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lwa714
07-03-2017, 12:48 AM
Does anyone have any info on the paternal haplogroup Q-M378? I tested with 23andme v4 and I got this haplogroup. Should I test with the Y-12 kit? or should I do something else? My father's side is Mexican, but this appears to be a Jewish haplogroup. Also, is anyone out there a Q-M378 member? Could someone also please list some snps for downplaying haplogroups of Q-M378 to see which downstream I belong to? Thanks! I'm also new to this site, but not to genetics.

lgmayka
07-03-2017, 02:29 AM
Does anyone have any info on the paternal haplogroup Q-M378?
Here is YFull's Q-M378 haplotree (https://yfull.com/tree/Q-M378/).

Should I test with the Y-12 kit? or should I do something else?
Your least expensive alternative may be the Q1b-L275 SNP panel offered by Yseq (https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=12046). Q-L275 includes Q-M378.

Táltos
07-06-2017, 10:38 PM
Does anyone have any info on the paternal haplogroup Q-M378? I tested with 23andme v4 and I got this haplogroup. Should I test with the Y-12 kit? or should I do something else? My father's side is Mexican, but this appears to be a Jewish haplogroup. Also, is anyone out there a Q-M378 member? Could someone also please list some snps for downplaying haplogroups of Q-M378 to see which downstream I belong to? Thanks! I'm also new to this site, but not to genetics.

Welcome to Anthrogenica lwa714! If you have not browsed this thread yet; have a look.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5148-Q-Y2200-in-Portugal-and-Spain
Q-Y2200 is downstream o f Q-M378. Good chance you *might* belong to a branch off of Q-Y2200.

I have been very interested in the Q1b of Spain and Portugal. There are also others from Mexico. Have you have joined the Q-M242 Y DNA Project at Family Tree DNA? https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/y-dna-q/about/background

lwa714
07-11-2017, 01:18 AM
Thanks! I'll look it up!

Táltos
07-11-2017, 02:28 PM
Thanks! I'll look it up!

What year can you trace your direct paternal line back to Mexico? It has recently come to my attention that one of the Q1b -Y2200 men had great uncles that immigrated to Mexico.

Laranicole
11-03-2017, 03:08 PM
I just got my Dads DNA results and he is part of Haplogroup Q1B1 and Q-M378. We are Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern and Central Europe. Apparently this Haplogroup started out in Siberia and moved all over the world to indigenous people as well as 5% of the Ashkenazi Jewish population it is believed. I am thinking but not sure that my dads side might be descended from the Khazars of Central Asia... I found a picture of my Great Great Grandma and she has strong Asiatic features.

jonahst
03-08-2018, 09:51 AM
I just got my Dads DNA results and he is part of Haplogroup Q1B1 and Q-M378. We are Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern and Central Europe. Apparently this Haplogroup started out in Siberia and moved all over the world to indigenous people as well as 5% of the Ashkenazi Jewish population it is believed. I am thinking but not sure that my dads side might be descended from the Khazars of Central Asia... I found a picture of my Great Great Grandma and she has strong Asiatic features.

Q-L245 (the subclade that Ashkenazi Q-M378 all belong to) seems to have been present in the Middle East long before the Khazars, so it's likely an ancient Israelite/Judean subclade. Also, I wouldn't draw conclusions about autosomal DNA (which would probably impact appearance much more than either Y-DNA or mtDNA) based on your individual haplogroup. The ancestor you inherited this from lived thousands of years ago, so you have millions of other ancestors who may have been from totally different regions.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_Q_Y-DNA.shtml#Q1b1

lwa714
07-31-2018, 11:12 PM
Hi everybody, sorry I haven't been on here for a while, forgot that this account even existed for a while. I recently found out my more detailed haplogroup is Q-Y2197. Does anyone have any info on this haplogroup? Thanks a lot!

spruithean
08-01-2018, 12:09 AM
Hi everybody, sorry I haven't been on here for a while, forgot that this account even existed for a while. I recently found out my more detailed haplogroup is Q-Y2197. Does anyone have any info on this haplogroup? Thanks a lot!

