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picto22
07-14-2017, 11:45 PM
Hi folks,

100% Great Britain and Ireland

97.1% Aberdeenshire
1.5% Cornwall
1.4% South east england

Seems very high compared to other peoples results that i have looked at on here...

Cheers

sktibo
07-14-2017, 11:59 PM
Hi folks,

100% Great Britain and Ireland

97.1% Aberdeenshire
1.5% Cornwall
1.4% South east england

Seems very high compared to other peoples results that i have looked at on here...

Cheers

Post a full screen shot map included once you have enough posts to do so...

Even better, and something you can do right now is you can share your living DNA page and link it here. lots of users do this. With a result like yours we need evidence it's real as in the past people have made up results and posted them for some very strange reasons

picto22
07-15-2017, 12:08 AM
Will do...

picto22
07-15-2017, 12:11 AM
Post a full screen shot map included once you have enough posts to do so...

Even better, and something you can do right now is you can share your living DNA page and link it here. lots of users do this. With a result like yours we need evidence it's real as in the past people have made up results and posted them for some very strange reasons

If i do that... does everyone then know my information?

picto22
07-15-2017, 12:19 AM
When i select share it says "error"

sktibo
07-15-2017, 12:30 AM
If i do that... does everyone then know my information?

they know your name, and your DNA results.

You could probably upload your images to an image hosting site and link them too.

picto22
07-15-2017, 08:02 AM
Iam not allowed to post links

07-15-2017, 08:40 AM
Iam not allowed to post links

Put it in your signature, like I have done picto22. Yes people will know your name, but so what?

picto22
07-15-2017, 08:53 AM
Link is in signature...

07-15-2017, 09:28 AM
Link is in signature...

Thanks, so does this match your known ancestry? Never before seen such a high regional %. Cool.
What happens to your results in the standard and caucious modes?

picto22
07-15-2017, 10:00 AM
It matches my known ancestry that i know of... great grandparents. Never investigated. I liked the science involved but its hard to understand. On standard and cautious, the south east England changes to Great Britain and Ireland unassigned.

ollie444
07-15-2017, 10:56 AM
You must be a very close relative of one of the Aberdeenshire samples.

07-15-2017, 11:08 AM
You must be a very close relative of one of the Aberdeenshire samples.

Yes Ollie, maybe even a very close relative, that might explain picto’s results.

ollie444
07-15-2017, 11:28 AM
Yes Ollie, maybe even a very close relative, that might explain picto’s results.

The 'very' was already in there! ;)

picto22
07-15-2017, 11:54 AM
How close of a relative are you suggesting...

picto22
07-15-2017, 12:10 PM
In my YDNA there is no % from the uk...
Is the test faulty?

ollie444
07-15-2017, 12:51 PM
How close of a relative are you suggesting...


In my YDNA there is no % from the uk...
Is the test faulty?

I don't know how close, but it's either that or a fault in the test!

What are your Y DNA results?

picto22
07-15-2017, 01:21 PM
1756717567

picto22
07-15-2017, 01:25 PM
1756817569

Pylsteen
07-15-2017, 02:15 PM
H2 has been found sometimes in Neolithic European samples, it is probably a relict from that time. Other possibility is from Romani.

sktibo
07-15-2017, 03:44 PM
Very interesting results picto, thanks for posting your images. Are all your family from eastern Scotland?

ollie444
07-15-2017, 03:51 PM
H2 has been found sometimes in Neolithic European samples, it is probably a relict from that time. Other possibility is from Romani.

Odd in someone who seems to be almost 100% Scottish though. @picto22 do your test results line up with your known ancestry? Are you completely Scottish?

picto22
07-15-2017, 03:56 PM
Iam in the pub... i will go down and ask my granny shortly. (Dads side)

greerpalmer
07-15-2017, 05:34 PM
Very intriguing results. It appears as though your non Scottish results may be a misinterpretation of a very deep traveling ancestor

See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gypsy_and_Traveller_groups

picto22
07-15-2017, 05:57 PM
Right... its a weird story. Apparently my great granny is from hartlepool... she was a sister of a few siblings but her mum and dad gave her away and she came up to scotland in banff to live because they had too many children.

