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Claudio
07-03-2017, 10:51 PM
Hi there 👋
I am interested in finding out what my mother a fathers definitive Correct Haplogroups are?
What company should I have used?
Bear in mind I am not interested in matching data with people etc or anything else I simply just want to be sure of being assigned the "correct Haplogroups" as I have heard of people getting different results from different companies? Sometimes wrong?
At this moment I am awaiting ethnicity reports from both 23andMe and Living DNA and they both come with assigned Haplogroup results..
Will they be correct and definitive as far as being the correct Haplogroups assigned?🤔

Gandhara
07-03-2017, 11:14 PM
Hi there ��
I am interested in finding out what my mother a fathers definitive Correct Haplogroups are?
What company should I have used?
Bear in mind I am not interested in matching data with people etc or anything else I simply just want to be sure of being assigned the "correct Haplogroups" as I have heard of people getting different results from different companies? Sometimes wrong?
At this moment I am awaiting ethnicity reports from both 23andMe and Living DNA and they both come with assigned Haplogroup results..
Will they be correct and definitive as far as being the correct Haplogroups assigned?��

You might notice some discrepancies, specially if you are of a non European background. What is your background?

geebee
07-03-2017, 11:28 PM
I suppose when you say "definitive correct haplogroup", you mean according to some standard. Generally, I think people use the phylogenetic tree proposed by Manis van Owen and Manfred Kayser as that standard.

You can find the latest version of that tree here: http://www.phylotree.org/tree/index.htm

This is what Family Tree DNA uses. I'm not sure what 23andMe uses; they recently made some sort of update, but it made no difference for me. The reason is, whatever tree they're using, they don't test for enough SNPs. At FTDNA, I took the FGS test (FGS being an abbreviation for "Full Genomic Sequence").

Taking the FGS is important, because some haplogroups can only be determined with reference to SNPs from the coding region. 23andMe very well may test some SNPs from the coding region, as well as from HVR1 and HVR2, but they don't test for every single base in the mtDNA molecule -- which is what the FGS test does. FTDNA also offers something called mtDNA+, but that is not what I took or would recommend.

So, returning to 23andMe's "update" ... even after it, my haplogroup designation there was unchanged. It remained as simply H1. At FTDNA, it's H1bg.

But, 23andMe's designation is not actually wrong. I am in H1. It's just that this designation isn't the most complete one currently possible. H1bg happens to be a subclade of H1, which FTDNA is able to identify for me because the test I took includes the defining SNP(s) for the subcade. 23andMe's test does not.

I'll also mention that tested with The Genographic Project, as well. Geno, too, came up with H1bg. So I suppose if you test with either FTDNA or with Geno, you should get fairly accurate and complete results. I would recommend, though, that you check that the test you're ordering will do the entire mtDNA sequence. I'm not actually sure if Geno does this, though if they don't they still tested for the defining SNPs for H1bg.

Actually, the only difference I can see between FTDNA and Geno in regard to haplogroups is with Y DNA. At FTDNA, my haplogroup designation is R-L1029. But at Geno, it's R-CTS11962. Here I prefer FTDNA, because while R-CTS11962 is technically not wrong, it's incomplete. R-1029 is a subcade of R-CTS11962, and apparently Geno either doesn't test for its defining marker(s), or I had a no call for that marker at Geno.

So, I'd go with FTDNA's "Full Sequence" test. At the moment, it looks as if the cost in the U.S. is $199.

FGC Corp
07-03-2017, 11:46 PM
Hi there ��
I am interested in finding out what my mother a fathers definitive Correct Haplogroups are?
What company should I have used?

There's another approach, which is more expensive and that is a whole genome test that yields complete Y DNA and mtDNA results. (a 20x WGS yields 100% mtDNA coverage as well as 14 mb coverage plus of the Y). Plus, of course, a 20x WGS yields the other 3 billion base pairs of the autosomal genome.

I'd regard the 20x WGS as the threshold for useful ancestry information on the Y. At 30x WGS, there is up to 15 mb of Y chromosome coverage.

Claudio
07-04-2017, 06:30 AM
You might notice some discrepancies, specially if you are of a non European background. What is your background?

Half Italian/Half English with minor Jewish ancestry 🤔

Claudio
07-04-2017, 07:12 AM
I suppose when you say "definitive correct haplogroup", you mean according to some standard. Generally, I think people use the phylogenetic tree proposed by Manis van Owen and Manfred Kayser as that standard.