According to Y-Full (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Y2197/) it formed 1600 ybp and its sub-branches are spread across Poland, Ukraine and Austria. But Y-Full's information is dependent upon people submitting their data. I imagine it is found in other countries besides Ukraine, Poland and Austria.

Táltos
08-01-2018, 01:40 AM
Hi everybody, sorry I haven't been on here for a while, forgot that this account even existed for a while. I recently found out my more detailed haplogroup is Q-Y2197. Does anyone have any info on this haplogroup? Thanks a lot!

Congratulations! It is one of the two main Ashkenazi branches of Q1b that split off of Q-Y2200. Where did you test for your result? There are more subclades under Q-Y2197 for you to investigate. ;)

Táltos
08-02-2018, 03:23 AM
Hi everybody, sorry I haven't been on here for a while, forgot that this account even existed for a while. I recently found out my more detailed haplogroup is Q-Y2197. Does anyone have any info on this haplogroup? Thanks a lot!

Hi lwa714. This article includes discussion of the two main subclades (Q-Y2197 and Q-YP1003) that are under Jewish Ashkenazi Q-Y2200. https://www.academia.edu/11738905/Clarification_of_Y-DNA_Haplogroup_Q1b_Phylogenetic_Structure_Based_on _Y-Chromosome_Full_Sequencing

Since this paper more men have taken advanced SNP tests. Several subclades have been found downstream of the two main subclades. Really exciting times!

jonahst
08-02-2018, 06:04 AM
Do you get any Ashkenazi in 23andMe?

lwa714
08-03-2018, 03:14 PM
I got myself and my brothers tested at 23andMe, and their haplogroups changed from Q-M242 to Q-Y2197, and mine is still Q-M378.

lwa714
08-03-2018, 03:16 PM
I have 1.6% Ashkenazi. I know for a fact that my father is 15/16 Mestizo, and my paternal grandfather is full Mestizo, and they both have a small percentage of Ashkenazi (2.2% or less)

Targum
08-03-2018, 03:22 PM
I have 1.6% Ashkenazi. I know for a fact that my father is 15/16 Mestizo, and my paternal grandfather is full Mestizo, and they both have a small percentage of Ashkenazi (2.2% or less)

Jewish DNA is widespread in Mexico; the highest in Latin America; but it is overwhelmingly from Sefaradim, who cluster closely with Ashkenazim, so all Sefardim get "Ashkenazi" ancestry designations due to that overlap. I myself have Mexican matches indicating a common (Sefaradi) ancestor + - 300 years ago.

jonahst
08-04-2018, 03:35 AM
I have 1.6% Ashkenazi. I know for a fact that my father is 15/16 Mestizo, and my paternal grandfather is full Mestizo, and they both have a small percentage of Ashkenazi (2.2% or less)

This makes me wonder if either an Ashkenazi Jew with Q ended up in Spain at some point shortly before 1492 and some of his descendents ended up in the Americas with Spaniards and Sephardim... or if Ashkenazi Q was also present among some Sephardim during this period, but simply died off and these Q subclades only survived in Ashkenazim. I feel like the first scenario is more plausible, especially since we know of Sephardi Jews living in Eastern Europe who ended up in the Americas as late as the 18th century (Haym Salomon). Either way, really interesting!

jonahst
08-04-2018, 11:56 PM
My dad's 23andMe updated recently and changed his Y haplogroup from the very general Q-M242 to Q-Y2750, which is downstream from Q-Y2197. Did you get a similar update too?

Táltos
08-05-2018, 05:35 AM
My dad's 23andMe updated recently and changed his Y haplogroup from the very general Q-M242 to Q-Y2750, which is downstream from Q-Y2197. Did you get a similar update too?

Is 23&me getting this specific with Q1b?

jonahst
08-05-2018, 06:57 AM
Is 23&me getting this specific with Q1b?

Yeah, all of these (and all Jewish Q) are Q1b.

Táltos
08-06-2018, 05:49 AM
Yeah, all of these (and all Jewish Q) are Q1b.

I understand that. I'm asking if 23andme is testing more specifically downstream of Q-M378. I had noticed my autosomal matches that are Q1b changed to Q-M378 with the update. I have not seen anyone further downstream of that SNP. I just checked one of my matches who I know for sure is on the Q-Y2197 branch, and they are only listed as Q-M378.

