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Claudio
07-09-2017, 04:40 PM
Hi all 👋
Question 🤔
Regarding the Middle Eastern and European origins of both the male and female lines of Ashkenazi Jews I have seen many articles,theories and debates..
But putting that debate aside how do "full" Ashkenazi Jews compare to typical North,Central and South Italians and sicilians in regard to simply comparing there levels of middle eastern content on Gedmatch?
Higher?
Lower?
🤔

Agamemnon
07-09-2017, 06:22 PM
Ashkenazi Jews tend to have more Near Eastern ancestry than Italians in general, the closest to them are Sicilians, Calabrese, other South Italians and Maltese (admittedly because their genetic past is similar to that of Western Jews).

Sikeliot
07-09-2017, 06:25 PM
Ashkenazim are almost identical in their ratio of Euro to MENA as Sicilians/Calabrese, in far southern Italy, as well as to Cretans. All of these groups are very similar to one another.

In particular they are closest to Sicilians from Messina and the west-central region (Palermo, Agrigento, Caltanissetta). Less so to Ragusa, Syracuse, Enna, or Trapani where they seem to have more Greek influences from the mainland.

alexfritz
07-09-2017, 06:44 PM
https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1040&context=humbiol_preprints

might be helpful;
dont skip the supp.info;

Sikeliot
07-09-2017, 07:33 PM
Here are the relevant pieces of information:

"In brief, judging from the similarity of the membership proportion distributions (Figure 4), ADMIXTURE demonstrates the connection of Ashkenazi, North African, and Sephardi Jews, with the most similar non-Jewish populations to Ashkenazi Jews being Mediterranean Europeans from Italy (Sicily, Abruzzo, Tuscany), Greece and Cyprus. When subtracting the k5 component, which perhaps originates in Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews from admixture with European hosts, the best matches for membership patterns of the Ashkenazi Jews shift to the Levant: Cypriots, Druze, Lebanese, and Samaritans."

"The spatial ancestry analysis confirms and sharpens the lack of evidence for the Khazar hypothesis observed in PCA, placing the Ashkenazi Jewish sample in close proximity to Italian Jews, North African Jews, Sephardi Jews, and Mediterranean non-Jewish populations such as Cypriots and Italians."

"In the higher-magnification visualization, Ashkenazi Jews form a linear cluster in the latitudinal dimension and are closest to Italian Jews, North African Jews, Sephardi Jews, Cypriots, and Sicilians. "

By the PCA plot, Sicily (ItS) and Cyprus plot together and the Ashkenazim are actually plotting right with other Jews, and the Greeks up near Tuscans and Spaniards. So Ashkenazim clearly fall into a heavily Middle Eastern cluster.

http://i.imgur.com/Bl1wsmI.png


Admixture:

http://i.imgur.com/JLNreHK.png



Closest populations:

http://i.imgur.com/HjaGncc.png

Sikeliot
07-09-2017, 10:36 PM
Also worth noting, according to above, Eastern and Western Jews are both closer to Sicilians than to one another. I wonder why this is. Western Ashkenazim seem more Levant shifted, and eastern Ashkenazim seem more Italian shifted (Abruzzo is higher on the list for eastern Ashkenazim).

Rach_27
07-09-2017, 11:24 PM
I am half Palestinian and half British and consistently get Sicilian and Southern Italian in my oracle results at a distance of 0.000... It seems like maybe this is common for mixed Levantine populations such as the Ashkenazi

Agamemnon
07-09-2017, 11:58 PM
I am half Palestinian and half British and consistently get Sicilian and Southern Italian in my oracle results at a distance of 0.000... It seems like maybe this is common for mixed Levantine populations such as the Ashkenazi

The thing is, the European ancestry of Western Jews (Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Italian Jews, Romaniote Jews, North African Jews, Syrian Jews, etc) is mainly Southern European (Italian or Greek), with minor local admixture (Eastern European ancestry for Ashkenazim, though this varies with each individual, some have more, some have less). So for you to end up close to Sicilians, your Palestinian side needs to be drawn toward the East Mediterranean continuum and should basically be close to Lebanese Christians and Druze, if your Palestinian side is Christian this is normal (if not, then your ancestors probably came from the more northerly parts of Israel, from what used to be Phoenician territory). Either that or your British side is shifted towards mainland Europe (which is rare though not impossible).

Rach_27
07-10-2017, 12:26 AM
The thing is, the European ancestry of Western Jews (Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Italian Jews, Romaniote Jews, North African Jews, Syrian Jews, etc) is mainly Southern European (Italian or Greek), with minor local admixture (Eastern European ancestry for Ashkenazim, though this varies with each individual, some have more, some have less). So for you to end up close to Sicilians, your Palestinian side needs to be drawn toward the East Mediterranean continuum and should basically be close to Lebanese Christians and Druze, if your Palestinian side is Christian this is normal (if not, then your ancestors probably came from the more northerly parts of Israel, from what used to be Phoenician territory). Either that or your British side is shifted towards mainland Europe (which is rare though not impossible).

Ah, that makes sense based on my oracle results which show Druze, Sicilian, etc. Yep, my Palestinian side is Christian and my maternal side is British. These are my closest oracle results below (the only population that I expected to receive in the list was Samaritan because my Dad's paternal side were from Nablus):

Dodecad World 9:

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Ashkenazi + S_Italian + S_Italian + Ukranians @ 0.000000
2 Greek + Sicilian + Sephardic_Jews + Ukranians @ 0.000000
3 Greek + S_Italian_Sicilian + Sephardic_Jews + Ukranians @ 0.000000
4 Swedish + Sicilian + Druze + TSI30 @ 0.000000
5 Swedish + Sicilian + Samaritians + Bulgarians @ 0.000000
6 Sicilian + Norwegian + Druze + Tuscan @ 0.000000
7 Sicilian + Norwegian + Druze + TSI30 @ 0.000000
8 Sicilian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Bulgarian + Bulgarian @ 0.000000
9 Sicilian + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + S_Italian @ 0.000000
10 Norwegian + Druze + Cypriots + Cataluna @ 0.000000
11 S_Italian + S_Italian + S_Italian + Ukranians @ 0.000000
12 Ashkenazi + Georgians + Aragon + Andalucia @ 0.252237
13 Ashkenazy_Jews + Georgia_Jews + Hungarians + Spaniards @ 0.255246
14 Swedish + Sicilian + Druze + Tuscan @ 0.266056
15 Norwegian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Druze + TSI30 @ 0.266423
16 Norwegian + Druze + TSI30 + Ashkenazy_Jews @ 0.266523
17 Ashkenazi + Spanish + Georgians + Castilla_Y_Leon @ 0.267262
18 Polish + Georgia_Jews + Sephardic_Jews + Andalucia @ 0.268536
19 Greek + Ashkenazy_Jews + Sephardic_Jews + Ukranians @ 0.275318
20 Druze + French + Hungarians + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.280071

Dodecad K7B:

1 Andalucia + Assyrian + Norwegian + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.000000
2 Aragon + Georgia_Jews + Morocco_Jews + Ukranians @ 0.000000
3 Assyrian + Baleares + Norwegian + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.000000
4 Assyrian + Murcia + Norwegian + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.000000
5 Belorussian + Cantabria + Cypriots + Druze @ 0.000000
6 Belorussian + Castilla_La_Mancha + Iraq_Jews + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.000000
7 Belorussian + Cypriots + Druze + Valencia @ 0.000000
8 Bulgarians + Samaritians + Sicilian + Swedish @ 0.000000
9 Cypriots + Cypriots + Extremadura + Mixed_Slav @ 0.000000
10 Druze + North_Italian + Sicilian + Ukranians @ 0.000000
11 Druze + Norwegian + O_Italian + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 0.000000
12 Georgia_Jews + Murcia + Norwegian + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.000000
13 Romanians + Samaritians + Sicilian + Swedish @ 0.000000
14 Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Sicilian + Sicilian @ 0.251332
15 Belorussian + Cypriots + O_Italian + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.255405
16 Belorussian + Iraq_Jews + Sephardic_Jews + Spanish @ 0.267311
17 Castilla_La_Mancha + Cypriots + Druze + Lithuanian @ 0.269936
18 Druze + Lithuanian + North_Italian + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.274872
19 Bulgarians + S_Italian_Sicilian + Samaritians + Swedish @ 0.276937
20 Druze + North_Italian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Ukranians @ 0.292633

My autosomal results don't reflect my known ancestry of British and Palestinian either which makes me think maybe British + Levantine DNA results in Mediterranean populations? Sorry if that is a very amateur proposition; I'm new to all of this. But maybe it is the same for the Ashkenazi population? I would love to know so I can finally figure out whether I do actually have Italian ancestry or not... 174691747017471

Agamemnon
07-10-2017, 12:30 AM
Ah, that makes sense based on my oracle results which show Druze, Sicilian, etc. Yep, my Palestinian side is Christian and my maternal side is British. These are my closest oracle results below (the only population that I expected to receive in the list was Samaritan because my Dad's paternal side were from Nablus):

Dodecad World 9:

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Ashkenazi + S_Italian + S_Italian + Ukranians @ 0.000000
2 Greek + Sicilian + Sephardic_Jews + Ukranians @ 0.000000
3 Greek + S_Italian_Sicilian + Sephardic_Jews + Ukranians @ 0.000000
4 Swedish + Sicilian + Druze + TSI30 @ 0.000000
5 Swedish + Sicilian + Samaritians + Bulgarians @ 0.000000
6 Sicilian + Norwegian + Druze + Tuscan @ 0.000000
7 Sicilian + Norwegian + Druze + TSI30 @ 0.000000
8 Sicilian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Bulgarian + Bulgarian @ 0.000000
9 Sicilian + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + S_Italian @ 0.000000
10 Norwegian + Druze + Cypriots + Cataluna @ 0.000000
11 S_Italian + S_Italian + S_Italian + Ukranians @ 0.000000
12 Ashkenazi + Georgians + Aragon + Andalucia @ 0.252237
13 Ashkenazy_Jews + Georgia_Jews + Hungarians + Spaniards @ 0.255246
14 Swedish + Sicilian + Druze + Tuscan @ 0.266056
15 Norwegian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Druze + TSI30 @ 0.266423
16 Norwegian + Druze + TSI30 + Ashkenazy_Jews @ 0.266523
17 Ashkenazi + Spanish + Georgians + Castilla_Y_Leon @ 0.267262
18 Polish + Georgia_Jews + Sephardic_Jews + Andalucia @ 0.268536
19 Greek + Ashkenazy_Jews + Sephardic_Jews + Ukranians @ 0.275318
20 Druze + French + Hungarians + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.280071

Dodecad K7B:

1 Andalucia + Assyrian + Norwegian + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.000000
2 Aragon + Georgia_Jews + Morocco_Jews + Ukranians @ 0.000000
3 Assyrian + Baleares + Norwegian + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.000000
4 Assyrian + Murcia + Norwegian + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.000000
5 Belorussian + Cantabria + Cypriots + Druze @ 0.000000
6 Belorussian + Castilla_La_Mancha + Iraq_Jews + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.000000
7 Belorussian + Cypriots + Druze + Valencia @ 0.000000
8 Bulgarians + Samaritians + Sicilian + Swedish @ 0.000000
9 Cypriots + Cypriots + Extremadura + Mixed_Slav @ 0.000000
10 Druze + North_Italian + Sicilian + Ukranians @ 0.000000
11 Druze + Norwegian + O_Italian + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 0.000000
12 Georgia_Jews + Murcia + Norwegian + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.000000
13 Romanians + Samaritians + Sicilian + Swedish @ 0.000000
14 Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Sicilian + Sicilian @ 0.251332
15 Belorussian + Cypriots + O_Italian + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.255405
16 Belorussian + Iraq_Jews + Sephardic_Jews + Spanish @ 0.267311
17 Castilla_La_Mancha + Cypriots + Druze + Lithuanian @ 0.269936
18 Druze + Lithuanian + North_Italian + Sephardic_Jews @ 0.274872
19 Bulgarians + S_Italian_Sicilian + Samaritians + Swedish @ 0.276937
20 Druze + North_Italian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Ukranians @ 0.292633

My autosomal results don't reflect my known ancestry of British and Palestinian either which makes me think maybe British + Levantine DNA results in Mediterranean populations? Sorry if that is a very amateur proposition; I'm new to all of this. But maybe it is the same for the Ashkenazi population? I would love to know so I can finally figure out whether I do actually have Italian ancestry or not... 174691747017471

So your Palestinian side is from Shekhem, interesting... Indeed, it's likely you have a lot of Samaritan ancestry.
What do you get on Eurogenes K13, K15 as well as on MDLP K23b, PuntDNAL K15 and K13 Global? It'd be nice if you could post the Admix Results, the "Single Population Sharing" and the Mixed Modes altogether for each test.

Sikeliot
07-10-2017, 12:42 AM
Rach_27, I don't think you have Italian ancestry, I think it is more that Sicilians and southern Italians have Levantine ancestry, in particular they are close to ethnic minorities of the Middle East such as Christian Levantines, Assyrians, Armenians, and Copts when compared to the Muslim populations who have more African and Arabian ancestry.

Rach_27
07-10-2017, 01:59 AM
So your Palestinian side is from Shekhem, interesting... Indeed, it's likely you have a lot of Samaritan ancestry.
What do you get on Eurogenes K13, K15 as well as on MDLP K23b, PuntDNAL K15 and K13 Global? It'd be nice if you could post the Admix Results, the "Single Population Sharing" and the Mixed Modes altogether for each test.

Sure. K13 Global - is that the Near East K13? I hope I posted the right ones:

K 13
Population
North_Atlantic 30.03
Baltic 9.20
West_Med 13.43
West_Asian 12.34
East_Med 26.64
Red_Sea 5.28
South_Asian 0.12
East_Asian 0.56
Siberian 1.02
Amerindian 0.13
Oceanian 0.32
Northeast_African 0.93
Sub-Saharan -

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 9.63
2 Tuscan 10.44
3 West_Sicilian 11.77
4 Greek_Thessaly 13.34
5 North_Italian 14.06
6 Central_Greek 14.09
7 East_Sicilian 14.18
8 Ashkenazi 15.33
9 South_Italian 15.49
10 Romanian 16.83
11 Bulgarian 16.83
12 Sephardic_Jewish 17.94
13 Italian_Jewish 18.63
14 Portuguese 19.26
15 Serbian 19.27
16 Spanish_Extremadura 19.62
17 Spanish_Murcia 19.94
18 Algerian_Jewish 20.53
19 Spanish_Galicia 20.91
20 Spanish_Cataluna 20.98

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.2% Lebanese_Druze + 49.8% Southwest_English @ 3.13
2 51% Southeast_English + 49% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.81
3 51.4% Lebanese_Druze + 48.6% West_Scottish @ 3.87
4 59.7% French + 40.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.95
5 50.2% West_Scottish + 49.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.22
6 51.4% Southwest_English + 48.6% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.29
7 50.7% Lebanese_Druze + 49.3% Orcadian @ 4.29
8 52.7% Southeast_English + 47.3% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.3
9 64.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 35.8% Danish @ 4.33
10 51.3% Lebanese_Druze + 48.7% Irish @ 4.34
11 64.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 35.7% North_Dutch @ 4.4
12 65.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 34.1% Norwegian @ 4.42
13 55.7% South_Dutch + 44.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.48
14 65.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 34.9% West_Scottish @ 4.49
15 65% Sephardic_Jewish + 35% Irish @ 4.56
16 63% Sephardic_Jewish + 37% North_German @ 4.62
17 50.9% Orcadian + 49.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.69
18 64.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 35.5% Orcadian @ 4.7
19 60.1% Tunisian_Jewish + 39.9% West_Scottish @ 4.73
20 50.4% Irish + 49.6% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.76

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++
1 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.494824
2 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 3.832962
3 French + Lebanese_Druze + Tunisian_Jewish + West_Scottish @ 3.873498
4 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.893083
5 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.904009
6 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.993572
7 French_Basque + Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Norwegian @ 4.047233
8 French + Irish + Lebanese_Druze + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.048634
9 French + Lebanese_Druze + Sephardic_Jewish + West_Scottish @ 4.059067
10 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 4.105963
11 Lebanese_Druze + Tunisian_Jewish + West_German + West_Scottish @ 4.111622
12 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 4.115529
13 Lebanese_Druze + Samaritan + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 4.147234
14 Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + Tunisian_Jewish + West_German @ 4.163744
15 Irish + Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English @ 4.166576
16 Lebanese_Druze + Samaritan + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 4.175958
17 Lebanese_Druze + South_Dutch + Tunisian_Jewish + West_Scottish @ 4.180357
18 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 4.190624
19 French + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.197893
20 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 4.205178

K15
Population
North_Sea 19.19
Atlantic 21.15
Baltic 3.22
Eastern_Euro 2.39
West_Med 9.64
West_Asian 12.27
East_Med 24.61
Red_Sea 4.89
South_Asian 0.09
Southeast_Asian 0.22
Siberian 0.99
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.18
Northeast_African 1.09
Sub-Saharan -

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 9.95
2 Tuscan 11.27
3 West_Sicilian 11.57
4 East_Sicilian 13.36
5 Central_Greek 13.55
6 Ashkenazi 13.92
7 Greek_Thessaly 14.25
8 North_Italian 14.74
9 South_Italian 14.81
10 Greek 15.01
11 Italian_Jewish 16.51
12 Bulgarian 17
13 Romanian 17.01
14 Sephardic_Jewish 17.25
15 Serbian 18.13
16 Spanish_Murcia 18.8
17 Algerian_Jewish 18.8
18 Spanish_Extremadura 18.92
19 Portuguese 19.2
20 Spanish_Cataluna 19.94

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.3% Southeast_English + 46.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.05
2 52.9% Southwest_English + 47.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.08
3 52.8% Southeast_English + 47.2% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.14
4 51.8% Irish + 48.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.22
5 59.2% Tunisian_Jewish + 40.8% Orcadian @ 5.23
6 51.4% West_Scottish + 48.6% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.28
7 64% Sephardic_Jewish + 36% Orcadian @ 5.31
8 51.5% Lebanese_Muslim + 48.5% Southeast_English @ 5.45
9 51.4% Irish + 48.6% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.46
10 58.8% Tunisian_Jewish + 41.2% West_Scottish @ 5.46
11 50.9% Orcadian + 49.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.48
12 60.4% French + 39.6% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.5
13 63.6% Sephardic_Jewish + 36.4% West_Scottish @ 5.53
14 53.4% Southwest_English + 46.6% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.53
15 54.2% Cyprian + 45.8% West_Scottish @ 5.59
16 58.4% Tunisian_Jewish + 41.6% Irish @ 5.59
17 54.7% Cyprian + 45.3% Orcadian @ 5.61
18 51% West_Scottish + 49% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.62
19 63.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 36.7% Irish @ 5.67
20 57% Tunisian_Jewish + 43% Southeast_English @ 5.68

MDLP K23B
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 29.92
2 European_Early_Farmers 19.5
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 19.04
4 Near_East 12.84
5 South_Central_Asian 7.47
6 North_African 6.48
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.45
8 Tungus-Altaic 1.15
9 East_African 0.75
10 Archaic_Human 0.61
11 Amerindian 0.48
12 South_East_Asian 0.31

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian_West ( ) 9.7
2 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 11.43
3 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 11.58
4 Maltese ( ) 11.67
5 Slovenian ( ) 11.9
6 Serb_Serbia ( ) 11.96
7 Hungarian ( ) 12
8 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 12.01
9 Montenegrian ( ) 12.08
10 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 12.09
11 Austrian ( ) 12.45
12 Italian_North ( ) 12.56
13 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 12.69
14 Serb_BH ( ) 12.71
15 Croat ( ) 12.74
16 Czech ( ) 12.78
17 Bosnian ( ) 12.87
18 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 12.94
19 Bulgarian ( ) 13.08
20 Libyan_Jew ( ) 13.19


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.2% North_European ( ) + 49.8% Samaritian ( ) @ 2.2
2 51.9% English ( ) + 48.1% Samaritian ( ) @ 2.44
3 52% Samaritian ( ) + 48% CEU ( ) @ 2.71
4 50.4% Norwegian_East ( ) + 49.6% Samaritian ( ) @ 2.72
5 52.3% Lebanese ( ) + 47.7% North_European ( ) @ 2.79
6 52.8% Samaritian ( ) + 47.2% Norwegian_West ( ) @ 2.82
7 54.5% Lebanese ( ) + 45.5% CEU ( ) @ 2.86
8 54.9% Lebanese ( ) + 45.1% Welsh ( ) @ 2.87
9 52.4% Samaritian ( ) + 47.6% Welsh ( ) @ 2.93
10 52.8% Samaritian ( ) + 47.2% British ( ) @ 3.01
11 50.5% Lebanese ( ) + 49.5% English ( ) @ 3.04
12 53.7% Belgian ( ) + 46.3% Samaritian ( ) @ 3.06
13 51.6% Samaritian ( ) + 48.4% English_Cornwall_GBR ( ) @ 3.11
14 55.5% Samaritian ( ) + 44.5% Orcadian ( ) @ 3.11
15 57.9% Lebanese ( ) + 42.1% Orcadian ( ) @ 3.11
16 50.6% Samaritian ( ) + 49.4% English_Kent_GBR ( ) @ 3.12
17 55.3% Lebanese ( ) + 44.7% British ( ) @ 3.13
18 53.3% Samaritian ( ) + 46.7% Icelandic ( ) @ 3.15
19 54.3% Samaritian ( ) + 45.7% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR ( ) @ 3.17
20 53% Lebanese ( ) + 47% English_Kent_GBR ( ) @ 3.21


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Lebanese + Russian-North-West + Samaritian + Spanish_Aragon_IBS @ 1.983448
2 Lebanese + Russian-North-West + Samaritian + Spanish_Cantabria_IBS @ 2.024403
3 Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Sorb + Spanish_Valencia_IBS @ 2.040226
4 Lebanese + Russian-North-West + Samaritian + Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha_IBS @ 2.047469
5 Kashub + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS @ 2.110430
6 Lebanese + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Sorb + Spanish_Valencia_IBS @ 2.119356
7 Kashub + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Spanish_Cataluna_IBS @ 2.128937
8 Lebanese + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Sorb + Spanish_Andalucia_IBS @ 2.133172
9 Lebanese + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Sorb + Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha_IBS @ 2.136487
10 Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Russian-North-West + Samaritian + Spanish_Valencia_IBS @ 2.136502
11 Kashub + Lebanese + Samaritian + Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS @ 2.138213
12 Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Sorb + Spanish_Cataluna_IBS @ 2.147467
13 Russian-North-West + Samaritian + Samaritian + Spanish_Cantabria_IBS @ 2.147607
14 Kashub + Lebanese + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS @ 2.148442
15 Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Spanish_Cantabria_IBS + Ukrainian_East @ 2.151318
16 Belarusian-East + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Spanish_Cantabria_IBS @ 2.154686
17 Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Sorb + Spanish_Cantabria_IBS @ 2.162727
18 Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Sorb + Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS @ 2.164989
19 Lebanese + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Sorb + Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS @ 2.178184
20 Russian-North-West + Samaritian + Spanish_Extremadura_IBS + Syrian_Jew @ 2.184411

PuntDNAL K15

Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 34.01
2 NE_European 29.16
3 Caucasian 20.9
4 SW_Asian 9.67
5 Horn_Of_Africa 4.59
6 E_Asian 0.82
7 Beringian 0.42
8 Siberian 0.37
9 Oceanian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 4.96
2 Greek_Central 5.32
3 Albanian 6.05
4 Tuscan 6.67
5 Ashkenazy_Jew 9.56
6 Montenegrin 10.34
7 Italian 10.63
8 Sicilian 11.31
9 Bulgarian 11.6
10 Romanian 12.46
11 Macedonian 13.29
12 Sephardic_Jew 13.41
13 Bosnian 15.06
14 Brazilian 16.26
15 Portuguese 17.6
16 Spaniard 18.73
17 Serbian 19.32
18 French 22.3
19 Croatian 24.37
20 South_German 24.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.9% Montenegrin + 28.1% Palestinian @ 1.74
2 71.4% Montenegrin + 28.6% Lebanese @ 1.82
3 69.5% Bulgarian + 30.5% Palestinian @ 1.83
4 67.9% Romanian + 32.1% Palestinian @ 1.88
5 73.3% Montenegrin + 26.7% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.94
6 68.2% Macedonian + 31.8% Samaritian @ 1.96
7 73.4% Montenegrin + 26.6% Syrian @ 2.03
8 54% French + 46% Palestinian @ 2.14
9 73.6% Montenegrin + 26.4% Jordanian @ 2.16
10 53.6% South_German + 46.4% Samaritian @ 2.18
11 71.2% Bulgarian + 28.8% Samaritian @ 2.19
12 75.9% Sephardic_Jew + 24.1% Belarusian @ 2.21
13 77.5% Sephardic_Jew + 22.5% Lithuanian @ 2.23
14 50.4% Irish + 49.6% Samaritian @ 2.29
15 75.3% Sephardic_Jew + 24.7% Mordovian @ 2.29
16 59.5% Serbian + 40.5% Samaritian @ 2.31
17 52.8% Utahn_White + 47.2% Samaritian @ 2.33
18 51.6% Samaritian + 48.4% North_German @ 2.36
19 88.5% Greek_Thessaly + 11.5% Yemenite_Jew @ 2.36
20 50.1% Samaritian + 49.9% English @ 2.38