You can find the latest version of that tree here: http://www.phylotree.org/tree/index.htm

This is what Family Tree DNA uses. I'm not sure what 23andMe uses; they recently made some sort of update, but it made no difference for me. The reason is, whatever tree they're using, they don't test for enough SNPs. At FTDNA, I took the FGS test (FGS being an abbreviation for "Full Genomic Sequence").

Taking the FGS is important, because some haplogroups can only be determined with reference to SNPs from the coding region. 23andMe very well may test some SNPs from the coding region, as well as from HVR1 and HVR2, but they don't test for every single base in the mtDNA molecule -- which is what the FGS test does. FTDNA also offers something called mtDNA+, but that is not what I took or would recommend.

So, returning to 23andMe's "update" ... even after it, my haplogroup designation there was unchanged. It remained as simply H1. At FTDNA, it's H1bg.

But, 23andMe's designation is not actually wrong. I am in H1. It's just that this designation isn't the most complete one currently possible. H1bg happens to be a subclade of H1, which FTDNA is able to identify for me because the test I took includes the defining SNP(s) for the subcade. 23andMe's test does not.

I'll also mention that tested with The Genographic Project, as well. Geno, too, came up with H1bg. So I suppose if you test with either FTDNA or with Geno, you should get fairly accurate and complete results. I would recommend, though, that you check that the test you're ordering will do the entire mtDNA sequence. I'm not actually sure if Geno does this, though if they don't they still tested for the defining SNPs for H1bg.

Actually, the only difference I can see between FTDNA and Geno in regard to haplogroups is with Y DNA. At FTDNA, my haplogroup designation is R-L1029. But at Geno, it's R-CTS11962. Here I prefer FTDNA, because while R-CTS11962 is technically not wrong, it's incomplete. R-1029 is a subcade of R-CTS11962, and apparently Geno either doesn't test for its defining marker(s), or I had a no call for that marker at Geno.

So, I'd go with FTDNA's "Full Sequence" test. At the moment, it looks as if the cost in the U.S. is $199.

Hey there 👋
Thanks for all that information 👍
Apparently as far as my future results from LivingDNA are concerned as far as Haplogroup testing information it states: "We test for 4,700 mitochondrial (maternal markers) and 22,000
Y-chromosonal (paternal) markers.
The review that I am taking this information from has the reviewer state that originally he took the Y-DNA 37marker test with FTDNA and was allocated to
I-M253 he then did Geno2.0 and was further refined to I-Z138 which he then uploaded to NevGen and was further refined to subclade
I-S2268.
Apparently his LivingDNA results took him all the way straight to subclade I-S2268.
He also did the full mitochondrial sequence (FMS) at FTDNA and also got the exact same results at LivingDNA.
Sounds promising. 🤔

deadly77
07-04-2017, 08:04 AM
Hey there ��
Thanks for all that information ��
Apparently as far as my future results from LivingDNA are concerned as far as Haplogroup testing information it states: "We test for 4,700 mitochondrial (maternal markers) and 22,000
Y-chromosonal (paternal) markers.
The review that I am taking this information from has the reviewer state that originally he took the Y-DNA 37marker test with FTDNA and was allocated to
I-M253 he then did Geno2.0 and was further refined to I-Z138 which he then uploaded to NevGen and was further refined to subclade
I-S2268.
Apparently his LivingDNA results took him all the way straight to subclade I-S2268.
He also did the full mitochondrial sequence (FMS) at FTDNA and also got the exact same results at LivingDNA.
Sounds promising. ��

My LivingDNA test gave me mtDNA haplogroup J1c1b2, which was the same designation that FTDNA full mitohochondrial sequence provided. From my raw data, LivingDNA tested 20 SNPs as positive which defined that haplogroup - the raw data from LivingDNA currently doesn't list the negative or no call SNPs. I think the chances of getting a comprehensive haplogroup assignment from LivingDNA will vary between different mt haplogroups given that there are 16569 markers tested in FMS, so that's 28% coverage. On a mt haplogroup that is well covered by LivingDNA's chip (such as mine) probably get a representative result. On other haplogroups, perhaps not so much. From my 23andme report, I got J1c1 - as geebee posted above, that's not wrong, but their chip just doesn't test for some of the defining markers for downstream subclades of J1c1 so the designation is less defined. Looking at my raw data, 23andme found 3270 markers, so covering 19.7% of my mtDNA.

