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nuplix
06-24-2017, 05:18 PM
For Y DNA:

Auto-extraction:
https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal

Manually:
https://ytree.morleydna.com/

For mtDNA:

https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/


The process is so simple. Just select the raw DNA data file, upload, and follow the instructions. If stuck, feel free to ask!

ArmandoR1b
06-25-2017, 12:14 AM
I wish Chris Morley would update the Y-SNP Terminal Subclade Predictor to use the most recent version of the ISOGG tree.

vettor
06-25-2017, 12:25 AM
I wish Chris Morley would update the Y-SNP Terminal Subclade Predictor to use the most recent version of the ISOGG tree.

yes

my father and son came out with T1a~1~1 CTS5470 .........both data from 23andme V4

ArmandoR1b
06-25-2017, 01:37 AM
yes

my father and son came out with T1a~1~1 CTS5470 .........both data from 23andme V4

Without more information there is no way to understand what your specific situation is. CTS5470 isn't in the 2013 or the 2017 haplogroup tree and neither is T1a~1~1. Ybrowse states that it is Aprrox. hg: T

The position of CTS5470 is 16300630 which isn't even tested by 23andme v4 so your father can't have a positive or negative for that SNP from the Morley predictor. That means that there is another SNP he is positive for that wasn't mentioned or the Morley prediction result was read incorrectly.

Will you provide a screenshot?

vettor
06-25-2017, 06:09 AM
Without more information there is no way to understand what your specific situation is. CTS5470 isn't in the 2013 or the 2017 haplogroup tree and neither is T1a~1~1. Ybrowse states that it is Aprrox. hg: T

The position of CTS5470 is 16300630 which isn't even tested by 23andme v4 so your father can't have a positive or negative for that SNP from the Morley predictor. That means that there is another SNP he is positive for that wasn't mentioned or the Morley prediction result was read incorrectly.

Will you provide a screenshot?

It states pages78 is the line............ but then it give me CTS5470 as its equivalent

No need to bother , i did bigY and I am way beyond this line down to T1a2-Z19945
It is basically a poor calculator due to old trees being used

ArmandoR1b
06-25-2017, 07:16 AM
It states pages78 is the line............ but then it give me CTS5470 as its equivalent
Page78 position 14848650 is at the T1 level on the 2013 ISOGG tree (https://isogg.org/tree/2013/ISOGG_HapgrpT13.html) and the 2017 ISOGG tree (https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpT.html) so in your case you wouldn't see a difference in an upgrade on the Morley site. The reason I mentioned I wished for an upgrade is because of the change in subclade names in some situations.


No need to bother
No bother


i did bigY and I am way beyond this line down to T1a2-Z19945
I knew that already. What I didn't know is where T1a~1~1 CTS5470 was showing in ISOGG Experimental tree ( 26 July 2013). I only have access to the last version of the ISOGG 2013 tree out of the 2013 versions.


It is basically a poor calculator due to old trees being used
No, it is not a poor calculator due to old trees being used. You are getting a very upstream result because 23andme doesn't test enough downstream SNPs because they are more interested in the health aspects of DNA testing and in the autosomal DNA. For instance, T1a2b1a1 CTS8862 position 18246590 is not tested by 23andme so even with an upgrade in the Morley predictor to the 2017 ISOGG tree you would not show to be positive for it. You would still be stuck at the T1 level which has M70/Page46/PF5662, CTS5332.1/PF7472.1, CTS5364, CTS6375, CTS9268/PF5651, CTS11054, CTS11746, Page78, PF5588, PF5608, PF5610, PF5660, PF7463

Kurumim
07-09-2017, 02:53 AM
I like this one:
Nevgen.org

ArmandoR1b
07-09-2017, 04:35 AM
I like this one:
Nevgen.org

Nevgen uses STRs so it predicts subclades which aren't tested by 23andme or AncestryDNA, or the MyHeritage autosomal DNA test. The Morley tool uses the Y-DNA SNP results from 23andMe, AncestryDNA and MyHeritage. Geno 2.0 Y-DNA csv files can also be converted to a list of positive and negative SNPs to be used in the Morley tool.

Kurumim
07-10-2017, 03:42 PM
Nevgen uses STRs so it predicts subclades which aren't tested by 23andme or AncestryDNA, or the MyHeritage autosomal DNA test. The Morley tool uses the Y-DNA SNP results from 23andMe, AncestryDNA and MyHeritage. Geno 2.0 Y-DNA csv files can also be converted to a list of positive and negative SNPs to be used in the Morley tool.

Thanks for clearing that one. I just shared anyway because that tool is gold, I tested 12 STRs and Nevgen gave me over 90% chances for E-V13, so there went to test this SNP and it was darn correct. now I can jump straight to V13-SNP pack, saving some dollars from big Y.
This all from FTDNA. but ye.

emc
09-14-2017, 11:56 AM
How reliable is MorleyDNA predictor? Can someone tell me how to read the output? Thanks.18731 18732 18733

kujira692
09-14-2017, 03:56 PM
This is in regards to the Nevgen Predictor: I've tested my father's Y-DNA with FTDNA to the point of knowing it's I1-Z59. I input the numerical values (from a Y-67 test) into the Nevgen Predictor (and I've done this numerous times), and it always comes back with a 99%-100% result of "unsupported subclade". What exactly does that mean? That few people match the group he should be in?

ArmandoR1b
09-14-2017, 06:24 PM
How reliable is MorleyDNA predictor? Can someone tell me how to read the output? Thanks.18731 18732 18733

It is very reliable once you consider the limitations which are:

1. The tool can only report what is included in the raw data. The SNPs in a red or green background are in the raw data. The SNPs without a background color aren't in your raw data.
2. The tool uses an ISOGG tree from 2013. There are a lot of SNPs that have been defined since then and included in AncestryDNA v2 and 23andme v5 but aren't in the ISOGG tree so they aren't reported.
3. Some SNPs are back mutations so you will see some false negatives such as PF6063.


You are positive for R-P310 and negative for R-U106. It looks like you had the AncestryDNA v1 test, or one that is just like it, because you don't have a positive or negative result for U152 and L21. Is that the test you had?

If you want to find your subclade you need to test with another company. The least expensive and fastest is the Yseq M343 SNP pack. https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=16349

emc
09-14-2017, 06:47 PM
It is very reliable once you consider the limitations which are:

1. The tool can only report what is included in the raw data. The SNPs in a red or green background are in the raw data. The SNPs without a background color aren't in your raw data.
2. The tool uses an ISOGG tree from 2013. There are a lot of SNPs that have been defined since then and included in AncestryDNA v2 and 23andme v5 but aren't in the ISOGG tree so they aren't reported.
3. Some SNPs are back mutations so you will see some false negatives such as PF6063.


You are positive for R-P310 and negative for R-U106. It looks like you had the AncestryDNA v1 test, or one that is just like it, because you don't have a positive or negative result for U152 and L21. Is that the test you had?

If you want to find your subclade you need to test with another company. The least expensive and fastest is the Yseq M343 SNP pack. https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=16349

Thank you for your help!
It was actually an autosomal test from MyHeritage. MH and FTDNA are the only companies that send to my country. I understand the results I get are very general, but is it clear that my haplogroup is R1b or even that can be wrong and change when I take a proper ydna test?

MacUalraig
09-14-2017, 06:50 PM
Thank you for your help!
It was actually an autosomal test from MyHeritage. MH and FTDNA are the only companies that send to my country. I understand the results I get are very general, but is it clear that my haplogroup is R1b or even that can be wrong and change when I take a proper ydna test?

YSEQ will ship to your country.

emc
09-14-2017, 06:58 PM
YSEQ will ship to your country.

Thanks! I just checked their website and you're right. I didn't know about it because I had never heard of YSEQ before.

stealth
09-14-2017, 07:27 PM
So it has me what I expected and get with other company Y-DNA I2a1b3 I2-CTS1027 (I2-CTS1846, I2-CTS4012). Also they are showing me 4 other Haplogroups, what is this 4 Haplogroups indicating are these other data that was found in my autosomal DNA or something else?


(most likely) I2a1b3 I2-CTS1027 (I2-CTS1846, I2-CTS4012)

J2a1i J2-L88 (J2-L198)
I1 I1-L759 (I1-CTS10140, I1-CTS10338)
I2a2a I2-CTS10125 (I2-CTS429, I2-CTS5286)
R1 R-PF6007 (R-F211, R-F378)

ArmandoR1b
09-15-2017, 02:57 AM
Thank you for your help!
It was actually an autosomal test from MyHeritage. MH and FTDNA are the only companies that send to my country. I understand the results I get are very general, but is it clear that my haplogroup is R1b or even that can be wrong and change when I take a proper ydna test?Yes, it is clear that you are R1b. The predictor would have put you into a different haplogroup if you had positive SNPs for other haplogroups. If you post the raw Y-DNA in an attachment or a link to a filehosting site I can tell you which ones prove you are negative for other HGs.

ArmandoR1b
09-15-2017, 03:29 AM
So it has me what I expected and get with other company Y-DNA I2a1b3 I2-CTS1027 (I2-CTS1846, I2-CTS4012). Also they are showing me 4 other Haplogroups, what is this 4 Haplogroups indicating are these other data that was found in my autosomal DNA or something else?