FionnSneachta
07-15-2017, 06:03 PM
Right... its a weird story. Apparently my great granny is from hartlepool... she was a sister of a few siblings but her mum and dad gave her away and she came up to scotland in banff to live because they had too many children.

Never mind I see that you're talking about your great grandmother. It would be a good idea to do some research on the family. They were possibly relatives that she was sent to so that the family originally came from Aberdeenshire, meaning that your results would still be accurate.

sktibo
07-15-2017, 06:20 PM
Right... its a weird story. Apparently my great granny is from hartlepool... she was a sister of a few siblings but her mum and dad gave her away and she came up to scotland in banff to live because they had too many children.

Got anything less specific for us? Start with country? Are all your ancestors actually from Scotland?

FionnSneachta
07-15-2017, 06:23 PM
It's interesting to see that all of the results are so isolated from each too as well as the high result. They're on opposite ends and sides of the country. Usually the trace regions would be close enough together where there could be some overlap. All of my results are along the coast of Britain on the east and south with no region in the midlands. This may be since they're trace regions though of course.

avalon
07-15-2017, 06:59 PM
Amazing results picto, easily the highest we've seen for a single region!

I don't suppose a close relative of yours was actually an Aberdeenshire participant in the POBI project, as that's the sort of score I would expect for someone in the LivingDNA dataset?

avalon
07-15-2017, 07:19 PM
Also, picto, I notice from your screenshot you already have complete results. When did you get your results?

I got standard months ago and am still waiting for complete/cautious.

FionnSneachta
07-15-2017, 08:03 PM
I was actually just looking at my top three Living DNA region results. As you can see on my map that I made using Paint, my third region is quite isolated from the other two regions so it can happen if it's there. It's an interesting result all right. Definitely the highest yet.

17572

picto22
07-16-2017, 12:39 AM
Everyone in my family was scottish until i did this... what my granny said was very interesting... but, i do not want to dig up anything that will upset her (even though things do not add up). She is the nicest woman i have ever met and i love her to bits.

sktibo
07-16-2017, 01:34 AM
Everyone in my family was scottish until i did this... what my granny said was very interesting... but, i do not want to dig up anything that will upset her (even though things do not add up). She is the nicest woman i have ever met and i love her to bits.

You're definitely 100% Scottish... our purebred Irish members appear to get more English than yourself! the nature of DNA testing is that people get bits of other little areas because there's a lot of genetic commonality in the British isles

picto22
07-16-2017, 09:01 AM
I ordered the kit back in November last year...
Samples were sent away on the 5/5/17
Test started on the 15/5/17
Results on the 13/7/17

ollie444
07-16-2017, 10:49 AM
Also, picto, I notice from your screenshot you already have complete results. When did you get your results?

I got standard months ago and am still waiting for complete/cautious.

I'm assuming you have contacted Living DNA about this?

Gentleman
07-16-2017, 12:49 PM
1756717567

Yeah, I wonder if that list of percentages is about H generally, not about H2 specifically.

Wikipedia states, "Haplogroup H2 (P96) seems to be primarily European, and very ancient. It was recently found in Linear Pottery culture and Neolithic Iberia[1][2] and may have entered Europe as long ago during the Epipaleolithic. It was found to have a somewhat higher average concentration in Western Europe, but was also found amongst many ethnicities of the Near East, most notably Armenians and Iranian peoples, as well as in India and other countries of Southern Asia." (Haplogroup H (Y-DNA) page in Wikipedia.)

I couldn't find percentages for H2 itself, but based on what I've read I don't think H2 is any significant indicator of Romani. (If you are any OTHER type of H though, in Scotland, then Romani is far more likely.)

picto22
07-16-2017, 04:09 PM
The mtdna is X2B8.
Aye its tricky to understand... Iam trying to do some research on it.

sktibo
07-16-2017, 04:50 PM
Also, picto, I notice from your screenshot you already have complete results. When did you get your results?

I got standard months ago and am still waiting for complete/cautious.

You should really make a post on their Facebook page, you've been waiting too long to deal with this problem privately IMO...

picto22
07-16-2017, 06:37 PM
I have found this info...