Regarding the Y-DNA data, LivingDNA test was I-Z5235. That's reasonably far down the tree and much better than the I-M253 designation that 23andme gave me. I'm L338+ from a test at YSEQ that's a couple SNPs more down the tree, so LivingDNA's Y test didn't take me all the way but got me accurately on a significant branch. However, like the mtDNA, it's going to be based on what their plate tests - I'm sure that some haplogroups will have more comprehensive coverage than others. It wasn't my experience but some testers got some erroneous results - head on over to the LivingDNA section of the forum and there are a couple of threads regarding Y-DNA there.

JamesKane
07-04-2017, 11:24 AM
Haplogroups are a moving target. As more genomes are fully sequenced more branches of humanity are discovered. It becomes a question of just what time period are you interested in and has technology reached the price point your can afford to answer the question. My haplogroup on ISOGG's tree is just 400-800 years old. It was found comparing results from direct-to-consumer sequencing technologies.

Chip-tests like LivingDNA or 23andMe, while very affordable, remain unable to refine knowledge further. They offer a selection of known variants in a phylogenetic tree at a given snapshot in time. Those trees are obsolete monthly as labs crank out more sequences and analysts establish new branches. Therefore the only way to truly remain current is to invest in the same testing driving discovery.

The way forward is WGS. These tests deliver everything contained in the chip-tests as well as the variants that have occurred on your personal line. Continuous comparison of those results with thousands of others continually advances your haplgroup to present. As Justin noted above somewhere between 15x and 30x seems to be the sweet spot. The cost of the 20x is little less than 8x the cost of your Living DNA test though.

WGS has a few challenges due to the early nature. The results are largely a very large data dump and it falls on the purchaser to know where to go to get it interpreted. There's nothing nicely packaged up like the analysis offered by the companies selling the Chip-based tests.

Claudio
07-04-2017, 08:37 PM
My LivingDNA test gave me mtDNA haplogroup J1c1b2, which was the same designation that FTDNA full mitohochondrial sequence provided. From my raw data, LivingDNA tested 20 SNPs as positive which defined that haplogroup - the raw data from LivingDNA currently doesn't list the negative or no call SNPs. I think the chances of getting a comprehensive haplogroup assignment from LivingDNA will vary between different mt haplogroups given that there are 16569 markers tested in FMS, so that's 28% coverage. On a mt haplogroup that is well covered by LivingDNA's chip (such as mine) probably get a representative result. On other haplogroups, perhaps not so much. From my 23andme report, I got J1c1 - as geebee posted above, that's not wrong, but their chip just doesn't test for some of the defining markers for downstream subclades of J1c1 so the designation is less defined. Looking at my raw data, 23andme found 3270 markers, so covering 19.7% of my mtDNA.

Regarding the Y-DNA data, LivingDNA test was I-Z5235. That's reasonably far down the tree and much better than the I-M253 designation that 23andme gave me. I'm L338+ from a test at YSEQ that's a couple SNPs more down the tree, so LivingDNA's Y test didn't take me all the way but got me accurately on a significant branch. However, like the mtDNA, it's going to be based on what their plate tests - I'm sure that some haplogroups will have more comprehensive coverage than others. It wasn't my experience but some testers got some erroneous results - head on over to the LivingDNA section of the forum and there are a couple of threads regarding Y-DNA there.

Cheers 🍻
Will do 👍

Claudio
07-04-2017, 08:46 PM
Haplogroups are a moving target. As more genomes are fully sequenced more branches of humanity are discovered. It becomes a question of just what time period are you interested in and has technology reached the price point your can afford to answer the question. My haplogroup on ISOGG's tree is just 400-800 years old. It was found comparing results from direct-to-consumer sequencing technologies.

Chip-tests like LivingDNA or 23andMe, while very affordable, remain unable to refine knowledge further. They offer a selection of known variants in a phylogenetic tree at a given snapshot in time. Those trees are obsolete monthly as labs crank out more sequences and analysts establish new branches. Therefore the only way to truly remain current is to invest in the same testing driving discovery.

The way forward is WGS. These tests deliver everything contained in the chip-tests as well as the variants that have occurred on your personal line. Continuous comparison of those results with thousands of others continually advances your haplgroup to present. As Justin noted above somewhere between 15x and 30x seems to be the sweet spot. The cost of the 20x is little less than 8x the cost of your Living DNA test though.

WGS has a few challenges due to the early nature. The results are largely a very large data dump and it falls on the purchaser to know where to go to get it interpreted. There's nothing nicely packaged up like the analysis offered by the companies selling the Chip-based tests.