(most likely) I2a1b3 I2-CTS1027 (I2-CTS1846, I2-CTS4012)

J2a1i J2-L88 (J2-L198)
I1 I1-L759 (I1-CTS10140, I1-CTS10338)
I2a2a I2-CTS10125 (I2-CTS429, I2-CTS5286)
R1 R-PF6007 (R-F211, R-F378)
If you are talking about the Morley tool then you should have upstream SNPs in a red background that prove that you are negative for J2, I1, and R1. Who did you test with? Are you willing to upload a text file or Excel file with your raw Y-DNA?

stealth
09-15-2017, 03:34 AM
If you are talking about the Morley tool then you should have upstream SNPs in a red background that prove that you are negative for J2, I1, and R1. Who did you test with? Are you willing to upload a text file or Excel file with your raw Y-DNA?

My results I posted are from MorleyDNA.com I uploaded raw data and it showing me this, I am most likely I2a1b3, and then shows me also these Haplogroups

J2a1i J2-L88 (J2-L198)
I1 I1-L759 (I1-CTS10140, I1-CTS10338)
I2a2a I2-CTS10125 (I2-CTS429, I2-CTS5286)
R1 R-PF6007 (R-F211, R-F378)

What is these 4 Haplogroups? ^

ArmandoR1b
09-15-2017, 02:31 PM
My results I posted are from MorleyDNA.com I uploaded raw data and it showing me this, I am most likely I2a1b3, and then shows me also these Haplogroups

J2a1i J2-L88 (J2-L198)
I1 I1-L759 (I1-CTS10140, I1-CTS10338)
I2a2a I2-CTS10125 (I2-CTS429, I2-CTS5286)
R1 R-PF6007 (R-F211, R-F378)

What is these 4 Haplogroups? ^

They are false positives. For instance you probably have L88 in green. That is a mutation at position 17595842 T>C which means that if you look at your raw data you likely have C for that position. However, that would only matter if you had enough upstream SNPs in haplogroup J2 that are also positive. You should have enough upstream SNPs in haplogroup J that are red that prove that you don't belong to that haplogroup. The same for I1 and R1. Individual positive or negative SNPs only matter when the other SNPs are taken into consideration.

If you want to post screenshots of the Morley results after you click on those other haplogroups that aren't I2a1b3 I2-CTS1027 (I2-CTS1846, I2-CTS4012) or put your raw Y-DNA file on a file hosting site we can point out why you are negative for them.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
09-15-2017, 03:07 PM
So what is my y haplogroup?

18759

RobertCasey
09-15-2017, 03:20 PM
I like this one:
Nevgen.org
If you are known to be L21, you can use my L21 SNP predictor which will predict around 50 % of L21. It is quite dated as it just takes too much labor to manually keep up to date. It could be automated and expanded to all haplogroups - but that would require some pretty heavy duty coding. This tool only predicts YSNPs in the 1,500 to 2,500 time frame. Older YSNPs just have way too many signatures and younger YSNPs just do not usually have large enough signatures to be accurate.

http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/R-L21_SNP_Predictor_Intro.html

If somebody wants to expand the coverage of L21, I would be glad to train somebody how to manually add new haplogroups (it takes around one to two hours of analysis and updating of code per haplogroup added). Prediction of L21 could cover between 80 to 90 % of all testers. Going from 80 to 90 % would be twice as much time as the scope of haplogroups are getting pretty small in that coverage.

NevGen works across more haplogroups - but is not as comprehensive for L21. Of course, we are talking about YSTRs from FTDNA vs. 23andme YSNP extraction. The YSNPs from 23andme are so dated and so minimal, they are not very good YSNP testing. Ancestry.com is the same. LivingDNA and NatGeo are better - but these are very dated as well. Rumor has it that another company may deliver very decent comprehensive massive YSNP test in the next few months - far superior to LivingDNA or NatGeo. LivingDNA does have some more recent YSNPs added over NatGeo - but not real comprehensive.

RobertCasey
09-15-2017, 03:34 PM
So what is my y haplogroup?

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18759&stc=1

You are Haplogroup E. More specifically you are E-PF1803/L504. This branch is 53,000 years old according to YFULL. This test does not tell you too much. Most of haplogroup E are Arabs but a large percentage of the Europeans after the last big ice age were E as well. Of course, very few E survived after the R1b crowd came in with the bronze and horse technology which replaced most of the original Europeans. 53,000 years ago is so long ago that parts of E have spread across many continents in small quantities. The European minority E haplogroup have been in Europe since the last major ice age that covered half of Europe under two miles of ice (ie, no survivors). Of course, other haplogroup E spread elsewhere over 53,000 years ago as well.

You really need to test more YSNPs to get any real useful information. My most recent YSNP is now down to 300 or 400 years. But that level of YSNP testing takes a lot of time and funds to get there.

stealth
09-15-2017, 07:40 PM
They are false positives. For instance you probably have L88 in green. That is a mutation at position 17595842 T>C which means that if you look at your raw data you likely have C for that position. However, that would only matter if you had enough upstream SNPs in haplogroup J2 that are also positive. You should have enough upstream SNPs in haplogroup J that are red that prove that you don't belong to that haplogroup. The same for I1 and R1. Individual positive or negative SNPs only matter when the other SNPs are taken into consideration.

If you want to post screenshots of the Morley results after you click on those other haplogroups that aren't I2a1b3 I2-CTS1027 (I2-CTS1846, I2-CTS4012) or put your raw Y-DNA file on a file hosting site we can point out why you are negative for them.

A0-T AF3, L1085, L1089, L1090, L1093, L1095, L1098, L1099, L1101, L1105, L1116, L1118, L1120, L1121, L1123, L1124, L1125, L1127, L1128, L1129, L1130, L1132, L1135, L1136, L1137, L1142, L1143, L1145, L1150, L1155, L1235
A1 CTS3331, P305, V168, V171, V174, V238, V241, V250, L985, L986, L989, L1002, L1003, L1004, L1005, L1009, L1013, L1053, L1084, L1112, L1153, V161R
A1b P108, V221
BT M139, M42, M94/PF1081, L440, L1061/PF1101, L1062/PF302, PK1, PF1407/V29, PF1411/V59, PF1412/V64, PF1406/V102, V187, L413/PF1409/V31, L418, L438, L604/PF1243, L957, L962, L969, L970/PF1065, L971, L977, L1060/PF1021, M91, M299, P97, PAGE65/SRY1532/SRY10831R, V202, PF1410/V235
CT PF1269, PF258, CTS125, CTS5318, PF954, M294, PF779, PF110, PF821, PF1276, V189, PF192, CTS10362, CTS109, CTS11358, CTS11575, CTS1996, CTS3431, CTS3662, CTS4364, CTS4368, CTS4740, CTS5457, CTS5532, CTS6383, CTS6800, CTS6907, CTS7922, CTS7933, CTS8243, CTS8980, CTS9828, M168/PF1416, PF1016, PF1029, PF1031, PF1040, PF1046, PF1061, PF1092, PF1097, PF1203, PF210, PF212, PF223, PF234, PF263, PF272, PF278, PF292, PF316, PF325, PF342, PF500, PF667, PF719, PF725, PF796, PF803, PF815, PF840, PF844, PF892, PF937, PF951, PF970, V52, V9, P9R
CF P143
F F2048, PF2745, F2075, PF2631, F1320, F2142, F1302, F3111, F2710, F2985, L498, PF2599, CTS11726, CTS12632, CTS3536, CTS3654, CTS3868, CTS3996, CTS4443, CTS6135, F1046, F1209, F1329, F1704, F1714, F1753, F1767, F2155, F2402, F2587, F2688, F2837, F2993, F3136, F3335, F3556, F3692, F719, L350, L468, L470, PF2591, PF2593, PF2600, PF2608, PF2611, PF2615, PF2624, PF2643, PF2747, PF2748, PF2749, PF2770, V186, V205, L132R, M89/PF2746, M235/PAGE80/PF2665, PF2704/P14, PF2741/P135, PF2762/P136, PF2655/P138, PF2602/P141, PF2617/P145, PF2623/P146, PF2734/P148, PF2625/P151, PF2706/P158, PF2717/P159, PF2618/P160, PF2702/P166, PF2632/P187, M213/P137/PAGE38, P133, P134, P139, P140, P142, P149, P157, P161, P163, P316
IJK M523/L15/PF3492/S137, M522/L16/PF3493/S138
IJ L748, CTS6932, CTS9240, F1450, F1460, F2345, F2366, F2794, F3368, F3402, F4188, F922, L403, PF3504, PF3514, PF3515, PF3517, PF3518, PF3534, PF3560, PF3561, PF3562, YSC0000056, YSC0000265, PF3554/P123, PF3553/P124, PF3558/P126, PF3526/P127, PF3525/P130/S22, M429/P125, P129, S2
I PF3618, CTS10058, CTS11441, CTS2193, CTS2514/PF3706, CTS2536, CTS3517, CTS4088, CTS4848, CTS4982, CTS5650, CTS5908, CTS6265, CTS674, CTS7329, CTS7502, CTS7831, CTS8333, CTS8345, CTS8420, CTS88, CTS8876, CTS9264, L578, L751, L755, L756, L758, L772, PF3574, PF3575, PF3578, PF3586, PF3588, PF3590, PF3594, PF3596, PF3600, PF3604, PF3605, PF3611, PF3612, PF3616, PF3622, PF3625, PF3639, PF3640, PF3641, PF3642, PF3654, PF3660, PF3666, PF3672, PF3675, PF3677, PF3686, PF3694, PF3780, PF3800, PF3804, PF3806, PF3807, PF3809, PF3811, PF3814, PF3815, PF3819, PF3822, PF3836, PF3837, YSC0000256, YSC0000260, YSC0000267, YSC0000272, YSC0000280, YSC0000281, YSC0000298, YSC0000300, M170/PF3715, L41/PF3787, M258/PF3721, P19R, P38, P212, U179
I2 PF3634, PF3623, PF3664, CTS3296, CTS4039, CTS5727, PF3595, PF3607, PF3621, PF3626, PF3644, PF3651, PF3652, PF3657, PF3658, PF3667, PF3669, PF3671, PF3798, PF3801, PF3802, PF3812, PF3820, PF3849, L68/S329, M438/P215/PF3853/S31
I2a PF3573, PF3876, L460/PF3647/S238
I2a1 CTS410, CTS5044, PF3606, PF3638, PF3966, PF4058, P37R
I2a1b CTS11030, CTS1293, CTS176, CTS1802, CTS5375, CTS5985, CTS7218, CTS8239, CTS8486, L178/S328, M423
I2a1b1 M359/P41R
I2a1b2 L161/S185R
I2a1b2~1 F2633
I2a1b2~2 L170
I2a1b2~3 F3744
I2a1b2~4 PF4135
I2a1b3 CTS1027, CTS1846, CTS4012, CTS7175, CTS7213, CTS9349, F3145, L621/S392
I2a1b3~1 CTS10936, CTS11768, CTS4002
I2a1b3~1~1 CTS10228, CTS5966