I opened up 23andme's tree under Scientific details now. I see the furthest downstream of Q-M378 that they have listed for the Ashkenazi Q1b is Q-Y2750, and Q-Y2780. So are they only finding those SNPs along the Q-Y2197 branch for men that tested on the v5 chip I'm guessing?

They completely miss the Q-YP1003 branch. You guys should still test at either FTDNA, Full Genomes, or YSEQ to drill down further. I'm not saying that because you might be Q-YP1003. If you are Q-Y2197 you will be negative for 1003. There are more SNPs under the Q-Y2197 branch, and the other two that 23andme has listed under it. jonahst you did get kind of lucky that they could be that specific for you but look here. https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Y2750/ You might have a new SNP not discovered yet if you do Big Y at FTDNA or test at Full Genomes Corp. Or you might be Q-BZ29. :)

jonahst
08-06-2018, 06:50 AM
So my dad's and my haplogroup was originally listed as Q-M242 on 23andMe. Through Living DNA, I found out it's Q-M378 (which is kind of self-evident since we're Ashkenazi). Through WeGene, oddly enough, I found out that my dad is Q-Y2197 (Q1b1a1a1). This was confirmed from my own TeloYears Advanced Ancestry results, which provided a very detailed analysis of my Y-DNA. Now, all of sudden, on 23andMe, my dad's haplogroup has gone from Q-M242 all the way down to Q-Y2750, which is downstream from Q-Y2197.

Here's the Y-tree for Q-Y2750 (starting from upstream Q-Y2200): https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Y2200/

Here's what TeloYears gave me:

25001
25002

Hope this helps clarify :)

Táltos
08-06-2018, 06:53 AM
So my dad's and my haplogroup was originally listed as Q-M242 on 23andMe. Through Living DNA, I found out it's Q-M378 (which is kind of self-evident since we're Ashkenazi). Through WeGene, oddly enough, I found out that my dad is Q-Y2197 (Q1b1a1a1). This was confirmed from my own TeloYears Advanced Ancestry results, which provided a very detailed analysis of my Y-DNA. Now, all of sudden, on 23andMe, my dad's haplogroup has gone from Q-M242 all the way down to Q-Y2750, which is downstream from Q-Y2197.

Here's the Y-tree for Q-Y2750 (starting from upstream Q-Y2200): https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Y2200/

Here's what TeloYears gave me:

25001
25002

Hope this helps clarify :)

Thanks! I'm not so familiar with TeloYears. I'll have to read up on them, but I can see now they are not as specific for Q-Y2197.

Erikl86
08-11-2018, 08:31 PM
I've used to be Q-M242 without any additional in-depth subclades, and being that I'm an East European Ashkenazi Jew from all sides with oral tradition of at least 9 generations, I thought it might be of Khazar origins.

However, after realizing most Q-M242 among Ashkenazi Jews is the Near Eastern Q-M378 subclade, I suspected it might be it. So I've originally downloaded my raw data and processed in "MorleyDNA.com Y-SNP Subclade Predictor", to determine that my Q-M242 sub-clade is most likely Q1b1 (Q-M378, Q-L214, Q-L215 , Q-L245).

I've even addressed 23andme after that to see if they can give me additional data, to which they answered:


We do not have any additional information beyond the history provided in the Haplogroups report in your 23andMe account.

So I was about to purchase FTDNA's Big Y kit, when finally 23andme gave me the following update:

http://i67.tinypic.com/29xzzoj.png

So I now know I'm Q-M378 with the specific Q-YP3924.

I checked on https://www.yfull.com my own tree, and this is what I got for Q-M242 -> Q-L232 -> Q-L275 -> Q-M378 -> Q-Y2016 -> Q-L245 -> Q-FGC19XX -> Q-Y2209:

http://i68.tinypic.com/4gmcno.png

It seems to have formed 3500 years ago, in Jordan.

Then, when I got to the deeper branch of the subclade, Q-Y2225, it seems to have formed roughly ~3900 years before present:

http://i67.tinypic.com/286vlo7.png

It seems to confirm that our Q-Y2200 paternal haplogroups originate from the Late Bronze Age (even Iron Age) Levant.