H2 – H2 is somewhat common in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus, but likely spread from Western Europe because it is not found in significant frequency in the Near East. It is found in its highest frequency in Germany and Scotland.

X2b8 : found in Ireland, Scotland and Norway

That would explain the high percentage from scotland i would think...

avalon
07-16-2017, 08:09 PM
I'm assuming you have contacted Living DNA about this?

Yes, I did email them and they just said they were very busy with 10,000 customers and that they would get the update done eventually.

Think it was around March time when I received standard results. Does seem strange though as picto has only just received results and gone straight to complete.

avalon
07-16-2017, 08:47 PM
You should really make a post on their Facebook page, you've been waiting too long to deal with this problem privately IMO...

I'm not on facebook, but anyway I'm a patient guy. :)

I think I'm right in saying that the first batch of cautious/complete results were about a month ago so another batch may be due soon enough.

Gentleman
07-17-2017, 10:29 AM
I have found this info...

H2 H2 is somewhat common in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus, but likely spread from Western Europe because it is not found in significant frequency in the Near East. It is found in its highest frequency in Germany and Scotland.

X2b8 : found in Ireland, Scotland and Norway

That would explain the high percentage from scotland i would think...

Yes, a true Scot, through and through. Would be interesting to see results if you run through GEDmatch calculators.

avalon
07-17-2017, 02:23 PM
I was actually just looking at my top three Living DNA region results. As you can see on my map that I made using Paint, my third region is quite isolated from the other two regions so it can happen if it's there. It's an interesting result all right. Definitely the highest yet.

17572

I didn't realise it was that easy to photoshop the livingDNA map in Paint!?

FionnSneachta
07-17-2017, 03:15 PM
I didn't realise it was that easy to photoshop the livingDNA map in Paint!?

It's surprisingly not that hard to do. It might take a while but certain people would be happy to spend a long time creating it. It would be even easier if I was someone that saved everyone's maps that have been posted to my computer and if you have a region that's not beside another region. Getting rid of Northwest Scotland from Northern Ireland was a pain. That was just using Paint too. I'm sure that there's more advanced software out there that would make it a lot easier and quicker but I can only do this sort of stuff on Paint. Of course, the majority of people wouldn't do that but all it takes is one person to make you doubt everything.

sktibo
07-17-2017, 05:33 PM
It's surprisingly not that hard to do. It might take a while but certain people would be happy to spend a long time creating it. It would be even easier if I was someone that saved everyone's maps that have been posted to my computer and if you have a region that's not beside another region. Getting rid of Northwest Scotland from Northern Ireland was a pain. That was just using Paint too. I'm sure that there's more advanced software out there that would make it a lot easier and quicker but I can only do this sort of stuff on Paint. Of course, the majority of people wouldn't do that but all it takes is one person to make you doubt everything.

With people having invented photoshopped results here in the past, I think some of us will always be wary when we see results such as this. I don't want to doubt Picto, but if he would be able to share his Living DNA results using their share tool we would be able to be completely on board and it would prove these truly are his results. His screenshots, featuring the desktop background and the fact that he took several of them are convincing, however. Thanks for supplying those Picto, but any chance you might consider trying to get the sharing to work? Hopefully you understand what a rare occurrence your results are and the history of certain users on this forum making many of us skeptical.

MacUalraig
07-17-2017, 06:03 PM
agreed, sadly anything involving Romani and/or Y hg H needs vetting as they have been the subject of blatant falsification in recent months. Also it has to be said that afaik H is incredibly rare in Scotland. So I would really like to see the full list of SNPs from the raw data too.

sktibo
07-17-2017, 06:07 PM
agreed, sadly anything involving Romani and/or Y hg H needs vetting as they have been the subject of blatant falsification in recent months. Also it has to be said that afaik H is incredibly rare in Scotland. So I would really like to see the full list of SNPs from the raw data too.