When I mention making sure Of assignment of the right Haplogroups I mean as far as getting the correct letter as in it would be pretty erroneous if you got assigned say J1 when you are actually J2 or even More so say R1 and J2.. etc..
I take it most tests can be depended on to atleast distinguish and allocate Haplogroups correctly at that basic level 🤔

JamesKane
07-06-2017, 11:40 PM
Without seeing the SNPs selected in the chip, we really can't say for certain but under most circumstances such a test should have no problem identifying a position close to the tree skeleton. While it's not uncommon for 10% of probes to fail in a design, it would be difficult to confuse someone under J with someone under R if there is a least a little redundancy in the selection.

The roots of the tree really aren't interesting for most people pursuing genetic genealogical testing though. Most seem to at least be interested in the Middle Ages ancestry.

ArmandoR1b
07-07-2017, 12:44 AM
When I mention making sure Of assignment of the right Haplogroups I mean as far as getting the correct letter as in it would be pretty erroneous if you got assigned say J1 when you are actually J2 or even More so say R1 and J2.. etc..
I take it most tests can be depended on to atleast distinguish and allocate Haplogroups correctly at that basic level 🤔

I have never seen 23andme provide a false positive for a haplogroup. They have put people in an upstream haplogroup because they don't have enough data to put them in a downstream haplogroup that they have tested positive for.

LivingDNA has already shown a false positive for one person when they showed him positive for M153 even though 23andme raw data showed that he tested negative for the haplogroup. LivingDNA later corrected his haplogroup.

LivingDNA gave a false negative for P312 to another tester. Both FTDNA and Yseq showed him positive for P312.

Another person at LivingDNA has the incorrect haplogroup. I don't know if it is due to a false positive, false negative, or both.

When Geno 2.0 NG results are transferred to FTDNA the results are used incorrectly and negative results are ignored and some SNPs are shown as positive even though they are really negative in the raw data.

So, it depends on which company is doing the test and sometimes it depends on how the results are interpreted.

Bottom line is that if there is a discrepancy between 23andme and LivingDNA then 23andme is the one to believe. If LivingDNA gives you a more downstream SNP than 23andme then have it double-checked with another company such as FTDNA, Yseq, or FGC but not with Geno 2.0.

Claudio
07-10-2017, 03:15 PM
I have never seen 23andme provide a false positive for a haplogroup. They have put people in an upstream haplogroup because they don't have enough data to put them in a downstream haplogroup that they have tested positive for.

LivingDNA has already shown a false positive for one person when they showed him positive for M153 even though 23andme raw data showed that he tested negative for the haplogroup. LivingDNA later corrected his haplogroup.

LivingDNA gave a false negative for P312 to another tester. Both FTDNA and Yseq showed him positive for P312.

Another person at LivingDNA has the incorrect haplogroup. I don't know if it is due to a false positive, false negative, or both.

When Geno 2.0 NG results are transferred to FTDNA the results are used incorrectly and negative results are ignored and some SNPs are shown as positive even though they are really negative in the raw data.

So, it depends on which company is doing the test and sometimes it depends on how the results are interpreted.

Bottom line is that if there is a discrepancy between 23andme and LivingDNA then 23andme is the one to believe. If LivingDNA gives you a more downstream SNP than 23andme then have it double-checked with another company such as FTDNA, Yseq, or FGC but not with Geno 2.0.

Ok cheers 👍

gstockman
07-11-2017, 07:36 PM
Haplogroups are a moving target. As more genomes are fully sequenced more branches of humanity are discovered. It becomes a question of just what time period are you interested in and has technology reached the price point your can afford to answer the question. My haplogroup on ISOGG's tree is just 400-800 years old. It was found comparing results from direct-to-consumer sequencing technologies.

Chip-tests like LivingDNA or 23andMe, while very affordable, remain unable to refine knowledge further. They offer a selection of known variants in a phylogenetic tree at a given snapshot in time. Those trees are obsolete monthly as labs crank out more sequences and analysts establish new branches. Therefore the only way to truly remain current is to invest in the same testing driving discovery.

The way forward is WGS. These tests deliver everything contained in the chip-tests as well as the variants that have occurred on your personal line. Continuous comparison of those results with thousands of others continually advances your haplgroup to present. As Justin noted above somewhere between 15x and 30x seems to be the sweet spot. The cost of the 20x is little less than 8x the cost of your Living DNA test though.

