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Kopfjäger
07-08-2017, 07:58 PM
A Bulgarian fellow just tested positive for L21, with his closest matches sounding Polish (Paszkewicz). I figured I'd post it here since I'm not sure when we got L21+ results with roots this far east.

rms2
07-09-2017, 12:36 PM
A Bulgarian fellow just tested positive for L21, with his closest matches sounding Polish (Paszkewicz). I figured I'd post it here since I'm not sure when we got L21+ results with roots this far east.

Is there a way we can see his results, FTDNA kit number, etc.?

We've had R1b-L21 farther east, in Russia, but they were Volga Germans.

jdean
07-09-2017, 01:32 PM
We've two DF49 who are on separate branches of ZP21 (so just downstream of DF49) from the far east side of Poland, I'm afraid I don't know much of Poland's history but I don't think these two are likely to have resent German ancestry ?

Kopfjäger
07-09-2017, 01:39 PM
Is there a way we can see his results, FTDNA kit number, etc.?

We've had R1b-L21 farther east, in Russia, but they were Volga Germans.

Yeah, I probably should have posted that earlier. The kit number is E19070, and can be found in the Bulgarian DNA Project: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/bulgariandna?iframe=yresults.

jdean
07-09-2017, 02:01 PM
Yeah, I probably should have posted that earlier. The kit number is E19070, and can be found in the Bulgarian DNA Project: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/bulgariandna?iframe=yresults.

He's got quite a close match with a bunch of R-L159 folk, including somebody in the Stephens-Stevens project.

Kopfjäger
07-09-2017, 02:29 PM
He's got quite a close match with a bunch of R-L159 folk, including somebody in the Stephens-Stevens project.

He initially joined the Z255 Project, but I wasn't expecting him to test positive for L21. Usually, such close matches with someone from Europe that far east are due to convergence. Is there still an L21 SNP pack he can take to confirm a potential subclade?

jdean
07-09-2017, 02:48 PM
He initially joined the Z255 Project, but I wasn't expecting him to test positive for L21. Usually, such close matches with someone from Europe that far east are due to convergence. Is there still an L21 SNP pack he can take to confirm a potential subclade?

Yes indeed, the R1b - L21v2 SNP Pack is avalable for $119

Also I quite agree regarding the need to be careful of convergence, I tend to discount 'matches' that are too close to WAMH as a matter of course and these L151 folk I mentioned mostly have 11 @ DYS442 against his 12

eastara
08-13-2017, 10:36 AM
Yes indeed, the R1b - L21v2 SNP Pack is avalable for $119

Also I quite agree regarding the need to be careful of convergence, I tend to discount 'matches' that are too close to WAMH as a matter of course and these L151 folk I mentioned mostly have 11 @ DYS442 against his 12

This person has ordered the Z255 panel at YSEQ and has been proven negative for all branches under it. So this not a recent British Isles connection, but something older on the Balkans. It is possible several Serbs from Eastern Serbia are àlso from this branch according to the Serbian DNA project. Could be connnected àlso to the Poles and some East European branch exists.
Why don,t you sponsor Big Y as the price is too high for a Bulgarian student, he has tested in fact his grandfather.

-Z255 Panel processing
Z255+
Z16437 C-
Z16434 G-
Z16433 C-
Z16950 T-
Z16431 T-
A10318 G-
A1236 G-
BY2573 A-
A8429 A-
BY2680 A-
A15515 A-
A10639 A-
S23035 G-
A8449 C-
A6525 T-
BY13751 -

evon
08-13-2017, 11:29 AM
Is there a way we can see his results, FTDNA kit number, etc.?

We've had R1b-L21 farther east, in Russia, but they were Volga Germans.

Germans also settled in the Balkans:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1Sz-Sn4I1F-iqS2sNeeTPZ6-Jd8I&z=6&ll=45.99137484660326%2C32.122900386452784

http://www.norkarussia.info/uploads/3/7/7/9/37792067/german_settlements_eastern_europe.jpg
http://www.rollintl.com/roll/_images/grsettle.gif

I have a number of matches from the Balkans that I assume is connected to German migrations, especially one recent match from Constanta, Romania..

rms2
08-13-2017, 12:57 PM
This person has ordered the Z255 panel at YSEQ and has been proven negative for all branches under it. So this not a recent British Isles connection, but something older on the Balkans. It is possible several Serbs from Eastern Serbia are àlso from this branch according to the Serbian DNA project. Could be connnected àlso to the Poles and some East European branch exists.
Why don,t you sponsor Big Y as the price is too high for a Bulgarian student, he has tested in fact his grandfather.