Also, according to FTDNA Jewish Q haplogroup:


In the Ashkenazi (Eastern European) Jewish population we are finding that those from Haplogroup Q are Q-Y2200. There appears to be one more mutation downstream (Q-Y2232) that really is only found among Jewish men.

In addition, there are several branches of Q found in Sephardi, Yemeni, and Greek Jewish populations.

And, according Gurianov et al. (2014), which found M378 in Ashkenazi Jews:

http://i68.tinypic.com/mj9zpv.png

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274510291_Phylogenetic_Structure_of_Q-M378_Subclade_Based_On_Full_Y-Chromosome_Sequencing

AJ1 and AJ2 in the bottom are Ashkenazi Jews.

In any case, myself and @Agamemnon are discussing the origins of this subclade in another thread (in which @jonahst is also a live participant), and he proposes some very interesting insights on the matter, check out these posts of his:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14484-Could-Western-Jews-(Ash-and-Seph-)-descend-from-Aegeans-and-Levantine-admixture&p=460692&viewfull=1#post460692

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14484-Could-Western-Jews-(Ash-and-Seph-)-descend-from-Aegeans-and-Levantine-admixture&p=461276&viewfull=1#post461276

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14484-Could-Western-Jews-(Ash-and-Seph-)-descend-from-Aegeans-and-Levantine-admixture&p=461308&viewfull=1#post461308

Táltos
08-12-2018, 04:53 AM
I've used to be Q-M242 without any additional in-depth subclades, and being that I'm an East European Ashkenazi Jew from all sides with oral tradition of at least 9 generations, I thought it might be of Khazar origins.

However, after realizing most Q-M242 among Ashkenazi Jews is the Near Eastern Q-M378 subclade, I suspected it might be it. So I've originally downloaded my raw data and processed in "MorleyDNA.com Y-SNP Subclade Predictor", to determine that my Q-M242 sub-clade is most likely Q1b1 (Q-M378, Q-L214, Q-L215 , Q-L245).

I've even addressed 23andme after that to see if they can give me additional data, to which they answered:



So I was about to purchase FTDNA's Big Y kit, when finally 23andme gave me the following update:

http://i67.tinypic.com/29xzzoj.png

So I now know I'm Q-M378 with the specific Q-YP3924.

I checked on https://www.yfull.com my own tree, and this is what I got for Q-M242 -> Q-L232 -> Q-L275 -> Q-M378 -> Q-Y2016 -> Q-L245 -> Q-FGC19XX -> Q-Y2209:

http://i68.tinypic.com/4gmcno.png

It seems to have formed 3500 years ago, in Jordan.

Then, when I got to the deeper branch of the subclade, Q-Y2225, it seems to have formed roughly ~3900 years before present:

http://i67.tinypic.com/286vlo7.png

It seems to confirm that our Q-Y2200 paternal haplogroups originate from the Late Bronze Age (even Iron Age) Levant.

Also, according to FTDNA Jewish Q haplogroup:



And, according Gurianov et al. (2014), which found M378 in Ashkenazi Jews:

http://i68.tinypic.com/mj9zpv.png

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274510291_Phylogenetic_Structure_of_Q-M378_Subclade_Based_On_Full_Y-Chromosome_Sequencing

AJ1 and AJ2 in the bottom are Ashkenazi Jews.

In any case, myself and @Agamemnon are discussing the origins of this subclade in another thread (in which @jonahst is also a live participant), and he proposes some very interesting insights on the matter, check out these posts of his:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14484-Could-Western-Jews-(Ash-and-Seph-)-descend-from-Aegeans-and-Levantine-admixture&p=460692&viewfull=1#post460692

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14484-Could-Western-Jews-(Ash-and-Seph-)-descend-from-Aegeans-and-Levantine-admixture&p=461276&viewfull=1#post461276

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14484-Could-Western-Jews-(Ash-and-Seph-)-descend-from-Aegeans-and-Levantine-admixture&p=461308&viewfull=1#post461308

23andme did get pretty specific for you, but Big Y or Full Genomes is still best.