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++
1 Irish + Basque + Balkar + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.352035
2 Austrian + Basque + Balkar + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.376885
3 Polish + Albanian + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.398664
4 Polish + Tuscan + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.432365
5 Belarusian + Tuscan + Sephardic_Jew + Samaritian @ 1.449181
6 Orcadian + Basque + Balkar + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.458274
7 English + Basque + Balkar + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.481286
8 Swedish + Albanian + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.491180
9 Orcadian + Basque + North_Ossetian + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.510500
10 Slovenian + Montenegrin + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.513929
11 Hungarian + Montenegrin + Sicilian + Palestinian @ 1.517337
12 Austrian + Basque + North_Ossetian + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.531193
13 Norwegian + Greek_Thessaly + Sicilian + Palestinian @ 1.538364
14 Slovenian + Basque + Balkar + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.555594
15 Austrian + Montenegrin + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.556250
16 Hungarian + Montenegrin + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.562842
17 Swedish + Albanian + Sephardic_Jew + Lebanese @ 1.564488
18 South_German + Macedonian + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.569484
19 Croatian + Montenegrin + Sicilian + Palestinian @ 1.575907
20 Swedish + Albanian + Sicilian + Palestinian @ 1.594866

Near East K13

Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 34.57
2 NATUFIAN 18.25
3 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 13.39
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 13.1
5 SHG_WHG 7.82
6 EHG 7.76
7 SUB_SAHARAN 1.93
8 SIBERIAN 1.3
9 PAPUAN 0.95
10 SE_ASIAN 0.93

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Ashkenazi 6.35
2 Sicilian 8.89
3 Greek 10.02
4 Italian_South 10.07
5 Turkish_Istanbul 12.27
6 Albanian 12.36
7 Jew_Moroccan 12.51
8 Turkish 13.07
9 Bulgarian 13.94
10 Romanian 15.71
11 Turkish_Balekesir 16.05
12 Turkish_Aydin 16.38
13 Turkish_Adana 16.49
14 Cypriot 16.78
15 Jew_Tunisian 16.89
16 Jew_Libyan 16.96
17 Turkish_Kayseri 17.56
18 Lebanese 19.7
19 Croatian 19.95
20 Kumyk 20.38

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.9% Croatian + 45.1% Palestinian @ 1.87
2 52.8% Hungarian + 47.2% Palestinian @ 2.02
3 51.3% Palestinian + 48.7% Czech @ 2.22
4 52.4% Croatian + 47.6% Jordanian @ 2.53
5 50.3% Hungarian + 49.7% Jordanian @ 2.53
6 53.9% Jordanian + 46.1% Czech @ 2.6
7 50.9% Palestinian + 49.1% English @ 2.62
8 50.8% Palestinian + 49.2% Scottish @ 2.81
9 53.5% Jordanian + 46.5% English @ 2.81
10 54.3% Palestinian + 45.7% Icelandic @ 2.82
11 53.4% Jordanian + 46.6% Scottish @ 2.89
12 56.1% Lebanese + 43.9% Scottish @ 2.92
13 54.1% Palestinian + 45.9% Norwegian @ 2.97
14 51.7% Croatian + 48.3% Syrian @ 2.98
15 51.8% Palestinian + 48.2% Ukrainian @ 3.05
16 56.6% Lebanese + 43.4% Czech @ 3.06
17 61% Romanian + 39% Palestinian @ 3.07
18 56.2% Lebanese + 43.8% English @ 3.19
19 52.7% French + 47.3% Palestinian @ 3.23
20 50.4% Syrian + 49.6% Hungarian @ 3.23

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++
1 Estonian + Jew_Ashkenazi + Jew_Ashkenazi + Palestinian @ 1.447304
2 BedouinA + Croatian + Czech + Druze @ 1.591218
3 BedouinA + Croatian + Druze + English @ 1.649550
4 BedouinA + Croatian + Druze + Scottish @ 1.657502
5 BedouinA + Druze + Hungarian + Hungarian @ 1.661799
6 Jew_Ashkenazi + Jew_Ashkenazi + Palestinian + Russian @ 1.687437
7 Jew_Ashkenazi + Jew_Ashkenazi + Lithuanian + Palestinian @ 1.699068
8 Finnish + Jew_Ashkenazi + Jew_Ashkenazi + Palestinian @ 1.699631
9 BedouinA + Druze + French + Scottish @ 1.708142
10 Druze + Hungarian + Hungarian + Palestinian @ 1.737206
11 BedouinA + Czech + Druze + French @ 1.753537
12 BedouinA + Druze + Icelandic + Romanian @ 1.780027
13 Croatian + Druze + English + Palestinian @ 1.787372
14 BedouinA + Croatian + Druze + Hungarian @ 1.790066
15 BedouinA + Estonian + Jew_Ashkenazi + Jew_Ashkenazi @ 1.795608
16 Croatian + Druze + Palestinian + Scottish @ 1.825203
17 Croatian + Czech + Jordanian + Palestinian @ 1.832782
18 Croatian + Czech + Druze + Palestinian @ 1.843568
19 BedouinA + Czech + Druze + Hungarian @ 1.846538
20 Druze + French + Palestinian + Scottish @ 1.857489

MDLP World 22

Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 31.53
2 North-East-European 25.64
3 West-Asian 19.6
4 Near_East 17.65
5 North-European-Mesolithic 2.34
6 Indo-Iranian 1.11
7 Sub-Saharian 0.63
8 Indo-Tibetan 0.48
9 Mesoamerican 0.46
10 South-African 0.22
11 Paleo-Siberian 0.14
12 Austronesian 0.14
13 Indian 0.03
14 Pygmy 0.02

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazim_V (derived) 3.77
2 Greek_South (derived) 4.52
3 Greek_North (derived) 5.29
4 Jew_Romania (derived) 5.87
5 Greek_Center (derived) 7.85
6 Greek_East (derived) 8.11
7 Italian-Center (derived) 10.12
8 Italian-South (derived) 11.39
9 Gagauz (derived) 11.56
10 Sicilian (derived) 12.6
11 Romania (derived) 13.78
12 Bulgarian (derived) 13.83
13 Italian-North (derived) 13.85
14 Greek_Cretan (derived) 14.24
15 Tatar_Crim (derived) 14.53
16 Ashkenazim (derived) 15.24
17 Greek_Azov (derived) 15.27
18 Italian_North (derived) 16.15
19 Macedonian (derived) 16.29
20 Jew_Francestrale (derived) 17.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55% Jew_Syria (derived) + 45% CEU_V (derived) @ 1.12
2 58% Jew_Syria (derived) + 42% Swedish (derived) @ 1.29
3 57.4% Jew_Syria (derived) + 42.6% German-North (derived) @ 1.32
4 53.7% Jew_Syria (derived) + 46.3% German_V (derived) @ 1.5
5 53.7% Jew_Syria (derived) + 46.3% Austrian (derived) @ 1.59
6 88.9% Jew_Romania (derived) + 11.1% Inkeri (derived) @ 2.09
7 50.1% Druze (derived) + 49.9% Welsh (derived) @ 2.1
8 88.9% Jew_Romania (derived) + 11.1% Finnish (derived) @ 2.15
9 89.5% Jew_Romania (derived) + 10.5% Karelian (derived) @ 2.18
10 59.3% Jew_Syria (derived) + 40.7% Swedish_V (derived) @ 2.22
11 53.4% Jew_Syria (derived) + 46.6% Hungarian (derived) @ 2.24
12 90.1% Jew_Romania (derived) + 9.9% Vepsa (derived) @ 2.27
13 89% Jew_Romania (derived) + 11% Russian_North (derived) @ 2.28
14 92.2% Ashkenazim_V (derived) + 7.8% Kurd (derived) @ 2.33
15 83.7% Ashkenazim_V (derived) + 16.3% Greek_Azov (derived) @ 2.35
16 92.2% Ashkenazim_V (derived) + 7.8% Georgian (derived) @ 2.36
17 86.5% Jew_Romania (derived) + 13.5% Swedish_V (derived) @ 2.36
18 55% German-South (derived) + 45% Lebanese (derived) @ 2.37
19 57.2% Cypriot (derived) + 42.8% German-North (derived) @ 2.38
20 90.6% Jew_Romania (derived) + 9.4% Estonian (derived) @ 2.39

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Bulgarian + Druze + Sephardim + Swedish_V @ 0.599915
2 Croatian + Jew_Georgia + Jew_Libya + Orcadian @ 0.620026
3 Bosnian + Jew_Georgia + Jew_Libya + Orcadian @ 0.683990
4 Bulgarian + Druze + Jew_Italia + Swedish @ 0.685573
5 British + Croatian + Jew_Georgia + Jew_Libya @ 0.748188
6 Druze + Gagauz + Jew_Francestrale + Swedish_V @ 0.751588
7 Gagauz + Jew_Italia + Lebanese + Swedish @ 0.780835
8 Gagauz + Jew_Francestrale + Lebanese + Swedish @ 0.811331
9 Bulgarian + Lebanese + Sephardim + Swedish @ 0.811578
10 Druze + Macedonian + Sephardim + Swedish @ 0.814925
11 Austrian + British + Jew-Iraqi + Jew_Libya @ 0.830425
12 German-North + German-South + Jew_Georgia + Jew_Libya @ 0.855088
13 British + Hungarian + Jew_Georgia + Jew_Libya @ 0.857561
14 Bulgarian + Jew_Syria + Jew_Syria + Swedish_V @ 0.888845
15 Druze + Gagauz + Jew_Italia + Swedish_V @ 0.897917
16 Bosnian + CEU + Druze + Jew_Tunisia @ 0.900668
17 Druze + Jew_Algeria + Macedonian + Swedish @ 0.902620
18 Austrian + CEU + Jew-Iraqi + Jew_Libya @ 0.911473
19 Druze + Jew_Tunisia + Montenegrin + Swedish @ 0.914507
20 Gagauz + Lebanese + Sephardim + Swedish @ 0.920883

Rach_27
07-10-2017, 02:29 AM
Rach_27, I don't think you have Italian ancestry, I think it is more that Sicilians and southern Italians have Levantine ancestry, in particular they are close to ethnic minorities of the Middle East such as Christian Levantines, Assyrians, Armenians, and Copts when compared to the Muslim populations who have more African and Arabian ancestry.

Ahhh interesting thanks, that sounds really plausible.

Claudio
07-10-2017, 12:35 PM
Ashkenazim are almost identical in their ratio of Euro to MENA as Sicilians/Calabrese, in far southern Italy, as well as to Cretans. All of these groups are very similar to one another.

In particular they are closest to Sicilians from Messina and the west-central region (Palermo, Agrigento, Caltanissetta). Less so to Ragusa, Syracuse, Enna, or Trapani where they seem to have more Greek influences from the mainland.

I guess in layman terms.. 🤔
Italy have a Southern European population that diluted with Middle Eastern Near Eastern ancestry..
Where as the Ashkenazi Jews have a Middle Eastern Near Eastern population that diluted with Souther European ancestry..
The outcome being a very similar Ratio 🤔
Fascinating!
Absolutely Fascinating! 👍

Agamemnon
07-10-2017, 12:51 PM
Sure. K13 Global - is that the Near East K13? I hope I posted the right ones:

K 13
Population
North_Atlantic 30.03
Baltic 9.20
West_Med 13.43
West_Asian 12.34
East_Med 26.64
Red_Sea 5.28
South_Asian 0.12
East_Asian 0.56
Siberian 1.02
Amerindian 0.13
Oceanian 0.32
Northeast_African 0.93
Sub-Saharan -

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 9.63
2 Tuscan 10.44
3 West_Sicilian 11.77
4 Greek_Thessaly 13.34
5 North_Italian 14.06
6 Central_Greek 14.09
7 East_Sicilian 14.18
8 Ashkenazi 15.33
9 South_Italian 15.49
10 Romanian 16.83
11 Bulgarian 16.83
12 Sephardic_Jewish 17.94
13 Italian_Jewish 18.63
14 Portuguese 19.26
15 Serbian 19.27
16 Spanish_Extremadura 19.62
17 Spanish_Murcia 19.94
18 Algerian_Jewish 20.53
19 Spanish_Galicia 20.91
20 Spanish_Cataluna 20.98

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.2% Lebanese_Druze + 49.8% Southwest_English @ 3.13
2 51% Southeast_English + 49% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.81
3 51.4% Lebanese_Druze + 48.6% West_Scottish @ 3.87
4 59.7% French + 40.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.95
5 50.2% West_Scottish + 49.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.22
6 51.4% Southwest_English + 48.6% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.29
7 50.7% Lebanese_Druze + 49.3% Orcadian @ 4.29
8 52.7% Southeast_English + 47.3% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.3
9 64.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 35.8% Danish @ 4.33
10 51.3% Lebanese_Druze + 48.7% Irish @ 4.34
11 64.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 35.7% North_Dutch @ 4.4
12 65.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 34.1% Norwegian @ 4.42
13 55.7% South_Dutch + 44.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.48
14 65.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 34.9% West_Scottish @ 4.49
15 65% Sephardic_Jewish + 35% Irish @ 4.56
16 63% Sephardic_Jewish + 37% North_German @ 4.62
17 50.9% Orcadian + 49.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.69
18 64.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 35.5% Orcadian @ 4.7
19 60.1% Tunisian_Jewish + 39.9% West_Scottish @ 4.73
20 50.4% Irish + 49.6% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.76

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++
1 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.494824
2 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 3.832962
3 French + Lebanese_Druze + Tunisian_Jewish + West_Scottish @ 3.873498
4 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.893083
5 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.904009
6 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.993572
7 French_Basque + Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Norwegian @ 4.047233
8 French + Irish + Lebanese_Druze + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.048634
9 French + Lebanese_Druze + Sephardic_Jewish + West_Scottish @ 4.059067
10 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 4.105963
11 Lebanese_Druze + Tunisian_Jewish + West_German + West_Scottish @ 4.111622
12 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 4.115529
13 Lebanese_Druze + Samaritan + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 4.147234
14 Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + Tunisian_Jewish + West_German @ 4.163744
15 Irish + Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English @ 4.166576
16 Lebanese_Druze + Samaritan + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 4.175958
17 Lebanese_Druze + South_Dutch + Tunisian_Jewish + West_Scottish @ 4.180357
18 Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Druze + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 4.190624
19 French + Lebanese_Druze + Orcadian + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.197893
20 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 4.205178

K15
Population
North_Sea 19.19
Atlantic 21.15
Baltic 3.22
Eastern_Euro 2.39
West_Med 9.64
West_Asian 12.27
East_Med 24.61
Red_Sea 4.89
South_Asian 0.09
Southeast_Asian 0.22
Siberian 0.99
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.18
Northeast_African 1.09
Sub-Saharan -

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 9.95
2 Tuscan 11.27
3 West_Sicilian 11.57
4 East_Sicilian 13.36
5 Central_Greek 13.55
6 Ashkenazi 13.92
7 Greek_Thessaly 14.25
8 North_Italian 14.74
9 South_Italian 14.81
10 Greek 15.01
11 Italian_Jewish 16.51
12 Bulgarian 17
13 Romanian 17.01
14 Sephardic_Jewish 17.25
15 Serbian 18.13
16 Spanish_Murcia 18.8
17 Algerian_Jewish 18.8
18 Spanish_Extremadura 18.92
19 Portuguese 19.2
20 Spanish_Cataluna 19.94

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.3% Southeast_English + 46.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.05
2 52.9% Southwest_English + 47.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.08
3 52.8% Southeast_English + 47.2% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.14
4 51.8% Irish + 48.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.22
5 59.2% Tunisian_Jewish + 40.8% Orcadian @ 5.23
6 51.4% West_Scottish + 48.6% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.28
7 64% Sephardic_Jewish + 36% Orcadian @ 5.31
8 51.5% Lebanese_Muslim + 48.5% Southeast_English @ 5.45
9 51.4% Irish + 48.6% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.46
10 58.8% Tunisian_Jewish + 41.2% West_Scottish @ 5.46
11 50.9% Orcadian + 49.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.48
12 60.4% French + 39.6% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.5
13 63.6% Sephardic_Jewish + 36.4% West_Scottish @ 5.53
14 53.4% Southwest_English + 46.6% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.53
15 54.2% Cyprian + 45.8% West_Scottish @ 5.59
16 58.4% Tunisian_Jewish + 41.6% Irish @ 5.59
17 54.7% Cyprian + 45.3% Orcadian @ 5.61
18 51% West_Scottish + 49% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.62
19 63.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 36.7% Irish @ 5.67
20 57% Tunisian_Jewish + 43% Southeast_English @ 5.68

MDLP K23B
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 29.92
2 European_Early_Farmers 19.5
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 19.04
4 Near_East 12.84
5 South_Central_Asian 7.47
6 North_African 6.48
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.45
8 Tungus-Altaic 1.15
9 East_African 0.75
10 Archaic_Human 0.61
11 Amerindian 0.48
12 South_East_Asian 0.31

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian_West ( ) 9.7
2 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 11.43
3 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 11.58
4 Maltese ( ) 11.67
5 Slovenian ( ) 11.9
6 Serb_Serbia ( ) 11.96
7 Hungarian ( ) 12
8 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 12.01
9 Montenegrian ( ) 12.08
10 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 12.09
11 Austrian ( ) 12.45
12 Italian_North ( ) 12.56
13 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 12.69
14 Serb_BH ( ) 12.71
15 Croat ( ) 12.74
16 Czech ( ) 12.78
17 Bosnian ( ) 12.87
18 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 12.94
19 Bulgarian ( ) 13.08
20 Libyan_Jew ( ) 13.19


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.2% North_European ( ) + 49.8% Samaritian ( ) @ 2.2
2 51.9% English ( ) + 48.1% Samaritian ( ) @ 2.44
3 52% Samaritian ( ) + 48% CEU ( ) @ 2.71
4 50.4% Norwegian_East ( ) + 49.6% Samaritian ( ) @ 2.72
5 52.3% Lebanese ( ) + 47.7% North_European ( ) @ 2.79
6 52.8% Samaritian ( ) + 47.2% Norwegian_West ( ) @ 2.82
7 54.5% Lebanese ( ) + 45.5% CEU ( ) @ 2.86
8 54.9% Lebanese ( ) + 45.1% Welsh ( ) @ 2.87
9 52.4% Samaritian ( ) + 47.6% Welsh ( ) @ 2.93
10 52.8% Samaritian ( ) + 47.2% British ( ) @ 3.01
11 50.5% Lebanese ( ) + 49.5% English ( ) @ 3.04
12 53.7% Belgian ( ) + 46.3% Samaritian ( ) @ 3.06
13 51.6% Samaritian ( ) + 48.4% English_Cornwall_GBR ( ) @ 3.11
14 55.5% Samaritian ( ) + 44.5% Orcadian ( ) @ 3.11
15 57.9% Lebanese ( ) + 42.1% Orcadian ( ) @ 3.11
16 50.6% Samaritian ( ) + 49.4% English_Kent_GBR ( ) @ 3.12
17 55.3% Lebanese ( ) + 44.7% British ( ) @ 3.13
18 53.3% Samaritian ( ) + 46.7% Icelandic ( ) @ 3.15
19 54.3% Samaritian ( ) + 45.7% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR ( ) @ 3.17
20 53% Lebanese ( ) + 47% English_Kent_GBR ( ) @ 3.21


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Lebanese + Russian-North-West + Samaritian + Spanish_Aragon_IBS @ 1.983448
2 Lebanese + Russian-North-West + Samaritian + Spanish_Cantabria_IBS @ 2.024403
3 Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Sorb + Spanish_Valencia_IBS @ 2.040226
4 Lebanese + Russian-North-West + Samaritian + Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha_IBS @ 2.047469
5 Kashub + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS @ 2.110430
6 Lebanese + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Sorb + Spanish_Valencia_IBS @ 2.119356
7 Kashub + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Spanish_Cataluna_IBS @ 2.128937
8 Lebanese + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Sorb + Spanish_Andalucia_IBS @ 2.133172
9 Lebanese + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Sorb + Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha_IBS @ 2.136487
10 Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Russian-North-West + Samaritian + Spanish_Valencia_IBS @ 2.136502
11 Kashub + Lebanese + Samaritian + Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS @ 2.138213
12 Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Sorb + Spanish_Cataluna_IBS @ 2.147467
13 Russian-North-West + Samaritian + Samaritian + Spanish_Cantabria_IBS @ 2.147607
14 Kashub + Lebanese + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS @ 2.148442
15 Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Spanish_Cantabria_IBS + Ukrainian_East @ 2.151318
16 Belarusian-East + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Spanish_Cantabria_IBS @ 2.154686
17 Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Sorb + Spanish_Cantabria_IBS @ 2.162727
18 Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Samaritian + Sorb + Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS @ 2.164989
19 Lebanese + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Sorb + Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS @ 2.178184
20 Russian-North-West + Samaritian + Spanish_Extremadura_IBS + Syrian_Jew @ 2.184411

PuntDNAL K15

Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 34.01
2 NE_European 29.16
3 Caucasian 20.9
4 SW_Asian 9.67
5 Horn_Of_Africa 4.59
6 E_Asian 0.82
7 Beringian 0.42
8 Siberian 0.37
9 Oceanian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 4.96
2 Greek_Central 5.32
3 Albanian 6.05
4 Tuscan 6.67
5 Ashkenazy_Jew 9.56
6 Montenegrin 10.34
7 Italian 10.63
8 Sicilian 11.31
9 Bulgarian 11.6
10 Romanian 12.46
11 Macedonian 13.29
12 Sephardic_Jew 13.41
13 Bosnian 15.06
14 Brazilian 16.26
15 Portuguese 17.6
16 Spaniard 18.73
17 Serbian 19.32
18 French 22.3
19 Croatian 24.37
20 South_German 24.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.9% Montenegrin + 28.1% Palestinian @ 1.74
2 71.4% Montenegrin + 28.6% Lebanese @ 1.82
3 69.5% Bulgarian + 30.5% Palestinian @ 1.83
4 67.9% Romanian + 32.1% Palestinian @ 1.88
5 73.3% Montenegrin + 26.7% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.94
6 68.2% Macedonian + 31.8% Samaritian @ 1.96
7 73.4% Montenegrin + 26.6% Syrian @ 2.03
8 54% French + 46% Palestinian @ 2.14
9 73.6% Montenegrin + 26.4% Jordanian @ 2.16
10 53.6% South_German + 46.4% Samaritian @ 2.18
11 71.2% Bulgarian + 28.8% Samaritian @ 2.19
12 75.9% Sephardic_Jew + 24.1% Belarusian @ 2.21
13 77.5% Sephardic_Jew + 22.5% Lithuanian @ 2.23
14 50.4% Irish + 49.6% Samaritian @ 2.29
15 75.3% Sephardic_Jew + 24.7% Mordovian @ 2.29
16 59.5% Serbian + 40.5% Samaritian @ 2.31
17 52.8% Utahn_White + 47.2% Samaritian @ 2.33
18 51.6% Samaritian + 48.4% North_German @ 2.36
19 88.5% Greek_Thessaly + 11.5% Yemenite_Jew @ 2.36
20 50.1% Samaritian + 49.9% English @ 2.38

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++
1 Irish + Basque + Balkar + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.352035
2 Austrian + Basque + Balkar + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.376885
3 Polish + Albanian + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.398664
4 Polish + Tuscan + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.432365
5 Belarusian + Tuscan + Sephardic_Jew + Samaritian @ 1.449181
6 Orcadian + Basque + Balkar + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.458274
7 English + Basque + Balkar + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.481286
8 Swedish + Albanian + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.491180
9 Orcadian + Basque + North_Ossetian + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.510500
10 Slovenian + Montenegrin + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.513929
11 Hungarian + Montenegrin + Sicilian + Palestinian @ 1.517337
12 Austrian + Basque + North_Ossetian + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.531193
13 Norwegian + Greek_Thessaly + Sicilian + Palestinian @ 1.538364
14 Slovenian + Basque + Balkar + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.555594
15 Austrian + Montenegrin + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.556250
16 Hungarian + Montenegrin + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.562842
17 Swedish + Albanian + Sephardic_Jew + Lebanese @ 1.564488
18 South_German + Macedonian + Sephardic_Jew + Palestinian @ 1.569484
19 Croatian + Montenegrin + Sicilian + Palestinian @ 1.575907
20 Swedish + Albanian + Sicilian + Palestinian @ 1.594866

Pretty much what I expected to see considering your background, I've highlighted in red the fits that make the most sense. Using Tolan's K15 tool this is where you plot:


http://pichoster.net/images/2017/07/10/07ef2cc30f74f290cc9920934b149d99.jpg

This is consistent with the Single Population Sharing placing you closer to the Abruzzesi, so you're just outside the East Mediterranean continuum, it also looks like you're pretty close to the Albanians (they tend to plot where you do, in between Thessaly, Tuscan and Abruzzo).

It's safe to say that you have no recent Italian ancestry.

Claudio
07-10-2017, 12:51 PM
Ahhh interesting thanks, that sounds really plausible.

Though it could also work to a degree the other way round 🤔 with some Southern European ancestry going the other way considering the Greek/Roman influence in the levant and the more recent Byzantine era history 🤔
Doing that 23andMe test must getting more tempting by the day? Hey Rach 😉

Rach_27
07-10-2017, 01:02 PM
Pretty much what I expected to see considering your background, I've highlighted in red the fits that make the most sense. Using Tolan's K15 tool this is where you plot:


http://pichoster.net/images/2017/07/10/07ef2cc30f74f290cc9920934b149d99.jpg

This is consistent with the Single Population Sharing placing you closer to the Abruzzesi, so you're just outside the East Mediterranean continuum, it also looks like you're pretty close to the Albanians (they tend to plot where you do, in between Thessaly, Tuscan and Abruzzo).

It's safe to say that you have no recent Italian ancestry.

Thanks for your feedback and efforts. It is very appreciated :) I guess I'm not ethnically Italian then.. Thankfully I didn't get used to it lol.

