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alhan
07-01-2017, 01:56 PM
I already have a thread and discussed to some extent what I've been trying to do. If you have a time you can have a look

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10266-Ethnic-confirmation-of-Adyghe-origin

I will summarize it anyway. I am from Malatya Turkey. My fathers side is known to have migrated from Caucasia having Adygea (Chercessian) etnicity. They've been residing for last 150 years in a village in Malatya. Their village was somehow isolated, had marriages in between neighbouring villages who are mainly Kurdish.

My mothers side is known to have Turkish ethnicity. They have been residing in a Turkish village near Malatya may be more than 200 years.

From what I've been told. I tested with Family Finder and had y12dna tests. I am still waiting for Y12 DNA test.

I got my Family Finder result and loaded my data up to the GEDMATCH. (kit number T634591)

I've been playing with all calculators since.

The results from the calculators differs so much.

I was expecting to have Caucasian and Turkish dominated results with some Kurdish possibly very little Armenian ethnicity.

What I see get from calculators are Kurdish domination.

I post some of the results from the calculators to the bottom of the post.

Let me interpret a bit and please correct me and have your say on the results.

Caucasian background story is totally off. Instead there might be a migration Azerbaijan or Iran??

Kurdish is a lot more dominated than expected. Those marriages with the neighbouring Kurdish villages are a lot more than anticipated.

And maternal side's Turkish etnicity is almost totaly out of picture (other than Harappa results which Turkish is number one).

There is Uzbek ethnicity out of blue.

Considering family finder is dealing with only probably last 200 or so years, so many surprises in the results in the oracles confuses me.

Should I take the result of the oracles seriously???

Knowing Kurdish forum has some of the most knowledgable participants I am hoping this is the right place to come for help.

Any help for understanding Kurdish domination in oracles will be highly appreciated.

Will ydna12 help to clarify this issues?

Thanks in advance.




__________________________________________________ _____


MDLP K23b Oracle results:

MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.47
2 South_Central_Asian 23.79
3 Near_East 13.46
4 European_Early_Farmers 8.05
5 South_Indian 4.03
6 Tungus-Altaic 3.08
7 Ancestral_Altaic 2.71
8 European_Hunters_Gatherers 1.63
9 North_African 1
10 Amerindian 0.73
11 Australoid 0.46
12 Khoisan 0.3
13 Archaic_Human 0.24
14 African_Pygmy 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurd_North ( ) 3.8
2 Azeri ( ) 5.11
3 Uzbek_Tashkent ( ) 6.66
4 Kurd ( ) 6.74
5 Kurd_East ( ) 6.8
6 Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) 7.79
7 Kurd_South ( ) 8.1
8 Turk_Adana ( ) 8.2
9 Baku_WGA ( ) 8.25
10 Iraqi_Mandean ( ) 9.52
11 Kurd_Jew ( ) 9.55
12 Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) 9.72
13 Turk_Kayseri ( ) 10.01
14 Georgian_Jew ( ) 10.24
15 Turk ( ) 10.68
16 Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) 10.91
17 Iranian_Jew ( ) 11.23
18 Turk_Istanbul ( ) 12.98
19 Azeri_Dagestan ( ) 13.32
20 Stalskoe_Kumyk ( ) 13.6

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.2% Kurd_North ( ) + 14.8% Turk_Kayseri ( ) @ 3.43
2 61.6% Kurd_East ( ) + 38.4% Turk_Kayseri ( ) @ 3.48
3 94.4% Kurd_North ( ) + 5.6% Greek_Islands ( ) @ 3.51
4 93.7% Kurd_North ( ) + 6.3% Greek_Smyrna ( ) @ 3.51
5 94% Kurd_North ( ) + 6% Cypriot ( ) @ 3.54
6 88.1% Kurd_North ( ) + 11.9% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 3.54
7 93.5% Kurd_North ( ) + 6.5% Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) @ 3.54
8 95% Kurd_North ( ) + 5% Greek_Phokaia ( ) @ 3.56
9 95.8% Kurd_North ( ) + 4.2% Roma ( ) @ 3.56
10 96.2% Kurd_North ( ) + 3.8% Roma_BH ( ) @ 3.57
11 88.6% Kurd_North ( ) + 11.4% Turk ( ) @ 3.57
12 92.7% Kurd_North ( ) + 7.3% Azov_Greek ( ) @ 3.58
13 92% Kurd_North ( ) + 8% Iraqi_Jew ( ) @ 3.58
14 90.8% Kurd_North ( ) + 9.2% Turk_Istanbul ( ) @ 3.58
15 95% Kurd_North ( ) + 5% Druze ( ) @ 3.59
16 94.9% Kurd_North ( ) + 5.1% Greek ( ) @ 3.59
17 96.1% Kurd_North ( ) + 3.9% Roma_Bulgarian ( ) @ 3.59
18 95.2% Kurd_North ( ) + 4.8% Greek_Athens ( ) @ 3.59
19 93.9% Kurd_North ( ) + 6.1% Lebanese_Druze ( ) @ 3.6
20 95% Kurd_North ( ) + 5% Greek_Macedonia ( ) @ 3.6

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle

This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 35.91
2 East_Med 32.17
3 South_Asian 8.07
4 West_Med 7.15
5 Eastern_Euro 4.64
6 Red_Sea 4.33
7 North_Sea 4.25
8 Siberian 1.75
9 Amerindian 1.27


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Kurdish @ 6.616695
2 Armenian @ 7.203787
3 Iranian @ 8.464917
4 Azeri @ 8.677050
5 Georgian_Jewish @ 9.010647
6 Turkish @ 11.570363
7 Assyrian @ 11.788917
8 Iranian_Jewish @ 16.130751
9 Kurdish_Jewish @ 16.771549
10 Lebanese_Muslim @ 19.632355
11 Turkmen @ 19.682858
12 Kumyk @ 20.424717
13 Syrian @ 21.118505
14 Georgian @ 23.501369
15 Cyprian @ 23.512962
16 Adygei @ 25.365623
17 Lebanese_Christian @ 25.537668
18 Lezgin @ 25.834324
19 Lebanese_Druze @ 26.452759
20 Balkar @ 26.671869

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +50% Iranian @ 4.549136


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +25% Armenian +25% Makrani @ 3.934836


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++
1 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Makrani @ 3.934836
2 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian_Jewish + Makrani @ 4.026875
3 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Turkmen @ 4.052164
4 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Armenian + Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.157757
5 Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian + Makrani @ 4.235082
6 Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian + Balochi @ 4.299294
7 Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian + Brahui @ 4.335865
8 Armenian + Armenian + Brahui + Georgian_Jewish @ 4.372555
9 Armenian + Armenian + Balochi + Georgian_Jewish @ 4.382887
10 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Brahui @ 4.427527
11 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian_Jewish + Turkmen @ 4.436753
12 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Balochi @ 4.443325
13 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian @ 4.448492
14 Armenian + Georgian_Jewish + Georgian_Jewish + Makrani @ 4.457974
15 Armenian + Armenian + Kurdish + Turkmen @ 4.497885
16 Armenian + Armenian + Balochi + Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.519571
17 Afghan_Tadjik + Armenian + Armenian + Armenian @ 4.543334
18 Afghan_Tadjik + Armenian + Armenian + Georgian_Jewish @ 4.543534
19 Armenian + Armenian + Iranian + Iranian @ 4.549136
20 Armenian + Georgian + Lebanese_Druze + Makrani @ 4.554803