-Z255 Panel processing
Z255+
Z16437 C-
Z16434 G-
Z16433 C-
Z16950 T-
Z16431 T-
A10318 G-
A1236 G-
BY2573 A-
A8429 A-
BY2680 A-
A15515 A-
A10639 A-
S23035 G-
A8449 C-
A6525 T-
BY13751 -

That's a good idea. I don't know how much money is in the L21 Project general fund, but that sounds like a good cause to spend some of it on.

eastara
08-13-2017, 03:05 PM
That's a good idea. I don't know how much money is in the L21 Project general fund, but that sounds like a good cause to spend some of it on.

Great, who is the person to contact about this? It has already been mentioned on this forum about L21 among Serbs:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?97-Genetic-Genealogy-and-Ancient-DNA-in-the-News&p=271306#post271306

Here is the Serbian Dna project, there is a L21 person from Pirot in Eastern Serbia. Our Bulgarian is from a place close to the border, however he claims they also came from Pirot.
http://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedinacne-grupe/?grp-filter=R1b

rms2
08-14-2017, 02:09 AM
Great, who is the person to contact about this? It has already been mentioned on this forum about L21 among Serbs:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?97-Genetic-Genealogy-and-Ancient-DNA-in-the-News&p=271306#post271306

Here is the Serbian Dna project, there is a L21 person from Pirot in Eastern Serbia. Our Bulgarian is from a place close to the border, however he claims they also came from Pirot.
http://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedinacne-grupe/?grp-filter=R1b

Mike Walsh is the head admin of the L21 Project now. Here at Anthrogenica he is Mikewww.

JerryS.
08-14-2017, 02:54 AM
wouldn't Bulgarians test closer to Greeks and Italians than to eastern Europeans?

Kopfjäger
08-16-2017, 12:25 AM
This person has ordered the Z255 panel at YSEQ and has been proven negative for all branches under it. So this not a recent British Isles connection, but something older on the Balkans. It is possible several Serbs from Eastern Serbia are àlso from this branch according to the Serbian DNA project. Could be connnected àlso to the Poles and some East European branch exists.
Why don,t you sponsor Big Y as the price is too high for a Bulgarian student, he has tested in fact his grandfather.

-Z255 Panel processing
Z255+
Z16437 C-
Z16434 G-
Z16433 C-
Z16950 T-
Z16431 T-
A10318 G-
A1236 G-
BY2573 A-
A8429 A-
BY2680 A-
A15515 A-
A10639 A-
S23035 G-
A8449 C-
A6525 T-
BY13751 -

Wait a minute. I just saw this post. The Bulgarian is Z255+?!

Kopfjäger
08-16-2017, 01:22 AM
This person has ordered the Z255 panel at YSEQ and has been proven negative for all branches under it. So this not a recent British Isles connection, but something older on the Balkans. It is possible several Serbs from Eastern Serbia are àlso from this branch according to the Serbian DNA project. Could be connnected àlso to the Poles and some East European branch exists.
Why don,t you sponsor Big Y as the price is too high for a Bulgarian student, he has tested in fact his grandfather.

-Z255 Panel processing
Z255+
Z16437 C-
Z16434 G-
Z16433 C-
Z16950 T-
Z16431 T-
A10318 G-
A1236 G-
BY2573 A-
A8429 A-
BY2680 A-
A15515 A-
A10639 A-
S23035 G-
A8449 C-
A6525 T-
BY13751 -

Now, I'm curious if his Polish matches at FTDNA are also Z255+. Theyre 36/37 marker matches with the Bulgarian fellow.

I tried getting in touch with them a few months back, but of course, no response.

Kopfjäger
08-16-2017, 01:27 AM
wouldn't Bulgarians test closer to Greeks and Italians than to eastern Europeans?