Rach_27
07-10-2017, 01:10 PM
Though it could also work to a degree the other way round �� with some Southern European ancestry going the other way considering the Greek/Roman influence in the levant and the more recent Byzantine era history ��
Doing that 23andMe test must getting more tempting by the day? Hey Rach �� Oh, true! It's just so strange that so many half Middle Easterners get this inflated Italian score. I need to check again but I think there is a half Palestinian person on Zetaboards that was also assigned an inflated Italian score by 23andMe so I'm not sure how I'll go.. :( .. Hi :)

Agamemnon
07-10-2017, 01:20 PM
Oh, true! It's just so strange that so many half Middle Easterners get this inflated Italian score. I need to check again but I think there is a half Palestinian person on Zetaboards that was also assigned an inflated Italian score by 23andMe so I'm not sure how I'll go.. :( .. Hi :)

Italian basically conceals much of the Near Eastern/Levantine admixture you inherited. Sephardim have the same problem, and Ashkenazi Jews would have it as well if they didn't have their own category on these tests.

Rach_27
07-10-2017, 01:42 PM
Italian basically conceals much of the Near Eastern/Levantine admixture you inherited. Sephardim have the same problem, and Ashkenazi Jews would have it as well if they didn't have their own category on these tests.
Ahhh, thanks, that makes sense. :) Hopefully in the future these tests will become a bit more accurate.. I guess I can surmise that I'm not part Iberian, Sephardi or Ashkenazi either..

Ignis90
07-10-2017, 02:49 PM
I guess I'm not ethnically Italian then.. Thankfully I didn't get used to it lol.

Well, for most people, these DNA tests only confirm their known ancestry (if they know how to interpret their results). Only a small minority of people taking these ancestry tests get surprising and unexpected results.

In your case, neither Levantines nor Brits have any kind of Italian ancestry (which makes sense historically), so there was no way you were Italian.

Also, while your mix ends up somewhat being similar to some Italian and Southern Balkanian populations, it's just superficial similarity because it only takes into account most of your ancestry, leaving out minor details such as ancestry outside of the hybrid Basal Eurasian-West Eurasian Hunter-gatherer variation (such as African, East Eurasian...) as well as the possibility of mimicking poorly the ancestral populations that contributed to modern ones (European Neolithic + Steppes possibly confused with Neolithic Near Eastern + Iranian Chalcolithic etc...).
The same way Western Jews are quite similar to Sicilians, Maltese, Southern Italians and Greek islanders but all these populations actually ended up being similar while some of their recent donor populations were initially pretty distinct (Anatolians or North Africans to cite just a few).

Claudio
07-10-2017, 02:58 PM
Oh, true! It's just so strange that so many half Middle Easterners get this inflated Italian score. I need to check again but I think there is a half Palestinian person on Zetaboards that was also assigned an inflated Italian score by 23andMe so I'm not sure how I'll go.. :( .. Hi :)

Hopefully 🤞
You won't get an inflated score..
Like even if they gave you like 0.5 %
And it showed on there timeline feature you had an ancestor in the 15th century or something it would be really interesting to investigate from a historical and personal perspective also any other small European ethnicities that might show up in small percentages could be interesting 🤔

Claudio
07-10-2017, 03:06 PM
Ahhh, thanks, that makes sense. :) Hopefully in the future these tests will become a bit more accurate.. I guess I can surmise that I'm not part Iberian, Sephardi or Ashkenazi either..

Maybe I'm wrong.. but it doesn't answer why you keep getting cousin matches with Sephardi and Ashkenazi's people though?
Anyone 🤔

Rach_27
07-10-2017, 03:15 PM
Well, for most people, these DNA tests only confirm their known ancestry (if they know how to interpret their results). Only a small minority of people taking these ancestry tests get surprising and unexpected results.

In your case, neither Levantines nor Brits have any kind of Italian ancestry (which makes sense historically), so there was no way you were Italian.

Also, while your mix ends up somewhat being similar to some Italian and Southern Balkanian populations, it's just superficial similarity because it only takes into account most of your ancestry, leaving out minor details such as ancestry outside of the hybrid Basal Eurasian-West Eurasian Hunter-gatherer variation (such as African, East Eurasian...) as well as the possibility of mimicking poorly the ancestral populations that contributed to modern ones (European Neolithic + Steppes possibly confused with Neolithic Near Eastern + Iranian Chalcolithic etc...).
The same way Western Jews are quite similar to Sicilians, Maltese, Southern Italians and Greek islanders but all these populations actually ended up being similar while some of their recent donor populations were initially pretty distinct (Anatolians or North Africans to cite just a few). Thanks for your insights. The strange thing is that all of my Middle Eastern matches without fail on AncestryDNA have been assigned Italy/Greece DNA and I had read a theory on a blog that this could be due to ancient Roman DNA in the region which has been recycled throughout the generations. They are the only reasons I did not immediately dismiss the possibility of having some Italian DNA.

Agamemnon
07-10-2017, 03:17 PM
Well, for most people, these DNA tests only confirm their known ancestry (if they know how to interpret their results). Only a small minority of people taking these ancestry tests get surprising and unexpected results.

In your case, neither Levantines nor Brits have any kind of Italian ancestry (which makes sense historically), so there was no way you were Italian.

Also, while your mix ends up somewhat being similar to some Italian and Southern Balkanian populations, it's just superficial similarity because it only takes into account most of your ancestry, leaving out minor details such as ancestry outside of the hybrid Basal Eurasian-West Eurasian Hunter-gatherer variation (such as African, East Eurasian...) as well as the possibility of mimicking poorly the ancestral populations that contributed to modern ones (European Neolithic + Steppes possibly confused with Neolithic Near Eastern + Iranian Chalcolithic etc...).
The same way Western Jews are quite similar to Sicilians, Maltese, Southern Italians and Greek islanders but all these populations actually ended up being similar while some of their recent donor populations were initially pretty distinct (Anatolians or North Africans to cite just a few).

Totally second the bolded part.

Awale
07-10-2017, 04:52 PM
http://pichoster.net/images/2017/07/10/07ef2cc30f74f290cc9920934b149d99.jpg

This is somewhat funny for me given how I more than once pointed out to King (http://www.anthrogenica.com/member.php?2036-King) in private discussions that Italians like Tuscans and Greeks like Thessalians more or less basally look like intermediates between Brits and Levantines (i.e. the English and the Lebanese). What you're seeing is indeed just that, as Agamemnon and Ignis noted, Rach_27. You basally resemble their ancestral structure but you're obviously distinct in terms of recent roots.

alexfritz
07-10-2017, 05:29 PM
Thanks for your insights. The strange thing is that all of my Middle Eastern matches without fail on AncestryDNA have been assigned Italy/Greece DNA and I had read a theory on a blog that this could be due to ancient Roman DNA in the region which has been recycled throughout the generations. They are the only reasons I did not immediately dismiss the possibility of having some Italian DNA.

there were also quite a lot of northern italians (and normans from south italy) in the holy land during the mediveal era as crusader contingents, knights hospitaller and maritime republics; the 13th century 'war of the lombards' further illustrates this presence; so maybe you do really have south european ancestry, now expressed as 'Italy/Greece' or 'Italy'; keeping in mind that genetically 'italians' are not a homogeneous group, but form distinct clusters themselves (i.e. north/central, south/sicilian and completely isolated the sards) all however part of the broader south european cluster;

Rach_27
07-11-2017, 06:02 AM
I understand that my oracle results in Gedmatch assigning me Southern Italian/Sicilian are definitely wrong because I am just basally similar to those populations as stated by Awale and others.. But do autosomal results carry more weight than oracle results? I ask because I was assigned 25% Italy/Greece by Ancestry DNA and it estimates that the range could be between 13% and 36%. My mum was assigned no Italy/Greece through Ancestry DNA, however, through Gedmatch K36 calculator she is 12.9% Iberian and 10.67% Italian (I was thinking this is perhaps ancient Mediterranean ancestry that is common in British people?). On top of this, my closest Palestinian matches with two Palestinian parents usually show around 10% Italian in the K36 calculator as well as small percentages of West Med. Along with my mum's K36 results, if I then assume that my dad would be assigned similar Mediterranean results to my close matches, does it then sound more plausible that my autosomal results could be accurate? Anyone..? Sorry if I'm flogging a dead horse... :)

Claudio
07-11-2017, 09:10 AM
I understand that my oracle results in Gedmatch assigning me Southern Italian/Sicilian are definitely wrong because I am just basally similar to those populations as stated by Awale and others.. But do autosomal results carry more weight than oracle results? I ask because I was assigned 25% Italy/Greece by Ancestry DNA and it estimates that the range could be between 13% and 36%. My mum was assigned no Italy/Greece through Ancestry DNA, however, through Gedmatch K36 calculator she is 12.9% Iberian and 10.67% Italian (I was thinking this is perhaps ancient Mediterranean ancestry that is common in British people?). On top of this, my closest Palestinian matches with two Palestinian parents usually show around 10% Italian in the K36 calculator as well as small percentages of West Med. Along with my mum's K36 results, if I then assume that my dad would be assigned similar Mediterranean results to my close matches, does it then sound more plausible that my autosomal results could be accurate? Anyone..? Sorry if I'm flogging a dead horse... :)

You could post your mums Gedmatch results here 🤔 See what opinions the posters above in this thread have on your mums Mediterranean content 🤔

alexfritz
07-11-2017, 09:23 AM
i recommend uploading to DNA.land, its free and fast and has a good detailed breakdown, specially for the region in question; it is plausible that 'italy/greece' echoes EEF admix, though west_med/sardinian would be the closest/strictest link;

Rach_27
07-11-2017, 09:23 AM
You could post your mums Gedmatch results here �� See what opinions the posters above in this thread have on your mums Mediterranean content ��

Sure, my mum's results are:

Population
Basque 3.08
Central_Euro 7.88
East_Central_Euro 3.18
Eastern_Euro 3.98
Fennoscandian 14.47
French 4.17
Iberian 12.90
Italian 10.67
North_Atlantic 16.46
North_Caucasian 3.17
North_Sea 19.97
Volga-Ural 0.08

Rach_27
07-11-2017, 09:30 AM
i recommend uploading to DNA.land, its free and fast and has a good detailed breakdown, specially for the region in question; it is plausible that 'italy/greece' echoes EEF admix, though west_med/sardinian would be the closest/strictest link;

Thanks. My results from DNA Land: 17484

alexfritz
07-11-2017, 10:42 AM
with 53% south/central euro it would be strange if you wouldnt cluster next to italian/greek groups;
seems fairly safe to conclude that a good doze of that south/central is also derived from your british lineage; it also seems as if all your iberian (and also west_asian) is now corresponding with the north_it/tuscan cluster;

Rach_27
07-11-2017, 11:25 AM
with 53% south/central euro it would be strange if you wouldnt cluster next to italian/greek groups;
seems fairly safe to conclude that a good doze of that south/central is also derived from your british lineage; it also seems as if all your iberian (and also west_asian) is now corresponding with the north_it/tuscan cluster;

Ah, thanks, that makes sense. My DNALand results are the farthest from my known ancestry :\ :)

Claudio
07-19-2017, 06:13 PM
Also worth noting, according to above, Eastern and Western Jews are both closer to Sicilians than to one another. I wonder why this is. Western Ashkenazim seem more Levant shifted, and eastern Ashkenazim seem more Italian shifted (Abruzzo is higher on the list for eastern Ashkenazim).

Wonder why that is 🤔
Any ideas??

wandering_amorite
07-19-2017, 06:34 PM
Wonder why that is ��
Any ideas??

Just the addition of minor Eastern European ancestry for eastern Ashkenazim. Possibly greater Sephardi influence on western Ashkenazi communities too, but that wouldn't "move the goalposts" very much.

Saba123
07-19-2017, 06:43 PM
Here are some Eurogene K36 Near Eastern,Arabian,East Med, etc... percentages from a few of the MANY Ashkenazi kits I have.
#1
Arabian 4.44
East_Med 19.55
Near_Eastern 12.92
North_African 1.86
North_Caucasian 4.9
#2
Arabian 5.50
Armenian 7.23
East_Med 14.82
Near_Eastern 13.43
North_African 1.60
North_Caucasian 3.01
West_Caucasian 2.95
#3
Arabian 8.37
Armenian 4.34
East_Med 12.42
Near_Eastern 16.87
North_African 3.74
North_Caucasian 4.39
Northeast_African 1.46
West_Caucasian 2.18
#4
Arabian 7.84
Armenian 5.13
East_Med 15.30
Near_Eastern 15.13
North_African 2.00
North_Caucasian 6.10
West_Caucasian 2.27
#5
Arabian 7.31
Armenian 0.83
East_Med 14.61
Near_Eastern 14.17
North_African 1.73
North_Caucasian 10.23
West_Caucasian 1.20
#6
Arabian 5.34
Armenian 7.74
East_Med 14.66
Near_Eastern 12.81
North_African 4.97
North_Caucasian 1.17
West_Caucasian 2.78


I access to tons and tons of Ashkenazi kits if you want more percentages.

bryan
07-19-2017, 07:23 PM
Hi all 👋
Question 🤔
Regarding the Middle Eastern and European origins of both the male and female lines of Ashkenazi Jews I have seen many articles,theories and debates..
But putting that debate aside how do "full" Ashkenazi Jews compare to typical North,Central and South Italians and sicilians in regard to simply comparing there levels of middle eastern content on Gedmatch?
Higher?
Lower?
🤔

Ashkenazi Jews have rather a Samaritian, Southern Levantine like genetic background which is their "Core" ancestry.

Based on Globe13 calculator
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FTCC6UyauUeBhPrA9aHzr7DLEnVq5q-wnTsfpe2a9Jg/edit?pli=1&pli=1#gid=24

Ashkenazi reference population:

22.4 West Asian
20.6 Southwest Asian

Central Italians:

20.5 West Asian
14.3 Southwest Asian

Sicilians:

23.6 West Asian
17.3 Southwest Asian

West Asian VS Southwest Asian (Above 1.+ means a higher West Asian ratio compared to SW Asian)

1.433 Central Italians
1.364 Sicilians
1.223 Druze
1.087 Ashkenazi Jews (almost 1:1 which is similar to Levantine populations)
0.802 Palestinians

Claudio
07-19-2017, 07:53 PM
Here are some Eurogene K36 Near Eastern,Arabian,East Med, etc... percentages from a few of the MANY Ashkenazi kits I have.
#1
Arabian 4.44
East_Med 19.55
Near_Eastern 12.92
North_African 1.86
North_Caucasian 4.9
#2
Arabian 5.50
Armenian 7.23
East_Med 14.82
Near_Eastern 13.43
North_African 1.60
North_Caucasian 3.01
West_Caucasian 2.95
#3
Arabian 8.37
Armenian 4.34
East_Med 12.42
Near_Eastern 16.87
North_African 3.74
North_Caucasian 4.39
Northeast_African 1.46
West_Caucasian 2.18
#4
Arabian 7.84
Armenian 5.13
East_Med 15.30
Near_Eastern 15.13
North_African 2.00
North_Caucasian 6.10
West_Caucasian 2.27
#5
Arabian 7.31
Armenian 0.83
East_Med 14.61
Near_Eastern 14.17
North_African 1.73
North_Caucasian 10.23
West_Caucasian 1.20
#6
Arabian 5.34
Armenian 7.74
East_Med 14.66
Near_Eastern 12.81
North_African 4.97
North_Caucasian 1.17
West_Caucasian 2.78


I access to tons and tons of Ashkenazi kits if you want more percentages.

What is the North_ Caucasian representative of.. I'm sure I've seen it in these amounts in North European people.. is it representative of admix picked up Over the years from historical Ashkenazi migration from Southern Europe to Northern Europe or some such?

Claudio
07-19-2017, 08:04 PM
[QUOTE=bryan;262747]Ashkenazi Jews have rather a Samaritian, Southern Levantine like genetic background which is their "Core" ancestry.

Based on Globe13 calculator
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FTCC6UyauUeBhPrA9aHzr7DLEnVq5q-wnTsfpe2a9Jg/edit?pli=1&pli=1#gid=24

Ashkenazi reference population:

22.4 West Asian
20.6 Southwest Asian

Central Italians:

20.5 West Asian
14.3 Southwest Asian

Sicilians:

23.6 West Asian
17.3 Southwest Asian

West Asian VS Southwest Asian (Above 1.+ means a higher West Asian ratio compared to SW Asian)

1.433 Central Italians
1.364 Sicilians
1.223 Druze
1.087 Ashkenazi Jews (almost 1:1 which is similar to Levantine populations)
0.802 Palestinians[/QUOTE

Nice one Bryan..
cheers for the post.. can really see the comparisons.. fascinating 👍

Taurus
07-19-2017, 09:53 PM
Ashkenazi Jews have rather a Samaritian, Southern Levantine like genetic background which is their "Core" ancestry.

Based on Globe13 calculator
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FTCC6UyauUeBhPrA9aHzr7DLEnVq5q-wnTsfpe2a9Jg/edit?pli=1&pli=1#gid=24

Ashkenazi reference population:

22.4 West Asian
20.6 Southwest Asian

Central Italians:

20.5 West Asian
14.3 Southwest Asian

Sicilians:

23.6 West Asian
17.3 Southwest Asian

West Asian VS Southwest Asian (Above 1.+ means a higher West Asian ratio compared to SW Asian)

1.433 Central Italians
1.364 Sicilians
1.223 Druze
1.087 Ashkenazi Jews (almost 1:1 which is similar to Levantine populations)
0.802 Palestinians

Central Italians is C_Italian_D, a sample from Dodecad that includes also Abruzzesi who belong to the southern Italian cluster.

Compare with

Greeks (Greek_D)
22.9 West Asian
15.1 Southwest Asian

Bulgarians (Bulgarian_D)
17.5 West Asian
11.1 Southwest Asian

Tuscan (Central Italian)
18.3 West Asian
11 Southwest Asian

TSI30 (another Central Italian sample)
17.7 West Asian
11 Southwest Asian

Bulgarians (Bulgarians_Y)
17.3 West Asian
10.6 Southwest Asian

Romanians
15.7 West Asian
10.4 Southwest Asian

Serbs (Serb_D)
15 West Asian
9.2 Southwest Asian

Hungarians
6.2 West Asian
9.7 Southwest Asian

Austrians (Austrian_D)
5.7 West Asian
8.6 Southwest Asian

Claudio
07-20-2017, 10:00 AM
Question 🤔
On AncestryDNA AND 23andMe most central Italians score roughly about 5/10% West Asian Middle Eastern and Southern Italians and Sicilians maybe score 10/20% West Asian Middle Eastern..
if hypothetically AncestryDNA AND 23andMe didn't have an Ashkenazi ethnicity section what would a full Ashkenazi persons ethnicity report results most likely come back like?
And how much West Asian Middle Eastern would they score?

Taurus
07-20-2017, 08:32 PM
Question ��
On AncestryDNA AND 23andMe most central Italians score roughly about 5/10% West Asian Middle Eastern and Southern Italians and Sicilians maybe score 10/20% West Asian Middle Eastern..
if hypothetically AncestryDNA AND 23andMe didn't have an Ashkenazi ethnicity section what would a full Ashkenazi persons ethnicity report results most likely come back like?
And how much West Asian Middle Eastern would they score?

I have seen the AncestryDNA's results of three central Italians of verified ancestry. Two Tuscans didn't score any West Asian, the only who scored West Asian (6%) was a guy from Marche.

Claudio
07-20-2017, 08:58 PM
I have seen the AncestryDNA's results of three central Italians of verified ancestry. Two Tuscans didn't score any West Asian, the only who scored West Asian (6%) was a guy from Marche.

Ok southern Italians and sicilians then lol
Hypothetical scenario and question still awaits an answer though....

bryan
07-20-2017, 09:36 PM
The Italian component covers some Near Eastern ancestry because both components share some basic elements (Neolithic Farmer) which originated from the Fertile Descent or close to it.

If you score 100% Italian you have more Near Eastern like ancestry than if you score 80% Western European and 20% Near Eastern. It's an other question if that ancestry is more recent or not.

Taurus
07-20-2017, 09:41 PM
The Italian component covers some Near Eastern ancestry because both components share some basic elements (Neolithic Farmer) which originated from the Fertile Descent or close to it.

If you score 100% Italian you have more Near Eastern like ancestry than if you score 80% Western European and 20% Near Eastern. It's an other question if that ancestry is more recent or not.

It doesn't really exist an Italian component, and every company or GEDmatch calculator uses different reference samples for this artificial Italian component.

Claudio
07-20-2017, 09:42 PM
Question 🤔
On AncestryDNA AND 23andMe most central Italians score roughly about 5/10% West Asian Middle Eastern and Southern Italians and Sicilians maybe score 10/20% West Asian Middle Eastern..
if hypothetically AncestryDNA AND 23andMe didn't have an Ashkenazi ethnicity section what would a full Ashkenazi persons ethnicity report results most likely come back like?
And how much West Asian Middle Eastern would they score?

This is the Question ☝️

alexfritz
07-20-2017, 10:09 PM
This is the Question ☝️

shriner et al 2014 (p.8)
https://images.nature.com/original/nature-assets/srep/2014/140813/srep06055/extref/srep06055-s1.pdf
behar et al 2013 (K=10) - lightest-blue indicates bedouin / green indicates west_asia/caucasus
17644

Taurus
07-20-2017, 11:21 PM
behar et al 2013 (K=10) - lightest-blue indicates bedouin / green indicates west_asia/caucasus
17644

That figure is an estimated population structure from ADMIXTURE with K=10, and Behar plotted the runs with the highest LL score. They got different results, even at a different number of K, but they chose a model at 10, also because the study focuses on the origins of Aschenazis.

Bedouins have SSA (one of the two brown components) in that figure. The lightest-blue is the K3, and is most likely a generic Middle-Eastern component. Green is just another K, hardly to understand what it exactly means even if it is, more or less, intuitive.

alexfritz
07-20-2017, 11:56 PM
That figure is an estimated population structure from ADMIXTURE with K=10, and Behar plotted the runs with the highest LL score. They got different results, even at a different number of K, but they chose a model at 10, also because the study focuses on the origins of Aschenazis.

Bedouins have SSA (one of the two brown components) in that figure. The lightest-blue is the K3, and is most likely a generic Middle-Eastern component. Green is just another K, hardly to understand what it exactly means even if it is, more or less, intuitive.

noticed that too,
that 'west_asian' component is somewhat ambiguous, looks akin to the K at kushniarevich et al which ranges from caucasus>hindu-kush; kushniarevich et al 2015 (K=6)
17645

Saba123
07-21-2017, 05:33 AM
What is the North_ Caucasian representative of.. I'm sure I've seen it in these amounts in North European people.. is it representative of admix picked up Over the years from historical Ashkenazi migration from Southern Europe to Northern Europe or some such?

North Caucasian is representative of Circassians. While West Caucasian is more representative of Georgians. It has nothing to do with Europeans. But Ashkenazis do have alot of European admixture from their migrations. I was just listing the MENA parts of their DNA. A full Ashkenazi K36 looks like this
Amerindian -
Arabian 6.41
Armenian 5.05
Basque 1.64
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 2.37
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 17.33
Eastern_Euro 1.28
Fennoscandian 0.70
French 2.47
Iberian 11.60
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 14.41
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 11.91
North_African 3.07
North_Atlantic 0.52
North_Caucasian 8.93
North_Sea 5.70
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.16
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian 0.17
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 1.28
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.54
West_Med 0.45

lukaszM
07-21-2017, 08:13 AM
North Caucasian is representative of Circassians. While West Caucasian is more representative of Georgians. It has nothing to do with Europeans. But Ashkenazis do have alot of European admixture from their migrations. I was just listing the MENA parts of their DNA. A full Ashkenazi K36 looks like this


Generally something simialr to Sicilian or Greek Islander but with small Eastern and North Euro admixtures.
Akshenazi isn't Europeized Levantine (from their genetic simialrity). It's rather NE-Euro shifted Sicilian:)

Erik
07-21-2017, 04:02 PM
Akshenazi isn't Europeized Levantine (from their genetic simialrity). It's rather NE-Euro shifted Sicilian:)

Just because 2 groups plot near each other does not mean much at all. Especially when they share very little autosomally. For whatever reason there is a fixation that many people online have with trying to relate Ashkenazim to Sicilians, so saying things like this have somewhat become normalized. But let's say we reversed it and called Sicilians "SW Euro shifted Ashkenazim". See how little that makes sense? A bit more extreme example would be calling Hazaras "NE Asian shifted mestizos". It is a logical fallacy.

Claudio
07-21-2017, 04:22 PM
North Caucasian is representative of Circassians. While West Caucasian is more representative of Georgians. It has nothing to do with Europeans. But Ashkenazis do have alot of European admixture from their migrations. I was just listing the MENA parts of their DNA. A full Ashkenazi K36 looks like this
Amerindian -
Arabian 6.41
Armenian 5.05
Basque 1.64
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 2.37
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 17.33
Eastern_Euro 1.28
Fennoscandian 0.70
French 2.47
Iberian 11.60
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 14.41
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 11.91
North_African 3.07
North_Atlantic 0.52
North_Caucasian 8.93
North_Sea 5.70
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.16
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian 0.17
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 1.28
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.54
West_Med 0.45

Ok cheers 🙂

Claudio
07-21-2017, 04:26 PM
The Italian component covers some Near Eastern ancestry because both components share some basic elements (Neolithic Farmer) which originated from the Fertile Descent or close to it.

If you score 100% Italian you have more Near Eastern like ancestry than if you score 80% Western European and 20% Near Eastern. It's an other question if that ancestry is more recent or not.