HarappaWorld 4-Ancestors Oracle

This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

23 April 2013 - Oracle reference population percentages revised.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 45.55
2 Baloch 22.51
3 SW-Asian 11.84
4 Mediterranean 8.86
5 NE-Euro 4.07
6 S-Indian 2.76
7 Siberian 1.61
8 NE-Asian 1.21


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 turkish @ 5.263809
2 kurd @ 5.719081
3 armenian @ 5.756201
4 kurd @ 6.334750
5 azeri @ 6.366241
6 uzbekistan-jew @ 7.253758
7 kurd @ 7.643833
8 iranian @ 7.969793
9 turk @ 9.252283
10 turk-kayseri @ 9.308819
11 iranian @ 10.015172
12 assyrian @ 10.130645
13 turk-istanbul @ 10.728952
14 azerbaijan-jew @ 11.495166
15 iraqi-mandaean @ 12.081820
16 armenian @ 12.548513
17 georgia-jew @ 12.631377
18 iranian-jew @ 12.657784
19 armenian @ 13.429405
20 iraqi-arab @ 13.744685

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% armenian +50% kurd @ 2.748527


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% armenian +25% iranian +25% kurd @ 2.476790


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++
1 armenian + iranian + kurd + turkish @ 2.082167
2 armenian + kurd + kurd + turkish @ 2.148470
3 armenian + armenian + iranian + iranian @ 2.199201
4 abhkasian + balochi + cypriot + lebanese-christian @ 2.266841
5 armenian + kurd + kurd + turkish @ 2.274712
6 armenian + armenian + iranian + kurd @ 2.288191
7 armenian + armenian + iranian + iranian @ 2.292078
8 armenian + iranian + iranian + turk-kayseri @ 2.316102
9 armenian + iranian + iranian + turkish @ 2.336399
10 abhkasian + balochi + cypriot + lebanese-druze @ 2.354378
11 armenian + armenian + iranian + kurd @ 2.356463
12 armenian + iranian + kurd + turk-kayseri @ 2.359058
13 brahui + cypriot + georgian + lebanese-christian @ 2.368229
14 balochi + cypriot + georgian + lebanese-christian @ 2.383018
15 armenian + iranian + kurd + turkish @ 2.387303
16 armenian + kurd + kurd + turkish @ 2.412801
17 armenian + armenian + iranian + iranian @ 2.422560
18 brahui + cypriot + georgian + lebanese-druze @ 2.422566
19 azerbaijan-jew + iranian + iranian + turk-kayseri @ 2.428785
20 armenian + iranian + kurd + turkish @ 2.429947

puntDNAL K13 Global 4-Ancestors Oracle

This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

puntDNAL K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 44.42
2 SW_Europe 22.86
3 SW_Asia 15.17
4 NE_Europe 6.64
5 South_Asia 5.06
6 Siberia 2.08
7 Americas 1.10
8 NE_Asia 1.06


Finished reading population data. 191 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Kurdish @ 4.396871
2 Azerbaijan_Azeri @ 4.636232
3 Iranian @ 6.924769
4 Abkhasian @ 7.756614
5 Armenian @ 9.385208
6 Turkish_Kayseri @ 10.140266
7 Assyrian @ 10.233857
8 Dagestan_Azeri @ 10.601663
9 Ossetian @ 11.003922
10 Turkish_Trabzon @ 11.804616
11 Turkish @ 12.745124
12 Adygei @ 14.563757
13 Lebanese_Druze @ 14.684595
14 Lebanese_Muslim @ 14.725217
15 Balkar @ 15.004157
16 Turkish_Aydin @ 15.380859
17 Syrian @ 15.518298
18 Lebanese_Christian @ 17.057301
19 Kumyk @ 17.607735
20 Cypriot @ 19.705118

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Azerbaijan_Azeri +50% Kurdish @ 3.095094


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Iranian +25% Turkish_Kayseri +25% Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.722826


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
1 Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Iranian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.240047
2 Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Kurdish + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.519945
3 Armenian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian @ 2.583594
4 Assyrian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian @ 2.673927
5 Armenian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Kurdish @ 2.703977
6 Iranian + Iranian + Turkish_Kayseri + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.722826
7 Azerbaijan_Azeri + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.737092
8 Afghan_Pashtun + Assyrian + Assyrian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.738656
9 Armenian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Iranian @ 2.741508
10 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Assyrian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.814345
11 Assyrian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Kurdish @ 2.849915
12 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Armenian + Armenian @ 2.853715
13 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Armenian + Assyrian @ 2.886797
14 Armenian + Assyrian + Pathan + Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.954703
15 Assyrian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian + Iranian @ 2.968865
16 Assyrian + Assyrian + Pathan + Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.018746
17 Iranian + Iranian + Ossetian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.037413
18 Abkhasian + Assyrian + Azerbaijan_Azeri + Iranian @ 3.039623
19 Armenian + Armenian + Armenian + Pathan @ 3.059666
20 Afghan_Pashtun + Armenian + Armenian + Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.062940

Eurasia K3 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 W_Eurasian 88.55
2 E_Eurasian 8.99
3 SSA 2.46


Finished reading population data. 129 populations found.
3 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Kurd_C @ 1.571289
2 Iranian @ 2.031673
3 Adygei @ 2.812453
4 Turkish @ 2.935657
5 Mordovian @ 3.099845
6 Finnish @ 3.165372
7 Russian @ 3.309808
8 Chechen @ 3.993150
9 Balkar @ 4.229117
10 Kurd_N @ 4.343228
11 Loschbour @ 6.530620
12 Abkhasian @ 6.744102
13 Georgian_Jew @ 6.786635
14 Estonian @ 7.450294
15 Iranian_Jew @ 7.750716
16 Belarusian @ 8.061707
17 Lebanese @ 8.484200
18 Assyrian @ 8.689904
19 Armenian @ 8.771934
20 Ukrainian @ 8.905043

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Brahui +50% Sardinian @ 0.000000
2 50% Brahui +50% LBK_EN @ 0.278690
3 50% Balochi +50% Sardinian @ 0.445600
4 50% Balochi +50% LBK_EN @ 0.487431
5 50% English +50% Makrani @ 0.562770
6 50% Kurd_C +50% Turkish @ 0.668328
7 50% French +50% Makrani @ 0.704101
8 50% Iranian +50% Kurd_C @ 0.726500
9 50% Bergamo +50% Brahui @ 0.758283
10 50% Czech +50% Makrani @ 0.769501
11 50% Croatian +50% Makrani @ 0.772813
12 50% Brahui +50% French_South @ 0.830465
13 50% Adygei +50% Iranian @ 0.865366
14 50% Balochi +50% Bergamo @ 0.927467
15 50% Makrani +50% Norwegian @ 0.937362
16 50% Albanian +50% Makrani @ 0.944893
17 50% French_South +50% Makrani @ 0.970896
18 50% Balochi +50% French_South @ 1.004740
19 50% Bergamo +50% Makrani @ 1.042924
20 50% Chechen +50% Iranian @ 1.043487


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Abkhasian +25% Iranian +25% Makrani @ 0.000000

Znertu
07-01-2017, 08:08 PM
Perhaps your mother's side are Turkified Kurds? Do you have tribal information or know the specific village they're from? Are they Alevis?

alhan
07-02-2017, 09:44 PM
Perhaps your mother's side are Turkified Kurds? Do you have tribal information or know the specific village they're from? Are they Alevis?

