04 AM
Tested positive R-Z49 I'm hoping I can get some direction on my next move ? I did the Nevgen Haplogroup predictor and it was wrong ! It said I was R1b DF27>Z196>Z272>DF17 @ 96.2 % probability so I did the DF27 SNP pack and it came back DF27* DF17- that was a wast of some funds but I took a chance thinking I could bypass the R1b - M343&M269v2 Backbone SNP Pack to save some money. So I did the backbone and I'm R-Z49. Up to now I have done Y37 then upgraded to Y67 then DF27 pack & the backbone from FTDNA. So now is there 1 final SNP pack that will take me to my terminal SNP ? Here are the SNP's I was positive for from the V2 pack CTS12684 L2 L11 L23 L51 L151 L278 L388 L389 L478 L754 P25 P297 P310 P311 P312 PF6404 PF6414 PF6535 M343 U152 Z49. Hope to get some feedback on these SNP's and what direction to go in now as funds are tight and can't afford BigY I also joined the R-U152 project @ FTDNA kit# 537140 Thanks

MitchellSince1893
09-27-2017, 01:32 AM
Tested positive R-Z49 I'm hoping I can get some direction on my next move ? I did the Nevgen Haplogroup predictor and it was wrong ! It said I was R1b DF27>Z196>Z272>DF17 @ 96.2 % probability so I did the DF27 SNP pack and it came back DF27* DF17- that was a wast of some funds but I took a chance thinking I could bypass the R1b - M343&M269v2 Backbone SNP Pack to save some money. So I did the backbone and I'm R-Z49. Up to now I have done Y37 then upgraded to Y67 then DF27 pack & the backbone from FTDNA. So now is there 1 final SNP pack that will take me to my terminal SNP ? Here are the SNP's I was positive for from the V2 pack CTS12684 L2 L11 L23 L51 L151 L278 L388 L389 L478 L754 P25 P297 P310 P311 P312 PF6404 PF6414 PF6535 M343 U152 Z49. Hope to get some feedback on these SNP's and what direction to go in now as funds are tight and can't afford BigY I also joined the R-U152 project @ FTDNA kit# 537140 Thanks

If funds are tight and you don't want to wait and save up for the BigY, then the next best choice is the Z49 SNP Pack

After you log in to FTDNA click the blue "Upgrade" button in upper right, go to the Advanced Tests on left and click "Buy Now"

Under test type select "SNP Pack" on drop down menu and click "Find",

Scroll to bottom and click page 2

Then click "R1b - Z49 SNP Pack" and "Add"

Then click orange "Order Now" button

It includes 152 SNPs of which 148 are below Z49


U152, L2, Z49, Z150, S42, CTS7970, CTS8125, CTS11381, Z51, L562, Z57, Z148, Z149, Z52, CTS11232, CTS278, Z367, PF6658, Y4355, S8183, Z68, S22778, Y16862, Y17181, Y17179, Y17180, Y17176, Y4356, Y11179, Y11180, Y11181, Y11182, Y11183, Y11184, Y11185, Y11186, Y13610, Y4353, Y4354, S12993, FGC31475, BY3626, S8172, FGC20775, FGC20778, FGC20779, FGC20781, FGC20780, FGC20782, FGC20786, Y16875, Y16876, Y16877, Y16878, Y17272, Y17273, Y17274, Z142, S18325, FGC22942, FGC22963, FGC22969, FGC22968, Z12222, Z26720, CTS9490, BY3624, A8451, A8453, A8454, A8455, BY3612, BY1210, BY3617, BY1350, BY1375, FGC37040, FGC37041, FGC37043, FGC37046, FGC37047, FGC37048, FGC37049, FGC12378, FGC12379, FGC12380, FGC12381, FGC12382, FGC12383, FGC12401, FGC12402, FGC12404, L553, BY3616, L654, A6296, A6297, A6298, A6300, A6301, A6302, CTS7197, S1491, S1480, BY3623, BY3625, Z147, Z53, BY3613, BY3614, BY3615, BY3618, BY3620, BY3621, BY3622, ZP67, Y18894, Y18895, Y18896, Y18897, BZ28, Y18899, S20376, BY5702, BY1701, FGC22938, FGC22941, FGC22952, FGC22956, Y17276, Y17277, Y17278, Y17279, Y17280, BY5699, BY5704, BY5703, BY5698, BY5700, BY5694, BY5692, BY5693, BY5695, BY5696, BY5701, BY5722, BY5723, BY5724, BY5725, BY1349, FGC12384, FGC12385

lgmayka
09-27-2017, 09:20 AM
I did the Nevgen Haplogroup predictor and it was wrong ! It said I was R1b DF27>Z196>Z272>DF17 @ 96.2 % probability so I did the DF27 SNP pack and it came back DF27* DF17- that was a wast of some funds but I took a chance thinking I could bypass the R1b - M343&M269v2 Backbone SNP Pack to save some money. So I did the backbone and I'm R-Z49. Up to now I have done Y37 then upgraded to Y67 then DF27 pack & the backbone from FTDNA. So now is there 1 final SNP pack that will take me to my terminal SNP ? Here are the SNP's I was positive for from the V2 pack CTS12684 L2 L11 L23 L51 L151 L278 L388 L389 L478 L754 P25 P297 P310 P311 P312 PF6404 PF6414 PF6535 M343 U152 Z49. Hope to get some feedback on these SNP's and what direction to go in now as funds are tight and can't afford BigY
As MitchellSince1893 wrote, the R1b-Z49 SNP Pack is probably your best choice in your situation. But heaven help you if you are actually R-Y18901 (https://yfull.com/tree/R-Y18901/)*, because the R1a-Z49 SNP Pack does not test Y18901. (It tests the Y18894 subclade, though.)

I must mention that your account is a cautionary tale of the perils of piecewise testing. I myself now generally encourage project members who are R1b to immediately start saving up money to purchase the Big Y during a discount sale--i.e., to avoid the temptation of piecewise upgrades that will only delay their ability to order what they really need. You yourself will end up having paid for 3 SNP packs and a marker upgrade, at a total cost greater than the $395 Big Y price offered during the August sale. I don't mean to criticize you or make you feel bad, but other project administrators may want to take note and perhaps adjust their recommendations accordingly.

Roy Paul
09-28-2017, 12:15 AM
Yes I made a costly mistake as I'm sure many people do, when you mention R-Y18901* what exactly does the * stand for in layman's terms ? As I have a number of them in the DF27 SNP pack and backbone test I did showing not + or - but * Thank's

lgmayka
09-29-2017, 07:48 PM
when you mention R-Y18901* what exactly does the * stand for in layman's terms ? As I have a number of them in the DF27 SNP pack and backbone test I did showing not + or - but * Thank's
YFull and FTDNA both use the asterisk, but with completely different meanings!

YFull uses the asterisk to denote tested positive for this clade, but negative for all known subclades.

FTDNA uses the asterisk to denote test results for this SNP were inconclusive.

Let's say a man is actually Y18901+ Y18894- (as YF07046 is (https://yfull.com/tree/R-Y18901/)). FTDNA's R1b-Z49 SNP Pack will not test Y18901, so instead, all tested SNPs downstream of Z49 will be negative--and he will remain classified R-Z49.

This kind of catastrophic SNP pack "failure"--in which the customer ends up no farther down the tree than before--is a major reason I recommend the Big Y so fervently.