Is this what you need?

ArmandoR1b
09-16-2017, 02:23 AM
So what is my y haplogroup?

18759
It looks like you are B-Pages00018 and you have a false positive for E-PF1803/L504. All of the DE SNPs are negative. Click on each haplogroup result on the left and get a screenshot of each and post them. They should have too many negative upstream SNPs like DE does.

ArmandoR1b
09-16-2017, 02:26 AM
Is this what you need?

No, I need a screenshot like the one SWAHILLI_PRINCE16 posted or the screenshots that emc posted in post #10. Or the raw Y-DNA data which makes things even easier.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
09-16-2017, 04:21 PM
It looks like you are B-Pages00018 and you have a false positive for E-PF1803/L504. All of the DE SNPs are negative. Click on each haplogroup result on the left and get a screenshot of each and post them. They should have too many negative upstream SNPs like DE does.

18783
18784
18785

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
09-16-2017, 04:39 PM
The system wont let me add the last screenshot...

ArmandoR1b
09-16-2017, 07:02 PM
The system wont let me add the last screenshot...
You are definitely negative for I1, G2, and O3a1 since there are too many upstream SNPs that are negative for each of those. The negative SNPs have a red background. If the J2 screen has the same situation you are in haplogroup B. There are two anonymous Kenyans from the 1000 Genomes project that are in haplogroup B. They are kits NA19043 and NA19454 and can be seen at https://www.yfull.com/tree/B-M150/

Teutorigos
09-28-2017, 04:54 AM
What is my Y DNA Haplogroup ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/naudiz/morleyy1_zpsdjocedyp.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/naudiz/morleyy2_zpsyt1mxkp8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/naudiz/morley3_zps15mfd2mz.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/naudiz/morley4_zpscndhrlyf.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/naudiz/morley5_zpsxlrazhzr.jpg

michal3141
10-24-2017, 08:59 AM
Is it possible to predict mtDNA haplogroup based on AncestryDNA raw data? I thought I can use https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/ but it does not seem to accept AncestryDNA raw data. From what I know there are 195 mtDNA SNPs in my AncestryDNA file. It is not much but maybe enough to predict what my general mtDNA haplogroup is.

10-24-2017, 09:16 AM
What about Wegene?

michal3141
10-24-2017, 11:39 AM
I've never tried Wegene before. I will give it a try. Thank you.

ArmandoR1b
10-24-2017, 12:42 PM
What about Wegene?


I've never tried Wegene before. I will give it a try. Thank you.

Based on the results of most people's mtDNA haplogroup at Wegene based on their AncestryDNA your result will most likely be unreliable and if it will probably be very close to the base of the tree.

10-24-2017, 12:47 PM
Based on the results of most people's mtDNA haplogroup at Wegene based on their AncestryDNA your result will most likely be unreliable and if it will probably be very close to the base of the tree.

Hiya, My results at wegene from my 23andme V4 data, was identical to that 23andme give me. Have no experience with Ancestry data

ArmandoR1b
10-24-2017, 01:18 PM
What is my Y DNA Haplogroup ?

The screenshots don't have the lower portion of your results so I am not able to tell if the Z253 is a false positive but I doubt that it is. You might also have DF13 in green and if you do it reduces the likelihood of Z253 to be a false positive. SNPs in red such as P236 are false negatives. You have enough true positive SNPs to put you into R1b based on the screenshots.

ArmandoR1b
10-24-2017, 01:19 PM
Hiya, My results at wegene from my 23andme V4 data, was identical to that 23andme give me. Have to experience with Ancestry data

Yes, 23andme tests enough of the mtDNA to get a good result with WeGene but AncestryDNA doesn't.

michal3141
10-24-2017, 01:35 PM
I've got my results from Wegene. They agree when it comes to the paternal haplogroup with Morley's Y-DNA predictor: R1a1a1b1a
However, I am still quite shocked about my mtDNA results: J1c1
Maybe it is not accurate as ArmandoR1b pointed out, but Wegenes also claim that I am about 0.51% Iranian and I found that J1c1 peaks in Iran so maybe it is not a complete nonsense.

10-24-2017, 01:39 PM
I've got my results from Wegene. They agree when it comes to the paternal haplogroup with Morley's Y-DNA predictor: R1a1a1b1a
However, I am still quite shocked about my mtDNA results: J1c1
Maybe it is not accurate as ArmandoR1b pointed out, but Wegenes also claim that I am about 0.51% Iranian and I found that J1c1 peaks in Iran so maybe it is not a complete nonsense.

Hey Michal, For Europeans the Autosomal estimate is quite trash, it gets most people very wrong, e.g on it I come out over 50% French,
From Europdia
J1c1 : found throughout Europe
J1c1a : found in the British Isles and Finland
J1c1b : found in western and northern Europe
J1c1c
J1c1d
J1c1e
J1c1f
J1c1g : found in western Europe
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J_mtDNA.shtml

So it could be right, I honestly cannot say.

michal3141
10-24-2017, 01:49 PM
Hey Michal, For Europeans the Autosomal estimate is quite trash, it gets most people very wrong, e.g on it I come out over 50% French,
From Europdia
J1c1 : found throughout Europe
J1c1a : found in the British Isles and Finland
J1c1b : found in western and northern Europe
J1c1c
J1c1d
J1c1e
J1c1f
J1c1g : found in western Europe
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J_mtDNA.shtml

So it could be right, I honestly cannot say.

For autosomal results I've got about 40% Hungarian, 30% Russian/Finnish, 27% French and a little bit of Balkan. I guess it's OK since there is no category Polish and geographically Poland is sort of in the middle of mentioned countries/ethnicities.
I found they matched 2 out 6 SNPs in my data for mtDNA J haplogroup, so I think the probability it is correct is pretty substantial.

ArmandoR1b
10-24-2017, 02:00 PM
I found they matched 2 out 6 SNPs in my data for mtDNA J haplogroup, so I think the probability it is correct is pretty substantial.

That is probably true in your case.The problem is that it isn't for a lot of other people.

Amerijoe
10-24-2017, 05:19 PM
Hiya, My results at wegene from my 23andme V4 data, was identical to that 23andme give me. Have no experience with Ancestry data

Wegene based on 23 data, J1c8. National Geo J1c4. FTDNA, 23andMe, Livingdna, J1c. Averages out to J1c3.:lol:

Arlus
11-17-2017, 11:14 PM
1984019841
These are my morely predictor results from my myheritage raw data. Can someone help me intrepreting these?

Oliver.s
12-17-2017, 01:36 PM
Hi a friend of mine has her raw dna data from ancestry.co.uk and unfortunately we can't find her mtdna haplogroup because they don't tell you it. Plus none of the mtdna haplogroup analysers support the raw data file format of ancestry.co.uk. what can she do for this? Any help would be really appreciated thank you all.

Oliver

Geborgenheit
12-17-2017, 02:08 PM
Hi a friend of mine has her raw dna data from ancestry.co.uk and unfortunately we can't find her mtdna haplogroup because they don't tell you it. Plus none of the mtdna haplogroup analysers support the raw data file format of ancestry.co.uk. what can she do for this? Any help would be really appreciated thank you all.

Oliver

Maybe she can make an autosomal transfer to FTDNA and then upload FTDNA raw data in order to know her mtdna haplogroup ?