In a place where no Kurdish population is present, Turkification of Kurds is a more likely possibility. However in a place like Malatya where both Turks and Kurds are residing, it doesn't seem likely. Again there is not a word of Kurdish is spoken in the family or village.

My mothers village is known as Banazı (named recently as Konak) near to city center of Malatya and they are Sunni Muslim.

Znertu
07-04-2017, 05:50 PM
In a place where no Kurdish population is present, Turkification of Kurds is a more likely possibility. However in a place like Malatya where both Turks and Kurds are residing, it doesn't seem likely. Again there is not a word of Kurdish is spoken in the family or village.

My mothers village is known as Banazı (named recently as Konak) near to city center of Malatya and they are Sunni Muslim.

Alright, it's just that in the map I'm consulting, I noted a mixed population in Konak and the villages around it. Perhaps it's older admixture, the regions in the belt from Antep to Sivas are very mixed with Turks and Kurds, no doubt there would've been multiethnic tribal confederacies and language shifts happening due to elite dominance and mixed marriages.

Only way to be sure is to test relatives, I guess.

alhan
07-08-2017, 09:08 AM
I agree with your points. By the way I'd like to see the map you are refer to if that's not any inconvenience to you.

dheujjak24
07-08-2017, 08:43 PM
This Circassians remark is used by many. Anatolia has alot of history, some is lost sadly. But our dna tell us another story. I looked at ur thread and enoyed it. Looks similar to mine, but i am not good with dna, just a rookie trying to chit chat.

alhan
07-08-2017, 10:23 PM
This Circassians remark is used by many. Anatolia has alot of history, some is lost sadly. But our dna tell us another story. I looked at ur thread and enoyed it. Looks similar to mine, but i am not good with dna, just a rookie trying to chit chat.

Glad to hear. I have my ydna results now and it only gets more interesting B)
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10266-Ethnic-confirmation-of-Adyghe-origin/page6


My geneology testing survey started to figure out whether or not Adygea etnicity claim on my paternal side was true.

As of now, I had some valuable but a little speculative information on Family Finder. That's why I needed ydna results. Let me summarize my results to save you from reading all the posts in this thread.

Family Finder results, defines me as 90% Middle Eastern & 10% Central Asian.
According to GEDMATCH oracles, ethnic genetic distances are quite speculative and ambiguous with different calculators.

Kurdish, Azeri, Armenian, Iranian, Turkish, Uzbek ethnicities are somehow coming into picture. Matches from autosomal data shows Turkish, Kurdish and Armenian cousins. (Closest one being 3rd cousin)

Family Finder had no confirmation or significant sign of Adygea, Cherkessian or any other Caucasian race.

And naturally I was quite suspicious about the Adygea etnicity claim.

Then, I got my results for Y-DNA12.

I am R-M173.

It is now time to figure out what that means.

My expectation was to see G-M201 if the Adygea etnicity claim was true or have J-M172 as a sign of Turkish&Kurdish etnicity.

Now I have something very different.

R-M173 is defined as R1A by some of the administrators of the projects (Z93??). I've read that R-M173 is an IndoEuropean haplogroup and it needs more tests, Y37 or SNP testing to specify subclade info.

I was answered by the administrator of Adygea project on FTDNA and learned that R1A (R-M173) is the second most dominant haplogroup (first one G-M201) within Adygea people.

It is one of the dominant haplogroups of East Europe. It is also seen in Caucasus, Iran, Krygyzistan.

My guess is that I have some Asian branch of R1A.

But I am not very sure to accept this result as a sign of Adygea origin.

My ydna matches show many Eastern Europeans besides there are some Chechen, Balkar, Turkistan matches with 0 genetic distance. Interestingly no sign of Armenian, Kurdish or Iranian matches?

YDNA and autosomal matches do not really overlaps.

I'd be very glad to hear your thoughts on this. I will try to write as my learning progress.

dheujjak24
07-08-2017, 11:05 PM
Nice! I am also 90 and 10.

Do you contact ur relatives? :)

I also have mix with some turks, armenian, uk, europe, eastern europe, usa, its so mixed.

Something that is funny is that i have been looking them up and they are little like me in personality.

great work! :)

alhan
07-09-2017, 08:42 AM
Nice! I am also 90 and 10.

Do you contact ur relatives? :)

I also have mix with some turks, armenian, uk, europe, eastern europe, usa, its so mixed.

Something that is funny is that i have been looking them up and they are little like me in personality.

great work! :)

I have contacted with some of my autosomal matches. I managed to get response from most of them. Closest one being 3rd cousin, it is not easy to track where this chromosome matches are coming from. I did not get any negative response.

It is very interesting to have this kind of connection with your historical roots.

Speaking of matches, I have not contacted with any of my ydna matches, as I don't really understand what 0 genetic distance means. I have 58 ydna matches. Interestingly none of my autosomal matches overlaps with my ydna matches.

I have a perfect match in ydna12 with a person named Timur from eastern China (Turkistan??). Even that match gives 33% chance of being 4rd cousin.

MfA
07-09-2017, 10:22 AM
You belong to R1a-Z2124. You have the same STR values as a Kurdish gentleman (M09) from Central Anatolia in Gokcumen et al. 2011. Although that town "Merkez" is marked as Kurdish in the study, it's actually a mixed town where Kurds and Circassians are present, though it seems Circassians are assimilated into Kurdish and identify as such. So I think this line might be indeed Circassian and your thus confirms your Circassian suspicions. Needless to say your ancestors are quite mixed with Kurds and your autosomal profile is almost indistinguishable than their Kurdish neighbours in Malatya.

Still we can't be sure, you need to invest more money on testing. And a reminder DNA testing is a collective work and you should be patient as more people are being tested it will be better.

alhan
07-09-2017, 12:11 PM
You belong to R1a-Z2124. You have the same STR values as a Kurdish gentleman (M09) from Central Anatolia in Gokcumen et al. 2011. Although that town "Merkez" is marked as Kurdish in the study, it's actually a mixed town where Kurds and Circassians are present, though it seems Circassians are assimilated into Kurdish and identify as such. So I think this line might be indeed Circassian and your thus confirms your Circassian suspicions. Needless to say your ancestors are quite mixed with Kurds and your autosomal profile is almost indistinguishable than their Kurdish neighbours in Malatya.

Still we can't be sure, you need to invest more money on testing. And a reminder DNA testing is a collective work and you should be patient as more people are being tested it will be better.

Very informative post. Thank you.

I understand that when I look at last couple of centuries it might be considered as mixture of Kurdish, Turkish, Azeri, Armenian even Uzbek etnicities into one unique me B)


But I have some questions regarding your statement on the haplogroup R1a-Z2124. How do you know that I am R1A-Z2124. Is it an educated guess based on my y12dna match with a person who is defined as R1A-Z2124?

Because when I look at Azerbaican Project there are many people with very similar markers defined under R1a, Z93.

I am guessing that's the reason I need more testing to understand which subclade I am under.

For additional testing, do you think it is a better idea to have an SNP testing of R-M173 or have y37 test?

MfA
07-09-2017, 12:33 PM
Very informative post. Thank you.