I would think so, but this guy's closest yDNA matches are Polish, followed by a handful of Z255+ British/Irish guys.

swid
08-16-2017, 02:11 PM
While it'd be nice to have him get a Big Y (as there's a decent chance he'd break up the Z255 block), for the time being, based on his YSEQ results, there's still a handful of individual branches immediately below the Z255 block that he could test.

Using the Z255 Big Tree (http://ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=16) as a reference, he should test Z16429 and A8450 next.

Kopfjäger
08-16-2017, 11:02 PM
While it'd be nice to have him get a Big Y (as there's a decent chance he'd break up the Z255 block), for the time being, based on his YSEQ results, there's still a handful of individual branches immediately below the Z255 block that he could test.

Using the Z255 Big Tree (http://ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=16) as a reference, he should test Z16429 and A8450 next.

Yeah, and Z16429 is, by far, the most well-represented branch of Z255.

rms2
08-16-2017, 11:08 PM
Yeah, and Z16429 is, by far, the most well-represented branch of Z255.

Yeah, but hold on. Folks are always way too quick on the trigger when it comes to attributing L21 to the Isles.

Kopfjäger
08-17-2017, 12:31 AM
Yeah, but hold on. Folks are always way too quick on the trigger when it comes to attributing L21 to the Isles.

That's true. I think it's more likely that this fellow is negative for all downstream SNPs, but we'll have to get him more testing.

Power77
08-17-2017, 12:40 AM
He may be a German Bulgarian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans_in_Bulgaria). As evon said, many ethnic Germans settled in the Balkans from the Middle Ages onward (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans_of_Yugoslavia).

rms2
08-17-2017, 01:41 AM
He may be a German Bulgarian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans_in_Bulgaria). As evon said, many ethnic Germans settled in the Balkans from the Middle Ages onward (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans_of_Yugoslavia).

Maybe, but that's that next line of defense against a possible eastern L21 after the Isles claim.

Fortunately now we have ancient y-dna now and the possibility of actually finding out where L21 originated.

Power77
08-17-2017, 01:55 AM
Maybe, but that's that next line of defense against a possible eastern L21 after the Isles claim.

Fortunately now we have ancient y-dna now and the possibility of actually finding out where L21 originated.

I doubt that R1b-L21 was ever "Eastern". It most likely originated among Rhenish Bell Beakers. Hence the reason why a Medieval Celto-Germanic origin for its modern distribution in SE Europe is the most parsimonious explanation.

rms2
08-17-2017, 02:05 AM
I doubt that R1b-L21 was ever "Eastern". It most likely originated among Rhenish Bell Beakers. Hence the reason why a Medieval Celto-Germanic origin for its modern distribution in SE Europe is the most parsimonious explanation.

I think it got to Britain from the Lower Rhine but did not originate there. Recall that the Amesbury Archer is thought to have been born and raised in the Alpine region of Central Europe. So, it is likely L21 went from there to the Lower Rhine and thence to Britain. Where L21 was actually born is still an open question and depends on how old L21 actually is.

I'm not saying it came from Bulgaria, but it could have arisen much farther east than is currently believed.

Power77
08-17-2017, 02:25 AM
I think it got to Britain from the Lower Rhine but did not originate there. Recall that the Amesbury Archer is thought to have been born and raised in the Alpine region of Central Europe.

Maybe L21 originated around Switzerland (or Austria) in an Italo-Celtic-speaking environment;)?

rms2
08-17-2017, 02:30 AM
Maybe L21 originated around Switzerland (or Austria) in an Italo-Celtic-speaking environment;)?

Could be, but it might have come from farther east, as well.

Grossvater
08-17-2017, 03:01 AM
A quote from Wikipedia concerning the Galatian people of Asia Minor:

"The Galatians were a Celtic people that dwelt mainly in the north central regions of Asia Minor or Anatolia, in what was known as Galatia, in today's Turkey. In their origin they were a part of the great Celtic migration which invaded Macedon, led by Brennus. The original Celts who settled in Galatia came through Thrace under the leadership of Leotarios and Leonnorios c. 278 BC. These Celts consisted mainly of three tribes, the Tectosages, the Trocmii, and the Tolistobogii, but they were also other minor tribes. They spoke a Celtic language, the Galatian language, which is sparsely attested.