-------

The calculator in the first post gives me H2a2a1. Interesting. Let's see if it is the same in the mtdna test I've ordered from FTDNA.

mershechu
12-20-2017, 02:49 PM
Do you think it could work efficiently with FTDNA raw data ?
I uploaded my "Build 37 Raw Data Concatenated" and I got my mtdna predicted..it way be wrong though ...

Geborgenheit
12-20-2017, 04:08 PM
Do you think it could work efficiently with FTDNA raw data ?


I'll check when I'll have my official mtdna data. :)

tremaineharris
01-11-2018, 07:54 PM
Can you test positive for snps not in your haplogroup for example the calculator says: this suggested classification does not account for the following positive SNPs:

Does that mean you have that dna from that group but not enough to be classified with it?

tremaineharris
01-11-2018, 07:59 PM
The Morley y-dna calculator says that I tested positive for snps markers for India, Central Asia,and Iran , but I am not apart of those haplogroups. Does this mean that I have genetic material from these groups?

Researcher212
01-16-2018, 01:57 AM
I found my Y and X haplogroup through Wegene from my raw ancestry files, but I think you have to be tested with them recently. The reason I say this is another family member of mine tested with Ancestry years ago and Wegene doesn't show their haplogroups. Also, the Morley tool was very close to what the gene showed. Can anyone help me though find a way to confirm genes' results of my X haplogroup with any free online tool that accepts the newest ancestry raw data? Furthermore, can anyone here tell me what they think of the Morely data if there are any false positives and what is more accurate ISogg or Experimental tree?

Kurki
01-25-2018, 01:40 AM
2098620986
Has anyone tried HaploGrep? If I figured it out, I don't have a match (mtDNA) but was close to W1c and K2a2a1. W1c a little more common Scandinavian and I got W3a in WeGene, but that was AncestryDNA (and W3a not common in Scandinavia, but does jive with all the East Euro admixtures I get on GEDmatch). Anyway, I'm maybe a "W" but waiting for FTDNA to try another shot. This read as they phylotree was missing mutations, or something like this. I looked at the test data (reference data). If I actually am W3, I don't think it's on this phylotree.. ?? (I don't really understand phylotrees yet, sorry). And/or, I have a poor sample or just missing data here. No "green" or clear match. K2a2a1 read as 100% quality but missing mutations or something in the tree... so I might be a different subclade here. And same with the W.

Not much else I can do with AncestryDNA? I had to feed it to HaploGrep and the export a FASTA from it, then feed back the FASTA it created. Or I don't remember what I did... probably put the Ancestry data into text first too. Couldn't just upload the file and get anything. Ugh.

Geborgenheit
01-29-2018, 04:59 PM
I've tried, but I don't understand how it works either.

Helves
03-27-2018, 04:05 PM
23andme told me I'm G-342 and using Morley's test I get G-CTS11562, and Wegene said G1a21. Are there any free ways to find my subclade?

ArmandoR1b
03-27-2018, 10:37 PM
23andme told me I'm G-342 and using Morley's test I get G-CTS11562, and Wegene said G1a21. Are there any free ways to find my subclade?

I think that you meant G-M342 which is G1. G-CTS11562 is G1a and probably wasn't in the 2013 tree that Morley used. G1a21 doesn't exist so that looks like a typo.

If you upload your raw Y-DNA to a sharing site and PM me a link to it I can run it through a spreadsheet that determines which Y-DNA positions are positive and which are negative and what the subclade is and what the 2017 longhand name is and I can compare the results with the files from other users to see if there is a false positive or not and I can provide the id that 23andme uses then I can send back the results to you with all of that info.

Kaspias
01-11-2019, 08:30 AM
I think that you meant G-M342 which is G1. G-CTS11562 is G1a and probably wasn't in the 2013 tree that Morley used. G1a21 doesn't exist so that looks like a typo.

If you upload your raw Y-DNA to a sharing site and PM me a link to it I can run it through a spreadsheet that determines which Y-DNA positions are positive and which are negative and what the subclade is and what the 2017 longhand name is and I can compare the results with the files from other users to see if there is a false positive or not and I can provide the id that 23andme uses then I can send back the results to you with all of that info.

I'm not very good at haplogroups and if you don't mind i have some questions. At first i want to share my prediction;

https://i.ibb.co/cJC2B6S/a1.png
https://i.ibb.co/bm221jY/a2.png

MyHeritage raw data.

1. Is it certain i'm Q-L54? I mean is there a chance for R1 or other subclades of Q?
2. If i want to go for further tests, which one would you recommend to me? I thought FTDNA Y12 -> Q SNP Pack or directly YSEQ SNP pack. Do i need Y-37, Y-67 etc?
3. I don't have enough information on Q-L54 except yfull chart and ISOGG list. Do you know any information as addition to them?

Thank you so much!

ArmandoR1b
01-11-2019, 10:34 PM
I'm not very good at haplogroups and if you don't mind i have some questions. At first i want to share my prediction;

MyHeritage raw data.

1. Is it certain i'm Q-L54? I mean is there a chance for R1 or other subclades of Q?
2. If i want to go for further tests, which one would you recommend to me? I thought FTDNA Y12 -> Q SNP Pack or directly YSEQ SNP pack. Do i need Y-37, Y-67 etc?
3. I don't have enough information on Q-L54 except yfull chart and ISOGG list. Do you know any information as addition to them?

Thank you so much!

1. You definitely are in haplogroup Q. You have false positives in haplogroup R. All of the red negatives is the evidence that the haplogroup R positive SNPs are false positives.
2. It depends on how much you want to spend. Big Y 500 is the best since it tests so many positions in the Y chromosome and creates the possibility of discovering new subclades once other people match your previously unknown mutations. That can't be done with tests such as SNP packs which test only test a limited number of known subclades. It also includes testing of 500 STRs. If that is too expensive or you want to wait for a sale then get the Q Superclade Panel (https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=46027) If you get Y-67 get it from FTDNA because FTDNA has a large database creating the possibility of finding matches. A lot of matches at Y-37 can be false matches so Y-67 is the minimum that should be purchased.
3. Not really. What you have is the best available other than FTDNA haplogroup projects but you really need to find out which subclade of Q you are in to get the most pertinent information available.

Kaspias
01-12-2019, 07:21 AM
1. You definitely are in haplogroup Q. You have false positives in haplogroup R. All of the red negatives is the evidence that the haplogroup R positive SNPs are false positives.
2. It depends on how much you want to spend. Big Y 500 is the best since it tests so many positions in the Y chromosome and creates the possibility of discovering new subclades once other people match your previously unknown mutations. That can't be done with tests such as SNP packs which test only test a limited number of known subclades. It also includes testing of 500 STRs. If that is too expensive or you want to wait for a sale then get the Q Superclade Panel (https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=46027) If you get Y-67 get it from FTDNA because FTDNA has a large database creating the possibility of finding matches. A lot of matches at Y-37 can be false matches so Y-67 is the minimum that should be purchased.
3. Not really. What you have is the best available other than FTDNA haplogroup projects but you really need to find out which subclade of Q you are in to get the most pertinent information available.

Thank you for all of information. I have one last question.

Morley shows i'm Q-L54 and red for M3(Amerindian) branch. In this sense there are 2 possibly branch. L804 Scandinavian and L330 Hunnic. Question is simply is it certain i'm either l330 or l804? Is there any possibility to be another subclade of Q different than L54 although morley shows i'm L54?

linthos
06-18-2019, 02:41 PM
I was searching for a good place to ask this, here seems to be a good fit. While I am definitely interested in having a more thorough Y test being done, so far I only have had an AncestryDNA test. I did run the results through Morley's tool and got what I thought were good results when using the standard, albeit old, ISOGG tree (not the experimental).

Based on the below results, does this seem pretty accurate as I thought they may be? And if so, would it be worth doing a Y-67 test or equivalent, or would more specific SNP packs be better at this point? I am guessing a Y-67 at least first may be best, but I am still new to all this, and there is a lot of info out there.

31007

aaronbee2010
06-18-2019, 03:08 PM
I was searching for a good place to ask this, here seems to be a good fit. While I am definitely interested in having a more thorough Y test being done, so far I only have had an AncestryDNA test. I did run the results through Morley's tool and got what I thought were good results when using the standard, albeit old, ISOGG tree (not the experimental).

Based on the below results, does this seem pretty accurate as I thought they may be? And if so, would it be worth doing a Y-67 test or equivalent, or would more specific SNP packs be better at this point? I am guessing a Y-67 at least first may be best, but I am still new to all this, and there is a lot of info out there.

31007

I would consider that accurate, considering that as well as M167, you've also shown up positive for all but one SNP above M167. It's also important to note that these tests occasionally give false negatives and false positives. 23andMe have me positive for the following SNPs under R1b:

CTS7904/PF6471, CTS9018/PF6484, CTS623/PF6419, CTS1738/FGC55/PF6449, CTS7400/FGC33/PF6469, CTS7659/FGC50/PF6470, CTS10349/FGC42/PF6492, CTS11468/PF6520, S27458, S47, L1403.

I actually come under R2, so these results are obviously false positives.

I would say this test is pretty accurate in your case considering that AncestryDNA aren't known for detailed Y-SNP results.