It's an educated guess, you probably belong to something under Z93, with a little chance to be Z282>YP4858.

You're done with autosomal testing, anything you pay for more is a waste (23andMe, Ancestry, MyHeritage, DNATribes et al.).

What I'd do if I were you; first upgrade to Y37 or even better Y67. Then save money and order Big Y during the sales (New Year, DNA day, Fathers day, Ramadan, Summer) and submit your BAM file to YFull. I wouldn't recommend paying anything on single SNP or SNP packs as they're only temporary solutions and wont answer your all questions. Eventually you'll order BigY and end up paying more at the end. So why not skip the in between and go straight to BigY.

alhan
07-09-2017, 05:09 PM
It's an educated guess, you probably belong to something under Z93, with a little chance to be Z282>YP4858.

You're done with autosomal testing, anything you pay for more is a waste (23andMe, Ancestry, MyHeritage, DNATribes et al.).

What I'd do if I were you; first upgrade to Y37 or even better Y67. Then save money and order Big Y during the sales (New Year, DNA day, Fathers day, Ramadan, Summer) and submit your BAM file to YFull. I wouldn't recommend paying anything on single SNP or SNP packs as they're only temporary solutions and wont answer your all questions. Eventually you'll order BigY and end up paying more at the end. So why not skip the in between and go straight to BigY.

BigY is very expensive. I guess I will spend some time to understand what I have.

By the way I read Gokcumen's paper. Thanks for the reference, it helps me to understand how Cherkessian origin people would turn out to be Kurdish people. Interesting point is that the Merkez köy residents were Cherkesian origined however they've migrated in 13rd century.

That was one of my concerns regarding Adygea etnicity claim. I was having trouble understanding no one knowing a word of Adygea language. I guess several centuries will be enough to forget any kind of language.

dowpa113
07-11-2017, 11:42 PM
I have contacted with some of my autosomal matches. I managed to get response from most of them. Closest one being 3rd cousin, it is not easy to track where this chromosome matches are coming from. I did not get any negative response.

It is very interesting to have this kind of connection with your historical roots.

Speaking of matches, I have not contacted with any of my ydna matches, as I don't really understand what 0 genetic distance means. I have 58 ydna matches. Interestingly none of my autosomal matches overlaps with my ydna matches.

I have a perfect match in ydna12 with a person named Timur from eastern China (Turkistan??). Even that match gives 33% chance of being 4rd cousin.

Sorry, me again. :)

Wow, thats awsome. 3rd here also. The most 3 segaments. I am also related to Dincer Karaca, some turkish guy that works in the media or something. Its so mixed, i am happy. I uploaded on Family Tree, but they took the money but havent gotten me any results on relatives there. Also a few Ashkenazi jews, by their names. Also israelis. Its so mixed.

Yea, he have to be Turkistani, maybe also Kazakh?

How did ur parents migrate from Africa? My mother went straight to today Turkey and father to India and up.

Maybe we share some % , who knows. B)

edit, no we dont share anything. :D

alhan
07-12-2017, 12:38 PM
Sorry, me again. :)

Wow, thats awsome. 3rd here also. The most 3 segaments. I am also related to Dincer Karaca, some turkish guy that works in the media or something. Its so mixed, i am happy. I uploaded on Family Tree, but they took the money but havent gotten me any results on relatives there. Also a few Ashkenazi jews, by their names. Also israelis. Its so mixed.

Yea, he have to be Turkistani, maybe also Kazakh?

How did ur parents migrate from Africa? My mother went straight to today Turkey and father to India and up.

Maybe we share some % , who knows. B)

edit, no we dont share anything. :D

Sorry, I did not get what you're trying to say??

dowpa113
07-12-2017, 01:35 PM
Sorry, I did not get what you're trying to say??

Sorry, its dheujjak24 . Forgot the password on the other one, admin was kind enough to let me use this. I will be using this. I look to match our dna, but we are not family. Thanks to you i did the same, so here is my results. :)

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11276-My-Gedmatch-results

alhan
07-13-2017, 02:08 PM
Sorry, its dheujjak24 . Forgot the password on the other one, admin was kind enough to let me use this. I will be using this. I look to match our dna, but we are not family. Thanks to you i did the same, so here is my results. :)

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11276-My-Gedmatch-results

Now, it make sense.

I've seen your results. Our results looks very similar. I will try to
comment on your post.

dowpa113
07-13-2017, 08:52 PM
Now, it make sense.

I've seen your results. Our results looks very similar. I will try to
comment on your post.

Yes, it sure does. Thanks and update this thread. :)

dowpa113
07-15-2017, 07:51 PM
Hey, do you have charts also? And whats your parents haplogroup? :)

Keeping this thread active, its interesting. :)

Regards

dowpa113
07-15-2017, 08:16 PM
Have you seen this?

Kurdish autosomal DNA based on Dodecad K12b

http://kurdishdna.blogspot.se/2012/06/kurdish-autosomal-dna-based-on-dodecad.html

alhan
07-18-2017, 10:21 AM
Have you seen this?

Kurdish autosomal DNA based on Dodecad K12b

http://kurdishdna.blogspot.se/2012/06/kurdish-autosomal-dna-based-on-dodecad.html
Here are my results;
17602

I have checked the Reference values from the spreadsheet.

It seems like my Gedrosia component percentage is lower around 6-9% from the Kurd reference.
On the other hand my Atlantic_Med is being more than 10%, closer to Turkish average (which is around 13%)

I guess it's understandable for a mixed ethnicity.


Population
Gedrosia 22.67
Siberian 1.86
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 10.45
North_European 4.93
South_Asian 3.23
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 13.03
East_Asian 1.16
Caucasus 42.41
Sub_Saharan 0.25

And for the oracles, it's interestingly putting "Uzbekistan Jew" into the picture. Where the heck did that come from??:D

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 7.29
2 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 7.31
3 Iranian (Dodecad) 7.61
4 Kurd (Dodecad) 7.64
5 Turks (Behar) 9.26
6 Iranians (Behar) 10.31
7 Turkish (Dodecad) 11.22
8 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 11.57
9 Assyrian (Dodecad) 12.28
10 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 12.54
11 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 13.21
12 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 13.36
13 Armenian (Dodecad) 13.77
14 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 14.58
15 Lebanese (Behar) 16.14
16 Armenians (Behar) 17.32
17 Druze (HGDP) 18.06
18 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 18.18
19 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 18.38
20 Syrians (Behar) 18.56

alhan
07-18-2017, 11:48 AM
I have worked on the Oracles myself according to the Spreadsheet provided for Dodecad K12b.

First of all, I've excluded some of the populations who are relevant.

I simply calculated the deviation from the average of the population references under different components. Which you can see from the attachments.

