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greerpalmer
07-03-2017, 08:25 PM
With advancements in ongoing projects such as the Irish DNA project and German DNA project, basing ancestral homes on Surnames is no longer adequate for me and I'm really driven to find where within said country my ancestors came from.

There are a lot of paid services out there, but my experience with them thus far makes me wary to pay actual money for any (additional) without a strong recommendation.
My biggest genealogy pains come from my Prussian and Irish roots. I don't mean to be obnoxious with posting this, but I figured someone may know name or location specific resources.
Any tips for tracking these guys down?

Germany/Prussia
Ernest Siegel b. Prussia 1846 & Augusta Meissner b. Prussia 1853
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Ernest J. Siegel b. 1879 IL, USA

Elizabeth Weibel b. PA, USA 1790
most recent confirmed ancestor-- James Allebaugh b. PA, USA 1815

Ernestine "Emma or Tinnie?" Discher b. Prussia 1838
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Frieda Washburn b. WI, USA 1867

Ireland (or Scotland, Wales & England)
James M Hicks b. unknown & Rose McAvin b. WI, USA 1855
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Martha R Hicks b. IL, USA 1887

Elizabeth Guinn b. PA, USA 1824
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Nancy Allebaugh b. VI, USA 1848

Edward Cuddy b. Roscommon Co, IRL 1808 & Elizabeth Weir b. Unknown, IRL 1810
most recent confirmed ancestor-- James Cuddy b. Roscommon Co, IRL 1850

George Frazer b. Unknown, IRL 1796 & Elender L (Unknown) Fraser b. PA, USA 1791
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Mary Ann Frazier b. PA, USA 1822

deadly77
07-03-2017, 09:29 PM
With advancements in ongoing projects such as the Irish DNA project and German DNA project, basing ancestral homes on Surnames is no longer adequate for me and I'm really driven to find where within said country my ancestors came from.

There are a lot of paid services out there, but my experience with them thus far makes me wary to pay actual money for any (additional) without a strong recommendation.
My biggest genealogy pains come from my Prussian and Irish roots. I don't mean to be obnoxious with posting this, but I figured someone may know name or location specific resources.
Any tips for tracking these guys down?

Germany/Prussia
Ernest Siegel b. Prussia 1846 & Augusta Meissner b. Prussia 1853
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Ernest J. Siegel b. 1879 IL, USA

Elizabeth Weibel b. PA, USA 1790
most recent confirmed ancestor-- James Allebaugh b. PA, USA 1815

Ernestine "Emma or Tinnie?" Discher b. Prussia 1838
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Frieda Washburn b. WI, USA 1867

Ireland (or Scotland, Wales & England)
James M Hicks b. unknown & Rose McAvin b. WI, USA 1855
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Martha R Hicks b. IL, USA 1887

Elizabeth Guinn b. PA, USA 1824
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Nancy Allebaugh b. VI, USA 1848

Edward Cuddy b. Roscommon Co, IRL 1808 & Elizabeth Weir b. Unknown, IRL 1810
most recent confirmed ancestor-- James Cuddy b. Roscommon Co, IRL 1850

George Frazer b. Unknown, IRL 1796 & Elender L (Unknown) Fraser b. PA, USA 1791
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Mary Ann Frazier b. PA, USA 1822

I don't know if this helps your specific situation, but this presentation from the WDYTYA discusses tracing ancestors across the pond. It is a bit long and despite the title, doesn't contain much from a DNA perspective (there are some slides after the presenter finishes speaking and the question session). It does have what seems like a rather comprehensive references of books and sources to check out. The presentation is on youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBy5wxXEs2E&feature=youtu.be

However, I don't know how useful or easy this is to use - I live in the US these days but I was born and brought up in the UK so have never had to dig into these references.

Specifically from Ireland - I've managed to find sparse records for my Irish branch on Familysearch, Ancestry, and Findmypast, although I imagine that you're aware of them. They are mostly indexes, although I was able to use that data to order my ggg-grandparents marriage certificate from Ireland GRO.

ajc347
07-03-2017, 09:41 PM
The best sources I've found for Ireland are rootsireland.ie (which is a paid site) and irishgenealogy.ie (which is a free site). They both have a wealth of material and it is possible to opt for a 24 hour subscription to rootsireland. They've both proved invaluable in tracking down my Irish ancestry and contain significantly more information than I could find on both Ancestry and Findmypast.