Ok I get what you mean 👍

alexfritz
07-21-2017, 04:27 PM
Just because 2 groups plot near each other does not mean much at all. Especially when they share very little autosomally. For whatever reason there is a fixation that many people online have with trying to relate Ashkenazim to Sicilians, so saying things like this have somewhat become normalized. But let's say we reversed it and called Sicilians "SW Euro shifted Ashkenazim". See how little that makes sense? A bit more extreme example would be calling Hazaras "NE Asian shifted mestizos". It is a logical fallacy.

per ibd analyses the ashkenazi are actually closer related (higher segment sharing) to eastern europeans than to southern europeans; behar et al 2013 -
17653
botigue et al 2013 (p.9)
http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2013/05/30/1306223110.DCSupplemental/sapp.pdf

lukaszM
07-21-2017, 04:48 PM
Just because 2 groups plot near each other does not mean much at all. Especially when they share very little autosomally. For whatever reason there is a fixation that many people online have with trying to relate Ashkenazim to Sicilians, so saying things like this have somewhat become normalized. But let's say we reversed it and called Sicilians "SW Euro shifted Ashkenazim". See how little that makes sense? A bit more extreme example would be calling Hazaras "NE Asian shifted mestizos". It is a logical fallacy.

They share very much autosomally. It's not Khazar theory which is really out of proof genetically. In EVERY calulcator Sicilian and Askhenazi are more or less interchengeable. Sometimes Greek Islanders are also in this cluster. If it was only one ot two, you can say "calculator's effect" but not all.

Askhenazi obviously were related in early medieval to South Italy. Not the opposite. How would you explain this similarity in another way? I'm waiting for your theory.

Agamemnon
07-21-2017, 05:37 PM
Generally something simialr to Sicilian or Greek Islander but with small Eastern and North Euro admixtures.
Akshenazi isn't Europeized Levantine (from their genetic simialrity). It's rather NE-Euro shifted Sicilian:)

Come again?

wandering_amorite
07-23-2017, 07:13 PM
Also worth noting, according to above, Eastern and Western Jews are both closer to Sicilians than to one another. I wonder why this is. Western Ashkenazim seem more Levant shifted, and eastern Ashkenazim seem more Italian shifted (Abruzzo is higher on the list for eastern Ashkenazim).

Seriously, the proximity between Western Ashkenazim + Euro-Sephardim + Italkim is striking. No genetics-free historical inference would've led us to this conclusion. (Not that Eastern Ashkenazim aren't also *surprisingly* close to Sephardim, but we're talking a grade closer in the case of Western Ashkenazim + Sephardim.) I'd always been skeptical of claims that Ashkenazim have virtually no Northwestern/West-Central European ancestry, but this kind of result seems to confirm that. It might really be as simple as modeling Western Ashkenazim as Levantine + Italian, and Eastern Ashkenazim as Levantine + Italian + variable degrees of Slavic.

bryan
07-23-2017, 08:14 PM
Only Eastern (Lithuanian, Russian) Ashkenazim have some Polish, Lithuanian like admixture at low levels. German Ashkenazim seem to lack any considerable Baltic admixture and often cluster close to Sephardi Jews IMO

Agamemnon
07-23-2017, 08:30 PM
It might really be as simple as modeling Western Ashkenazim as Levantine + Italian, and Eastern Ashkenazim as Levantine + Italian + variable degrees of Slavic.

It often is. Though I really doubt Eastern Ashkenazim are closer to Abruzzesi than to Western Ashkenazim (or to Italian_Bergamo than to Cypriots for that matter).

Kingslav93
07-24-2017, 12:46 AM
Only Eastern (Lithuanian, Russian) Ashkenazim have some Polish, Lithuanian like admixture at low levels. German Ashkenazim seem to lack any considerable Baltic admixture and often cluster close to Sephardi Jews IMO

You really pushing your luck.

wandering_amorite
07-24-2017, 10:12 PM
You really pushing your luck.

Eh? He sounds about right

Kingslav93
07-24-2017, 11:04 PM
Eh? He sounds about right

Sephardi alone is not clustering with AJ unless that person has both Ashkenazi and Sephardi genes. He is wrong just like buddy telling story about slavic slaves, or is that your other account?

wandering_amorite
07-24-2017, 11:28 PM
Sephardi alone is not clustering with AJ unless that person has both Ashkenazi and Sephardi genes. He is wrong just like buddy telling story about slavic slaves, or is that your other account?

Other account? I can't take you seriously.

No: check out some German Jewish kits. Surprising stuff.

Meanwhile, I'm Eastern Ashkenazi, and I get this on Eurogenes K13:

1 South_Italian 5.03
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.47
3 East_Sicilian 5.66
4 Italian_Jewish 6.34
5 Ashkenazi 6.57

Kingslav93
07-25-2017, 12:14 AM
Other account? I can't take you seriously.

No: check out some German Jewish kits. Surprising stuff.

Meanwhile, I'm Eastern Ashkenazi, and I get this on Eurogenes K13:



1 South_Italian 5.03
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.47
3 East_Sicilian 5.66
4 Italian_Jewish 6.34
5 Ashkenazi 6.57

Interesting results, thanks for sharing. I seem to score 0% Ashkenazi on all commercial tests.

asm
07-25-2017, 01:21 AM
North Caucasian is representative of Circassians. While West Caucasian is more representative of Georgians. It has nothing to do with Europeans.


Not only Circassians.Actually Circassians are Western Caucasians.North Caucasians are Nakho-Dagestanian people.I don't know if there has been discussion on North Caucasian and West Caucasian origins i think it'd be interesting.What should actually native Caucasians be considered?Are we closer to Europe or Asia?

Targum
07-26-2017, 10:50 PM
Other account? I can't take you seriously.

No: check out some German Jewish kits. Surprising stuff.

Meanwhile, I'm Eastern Ashkenazi, and I get this on Eurogenes K13:

1 South_Italian 5.03
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.47
3 East_Sicilian 5.66
4 Italian_Jewish 6.34
5 Ashkenazi 6.57

I am also an Eastern AJ with low E. Europe admix and I also get Med Oracles on Eurogenes K13:

1 Ashkenazi 6.12
2 Italian_Jewish 8.02
3 Sephardic_Jewish 8.08
4 West_Sicilian 8.54
5 East_Sicilian 8.8

Kingslav93
07-27-2017, 08:25 PM
Other account? I can't take you seriously.

No: check out some German Jewish kits. Surprising stuff.

Meanwhile, I'm Eastern Ashkenazi, and I get this on Eurogenes K13:

1 South_Italian 5.03
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.47
3 East_Sicilian 5.66
4 Italian_Jewish 6.34
5 Ashkenazi 6.57

There is not much relevance to this post, sure you cluster close with Sephardics that is a given, but there are distinct differences between, user wandering_amorite, user Targum, and my sample. Your samples don't have any Levantine, North African Jewish, Greek Thessaly, nor Central Greek clusters. These are main Sephardic groups you are lacking in your top 5. My top 20 in K13 is distinctively altered from users wandering_amorite, Targum who are Eastern Ashkenazi. If you look at my top 20 in K15 there is even more distinct differences.

K13 User Targum- Eastern Ashkenazi

1 Ashkenazi 6.12
2 Italian_Jewish 8.02
3 Sephardic_Jewish 8.08
4 West_Sicilian 8.54
5 East_Sicilian 8.8

? I only share 2/5 clusters

K13 User wandering_amorite- Eastern Ashkenazi

1 South_Italian 5.03
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.47
3 East_Sicilian 5.66
4 Italian_Jewish 6.34
5 Ashkenazi 6.57

? I only share 2/5 clusters

I have highlited differences *****

K13-Kingslav

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 87.5% Estonian_Polish + 12.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.38*****
2 89.4% Estonian_Polish + 10.6% Italian_Jewish @ 3.44
3 89.4% Estonian_Polish + 10.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.49*****
4 86.6% Belorussian + 13.4% Ashkenazi @ 3.5
5 88.5% Belorussian + 11.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.5*****
6 88.6% Belorussian + 11.4% Italian_Jewish @ 3.6
7 78.7% Lithuanian + 21.3% Ashkenazi @ 3.66
8 90.2% Estonian_Polish + 9.8% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.7*****
9 89.7% Estonian_Polish + 10.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.72
10 81.4% Lithuanian + 18.6% Italian_Jewish @ 3.73
11 84.1% Belorussian + 15.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.76*****
12 90.3% Estonian_Polish + 9.7% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.77*****
13 85.4% Estonian_Polish + 14.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.79*****
14 87.9% Estonian_Polish + 12.1% West_Sicilian @ 3.8
15 81.4% Lithuanian + 18.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.82*****
16 88.9% Estonian_Polish + 11.1% South_Italian @ 3.84
17 87.9% Belorussian + 12.1% South_Italian @ 3.87
18 89.5% Belorussian + 10.5% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.88*****
19 88.2% Estonian_Polish + 11.8% East_Sicilian @ 3.89
20 79.6% Belorussian + 20.4% Bulgarian @ 3.9***** Bulgaria. Eastern Sephardic Community

K15-Kingslav

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 80.7% Estonian + 19.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.72*****
2 87.1% Estonian + 12.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 5.8*****
3 88.7% Estonian + 11.3% Samaritan @ 5.88*****
4 89% Estonian + 11% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.91*****
5 70.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 29.1% Estonian @ 5.94***** Lviv, Ukraine. Eastern Sephardic Community
6 87.9% Estonian + 12.1% Cyprian @ 5.95*****
7 89% Estonian + 11% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.99*****
8 77.4% Ukrainian + 22.6% Estonian @ 6.06
9 87% Estonian + 13% Algerian_Jewish @ 6.14*****
10 86.7% Estonian + 13.3% Italian_Jewish @ 6.15
11 84.7% Estonian + 15.3% Central_Greek @ 6.17*****
12 85.9% Estonian + 14.1% South_Italian @ 6.18
13 84.2% Estonian + 15.8% Ashkenazi @ 6.18
14 97.9% Ukrainian + 2.1% Yemenite_Jewish @ 6.21*****
15 85.1% Estonian + 14.9% East_Sicilian @ 6.23
16 89% Estonian + 11% Palestinian @ 6.23*****
17 89.6% Ukrainian + 10.4% Lithuanian @ 6.26
18 88.8% Estonian + 11.2% Jordanian @ 6.27*****
19 98.3% Ukrainian + 1.7% Lebanese_Druze @ 6.28*****
20 84.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 15.9% Lithuanian @ 6.29***** Lviv, Ukraine. Eastern Sephardic Community

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 09:06 PM
There is not much relevance to this post, sure you cluster close with Sephardics that is a given, but there are distinct differences between, user wandering_amorite, user Targum, and my sample. Your samples don't have any Levantine, North African Jewish, nor Greek_Thessaly or Central_Greek clusters, these are main Sephardic groups you are lacking in your top 5. My top 20 in K13 is distinctively altered from users wandering_amorite, Targum who are Eastern Ashkenazi. If you look at my top 20 in K15 there is even more distinct differences.

K13 User Targum- Eastern Ashkenazi

1 Ashkenazi 6.12
2 Italian_Jewish 8.02
3 Sephardic_Jewish 8.08
4 West_Sicilian 8.54
5 East_Sicilian 8.8

? I only share 2/5 clusters

K13 User wandering_amorite- Eastern Ashkenazi

1 South_Italian 5.03
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.47
3 East_Sicilian 5.66
4 Italian_Jewish 6.34
5 Ashkenazi 6.57

? I only share 2/5 clusters

I have highlited differences *****

K13-Kingslav

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 87.5% Estonian_Polish + 12.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.38*****
2 89.4% Estonian_Polish + 10.6% Italian_Jewish @ 3.44
3 89.4% Estonian_Polish + 10.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.49*****
4 86.6% Belorussian + 13.4% Ashkenazi @ 3.5
5 88.5% Belorussian + 11.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.5*****
6 88.6% Belorussian + 11.4% Italian_Jewish @ 3.6
7 78.7% Lithuanian + 21.3% Ashkenazi @ 3.66
8 90.2% Estonian_Polish + 9.8% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.7*****
9 89.7% Estonian_Polish + 10.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.72
10 81.4% Lithuanian + 18.6% Italian_Jewish @ 3.73
11 84.1% Belorussian + 15.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.76*****
12 90.3% Estonian_Polish + 9.7% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.77*****
13 85.4% Estonian_Polish + 14.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.79*****
14 87.9% Estonian_Polish + 12.1% West_Sicilian @ 3.8
15 81.4% Lithuanian + 18.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.82*****
16 88.9% Estonian_Polish + 11.1% South_Italian @ 3.84
17 87.9% Belorussian + 12.1% South_Italian @ 3.87
18 89.5% Belorussian + 10.5% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.88*****
19 88.2% Estonian_Polish + 11.8% East_Sicilian @ 3.89
20 79.6% Belorussian + 20.4% Bulgarian @ 3.9***** Bulgaria. Eastern Sephardic Community

K15-Kingslav

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 80.7% Estonian + 19.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.72*****
2 87.1% Estonian + 12.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 5.8*****
3 88.7% Estonian + 11.3% Samaritan @ 5.88*****
4 89% Estonian + 11% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.91*****
5 70.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 29.1% Estonian @ 5.94***** Lviv, Ukraine. Eastern Sephardic Community
6 87.9% Estonian + 12.1% Cyprian @ 5.95*****
7 89% Estonian + 11% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.99*****
8 77.4% Ukrainian + 22.6% Estonian @ 6.06
9 87% Estonian + 13% Algerian_Jewish @ 6.14*****
10 86.7% Estonian + 13.3% Italian_Jewish @ 6.15
11 84.7% Estonian + 15.3% Central_Greek @ 6.17*****
12 85.9% Estonian + 14.1% South_Italian @ 6.18
13 84.2% Estonian + 15.8% Ashkenazi @ 6.18
14 97.9% Ukrainian + 2.1% Yemenite_Jewish @ 6.21*****
15 85.1% Estonian + 14.9% East_Sicilian @ 6.23
16 89% Estonian + 11% Palestinian @ 6.23*****
17 89.6% Ukrainian + 10.4% Lithuanian @ 6.26
18 88.8% Estonian + 11.2% Jordanian @ 6.27*****
19 98.3% Ukrainian + 1.7% Lebanese_Druze @ 6.28*****
20 84.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 15.9% Lithuanian @ 6.29***** Lviv, Ukraine. Eastern Sephardic Community

Please explain the point you're trying to make here. Do you have known, documented roots among Sephardim in Lviv and/or Bulgaria? Because your Oracle results don't particularly point to them.

Kingslav93
07-27-2017, 09:28 PM
Please explain the point you're trying to make here. Do you have known, documented roots among Sephardim in Lviv and/or Bulgaria? Because your Oracle results don't particularly point to them.

Sure, I will take this time to make my point, my maternal roots come from exactly Lviv, Ukraine. Where was one of largest Eastern Sephardic community. My maternal cousins in Poland still practicing your faith now, for me I will go with Catholicism. My maternal last name is of Sephardic origins, also all first names are Eastern Sephardic. Could there be drop of Ashkenazi, who knows. To this point I have no Ashkenazi 0% showing on all commercial DNA tests, I will go with that until there is definite evidence pointing something else. Ashkenazi are similar, but there are distinct differences. Also important to know about Sephardic ethnogenesis with facts, not speculation.

Kingslav93
07-27-2017, 10:10 PM
I am also an Eastern AJ with low E. Europe admix and I also get Med Oracles on Eurogenes K13:

1 Ashkenazi 6.12
2 Italian_Jewish 8.02
3 Sephardic_Jewish 8.08
4 West_Sicilian 8.54
5 East_Sicilian 8.8

Where is your Levantine, North African, Greek Thessaly, or Central Greek clusters?

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 10:23 PM
Where is your Levantine, North African, Greek Thessaly, or Central Greek clusters?

1. They aren't clusters. They're population averages which are all very close to each other.
2. My bet? Immediately after those 5. Here's my top 20:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.03
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.47
3 East_Sicilian 5.66
4 Italian_Jewish 6.34
5 Ashkenazi 6.57
6 Central_Greek 7.33
7 West_Sicilian 7.61
8 Algerian_Jewish 7.82
9 Italian_Abruzzo 8.11
10 Tunisian_Jewish 9.35
11 Libyan_Jewish 10.05
12 Greek_Thessaly 13.1
13 Cyprian 14.01
14 Tuscan 14.04
15 Lebanese_Muslim 16.5
16 Syrian 17.45
17 Jordanian 19.5
18 Samaritan 19.53
19 Turkish 19.55
20 Palestinian 19.6

And here are my 2-way mixes:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 46.2% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.04
2 55.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 44.4% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.07
3 59.4% Lebanese_Christian + 40.6% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.6
4 59.1% Lebanese_Christian + 40.9% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.63
5 57.9% Lebanese_Christian + 42.1% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.64
6 57.4% Lebanese_Christian + 42.6% Portuguese @ 2.66
7 61.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 38.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.71
8 83.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 16.8% Romanian @ 2.84
9 88.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 11.8% Hungarian @ 2.89
10 82.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 17.9% Bulgarian @ 2.91
11 73.4% West_Sicilian + 26.6% Palestinian @ 2.93
12 85.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 14.6% Serbian @ 2.95
13 88.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 11.3% Austrian @ 2.95
14 89.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 10.6% East_German @ 2.97
15 58.8% Lebanese_Christian + 41.2% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.99
16 87.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 12.1% Moldavian @ 3
17 74.2% West_Sicilian + 25.8% Lebanese_Druze @ 3
18 88.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 11.2% Croatian @ 3
19 59.6% Lebanese_Christian + 40.4% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.04
20 57.1% Lebanese_Christian + 42.9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.04

selectivememri
07-27-2017, 10:24 PM
i'm not sure i can further this discussion, in fact i'm not entirely sure what is being argued. i have no known jewish ancestry, but i figured down the line way back i might have a jewish ancestor just because where my dad is from/some of the relative matches i've seen on various sites. in macedonia there was really only a sephardic community, but i have scored both sephardic and ashkenazi before.
my 4 oracle for k13 looks like this

1 Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + Serbian + Ukrainian @ 1.552082
2 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Serbian + Ukrainian @ 1.591603
3 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + Croatian + Serbian @ 1.642953
4 Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 1.658252
5 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + South_Polish @ 1.679858
6 Ashkenazi + Greek_Thessaly + Serbian + Ukrainian @ 1.691708
7 Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish + South_Polish + Ukrainian @ 1.711902
8 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Ukrainian @ 1.768003
9 Belorussian + Bulgarian + Greek_Thessaly + West_Sicilian @ 1.810943
10 Bulgarian + Estonian_Polish + Italian_Jewish + Romanian @ 1.820225
11 Croatian + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Jewish + Ukrainian @ 1.854993
12 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Serbian + South_Polish @ 1.857705
13 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + Romanian + Ukrainian @ 1.864860
14 Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + Romanian + Ukrainian @ 1.865410
15 Italian_Jewish + South_Italian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 1.871613
16 Italian_Jewish + Romanian + Romanian + Ukrainian @ 1.877514
17 Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Estonian_Polish + Italian_Jewish @ 1.895247
18 Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + Polish @ 1.898821
19 Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + Romanian + Russian_Smolensk @ 1.907287
20 Algerian_Jewish + Romanian + Romanian + Ukrainian @ 1.908439


from what i've seen, without those north african markers, or even with them, it seems really hard to distinguish between ashkenazi and sephardic populations?

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 10:25 PM
Sure, I will take this time to make my point, my maternal roots come from exactly Lviv, Ukraine. Where was one of largest Eastern Sephardic community. My maternal cousins in Poland still practicing your faith now, for me I will go with Catholicism. My maternal last name is of Sephardic origins, also all first names are Eastern Sephardic. Could there be drop of Ashkenazi, who knows. To this point I have no Ashkenazi 0% showing on all commercial DNA tests, I will go with that until there is definite evidence pointing something else. Ashkenazi are similar, but there are distinct differences. Also important to know about Sephardic ethnogenesis with facts, not speculation.

I'd be interested to hear more. It's inconceivable that someone with measurable Sephardic ancestry could score 99% East Europe on Ancestry, though.

(I should also note: Judaism isn't my faith. I like piyyut a lot, but I don't find my ancestors' religion spiritually inspiring.)

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 10:27 PM
It'd be most useful to compare yourself against the Macedonian population average. Macedonian Slavs tend to be more southerly than Bulgarians, Romanians, and Ukrainians, tending in the direction of Albanians, Greeks, Italians, and by extension, European Jews.

Kingslav93
07-27-2017, 10:41 PM
1. They aren't clusters. They're population averages which are all very close to each other.
2. My bet? Immediately after those 5. Here's my top 20:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.03
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.47
3 East_Sicilian 5.66
4 Italian_Jewish 6.34
5 Ashkenazi 6.57
6 Central_Greek 7.33
7 West_Sicilian 7.61
8 Algerian_Jewish 7.82
9 Italian_Abruzzo 8.11
10 Tunisian_Jewish 9.35
11 Libyan_Jewish 10.05
12 Greek_Thessaly 13.1
13 Cyprian 14.01
14 Tuscan 14.04
15 Lebanese_Muslim 16.5
16 Syrian 17.45
17 Jordanian 19.5
18 Samaritan 19.53
19 Turkish 19.55
20 Palestinian 19.6

And here are my 2-way mixes:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 46.2% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.04
2 55.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 44.4% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.07
3 59.4% Lebanese_Christian + 40.6% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.6
4 59.1% Lebanese_Christian + 40.9% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.63
5 57.9% Lebanese_Christian + 42.1% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.64
6 57.4% Lebanese_Christian + 42.6% Portuguese @ 2.66
7 61.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 38.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.71
8 83.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 16.8% Romanian @ 2.84
9 88.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 11.8% Hungarian @ 2.89
10 82.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 17.9% Bulgarian @ 2.91
11 73.4% West_Sicilian + 26.6% Palestinian @ 2.93
12 85.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 14.6% Serbian @ 2.95
13 88.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 11.3% Austrian @ 2.95
14 89.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 10.6% East_German @ 2.97
15 58.8% Lebanese_Christian + 41.2% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.99
16 87.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 12.1% Moldavian @ 3
17 74.2% West_Sicilian + 25.8% Lebanese_Druze @ 3
18 88.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 11.2% Croatian @ 3
19 59.6% Lebanese_Christian + 40.4% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.04
20 57.1% Lebanese_Christian + 42.9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.04

The method you are implying is a comparison of apple and oranges. Im not worried about your 2 population averages, you are very mixed to begin with so showing 2 populations is irrelevant for you, 2 populations is accurate for me with my ethnicity. You might even have drop of Sephardic genes like many Ashkenazi, which is alters your result even more. When we looking at your top 10 single population, we only share 3/10 of the possible elements, not very convincing.

selectivememri
07-27-2017, 10:42 PM
oh yeah, i'm pretty much inline with macedonian averages, when i check mixed mode oracles that have a macedonian category i'm usually 95% macedonian with 5% georgian or north caucasian,, but just in response to kingslav's posts which (i believe?) were saying that ashkenazi and sephardic are unique from each other (forgive me if that isn't your argument), i was just posting that to show that my oracle seems to assign ashkenazi and sephardic as my 'jewish component' interchangeably

Targum
07-27-2017, 10:50 PM
Where is your Levantine, North African, Greek Thessaly, or Central Greek clusters?


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 35.47
2 North_Atlantic 20.69
3 West_Med 16.56
4 West_Asian 9.58
5 Baltic 6.81
6 Red_Sea 6.67
7 Siberian 1.57
8 East_Asian 1.22
9 Oceanian 0.58
10 South_Asian 0.52
11 Sub-Saharan 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi 6.12
2 Italian_Jewish 8.02
3 Sephardic_Jewish 8.08
4 West_Sicilian 8.54
5 East_Sicilian 8.8
6 South_Italian 9.05
7 Italian_Abruzzo 9.53
8 Central_Greek 10
9 Algerian_Jewish 10.24
10 Tunisian_Jewish 11.77
11 Libyan_Jewish 12.86
12 Greek_Thessaly 13.26
13 Tuscan 13.32
14 Cyprian 17.46
15 North_Italian 19.65
16 Lebanese_Muslim 20
17 Bulgarian 20.82
18 Syrian 20.96
19 Palestinian 21.71
20 Lebanese_Druze 21.78

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 10:54 PM
Ashkenazi and Sephardi averages are so close together, that it's really just a matter of reshuffling the elements. Ashkenazi might be paired with something slightly more southerly, and Sephardi to something slightly more northerly, to obtain the same average.

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 10:55 PM
Let's see your top 20. Wonder how far you are from the W. Ukrainian average.

Kingslav93
07-27-2017, 11:00 PM
I'd be interested to hear more. It's inconceivable that someone with measurable Sephardic ancestry could score 99% East Europe on Ancestry, though.

(I should also note: Judaism isn't my faith. I like piyyut a lot, but I don't find my ancestors' religion spiritually inspiring.)

Inconceivable is big word to be using.

Ancestry DNA
Europe East 99%
Finland/Northwest Russia >1%

DNALAND
North Slavic 84%
Southwestern European 12.2%****
Balkan 2.6%
Mediterranean Islander 1.2%*****

Inconceivable? Certainly is there, Balkan could also be influence from Italkim, Romaniote Jews, we know Sephardic arrived on the shores of Greece, Turkey.

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 11:03 PM
I've seen you post everything *but* your top 20 populations from Eurogenes. You damn well know you're not far off the W. Ukrainian/S. Polish average. Stop bullshitting us.