Here are the results of deviation and my own oracle results:D

Population Gedrosia Siberian Northwest_African Southeast_Asian Atlantic_Med North_European South_Asian East_African Southwest_Asian East_Asian Caucasus Sub_Saharan Genetic Distance
alhan 22,67 1,86 10,45 4,93 3,23 13,03 1,16 42,41 0,25

Armenian 16,82 0,00 0,00 0,00 10,31 3,00 0,00 0,00 14,01 0,00 55,86 0,00

5,85 1,86 0,00 0,00 0,14 1,93 3,23 0,00 0,98 1,16 13,45 0,25 28,85
Azerbaijan_Jews 18,70 0,30 0,40 0,20 9,10 0,80 0,60 0,00 17,80 0,00 52,10 0,00

3,97 1,56 0,40 0,20 1,35 4,13 2,63 0,00 4,77 1,16 9,69 0,25 30,11
Georgia_Jews 19,70 0,00 0,70 0,40 7,41 3,60 0,00 0,00 18,82 0,00 52,15 0,00

2,97 1,86 0,70 0,40 3,04 1,33 3,23 0,00 5,79 1,16 9,74 0,25 30,47
Iranians 18,18 1,00 0,90 0,30 5,90 4,20 4,20 0,90 14,20 0,30 36,70 0,50

4,49 0,86 0,90 0,30 4,55 0,73 0,97 0,90 1,17 0,86 5,71 0,25 21,69
Kurds 19,18 0,60 0,00 0,60 6,30 6,70 0,80 0,10 14,30 0,20 42,20 0,00

3,49 1,26 0,00 0,60 4,15 1,77 2,43 0,10 1,27 0,96 0,21 0,25 16,49
Turks 21,70 3,60 0,40 0,00 10,49 8,99 0,90 0,00 10,79 3,10 46,25 0,00

0,97 1,74 0,40 0,00 0,04 4,06 2,33 0,00 2,24 1,94 3,84 0,25 17,81
Uzbekistan_Jews 20,18 0,60 0,90 0,60 7,70 4,40 1,30 0,30 18,50 0,00 45,40 0,00

2,49 1,26 0,90 0,60 2,75 0,53 1,93 0,30 5,47 1,16 2,99 0,25 20,63

17603

And my oracles;
Population Distance
Kurds 16,49
Turks 17,81
Uzbekistan Jews 20,63
Iranians 21,69
Armenian 28,85
Azerbaijan Jews 30,11
Georgia Jews 30,47

Obviously it differs from the original one.

The question is why??

alhan
07-18-2017, 12:45 PM
And my oracles;
Population Distance
Kurds 16,49
Turks 17,81
Uzbekistan Jews 20,63
Iranians 21,69
Armenian 28,85
Azerbaijan Jews 30,11
Georgia Jews 30,47

Obviously it differs from the original one.

The question is why??


And another point I would like to make is about JEW remark. It sounds strange because I am not aware of any Uzbek Jew or Azeri Jew minority that would be considered as a significant population. However, it is used as sole reference for Azerbaijan.

JerryS.
07-18-2017, 01:06 PM
you have it easy my friend, I consider you lucky.

mine comes from England, German and Italy and each one of those seems to be a mix as well. The English seems to be mixed with Scottish, the German with Dutch, and the Italian with Greek and or Balkan states. it makes for a confusing GEDmatch score sheet for me....

alhan
07-19-2017, 06:13 AM
you have it easy my friend, I consider you lucky.

mine comes from England, German and Italy and each one of those seems to be a mix as well. The English seems to be mixed with Scottish, the German with Dutch, and the Italian with Greek and or Balkan states. it makes for a confusing GEDmatch score sheet for me....

Yes my friend, you do have a point.

However, don't you forget that our public records do not allow us to go deeper in any way.
Everybody named, Hasan, Huseyin, Mehmet, Osman without surnames:beerchug:

And the funny thing is the "oracles". I don't know if my ancestry as complicated as the results.

dowpa113
07-20-2017, 04:33 PM
Yes my friend, you do have a point.

However, don't you forget that our public records do not allow us to go deeper in any way.
Everybody named, Hasan, Huseyin, Mehmet, Osman without surnames:beerchug:

And the funny thing is the "oracles". I don't know if my ancestry as complicated as the results.

Great work alhan! :)

Looks like the jews from that area spoke persian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukharan_Jews

Whats your stat at Ashkenazi jew?

dowpa113
07-20-2017, 05:08 PM
you have it easy my friend, I consider you lucky.

mine comes from England, German and Italy and each one of those seems to be a mix as well. The English seems to be mixed with Scottish, the German with Dutch, and the Italian with Greek and or Balkan states. it makes for a confusing GEDmatch score sheet for me....

You call that mixed, watch out this. A girls, she is good looking btw. :)

Did not mean to offend you btw. :P

https://us.v-cdn.net/6024333/uploads/editor/7c/4w645bs0rqoj.png

JerryS.
07-20-2017, 05:12 PM
holy Moly!

dowpa113
07-20-2017, 05:19 PM
holy Moly!

How much ashkenazi do you have? But ur mixing is interesting, you guys from Europe get a proper stat, but we from Asia minor get Turkey/Armenia. I am probl a accient warrior from Hittite time. I have to be. :amen:

JerryS.
07-20-2017, 05:35 PM
How much ashkenazi do you have? But ur mixing is interesting, you guys from Europe get a proper stat, but we from Asia minor get Turkey/Armenia. I am probl a accient warrior from Hittite time. I have to be. :amen:

that depends upon the calculator used. with some two population samples its 90% English and ~10% Ashkenazi.... while others its completely absent.

on the Eurogenes pie chart Jtest its 4.44%

dowpa113
07-20-2017, 05:47 PM
that depends upon the calculator used. with some two population samples its ~10% while others its completely absent.

Its pretty awsome, do you have a thread? Create one if you like. I assume that ur a american? For example i have a relative who's from US, a old man that has a long family history from illinois since 1842 or even before, he doesnt have any middleastern or ashkenazi jewish in him. But we share 21% in 1 segament. Thats alot i would say. I am kurdish by the way. Makes me wanna meet them.

alhan
07-20-2017, 08:11 PM
Whats your stat at Ashkenazi jew?

None;)

alhan
07-20-2017, 08:17 PM
Its pretty awsome, do you have a thread? Create one if you like. I assume that ur a american? For example i have a relative who's from US, a old man that has a long family history from illinois since 1842 or even before, he doesnt have any middleastern or ashkenazi jewish in him. But we share 21% in 1 segament. Thats alot i would say. I am kurdish by the way. Makes me wanna meet them.

I did have an Armenian family at fourth cousin level. I had a long match (more than 20 cm I remember).

I wrote them, and had some nice correspondence with them. However we were not able to identify our ancestor who contributed our gene pool with the same long block on our first chromosome..

dowpa113
07-20-2017, 08:24 PM
None;)

wow :)

dowpa113
07-20-2017, 08:29 PM
I did have an Armenian family at fourth cousin level. I had a long match (more than 20 cm I remember).

I wrote them, and had some nice correspondence with them. However we were not able to identify our ancestor who contributed our gene pool with the same long block on our first chromosome..

Thats very nice, will you meet one of your relatives? :)

JerryS.
07-21-2017, 10:09 AM
Its pretty awsome, do you have a thread? Create one if you like. I assume that ur a american? For example i have a relative who's from US, a old man that has a long family history from illinois since 1842 or even before, he doesnt have any middleastern or ashkenazi jewish in him. But we share 21% in 1 segament. Thats alot i would say. I am kurdish by the way. Makes me wanna meet them.


I played with the various GEDmatach tools to see if I had an Kurdish. Take with a grain of salt these results. I have no known ancestors at all from these listed countries except for Germany, of which I am about 25%. I do not know how they come up with these numbers, they omit my English and Italian genes for some reason.