Y-67 (as well as other STR tests) are mainly useful for finding your closest Y-DNA matches, in the same way that DNA testing sites like AncestryDNA and 23andMe find your closest autosomal matches. If you're interested in a more detailed subclade result, you can either order an R1b-DF27 panel from YSEQ ($93 including shipping), an R1b-DF27 SNP Pack from FTDNA (this is $31 more expensive at $119, and you would have to order an STR test from FTDNA first, the cheapest is Y-12 for $59 - the total price is $178, or $190.95 if you include shipping) or a Y-DNA sequence test (a lot more expensive, but worth it, considering you get the most detailed result possible, and your results can automatically update as new SNPs are discovered, so your result can become more accurate over time if other people in or near your subclade get a sequence as well). If you decide to do a sequence, then I would just go straight to that, as it effectively tests you for almost every currently existent SNP available, so any panel test you ordered before becomes obsolete, and therefore a waste of money.

MacUalraig
06-18-2019, 03:13 PM
Ancestry has the poorest resolution of any Y-SNP test you can get.

If you want to refine your Y haplogroup only a further Y-SNP test can do this, not a Y-STR test (eg Y-67).

I like the YSEQ SNP panels myself. Others are available.

linthos
06-18-2019, 05:03 PM
Thank you for the replies. I think I am more interested in the Y sequencing now.

And thanks for the info on the potential false positives/negatives, as well as the poor resolution. I understood that the info was limited with AncestryDNA, and more of a byproduct of their testing, but good to know it's the lowest resolution anyway. While in my case I think there was enough that the M167 results are likely true, it would be interesting to have it definitely confirmed and find more info.

ArmandoR1b
06-18-2019, 10:55 PM
Thank you for the replies. I think I am more interested in the Y sequencing now.

And thanks for the info on the potential false positives/negatives, as well as the poor resolution. I understood that the info was limited with AncestryDNA, and more of a byproduct of their testing, but good to know it's the lowest resolution anyway. While in my case I think there was enough that the M167 results are likely true, it would be interesting to have it definitely confirmed and find more info.

I agree that the M167/SRY2627 is very likely accurate because out of the AncestryDNA files that I have seen there hasn't been anyone with a false positive for M167/SRY2627. The specific SNP Panel for M167/SRY2627 at Yseq is the R1b-DF27 Panel at https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=10749 You can click on the tree and download the PDF then search for SRY2627 to find it in there then see the subclades that are tested.

If you want to see the other subclades below SRY2627 that exist see https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z201/ and http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=608 and https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/R;name=R-SRY2627

aaronbee2010
06-19-2019, 07:15 PM
Thank you for the replies. I think I am more interested in the Y sequencing now.

And thanks for the info on the potential false positives/negatives, as well as the poor resolution. I understood that the info was limited with AncestryDNA, and more of a byproduct of their testing, but good to know it's the lowest resolution anyway. While in my case I think there was enough that the M167 results are likely true, it would be interesting to have it definitely confirmed and find more info.

If you do decide to go for sequencing, it may be preferable for you to save up money for it. Do so at a pace that is comfortable for you :)

I recommend the FTDNA Big Y-700. It's not the cheapest service but you benefit from being a part of FTDNA's database (this is exclusive to FTDNA testers). This means you can check for men on FTDNA's database who are the closest to you paternally. This product costs around $511.95 on offer, including shipping. FTDNA do offers throughout the year, so I would urge you to wait until an offer comes. This test comes with free Y-DNA analysis - FTDNA analyse your data and search for your SNP's (known ones, as well as ones that have not yet been discovered), STR's (700 of them, including the 111 STR's, as well as them adding you to their Y-DNA database and adding any newly discovered subclade to their tree.

A cheaper option is FGC's Y Elite 2.1. This test is similar to the Big Y-700 except you're not matched with closest Y-DNA matches (HOWEVER you can compare your Y-STR's to people who are specifically part of a public FTDNA Y-DNA project) and no analysis is done. This test costs $380 including shipping and FGCAG18 discount code. You may or may not be able to save $25 if you can get slow shipping ($10 for slow shipping vs $35 for standard shipping). I've been told this by a FGC representative - you can email their support and ask if they can do this for you. This would drop the price down to $355, however I can't guarantee that you'll have success here, although it should be likely. While no analysis is done, you also apparently get mtDNA results - this is a byproduct of the Y-DNA sequencing also scanning off-target regions such as mtDNA. FTDNA removes mtDNA data from their analysis before giving you your results, so you would need to order a separate mtDNA sequencing service from them. FGC's mtDNA results may miss a few bases though, considering their service isn't intentionally targeted at mtDNA, however many people also get 100% accurate results. The mtDNA results are included, so it's a win-win.

As far as separate analysis goes, you're best off going with YFull. It costs $49 and they analyse your Y-DNA (and mtDNA if you have this) results to find your SNP's, STR's and add you to their ever-growing Y-DNA tree. Even with FTDNA, this is recommended, but it would be compulsory with FGC. The FGC price would be $404 with YFull analysis and slow shipping (or $429 with normal shipping), and the FTDNA offer price would be $560.95 with YFull analysis and shipping.

There are cheaper options as far as sequencing goes, but these are the two best services to go for - I recommend FTDNA's Big Y-700 personally. If the price is a lot for you, I recommend saving up for it as slowly as you wish.

gene.test
06-20-2019, 06:41 PM
Which predictor is the best?

aaronbee2010
06-20-2019, 07:13 PM
Which predictor is the best?

For Y-DNA it depends on whether you've been tested for Y-SNPs or Y-STRs.

Y-SNP: https://ytree.morleydna.com/
Y-STR: http://www.nevgen.org/

For mtDNA: https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/

ArmandoR1b
06-20-2019, 10:06 PM
Which predictor is the best?

The problem with the predictors is that they don't know which SNPs are false positives and which are false negatives in the raw DNA of the different companies and it is immediate obvious to new users which SNPs aren't tested. So the best thing to do is to post the results like linthos did and to mention which DNA testing company the raw DNA source file is from. That way you can be informed of irregularities.

passenger
06-21-2019, 04:08 AM
I uploaded an FTDNA file (based on a MyHeritage kit) to jameslick.com and got H2a2a1 as a "good match" for my mtDNA haplogroup. How reliable do you think that is?

aaronbee2010
06-21-2019, 04:43 AM
I uploaded an FTDNA file (based on a MyHeritage kit) to jameslick.com and got H2a2a1 as a "good match" for my mtDNA haplogroup. How reliable do you think that is?

Was MyHeritage just for Family Finder? I'm guessing mtDNA was purchased from FTDNA? If so, that would be very reliable.

ArmandoR1b
06-21-2019, 07:33 AM
I uploaded an FTDNA file (based on a MyHeritage kit) to jameslick.com and got H2a2a1 as a "good match" for my mtDNA haplogroup. How reliable do you think that is?

MyHeritage does not test mtDNA. It is because of the lack of any mtDNA mutations in the file that https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/ determined that you matched H2a2a1 which is the reference haplogroup based on specimen NC_012920.1 whose haplogroup is H2a2a1. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Reference_Sequence and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/all/?term=NC_012920.1

You should purchase an mtDNA test from FTDNA to get your mtDNA haplogroup. The mtFull Sequence is the only one that tests all mtDNA positions and the only way to find your true mtDNA subclade. Then once you have that result you can then upload the FASTA file to YFull to see if they can determine if you create a new subclade.

I only recently learned that FTDNA changed to a Illumina GSA model so now they are able to provide MTDNA DNA markers from their test which is why the entries exist even though there are no mutations from your MyHeritage test. Those of us that tested with older FTDNA chips don't get the H2a2a1 prediction but instead get a warning that Family Finder data is not supported and doesn't contain mtDNA data.

passenger
06-21-2019, 02:33 PM
MyHeritage does not test mtDNA. It is because of the lack of any mtDNA mutations in the file that https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/ determined that you matched H2a2a1 which is the reference haplogroup based on specimen NC_012920.1 whose haplogroup is H2a2a1. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Reference_Sequence and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/all/?term=NC_012920.1

You should purchase an mtDNA test from FTDNA to get your mtDNA haplogroup. The mtFull Sequence is the only one that tests all mtDNA positions and the only way to find your true mtDNA subclade. Then once you have that result you can then upload the FASTA file to YFull to see if they can determine if you create a new subclade.

I only recently learned that FTDNA changed to a Illumina GSA model so now they are able to provide MTDNA DNA markers from their test which is why the entries exist even though there are no mutations from your MyHeritage test. Those of us that tested with older FTDNA chips don't get the H2a2a1 prediction but instead get a warning that Family Finder data is not supported and doesn't contain mtDNA data.

Thanks for the info! I figured it wouldn't work, but I decided to try it anyway, and was surprised that it gave me any result at all. I was just curious whether it might have any relevance, but I guess not.

aaronbee2010
06-22-2019, 10:29 AM
In that case, disregard my previous post!

acerocl
07-04-2019, 02:50 PM
Good afternoon,

How accurate is jameslink? I have obtained a Perfect Match! for mitocondrial halogroup H2a2a1

Many thanks in advance

ArmandoR1b
07-04-2019, 03:32 PM
Good afternoon,

How accurate is jameslink? I have obtained a Perfect Match! for mitocondrial halogroup H2a2a1

Many thanks in advance
Which company did you test with?

acerocl
07-04-2019, 05:55 PM
Which company did you test with?