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 11:09 PM
Found it, using your kit number that you posted elsewhere:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian 5.66
2 Southwest_Russian 5.79
3 Estonian_Polish 6.63
4 South_Polish 6.8
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.97
6 Belorussian 7.1
7 Polish 7.24
8 Russian_Smolensk 7.42
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 7.5
10 Croatian 10.27
11 Kargopol_Russian 10.54
12 Lithuanian 11.48
13 Estonian 11.71
14 Erzya 12.4
15 Moldavian 12.98
16 Finnish 13.08
17 East_Finnish 13.51
18 Southwest_Finnish 13.75
19 Hungarian 13.86
20 East_German 16.07

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 11:13 PM
MDLP K23b:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian_West ( ) 2.87
2 Slovak ( ) 3.44
3 Sorb ( ) 3.52
4 Kashub ( ) 3.63
5 Ukrainian_Center ( ) 4.8
6 Belarusian_West ( ) 4.96
7 Belarusian-East ( ) 4.96
8 Czech ( ) 5.02
9 Ukrainian_East ( ) 5.42
10 Russian_South ( ) 5.73
11 Russian-West ( ) 5.84
12 Ukrainian ( ) 6.5
13 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 6.54
14 Russian_North ( ) 6.64
15 Russian-North-West ( ) 6.67
16 Don_cossack ( ) 6.98
17 Hungarian ( ) 7.29
18 Slovenian ( ) 7.45
19 Pole ( ) 7.52
20 Russian_Meshtchyora ( ) 7.74

Kingslav93
07-27-2017, 11:14 PM
I've seen you post everything *but* your top 20 populations from Eurogenes. You damn well know you're not far off the W. Ukrainian/S. Polish average. Stop bullshitting us.

What are you implying here, Poles and Western Ukrainians are related AJ? This what happen when you reading too many American edited textbooks. If you are interested in real Poles and Ukrainian genetics, I have kindly post them for you in my username. 0% Ashkenazi.

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 11:16 PM
Yes, Poles and Ukrainians are genetically similar to each other. Sorry if that bursts your bubble. I am not implying that you're at all Ashkenazi OR Sephardi. You seem like a rather typical East-Central European, genetically.

Kingslav93
07-27-2017, 11:25 PM
Yes, Poles and Ukrainians are genetically similar to each other. Sorry if that bursts your bubble. I am not implying that you're at all Ashkenazi OR Sephardi. You seem like a rather typical East-Central European, genetically.

Thanks for genious knowledge, Poles and Ukrainians are similar. We certainly not AJ. You are mostly Italic, Khazar that proof can be found examining wandering_amorite, Targum samples, top heavy with Italic, Khazar influences. No Levantine, North African, Greek, influence. You can not fool me.

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 11:28 PM
Thanks for genious knowledge, Poles and Ukrainians are similar. We certainly not AJ. You are mostly Italic, Khazar that proof can be found examining wandering_amorite, Targum samples, top heavy with Italic, Khazar influences. No Levantine, North African, Greek, influence. You can not fool me.

Yes, because an Italian Khazar could be modeled as 60% Lebanese and 40% Spanish. Ashkenazim can be modeled as Sephardim + 10-15% East/Central European, and your ignorance of this is pathetic and ideological. You are neither Ashkenazi or Sephardi—this much is clear. As you've bragged in past post, you are REAL PURE SLAV—mazal tov.

Time for a ban, methinks. You're a child.

Roaring
07-27-2017, 11:32 PM
Yes, Poles and Ukrainians are genetically similar to each other. Sorry if that bursts your bubble. I am not implying that you're at all Ashkenazi OR Sephardi. You seem like a rather typical East-Central European, genetically.

He is not actually, when dealing with such low admixtures as 1\8 you should look a bit deeper.

In case of King Slav here are his K13 results:

K13


Population

North_Atlantic 26.72
Baltic 45.32
West_Med 10.53
West_Asian 2.66
East_Med 10.40
Red_Sea 0.22
South_Asian 0.61
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.79
Amerindian 0.69
Oceanian 0.35
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.72


He shows typical East Slav\Polish results with exception of East-Med.

Ukrainians according to spreadsheet get 5% while he gets 10%, huge difference. Also looking at spreadsheet we can see that East-Med is biggest component among Sephardis.

All this points to KingSlav indeed having Sephardi\similar admixture despite of being overall pretty similar to Ukrainians.

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 11:33 PM
This doesn't hold up across different calc's. Also, I think at this point it's clear we're dealing with an incoherent fantasist.

Also, FWIW—it's impossible to distinguish between minor Sephardi and minor Ashkenazi ancestry on Oracle. If he has Jewish ancestry from Lviv, the odds are that it's Ashkenazi. But his obvious prejudice, on display above, drives him to the unlikelier possibility.

Kingslav93
07-27-2017, 11:35 PM
Yes, because an Italian Khazar could be modeled as 60% Lebanese and 40% Spanish. Ashkenazim can be modeled as Sephardim + 10-15% East/Central European, and your ignorance of this is pathetic and ideological. You are neither Ashkenazi or Sephardi—this much is clear. As you've bragged in past post, you are REAL PURE SLAV—mazal tov.

Time for a ban, methinks. You're a child.

Time for a ban. Did I say offensive statement, Ashkenazi are mostly Italic, Khazar and the proof can be found in your sample. We are free to discuss the genetics, this is genetics forum.

Kingslav93
07-27-2017, 11:36 PM
He is not actually, when dealing with such low admixtures as 1\8 you should look a bit deeper.

In case of King Slav here are his K13 results:


He shows typical East Slav\Polish results with exception of East-Med.

Ukrainians according to spreadsheet get 5% while he gets 10%, huge difference. Also looking at spreadsheet we can see that East-Med is biggest component among Sephardis.

All this points to KingSlav indeed having Sephardi\similar admixture despite of being overall pretty similar to Ukrainians.

God bless you brother.

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 11:39 PM
Time for a ban. Did I say offensive statement, Ashkenazi are mostly Italic, Khazar and the proof can be found in your sample. We are free to discuss the genetics, this is genetics forum.

Yeah? Show me the proof. I average closer to Sephardi than Ashkenazi in K13, so to claim that there's an essential difference is plain dumb. Both Sephardim and Ashkenazim have substantial Italian ancestry. I have no clue of what hint of Khazar ancestry you're picking up on.

Tell me where the 60% Lebanese Christian in Oracle comes from, then. Or my Y-haplogroup.

Meanwhile, let's hear more about those Sephardi names in your family tree. I'm curious, but highly skeptical.

Kingslav93
07-27-2017, 11:43 PM
Yeah? Show me the proof. I average closer to Sephardi than Ashkenazi in K13, so to claim that there's an essential difference is plain dumb. Both Sephardim and Ashkenazim have substantial Italian ancestry. I have no clue of what hint of Khazar ancestry you're picking up on.

Meanwhile, let's hear more about those Sephardi names in your family tree. I'm curious, but highly skeptical.

You can be skeptical, I am who I am, there is other genetists on here who have dismissed your accusations already, I have provided for you enough data proof.

Roaring
07-27-2017, 11:44 PM
This doesn't hold up across different calc's. Also, I think at this point it's clear we're dealing with an incoherent fantasist.

Also, FWIW—it's impossible to distinguish between minor Sephardi and minor Ashkenazi ancestry on Oracle. If he has Jewish ancestry from Lviv, the odds are that it's Ashkenazi. But his obvious prejudice, on display above, drives him to the unlikelier possibility.

Well, it hold's up in K15 also.

I didn't say that his admix is def. Sephardi, could be Ashkenazi aswell or any other East-Med shifted, but i see no reason not to believe him, since his dna does go hand in hand with what he says.

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 11:48 PM
Well, it hold's up in K15 also.

I didn't say that his admix is def. Sephardi, could be Ashkenazi aswell or any other East-Med shifted, but i see no reason not to believe him, since his dna does go hand in hand with what he says.

MDLP K23b—not Caucasian-shifted or EEF-shifted at all:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 49.04
2 Caucasian 28.56
3 European_Early_Farmers 11.91
4 Ancestral_Altaic 4.03
5 Near_East 1.55
6 South_Central_Asian 1.17
7 South_Indian 1
8 Amerindian 0.98
9 Khoisan 0.43
10 East_Siberian 0.31
11 Subsaharian 0.3
12 East_African 0.26
13 Melano_Polynesian 0.17
14 African_Pygmy 0.12
15 Archaic_African 0.07
16 Archaic_Human 0.05
17 South_East_Asian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian_West ( ) 2.87
2 Slovak ( ) 3.44
3 Sorb ( ) 3.52
4 Kashub ( ) 3.63
5 Ukrainian_Center ( ) 4.8
6 Belarusian_West ( ) 4.96
7 Belarusian-East ( ) 4.96
8 Czech ( ) 5.02
9 Ukrainian_East ( ) 5.42
10 Russian_South ( ) 5.73
11 Russian-West ( ) 5.84
12 Ukrainian ( ) 6.5
13 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 6.54
14 Russian_North ( ) 6.64
15 Russian-North-West ( ) 6.67
16 Don_cossack ( ) 6.98
17 Hungarian ( ) 7.29
18 Slovenian ( ) 7.45
19 Pole ( ) 7.52
20 Russian_Meshtchyora ( ) 7.74

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.1% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 16.9% Belgian ( ) @ 1.97
2 83.3% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 16.7% Frisian ( ) @ 2.01
3 85.7% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 14.3% English_Kent_GBR ( ) @ 2.03
4 87.6% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 12.4% French ( ) @ 2.06
5 86.3% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 13.7% English_Cornwall_GBR ( ) @ 2.1
6 79.1% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 20.9% German-Volga ( ) @ 2.11
7 86.8% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 13.2% British ( ) @ 2.15
8 67.3% Russian-West ( ) + 32.7% Serb_Serbia ( ) @ 2.16
9 92.5% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 7.5% French_South ( ) @ 2.17
10 94.9% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 5.1% Basque_French ( ) @ 2.18
11 94.8% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 5.2% Basque_Spanish ( ) @ 2.18
12 94% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 6% Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS ( ) @ 2.19
13 91.8% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 8.2% Spanish_Aragon_IBS ( ) @ 2.19
14 91.8% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 8.2% Spanish_Cantabria_IBS ( ) @ 2.2
15 84.4% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 15.6% Irish ( ) @ 2.22
16 91.3% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 8.7% Spanish_Valencia_IBS ( ) @ 2.23
17 55.7% Balt ( ) + 44.3% Serb_Serbia ( ) @ 2.23
18 71.6% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 28.4% Austrian ( ) @ 2.24
19 91.6% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 8.4% Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha_IBS ( ) @ 2.24
20 81.3% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 18.7% Dutch ( )

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 11:50 PM
Dodecad K12b—just a bit Atlantic Med-shifted.

# Population Percent
1 North_European 55.47
2 Atlantic_Med 23.07
3 Caucasus 13.57
4 Gedrosia 2.99
5 Southwest_Asian 1.97
6 Siberian 1.71
7 East_Asian 0.46
8 East_African 0.44
9 South_Asian 0.29
10 Southeast_Asian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 8.02
2 Polish (Dodecad) 8.1
3 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 9.58
4 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 10.34
5 German (Dodecad) 12.69
6 Russian (Dodecad) 13.35
7 Belorussian (Behar) 13.48
8 Russian_B (Behar) 14.17
9 Mordovians (Yunusbayev) 14.58
10 Swedish (Dodecad) 15.08
11 Russian (HGDP) 15.5
12 Norwegian (Dodecad) 17.77
13 Lithuanian (Dodecad) 19.33
14 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 20.26
15 Dutch (Dodecad) 20.29
16 FIN30 (1000Genomes) 22.37
17 Lithuanians (Behar) 22.56
18 Romanians (Behar) 22.61
19 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 22.99
20 English (Dodecad) 23.23

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 37.3% Russian (Dodecad) @ 1.4
2 81.3% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 18.7% Andalucia (1000Genomes) @ 1.52
3 73.6% Russian_B (Behar) + 26.4% Cataluna (1000Genomes) @ 1.61
4 75.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 24.8% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 1.62
5 74.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 25.9% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 1.64
6 74.8% Russian (Dodecad) + 25.2% Baleares (1000Genomes) @ 1.65
7 79.4% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 20.6% Baleares (1000Genomes) @ 1.67
8 74.5% Russian_B (Behar) + 25.5% Spaniards (Behar) @ 1.7
9 57.2% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) + 42.8% German (Dodecad) @ 1.73
10 71.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 28.9% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 1.73
11 56.6% Hungarians (Behar) + 43.4% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 1.74
12 75.6% Russian_B (Behar) + 24.4% Castilla_La_Mancha (1000Genomes) @ 1.75
13 68.2% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) + 31.8% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 1.79
14 74% Hungarians (Behar) + 26% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.8
15 80.2% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 19.8% Spaniards (Behar) @ 1.81
16 66% Russian_B (Behar) + 34% French (HGDP) @ 1.82
17 79.4% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 20.6% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 1.83
18 83.7% Russian (Dodecad) + 16.3% Sardinian (HGDP) @ 1.84
19 74% Russian (Dodecad) + 26% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 1.88
20 75.5% Russian_B (Behar) + 24.5% Valencia (1000Genomes) @ 1.88

Roaring
07-27-2017, 11:51 PM
MDLP K23b—not Caucasian-shifted or EEF-shifted at all:



Because he's not EEF-shifted overall, just his neolithic ancestry is of East-Med type more than of West-Med one, MDLP K23b is just not made for such tasks as we dealing with now.

Kingslav93
07-27-2017, 11:52 PM
Well, it hold's up in K15 also.

I didn't say that his admix is def. Sephardi, could be Ashkenazi aswell or any other East-Med shifted, but i see no reason not to believe him, since his dna does go hand in hand with what he says.

This question is what got my attention to DNA testing few years ago in first place, could there be some Ashkenazi or not, from my Sephardic side? I wanted know this, and am still not ignorant to this possibility, but based off paper trail, and DNA results 0% Ashkenazi is definitive results for now.

wandering_amorite
07-27-2017, 11:54 PM
This question is what got my attention to DNA testing few years ago in first place, could there be some Ashkenazi or not, from my Sephardic side? I wanted know this, and am still not ignorant to this possibility, but based off paper trail, and DNA results 0% Ashkenazi is definitive results for now.

Can you please tell me more about your Sephardi side? Names like Franco, Abarbanel? A remembered family tradition? You're very cagey about this. And by the way Ashkenazim aren't Khazars.

Roaring
07-27-2017, 11:56 PM
This question is what got my attention to DNA testing few years ago in first place, could there be some Ashkenazi or not, from my Sephardic side? I wanted know this, and am still not ignorant to this possibility, but based off paper trail, and DNA results 0% Ashkenazi is definitive results for now.

Do 23andme, they are superior in terms of detecting Ashkenazi admixture.

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 12:00 AM
Because he's not EEF-shifted overall, just his neolithic ancestry is of East-Med type more than of West-Med one, MDLP K23b is just not made for such tasks as we dealing with now.

Seph average on K23b: 36 Caucasian, 22 EEF, 14 Near Eastern, 10 North African, Euro HG 5
Ukraine West: 29 Caucasian, 11 EEF, 2.2 Near Eastern, 1 North African, Euro HG 48
Kingslav: 29 Caucasian, 12 EEF, 1.5 Near Eastern, 1 North African, Euro HG 49

Point being: the seeming East Med shift observed on Eurogenes doesn't hold up across different calculators. Meanwhile, Ancestry says he's 99% Eastern European. Looks like it, doesn't it?

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 12:02 AM
Can you please tell me more about your Sephardi side? Names like Franco, Abarbanel? A remembered family tradition? You're very cagey about this. And by the way Ashkenazim aren't Khazars.

Number 1, your theorys have already been debunked, anything you say moving forward should be highly questioned. Number 2, I will not discuss family matters details with just anyone. Number 3, we are analyzing data here, not fairy tales.

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 12:03 AM
Number 1, your theorys have already been debunked, anything you say moving forward should be highly questioned. Number 2, I will not discuss family matters details with just anyone. Number 3, we are analyzing data here, not fairy tales.

Alright. Tell me more about how your Khazar idea is rooted in data, rather than fairy tales.
Also, no, someone you agree with questioned my findings. Haven't been debunked.

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 12:07 AM
Do 23andme, they are superior in terms of detecting Ashkenazi admixture.

Yes, I will get around to doing the 23andme test soon, I have read they have more accuracy for people like me. Is it true 23andme is using same chip as DNALAND? Or similar?

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 12:08 AM
Kingslav93,

Also explain why you previously said

"Some people just mad Poles keeping pure gene pool over centuries. I am 100% Indo-European based off results Ancestry, Wegene, and also DNALAND very close. Many Poles results parallel with mine. There is not many groups that can claim homogeneous existence in this modern era. Poles however is 1 group of very few that stood test of time. Some other Europeans envious of this."

and

"No J2A1 in my slav bloodline."

If you're Sephardic, you are surely not 100% Indo-European, and odds are, you have plenty of Levantine J and E ancestors. Which story is it? When you joined this forum, you mentioned several possible local origins in Eastern Europe, but you didn't allude to knowledge of Jewish roots.

Agamemnon
07-28-2017, 12:13 AM
I am also an Eastern AJ with low E. Europe admix and I also get Med Oracles on Eurogenes K13:

1 Ashkenazi 6.12
2 Italian_Jewish 8.02
3 Sephardic_Jewish 8.08
4 West_Sicilian 8.54
5 East_Sicilian 8.8

My Father:

1 Ashkenazi 2.87
2 East_Sicilian 6.42
3 Italian_Jewish 6.68
4 South_Italian 6.8
5 Sephardic_Jewish 7.56
6 Algerian_Jewish 7.57
7 Central_Greek 7.94
8 West_Sicilian 8.24
9 Italian_Abruzzo 9.54
10 Tunisian_Jewish 11
11 Libyan_Jewish 11.67
12 Greek_Thessaly 11.95
13 Tuscan 14.2
14 Cyprian 14.68
15 Lebanese_Muslim 18.14
16 Syrian 19.35
17 Bulgarian 20
18 Samaritan 20.26
19 Palestinian 20.47
20 Jordanian 20.61

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 12:23 AM
Kingslav93,

Also explain why you previously said

"Some people just mad Poles keeping pure gene pool over centuries. I am 100% Indo-European based off results Ancestry, Wegene, and also DNALAND very close. Many Poles results parallel with mine. There is not many groups that can claim homogeneous existence in this modern era. Poles however is 1 group of very few that stood test of time. Some other Europeans envious of this."

and

"No J2A1 in my slav bloodline."

If you're Sephardic, you are surely not 100% Indo-European, and odds are, you have plenty of Levantine J and E ancestors. Which story is it? When you joined this forum, you mentioned several possible local origins in Eastern Europe, but you didn't allude to knowledge of Jewish roots.

This has nothing to do with my results, what I said makes sense, Ancestry has me Slavic, Wegene has me Slavic, DNALAND has me Sephardic Slavic. If you read these forum you know there is overlap with some of these region. The Indo-European was a joke I said to user Rethel if I remember correctly, you are now using this joke against me like this courtroom lol. I have done nothing wrong here only state my views on subject, my hands are clean.

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 12:26 AM
My Father:

1 Ashkenazi 2.87
2 East_Sicilian 6.42
3 Italian_Jewish 6.68
4 South_Italian 6.8
5 Sephardic_Jewish 7.56
6 Algerian_Jewish 7.57
7 Central_Greek 7.94
8 West_Sicilian 8.24
9 Italian_Abruzzo 9.54
10 Tunisian_Jewish 11
11 Libyan_Jewish 11.67
12 Greek_Thessaly 11.95
13 Tuscan 14.2
14 Cyprian 14.68
15 Lebanese_Muslim 18.14
16 Syrian 19.35
17 Bulgarian 20
18 Samaritan 20.26
19 Palestinian 20.47
20 Jordanian 20.61

Third sample with no Levant, North African or Greek in top 5 scores for Ashkenazi. I will make database

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 12:27 AM
Third sample with no Levant, North African or Greek in top 5 scores for Ashkenazi. I will make database

lolololol you truly don't understand how this works

1. European Sephardim also won't have Levant, North Africa, or Mainland Greek populations in their top 5.
2. These Western Jewish, Southern Italian, and Greek Island populations are so close in terms of ancient components that their ranking is more or less interchangeable. On Eurogenes K36, my top population is the Greek island of Kalymnos. On Gedrosia Neolithic Near East K13, I'm about equidistant between Ashkenazi and Moroccan Jewish.

Please tell me about the Khazar thing, btw.

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 12:34 AM
lolololol you truly don't understand how this works

1. European Sephardim also won't have Levant, North Africa, or Greek populations in their top 5.
2. These Western Jewish, Southern Italian, and Greek Island populations are so close in terms of ancient components that their ranking is more or less interchangeable. On Eurogenes K36, my top population is the Greek island of Kalymnos.



Please tell me about the Khazar thing, btw.

You have been exposed buddy, my work here is done, shalom.

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 12:35 AM
Exposed as?

ALSO, if you want to make any sense, please explain where you see the Khazar influence in Ashkenazi Oracle results.

Roaring
07-28-2017, 12:37 AM
Yes, I will get around to doing the 23andme test soon, I have read they have more accuracy for people like me. Is it true 23andme is using same chip as DNALAND? Or similar?

I don't know.


Seph average on K23b: 36 Caucasian, 22 EEF, 14 Near Eastern, 10 North African, Euro HG 5
Ukraine West: 29 Caucasian, 11 EEF, 2.2 Near Eastern, 1 North African, Euro HG 48
Kingslav: 29 Caucasian, 12 EEF, 1.5 Near Eastern, 1 North African, Euro HG 49

Point being: the seeming East Med shift observed on Eurogenes doesn't hold up across different calculators. Meanwhile, Ancestry says he's 99% Eastern European. Looks like it, doesn't it?


Because k23b is simply not made for it. In his case we should use K13\K15, because it's made to distinguish between West\East med, while K23b is operating in more general terms such as WHG\EEF\ANE, which are not precise enough if we are dealing with 1\8 of Sephardi admixture.

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 12:42 AM
I don't know.




Because k23b is simply not made for it. In his case we should use K13\K15, because it's made to distinguish between West\East med, while K23b is operating in more general terms such as WHG\EEF\ANE, which are not precise enough if we are dealing with 1\8 of Sephardi admixture.

Eurogenes K36 should be plenty precise:

Arabian 0 Average for Ukrainian West: 0; Average for Sephardi: 8
Armenian 0 Average for Ukrainian West: 1.71 ; Average for Sephardi: 3.95
East_Med 0.81 Average for Ukrainian West: 0.32; Average for Sephardi: 14.18
Italian 1.11 Average for Ukrainian West: 2.32; Average for Sephardi: 14.99
Near_Eastern 0 Average for Ukrainian West: 0; Average for Sephardi: 17.37

Agamemnon
07-28-2017, 12:45 AM
Third sample with no Levant, North African or Greek in top 5 scores for AJ. I will make database.

No Levant, sure. In the meantime, here are a couple of nMonte fits I obtained with my father's results...

Using Eurogenes K13:

[1] "distance%=4.5679 / distance=0.045679"

Lebanese_Druze 51.10
North_Italian 45.95
Belorussian 2.95

[1] "distance%=4.7412 / distance=0.047412"

Lebanese_Druze 50.4
North_Italian 49.6

[1] "distance%=5.5856 / distance=0.055856"

Samaritan 52.6
North_Italian 42.7
Lithuanian 4.7

[1] "distance%=6.0024 / distance=0.060024"

Samaritan 50.9
North_Italian 49.1


Using K7 (Avar improves the fit, it needs to be added to the Levantine populations in such fits):

[1] "distance%=0.2895 / distance=0.002895"

Arab_Israel_1:GS000016206 36.60
Italian_Bergamo:average 27.70
Lebanese_Christian:average 16.80
Lithuanian:average 14.05
French_East:average 1.85
Chuvash:average 1.60
Arab_Israel_1:GS000016885 1.40

[1] "distance%=0.2896 / distance=0.002896"

Arab_Israel_1:GS000016206 37.6
Italian_Bergamo:average 27.4
Lebanese_Christian:average 17.2
Lithuanian:average 14.0
French_East:average 2.1
Chuvash:average 1.6

[1] "distance%=0.2905 / distance=0.002905"

Arab_Israel_1:GS000016206 35.05
Italian_Bergamo:average 25.95
Lebanese_Christian:average 20.00
Lithuanian:average 13.05
French_East:average 4.40
Chuvash:average 1.55

[1] "distance%=0.2934 / distance=0.002934"

Lebanese_Christian:average 50.00
Italian_Bergamo:average 36.15
Lithuanian:average 6.95
Avar:average 4.15
Chuvash:average 1.60
French_East:average 1.15

[1] "distance%=0.4398 / distance=0.004398"

Druze:average 55.0
Italian_Bergamo:average 33.4
Lithuanian:average 11.6

I could go on and on and on like this... He's always over 50% Levantine, usually anywhere between 55% and 60% (57% Levantine on average). How do you explain that, already?

AJL
07-28-2017, 12:45 AM
My Father:

Perhaps an even more compelling argument is to look at mixed mode of an Ashkenazi person.17784

Agamemnon
07-28-2017, 12:53 AM
Perhaps an even more compelling argument is to look at mixed mode of an Ashkenazi person.17784

Doubt that, he'll just argue that Ashkenazi is Khazar or something similar. What I did with nMonte is more telling IMO, I basically showed him how Ashkenazi can be proxied (basically ~57% Levantine + ~30% Italian + Minor East Euro).