MDLP World Oracle results:

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96% Austrian + 4% Kalash @ 0.91
2 95.1% German_V + 4.9% Parsi @ 1.02
3 95.2% Austrian + 4.8% Pashtun @ 1.04
4 94.5% Austrian + 5.5% Tadjik @ 1.07
5 95.9% Austrian + 4.1% Brahui @ 1.08
6 95.9% Austrian + 4.1% Balochi @ 1.12
7 95.4% German_V + 4.6% Makrani @ 1.13
8 95.5% Austrian + 4.5% Pathan @ 1.14
9 95.6% German_V + 4.4% Brahui @ 1.15
10 91.4% CEU_V + 8.6% Kurd @ 1.16
11 95.5% German_V + 4.5% Balochi @ 1.19
12 95.9% Austrian + 4.1% Makrani @ 1.19
13 94.8% German_V + 5.2% Iranian @ 1.21
14 91% CEU_V + 9% Azeri @ 1.23
15 94.7% German_V + 5.3% Kurd @ 1.27
16 95.7% Austrian + 4.3% Burusho @ 1.28
17 96% Austrian + 4% Sindhi @ 1.29
18 94.4% German_V + 5.6% Azeri @ 1.3
19 94.9% Austrian + 5.1% Avar @ 1.31
20 67.1% Norwegian_V + 32.9% Gagauz @ 1.32

alhan
07-21-2017, 11:01 AM
Thats very nice, will you meet one of your relatives? :)

I saw a armenian who was looking the same, middleeast is difficult unlike christian world. The church kept everything dated, it was more organized then islamic community.

I am writing to a lady who is probably 4th generation out of Anatolia. They live in US.
It is really not easy to catch who was our connection.

You are right, church records are solid.

Ottoman era had a lot of records, but it is not easy to access, understand and collect the relevant data because of bureocracy and language barrier.

By the way dowpa113 where are you exactly from?

dowpa113
07-21-2017, 01:01 PM
I played with the various GEDmatach tools to see if I had an Kurdish. Take with a grain of salt these results. I have no known ancestors at all from these listed countries except for Germany, of which I am about 25%. I do not know how they come up with these numbers, they omit my English and Italian genes for some reason.


MDLP World Oracle results:

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96% Austrian + 4% Kalash @ 0.91
2 95.1% German_V + 4.9% Parsi @ 1.02
3 95.2% Austrian + 4.8% Pashtun @ 1.04
4 94.5% Austrian + 5.5% Tadjik @ 1.07
5 95.9% Austrian + 4.1% Brahui @ 1.08
6 95.9% Austrian + 4.1% Balochi @ 1.12
7 95.4% German_V + 4.6% Makrani @ 1.13
8 95.5% Austrian + 4.5% Pathan @ 1.14
9 95.6% German_V + 4.4% Brahui @ 1.15
10 91.4% CEU_V + 8.6% Kurd @ 1.16
11 95.5% German_V + 4.5% Balochi @ 1.19
12 95.9% Austrian + 4.1% Makrani @ 1.19
13 94.8% German_V + 5.2% Iranian @ 1.21
14 91% CEU_V + 9% Azeri @ 1.23
15 94.7% German_V + 5.3% Kurd @ 1.27
16 95.7% Austrian + 4.3% Burusho @ 1.28
17 96% Austrian + 4% Sindhi @ 1.29
18 94.4% German_V + 5.6% Azeri @ 1.3
19 94.9% Austrian + 5.1% Avar @ 1.31
20 67.1% Norwegian_V + 32.9% Gagauz @ 1.32

Need to look into this. :)

dowpa113
07-21-2017, 01:30 PM
I am writing to a lady who is probably 4th generation out of Anatolia. They live in US.
It is really not easy to catch who was our connection.

You are right, church records are solid.

Ottoman era had a lot of records, but it is not easy to access, understand and collect the relevant data because of bureocracy and language barrier.



Yes they do :)

JerryS.
07-21-2017, 02:55 PM
It has to be "we all came from africa" right? some trace here and there. Some left for europe and they had some from asia/mid east.

that would be my guess, though the 32.9% Gagauz is really something to ponder isn't it?

alhan
07-21-2017, 04:49 PM
that would be my guess, though the 32.9% Gagauz is really something to ponder isn't it?

If I had your kind of complex combination of genes, I would just ignore Gagavuz possibility.

JerryS.
07-21-2017, 05:00 PM
If I had your kind of complex combination of genes, I would just ignore Gagavuz possibility.

why so? almost 1/3 of my ethnicity according to that calculator comes from that region. I don't think its accurate at all but how did they get that number (%) and that region?

dowpa113
07-21-2017, 06:26 PM
why so? almost 1/3 of my ethnicity according to that calculator comes from that region. I don't think its accurate at all but how did they get that number (%) and that region?

Well, why not. Here you got some info.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/anthroworld/topic/11476960/1/

The Gagauzes, although speaking a Turkic language, belong genetically to the Balkan populations and the Gagauz language represents a case of language replacement. Gagauz belong to Y-DNA haplogroups I2a (23.6%), R1a (19.1%), G (13.5%), R1b (12.4%), E1b1b1a1 (11.1%). Haplogroups J2 (5.6%) and Haplogroup N (2.2%) are represented among Gagauzes at a usual frequency for many European and Balkan peoples. Finally, the phylogenetic analysis of Y-DNA situates Gagauzes most proximal to Macedonians, Serbs and other Balkan populations, resulting in a high genetic distance from the Turkish people and other Turkic peoples.[9] According to a more detailed autosomal analysis of thousands of SNPs, not just of the sex chromosome, Gagauzes are most proximal to Macedonians, followed by Greek Macedonians apart from Thessaloniki, and others such as Bulgarians, Romanians and Montenegrins.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagauz_people

alhan
07-22-2017, 06:20 PM
why so? almost 1/3 of my ethnicity according to that calculator comes from that region. I don't think its accurate at all but how did they get that number (%) and that region?

Just like you said. I don't think it's accurate. If you go after each and every calculators result you will be totaly confused. I don't think Gagavuz is relevant anyway considering your statements of etnicities.

JerryS.
07-23-2017, 12:59 PM
Well, why not. Here you got some info.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/anthroworld/topic/11476960/1/

The Gagauzes, although speaking a Turkic language, belong genetically to the Balkan populations and the Gagauz language represents a case of language replacement. Gagauz belong to Y-DNA haplogroups I2a (23.6%), R1a (19.1%), G (13.5%), R1b (12.4%), E1b1b1a1 (11.1%). Haplogroups J2 (5.6%) and Haplogroup N (2.2%) are represented among Gagauzes at a usual frequency for many European and Balkan peoples. Finally, the phylogenetic analysis of Y-DNA situates Gagauzes most proximal to Macedonians, Serbs and other Balkan populations, resulting in a high genetic distance from the Turkish people and other Turkic peoples.[9] According to a more detailed autosomal analysis of thousands of SNPs, not just of the sex chromosome, Gagauzes are most proximal to Macedonians, followed by Greek Macedonians apart from Thessaloniki, and others such as Bulgarians, Romanians and Montenegrins.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagauz_people


Just like you said. I don't think it's accurate. If you go after each and every calculators result you will be totaly confused. I don't think Gagavuz is relevant anyway considering your statements of etnicities.