Erikl86
08-12-2018, 05:37 AM
23andme did get pretty specific for you, but Big Y or Full Genomes is still best.

I might consider doing it anyhow. In the meantime, 23andme provides enough in-depth branches. I hope as Jewish Q haplogroups and sub-branches get specific enough, my subbranch (Q-YP392) which is at the moment not listed anywhere as associated to any specific ethnic group, will also be added as well. I've contacted FTDNA's Jewish Q group to add my branch, hope to hear back from them.


EDIT: So I was looking in the FTDNA Jewish Q project, and found out that there are additional 2 members from Poland with my specific Q-YP3924. I've also discovered that albeit 23andme doesn't reveal this, Q-YP3924 does down stream from Y2232, which is the specific additional marker found among Ashkenazi Jews:


In the Ashkenazi (Eastern European) Jewish population we are finding that those from Haplogroup Q are Q-Y2200. There appears to be one more mutation downstream (Q-Y2232) that really is only found among Jewish men.

What is interesting for me is that I've managed to track down my own paternal lineage to 1791 Poland, when my ancestor was given my family last name (which is a very rare last name).

So the fact that these two Polish Jews carry the same sub branch as myself makes a lot of sense.

http://i68.tinypic.com/30vertv.png

TzT
06-13-2019, 03:23 PM
Hi everybody, sorry I haven't been on here for a while, forgot that this account even existed for a while. I recently found out my more detailed haplogroup is Q-Y2197. Does anyone have any info on this haplogroup? Thanks a lot!
Hi , I am new to the forum. I have same Haplogroup. born at south east corner of Belarus, ethnicity Ashkenazi Jew 99.8%, As I know my family is from Belarus/Ukraine. Seems that there is no too much information about this haplogroup.

anvilmar
12-29-2019, 06:01 AM
Hey guys, i'm from the Black Sea region of Turkey, i'm Q-L245 but i don't know the subclade, my question is, do we know what path the Q-L245* lot took, could it be they crossed and left their mark to eastern Anatolia? Because it can be found in Armenia and Eastern Turkey aswell, or did it directly hit the red sea from central asia and made it's way up to anatolia?

Afshar
12-29-2019, 10:21 AM
Hey guys, i'm from the Black Sea region of Turkey, i'm Q-L245 but i don't know the subclade, my question is, do we know what path the Q-L245* lot took, could it be they crossed and left their mark to eastern Anatolia? Because it can be found in Armenia and Eastern Turkey aswell, or did it directly hit the red sea from central asia and made it's way up to anatolia?

Where did you test?

anvilmar
12-30-2019, 12:00 PM
Where did you test?

ftdna

Afshar
12-30-2019, 02:57 PM
ftdna
How many markers do you have and did you join the Q project?

anvilmar
12-31-2019, 02:30 AM
How many markers do you have and did you join the Q project?

Enough markers to determine that i'm q-l245 with no question, i don't see how these questions relate to my original question though, if you can't help me please don't reply anymore.

Táltos
01-01-2020, 06:22 PM
Enough markers to determine that i'm q-l245 with no question, i don't see how these questions relate to my original question though, if you can't help me please don't reply anymore.

Hi Afshar is pretty well versed in Q. The reality of it is there are barely any Ancient "Q1b" or as newer terminology renames it "Q3" samples. The oldest that I am aware of belong to Q-M378 (Q1b)
Heigouliang, Xinjiang, 2200YBP: 6 Q1a* (not Q1a1-M120, not Q1a1b-M25, not Q1a2-M3), 4 Q1b-M378, 2 Q* (not Q1a, not Q1b: unable to determine subclades):[155]
In a paper (Lihongjie 2012), the author analyzed the Y-DNAs of the ancient male samples from the 2nd or 1st century BCE cemetery at Heigouliang in Xinjiang – which is also believed to be the site of a summer palace for Xiongnu kings – which is east of the Barkol basin and near the city of Hami. The Y-DNA of 12 men excavated from the site belonged to Q-MEH2 (Q1a) or Q-M378 (Q1b). The Q-M378 men among them were regarded as hosts of the tombs; half of the Q-MEH2 men appeared to be hosts and the other half as sacrificial victims.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-M242#cite_note-155 I am trying to find the link to the original paper. This has been cited many times. If anyone has it, please post.