Baltimore1937
07-09-2017, 06:26 PM
My tree needs some Austrian research. But someone else will have to do it. The starting point would be Catholic church records in Steyr, Austria.

RobertCasey
07-10-2017, 01:23 AM
From a genetic genealogy point of view, you have two paths to pursue: atDNA testing (Family Finder, Ancestry.com or 23andme) or YDNA. atDNA has more immediate results but is more limited in scope. It covers all of your lines but you start losing the ability match ancestors starting in the early 1800s. Also, the starting price of under $100 is a little deceiving as it really takes multiple tests to determine which line your matches belong to.

YDNA only covers one all male line and is really a top to bottom research effort. It is much better for breaking brick walls in the 1700s or even earlier. It is top down as your particular line could be either poorly tested (Germany is not as well covered but Irish lines are much better covered) or less prolific in offspring - leaving with only matches over 1,000 years ago. For your Irish lines, YDNA testing is pretty extensive but it is much easier if you belong to very prolific Irish haplogroup like R-M222 (4,000 testers) or R-L226 (1,000 testers). You will not know how well tested or how prolific your line is until you test.

Genetic genealogy is not inexpensive and requires as much as effort as genealogy research. But research trips and online database fees are not inexpensive as well. YDNA testing has an unbelievable long term potential that is now starting to pay off. We will eventually be able to assign unique signatures to all of our ancestors on our pedigree charts but this is really five years out and will require 10X and 100X the current testing - too long term for many who want immediate results that atDNA will yield. You should either start out with one atDNA test (yourself - better yet your parents or grandparent). Or you can start with one all male line with a 67 marker test from FTDNA.

greerpalmer
07-10-2017, 02:46 PM
Thanks Robert. I have done both atDNA and yDNA testing, but without common surnames or distinguishable and specific common geographic origins its hard to determine a match. I've found many genetic cousins for my other lines, but common irish/german names are difficult to prove a connection through.

I've tested on familyfinder, 23andme and I'm waiting for my ancestry results which I'm hoping will better connect me with cousins with stronger genealogical records. My parents have also done familyfinder through FTDNA. I've also done a 67 marker Y test (the Siegel line is my paternal line) and connected with a couple dozen individuals from with variations of the "Friese" name from the general area of France and Germany, but no atDNA+YDNA matches nor reoccurring counties/provinces in those countries. My nationality estimate from that at zero distance is Netherlands/German (again, believable but not new information) and my further matches are heavy in the Balkans and the middle east (not surprising since I'm EV13)

Thanks

Judith
07-10-2017, 08:05 PM
This guy is expert on the Palantine immigrants to USA which is probably not your area.
http://www.hankjones.com/pdfs/HankJonesblog.pdf and his hints seem generally useful and his books rate well on Amazon

Judith
07-11-2017, 11:08 AM
And of course there s the excellent cyndi list
http://www.cyndislist.com/germany

greerpalmer
07-13-2017, 06:59 PM
Germany/Prussia
Ernest Siegel b. Prussia 1846 & Augusta Meissner b. Prussia 1853
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Ernest J. Siegel b. 1879 IL, USA

Elizabeth Weibel b. PA, USA 1790
most recent confirmed ancestor-- James Allebaugh b. PA, USA 1815

Ernestine "Emma or Tinnie?" Discher b. Prussia 1838
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Frieda Washburn b. WI, USA 1867

Ireland (or Scotland, Wales & England)
James M Hicks b. unknown & Rose McAvin b. WI, USA 1855
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Martha R Hicks b. IL, USA 1887

Elizabeth Guinn b. PA, USA 1824
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Nancy Allebaugh b. VI, USA 1848

Edward Cuddy b. Roscommon Co, IRL 1808 & Elizabeth Weir b. Unknown, IRL 1810
most recent confirmed ancestor-- James Cuddy b. Roscommon Co, IRL 1850

George Frazer b. Unknown, IRL 1796 & Elender L (Unknown) Fraser b. PA, USA 1791
most recent confirmed ancestor-- Mary Ann Frazier b. PA, USA 1822

Update: I managed to trace the Weibel line which was difficult because of a mispelling in the name. Elizabeth WAIBEL's parents migrated to NY from northern Switzerland.