Gagavuz seems to be associated at least in part to the Balkan states. some of my Ethnicity is alleged to have some Balkan traces.... but the question I find here that how did they come up with such a high number for me?

alhan
07-23-2017, 02:26 PM
Gagavuz seems to be associated at least in part to the Balkan states. some of my Ethnicity is alleged to have some Balkan traces.... but the question I find here that how did they come up with such a high number for me?

I will give you one example, that I was given. Let's say one's mother is from France, and father from Turkey. The results of GEDMATCH probably will not offer %50 Turkish & %50 France, instead it might give Italian or may be Greek.

This is probably from statistical approach. I think Gagavuz might be showing up because of similarity between Gagavuz and Balkan&Italian combination or something like that.

alhan
09-29-2017, 01:04 PM
Dear friends, now I'm announcing the result of the grand jury for the final Haplogroup information.

Just kidding, I just got the results of my Big Y test.

I am R-FGC64132.

It turns out that I am not Z93.
I am happy because I was thinking of risking and having a Z93 SNP Pack. Probably that would be a waste of 119$.

On the other hand, I'm a bit disappointed that in some other project R-FGC64133 stated to be formed 3400 ybp. Besides, I cannot judge if my BigY matches are close or not. I am sharing 17 novel variants with just one person from the region and many matches with 12 shared novel variants. Is this close for my branch?

And of course the question is where I belong on the haplotree and if it is still going to be 3400 ybp?

I am a member of R1a group on FTDNA. It seem like I am not placed under any of the existing cluster.

I am a bit puzzled because there is only one other R-FGC64132 and he is in the Levantine cluster.
Having most of my autosomal matches from Dersim area, I was expecting to be positioned there in the Dersim Cluster. Nope.

I am alone waiting in my own cluster.

And yes I will have my raw data and submit it to YFull. Waiting for my BAM file to be produced.

Lupus82
10-01-2017, 12:19 AM
Under what clad?

R1a-Z282?

You have a pretty interesting case. Your family have migrated into Anatolia and intermarried with the Kurds for generations.

Would you post your Eurogenes K36 as well?

alhan
10-01-2017, 03:11 PM
Yes it is under Z282. Not like what I qas expecting Z93. I was eveh thinking purchasing Z93 SNP Pack.

Exact category is something like this;
M420>M459>M198>M417>Z645>Z283>Z282>Y17491>YP4858>R-FGC64133>R-FGC64132

I will post my Eurogenes K36 results when I get on my PC.

Expected TRMCA for FGC64132 is around 2400 ybp.

I am still waiting for the BAM file.

By the way, I am told that I do not belong to Dersim group instead I am closer to Syrian and Lebanese testers.

Lupus82
10-02-2017, 02:26 AM
By the way, I am told that I do not belong to Dersim group instead I am closer to Syrian and Lebanese testers.

Why would you be closer to the Syrian and Lebanese testers? They are not indo-European speakers. R1a is the marker for Indo-European people. Also Z282 is East European. Adyge people are within the proximity of Indo-European homeland. I guess your ancestors are one of those people who actually belong to the Balto-Slavic branch.

alhan
10-02-2017, 06:48 AM
Well, actually may be I should rephrase.

I am closer to one Syrian and two Lebanese tester under R1a group simply because I share more SNPs than anyone else under that category.

I was thinking I could be under Dersim group; however it seems like I am (-) for YP5820. Under YP5820 there are Kurdish and Armenian testers.

I know R1a is classified as IndoEuropean however, as you are probably aware there are number of branches with considerable number of people from Middle East. (and I am not even talking about Z93 which is a probably a solid Asian branch of R1a)

For example when you look at the sequence of M420>M459>M198>M417>Z645>Z283>Z282>Y17491>YP4858>

you have people from Pakistan, Kuwait, Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Italy and even Ukraine.

I've read that this Y17491 branch could very well be another Asian branch which moved along with Z93.

To me this Y17491 branch needs a lot more samples to represent ancestry.

Regarding Adyge people, I have come to know some Adyge and Caucasian people who has serious knowledge of their background. There seems to be no similar sequence to mine. Yes there are serious number of R1a people among Eastern Caucasia but none from my branch.
Thus, for now I do not have any sign of Caucasian ancestry in terms of YDNA data.

On the other hand autosomal data has some signs of a positive anomaly for Caucasian background which is quite usual for anyone in the region.

Let me share my Eurogenes K36 results;
Population
Amerindian 0.53
Arabian 1.34
Armenian 11.38
Central_Euro 2.76
East_Asian 0.46
East_Balkan 4.88
East_Med 17.30
Italian 2.02
Near_Eastern 16.74
North_Caucasian 17.11
South_Central_Asian 16.03
West_Caucasian 9.33
West_Med 0.13

Lupus82
10-02-2017, 11:45 AM
I am not well-versed with the R1a subclades that are present in the Middle Eastern people. I doubt that it is native to the area. It might be present in the Middle East because of Arabic/Ottoman slave trade. As you know, Arabs captured slaves in the Pontic steppes and brought them to the Middle East as slave soldiers.

Your automosal DNA signals that you have Kurdish blood and East European blood (East Balkan and Central European components). You have a lot of South Central Asian component, which is a good indicator for Iranic peoples. In fact, you have much more than I do have. Look at mine:

Amerindian 0.20
Arabian 1.95
Armenian 12.05
East_Balkan 0.10
East_Med 18.26
French 1.85
Italian 7.81
Near_Eastern 16.18
North_Caucasian 16.89
Siberian 0.14
South_Asian 0.13
South_Central_Asian 13.76
Volga-Ural 0.45
West_Caucasian 10.23

alhan
10-02-2017, 01:17 PM
Lupus82, where are you from?

Our results for K36 are very similar. Actually I am not very familiar with K36 if you can share MDLP K23b I'd be more comfortable making comparison.

With the existing data I see no significant distinctive difference between us, except your somehow higher Italian (and your additional French component) and my East Balkan.

And yes I clearly have some serious Kurdish in my gene pool instead of Caucasian one like suggested my paternal ancestors.
However I am not so certain about East European one. Present data is not very clear to me.

I think my branch of R1a could easily be Asian oriented.

But you could rightfully claim where did this East Balkan component come from. The answer is I do not know:))

Lupus82
10-02-2017, 10:54 PM
My roots are from Dersim. Here is my MDLP K23b

Amerindian 0.24
Ancestral_Altaic 4.02
South_Central_Asian 20.97
Arctic -
South_Indian 0.78
Australoid 0.26
Austronesian -
Caucasian 43.65
Archaic_Human 0.20
East_African 1.25
East_Siberian 0.54
European_Early_Farmers 7.80
Khoisan -
Melano_Polynesian 0.61
Archaic_African -
Near_East 11.61
North_African 1.41
Paleo_Siberian 0.16
African_Pygmy 0.38
South_East_Asian -
Subsaharian -
Tungus-Altaic 2.33
European_Hunters_Gatherers 3.79

JerryS.
10-03-2017, 12:33 AM
As unpopular as this sounds. I would not use Eurogenes as the go to calculator if I suspected or knew I had DNA from outside of Europe. The Eurogenes model had a to have a separate calculator to detect Ashkenazi Jew. I can only speculate it was because the various Eurogenes models are considerably slanted to north, west and central Europe, so much so that they would not accurately detect some mid-east or north African traces that would indicate Jewish DNA?

alhan
10-03-2017, 11:36 AM
I agree with JerryS. Eurogenes in my case seems a bit irrelevant.
I prefer MDLP K23b, and I am quite familiar with it.