There is Q-YP4500 Q2-Y1150 ERS2374370 Aktas, Issyk, Tian Shan, 1634 BP, OutTianShanHun https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP4500*/

The best research for this third branch of Q, which represents the oldest split from Q is here. https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12862-016-0870-2


Haplogroup Q3-L275 results from the first known split within haplogroup Q, which occurred in the Paleolithic epoch: according to previous studies [15, 24], haplogroup Q split into the Q3-L275 and Q1’2-L472 branches around 35 ky ago. Thus the location of this split might help identify the homeland of haplogroup Q, from where it spread throughout Eurasia and the Americas. Our findings better support a West Asian or Central Asian homeland of Q3 than any other area: a higher frequency was found in West Asia and in neighboring Pakistan; and early branches were identified in West Asia, Central Asia and South Asia. Increasing the dataset of ancient DNA might in future identify additional early branches, helping to locate a possible homeland more precisely. The very few samples from present-day (Additional file 3: Table S2) or ancient [43] China do not contradict this hypothesis, as they came from the western provinces located in Central Asia or historically linked to this area.

STRs are just ok. SNPs are where it's at. The deeper you can test for those, the better. The Q Project is a good place to begin to research your lineage, as there are many members of the Q team that can help you get started. No one has all the answers yet. This for the most part has been driven by citizen scientists.

Táltos
01-01-2020, 06:28 PM
Happy New Year to All!

It wasn't so long ago that everyone who tested for the Q-L245 were automatically pegged as Jewish. They were clearly wrong. My, what a difference a decade makes!

More discovery even awaits in the Ashkenazi branches. Here's to another decade of discovery!! :beerchug:

anvilmar
01-04-2020, 07:37 AM
Hi Afshar is pretty well versed in Q. The reality of it is there are barely any Ancient "Q1b" or as newer terminology renames it "Q3" samples. The oldest that I am aware of belong to Q-M378 (Q1b) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-M242#cite_note-155 I am trying to find the link to the original paper. This has been cited many times. If anyone has it, please post.

There is Q-YP4500 Q2-Y1150 ERS2374370 Aktas, Issyk, Tian Shan, 1634 BP, OutTianShanHun https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP4500*/

The best research for this third branch of Q, which represents the oldest split from Q is here. https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12862-016-0870-2



STRs are just ok. SNPs are where it's at. The deeper you can test for those, the better. The Q Project is a good place to begin to research your lineage, as there are many members of the Q team that can help you get started. No one has all the answers yet. This for the most part has been driven by citizen scientists.

Hello, thank you for your reply, unfortunately nothing i didn't know before. i'm already in the Q project.

parasar
03-08-2020, 07:26 PM
Hi Afshar is pretty well versed in Q. The reality of it is there are barely any Ancient "Q1b" or as newer terminology renames it "Q3" samples. The oldest that I am aware of belong to Q-M378 (Q1b) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-M242#cite_note-155 I am trying to find the link to the original paper. This has been cited many times. If anyone has it, please post.

There is Q-YP4500 Q2-Y1150 ERS2374370 Aktas, Issyk, Tian Shan, 1634 BP, OutTianShanHun https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP4500*/

The best research for this third branch of Q, which represents the oldest split from Q is here. https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12862-016-0870-2



STRs are just ok. SNPs are where it's at. The deeper you can test for those, the better. The Q Project is a good place to begin to research your lineage, as there are many members of the Q team that can help you get started. No one has all the answers yet. This for the most part has been driven by citizen scientists.

Any ideas how Y1150 got into Swat Valley?
K1b1a1 Q1b2 400-200 BCE I7718 Q1b2-L275>Y1150* (xY1144)
M5a Q1b2 1000-800 BCE I13228 Q1b2-L275>Y1150 (xYP4500, YP755)
M5a Q1b2 927-831 calBCE (2745±20 BP, PSUAMS-2793) I5400 Q1b2-L275>Y1150 (xYP4500, YP755)