In the 1st century AD, many of them were Christianized by Paul the Apostle's missionary action. One of the Epistles of Paul the Apostle in the Bible (New Testament) is addressed to Galatian Christian communities (Epistle to the Galatians)."

Could our L21 Bulgarian be a descendant of these folks?

Power77
08-17-2017, 03:05 AM
It might have come from farther east, as well.

Do you mean that L21 might have come from Poland or Russia:biggrin1:? Technically, that could leave us with the possibility that this lineage originated among the Proto-Balto-Slavs:lol:! So I guess we should not be too surprised to find some L21 in Slavic speakers such as Serbs and Bulgarians;).

Dubhthach
08-17-2017, 09:11 AM
So other than been Z255+ does he match the 'Irish Sea' STR cluster or is completely off modal? If's he's off modal I'm assuming it's an early branch, so he might not share all of the snp's that are in the Z255 phylogenetic block.

rms2
08-17-2017, 01:00 PM
Do you mean that L21 might have come from Poland or Russia:biggrin1:? Technically, that could leave us with the possibility that this lineage originated among the Proto-Balto-Slavs:lol:! So I guess we should not be too surprised to find some L21 in Slavic speakers such as Serbs and Bulgarians;).

No, that's not what I meant at all. I said "farther east" in reference to the Amesbury Archer probably being born and raised in the Alpine region of Central Europe, meaning L21 could have arisen east of there. I don't know where L21 was born, but it was probably somewhere in Central Europe, maybe even east Central Europe.

As I mentioned before, one of the nice things now is that we don't have to get too excited about stuff like this, because we have ancient y-dna.

Kopfjäger
08-17-2017, 10:18 PM
So other than been Z255+ does he match the 'Irish Sea' STR cluster or is completely off modal? If's he's off modal I'm assuming it's an early branch, so he might not share all of the snp's that are in the Z255 phylogenetic block.

He's off-modal at DYS442. The modal for Z255 is 11, yet he has 12, which is for R1b as a whole.

felif
08-20-2017, 06:02 AM
Hi, there. I am the test holder. The paternal line is from Radomir, not from Pirot. The Serbian guy from Pirot is with quite different STRs and he is not confirmed as L21 by an SNP test, but is predicted L21 only by the markers. So as far as I get it from "Myres et al. 2011" there was no confirmed L21 on the Balkan peninsula? There was an Y-chromosomal examination among 800 Bulgarians, L21 was tested, but not found among them. I suggested it could be explained by Balkan Celts such as Serdi, which came from the Alps around Switzerland to western Bulgaria in the 3th century BC. Another suggestion was interbreeding with a recent traveler. My results came out Z255+, then I ordered an SNP panel, but the panel did not test L159. From what I see in the FT project, besides me in Bulgaria, Z255 is not found outside of northwestern Europe, i.e. it is not found anywhere eastern and southern of Germany and France. Among all possibilities, actually the accurate explanation about the case is, I believe, the crusaders. During the Fourth Crusade more than 10 villages were founded by westerners and still bear their names.

For example some Sofia region villages as Orlandovci was named after the crusader Orlando, while Pancherevo and Pasarel were named after the Polish crusaders Pan Charly and Pan Sarel. Gara Bov, Svoge municipality is founded by French crusador Chevalier de Saint Boeuf. The village of Kondofrey, Radomir municipality was founded and named after the crusador Comte de Frey from Belgium(then Frank Empire). Comte de Frey has taken refugee there after being wounded in a battle against Ivan Asen. However, he was not alone and brought his people into the village according to the mayor.
Comte de Frey(the iron knight) was a servant of Bulgarian tsar Kaloyan and was even appointed a governor of the whole Radomir region. His grave is still in the village.