MyHeritage

ArmandoR1b
07-04-2019, 06:06 PM
MyHeritage
MyHeritage does not test mtDNA so the result is incorrect. It is because of the lack of any mtDNA mutations in the raw data file, due to you not being tested for mtDNA, that https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/ determined that you matched H2a2a1 which is the reference haplogroup based on specimen NC_012920.1 whose haplogroup is H2a2a1. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Reference_Sequence and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/all/?term=NC_012920.1

If you want to know your mtDNA haplogroup you have to get tested for it. FTDNA and Yseq.net both have mtDNA tests but FTDNA has a large database for matching.

Szigmund
08-13-2019, 01:12 PM
Hello guys!

I am totally newbie for this kind of stuff. At the Morley DNA page I had this:
32388

Does it mean that I am belonging to the I-L41 haplogroup? I don't know anything about this group. According to the LivingDNA I am I-S17250... Can somebody help be to decode this stuff? Thank you!

aaronbee2010
08-13-2019, 11:29 PM
Hello guys!

I am totally newbie for this kind of stuff. At the Morley DNA page I had this:
32388

Does it mean that I am belonging to the I-L41 haplogroup? I don't know anything about this group. According to the LivingDNA I am I-S17250... Can somebody help be to decode this stuff? Thank you!

L41 = I
S17250 = I2a1b2a1a1a

Your MorleyDNA results are based off the ISOGG 2013 tree, but the S17250 mutation wasn't added to the ISOGG tree until 2014.

Kulin
08-13-2019, 11:35 PM
L41 = I
S17250 = I2a1b2a1a1a

Your MorleyDNA results are based off the ISOGG 2013 tree, but the S17250 mutation wasn't added to the ISOGG tree until 2014.

Can MorleyDNA predict predict clades for J-M241 (like L283 or Z2432, or even deeper) based off 23andme raw data?

aaronbee2010
08-14-2019, 12:01 AM
Can MorleyDNA predict predict clades for J-M241 (like L283 or Z2432, or even deeper) based off 23andme raw data?

The MorleyDNA tree's are both based off the ISOGG 2013 tree for haplogroup J: https://isogg.org/tree/2013/ISOGG_HapgrpJ13.html, which has L283 but not Z2432, or subclades thereof. The only subclade downstream of L283 is Z1296, which YFull's tree says is actually not a descendant of L283, curiously enough.

23andMe's current tree appears to be identical to the ISOGG 2013 tree, as far as J2-M241 is concerned. As such, 23andMe v5 does actually test for L283 (I have the ancestral C at this position) but not Z2432 or any of its phylogenetic equivalents on YFull (inc. Z2444).

You can try MorleyDNA if you like, or just browse your 23andMe raw data and search "rs774409727" (this is another name for L283) and see what your genotype is.

Kulin
08-14-2019, 12:08 AM
The MorleyDNA tree's are both based off the ISOGG 2013 tree for haplogroup J: https://isogg.org/tree/2013/ISOGG_HapgrpJ13.html, which has L283 but not Z2432, or subclades thereof. The only subclade downstream of L283 is Z1296, which YFull's tree says is actually not a descendant of L283, curiously enough.

23andMe's current tree appears to be identical to the ISOGG 2013 tree, as far as J2-M241 is concerned. As such, 23andMe v5 does actually test for L283 (I have the ancestral C at this position) but not Z2432 or any of its phylogenetic equivalents on YFull (inc. Z2444).

You can try MorleyDNA if you like, or just browse your 23andMe raw data and search "rs774409727" (this is another name for L283) and see what your genotype is.

This is what I get from my 23andme raw data file:

rs774409727 Y 6932663 --

I'm not sure how to interpret this. I'm guessing this means I'm not a carrier of L283? (which of course makes sense given that its restricted to Europe).

aaronbee2010
08-14-2019, 12:31 AM
This is what I get from my 23andme raw data file:

rs774409727 Y 6932663 --

I'm not sure how to interpret this. I'm guessing this means I'm not a carrier of L283? (which of course makes sense given that its restricted to Europe).

That's a no-call. 23andMe haven't given you a result for some reason.

Szigmund
08-14-2019, 05:59 AM
Thank you, I understand now.
Is there any up-to-date and easy to use predictor to check which S17250 subgroup I belong?

aaronbee2010
08-14-2019, 09:05 PM
Thank you, I understand now.
Is there any up-to-date and easy to use predictor to check which S17250 subgroup I belong?

I don't know of a predictor that works just with a list of positive SNPs. ArmandoR1b has a handy tool but I'm not sure what the required data for inputting into the tool is. You can ask him about this if you like.

What I do is copy the list of positive SNPs into Microsoft Word, use the replace function to do the following:


Replace "/" with " "
Replace "^p" with " "

I then get the "Multi-highlight" extension for Google Chrome, and paste the resulting list into the tool, load the relevant ISOGG tree (I in your case) and switch on the tool, with the highlight button in the top-right of the extension window.

It's not the most efficient or straightforward process, but it works for me :P

You will need to have Microsoft Word (or a word processor that has a replace function, although you might need to replace "^p" with whatever the word processor uses for paragraphs) and Google Chrome.

kyp.snow
08-25-2019, 10:18 AM
Can somebody give me further information on my prediction? Its not very precise in my case...
https://i.imgur.com/R0BXPLD.jpg

aaronbee2010
08-26-2019, 09:59 PM
Can somebody give me further information on my prediction? Its not very precise in my case...

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SF74a3xkvg4/WdDa0l5addI/AAAAAAAAGH0/BM8SEreRWfMF_tpH2pfEpd20-68zOE90gCLcBGAs/s1600/R1a-M417_The_Beast.png

Where is your paternal ancestry from?

kyp.snow
08-26-2019, 10:01 PM
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/a4/08/4ea408954e4a97e60d364e5d4759e6d4.png

Where is your paternal ancestry from?

Southern Azerbaijan/Northwest Iran - turkic tribal affiliation

aaronbee2010
08-26-2019, 11:20 PM
Southern Azerbaijan/Northwest Iran - turkic tribal affiliation

I just noticed in my first comment, I accidentally linked a picture of R1a-Z93 instead of all R1a. While I've fixed the first comment now, it would appear that you do indeed come under R1a-Z93 considering the geography of your Y-DNA.

Your Y-DNA appears to be linked to ancient Iranians, who originated from Central Asian Indo-Iranians who themselves originated from Indo-Europeans who came from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe (South + East Ukraine, Southwest Russia and a little bit of Northwest Kazakhstan, South Moldova, East Romania and North Cyprus), highlighted below in purple:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Ecoregion_PA0814.svg/300px-Ecoregion_PA0814.svg.png

Guessing which subclade of Z93 you come under is difficult though, although Azeris appear to mainly come under R1a-Z2124 from what I've seen on the Azerbaijan FTDNA Project.

What company did you test with? (And if 23andMe, what chip version did you test with?)

kyp.snow
08-27-2019, 07:05 AM
I just noticed in my first comment, I accidentally linked a picture of R1a-Z93 instead of all R1a. While I've fixed the first comment now, it would appear that you do indeed come under R1a-Z93 considering the geography of your Y-DNA.

Your Y-DNA appears to be linked to ancient Iranians, who originated from Central Asian Indo-Iranians who themselves originated from Indo-Europeans who came from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe (East Ukraine, Southwest Russia and a little bit of Northwest Kazakhstan, South Moldova and East Romania), highlighted below in purple:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Ecoregion_PA0814.svg/300px-Ecoregion_PA0814.svg.png

Guessing which subclade of Z93 you come under is difficult though, although Azeris appear to mainly come under R1a-Z2124 from what I've seen on the Azerbaijan FTDNA Project.

What company did you test with? (And if 23andMe, what chip version did you test with?)

I've done the test with Myheritage

aaronbee2010
08-27-2019, 11:29 PM
I've done the test with Myheritage

In that case, M417 appears to be as detailed as it gets, as MyHeritage don't test for many Y-SNPs.

In my case, I didn't get anything more detailed than R(xR1).

If you want further testing, then YSEQ's your best bet if you're not interested in Y-DNA sequencing.

kyp.snow
08-28-2019, 06:47 AM
In that case, M417 appears to be as detailed as it gets, as MyHeritage don't test for many Y-SNPs.

In my case, I didn't get anything more detailed than R(xR1).

If you want further testing, then YSEQ's your best bet if you're not interested in Y-DNA sequencing.

and do you think it's safe to assume that i'm R1a? How accurate is Morley's Predictor?

aaronbee2010
08-28-2019, 02:13 PM
and do you think it's safe to assume that i'm R1a? How accurate is Morley's Predictor?

Morley's Predictor does nothing more than extract SNPs from your data, so the real question is: "Were MyHeritage's SNP calls accurate?"