WGS has a few challenges due to the early nature. The results are largely a very large data dump and it falls on the purchaser to know where to go to get it interpreted. There's nothing nicely packaged up like the analysis offered by the companies selling the Chip-based tests.

JamesKane, I note with interest your comment on analysis of the WGS test. As I wait for the results on their 30x, I'd like to hear more about analyses options. Can you provide any guidance? Thank you, George Stockman

JamesKane
07-13-2017, 12:23 AM
As with any early technology there is a vacuum when it comes to interpretation. I would expect something of a hybrid between GedMatch and YFULL will arise but there is a lot of work to be done.

In the mean time there are scripts available on GitHub that you can use to extract the equivalent of 23andMe's V3 Raw Data. Those files could then be placed in a matching service like GedMatch, if you haven't taken a test like FamilyFinder. It should also work with companies like DNAFit, who accept the 23andMe files for additional analysis. Having those reports myself, I'm not really sure I'd recommend them though.

If you took FGC's test, Justin should be able to refer you to some partners that can help unlock more information.

gstockman
07-13-2017, 03:37 PM
Thank you, JamesKane. I appreciate your reply.:)

FGC Corp
07-13-2017, 05:24 PM
JamesKane, I note with interest your comment on analysis of the WGS test. As I wait for the results on their 30x, I'd like to hear more about analyses options. Can you provide any guidance? Thank you, George Stockman

Promethease accepts FGC WGS data:
https://promethease.com

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Testing

Full Genomes Corp offers full human genome sequencing. The highest tier has 30x coverage for $1425 and currently (as of November 30th, 2015) provides data for 60,326 SNPs (based on one sample) in SNPedia. Lower depth of coverage (2x, 4x, 10x, 20x) are available for lower prices.

Note that our current 30x WGS prices are lower than $1425

Claudio
08-07-2017, 09:21 AM
Still awaiting my LivingDNA results but received my 23andMe results and was allocated Paternal Haplogroup E-M183 which according to the information i can find is a subclade of E-M81 which is quite uncommon in Italians of full Italian ancestry and known as the "North African Berber genetic marker" 🤔 So piqued my interest in the haplogroup side of things and I'm now quite eager to learn more.
Is it worth me taking FTDNA's full sequence test to learn more?
Opinions anyone?

JamesKane
08-07-2017, 10:20 AM
Which NGS test to take is totally dependent on goals and budget. I have raw stats on the Y DNA coverage in most of the major sequencing tests here: NGS Coverage Stats (http://www.haplogroup-r.org/stats.html) The numbers are generated by putting all the raw reads through an alignment pipeline modeled on Broad Institute's Best Practices (https://software.broadinstitute.org/gatk/best-practices/) and examining the coverage. Keep in mind the WGS values are about 2% lower than they should be since using all the reads for GRCh38 realignment isn't an effective use of time at the moment.

The important takeaway is Estimated Years Per SNP when one is attempting to workout a degree of relation. Those with higher total callable coverage will also be more future proof. Today's Y Elite or 20x+ WGS will hold up well with LR Chromium as the price comes down. FTDNA's Big Y testers with 50% of the coverage will need to retest at that point.

Claudio
08-07-2017, 11:07 AM
Not bothered about matching with people around the world.. just interested in getting a more definitive answer on my E haplogroup as in which haplogroup subclade I belong to further down the track 🤔
Which FTDNA Y test should I take for that?
There are 3 advertised?

ArmandoR1b
08-07-2017, 11:26 AM
Not bothered about matching with people around the world.. just interested in getting a more definitive answer on my E haplogroup as in which haplogroup subclade I belong to further down the track 樂
Which FTDNA Y test should I take for that?
There are 3 advertised?

Since you don't care about matching you can just get the FGC Y-Elite or through FTDNA get the Y-DNA12 test which is only $59. It's a hidden test which you can order at https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=E1b1b1-M81

Once you get the Y-DNA12 you can then get the BigY while it is on sale for $395 or you can get the following SNP pack for $119.00 which includes M183 and SNPs downstream from M183.