I did an autosomal test on about 10% of the autosomal SNPs and got 84% Eastern Europe, 4% Irish-Scottish-Welsh, 10% Asia:

Background of the Irish, Scottish and Welsh component:
The western region of the British Isles is populated by peoples descended from the six Celtic nations, three of which had settled in what became Ireland, Scotland, and Wales (the other three were in Brittany, Cornwall, and the Isle of Man). Each of these three nations has spoken some variant of its original Celtic dialect continuously. The Irish, the first people to settle in Ireland about 9,000 years ago, share heritage, culture, and language (Gaelic). They were organized by clan, or kin groups. The Scottish are similarly famous for the clans, but from the time of the Middle Ages have been a composite nation of Picts, Gaels, and Britons. So that the northern population speaks a version of Gaelic, while those in the south speak what came to be called Scots. Their neighbors the Welsh are called such dating back to the Germanic labeling of them as “walhaz,” meaning “foreigner” or “stranger” - the language of Wales is similarly called Welsh. The area was overrun by Anglo-Norman conquerors in the Middle Ages, and English colonization in the 16th-17th centuries changed the ethnic composition of the British Isles altogether, introducing ethnic English. Despite the unification of these countries as part of the United Kingdom (except Northern Ireland) in the present day, the people in each locale take great pride in their independent ethnicities, and accompanying cultures - from the family divisions as clans to the respective alcoholic beverages (Wales has a more English cuisine). The ingathering of several ethnicities in such a small space has facilitated interesting genealogical discoveries as well as mysterious connections to unravel - and for all the different heritages, nearly everyone there now speaks English.

sgdavies@hotmail.com
08-20-2017, 07:06 AM
During the Hallstatt period, there were major expansions into Eastern Europe, as far as the Black Sea, and even into Asia Minor, and South East Poland and North West Ukraine, some of these settlements were called “Galatia”
It’s feasible, that these Galate carried L21.
https://www.google.de/search?q=celtic+expansion+map&rlz=1C9BKJA_enDE757DE757&oq=celtic+expansion+map&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.12744j0j4&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=ucIO2BBBl6cx_M:

CillKenny
08-20-2017, 12:09 PM
Although I am a complete novice it has always struck me as unusual the big run in of only shared SNPs under Z255 and many of the other groups found in the isles. I have often wondered if it was due to the island bias in testing. Big Y testing would be best if there is money in the kitty.

Kopfjäger
08-20-2017, 12:27 PM
Hi, there. I am the test holder. The paternal line is from Radomir, not from Pirot. The Serbian guy from Pirot is with quite different STRs and he is not confirmed as L21 by an SNP test, but is predicted L21 only by the markers. So as far as I get it from "Myres et al. 2011" there was no confirmed L21 on the Balkan peninsula? There was an Y-chromosomal examination among 800 Bulgarians, L21 was tested, but not found among them. I suggested it could be explained by Balkan Celts such as Serdi, which came from the Alps around Switzerland to western Bulgaria in the 3th century BC. Another suggestion was interbreeding with a recent traveler. My results came out Z255+, then I ordered an SNP panel, but the panel did not test L159. From what I see in the FT project, besides me in Bulgaria, Z255 is not found outside of northwestern Europe, i.e. it is not found anywhere eastern and southern of Germany and France. Among all possibilities, actually the accurate explanation about the case is, I believe, the crusaders. During the Fourth Crusade more than 10 villages were founded by westerners and still bear their names.

For example some Sofia region villages as Orlandovci was named after the crusader Orlando, while Pancherevo and Pasarel were named after the Polish crusaders Pan Charly and Pan Sarel. Gara Bov, Svoge municipality is founded by French crusador Chevalier de Saint Boeuf. The village of Kondofrey, Radomir municipality was founded and named after the crusador Comte de Frey from Belgium(then Frank Empire). Comte de Frey has taken refugee there after being wounded in a battle against Ivan Asen. However, he was not alone and brought his people into the village according to the mayor.
Comte de Frey(the iron knight) was a servant of Bulgarian tsar Kaloyan and was even appointed a governor of the whole Radomir region. His grave is still in the village.