Yes. The Romani haplogroup is a red flag for sure.

ollie444
07-17-2017, 06:30 PM
With people having invented photoshopped results here in the past, I think some of us will always be wary when we see results such as this. I don't want to doubt Picto, but if he would be able to share his Living DNA results using their share tool we would be able to be completely on board and it would prove these truly are his results. His screenshots, featuring the desktop background and the fact that he took several of them are convincing, however. Thanks for supplying those Picto, but any chance you might consider trying to get the sharing to work? Hopefully you understand what a rare occurrence your results are and the history of certain users on this forum making many of us skeptical.

Having zoomed in really closely and compared the shape of the regions with the ones in my results, I reckon the screenshot is genuine. But yes I agree, to put this beyond any the doubt, the only way to do so is with a link to the shared results. I can appreciate why someone might not want to share this, given that it has their full name on.

picto22
07-17-2017, 06:39 PM
I tried uploading to Gedmatch but it i think iam doing it wrong... the only tool i got to work was the eye colour.
I detected a bit of doubt from some of the comments... no probs.
I understand that you have issues with the results but if it is false then it is livingdna that is the cause.
On you wanting me to upload my raw data... I had a look at the Y dna gene data just now... An excel spreadsheet with many numbers and letters.
How can you tell from that?

MacUalraig
07-17-2017, 06:57 PM
we could see all the positive markers leading to your terminal SNP (H2 or whatever). if you want assistance please pm me.

picto22
07-17-2017, 08:00 PM
AM00847/AMM008/B65
AM01921.2/S475.2/Z2983.2
CTS10083
CTS109/M8948
CTS10946/M5804
CTS1217/M5597
CTS125/M5576
CTS1996/M5651
CTS2229/PF6254
CTS3460/M5670
CTS3941/CTS3941/PF2135/PF2135
CTS4076/Z1011
CTS4443/M3696/PF2677
CTS5318/M5690
CTS543/M5584
CTS6135/M3708/PF2693
CTS6203
CTS6252/M5700
CTS6378
CTS6800/M5713
CTS7933/M5728
CTS8148
CTS8243/M5736
CTS9679
CTS9722/M5762
F1046/M3646/PF2610/YSC0001295
F1167/PF4516/YSC0001296
F1320/M3657/PF2621
F1704/M3675/PF2651
F1714/F1714/M3677/PF2653/PF2653
F1767/M3683/PF2660
F2075/PF2685
F2837/M3726/PF2722
F2993/M3737/PF2732/V3940
F3335/M3754/PF2758
F3424/M1489
F3692/M3650
F847
FGC1599/S23720/Z7822
K466
L449/PF6223
L726
L882/M3749/PF2745
L963
M10372.1/ZS6696.1
M213/P137/PF2673/Page38
M2713/Z4171
M2936/Z4273
M2942/Z4276
M2955/Z4282
M2966/Z4292
M299
M2992/Z4307
M3052/Z4336
M3062/Z4340
M3603/PF3075
M3637/PF2589/V186
M3639/PF2591
M3751/PF2748
M5650
M5682
M5695/PF1417/V41
M5708
M5737/PF892
M5760
M5781/PF1040
M5788
M5809/PF1237
M5819
M5822
M8956
M8961
M8983
M8999
M9009
M9015
M9017
M9020
M9025
M9028
M9032
M9034
M9037
M9038
M9042
M9045
M9054
M9056
M9064
M9066
M9110
M9169
M9194.3
M9200
M9215
M9218
M9223
M9231
M9237
M9246
M9257
M9261
M9280
M9288/PF985
M9292
M9313
M9317
M9341
M9348
M9380
M9387
P105/P105
P135/PF2741
P140
P149
P160/PF2618
P161
P187/PF2632
P84.1
P96
PF2608
PF7372
S484/Z48
SRY10831.1
V153
V1580/Z3965
Z11010
Z11892
Z11910
Z11916
Z15942
Z1759
Z18049.2
Z1853
Z19760
Z21885
Z3225
Z3339.2
Z3604
Z3701
Z40387
Z40389
Z40392
Z40393
Z40394
Z40395
Z4145/Z4147
Z4309

Pylsteen
07-17-2017, 08:18 PM
Your list contains P96, that indeed defines H2. That is rare; there is a FTDNA group H, search for P96, there are a few West-European results:


https://www.familytreedna.com/public/YHaploGroupH?iframe=yresults (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/YHaploGroupH?iframe=yresults)

picto22
07-17-2017, 11:16 PM
Your list contains P96, that indeed defines H2. That is rare; there is a FTDNA group H, search for P96, there are a few West-European results:


https://www.familytreedna.com/public/YHaploGroupH?iframe=yresults (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/YHaploGroupH?iframe=yresults)

Cheers... i was having a look. Very interesting. I think i will give livingdna a call tomorrow.