E - Z827 SNP Pack
Includes the following SNPs on the haplotree:
L117, Z827, M81, M183, PF2546, CTS1411, CTS12555, PF6789, PF2431, PF1962, M123, M34, L791, CTS4659, CTS1096, PF6751, L790, PF6747, F1382, PF4428, CTS4111, PF1975, PF1952, CTS10880, CTS11051, M293, CTS2297, M165, L793, L19, CTS12227, MZ24, Y5939, CTS12170, Z21398, CTS1882, Y4970, CTS1727, MZ21, FGC38517, S2574, Y4971, PH3893, V42, B405, A930, FGC18401, Y4972, V1700, FGC18718, Y14891, Y14899, A2227, V1486, PF2428, Y15558, Y17357, PF4666, Z5013, V1785, Z849, B406, MZ12, A601, F1539, Z1267, PF6794, A5603, MZ7, A428, MZ80, Y6923, PF2438, Z5009, Y16781, Y2933, FGC18412, Y6198, Y6966, V6, Y5412, Z21018, MZ3, PF2423, MZ16, V1515, MZ13, Y15423, Y2947, FGC15536, Z841, Y15936, Z21466, Y16161, Y2962

Includes the following SNPs that are NOT on the haplotree:
PF6391, F1426, F2563, F2932, F3337, M136, PF5243, F42, PF3780, V92, Z36108, F1872, F2831, PF6758, CTS10683, Z21397, Z21396, Y5871, Z830, PF6788, L351, Y15938, PF2586, CTS13027, Z36176, Z36103, Z1092, PF2572, M107, P72, V3065, Z21452, Z36181, Z36190, M4145, CTS697, FGC18983, Z21386, PF2418, Z21439, Z12663, CTS3561, PF2575, Z842, Z36730, PR1497, Z5010, Z36171, Z20401, V1792, Z21465, Z5014, Z36085, B404, B403


The SNP pack won't discover new SNPs like the Y-Elite or BigY tests do.

JamesKane
08-07-2017, 11:36 AM
As I've noted previously... Y haplogroups are a moving target. The more men who take an NGS test the more branches that are discovered. The surest way to know your group is to also NGS test.

If you just want to test the currently known branches, I'd actually recommend YSEQ's $99 E Superclade Panel. https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=51240

ArmandoR1b
08-07-2017, 12:13 PM
If you just want to test the currently known branches, I'd actually recommend YSEQ's $99 E Superclade Panel. https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=51240

Since he knows for a fact that he is positive for E-M183 which is downstream from E-L19 then it would be best for him to get the $88 E1b-L19 Panel at https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=21196

That way he can save $11 and get his final result faster.

Claudio
08-07-2017, 12:40 PM
Since he knows for a fact that he is positive for E-M183 which is downstream from E-L19 then it would be best for him to get the $88 E1b-L19 Panel at https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=21196

That way he can save $11 and get his final result faster.

Was gonna stick to FTDNA since they already have saliva sample and I'm awaiting an ethnicity test from them.. so since I am confirmed E-M183 you propose I take the $59 Test in the E group project section then upgrade to one of the Y tests (also advertised in the E group project you linked) below the $59 dollar test advertised?
Question? Is it essential Do I need to by $59 first? And secondly which add on Y test in E group project will be adequate for the requirements of me pinpointing more recent subclades? Apologize if this sounds like we are going in circles as I have limited knowledge as far as haplogroup testing lol

ArmandoR1b
08-07-2017, 01:10 PM
Was gonna stick to FTDNA since they already have saliva sample and I'm awaiting an ethnicity test from them.. so since I am confirmed E-M183 you propose I take the $59 Test in the E group project section
If you want the BigY test then yes.


then upgrade to then upgrade to one of the Y tests advertised below the $59 dollar test advertised in the E group project you linked?
No. The upgrades based on your interest aren't in that list.


Question? Is it essential Do I need to by $59 first?
You have to get the $59 test first for a BigY test per the rules of FTDNA.

I didn't know that they have a saliva sample of yours already. If you want the $119.00 E-Z827 SNP Pack log in to your FTDNA account then go to https://www.familytreedna.com/upgrades.aspx?ot=ADV then use the drop down box and choose SNP pack then click FIND then look for E - Z827 SNP Pack then click ADD on the right then click on Order Now. You will get a warning but you can ignore it. Then click on the blue button that says Order E-Z827 SNP Pack then Proceed to Checkout


And secondly which add on Y test in E group project will be adequate for the requirements of me pinpointing more recent subclades? Apologize if this sounds like we are going in circles as I have limited knowledge as far as haplogroup testing lolThe $119.00 E-Z827 SNP Pack is adequate for a downstream subclade of M183 but BigY is the best test at FTDNA when you calculate price per SNP and the fact that BigY will discover new SNPs especially if you get an analysis by YFull. So if you can spend $59+$395 go with the Y-DNA12 test and BigY.