However if you ask me why MDLP K23b and not MDLP World22. I truely have no clue.
When I look at the Oracles even these two are somehow different. Which one should I take more seriously. The details are below;

MDLP World22
1-Turk,
2-Azeri,
3-Kurd

MDLP K23b
1-Kurd_North
2-Azeri
3-Uzbek_Taskent


MDLP World-22 Oracle results:
# Population Percent
1 West-Asian 44.73
2 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 20.38
3 Near_East 18.37
4 North-East-European 5.43
5 Indian 3.86
6 Indo-Iranian 3.8
7 South-America_Amerind 0.79
8 North-Siberean 0.72
9 East-Siberean 0.69
10 Indo-Tibetan 0.51
11 North-European-Mesolithic 0.23
12 Sub-Saharian 0.2
13 Pygmy 0.19
14 Arctic-Amerind 0.07
15 Mesoamerican 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Turk (derived) 5.83
2 Azeri (derived) 5.87
3 Kurd (derived) 5.92
4 Armenian (derived) 8.67
5 Jew-Uzbekistan (derived) 8.78
6 Iranian (derived) 9.43
7 Jew_Azerbaijan (derived) 9.95
8 Jew_Tat (derived) 9.98
9 Jew_Kurd (derived) 11.17
10 Iraqi (derived) 11.9

MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.47
2 South_Central_Asian 23.79
3 Near_East 13.46
4 European_Early_Farmers 8.05
5 South_Indian 4.03
6 Tungus-Altaic 3.08
7 Ancestral_Altaic 2.71
8 European_Hunters_Gatherers 1.63
9 North_African 1
10 Amerindian 0.73
11 Australoid 0.46
12 Khoisan 0.3
13 Archaic_Human 0.24
14 African_Pygmy 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurd_North ( ) 3.8
2 Azeri ( ) 5.11
3 Uzbek_Tashkent ( ) 6.66
4 Kurd ( ) 6.74
5 Kurd_East ( ) 6.8
6 Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) 7.79
7 Kurd_South ( ) 8.1
8 Turk_Adana ( ) 8.2
9 Baku_WGA ( ) 8.25
10 Iraqi_Mandean ( ) 9.52

alhan
10-03-2017, 11:43 AM
My roots are from Dersim. Here is my MDLP K23b

Amerindian 0.24
Ancestral_Altaic 4.02
South_Central_Asian 20.97
Arctic -
South_Indian 0.78
Australoid 0.26
Austronesian -
Caucasian 43.65
Archaic_Human 0.20
East_African 1.25
East_Siberian 0.54
European_Early_Farmers 7.80
Khoisan -
Melano_Polynesian 0.61
Archaic_African -
Near_East 11.61
North_African 1.41
Paleo_Siberian 0.16
African_Pygmy 0.38
South_East_Asian -
Subsaharian -
Tungus-Altaic 2.33
European_Hunters_Gatherers 3.79

Lupus 82 your results look a bit more Turkic than mine. And most of my mothers known ancestors are Turkish.
Your South_Central Asian is less than mine and European_Hunters_Gatherers is almost 4.

I do have lots of Dersim Autosomal matches. From various tribes I understand. We might even be sharing some of our matches in Gedmatch.

Lupus82
10-03-2017, 12:50 PM
I think part of my Turkic/Altaic genes come from Ancestral North Eurasian admixture. We have Turkish relatives in our extended family, but none is directly among my blood line.

Yes, we might share some ancestors. Most Dersimis have been inbred due to the their Alevi heritage. Most of my top matches are from Dersim area and oddly from Iranian Azerbaijan. I suspect part of our people returned to Iran and Turkified over time.

By the way do you have any information with regard to 23andme and AncestryDNA? Which one is better and accurate?

alhan
10-03-2017, 01:12 PM
I think part of my Turkic/Altaic genes come from Ancestral North Eurasian admixture. We have Turkish relatives in our extended family, but none is directly among my blood line.

Yes, we might share some ancestors. Most Dersimis have been inbred due to the their Alevi heritage. Most of my top matches are from Dersim area and oddly from Iranian Azerbaijan. I suspect part of our people returned to Iran and Turkified over time.

By the way do you have any information with regard to 23andme and AncestryDNA? Which one is better and accurate?

My family is not Alevi, but it seems like we have had some connection with Dersim area. From my correspondence with the people from Dersim, my understanding is that some of the tribes left Malatya (which is my hometown) to reach Dersim.

When I go back to deeper past, It is very likely that my ancestors have left Azerbaican to arrive Anatolia. There are several Alhan villages throughout Turkey, from Iğdır to Dersim, from Malatya to Konya and finally to Kütahya and Emirdağ.

And I've learned that Alhan's of Emirdağ was deported from Karabakh of Azerbaijan.

To me it would have make great sense if we shared the same root with these Alhans.
Mostly because my oracles usually points to Azeri etnicity. Most of the time Iranian etnicity also comes up.

Now, I inclined to think that instead of Caucasian origin Azeri origin would be more likely.

Then again, Kurd North and Azeri is very close to each other. Which one I actually carry or how much of Kurd North and Azeri component is the question mark.

I live in Turkey, and as far as I know only FTDNA ships to Turkey.

Therefore it was my only choice along with their extensive coverage of our area.

But from what I can remember 23andme is more of a choice, because it gives both autosomal results and your haplogroup. I could be totaly wrong though.

alhan
01-15-2018, 12:31 PM
You belong to R1a-Z2124. You have the same STR values as a Kurdish gentleman (M09) from Central Anatolia in Gokcumen et al. 2011. Although that town "Merkez" is marked as Kurdish in the study, it's actually a mixed town where Kurds and Circassians are present, though it seems Circassians are assimilated into Kurdish and identify as such. So I think this line might be indeed Circassian and your thus confirms your Circassian suspicions. Needless to say your ancestors are quite mixed with Kurds and your autosomal profile is almost indistinguishable than their Kurdish neighbours in Malatya.

Still we can't be sure, you need to invest more money on testing. And a reminder DNA testing is a collective work and you should be patient as more people are being tested it will be better.


It's an educated guess, you probably belong to something under Z93, with a little chance to be Z282>YP4858.

You're done with autosomal testing, anything you pay for more is a waste (23andMe, Ancestry, MyHeritage, DNATribes et al.)

What I'd do if I were you; first upgrade to Y37 or even better Y67. Then save money and order Big Y during the sales (New Year, DNA day, Fathers day, Ramadan, Summer) and submit your BAM file to YFull. I wouldn't recommend paying anything on single SNP or SNP packs as they're only temporary solutions and wont answer your all questions. Eventually you'll order BigY and end up paying more at the end. So why not skip the in between and go straight to BigY.

Great insight and advise MfA thank you very much. You were able to make very good educated guesses even when I had just YDNA-12.

After long time passed and lots of money spent,
I now know that I belong to YP4858/FGC64132. (Thanks to quick road from YDNA-12 to BigY)

Besides, I had to get back to Gokcumen's paper, as to the reference of Cherkess origined people being converted to Kurdish.

In your blog you refer one of the samples from Gokcumen's paper as being YP4858 (one who is stated to be from Ankara). I was wondering which sample would that be? Is it M09??
If so; how you were able to classify that sample down to YP4858 with just 17 markers?
(May be the subclade info came from somwhere else???