FionnSneachta
07-18-2017, 09:00 AM
I was just thinking have we ever had anyone on the thread who based on the paper trail had ancestry from one region or regions beside each other? Maybe that's why the results are so different to what other people have gotten in terms of the number of regions. I know that Picto hasn't really done any research but for the moment we can assume that his ancestors all came from the one region and even in the middle of the region so that there's no overlap with regions beside Aberdeenshire.

avalon
07-18-2017, 09:32 AM
I was just thinking have we ever had anyone on the thread who based on the paper trail had ancestry from one region or regions beside each other? Maybe that's why the results are so different to what other people have gotten in terms of the number of regions. I know that Picto hasn't really done any research but for the moment we can assume that his ancestors all came from the one region and even in the middle of the region so that there's no overlap with regions beside Aberdeenshire.

I don't think so, most people appear to have had known ancestry from different regions and results usually show at least 6 or 7 regions I believe, sometimes more.

Picto's results certainly are very unusual. I think they are possible, if he is very closely related to LivingDNA's Aberdeenshire samples, however, I hope Picto doesn't take this personally, but since Calas I have become more suspicious.

picto22
07-18-2017, 09:44 AM
Living dna said because the 3 test are so similar (complete,standard and cautious) then there should be no doubt in the results. I think she said cautious is the most important one.
I do not think my results will be rare in this area because there are many clan names and i think people tend to stay in this area.
I have to keep a look out for the changes in aberdeenshire because it will hopefully get broken down more into smaller areas.

picto22
07-18-2017, 09:46 AM
Yes she also said it could be a close relative as you guys have said...

picto22
07-18-2017, 10:11 AM
You can believe in what i am saying... Or not. I do not care anymore. I will go somewhere else.
And who is Calas.

MacUalraig
07-18-2017, 10:31 AM
Living dna said because the 3 test are so similar (complete,standard and cautious) then there should be no doubt in the results. I think she said cautious is the most important one.
I do not think my results will be rare in this area because there are many clan names and i think people tend to stay in this area.
I have to keep a look out for the changes in aberdeenshire because it will hopefully get broken down more into smaller areas.

I am focussed on the Y snps which are unrelated to the above. I have analysed your raw data and found
9 hg H down to M9313=H2a1 (lower than they gave you)
38 false calls from A, C, D, E, G, J, N, O and R (=25.5% false positives!?)
the rest are consistent ie upstream

picto22
07-18-2017, 10:37 AM
So i am Subclade H2a1...
What do you mean by false calls?

MacUalraig
07-18-2017, 10:40 AM
calls where according to the tree structure you should be negative but were reported positive

picto22
07-18-2017, 11:31 AM
I can see what you are saying about the tree structure.
Is the test results wrong?

MacUalraig
07-18-2017, 11:45 AM
Well, I cross checked my Y results and mine were pretty bog standard. I would immediately verify H if that's what I got - and NOT by doing STR testing!!! You need sequencing or a universal SNP test, maybe Geno 2 would be a good bet as you can't get Chromo2 anymore. Or you could do some single snp tests at yseq with help.

If you test at yseq you can add your snp results to a public group linked only to a kit number so we can see them but not your name.

ollie444
07-18-2017, 12:07 PM
Living dna said because the 3 test are so similar (complete,standard and cautious) then there should be no doubt in the results. I think she said cautious is the most important one.
I do not think my results will be rare in this area because there are many clan names and i think people tend to stay in this area.
I have to keep a look out for the changes in aberdeenshire because it will hopefully get broken down more into smaller areas.


Yes she also said it could be a close relative as you guys have said...


You can believe in what i am saying... Or not. I do not care anymore. I will go somewhere else.
And who is Calas.

I believe you.