If you don't get the BigY now and then decide to get it later you will have to wait for another sale unless you don't mind spending the full price of $575.

Claudio
08-07-2017, 01:29 PM
If you want the BigY test then yes.


No. The upgrades based on your interest aren't in that list.


You have to get the $59 test first for a BigY test per the rules of FTDNA.

I didn't know that they have a saliva sample of yours already. If you want the $119.00 E-Z827 SNP Pack log in to your FTDNA account then go to https://www.familytreedna.com/upgrades.aspx?ot=ADV then use the drop down box and choose SNP pack then click FIND then look for E - Z827 SNP Pack then click ADD on the right then click on Order Now. You will get a warning but you can ignore it. Then click on the blue button that says Order E-Z827 SNP Pack then Proceed to Checkout

The $119.00 E-Z827 SNP Pack is adequate for a downstream subclade of M183 but BigY is the best test at FTDNA when you calculate price per SNP and the fact that BigY will discover new SNPs especially if you get an analysis by YFull. So if you can spend $59+$395 go with the Y-DNA12 test and BigY.

If you don't get the BigY now and then decide to get it later you will have to wait for another sale unless you don't mind spending the full price of $575.

Not sure..
At the moment I have in basket $59+$119 E-z827snp pack


The $59+$395 Y-DNA test..
What is the proper name for Big Y test can't seem to find it at $395?

ArmandoR1b
08-07-2017, 01:40 PM
I see there is also an E-L674 for $230
What's that?

That's for people that belong to a subclade that you don't belong to since you are negative for M78.

Claudio
08-07-2017, 02:01 PM
That's for people that belong to a subclade that you don't belong to since you are negative for M78.

Is big Y test the test advertised Y-111 test $359 ?

ArmandoR1b
08-07-2017, 02:30 PM
Is big Y test the test advertised Y-111 test $359 ?

No. Bigy isn't advertised nor is it available until you pay for the $59 test. If you plan on getting BigY don't get the $119 E-Z827 SNP pack.

Claudio
08-07-2017, 03:33 PM
No. Bigy isn't advertised nor is it available until you pay for the $59 test. If you plan on getting BigY don't get the $119 E-Z827 SNP pack.

I have two Holidays coming up very soon so cannot afford big Y at present moment.. is it worth me getting the $59 test now in preparation for sometime in the near future when I get back from Holidays and can afford? ... like will it still be valid to upgrade in future? 🤔

ArmandoR1b
08-07-2017, 03:42 PM
I have two Holidays coming up very soon so cannot afford big Y at present moment.. is it worth me getting the $59 test now in preparation for sometime in the near future when I get back from Holidays and can afford? ... like will it still be valid to upgrade in future? ��

The sale on BigY ends Aug. 31st so if you can't get it by then you will have to wait for the next BigY sale which might be during winter. You can get the $59 test anytime although it would be best to get it now. The BigY upgrade can be done anytime after the $59 test even almost 10 years later. The BigY will cover everything in the $119 E-Z827 SNP pack so no need for both of those.

Claudio
08-07-2017, 03:50 PM
The sale on BigY ends Aug. 31st so if you can't get it by then you will have to wait for the next BigY sale which might be during winter. You can get the $59 test anytime although it would be best to get it now. The BigY upgrade can be done anytime after the $59 test even almost 10 years later. The BigY will cover everything in the $119 E-Z827 SNP pack so no need for both of those.

Have gone and ordered the $59 test I take it they will automatically just use my saliva DNA sample from the previous ancestry test? Correct?

ArmandoR1b
08-07-2017, 03:52 PM
Have gone and ordered the $59 test I take it they will automatically just use my saliva DNA sample from the previous ancestry test? Correct?
That is correct.

Claudio
08-07-2017, 04:04 PM
That is correct.

Cheers
Nice one 👍
Thanks for your help and patience lol
I have Amsterdam end of August then Thailand in November so I'll have to wait for the next big Y sale in winter but at least the $59 test will have been done and out of the way..
Thanks again 🙂👍

Claudio
08-08-2017, 03:45 PM
That is correct.

BTW what is the waiting time for haplogroup tests with FTDNA? Zhou long Will the $59 test take and will the 12 markers give me anything down stream from my 23andMe results or is that only likely to be revealed after finally doing Big Y?

JamesKane
08-08-2017, 04:33 PM
The 12 marker test has almost zero value, but is necessary for FTDNA's Y DNA project system. You most likely won't learn anything from the test.