I did an autosomal test on about 10% of the autosomal SNPs and got 84% Eastern Europe, 4% Irish-Scottish-Welsh, 10% Asia:

Background of the Irish, Scottish and Welsh component:
The western region of the British Isles is populated by peoples descended from the six Celtic nations, three of which had settled in what became Ireland, Scotland, and Wales (the other three were in Brittany, Cornwall, and the Isle of Man). Each of these three nations has spoken some variant of its original Celtic dialect continuously. The Irish, the first people to settle in Ireland about 9,000 years ago, share heritage, culture, and language (Gaelic). They were organized by clan, or kin groups. The Scottish are similarly famous for the clans, but from the time of the Middle Ages have been a composite nation of Picts, Gaels, and Britons. So that the northern population speaks a version of Gaelic, while those in the south speak what came to be called Scots. Their neighbors the Welsh are called such dating back to the Germanic labeling of them as “walhaz,” meaning “foreigner” or “stranger” - the language of Wales is similarly called Welsh. The area was overrun by Anglo-Norman conquerors in the Middle Ages, and English colonization in the 16th-17th centuries changed the ethnic composition of the British Isles altogether, introducing ethnic English. Despite the unification of these countries as part of the United Kingdom (except Northern Ireland) in the present day, the people in each locale take great pride in their independent ethnicities, and accompanying cultures - from the family divisions as clans to the respective alcoholic beverages (Wales has a more English cuisine). The ingathering of several ethnicities in such a small space has facilitated interesting genealogical discoveries as well as mysterious connections to unravel - and for all the different heritages, nearly everyone there now speaks English.

Hi, felif. That is an interesting scenario about crusaders potentially being the source of your Z255. Speaking of Polish crusaders, two of this kit's closest matches have Polish surnames. Have you tried getting in touch with them?

The other matches are British/Irish Z255 folks, but these guys are positive for downstream SNPs. It's possible you come from an as yet undiscovered branch of Z255.

felif
08-20-2017, 02:43 PM
I tried getting in touch, but he doesn't answer. As far as I remember it says that he has maternal line - Dutch, paternal line - his name without stating nationality. So it is possible for him to be Jewish, although I only have Bulgarian known ancestors. As far as I see Z255 is not yet found in Poland or Halstatt(Austria and Switzerland), but only on countries with coast on the North Sea, Ireland and Bulgaria.

My autosomal results in MyHeritage say 84% Eastern Europe, 4% Irish-Scottish-Welsh, 10% Asia:

postimg.org/image/6o9k199yt/

How reliable are they?

evon
08-20-2017, 04:06 PM
I tried getting in touch, but he doesn't answer. As far as I remember it says that he has maternal line - Dutch, paternal line - his name without stating nationality. So it is possible for him to be Jewish, although I only have Bulgarian known ancestors. As far as I see Z255 is not yet found in Poland or Halstatt(Austria and Switzerland), but only on countries with coast on the North Sea, Ireland and Bulgaria.

My autosomal results in MyHeritage say 84% Eastern Europe, 4% Irish-Scottish-Welsh, 10% Asia:

postimg.org/image/6o9k199yt/

How reliable are they?

Have you uploaded your Myheritage data file to Gedmatch?

Kopfjäger
08-20-2017, 04:16 PM
I tried getting in touch, but he doesn't answer. As far as I remember it says that he has maternal line - Dutch, paternal line - his name without stating nationality. So it is possible for him to be Jewish, although I only have Bulgarian known ancestors. As far as I see Z255 is not yet found in Poland or Halstatt(Austria and Switzerland), but only on countries with coast on the North Sea, Ireland and Bulgaria.

My autosomal results in MyHeritage say 84% Eastern Europe, 4% Irish-Scottish-Welsh, 10% Asia:

postimg.org/image/6o9k199yt/

How reliable are they?

I've also tried reaching out to them, surname Paske, with the ancestral surname apparently being Paszkewicz (this is listed as the ancestral paternal surname). It makes a lot more sense if you are closely related to individuals of Polish ancestry, due to Bulgaria's proximity to Poland. And as we mentioned earlier, your value of '12' on DYS448 is ancestral to the modal Z255 value of 11, which may designate an older branch further east.