Either way, Lebanese_Druze is all over the place in my father's K13 Oracles:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 35.78
2 West_Med 19.04
3 North_Atlantic 16.71
4 West_Asian 10.89
5 Baltic 8.63
6 Red_Sea 5.33
7 South_Asian 1.95
8 East_Asian 1.13


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi @ 3.101251
2 East_Sicilian @ 7.326695
3 Italian_Jewish @ 7.545469
4 South_Italian @ 7.575171
5 Sephardic_Jewish @ 8.415627
6 Algerian_Jewish @ 8.678719
7 Central_Greek @ 8.723615
8 West_Sicilian @ 9.429933
9 Italian_Abruzzo @ 11.075230
10 Tunisian_Jewish @ 12.082103
11 Libyan_Jewish @ 12.906342
12 Greek_Thessaly @ 13.430422
13 Tuscan @ 16.400160
14 Cyprian @ 16.886238
15 Lebanese_Muslim @ 20.668343
16 Syrian @ 21.793491
17 Bulgarian @ 22.947962
18 Samaritan @ 23.039751
19 Palestinian @ 23.238127
20 Jordanian @ 23.471920

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +50% Ashkenazi @ 3.101251


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +25% Lebanese_Druze +25% North_Italian @ 2.525128


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Druze + North_Italian @ 2.525128
2 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish @ 2.525799
3 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.711972
4 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + South_Italian @ 2.860894
5 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish @ 2.903197
6 Ashkenazi + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish @ 2.938966
7 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + East_Sicilian + Italian_Jewish @ 2.978379
8 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Italian_Abruzzo + Italian_Jewish @ 3.034344
9 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + West_Sicilian @ 3.048953
10 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Druze + Tuscan @ 3.057564
11 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + South_Italian @ 3.063796
12 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Christian + North_Italian @ 3.100687
13 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi @ 3.101251
14 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + North_Italian @ 3.144769
15 Ashkenazi + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.182374
16 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi @ 3.191588
17 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Druze + North_Italian @ 3.219344
18 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Sephardic_Jewish + West_Sicilian @ 3.296786
19 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Central_Greek + Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.331463
20 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Jewish @ 3.357651

Like I said, doubt it'll change his mind.

Principe
07-28-2017, 02:25 AM
You think by now, after all the numerous genetic papers that disproves the Khazar theory it would finally be put away, not only does autosomal dna disproves the Khazar but also uniparental markers.

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 03:16 AM
Even more decisive proof can be found here that will shake up "fan club" on this thread. Check it out wandering_amorite lol. Kingslav K36 vs compared with 54 Polish K36 samples

Population-K36 Kingslav

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 0.61 *****
Central_African -
Central_Euro 10.84
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.37 *****
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 26.61
East_Med 0.81 *****
Eastern_Euro 16.42
Fennoscandian 11.57
French 6.04
Iberian 7.39 *****
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 1.11 *****
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 2.32
North_Caucasian 3.48 *****
North_Sea 7.28
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy 0.09 *****
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African 0.05 *****
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -


vs Average results of 54 Polish samples in Eurogenes K36 calculator:

Admixture present in x/54 Poles (% range) - avg. %

1) East_Central_Euro 54/54 (17.83 - 33.17) - 24.38
2) Eastern_Euro 54/54 (9.24 - 22.15) - 16.05
3) Fennoscandian 54/54 (6.02 - 16.44) - 12.10
4) North_Sea 54/54 (2.74 - 15.89) - 9.73
5) Central_Euro 54/54 (4.92 - 12.94) - 9.31
6) North_Atlantic 54/54 (0.64 - 12.06) - 6.90
7) East_Balkan 53/54 (1.23 - 11.54) - 6.24 ***** Kingslav 5.37 ***** peaks in Thessaly, Greece

8) Iberian 53/54 (0.06 - 9.0) - 4.57 ***** Kingslav 7.39 ***** peaks in Zaragoza, Spain
9) French 52/54 (1.29 - 7.96) - 4.07
10) Italian 43/54 (0.07 - 11.47) - 3.07 ***** Kingslav 1.11 ***** peaks in Tuscany, Italy
11) Basque 40/54 (0.14 - 3.5) - 1.13 ***** Kingslav 0.61 ***** peaks in Zaragoza, Spain
12) Volga-Ural 38/54 (0.12 - 4.63) - 1.03
13) North_Caucasian 21/54 (0.05 - 5.73) - 0.60 ***** Kingslav 3.48 ***** peaks in Elista, Russia

14) West_Med 14/54 (0.1 - 2.35) - 0.21
15) West_Caucasian 9/54 (0.19 - 2.68) - 0.21
16) Armenian 8/54 (0.07 - 3.19) - 0.15
17) East_Med 1/54 (3.77) - 0.07 ***** Kingslav 0.81 ***** peaks in Beirut, Lebanon
18) South_Central_Asian 4/54 (0.26 - 1.11) - 0.05
19) Amerindian 5/54 (0.13 - 1.17) - 0.05
20) Oceanian 4/54 (0.06 - 0.67) - 0.02
21) Arabian 1/54 (1.04) - 0.02
22) West_African 2/54 (0.3 - 0.38) - 0.01 ***** Kingslav 0.05 ***** peaks in Bamako, Mali
23) Northeast_African 1/54 (0.24) - 0.004

24) Siberian 0/54 - 0.00
25) East_Asian 0/54 - 0.00
26) East_Central_Asian 0/54 - 0.00
27) Indo-Chinese 0/54 - 0.00
28) South_Chinese 0/54 - 0.00
29) South_Asian 0/54 - 0.00
30) Malayan 0/54 - 0.00
31) Near_Eastern 0/54 - 0.00
32) North_African 0/54 - 0.00
33) East_African 0/54 - 0.00
34) Omotic 0/54 - 0.00
35) Central_African 0/54 - 0.00
36) Pygmy 0/54 - 0.00 ***** Kingslav 0.09 ***** peaks in Bangul, Central African Republic


- Balkan input is there
- Iberian input double
- Italian Tuscan input low 1.11% (Ashkenazi?)
- Basque input is there
- North Caucasian input 3.48% (most likely Tatar, other possibilities)
- East Med input 0.81% (1/54 Polish sample score this, I have)
- West African input 0.05% (2/54 Polish sample score this, I have)
- Pygmy African input 0.09% (0/54 Polish sample score this, I have)

Evidence is in front of you.

Tz85
07-28-2017, 03:48 AM
If you'd like to see legit Sephardic admixture, here you go...

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 20.36
2 East_Med 20.07
3 Baltic 19.56
4 West_Med 16.08
5 West_Asian 9.97
6 East_Asian 4.07
7 Northeast_African 3.21
8 South_Asian 2.07
9 Sub-Saharan 1.23
10 Red_Sea 1.21


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bulgarian @ 7.563538
2 Romanian @ 8.723226
3 Greek_Thessaly @ 9.956626
4 Serbian @ 12.428729
5 Tuscan @ 16.127110
6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 16.259403
7 Central_Greek @ 16.882757
8 West_Sicilian @ 17.259850
9 East_Sicilian @ 17.688255
10 North_Italian @ 17.920322
11 Moldavian @ 18.186291
12 Ashkenazi @ 19.254660
13 Hungarian @ 20.871256
14 South_Italian @ 21.213923
15 Croatian @ 21.561186
16 Austrian @ 23.884834
17 Portuguese @ 24.539471
18 Spanish_Galicia @ 25.441376
19 Spanish_Extremadura @ 25.523808
20 French @ 25.711658

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +50% Moldavian @ 6.223005


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% East_Sicilian +25% Greek_Thessaly +25% La_Brana-1 @ 5.139538


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++
1 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + East_Sicilian + La_Brana-1 @ 5.135429
2 East_Sicilian + East_Sicilian + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 @ 5.139538
3 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Central_Greek + La_Brana-1 @ 5.153416
4 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + La_Brana-1 + South_Italian @ 5.171742
5 Central_Greek + East_Sicilian + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 @ 5.218509
6 Algerian_Jewish + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 @ 5.237494
7 Bulgarian + La_Brana-1 + South_Italian + South_Italian @ 5.277714
8 Algerian_Jewish + La_Brana-1 + Romanian + South_Italian @ 5.280231
9 East_Sicilian + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 + South_Italian @ 5.294063
10 Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 + South_Italian @ 5.300741
11 Bulgarian + East_Sicilian + La_Brana-1 + South_Italian @ 5.310349
12 Algerian_Jewish + East_Sicilian + La_Brana-1 + Romanian @ 5.313702
13 Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + La_Brana-1 + Romanian @ 5.347558
14 Central_Greek + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 + South_Italian @ 5.372287
15 Central_Greek + Central_Greek + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 @ 5.404590
16 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + La_Brana-1 + Libyan_Jewish @ 5.465182
17 La_Brana-1 + Libyan_Jewish + Moldavian + South_Italian @ 5.487985
18 East_Sicilian + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 @ 5.492576
19 Iranian_Jewish + La_Brana-1 + Moldavian + Sardinian @ 5.498378
20 Cyprian + La_Brana-1 + Romanian + West_Sicilian @ 5.504241

selectivememri
07-28-2017, 03:48 AM
you would know better than others your ancestry, Kingslav, i hope you dont feel that anyone is attempting to police how you self identify, my point was just that ashkenazi and sephardic seem difficult to differentiate on these kinds of tests. that said, i'm glad to have read this thread because it offered some insights for me to interpret my own results, so kingslav, targum, wandering, i thank you all for the lively discussion!

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 03:59 AM
you would know better than others your ancestry, Kingslav, i hope you dont feel that anyone is attempting to police how you self identify, my point was just that ashkenazi and sephardic seem difficult to differentiate on these kinds of tests. that said, i'm glad to have read this thread because it offered some insights for me to interpret my own results, so kingslav, targum, wandering, i thank you all for the lively discussion!

No problem, hahah. As for my genetics, they are unchangeable. I inherited them from my father and mother, and so on. We have tools in these modern time to examine this further, however there is group who will abuse these tools for self fulfilling prophecy. Not on my watch. - Kingslav

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 04:06 AM
If you'd like to see legit Sephardic admixture, here you go...

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 20.36
2 East_Med 20.07
3 Baltic 19.56
4 West_Med 16.08
5 West_Asian 9.97
6 East_Asian 4.07
7 Northeast_African 3.21
8 South_Asian 2.07
9 Sub-Saharan 1.23
10 Red_Sea 1.21


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bulgarian @ 7.563538
2 Romanian @ 8.723226
3 Greek_Thessaly @ 9.956626
4 Serbian @ 12.428729
5 Tuscan @ 16.127110
6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 16.259403
7 Central_Greek @ 16.882757
8 West_Sicilian @ 17.259850
9 East_Sicilian @ 17.688255
10 North_Italian @ 17.920322
11 Moldavian @ 18.186291
12 Ashkenazi @ 19.254660
13 Hungarian @ 20.871256
14 South_Italian @ 21.213923
15 Croatian @ 21.561186
16 Austrian @ 23.884834
17 Portuguese @ 24.539471
18 Spanish_Galicia @ 25.441376
19 Spanish_Extremadura @ 25.523808
20 French @ 25.711658

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +50% Moldavian @ 6.223005


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% East_Sicilian +25% Greek_Thessaly +25% La_Brana-1 @ 5.139538


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++
1 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + East_Sicilian + La_Brana-1 @ 5.135429
2 East_Sicilian + East_Sicilian + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 @ 5.139538
3 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Central_Greek + La_Brana-1 @ 5.153416
4 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + La_Brana-1 + South_Italian @ 5.171742
5 Central_Greek + East_Sicilian + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 @ 5.218509
6 Algerian_Jewish + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 @ 5.237494
7 Bulgarian + La_Brana-1 + South_Italian + South_Italian @ 5.277714
8 Algerian_Jewish + La_Brana-1 + Romanian + South_Italian @ 5.280231
9 East_Sicilian + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 + South_Italian @ 5.294063
10 Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 + South_Italian @ 5.300741
11 Bulgarian + East_Sicilian + La_Brana-1 + South_Italian @ 5.310349
12 Algerian_Jewish + East_Sicilian + La_Brana-1 + Romanian @ 5.313702
13 Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + La_Brana-1 + Romanian @ 5.347558
14 Central_Greek + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 + South_Italian @ 5.372287
15 Central_Greek + Central_Greek + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 @ 5.404590
16 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + La_Brana-1 + Libyan_Jewish @ 5.465182
17 La_Brana-1 + Libyan_Jewish + Moldavian + South_Italian @ 5.487985
18 East_Sicilian + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly + La_Brana-1 @ 5.492576
19 Iranian_Jewish + La_Brana-1 + Moldavian + Sardinian @ 5.498378
20 Cyprian + La_Brana-1 + Romanian + West_Sicilian @ 5.504241

Cool man, thanks for sharing, seems like half of me, other half Ashkenazi, West-Euro shifted

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 04:24 AM
Even more decisive proof can be found here that will shake up "fan club" on this thread. Check it out wandering_amorite lol. Kingslav K36 vs compared with 54 Polish K36 samples

Population-K36 Kingslav

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 0.61 *****
Central_African -
Central_Euro 10.84
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.37 *****
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 26.61
East_Med 0.81 *****
Eastern_Euro 16.42
Fennoscandian 11.57
French 6.04
Iberian 7.39 *****
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 1.11 *****
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 2.32
North_Caucasian 3.48 *****
North_Sea 7.28
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy 0.09 *****
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African 0.05 *****
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -


vs Average results of 54 Polish samples in Eurogenes K36 calculator:

Admixture present in x/54 Poles (% range) - avg. %

1) East_Central_Euro 54/54 (17.83 - 33.17) - 24.38
2) Eastern_Euro 54/54 (9.24 - 22.15) - 16.05
3) Fennoscandian 54/54 (6.02 - 16.44) - 12.10
4) North_Sea 54/54 (2.74 - 15.89) - 9.73
5) Central_Euro 54/54 (4.92 - 12.94) - 9.31
6) North_Atlantic 54/54 (0.64 - 12.06) - 6.90
7) East_Balkan 53/54 (1.23 - 11.54) - 6.24 ***** Kingslav 5.37 ***** peaks in Thessaly, Greece

8) Iberian 53/54 (0.06 - 9.0) - 4.57 ***** Kingslav 7.39 ***** peaks in Zaragoza, Spain
9) French 52/54 (1.29 - 7.96) - 4.07
10) Italian 43/54 (0.07 - 11.47) - 3.07 ***** Kingslav 1.11 ***** peaks in Tuscany, Italy
11) Basque 40/54 (0.14 - 3.5) - 1.13 ***** Kingslav 0.61 ***** peaks in Zaragoza, Spain
12) Volga-Ural 38/54 (0.12 - 4.63) - 1.03
13) North_Caucasian 21/54 (0.05 - 5.73) - 0.60 ***** Kingslav 3.48 ***** peaks in Elista, Russia

14) West_Med 14/54 (0.1 - 2.35) - 0.21
15) West_Caucasian 9/54 (0.19 - 2.68) - 0.21
16) Armenian 8/54 (0.07 - 3.19) - 0.15
17) East_Med 1/54 (3.77) - 0.07 ***** Kingslav 0.81 ***** peaks in Beirut, Lebanon
18) South_Central_Asian 4/54 (0.26 - 1.11) - 0.05
19) Amerindian 5/54 (0.13 - 1.17) - 0.05
20) Oceanian 4/54 (0.06 - 0.67) - 0.02
21) Arabian 1/54 (1.04) - 0.02
22) West_African 2/54 (0.3 - 0.38) - 0.01 ***** Kingslav 0.05 ***** peaks in Bamako, Mali
23) Northeast_African 1/54 (0.24) - 0.004

24) Siberian 0/54 - 0.00
25) East_Asian 0/54 - 0.00
26) East_Central_Asian 0/54 - 0.00
27) Indo-Chinese 0/54 - 0.00
28) South_Chinese 0/54 - 0.00
29) South_Asian 0/54 - 0.00
30) Malayan 0/54 - 0.00
31) Near_Eastern 0/54 - 0.00
32) North_African 0/54 - 0.00
33) East_African 0/54 - 0.00
34) Omotic 0/54 - 0.00
35) Central_African 0/54 - 0.00
36) Pygmy 0/54 - 0.00 ***** Kingslav 0.09 ***** peaks in Bangul, Central African Republic


- Balkan input is there
- Iberian input double
- Italian Tuscan input low 1.11% (Ashkenazi?)
- Basque input is there
- North Caucasian input 3.48% (most likely Tatar, other possibilities)
- East Med input 0.81% (1/54 Polish sample score this, I have)
- West African input 0.05% (2/54 Polish sample score this, I have)
- Pygmy African input 0.09% (0/54 Polish sample score this, I have)

Evidence is in front of you.

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 04:52 AM
More oracles. Sephardic regions labeled as *****

1 Hungarians 62.7% + Russian 37.3% = Wegene calculator results with 0.8% difference, see below


Dodecad K12b Oracle- Kingslav

1 62.7% Hungarians + 37.3% Russian @ 1.4
2 81.3% Mixed_Slav + 18.7% Andalucia @ 1.52*****
3 73.6% Russian_B + 26.4% Cataluna @ 1.61*****
4 75.2% Hungarians + 24.8% Finnish @ 1.62
5 74.1% Hungarians + 25.9% Lithuanians @ 1.64
6 74.8% Russian + 25.2% Baleares @ 1.65*****
7 79.4% Mixed_Slav + 20.6% Baleares @ 1.67*****
8 74.5% Russian_B + 25.5% Spaniards @ 1.7*****
9 57.2% Ukranians + 42.8% German @ 1.73
10 71.1% Hungarians + 28.9% Lithuanian @ 1.73
11 56.6% Hungarians + 43.4% Mixed_Slav @ 1.74
12 75.6% Russian_B + 24.4% Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.75*****
13 68.2% Ukranians + 31.8% Mixed_Germanic @ 1.79
14 74% Hungarians + 26% FIN30 @ 1.8
15 80.2% Mixed_Slav + 19.8% Spaniards @ 1.81*****
16 66% Russian_B + 34% French @ 1.82*****
17 79.4% Mixed_Slav + 20.6% Extremadura @ 1.83*****
18 83.7% Russian + 16.3% Sardinian @ 1.84*****
19 74% Russian + 26% North_Italian @ 1.88
20 75.5% Russian_B + 24.5% Valencia @ 1.88*****

fished
07-28-2017, 05:27 AM
1.11% Italian, 0.81% East Med, 0.00% Near Eastern, and part Sephardi? I don't think so, my friend. :\

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 05:42 AM
1.11% Italian, 0.81% East Med, 0.00% Near Eastern, and part Sephardi? I don't think so, my friend. :\

Britalian? Never heard of such thing. What make you believe I am your friend

fished
07-28-2017, 05:51 AM
Britalian? Never heard of such thing. What make you believe I am your friend

And I've never heard of a 99% East European Sephardi. ;)

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 06:01 AM
And I've never heard of a 99% East European Sephardi. ;)

You learn something new everyday, this the kind of data you will not find in American curriculum

fished
07-28-2017, 06:05 AM
You learn something new everyday, this the kind of data you will not find in American curriculum

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." :heh:

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 06:11 AM
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." :heh:

Cool quote man, so Britalian, is that Ashkenazi, West-Euro and North-Euro? I been eating your kind for breakfast now 24 years and counting. Didnt you read last 5 pages? Cheerio, mate

Mis
07-28-2017, 07:00 AM
Her Kingslav93 ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl5alZZwBeM

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 08:16 AM
Her Kingslav93 ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl5alZZwBeM

What is this? Your youtube channel?

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 09:03 AM
1.11% Italian, 0.81% East Med, 0.00% Near Eastern, and part Sephardi? I don't think so, my friend. :\

If your going post on here bring facts, you conveniently, mention my East Med, Italian %. Excuse me, you not mention 7.39 Iberian, 5.37 East Balkan, 3.48 North Caucasian, 1.11 Italian, 0.81 East Med, 0.61 Basque, 0.14 African= 18.91% is parallel with 16% DNALAND is showing for me.

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 10:03 AM
Here we have 2 samples in comparison


Sample 1 User Tz85- 3/4 Italian, 1/4 Slavic

# Population Percent

1 North_Atlantic 20.36
2 East_Med 20.07*****
3 Baltic 19.56
4 West_Med 16.08*****
5 West_Asian 9.97*****
6 East_Asian 4.07?
7 Northeast_African 3.21*****
8 South_Asian 2.07
9 Sub-Saharan 1.23*****
10 Red_Sea 1.21*****

***** = 51.77% Southern Admixture


Sample 2 Kingslav- 7/8 Slavic, 1/8 Sephardic

# Population Percent

1 Baltic 45.32
2 North_Atlantic 26.72
3 West_Med 10.53*****
4 East_Med 10.4*****
5 West_Asian 2.66*****
6 Siberian 1.79
7 Sub-Saharan 0.72*****
8 Amerindian 0.69
9 South_Asian 0.61
10 Oceanian 0.35*****
11 Red_Sea 0.22*****

*****= 24.88% Southern Admixture


I am only 1/8 Sephardic, and score half amount southern admixture 24.88%, in comparison user Tz85 who is 3/4 Italian, almost full, with 51.77%.

eolien
07-28-2017, 10:08 AM
If you'd like to see legit Sephardic admixture, here you go...





maybe i missed something, what makes this sample a legit Sephardic? What is the origin? I find the baltic too high, which also shows in suggested populations.

for example mine (as a legit Sephardic sample) shows:
Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Italian @ 5.953520
2 Sephardic_Jewish @ 6.014371
3 Italian_Jewish @ 7.335571
4 East_Sicilian @ 7.965586

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Muslim +50% West_Sicilian @ 3.421347


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Jewish +25% South_Italian +25% Turkish @ 2.405411


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Assyrian + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tuscan @ 1.997190
2 Georgian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tuscan @ 2.027461
3 Italian_Abruzzo + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Muslim + South_Italian @ 2.080801
4 Assyrian + Italian_Jewish + North_Italian + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.121901

---

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 10:14 AM
maybe i missed something, what makes this sample a legit Sephardic? What is the origin? I find the baltic too high, which also shows in suggested populations.

for example mine (as a legit Sephardic sample) shows:
Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Italian @ 5.953520
2 Sephardic_Jewish @ 6.014371
3 Italian_Jewish @ 7.335571
4 East_Sicilian @ 7.965586

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Muslim +50% West_Sicilian @ 3.421347


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Jewish +25% South_Italian +25% Turkish @ 2.405411


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Assyrian + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tuscan @ 1.997190
2 Georgian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tuscan @ 2.027461
3 Italian_Abruzzo + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Muslim + South_Italian @ 2.080801
4 Assyrian + Italian_Jewish + North_Italian + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.121901

---

User Tz85 is 3/4 Italian, 1/4 Slavic, not full Sephardic.

Thanks for posting oracles

Rach_27
07-28-2017, 10:36 AM
Half Palestinian here.. (also apparently 8% Sephardi in FTDNA but I'm told it is not accurate)... here are my K13 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 30.03
2 East_Med 26.64
3 West_Med 13.43
4 West_Asian 12.34
5 Baltic 9.2
6 Red_Sea 5.28
7 Siberian 1.02
8 Northeast_African 0.93
9 East_Asian 0.56
10 Oceanian 0.32
11 Amerindian 0.13
12 South_Asian 0.12
13 Sub-Saharan 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 9.63
2 Tuscan 10.44
3 West_Sicilian 11.77
4 Greek_Thessaly 13.34
5 North_Italian 14.06
6 Central_Greek 14.09
7 East_Sicilian 14.18
8 Ashkenazi 15.33
9 South_Italian 15.49
10 Romanian 16.83
11 Bulgarian 16.83
12 Sephardic_Jewish 17.94
13 Italian_Jewish 18.63
14 Portuguese 19.26
15 Serbian 19.27
16 Spanish_Extremadura 19.62
17 Spanish_Murcia 19.94
18 Algerian_Jewish 20.53
19 Spanish_Galicia 20.91
20 Spanish_Cataluna 20.98

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.2% Lebanese_Druze + 49.8% Southwest_English @ 3.13
2 51% Southeast_English + 49% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.81
3 51.4% Lebanese_Druze + 48.6% West_Scottish @ 3.87
4 59.7% French + 40.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.95
5 50.2% West_Scottish + 49.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.22
6 51.4% Southwest_English + 48.6% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.29
7 50.7% Lebanese_Druze + 49.3% Orcadian @ 4.29
8 52.7% Southeast_English + 47.3% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.3
9 64.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 35.8% Danish @ 4.33
10 51.3% Lebanese_Druze + 48.7% Irish @ 4.34
11 64.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 35.7% North_Dutch @ 4.4
12 65.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 34.1% Norwegian @ 4.42
13 55.7% South_Dutch + 44.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.48
14 65.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 34.9% West_Scottish @ 4.49
15 65% Sephardic_Jewish + 35% Irish @ 4.56
16 63% Sephardic_Jewish + 37% North_German @ 4.62
17 50.9% Orcadian + 49.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.69
18 64.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 35.5% Orcadian @ 4.7
19 60.1% Tunisian_Jewish + 39.9% West_Scottish @ 4.73
20 50.4% Irish + 49.6% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.7

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 10:51 AM
maybe i missed something, what makes this sample a legit Sephardic? What is the origin? I find the baltic too high, which also shows in suggested populations.

for example mine (as a legit Sephardic sample) shows:
Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Italian @ 5.953520
2 Sephardic_Jewish @ 6.014371
3 Italian_Jewish @ 7.335571
4 East_Sicilian @ 7.965586

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Muslim +50% West_Sicilian @ 3.421347


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Jewish +25% South_Italian +25% Turkish @ 2.405411


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Assyrian + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tuscan @ 1.997190
2 Georgian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tuscan @ 2.027461
3 Italian_Abruzzo + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Muslim + South_Italian @ 2.080801
4 Assyrian + Italian_Jewish + North_Italian + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.121901

---

I wanted to do compare with oracles from results above.