I don't think they are likely to break down the Aberdeenshire region. I am a quarter from Aberdeenshire and only receive about 8%, so presumably you do match the current reference set much better than I do.

ollie444
07-18-2017, 12:11 PM
I am focussed on the Y snps which are unrelated to the above. I have analysed your raw data and found
9 hg H down to M9313=H2a1 (lower than they gave you)
38 false calls from A, C, D, E, G, J, N, O and R (=25.5% false positives!?)
the rest are consistent ie upstream

I'm not really up to speed on y and mtdna, but from what lots of people on the forum are saying, Living DNA calls do not seem to be very accurate for y/mtdna. Do you think that they are actually aware of this? It seems fairly shabby for customers such as myself who don't understand y/mtdna so well to be given inaccurate information. EDIT: I mean that's bad for everyone, but it is misleading for those of us not so knowledgeable.

avalon
07-18-2017, 01:02 PM
You can believe in what i am saying... Or not. I do not care anymore. I will go somewhere else.
And who is Calas.

Calas was a poster in recent months who fabricated LivingDNA results. She also posted quite a bit about Scotland and Romanies (which have come up in your results).

I am not saying I don't believe you, I just hope you can understand why there might be a bit of skepticism, as your results are quite unusual.

Gentleman
07-18-2017, 01:11 PM
Well, I cross checked my Y results and mine were pretty bog standard. I would immediately verify H if that's what I got - and NOT by doing STR testing!!! You need sequencing or a universal SNP test, maybe Geno 2 would be a good bet as you can't get Chromo2 anymore. Or you could do some single snp tests at yseq with help.

If you test at yseq you can add your snp results to a public group linked only to a kit number so we can see them but not your name.

Yes, agree H2 is intriguing result. While it can certainly be European (including Scottish:P) it's SO rare that Eupedia don't even bother to include it (or any H) in their extensive list of European country results - http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml . If you are H2 it's a distinctiveness you might take pride in. I'd be astounded if they flat out got the haplogroup incorrect but, along the lines of what your countryman said, it would be a result I wouldn't mind double checking, if I were you.

picto22
07-18-2017, 02:15 PM
Aye sounds like a verification is needed then.
Could you send me a link to the tests which you mention and i will have a look.
I had a look at geno2, is it the same as livingdna?
There are many on yseq and i dont know where to start on there?

MacUalraig
07-18-2017, 04:31 PM
You can test individual SNPs at shop.yseq.net for 14 each. This one is at H2

https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=22&products_id=47586

the H2a1 line is marked as under investigation...

The advantages of yseq is they are cheap, fast, based in Europe and will add any snp you ask for to their catalogue. They also have some H panel or group tests which aren't in the catalogue yet - H-L901 and H-M82 but I would start with the single marker I mentioned first.

Geno 2 next gen is a bulk chip test similarish to LivingDNA. It is static though so you are stuck with their snp selection.

I prefer plan A.

https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpH.html

lines with a tilde ~ at the end are 'under investigation'.

picto22
07-18-2017, 09:42 PM
Yseq H2 is ordered...

picto22
07-21-2017, 07:04 PM
Can you look through the admixture in GedMatch if you have anyones kit number?

ollie444
07-21-2017, 07:40 PM
Can you look through the admixture in GedMatch if you have anyones kit number?

Yes you can.

picto22
07-21-2017, 07:48 PM
i checked you the noo.
Try mine Z664100

greerpalmer
07-21-2017, 09:17 PM
i checked you the noo.
Try mine Z664100

Anyone else getting a much more German feel than Scottish? Definitely some sort of Asian-NA too.

picto22
07-21-2017, 10:53 PM
German? Well i cant understand about 90% of the apps on there. Can someone explain some of the selections and findings?

picto22
08-05-2017, 12:31 AM
https://www.yseq.net/group_alleles.php?gid=319

MacUalraig
08-06-2017, 05:22 PM
Thanks for posting the alleles, looks like good confirmation down to H2.

sktibo
08-06-2017, 06:22 PM
So we're dealing with a genuine H2 Scottish individual? This is who Calas wishes they were I reckon.. I suggest that you don't give out your Gedmatch or DNA info to people that ask you for it Picto.