kostoffj
08-18-2017, 06:17 PM
This guy is expert on the Palantine immigrants to USA which is probably not your area.
http://www.hankjones.com/pdfs/HankJonesblog.pdf and his hints seem generally useful and his books rate well on Amazon

He might actually be useful. One thing to keep in mind is that when you see Prussia as land of birth in things like US Census reports especially from the 19th Century, it refers to the political unit of the Kingdom of Prussia and all its various possessions in what would become Germany in 1871, which was a substantial chunk of modern-day Germany north of the Main river (so excluding Bavaria, Württemberg, etc). There is the historical Prussia which is centered around Berlin and extended east into what is today parts of Poland and the Baltics, and the various small principalities, kingdoms and so forth, of Germany that came, bit by bit, under Prussian control starting after the conclusion of the Napoleonic Wars and culminating in the establishment of the German Empire. All of my German ancestors with the exception of one family came from the Palatinate or nearby but many of them in the US Censuses had recorded place of birth or place of parents' birth as Prussia (and the others as Bavaria since the rest of the Pfalz after the Napoleonic Wars went to the Kingdom of Bavaria). I could never see a pattern between the use of Prussia (and Bavaria) as country of origin and the use of Germany, even regarding the unification of Germany in 1871 so I assume it depended on the census takers' proclivities and what they were told by those whom they were interviewing at the time. Confusing at first when you look at the records and see the names Prussia and Bavaria but made sense once I knew the cities/ regions involved and realized to whom they belonged at the time.

IIRC the vast majority of German emigration to the United States came from the Rhineland, most of that from the Palatinate, so a good chance your Prussian ancestors do too and thus such resources will be helpful.

greerpalmer
08-18-2017, 06:51 PM
He might actually be useful. One thing to keep in mind is that when you see Prussia as land of birth in things like US Census reports especially from the 19th Century, it refers to the political unit of the Kingdom of Prussia and all its various possessions in what would become Germany in 1871, which was a substantial chunk of modern-day Germany north of the Main river (so excluding Bavaria, Württemberg, etc). There is the historical Prussia which is centered around Berlin and extended east into what is today parts of Poland and the Baltics, and the various small principalities, kingdoms and so forth, of Germany that came, bit by bit, under Prussian control starting after the conclusion of the Napoleonic Wars and culminating in the establishment of the German Empire. All of my German ancestors with the exception of one family came from the Palatinate or nearby but many of them in the US Censuses had recorded place of birth or place of parents' birth as Prussia (and the others as Bavaria since the rest of the Pfalz after the Napoleonic Wars went to the Kingdom of Bavaria). I could never see a pattern between the use of Prussia (and Bavaria) as country of origin and the use of Germany, even regarding the unification of Germany in 1871 so I assume it depended on the census takers' proclivities and what they were told by those whom they were interviewing at the time. Confusing at first when you look at the records and see the names Prussia and Bavaria but made sense once I knew the cities/ regions involved and realized to whom they belonged at the time.

IIRC the vast majority of German emigration to the United States came from the Rhineland, most of that from the Palatinate, so a good chance your Prussian ancestors do too and thus such resources will be helpful.

Thank you. You're right--most of the German families came from Rhineland, or at least the western boarder of Germany. Despite being "1/3" German on paper, I get no more than 12% Western European from any DNA product--I do however get good chunks of Iberian and Italian.

My Siegel line actually has Mecklenbourg and Prussia as the his parents origins, and my Discher line has Pomerania listed on some documents. Various admixture calculators identify high Baltics percentages as well as Finnish/Russian, Eastern European and Ashkenazi bits that make me think one or all of these lines comes from modern day Poland or east. I also have Ukrainian, Slavic and Russian matches without a confirmed common ancestor.

Dewsloth
08-18-2017, 07:39 PM
Thanks Robert. I have done both atDNA and yDNA testing, but without common surnames or distinguishable and specific common geographic origins its hard to determine a match. I've found many genetic cousins for my other lines, but common irish/german names are difficult to prove a connection through.

I know how you feel: I've got a "Miller" ancestor from about 200 years ago who shows up in the the colonies ... half the online sources say she's N. Irish, half say German :lol:
It's not quite a brick wall, more like sticks or straw; and will require a lot more huffing and puffing when I get the time.