In this case I would definitely say yes. They don't test for many Y-SNPs compared to 23andMe or LivingDNA, but they multiple positive results under R, R1, R1a and underneath. If you were only tested for one SNP per subclade then it would be different, but the presence of multiple positives in multiple subclades means your result appears to be reliable i.e. you are almost certainly under R1a-M417 and you're also most likely somewhere under R1a-Z93, which was a very prevalent group in ancient Indo-Iranians.

kyp.snow
08-28-2019, 03:00 PM
Morley's Predictor does nothing more than extract SNPs from your data, so the real question is: "Were MyHeritage's SNP calls accurate?"

In this case I would definitely say yes. They don't test for many Y-SNPs compared to 23andMe or LivingDNA, but they multiple positive results under R, R1, R1a and underneath. If you were only tested for one SNP per subclade then it would be different, but the presence of multiple positives in multiple subclades means your result appears to be reliable i.e. you are almost certainly under R1a-M417 and you're also most likely somewhere under R1a-Z93, which was a very prevalent group in ancient Indo-Iranians.

Thank you for your help! Maybe I will buy a real test somwhere in the future.

alejandromb92
03-27-2020, 11:56 AM
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=96587&d=1585305361

This is the only thing i got, from MorleyDNA. All i want to know if the next subclade of the L11.

ThaYamamoto
10-17-2020, 07:12 PM
So guys how accurate are these predictions then? 23andmev5, I've not bothered to upload the Ancestry file yet. Any all all insight appreciated. In apparent descending likelihood:

digital_noise
10-17-2020, 08:50 PM
23 and me is accurate. If you are using 23 and me raw data, this is likely accurate to some degree. It usually gets the correct base subclade, how much more ďrecentĒ depends. I think Iím order to get any sort of mtDNA out of AncestryDNA raw data you need to convert it to 23 and me format. At this point, donít waste your time as you get accurate results with 23 and me.


These are separate files presented yea? I know you are L, but it looks like another is J? And N?

Edit*** sorry, for some reason I thought you were trying to get mtDNA out of these...disregard that part of my comment lol

ArmandoR1b
10-17-2020, 10:10 PM
So guys how accurate are these predictions then? 23andmev5, I've not bothered to upload the Ancestry file yet. Any all all insight appreciated.


MorleyDNA is an old program that uses an old version of ISOGG and because of that it gets a lot wrong. That is why it gets confused with the several false positives and/or recurrent mutations that also exist in other haplogroups such as L88, L198, S108 and M96. You seem to be positive for M22, M95, and M357 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/L-L1307/). Everyone tested by 23andme v5 gets tested for 99.9% of the same Y-DNA SNPs. They are not all included in the MorleyDNA program and they are not all in that version of ISOGG.

What did 23andme give you? What do you get with https://cladefinder.yseq.net/ ?

ThaYamamoto
10-18-2020, 12:20 AM
23 and me is accurate. If you are using 23 and me raw data, this is likely accurate to some degree. It usually gets the correct base subclade, how much more “recent” depends. I think I’m order to get any sort of mtDNA out of AncestryDNA raw data you need to convert it to 23 and me format. At this point, don’t waste your time as you get accurate results with 23 and me.


These are separate files presented yea? I know you are L, but it looks like another is J? And N?

Edit*** sorry, for some reason I thought you were trying to get mtDNA out of these...disregard that part of my comment lol
Haha yes, my bad I didn't specify. I was just curious if 23andme test for the Kalash or Burusho specific clades of L-M357 or the Balochi clade etc..is it strange that haplogroup A [pygmy/nilote?] is the second most likely? False positive I guess?


MorleyDNA is an old program that uses an old version of ISOGG and because of that it gets a lot wrong. That is why it gets confused with the several false positives and/or recurrent mutations that also exist in other haplogroups such as L88, L198, S108 and M96. You seem to be positive for M22, M95, and M357 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/L-L1307/). Everyone tested by 23andme v5 gets tested for 99.9% of the same Y-DNA SNPs. They are not all included in the MorleyDNA program and they are not all in that version of ISOGG.

What did 23andme give you? What do you get with https://cladefinder.yseq.net/ ?

Ahh okay...so I do most likely belong to L-M357 yes? Yeah 23andme determined this originally. I just find it weird how A was the second most likely, is this a false positive?

Cladefinder gives me:

Most specific position on the YFull YTree is L-M2481 - Negative for all known downstream SNPs. (23andme) - this isn't M357 right?

Most specific position on the YFull YTree is L Next best prediction (scored 73 compared to 78) LT (Ancestry)

digital_noise
10-18-2020, 12:57 AM
I mean, if 23 and Me gives you L-M357, that’s likely too old to be a Kalash or Balochi. You’d have to go more recent than L-M357 to sort that out. Off the top of my head, I don’t recall what the TMRCA date is for L-M357 but my guess is it’s old.

thejkhan
10-18-2020, 01:26 AM
So guys how accurate are these predictions then? 23andmev5, I've not bothered to upload the Ancestry file yet. Any all all insight appreciated. In apparent descending likelihood:

https://i.imgur.com/WLhqByT.png
https://i.imgur.com/F8dmEJs.png
https://i.imgur.com/EYwp4CF.png
https://i.imgur.com/gd74URy.png
https://i.imgur.com/VbPV4DL.png

It's a pretty decent tool. For the predicted N and J2 clades, you get negative calls for many of the upstream SNPs.

The only prediction that looks good is L1c. Did a pretty good job, no?

ThaYamamoto
10-18-2020, 01:46 AM
I mean, if 23 and Me gives you L-M357, that’s likely too old to be a Kalash or Balochi. You’d have to go more recent than L-M357 to sort that out. Off the top of my head, I don’t recall what the TMRCA date is for L-M357 but my guess is it’s old.

Ahh okay cool, I'm excited for the big Y now see exactly which individuals I cluster with.


It's a pretty decent tool. For the predicted N and J2 clades, you get negative calls for many of the upstream SNPs.

The only prediction that looks good is L1c. Did a pretty good job, no?

Yep, seems to be.

ArmandoR1b
10-18-2020, 05:23 PM
It's a pretty decent tool. For the predicted N and J2 clades, you get negative calls for many of the upstream SNPs.

The only prediction that looks good is L1c. Did a pretty good job, no?

It's a bad tool specifically because it still provides subclades that aren't possible and novices don't understand that all of the negative calls mean that the green calls are just recurrent or false positives and then that has to be explained.

ArmandoR1b
10-18-2020, 05:26 PM
I mean, if 23 and Me gives you L-M357, that’s likely too old to be a Kalash or Balochi. You’d have to go more recent than L-M357 to sort that out. Off the top of my head, I don’t recall what the TMRCA date is for L-M357 but my guess is it’s old.

The link in my post #96 for M357 is a link to the relevant clade at YFull which is L-L1307 at https://www.yfull.com/tree/L-L1307/ which has a TMRCA of 7700 ybp.

ArmandoR1b
10-18-2020, 05:42 PM
Ahh okay...so I do most likely belong to L-M357 yes? Yeah 23andme determined this originally. I just find it weird how A was the second most likely, is this a false positive?

Yes, you belong to L-M357. 23andme is accurate in with it's assignments although it can ignore downstream positives due to false negatives downstream. It takes a lot of time to explain the intricacies. Yes, A was the second most likely due to false positives or recurrent SNPs. Regardless of which of the two was the reason it should never have shown as a result. That is why I do not like the MorleyDNA predictor. It causes too much confusion with it's erroneous results.



Cladefinder gives me:

Most specific position on the YFull YTree is L-M2481 - Negative for all known downstream SNPs. (23andme) - this isn't M357 right?
L-M2481 is upstream from M357. Everyone that is positive for M357 is also positive for M2481. Not sure why that site didn't catch M357. Will you provide a screenshot of the result? If you know how to create a file of your raw Y-DNA, without autosomal and mtDNA, then you can upload it and I can try and find the cause.

The good thing about his program, unlike MorleyDNA, is that it wasn't fooled by false positives and recurrent SNPs.


Most specific position on the YFull YTree is L Next best prediction (scored 73 compared to 78) LT (Ancestry)
That means that AncestryDNA has even fewer haplogroup L SNPs in it's test. If you know how to look at raw data and work with Excel you can make tables of the Y-DNA position and SNP name with your calls and which calls match the derived call of an SNP. That would also allow you to compare which SNPs are included in each of the tests and which aren't. If you do that then the additional testing at Yseq and FTDNA Big Y would male a lot more sense to you.

ThaYamamoto
10-18-2020, 06:06 PM
Yes, you belong to L-M357. 23andme is accurate in with it's assignments although it can ignore downstream positives due to false negatives downstream. It takes a lot of time to explain the intricacies. Yes, A was the second most likely due to false positives or recurrent SNPs. Regardless of which of the two was the reason it should never have shown as a result. That is why I do not like the MorleyDNA predictor. It causes too much confusion with it's erroneous results.


L-M2481 is upstream from M357. Everyone that is positive for M357 is also positive for M2481. Not sure why that site didn't catch M357. Will you provide a screenshot of the result? If you know how to create a file of your raw Y-DNA, without autosomal and mtDNA, then you can upload it and I can try and find the cause.

The good thing about his program is that it wasn't fooled by false positives and recurrent SNPs.