ArmandoR1b
08-08-2017, 07:04 PM
BTW what is the waiting time for haplogroup tests with FTDNA? Zhou long Will the $59 test take and will the 12 markers give me anything down stream from my 23andMe results or is that only likely to be revealed after finally doing Big Y?

The 12 marker test is based on STR markers and doesn't do any SNP testing so it only predicts a haplogroup far upstream from the E-M183 SNP that you were tested for at 23andme. Your predicted haplogroup will be E-L117 like it is for the people with E-L117 in red at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/E-M81?iframe=yresults The people with a green SNP have had SNP testing.

Once you get BigY you will have a list of SNPs like the people at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/E-M81?iframe=ysnp and you will see a haplotree with your positive and negatives SNPs.

Claudio
08-09-2017, 03:39 PM
The 12 marker test is based on STR markers and doesn't do any SNP testing so it only predicts a haplogroup far upstream from the E-M183 SNP that you were tested for at 23andme. Your predicted haplogroup will be E-L117 like it is for the people with E-L117 in red at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/E-M81?iframe=yresults The people with a green SNP have had SNP testing.

Once you get BigY you will have a list of SNPs like the people at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/E-M81?iframe=ysnp and you will see a haplotree with your positive and negatives SNPs.

Cheers for info..
When you take Big Y what is the wait time for results?

Amerijoe
08-09-2017, 05:21 PM
Cheers for info..
When you take Big Y what is the wait time for results?

18041

Maybe someday, they'll get it down to hours. ;)

Claudio
08-09-2017, 05:45 PM
18041

Maybe someday, they'll get it down to hours. ;)

Impressive 🤔

Claudio
08-09-2017, 06:03 PM
Question..
I am E-M183 that's TMRCA is roughly 2100 years ago..
Thinking of doing Big Y in case I am a member of an even more recent E subclade.. I have tried looking all over the net for a list of younger E subgroups with there estimated TMRCA's but can't find shit that is understandable.. any ideas what the youngest E subclade is and how recent?

Ignis90
08-09-2017, 06:43 PM
There aren't many North African people getting tested , some of E-M81 youngest subclades have been found from Brits (450 ybp)!

I tested my mother's father line with ftdna y-37 and thanks to the projects (E-M81, E-M35, Maghreb), I got pretty detailed results: the subclade is mostly found in Tunisia with a couple from Sicily and Spain. The TMCRA is 1600 ybp if I remember correctly. In any case, I can upgrade the results by buying the E-L19 pack (39$) but I'm not in a hurry, the current results are enough for now.

You can check some of the results from the projects and if lucky, try to find names and people from your country in order to predict your suclade(s):
E-M81 project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/E-M81?iframe=yresults)

Claudio
08-09-2017, 08:10 PM
There aren't many North African people getting tested , some of E-M81 youngest subclades have been found from Brits (450 ybp)!

I tested my mother's father line with ftdna y-37 and thanks to the projects (E-M81, E-M35, Maghreb), I got pretty detailed results: the subclade is mostly found in Tunisia with a couple from Sicily and Spain. The TMCRA is 1600 ybp if I remember correctly. In any case, I can upgrade the results by buying the E-L19 pack (39$) but I'm not in a hurry, the current results are enough for now.

You can check some of the results from the projects and if lucky, try to find names and people from your country in order to predict your suclade(s):
E-M81 project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/E-M81?iframe=yresults)

Cheers for the reply Ignis90..
As young as (450 ybp?
Jeez!
OCD kicking in lol
I'm tempted to do the Big Y!
Will I need to enter projects before I purchase or can that wait till results?

Ignis90
08-09-2017, 08:42 PM
Will I need to enter projects before I purchase or can that wait till results?

I think you can join projects before the results, but not sure. I've seen people joining projects of other haplogroups than theirs, so it should be possible.
A great thing is you can talk to project managers, some of them are very helpful.

Claudio
08-13-2017, 01:58 AM
I think you can join projects before the results, but not sure. I've seen people joining projects of other haplogroups than theirs, so it should be possible.
A great thing is you can talk to project managers, some of them are very helpful.

Yeah I have joined an E-M81 project group whilst I await my results from Big Y concerning more recent subclades etc but at the moment the project manager places E-M81 founder affect to the founding of Carthage at 814BC which makes sense considering it was a colony to start with etc and how founder affects work in genetics etc but am still exited to find if my future subclade results will take me in any interesting directions lol