Your autosomal results are definitely reliable, but the proportion of DNA that is classified as Irish-Scottish-Welsh may just be a result of similarities shared among all Europeans. For example, 23andMe states that I have a certain amount of German and French, yet this may be standard among all people of European descent.

felif
08-20-2017, 04:37 PM
Have you uploaded your Myheritage data file to Gedmatch?

yes .

felif
08-20-2017, 04:47 PM
I've also tried reaching out to them, surname Paske, with the ancestral surname apparently being Paszkewicz (this is listed as the ancestral paternal surname). It makes a lot more sense if you are closely related to individuals of Polish ancestry, due to Bulgaria's proximity to Poland. And as we mentioned earlier, your value of '12' on DYS448 is ancestral to the modal Z255 value of 11, which may designate an older branch further east.

Your autosomal results are definitely reliable, but the proportion of DNA that is classified as Irish-Scottish-Welsh may just be a result of similarities shared among all Europeans. For example, 23andMe states that I have a certain amount of German and French, yet this may be standard among all people of European descent.
My DYS448 is 18. You probably mean another DYS? I am in the column of L159-positive in the Z255 project. But YSEQ didn't show me whether the sample is L159 positive. I asked in the project am I L159 positive. And I got a negative answer. Yet I am in the column of L159 positive. Am I in fact L159 positive?

jdean
08-20-2017, 05:08 PM
My DYS448 is 18. You probably mean another DYS? I am in the column of L159-positive in the Z255 project. But YSEQ didn't show me whether the sample is L159 positive. I asked in the project am I L159 positive. And I got a negative answer. Yet I am in the column of L159 positive. Am I in fact L159 positive?

Sounds like a prediction, unfortunately it's practically impossible to see your SNP test results via FTDNA now due to their barmy new SNP page.

What SNP products did you order from FTDNA & YSEQ ?

evon
08-20-2017, 05:11 PM
yes .

Have you tried running a few admixture calculators and comparing yourself to the Bulgarian average? Dodecad, Eurogenes and MDLP?

Kopfjäger
08-20-2017, 06:07 PM
My DYS448 is 18. You probably mean another DYS? I am in the column of L159-positive in the Z255 project. But YSEQ didn't show me whether the sample is L159 positive. I asked in the project am I L159 positive. And I got a negative answer. Yet I am in the column of L159 positive. Am I in fact L159 positive?

You're right, it's DYS442; sorry for the confusion! And I placed your sample in the Z255+ (Not yet tested for downstream SNPs) category for more clarity. This is merely a staging area until you get a result on L159.2. Honestly, I think you will test positive for L159.2, as those who usually have a value of '19' on DYS448 come back as L159.2-. Ever since Z255 was discovered, L159.2 is not considered as novel, especially since it is classified as between an STR and a SNP. In other words, a result on L159.2 doesn't really mean anything.

However, it would be ideal to confirm if you are Z16429-, as this would mean you are negative for all known major branches of Z255.

felif
08-20-2017, 06:15 PM
You're right, it's DYS442; sorry for the confusion! And I placed your sample in the Z255+ (Not yet tested for downstream SNPs) category for more clarity. This is merely a staging area until you get a result on L159.2. Honestly, I think you will test positive for L159.2, as those who usually have a value of '19' on DYS448 come back as L159.2-. Ever since Z255 was discovered, L159.2 is not considered as novel, especially since it is classified as between an STR and a SNP. In other words, a result on L159.2 doesn't really mean anything.

However, it would be ideal to confirm if you are Z16429-, as this would mean you are negative for all known major branches of Z255.

L159 have formed 1650ybp and has the same tmrca. Such result would mean it can't be connected to Slavic or Celtic migrations in Bulgaria in Antiquity. It should be medieval westerners or more recent.

felif
08-20-2017, 06:17 PM
Sounds like a prediction, unfortunately it's practically impossible to see your SNP test results via FTDNA now due to their barmy new SNP page.

What SNP products did you order from FTDNA & YSEQ ?

Only Z255 YSEQ Pack. Z255+, all downstream negative, but L159 was not tested

felif
08-20-2017, 06:24 PM
Have you tried running a few admixture calculators and comparing yourself to the Bulgarian average? Dodecad, Eurogenes and MDLP?

