View Full Version : ZZ19, ZZ20 branch is growing more prominent

06-26-2017, 01:00 PM
Some of Alex's ZZ SNPs have gotten a lot more discussion than this pair, that still seem to march in step. I didn't find a thread with ZZ19 in the title since Oct. 2014, and that's too long. Recently some other high level SNPs added as ZZ19 branches to the Big Tree by Alex Williamson (but, I think, by nobody else yet) have drawn together several good-sized groups, that others have been independently mining -- in some cases, for many years -- within the constraints of surname projects, or those originally associated with STR "clusters." A notable example of the latter would be the "Dwyer-Ryan Cluster," more recently tagged as A641; but that too has acquired layering, both above and below it.

Look at "ZZ19 and subclades" now: http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=743&star=false

I don't know how well this will stand up to the usual scrutiny, refinement -- one hesitates to say "bickering" -- anyway, the slow process of accepting that Alex is actually right about something. This isn't an attempt to dig a new trench line on that particular battleground. However, ZZ12 has gotten to be pretty well established (if not "accepted"); some pretty hidebound researchers can't help noticing that its population, in some analyses, has eclipsed that of the better-known and more-published Z195+ side of the DF27 tree. On Alex's tree, at this writing, the ZZ12 side of the Great Divide is 58% (426/734) of DF27.

And ZZ19 rounds to 37% (156/426) of that fairly clear ZZ12 majority. On Alex's version. As of today. Watch this space.

06-26-2017, 10:23 PM
Almost two years ago, the R1b-M343 and R1b-DF27 SNP Packs classified:

#399633 (ethnically German, geographically Polish) as R-ZZ12_1*

#196199 (ethnically and geographically Polish) as R-ZZ19_1*

Unfortunately, after spending $200 on SNP packs, I doubt the willingness to spend more than twice that on a Big Y.

07-15-2017, 07:58 PM
I'm this profile : here (http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=743&star=true)
it seems Alex Williamson finished his research on my BigY, as it's no more in red but in grey.

So i guess i'm not ZZ19* but just ZZ19, right ?

07-15-2017, 10:24 PM
I'm this profile : here (http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=743&star=true)
it seems Alex Williamson finished his research on my BigY, as it's no more in red but in grey.

So i guess i'm not ZZ19* but just ZZ19, right ?

It appears you are the first tester of your particular branch of ZZ19. When someone tests positive for one or more of your unique SNPs, you will get a SNP branch name. Until then it's a waiting game...unless you have some STR similar candidates you could get to do SNP testing.

07-16-2017, 10:01 AM
So i guess i'm not ZZ19* but just ZZ19, right ?
As far as we yet know, ZZ19* would be exactly what you are (and nobody else is). But that's just because nobody matching you, below ZZ19, has BigY test results, yet. I put you into group F, and tweaked its caption to include the need for a match (since you already have a BigY).

If you want the ZZ19+ (that Alex detected in your BigY data) to be visible, like everyone else's in that group, you could add it to your currently blank MDKA field. That information has to be supplied by the kit owner (not the automated FTDNA system, and not an administrator). On your FTDNA "dashboard" click the red caption below your photo that says "Manage Personal Information." SNP results from another company (YSeq, FGC, YFull, BritainsDNA etc.) could also be noted there. But there is a character limit, no room for an essay.

You may have an STR off-modal, or a pattern of several, shared by other bearers of your unknown "terminal" SNP (below ZZ19). DYS437=14 is one, but not necessarily important by itself. Some people like to look for those, and if you do so, use colorized STR results. Your best candidates will be in groups E and F. Some other untested individuals might be in Ungrouped, or another group beginning with U.