Here is 2 populations, 7/8 Slavic 1/8 Sephardic

1 80.7% Estonian + 19.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.72
2 87.1% Estonian + 12.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 5.8
3 88.7% Estonian + 11.3% Samaritan @ 5.88
4 89% Estonian + 11% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.91
5 70.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 29.1% Estonian @ 5.94
6 87.9% Estonian + 12.1% Cyprian @ 5.95
7 89% Estonian + 11% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.99
8 77.4% Ukrainian + 22.6% Estonian @ 6.06
9 87% Estonian + 13% Algerian_Jewish @ 6.14
10 86.7% Estonian + 13.3% Italian_Jewish @ 6.15
11 84.7% Estonian + 15.3% Central_Greek @ 6.17
12 85.9% Estonian + 14.1% South_Italian @ 6.18
13 84.2% Estonian + 15.8% Ashkenazi @ 6.18
14 97.9% Ukrainian + 2.1% Yemenite_Jewish @ 6.21
15 85.1% Estonian + 14.9% East_Sicilian @ 6.23
16 89% Estonian + 11% Palestinian @ 6.23
17 89.6% Ukrainian + 10.4% Lithuanian @ 6.26
18 88.8% Estonian + 11.2% Jordanian @ 6.27
19 98.3% Ukrainian + 1.7% Lebanese_Druze @ 6.28
20 84.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 15.9% Lithuanian @ 6.29

Tz85
07-28-2017, 11:56 AM
maybe i missed something, what makes this sample a legit Sephardic? What is the origin? I find the baltic too high, which also shows in suggested populations.

for example mine (as a legit Sephardic sample) shows:
Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Italian @ 5.953520
2 Sephardic_Jewish @ 6.014371
3 Italian_Jewish @ 7.335571
4 East_Sicilian @ 7.965586

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Muslim +50% West_Sicilian @ 3.421347


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Jewish +25% South_Italian +25% Turkish @ 2.405411


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Assyrian + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tuscan @ 1.997190
2 Georgian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tuscan @ 2.027461
3 Italian_Abruzzo + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Muslim + South_Italian @ 2.080801
4 Assyrian + Italian_Jewish + North_Italian + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.121901

---

It's my data, and I never said anything about full Sephardic. I'm Italian and Slavic with Sephardic and Ashkenazi Admixture.

Here are my results from Dr. McDonald.

Most likely fit is 68%(+- 11.8%) Europe (various subcontinents)

and 32% (+- 11.8%) Mideast (various subcontinents)



The following are possible population sets and their fractions,

most likely at the top

French= 0.816 Iranian= 0.184 or

French= 0.783 Georgian= 0.217 or

Germany= 0.591 Jewish= 0.409 or

French= 0.773 Turkish= 0.227 or

Germany= 0.716 Druze= 0.284 or

Poland= 0.529 Jewish= 0.471 or

English= 0.615 Jewish= 0.385 or

French= 0.801 Armenian= 0.199 or

English= 0.737 Druze= 0.263 or

Lithuania= 0.464 Jewish= 0.536



A custom fit gives



Hungary 0.7479 Jewish 0.2521 or

Romania 0.9359 Jewish 0.0641 or

Germany 0.6305 Sephardic 0.3695 or

Hungary 0.7310 Sephardic 0.2690 or

Poland 0.5583 Sephardic 0.4417

A different kind of test gives

Russian and Sephardic as best matches.



I think it is Slavic/Sephardic or Slavic/Sephardic/Ashkenazy.



Doug

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 03:03 PM
Eurogenes K36 should be plenty precise:

Arabian 0 Average for Ukrainian West: 0; Average for Sephardi: 8
Armenian 0 Average for Ukrainian West: 1.71 ; Average for Sephardi: 3.95
East_Med 0.81 Average for Ukrainian West: 0.32; Average for Sephardi: 14.18
Italian 1.11 Average for Ukrainian West: 2.32; Average for Sephardi: 14.99
Near_Eastern 0 Average for Ukrainian West: 0; Average for Sephardi: 17.37

Just wondering what these "cherrypicked" stats have to do with Sephardic genetics. You are contributing here foundational Ashkenazi genetics. No, this is not Sephardic data being presented, Im sure. The results go as follows for K13. I have done detailed breakdown already for Sephardic K36 in this thread.


Sample 1 Kingslav- 7/8 Slavic, 1/8 Sephardic

# Population Percent

1 Baltic 45.32
2 North_Atlantic 26.72
3 West_Med 10.53*****
4 East_Med 10.4*****
5 West_Asian 2.66*****
6 Siberian 1.79
7 Sub-Saharan 0.72*****
8 Amerindian 0.69
9 South_Asian 0.61
10 Oceanian 0.35*****
11 Red_Sea 0.22*****

*****= 24.88% Sephardic Admixture


Sample 2 Kingslav Oracles-7/8 Slavic 1/8 Sephardic


1 Hungarians 62.7% + Russian 37.3% = Wegene calculator results with 0.8% difference, see below


1 62.7% Hungarians + 37.3% Russian @ 1.4
2 81.3% Mixed_Slav + 18.7% Andalucia @ 1.52*****
3 73.6% Russian_B + 26.4% Cataluna @ 1.61*****
4 75.2% Hungarians + 24.8% Finnish @ 1.62
5 74.1% Hungarians + 25.9% Lithuanians @ 1.64
6 74.8% Russian + 25.2% Baleares @ 1.65*****
7 79.4% Mixed_Slav + 20.6% Baleares @ 1.67*****
8 74.5% Russian_B + 25.5% Spaniards @ 1.7*****
9 57.2% Ukranians + 42.8% German @ 1.73
10 71.1% Hungarians + 28.9% Lithuanian @ 1.73
11 56.6% Hungarians + 43.4% Mixed_Slav @ 1.74
12 75.6% Russian_B + 24.4% Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.75*****
13 68.2% Ukranians + 31.8% Mixed_Germanic @ 1.79
14 74% Hungarians + 26% FIN30 @ 1.8
15 80.2% Mixed_Slav + 19.8% Spaniards @ 1.81*****
16 66% Russian_B + 34% French @ 1.82*****
17 79.4% Mixed_Slav + 20.6% Extremadura @ 1.83*****
18 83.7% Russian + 16.3% Sardinian @ 1.84*****
19 74% Russian + 26% North_Italian @ 1.88
20 75.5% Russian_B + 24.5% Valencia @ 1.88*****


Sample 3


1 80.7% Estonian + 19.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.72
2 87.1% Estonian + 12.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 5.8
3 88.7% Estonian + 11.3% Samaritan @ 5.88
4 89% Estonian + 11% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.91
5 70.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 29.1% Estonian @ 5.94
6 87.9% Estonian + 12.1% Cyprian @ 5.95
7 89% Estonian + 11% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.99
8 77.4% Ukrainian + 22.6% Estonian @ 6.06
9 87% Estonian + 13% Algerian_Jewish @ 6.14
10 86.7% Estonian + 13.3% Italian_Jewish @ 6.15
11 84.7% Estonian + 15.3% Central_Greek @ 6.17
12 85.9% Estonian + 14.1% South_Italian @ 6.18
13 84.2% Estonian + 15.8% Ashkenazi @ 6.18
14 97.9% Ukrainian + 2.1% Yemenite_Jewish @ 6.21
15 85.1% Estonian + 14.9% East_Sicilian @ 6.23
16 89% Estonian + 11% Palestinian @ 6.23
17 89.6% Ukrainian + 10.4% Lithuanian @ 6.26
18 88.8% Estonian + 11.2% Jordanian @ 6.27
19 98.3% Ukrainian + 1.7% Lebanese_Druze @ 6.28
20 84.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 15.9% Lithuanian @ 6.29



Population-K36 Kingslav

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 0.61 *****
Central_African -
Central_Euro 10.84
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.37 *****
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 26.61
East_Med 0.81 *****
Eastern_Euro 16.42
Fennoscandian 11.57
French 6.04
Iberian 7.39 *****
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 1.11 *****
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 2.32
North_Caucasian 3.48 *****
North_Sea 7.28
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy 0.09 *****
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African 0.05 *****
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -


vs Average results of 54 Polish samples in Eurogenes K36 calculator:

Admixture present in x/54 Poles (% range) - avg. %

1) East_Central_Euro 54/54 (17.83 - 33.17) - 24.38
2) Eastern_Euro 54/54 (9.24 - 22.15) - 16.05
3) Fennoscandian 54/54 (6.02 - 16.44) - 12.10
4) North_Sea 54/54 (2.74 - 15.89) - 9.73
5) Central_Euro 54/54 (4.92 - 12.94) - 9.31
6) North_Atlantic 54/54 (0.64 - 12.06) - 6.90
7) East_Balkan 53/54 (1.23 - 11.54) - 6.24 ***** Kingslav 5.37 ***** peaks in Thessaly, Greece

8) Iberian 53/54 (0.06 - 9.0) - 4.57 ***** Kingslav 7.39 ***** peaks in Zaragoza, Spain
9) French 52/54 (1.29 - 7.96) - 4.07
10) Italian 43/54 (0.07 - 11.47) - 3.07 ***** Kingslav 1.11 ***** peaks in Tuscany, Italy
11) Basque 40/54 (0.14 - 3.5) - 1.13 ***** Kingslav 0.61 ***** peaks in Zaragoza, Spain
12) Volga-Ural 38/54 (0.12 - 4.63) - 1.03
13) North_Caucasian 21/54 (0.05 - 5.73) - 0.60 ***** Kingslav 3.48 ***** peaks in Elista, Russia

14) West_Med 14/54 (0.1 - 2.35) - 0.21
15) West_Caucasian 9/54 (0.19 - 2.68) - 0.21
16) Armenian 8/54 (0.07 - 3.19) - 0.15
17) East_Med 1/54 (3.77) - 0.07 ***** Kingslav 0.81 ***** peaks in Beirut, Lebanon
18) South_Central_Asian 4/54 (0.26 - 1.11) - 0.05
19) Amerindian 5/54 (0.13 - 1.17) - 0.05
20) Oceanian 4/54 (0.06 - 0.67) - 0.02
21) Arabian 1/54 (1.04) - 0.02
22) West_African 2/54 (0.3 - 0.38) - 0.01 ***** Kingslav 0.05 ***** peaks in Bamako, Mali
23) Northeast_African 1/54 (0.24) - 0.004

24) Siberian 0/54 - 0.00
25) East_Asian 0/54 - 0.00
26) East_Central_Asian 0/54 - 0.00
27) Indo-Chinese 0/54 - 0.00
28) South_Chinese 0/54 - 0.00
29) South_Asian 0/54 - 0.00
30) Malayan 0/54 - 0.00
31) Near_Eastern 0/54 - 0.00
32) North_African 0/54 - 0.00
33) East_African 0/54 - 0.00
34) Omotic 0/54 - 0.00
35) Central_African 0/54 - 0.00
36) Pygmy 0/54 - 0.00 ***** Kingslav 0.09 ***** peaks in Bangul, Central African Republic


- Balkan input is there
- Iberian input double
- Italian Tuscan input low 1.11% (Ashkenazi?)
- Basque input is there
- North Caucasian input 3.48% (most likely Tatar, other possibilities)
- East Med input 0.81% (1/54 Polish sample score this, I have)
- West African input 0.05% (2/54 Polish sample score this, I have)
- Pygmy African input 0.09% (0/54 Polish sample score this, I have)

Evidence is in front of you.

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 03:06 PM
Just wondering what these "cherrypicked" stats have to do with Sephardic genetics. You are contributing here foundational Ashkenazi genetics. No, this is not Sephardic data being presented, Im sure. The results go as follows for K13. I have done detailed breakdown already for Sephardic K36 in this thread.

You fucking idiot, I'm referring directly to the Sephardi population averages. Which ain't far from the Ashkenazi ones. I'm sorry you can't cope.

coffeeprince
07-28-2017, 03:12 PM
If you want some extra data, I am half Sephardic/half Ashkenazi. Here are my k13 results.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 40.62
2 West_Med 20.86
3 North_Atlantic 11.02
4 Baltic 8.38
5 Red_Sea 7.72
6 West_Asian 7.62
7 Northeast_African 2.26

------

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Algerian_Jewish @ 7.302477
2 Italian_Jewish @ 8.289227
3 Ashkenazi @ 8.783137
4 Tunisian_Jewish @ 9.837933
5 Libyan_Jewish @ 10.161392
6 Sephardic_Jewish @ 10.599681
7 South_Italian @ 13.616117
8 East_Sicilian @ 13.687049
9 Cyprian @ 15.073839
10 Central_Greek @ 15.554960
11 West_Sicilian @ 16.424337
12 Samaritan @ 18.696583
13 Italian_Abruzzo @ 19.168951
14 Palestinian @ 19.757679
15 Lebanese_Muslim @ 19.887392
16 Greek_Thessaly @ 20.027376
17 Tunisian @ 20.356224
18 Jordanian @ 20.478115
19 Syrian @ 20.633827
20 Lebanese_Christian @ 20.736227

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Algerian_Jewish +50% Ashkenazi @ 6.647662


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +25% Italian_Jewish +25% Samaritan @ 6.55032

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 03:12 PM
Just wondering what these "cherrypicked" stats have to do with Sephardic genetics. You are contributing here foundational Ashkenazi genetics. No, this is not Sephardic data being presented, Im sure. The results go as follows for K13. I have done detailed breakdown already for Sephardic K36 in this thread.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11eIq6oZpfQ8mCbZyw8gdbfCimxHEVbjTDrkfDVX9kBc/edit

Population averages. Enjoy.

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 03:18 PM
Interesting. Where are your Sephardi ancestors from?

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by wandering_amorite
Eurogenes K36 should be plenty precise:

Arabian 0 Average for Ukrainian West: 0; Average for Sephardi: 8
Armenian 0 Average for Ukrainian West: 1.71 ; Average for Sephardi: 3.95
East_Med 0.81 Average for Ukrainian West: 0.32; Average for Sephardi: 14.18
Italian 1.11 Average for Ukrainian West: 2.32; Average for Sephardi: 14.99
Near_Eastern 0 Average for Ukrainian West: 0; Average for Sephardi: 17.37
Just wondering what these "cherrypicked" stats have to do with Sephardic genetics. You are contributing here foundational Ashkenazi genetics. No, this is not Sephardic data being presented, Im sure. The results go as follows for K13. I have done detailed breakdown already for Sephardic K36 in this thread.


Sample 1 Kingslav- 7/8 Slavic, 1/8 Sephardic

# Population Percent

1 Baltic 45.32
2 North_Atlantic 26.72
3 West_Med 10.53*****
4 East_Med 10.4*****
5 West_Asian 2.66*****
6 Siberian 1.79
7 Sub-Saharan 0.72*****
8 Amerindian 0.69
9 South_Asian 0.61
10 Oceanian 0.35*****
11 Red_Sea 0.22*****

*****= 24.88% Sephardic Admixture


Sample 2 Kingslav Oracles-7/8 Slavic 1/8 Sephardic


1 Hungarians 62.7% + Russian 37.3% = Wegene calculator results with 0.8% difference, see below


1 62.7% Hungarians + 37.3% Russian @ 1.4
2 81.3% Mixed_Slav + 18.7% Andalucia @ 1.52*****
3 73.6% Russian_B + 26.4% Cataluna @ 1.61*****
4 75.2% Hungarians + 24.8% Finnish @ 1.62
5 74.1% Hungarians + 25.9% Lithuanians @ 1.64
6 74.8% Russian + 25.2% Baleares @ 1.65*****
7 79.4% Mixed_Slav + 20.6% Baleares @ 1.67*****
8 74.5% Russian_B + 25.5% Spaniards @ 1.7*****
9 57.2% Ukranians + 42.8% German @ 1.73
10 71.1% Hungarians + 28.9% Lithuanian @ 1.73
11 56.6% Hungarians + 43.4% Mixed_Slav @ 1.74
12 75.6% Russian_B + 24.4% Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.75*****
13 68.2% Ukranians + 31.8% Mixed_Germanic @ 1.79
14 74% Hungarians + 26% FIN30 @ 1.8
15 80.2% Mixed_Slav + 19.8% Spaniards @ 1.81*****
16 66% Russian_B + 34% French @ 1.82*****
17 79.4% Mixed_Slav + 20.6% Extremadura @ 1.83*****
18 83.7% Russian + 16.3% Sardinian @ 1.84*****
19 74% Russian + 26% North_Italian @ 1.88
20 75.5% Russian_B + 24.5% Valencia @ 1.88*****


Sample 3


1 80.7% Estonian + 19.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.72
2 87.1% Estonian + 12.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 5.8
3 88.7% Estonian + 11.3% Samaritan @ 5.88
4 89% Estonian + 11% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.91
5 70.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 29.1% Estonian @ 5.94
6 87.9% Estonian + 12.1% Cyprian @ 5.95
7 89% Estonian + 11% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.99
8 77.4% Ukrainian + 22.6% Estonian @ 6.06
9 87% Estonian + 13% Algerian_Jewish @ 6.14
10 86.7% Estonian + 13.3% Italian_Jewish @ 6.15
11 84.7% Estonian + 15.3% Central_Greek @ 6.17
12 85.9% Estonian + 14.1% South_Italian @ 6.18
13 84.2% Estonian + 15.8% Ashkenazi @ 6.18
14 97.9% Ukrainian + 2.1% Yemenite_Jewish @ 6.21
15 85.1% Estonian + 14.9% East_Sicilian @ 6.23
16 89% Estonian + 11% Palestinian @ 6.23
17 89.6% Ukrainian + 10.4% Lithuanian @ 6.26
18 88.8% Estonian + 11.2% Jordanian @ 6.27
19 98.3% Ukrainian + 1.7% Lebanese_Druze @ 6.28
20 84.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 15.9% Lithuanian @ 6.29



Population-K36 Kingslav

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 0.61 *****
Central_African -
Central_Euro 10.84
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.37 *****
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 26.61
East_Med 0.81 *****
Eastern_Euro 16.42
Fennoscandian 11.57
French 6.04
Iberian 7.39 *****
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 1.11 *****
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 2.32
North_Caucasian 3.48 *****
North_Sea 7.28
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy 0.09 *****
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African 0.05 *****
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -


vs Average results of 54 Polish samples in Eurogenes K36 calculator:

Admixture present in x/54 Poles (% range) - avg. %

1) East_Central_Euro 54/54 (17.83 - 33.17) - 24.38
2) Eastern_Euro 54/54 (9.24 - 22.15) - 16.05
3) Fennoscandian 54/54 (6.02 - 16.44) - 12.10
4) North_Sea 54/54 (2.74 - 15.89) - 9.73
5) Central_Euro 54/54 (4.92 - 12.94) - 9.31
6) North_Atlantic 54/54 (0.64 - 12.06) - 6.90
7) East_Balkan 53/54 (1.23 - 11.54) - 6.24 ***** Kingslav 5.37 ***** peaks in Thessaly, Greece

8) Iberian 53/54 (0.06 - 9.0) - 4.57 ***** Kingslav 7.39 ***** peaks in Zaragoza, Spain
9) French 52/54 (1.29 - 7.96) - 4.07
10) Italian 43/54 (0.07 - 11.47) - 3.07 ***** Kingslav 1.11 ***** peaks in Tuscany, Italy
11) Basque 40/54 (0.14 - 3.5) - 1.13 ***** Kingslav 0.61 ***** peaks in Zaragoza, Spain
12) Volga-Ural 38/54 (0.12 - 4.63) - 1.03
13) North_Caucasian 21/54 (0.05 - 5.73) - 0.60 ***** Kingslav 3.48 ***** peaks in Elista, Russia

14) West_Med 14/54 (0.1 - 2.35) - 0.21
15) West_Caucasian 9/54 (0.19 - 2.68) - 0.21
16) Armenian 8/54 (0.07 - 3.19) - 0.15
17) East_Med 1/54 (3.77) - 0.07 ***** Kingslav 0.81 ***** peaks in Beirut, Lebanon
18) South_Central_Asian 4/54 (0.26 - 1.11) - 0.05
19) Amerindian 5/54 (0.13 - 1.17) - 0.05
20) Oceanian 4/54 (0.06 - 0.67) - 0.02
21) Arabian 1/54 (1.04) - 0.02
22) West_African 2/54 (0.3 - 0.38) - 0.01 ***** Kingslav 0.05 ***** peaks in Bamako, Mali
23) Northeast_African 1/54 (0.24) - 0.004

24) Siberian 0/54 - 0.00
25) East_Asian 0/54 - 0.00
26) East_Central_Asian 0/54 - 0.00
27) Indo-Chinese 0/54 - 0.00
28) South_Chinese 0/54 - 0.00
29) South_Asian 0/54 - 0.00
30) Malayan 0/54 - 0.00
31) Near_Eastern 0/54 - 0.00
32) North_African 0/54 - 0.00
33) East_African 0/54 - 0.00
34) Omotic 0/54 - 0.00
35) Central_African 0/54 - 0.00
36) Pygmy 0/54 - 0.00 ***** Kingslav 0.09 ***** peaks in Bangul, Central African Republic


- Balkan input is there
- Iberian input double
- Italian Tuscan input low 1.11% (Ashkenazi?)
- Basque input is there
- North Caucasian input 3.48% (most likely Tatar, other possibilities)
- East Med input 0.81% (1/54 Polish sample score this, I have)
- West African input 0.05% (2/54 Polish sample score this, I have)
- Pygmy African input 0.09% (0/54 Polish sample score this, I have)

Evidence is in front of you.

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 03:22 PM
Italian average for Sephardim is 14-15% on average. You have below average for Ukrainians/Poles. You have below average Balkan and Basque. Your East Med and African components are noise-level. You are deliberately ignorant of Sephardi population averages.


And you are obviously going to be more East-Med than the average Estonian, as your mixed mode suggests. Estonians are about as northerly as you can get. West Ukrainians and South Poles have much more Mediterranean input. This is not a matter of recent Jewish admixture.

You also can't grasp how these Oracles are used. You compare yourself to the average of your known population of origin. Ukrainians and Poles have these Mediterranean and West Asian components. You need to compare yourself to the Ukrainian/Polish averages, not to zero. If you seriously think any of these tests indicate you have 24% Sephardi ancestry, you are not a rational person.

coffeeprince
07-28-2017, 03:25 PM
Interesting. Where are your Sephardi ancestors from?


Morocco. :)

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 03:27 PM
A kingly edah that deserves much, much more respect.

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 03:38 PM
Italian average for Sephardim is 14-15% on average. You have below average for Ukrainians/Poles. You have below average Balkan and Basque. Your East Med and African components are noise-level. You are deliberately ignorant of Sephardi population averages.


And you are obviously going to be more East-Med than the average Estonian, as your mixed mode suggests. Estonians are about as northerly as you can get. West Ukrainians and South Poles have much more Mediterranean input. This is not a matter of recent Jewish admixture.

You also can't grasp how these Oracles are used. You compare yourself to the average of your known population of origin. Ukrainians and Poles have these Mediterranean and West Asian components. You need to compare yourself to the Ukrainian/Polish averages, not to zero. If you seriously think any of these tests indicate you have 24% Sephardi ancestry, you are not a rational person.

Sure I have exactly 24.88 base percentage for Sephardic, I did not say I am 24% Sephardic, this plan will not work, you are trying be slick with words and ignoring the data. User Roaring explained East Med is base Sephardic admixture on K13. I score 10.40 East Med and 10.53 West Med among others.Therefore your theories have been debunked.

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 03:44 PM
Sure I have exactly 24.88 base percentage for Sephardic, I did not say I am 24% Sephardic, this plan will not work, you are trying be slick with words and ignoring the data. User Roaring explained East Med is base Sephardic admixture on K13. I score 10.40 East Med and 10.53 West Med among others.Therefore your theories have been debunked.

Ukrainian_Lviv average West_Med: 11.96 Kingslav93: below average
Ukrainian_Lviv average East_Med: 5.29 Kingslav93: above average
Ukrainian_Lviv average West Asian: 7.1 Kingslav93: below average
Ukrainian_Lviv average Red Sea: 1.79 Kingslav93: below average

THE AVERAGE UKRAINIAN SCORES SOME EAST MED. DOESN'T MEAN ALL UKRAINIANS ARE PART-SEPHARDI. EAST MED IS FOUND AT HIGH RATES FROM THE CAUCASUS TO ETHIOPIA. CHECK THE FUCKING POPULATION AVERAGES.

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 03:45 PM
Put another way, buddy: a distinctively Near Eastern component is Red_Sea. The Sephardi average is 8.9. You score 0.22, which means you couldn't be much more than 2.5% Sephardi, if that. Moreover, you score below the Ukrainian_Lviv average for Red Sea.

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 03:52 PM
Put another way, buddy: a distinctively Near Eastern component is Red_Sea. The Sephardi average is 8.9. You score 0.22, which means you couldn't be much more than 2.5% Sephardi, if that. Moreover, you score below the Ukrainian_Lviv average for Red Sea.

Sephardi not near-eastern shifted, you are once again speaking about Ashkenazi, how many times you want to go in circle before you get dizzy?

Sephardics are Mediterranean ofcourse shifted coming from Levant as Seafarers.

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 03:55 PM
Sephardi not near-eastern shifted, you are once again speaking about Ashkenazi, how many times you want to go in circle before you get dizzy?

Sephardics are Mediterranean ofcourse shifted coming from Levant as Seafarers.

Why are you deliberately ignoring the population averages? They're available publicly. Red_Sea is common in the Levant. Both Ashkenazim and Sephardim have substantial Near Eastern/Levantine ancestry. What do you think "Near Eastern" means?

And wait: Sephardim were seafarers? That's rich. You clearly don't know history.

[Ashkenazim and Sephardim are both descended from Judeans who settled in the Western Roman Empire during the classical period and intermarried with local women. It's actually pretty simple. Not many Judeans were "seafarers".]