That's the last version of Eurogenes calculator in Gedmatch, mapping similiarity of me and grandpas regional cateogries:

dnagenealogy-bg.org/mybb/attachment.php?aid=58
dnagenealogy-bg.org/mybb/attachment.php?aid=67

evon
08-20-2017, 07:14 PM
That's the last version of Eurogenes calculator in Gedmatch, mapping similiarity of me and grandpas regional cateogries:

dnagenealogy-bg.org/mybb/attachment.php?aid=58
dnagenealogy-bg.org/mybb/attachment.php?aid=67

I cannot see the pictures..

felif
08-20-2017, 07:27 PM
I cannot see the pictures..

s29.postimg.org/j2ymw6dhz/eurogenes.jpg
s29.postimg.org/gzo7oidp3/eurogenes2.jpg

felif
10-09-2017, 03:35 PM
New results from Living DNA:

Europe South 48%
- Aegean and Albania 34%
- North Italy 13%
- Tuscany 1%

Europe East 39%
- East Balkans 13%
- West Balkans 8%
- Finland and West Russia 6%
- Pannonia 6%
- Northeast Europe 5%
- Baltics 2%

Great Britain and Ireland 8-9%
- England and Wales 8-9%

Europe North and West 3%
- Germanic 3% (Germany, Benelux, Denmark)

Near East 1%
- Arabia 1%

postimg.org/image/20mtxx93az/

Kopfjäger
10-09-2017, 05:23 PM
New results from Living DNA:

Europe South 48%
- Aegean and Albania 34%
- North Italy 13%
- Tuscany 1%

Europe East 39%
- East Balkans 13%
- West Balkans 8%
- Finland and West Russia 6%
- Pannonia 6%
- Northeast Europe 5%
- Baltics 2%

Great Britain and Ireland 8-9%
- England and Wales 8-9%

Europe North and West 3%
- Germanic 3% (Germany, Benelux, Denmark)

Near East 1%
- Arabia 1%

postimg.org/image/20mtxx93az/

Thank you, Felif. I'm curious what the stats are for someone else with the same background as you, at least for comparison.

felif
10-10-2017, 09:17 AM
I searched through the web and this website seems to be the only one providing such results, please see plenty of results shared on this tread: anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9647-Living-DNA-Results

Keep in mind that Living DNA as all the rest tests 700 000 SNPs out of about 10 million, or only about 10% of the total genome.

felif
10-10-2017, 09:33 AM
As for relatives of the Bulgarian L21 the result above is of the grandfather, who is L21, the following is of the grandson:

Europe East 49%
- East Balkans 18%
- Pannonia 14%
- Northeast Europe 8%
- West Balkans 4%
- Baltics 3%
- Mordovia 3%

Europe South 36%
- Italy South 12%
- Aegean 12%
- Italy North 6%
- Iberian 5%
- Tuscany 2%

Europe North and West 8%
- Germanic 3%
- France 3%
- Scandinavia 1%

Great Britain and Ireland 3%
- England and Wales 3%

Near East 2%
- North Turkey 1%
- Kurdish 1%

Central Asia 1%
- Northwest Caucasus 1%

As for any other Bulgarians, only one more has publicly shared results and these are the results of a random Bulgarian from Burgas area: dnagenealogy-bg.org/mybb/showthread.php?tid=83&pid=11790#pid11790
-East Europe
East Balkans- 22.4%
West Balkans - 11%
Pannonia - 10.1%
Northeast Europe - 5.6%
Mordovia - 3%
Baltics- 2.4%

-South Europe
South Italy-12.9%
Tuscany-10.9%
North Italy-3.4%
Aegean-3.1%

-West Europe
Germanic-8.4%

-Asia
Pastun-4.5%
Kurdish-2.3%

The last Bulgarian obviously has some differences in West European component, which is only 8.4% Germanic. We suggested it is because of historic presence of Goths in Burgas area. The last result above is from Burgas area, by Y chromosme R1b-U106 in Burgas is 4.4%, while in the rest of Bulgaria between 0 and 1.6%: researchgate.net/profile/Viola_Grugni/publication/236040191/figure/fig4/AS:341154500497411@1458348979177/Figure-2-Phylogenetic-relationships-and-percent-frequencies-of-Y-chromosome-haplogroups.png