That means that AncestryDNA has even fewer haplogroup L SNPs in it's test. If you know how to look at raw data and work with Excel you can make tables of the Y-DNA position and SNP name with your calls and which calls match the derived call of an SNP. That would also allow you to compare which SNPs are included in each of the tests and which aren't. If you do that then the additional testing at Yseq and FTDNA Big Y would male a lot more sense to you.

Thanks for the detailed insights much appreciated. I can't fit the entirety of it in the screenshot but it does indeed predict L-M357 as the next most likely:


Most specific position on the YFull YTree is L-M2481 Link to L-M2481 on YFull View heatmap on Y Heatmap View theoretical migration on PhyloGeographer

L-M2481 M2357(?) M2375($) M2431(?) M2462(?) M2480($) M2481($) M2498(?) M2520(?) M2555(?) M2563(?) M2565+ M2605($) M2623($) M2664(?) SK1418/Y5565(?) Y15954($) Y5525/Z20163($) Y5544/SK1417(?) Y5560/Z20168(?) Z20135($) Z20182/Y5562(?) Z20185/Y5563(?) Z20195/Y5566(?)
┣━L-M2533 +1 L423/L1449- M2359(?) M2360($) M2393(?) M2402($) M2429(?) M2458(?) M2459($) M2461(?) M2476(?) M2515(?) M2524($) M2533(?) M2535(?) M2561(?) M2590(?) M2618($) M2662(?) Y32086(?) Y5515/Z20229(?) Y5518/SK1446(?) Y5531/Z20252(?) Y5551/Z20243(?) Z20230(?) Z20233(?)
┗━L-M27 +2 L1319($) L1321($) L430($) M27- M76- S24646(?) Y15614($) Y15772(?) Y17738(?) Y17739(?) Y20687(?) Y20688(?) Z20336(?) Z20337(?) Z20345($) Z20354(?) Z20356(?) Z20357($) Z20358($) Z20359(?) Z20360(?) Z20361/SK1421($) Z20362/SK1419($) Z20363(?) Z20364(?) Z20365(?) Z20367($) Z20368(?) Z20369(?) Z20370(?) Z20371(?) Z20373(?) Z20376(?) Z20379($) Z20380(?) Z20382(?) Z20383($) Z20384($) Z20385(?) Z20388(?) Z20390/F11470(?) Z20392(?) Z20393(?) Z20394(?) Z20397(?) Z20398(?) Z20399(?) Z20400(?) Z20401(?) Z20402(?) Z20404($) Z20405(?) Z20406(?) Z20407(?) Z20410(?) Z20411(?) Z20412($) Z20413($) Z20414($) Z20415(?) Z20416/SK1422(?) Z20417(?) Z20418(?) Z20419(?) Z20422($) Z20424(?) Z20425(?) Z20427(?) Z20428(?) Z20429(?) Z20433(?) Z20434(?) Z20435(?) Z20436(?) Z20437($) Z20438(?) Z20440(?) Z20441(?) Z20442(?) Z20443(?) Z20444(?) Z20445(?) Z20446/SK1420($) Z20448(?) Z20449(?) Z20450(?) Z20451(?) Z20452(?) Z20570(?) Z8044(?) Z8046(?) Z8048($) Z8049($) Z8050(?) P329/P329.1/P329.2(?) SK1423/SK1423.2($)

Negative for all known downstream SNPs

Available Panels
L-M20 Panel Predicted L-M2481 is downstream of the panel root. This panel may be applicable if it tests subclades below L-M2481. Please verify and check with YSEQ customer support.


Next best prediction (scored 79 compared to 79) L-L1307

So I guess it has done a pretty great job. Unfortunately I'm terrible with excel and looking through raw data but I would like to know exactly which L-M357 clade I belong to, i.e. Balochi or Punjabi, South Indian or Qatari etc (my father is a swahili speaker so no idea which clade I will fall in to). I'm assuming the Big Y is the only way to go for this [and then uploading to yfull?].

ArmandoR1b
10-18-2020, 06:38 PM
Thanks for the detailed insights much appreciated. I can't fit the entirety of it in the screenshot but it does indeed predict L-M357 as the next most likely:


Most specific position on the YFull YTree is L-M2481 Link to L-M2481 on YFull View heatmap on Y Heatmap View theoretical migration on PhyloGeographer

L-M2481 M2357(?) M2375($) M2431(?) M2462(?) M2480($) M2481($) M2498(?) M2520(?) M2555(?) M2563(?) M2565+ M2605($) M2623($) M2664(?) SK1418/Y5565(?) Y15954($) Y5525/Z20163($) Y5544/SK1417(?) Y5560/Z20168(?) Z20135($) Z20182/Y5562(?) Z20185/Y5563(?) Z20195/Y5566(?)
┣━L-M2533 +1 L423/L1449- M2359(?) M2360($) M2393(?) M2402($) M2429(?) M2458(?) M2459($) M2461(?) M2476(?) M2515(?) M2524($) M2533(?) M2535(?) M2561(?) M2590(?) M2618($) M2662(?) Y32086(?) Y5515/Z20229(?) Y5518/SK1446(?) Y5531/Z20252(?) Y5551/Z20243(?) Z20230(?) Z20233(?)
┗━L-M27 +2 L1319($) L1321($) L430($) M27- M76- S24646(?) Y15614($) Y15772(?) Y17738(?) Y17739(?) Y20687(?) Y20688(?) Z20336(?) Z20337(?) Z20345($) Z20354(?) Z20356(?) Z20357($) Z20358($) Z20359(?) Z20360(?) Z20361/SK1421($) Z20362/SK1419($) Z20363(?) Z20364(?) Z20365(?) Z20367($) Z20368(?) Z20369(?) Z20370(?) Z20371(?) Z20373(?) Z20376(?) Z20379($) Z20380(?) Z20382(?) Z20383($) Z20384($) Z20385(?) Z20388(?) Z20390/F11470(?) Z20392(?) Z20393(?) Z20394(?) Z20397(?) Z20398(?) Z20399(?) Z20400(?) Z20401(?) Z20402(?) Z20404($) Z20405(?) Z20406(?) Z20407(?) Z20410(?) Z20411(?) Z20412($) Z20413($) Z20414($) Z20415(?) Z20416/SK1422(?) Z20417(?) Z20418(?) Z20419(?) Z20422($) Z20424(?) Z20425(?) Z20427(?) Z20428(?) Z20429(?) Z20433(?) Z20434(?) Z20435(?) Z20436(?) Z20437($) Z20438(?) Z20440(?) Z20441(?) Z20442(?) Z20443(?) Z20444(?) Z20445(?) Z20446/SK1420($) Z20448(?) Z20449(?) Z20450(?) Z20451(?) Z20452(?) Z20570(?) Z8044(?) Z8046(?) Z8048($) Z8049($) Z8050(?) P329/P329.1/P329.2(?) SK1423/SK1423.2($)

Negative for all known downstream SNPs

Available Panels
L-M20 Panel Predicted L-M2481 is downstream of the panel root. This panel may be applicable if it tests subclades below L-M2481. Please verify and check with YSEQ customer support.


Next best prediction (scored 79 compared to 79) L-L1307


So I guess it has done a pretty great job.

Yes it did a pretty good job. However, it missed L-L1307as the most specific, which is the same clade as L-M357, because of L423/L1449-. L423/L1449 is a recurrent SNP and because of that should not be used with an automated predictor. Recurrent SNPs should be manually analyzed. I'll see if the author responds to a message about that.



Unfortunately I'm terrible with excel and looking through raw data but I would like to know exactly which L-M357 clade I belong to, i.e. Balochi or Punjabi, South Indian or Qatari etc (my father is a swahili speaker so no idea which clade I will fall in to). I'm assuming the Big Y is the only way to go for this [and then uploading to yfull?].

Yes, you need Big Y and an upload to YFull to find your current position at FTDNA and YFull. FTDNA has a lot of customers that don't upload to YFull but you will see them in the tree once you get the more advanced Big Y test. YFull has a lot of academic samples such as those from 1000 Genomes and ancient DNA studies that aren't in the tree at FTDNA. So it is best to do both and not just Big Y.

Even if you do find close matches at either the tree will still grow over time and the additional information provided by more matches will allow a more accurate evaluation of your direct paternal ancestry. So you might not want to take results as proof until the tree as a lot of people in it from both the historical and pre-historical period.

ThaYamamoto
10-18-2020, 09:26 PM
Yes it did a pretty good job. However, it missed L-L1307as the most specific, which is the same clade as L-M357, because of L423/L1449-. L423/L1449 is a recurrent SNP and because of that should not be used with an automated predictor. Recurrent SNPs should be manually analyzed. I'll see if the author responds to a message about that.




Yes, you need Big Y and an upload to YFull to find your current position at FTDNA and YFull. FTDNA has a lot of customers that don't upload to YFull but you will see them in the tree once you get the more advanced Big Y test. YFull has a lot of academic samples such as those from 1000 Genomes and ancient DNA studies that aren't in the tree at FTDNA. So it is best to do both and not just Big Y.

Even if you do find close matches at either the tree will still grow over time and the additional information provided by more matches will allow a more accurate evaluation of your direct paternal ancestry. So you might not want to take results as proof until the tree as a lot of people in it from both the historical and pre-historical period.

Wonderful, thank you so much for the help/insights. Looking forward to the next couple of tests.