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 04:01 PM
Why are you deliberately ignoring the population averages? They're available publicly. Red_Sea is common in the Levant. Both Ashkenazim and Sephardim have substantial Near Eastern/Levantine ancestry. What do you think "Near Eastern" means?

And wait: Sephardim were seafarers? That's rich. You clearly don't know history.

[Ashkenazim and Sephardim are both descended from Judeans who settled in the Western Roman Empire during the classical period and intermarried with local women. It's actually pretty simple. Not many Judeans were "seafarers".]

Keep dreaming

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 04:02 PM
Someone fucking ban this ignoramus. He's not even interested in engaging.

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 04:05 PM
Why are you deliberately ignoring the population averages? They're available publicly. Red_Sea is common in the Levant. Both Ashkenazim and Sephardim have substantial Near Eastern/Levantine ancestry. What do you think "Near Eastern" means?

And wait: Sephardim were seafarers? That's rich. You clearly don't know history.

[Ashkenazim and Sephardim are both descended from Judeans who settled in the Western Roman Empire during the classical period and intermarried with local women. It's actually pretty simple. Not many Judeans were "seafarers".]

We are not related with Khazarians, Sephardics are different race but this cultures lived side by side so mixing potential is there.

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 04:14 PM
Put another way, buddy: a distinctively Near Eastern component is Red_Sea. The Sephardi average is 8.9. You score 0.22, which means you couldn't be much more than 2.5% Sephardi, if that. Moreover, you score below the Ukrainian_Lviv average for Red Sea.

Sephardics is not only Levant, we picked up Medierranean admix while we moving around, just how you Khazarians were moving around, "wandering" distinct routes. We rarely cross path but in some regions there was numerous community of Jews.

Kingslav93
07-28-2017, 04:18 PM
Someone fucking ban this ignoramus. He's not even interested in engaging.

You are jumping around again. Firstly, I had 0% Sephardic admixture and now I am all of sudden 2.5% Levant? You dont know your facts, and inconsistent theories very delusional.

wandering_amorite
07-28-2017, 04:18 PM
Sephardics is not only Levant, we picked up Medierranean admix while we moving around, just how you Khazarians were moving around, "wandering" distinct routes. We rarely cross path but in some regions there was numerous community of Jews.

"You Khazarians". Put up some evidence, or get the fuck out. Your contempt for an entire group of people is showing.

Dewsloth
07-28-2017, 04:23 PM
If you want some extra data, I am half Sephardic/half Ashkenazi. Here are my k13 results.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 40.62
2 West_Med 20.86
3 North_Atlantic 11.02
4 Baltic 8.38
5 Red_Sea 7.72
6 West_Asian 7.62
7 Northeast_African 2.26

------

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Algerian_Jewish @ 7.302477
2 Italian_Jewish @ 8.289227
3 Ashkenazi @ 8.783137
4 Tunisian_Jewish @ 9.837933
5 Libyan_Jewish @ 10.161392
6 Sephardic_Jewish @ 10.599681
7 South_Italian @ 13.616117
8 East_Sicilian @ 13.687049
9 Cyprian @ 15.073839
10 Central_Greek @ 15.554960
11 West_Sicilian @ 16.424337
12 Samaritan @ 18.696583
13 Italian_Abruzzo @ 19.168951
14 Palestinian @ 19.757679
15 Lebanese_Muslim @ 19.887392
16 Greek_Thessaly @ 20.027376
17 Tunisian @ 20.356224
18 Jordanian @ 20.478115
19 Syrian @ 20.633827
20 Lebanese_Christian @ 20.736227

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Algerian_Jewish +50% Ashkenazi @ 6.647662


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +25% Italian_Jewish +25% Samaritan @ 6.55032

If you want comedy, here are mine. I'm closer to sephardic than either of my parents (Dad in red, Mom in green). I seem to be "born-again" sephardic ;) (I'm mostly half-Lebanese, quarter English quarter German&Ashkenazi):
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.76
2 North_Atlantic 26.53
3 West_Med 14.38
4 West_Asian 14.16
5 Baltic 7.97
6 Red_Sea 6.24
7 South_Asian 1.02
8 East_Asian 0.9
9 Northeast_African 0.85
10 Oceanian 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 6.87
2 West_Sicilian 9.49
3 Tuscan 10.47
4 East_Sicilian 10.98
5 Central_Greek 11.04
6 Greek_Thessaly 11.95
7 South_Italian 12.19
8 Ashkenazi 12.6
9 Sephardic_Jewish 14.6
10 North_Italian 15.41
11 Italian_Jewish 15.62
12 Bulgarian 17.17
13 Algerian_Jewish 17.41
14 Romanian 17.77
15 Tunisian_Jewish 18.68
16 Libyan_Jewish 19.36
17 Serbian 20.83
18 Portuguese 21.63
19 Spanish_Extremadura 21.69
20 Spanish_Murcia 22.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.4% French + 46.6% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.91
2 55.7% Lebanese_Druze + 44.3% Southwest_English @ 3.04
3 54.1% Lebanese_Christian + 45.9% Southwest_English @ 3.08
4 55.1% Lebanese_Christian + 44.9% West_Scottish @ 3.21
5 53% Lebanese_Christian + 47% Southeast_English @ 3.49
6 55% Lebanese_Christian + 45% Irish @ 3.61
7 54.6% Lebanese_Christian + 45.4% Orcadian @ 3.83
8 56.8% Lebanese_Druze + 43.2% West_Scottish @ 3.99
9 56% Samaritan + 44% West_Scottish @ 4.01
10 54.7% Lebanese_Druze + 45.3% Southeast_English @ 4.02
11 50.3% Lebanese_Druze + 49.7% South_Dutch @ 4.05
12 70.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 29.9% North_German @ 4.07
13 71.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 28.8% Danish @ 4.08
14 54.9% Samaritan + 45.1% Southwest_English @ 4.15
15 72.6% Sephardic_Jewish + 27.4% Norwegian @ 4.16
16 71.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 28.7% North_Dutch @ 4.16
17 56.6% Lebanese_Druze + 43.4% Irish @ 4.19
18 71.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 28.2% Irish @ 4.25
19 53.9% Samaritan + 46.1% Southeast_English @ 4.27
20 55.8% Samaritan + 44.2% Irish @ 4.3

Dad:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 41.92
2 Baltic 20.91
3 West_Med 16.34
4 East_Med 10.86
5 West_Asian 5.89
6 Red_Sea 1.73
7 East_Asian 1.04
8 Northeast_African 0.54
9 Amerindian 0.49
10 Oceanian 0.14
11 Sub-Saharan 0.12
12 South_Asian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_German 3.51
2 South_Dutch 4.31
3 French 4.65
4 Austrian 9.51
5 Southeast_English 9.75
6 North_German 10.93
7 Southwest_English 11.41
8 East_German 11.65
9 Orcadian 11.98
10 Spanish_Cataluna 12.02
11 North_Dutch 12.12
12 Danish 12.14
13 Portuguese 12.91
14 Irish 12.98
15 Spanish_Galicia 13.11
16 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 13.21
17 Hungarian 13.23
18 West_Scottish 13.32
19 Norwegian 14.42
20 Spanish_Murcia 14.46

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.4% Norwegian + 46.6% North_Italian @ 1.58
2 59.7% Norwegian + 40.3% Tuscan @ 1.7
3 90.4% South_Dutch + 9.6% Italian_Jewish @ 1.71
4 63.9% North_Dutch + 36.1% Tuscan @ 1.76
5 57.8% Danish + 42.2% North_Italian @ 1.78
6 57.8% North_Dutch + 42.2% North_Italian @ 1.78
7 89.3% South_Dutch + 10.7% Ashkenazi @ 1.79
8 90.7% South_Dutch + 9.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 1.8
9 84.6% West_German + 15.4% North_Italian @ 1.83
10 72% Southeast_English + 28% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.87
11 91.4% South_Dutch + 8.6% Tunisian_Jewish @ 1.87
12 87.6% South_Dutch + 12.4% West_Sicilian @ 1.88
13 91.5% South_Dutch + 8.5% Libyan_Jewish @ 1.89
14 84.6% South_Dutch + 15.4% Tuscan @ 1.93
15 90.7% South_Dutch + 9.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 1.94
16 60.4% North_German + 39.6% North_Italian @ 1.95
17 87.9% West_German + 12.1% Tuscan @ 1.97
18 76.3% Southeast_English + 23.7% East_Sicilian @ 1.97
19 81.5% West_German + 18.5% Portuguese @ 1.97
20 89% South_Dutch + 11% East_Sicilian @ 2


Mom:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 43.89
2 West_Asian 22.79
3 West_Med 14.57
4 Red_Sea 10.74
5 North_Atlantic 4.22
6 Northeast_African 1.47
7 South_Asian 1.39
8 Oceanian 0.43
9 East_Asian 0.36
10 Siberian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese_Muslim 4.16
2 Lebanese_Christian 4.58
3 Samaritan 5.79
4 Lebanese_Druze 5.97
5 Syrian 6.94
6 Cyprian 7.04
7 Kurdish_Jewish 8.72
8 Palestinian 9.08
9 Iranian_Jewish 9.46
10 Jordanian 9.52
11 Assyrian 10.74
12 Tunisian_Jewish 12.87
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.62
14 Georgian_Jewish 14.5
15 Bedouin 15.25
16 Sephardic_Jewish 15.29
17 Italian_Jewish 16.7
18 Algerian_Jewish 16.77
19 Turkish 16.9
20 Armenian 16.98

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.8% Lebanese_Muslim + 47.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.76
2 80.6% Lebanese_Christian + 19.4% Turkish @ 2.14
3 91.2% Lebanese_Christian + 8.8% Tabassaran @ 2.34
4 83.9% Lebanese_Christian + 16.1% Azeri @ 2.44
5 90.4% Lebanese_Christian + 9.6% Ossetian @ 2.47
6 90.9% Lebanese_Christian + 9.1% Chechen @ 2.49
7 91% Lebanese_Christian + 9% Lezgin @ 2.5
8 62% Lebanese_Muslim + 38% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.51
9 89.3% Lebanese_Christian + 10.7% Kumyk @ 2.57
10 76.5% Samaritan + 23.5% Armenian @ 2.63
11 90.4% Lebanese_Christian + 9.6% Balkar @ 2.63
12 90.3% Lebanese_Christian + 9.7% Adygei @ 2.66
13 91.8% Lebanese_Christian + 8.2% Tadjik @ 2.66
14 90.8% Lebanese_Christian + 9.2% Kabardin @ 2.67
15 90.9% Lebanese_Christian + 9.1% North_Ossetian @ 2.69
16 67% Samaritan + 33% Assyrian @ 2.7
17 85.7% Lebanese_Christian + 14.3% Kurdish @ 2.71
18 92.5% Lebanese_Christian + 7.5% Afghan_Pashtun @ 2.75
19 82.3% Lebanese_Christian + 17.7% Armenian @ 2.82
20 89.6% Lebanese_Christian + 10.4% Turkmen @ 2.85

Targum
07-28-2017, 04:24 PM
Sephardics is not only Levant, we picked up Medierranean admix while we moving around, just how you Khazarians were moving around, "wandering" distinct routes. We rarely cross path but in some regions there was numerous community of Jews.

This is consciously deliberately ignorant bordering on autistic

Awale
07-28-2017, 05:03 PM
Sephardics is not only Levant, we picked up Medierranean admix while we moving around, just how you Khazarians were moving around, "wandering" distinct routes. We rarely cross path but in some regions there was numerous community of Jews.

Wow... These Ashkenazi Khazarians sure are clustering in the North-Caucasus where one might think they should, eh:

http://i.imgur.com/nhosxW7.png


Link to full PCA (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ARnUeK-Y8WWEx4bnFWSTc2dWM/view?usp=sharing)

? Oh, wait... :confused: They're clustering right next to Sephardim, along the Mediterranean continuum. Gosh-golly, they really just look like the Sephardim samples + a minor, extra mainland Europe-shift. Seem damn near identical otherwise. Does this... Does this mean Sephardim are Khazars too for clustering so close to Ashkenazi Khazars? I do wonder... Someone call the presses, we've made an important discovery here, I think.

//Sarcasm-off

Sikeliot
07-28-2017, 09:50 PM
Third sample with no Levant, North African or Greek in top 5 scores for Ashkenazi. I will make database

Why is this a big deal? Levant will be further down and Greek is further away because Greeks have Slavic DNA. that is why Thessaly is so much further down the list, and I can only imagine where Greek Macedonians, Epirotes, etc would be. Further away from Ashkenazim than Levantines are, I am sure.

Awale
07-28-2017, 10:21 PM
I can only imagine where Greek Macedonians, Epirotes, etc would be. Further away from Ashkenazim than Levantines are, I am sure.

I've only seen this one PCA where they were included:


http://i.imgur.com/lTDsbPj.png

Sikeliot
07-28-2017, 10:28 PM
I've only seen this one PCA where they were included:


http://i.imgur.com/lTDsbPj.png


They're clearly not too different from Bulgarians, nor are Thessalians, Thracians and Epirotes.

Awale
07-28-2017, 11:39 PM
They're clearly not too different from Bulgarians, nor are Thessalians, Thracians and Epirotes.

Actually, they almost look like intermediates between Bulgarians and Ashkenazim in there:


http://i.imgur.com/AgyHEKQ.png

Kinda reminds me of this random Greek sample's Eurogenes K=13 Oracle results:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64% Bulgarian + 36% Italian_Jewish @ 2.21
2 50.8% Bulgarian + 49.2% Ashkenazi @ 2.21
3 64.2% Bulgarian + 35.8% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.39
4 64.7% Bulgarian + 35.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.71
5 55.1% Ashkenazi + 44.9% Romanian @ 2.8

Their kit number, if you're interested: F434801. Seems like they could be Thessalian based on this:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 3.15
2 Central_Greek 7.75
3 East_Sicilian 8.85
4 Italian_Abruzzo 8.96
5 Bulgarian 9.53

Sikeliot
07-29-2017, 12:37 AM
If you look at that Greek person's Dodecad K12b, the Slavic affinity becomes evident.

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 31.74
2 Atlantic_Med 27.15
3 North_European 24.68
4 Southwest_Asian 9.79
5 Gedrosia 4.69
6 Northwest_African 1.96

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Dodecad) 6.78
2 O_Italian (Dodecad) 7.59
3 C_Italian (Dodecad) 10.04
4 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 10.61
5 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 10.96
6 Tuscan (HGDP) 11.89
7 Romanians (Behar) 11.98
8 TSI30 (Metspalu) 12.49
9 Sicilian (Dodecad) 13.08
10 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 13.12
11 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 13.19
12 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 13.36
13 N_Italian (Dodecad) 15.88
14 North_Italian (HGDP) 18.19
15 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 19.39
16 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 21.25
17 Turkish (Dodecad) 24.86
18 Cypriots (Behar) 26.1
19 Baleares (1000Genomes) 26.56
20 Hungarians (Behar) 26.61

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.5% Belorussian (Behar) @ 1.08
2 80.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.2% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 1.2
3 79.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.3% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 1.23
4 74.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25.1% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.24
5 76.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.8% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 1.3
6 75.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.3% Polish (Dodecad) @ 1.53
7 52.3% Romanians (Behar) + 47.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.61
8 77.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.6% Russian_B (Behar) @ 1.61
9 77.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.5% Russian (Dodecad) @ 1.64
10 52.2% Romanians (Behar) + 47.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.67
11 55.4% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 44.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.68
12 77.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.4% Belorussian (Behar) @ 1.77
13 75.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.9% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.79
14 55.3% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 44.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.8
15 76.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.6% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 1.81
16 79.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.2% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 1.83
17 80.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.1% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 1.84
18 77.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.4% Russian (Dodecad) @ 1.99
19 75.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.1% Polish (Dodecad) @ 2.05
20 77.5% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.5% Russian_B (Behar) @ 2.12

Awale
07-29-2017, 12:48 AM
If you look at that Greek person's Dodecad K12b, the Slavic affinity becomes evident.

It was evident enough when they were being modeled as 50-65% Bulgarian to be honest. Not like Bulgarians, as South-Slavic speakers, don't have "Slavic ancestry". Thank you for the extra demonstration, though. This is definitely quite good to go on:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.5% Belorussian (Behar) @ 1.08
2 80.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.2% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 1.2
3 79.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.3% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 1.23
4 74.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25.1% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.24
5 76.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.8% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 1.3

Dimanto
07-29-2017, 12:52 AM
If you look at that Greek person's Dodecad K12b, the Slavic affinity becomes evident.

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 31.74
2 Atlantic_Med 27.15
3 North_European 24.68
4 Southwest_Asian 9.79
5 Gedrosia 4.69
6 Northwest_African 1.96

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Dodecad) 6.78
2 O_Italian (Dodecad) 7.59
3 C_Italian (Dodecad) 10.04
4 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 10.61
5 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 10.96
6 Tuscan (HGDP) 11.89
7 Romanians (Behar) 11.98
8 TSI30 (Metspalu) 12.49
9 Sicilian (Dodecad) 13.08
10 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 13.12
11 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 13.19
12 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 13.36
13 N_Italian (Dodecad) 15.88
14 North_Italian (HGDP) 18.19
15 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 19.39
16 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 21.25
17 Turkish (Dodecad) 24.86
18 Cypriots (Behar) 26.1
19 Baleares (1000Genomes) 26.56
20 Hungarians (Behar) 26.61

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.5% Belorussian (Behar) @ 1.08
2 80.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.2% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 1.2
3 79.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.3% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 1.23
4 74.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25.1% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.24
5 76.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.8% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 1.3
6 75.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.3% Polish (Dodecad) @ 1.53
7 52.3% Romanians (Behar) + 47.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.61
8 77.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.6% Russian_B (Behar) @ 1.61
9 77.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.5% Russian (Dodecad) @ 1.64
10 52.2% Romanians (Behar) + 47.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.67
11 55.4% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 44.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.68
12 77.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.4% Belorussian (Behar) @ 1.77
13 75.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.9% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.79
14 55.3% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 44.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.8
15 76.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.6% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 1.81
16 79.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.2% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 1.83
17 80.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.1% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 1.84
18 77.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.4% Russian (Dodecad) @ 1.99
19 75.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.1% Polish (Dodecad) @ 2.05
20 77.5% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.5% Russian_B (Behar) @ 2.12

Sure, geographically they are susceptible to geneflow from Slavic influenced area's.

AJL
07-29-2017, 02:04 AM
This (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/canaanite-bible-ancient-dna-lebanon-genetics-archaeology/) has probably been posted elsewhere, but of interest to the convo.

Sikeliot
07-29-2017, 02:57 AM
It was evident enough when they were being modeled as 50-65% Bulgarian to be honest. Not like Bulgarians, as South-Slavic speakers, don't have "Slavic ancestry". Thank you for the extra demonstration, though. This is definitely quite good to go on:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.5% Belorussian (Behar) @ 1.08
2 80.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.2% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 1.2
3 79.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.3% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 1.23
4 74.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25.1% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.24
5 76.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.8% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 1.3


I think Greeks always had more NE European than do people in southern Italy (since it is easier to get to there from NE Europe and they are more Indo-European than are the islanders) so I'd say at least 15-18% genuine Slavic ancestry exists in that individual. If you use Ukrainian as the reference above it is 25% compared to a Sicilian.

bryan
07-29-2017, 12:05 PM
I think Greeks always had more NE European than do people in southern Italy (since it is easier to get to there from NE Europe and they are more Indo-European than are the islanders) so I'd say at least 15-18% genuine Slavic ancestry exists in that individual. If you use Ukrainian as the reference above it is 25% compared to a Sicilian.

East European admixture is low even in Mainland Greece. Can it be possible that native Balkan ancestry is what make Greeks plot North compared to Sicilians?

23andme:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Distribution_of_the_East_European_autosomal_admixt ure_in_Europe.png

Sikeliot
07-29-2017, 05:19 PM
East European admixture is low even in Mainland Greece. Can it be possible that native Balkan ancestry is what make Greeks plot North compared to Sicilians?

23andme:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Distribution_of_the_East_European_autosomal_admixt ure_in_Europe.png



That's 23andme. On GEDmatch and Ancestry.com it is much more evident. "Balkan" cluster sucks up much of the East European, hence why it's low even in Bulgaria. Greeks score 70%+ of this component typically.

The Balkan components provide a northward shift solely because they have an implicit pull toward NE Europe. And yes, this is why Greeks are much more north than Sicilians, sometimes halfway to Hungary.

Sikeliot
07-29-2017, 05:20 PM
This (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/canaanite-bible-ancient-dna-lebanon-genetics-archaeology/) has probably been posted elsewhere, but of interest to the convo.

Yes, it is clear that Lebanese are the closest living people to the ancient Israelites. Remember that Hebrews and Phoenicians were both subgroups of a larger Canaanite ethnicity. Their languages also reflect this clearly.

wandering_amorite
07-29-2017, 05:47 PM
Maybe by overall proximity. But I think it's clear from both autosomal and Y-data that Jews (at least Western Jews) are intermediate between Lebanese and Palestinians in terms of J2/West Asian/Iran Neolithic : J1/E-M34/SW Asian/Levant Neolithic ratio. I would bet that ancient Israelites were more Red Sea-inflected than Lebanese people are. Canaanites likely not homogenous.

Tz85
07-29-2017, 10:18 PM
Yes, it is clear that Lebanese are the closest living people to the ancient Israelites. Remember that Hebrews and Phoenicians were both subgroups of a larger Canaanite ethnicity. Their languages also reflect this clearly.

Are your referring to Arabic?, because Arabic was not spoken by Hebrews or Caananites. As far as Palestinian DNA, of course it will be similar, they are cousins of the Israelites, but they're certainly not Israelites.

wandering_amorite
07-29-2017, 11:27 PM
Are your referring to Arabic?, because Arabic was not spoken by Hebrews or Caananites. As far as Palestinian DNA, of course it will be similar, they are cousins of the Israelites, but they're certainly not Israelites.

It would be surprising if they weren't of substantial Israelite descent (with Arab and African admixture).

Tz85
07-30-2017, 12:18 AM
It would be surprising if they weren't of substantial Israelite descent (with Arab and African admixture).

Absolutely been mixing for sure, but their not closer to the Original Israelites than the Jews are.

alexfritz
07-30-2017, 12:22 AM
Yes, it is clear that Lebanese are the closest living people to the ancient Israelites. Remember that Hebrews and Phoenicians were both subgroups of a larger Canaanite ethnicity. Their languages also reflect this clearly.

define 'closest living people' - on what criteria?
how many alleles they still share with the ancient folks?

Rach_27
07-30-2017, 12:54 AM
An interesting scripture in terms of modern Israelite locations (aside from Israel itself):

From Isaiah 11

'In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving remnant of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean.

He will raise a banner for the nations
and gather the exiles of Israel;
he will assemble the scattered people of Judah
from the four quarters of the earth.'

Agamemnon
07-30-2017, 01:29 AM
Yes, it is clear that Lebanese are the closest living people to the ancient Israelites. Remember that Hebrews and Phoenicians were both subgroups of a larger Canaanite ethnicity. Their languages also reflect this clearly.

That would be the Samaritans.


It would be surprising if they weren't of substantial Israelite descent (with Arab and African admixture).

I agree, although on the Y-DNA side Palestinian muslims do seem to have absorbed a lot of Arabian admixture, the branches of J1 they carry are almost entirely Arabian for example and I think this could also be the case for the branches of other haplogroups they carry.

fished
07-30-2017, 01:58 AM
That would be the Samaritans.

Indeed, and I've always thought this should have been obvious all along.

wandering_amorite
07-30-2017, 02:19 AM
I agree, although on the Y-DNA side Palestinian muslims do seem to have absorbed a lot of Arabian admixture, the branches of J1 they carry are almost entirely Arabian for example and I think this could also be the case for the branches of other haplogroups they carry.

Curious to hear more on this point.

Tz85
07-30-2017, 02:27 AM
An interesting scripture in terms of modern Israelite locations (aside from Israel itself):

From Isaiah 11

'In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving remnant of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean.

He will raise a banner for the nations
and gather the exiles of Israel;
he will assemble the scattered people of Judah
from the four quarters of the earth.'

The lands mentioned to the people at the time were the 4 corners of the earth. Now the 4 corners is literally all of the land. These lands are also where our people dwelt.


I agree that the Samaritans are the closest population in existence. They have the oldest tradition and custom. Interesting enough their priesthood is not ydna J.

Agamemnon
07-30-2017, 02:52 AM
Curious to hear more on this point.

Most of the Palestinian (Muslim) J1 results I've seen carry typically-Arabian branches of L858 like ZS1585, ZS1574, FGC1723 or FGC4422, their closest matches are either in the Arabian peninsula, Sudan or North Africa.

Kaldo
07-30-2017, 04:58 AM
That would be the Samaritans.

What about Middle Eastern Jews?

wandering_amorite
07-30-2017, 10:41 AM
What about Middle Eastern Jews?

Most are significantly Mesopotamian-shifted (aside from Yemenite Jews, who are mostly Arabian). Syrian Jews, though not without Euro-Mediterranean ancestry, probably rank up there.

Nachobou
07-31-2017, 06:35 PM
Is there any Sephardy Jews marker?

Sikeliot
08-01-2017, 09:12 PM
Most are significantly Mesopotamian-shifted (aside from Yemenite Jews, who are mostly Arabian). Syrian Jews, though not without Euro-Mediterranean ancestry, probably rank up there.

Syrian Jews shift toward Ashkenazim and Sicilians but not completely so. They are not fully Near Eastern, unlike Iraqi Jews who have significant Assyrian ancestry.