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Pylsteen
06-23-2017, 10:30 PM
Let's give haplogroup W5 its own thread and discuss new information and discoveries regarding this relatively uncommon haplogroup.

mt-DNA haplogroup W5 is a branch of haplogroup W, that arose around ca. 12.000 BC, probably in the steppes near the Aral Sea. It probably remained on the steppe until some women having this haplogroup spread with the Corded Ware Culture; indeed, the CWC seems to have introduced this haplogroup, already split into W5a and W5b on the North European plain. It could have been spread later by the Germanic tribes too. It is generally found in the Low Countries, Germany, Denmark, Great Britain, Ireland, Poland. Its frequency is probably on the lower end of 1-5%

The most complete site for haplogroup W, and W5: http://www.thecid.com/

The oldest samples of W5 found up to date (as by Jean Manco (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml)):

- W5: Starcevo farmer, Hungary (I1880), (Y-DNA G2a), 5800-5500 BC (Lipton 2017). This could mean that some W5 was already present in the neolithic European farmers, or that this sample has an Eastern European maternal line.

- W5: Globular Amphora, Poland (I2405), (Y-DNA I2a2), 3335-3020 BC (Mathieson 2017).

- W5a: Bell Beaker, Kromsdorf, Germany, 2600-2500 BC (Lee 2012).

Pylsteen
08-25-2021, 08:49 PM
I haven't updated this thread in years, wow! In any case, besides an old farmer, GAC, CWC and Bell Beaker W5, there is now also a Funnelbeaker sample.

A repeat of the oldest samples:

~5800-5500 BC: W5 (Starcevo farmer, Hungary, id: I1880, Y-DNA G2a), (Lipton 2017)
~3335-3020 BC: W5 (Kierzkowo, Globular Amphora, Poland, id: I2405, Y-DNA I2a2) (Mathieson 2017)
~2900-2200 BC: W5a (CWC, Brandysek, Czech Rep., id: I7280, Y-DNA R1a1a) (Olalde et al. 2018).
~2800-2300 BC: W5b (CWC, Malzyce, Poland, id: poz280) (Juras et al. 2018).
~2700 BC (dating to be checked): W5 (Funnelbeaker, Makotrasy, Czech Rep., id: I7189) (Papac et al. 2021) (new!)
~2600-2500 BC: W5a (Bell Beaker, Kromsdorf, Germany) (Lee 2012).
~2500-2000 BC: W5 (Bell Beaker, Irlbach, Bavaria, id: I5834) (Olalde et al. 2018).
~2454-2236 BC: W5b (CWC Malzyce, Poland, id: poz279) (Juras et al. 2018).

These samples together strongly suggest to me nowadays that the route of W5 was from farmers travelling up the Danube, and then entered Funnelbeaker, GAC and accordingly CWC, being nowadays mostly present in Germany and surroundings. Although it can be due to sampling bias, the ancient findings seem concentrated in southern Germany, southern Poland, Bohemia and Hungary. The older theory of a steppe origin (as Wade had it years ago) appears unlikely to me now!