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View Full Version : MDLP K16 distance of Irish populations for English-Connacht closest, Munster furthest



Sikeliot
07-17-2017, 10:55 PM
Connacht is consistently closest, and Munster, other than Cork and Kerry which are part of it, is the furthest away most of the time. Ulster must be the Catholic Irish, as it is sometimes furthest.

Why might Connacht be closest? All I can think of is having a lot of Norman ancestry that passed through Britain first. Or it could be something more ancient.

http://www.old-maps.com/Ireland/IrelandMaps/Modern/Ireland4AnciemtProvinces.jpg


Yorkshire:

1 Neolithic 30.26
2 NorthEastEuropean 25.71
3 Steppe 23.01
4 Caucasian 19.79
5 Indian 0.95
6 Australian 0.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French (WestFrance) 2.9
2 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 3.11
3 Scottish (Grampian) 3.27
4 Scottish (Fife) 3.29
5 Scottish (Highlands) 3.38
6 Irish (Connacht) 3.38
7 English (England) 3.46
8 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 3.6
9 German (Germany) 3.8
10 English (Kent) 3.8
11 Scottish (Borders) 3.84
12 Irish (Leinster) 3.87
13 Irish (Munster) 3.9
14 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 4.03
15 Irish (Ulster) 4.12
16 English (Cornwall) 4.15
17 Dutch (Netherlands) 4.33
18 Welsh (Wales) 4.6
19 French (France) 4.65
20 French (NorthwestFrance) 5.02




Yorkshire:

# Population (source) Distance
1 English (Kent) 1.93
2 English (Cornwall) 2.76
3 French (WestFrance) 2.81
4 Irish (Ulster) 3.09
5 Irish (Connacht) 3.27
6 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 3.35
7 Scottish (Highlands) 3.38
8 Irish (Leinster) 3.5
9 Scottish (Grampian) 3.53
10 English (England) 3.69
11 Scottish (Borders) 3.7
12 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.75
13 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 3.94
14 Scottish (Fife) 4.01
15 Irish (Munster) 4.28
16 French (France) 4.29
17 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 5.09
18 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 5.37
19 German (Germany) 5.61
20 Welsh (Wales) 5.76


Gloucestershire:

# Population (source) Distance
1 English (Kent) 2.86
2 French (France) 4.12
3 English (Cornwall) 4.46
4 French (WestFrance) 4.67
5 Irish (Connacht) 4.78
6 Irish (Ulster) 5.01
7 Scottish (Highlands) 5.31
8 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 5.41
9 Scottish (Grampian) 5.49
10 Irish (Leinster) 5.52
11 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 5.53
12 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 5.77
13 Scottish (Borders) 5.77
14 English (England) 5.87
15 Scottish (Fife) 6.1
16 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 6.15
17 Irish (Munster) 6.27
18 German (Germany) 6.36
19 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 6.58
20 Welsh (Wales) 7.43


Half Worcestershire, half British American from Georgia:

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 32.38
2 NorthEastEuropean 25.17
3 Steppe 24.36
4 Caucasian 16.1
5 Amerindian 1
6 Indian 0.69
7 NorthAfrican 0.29

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 English (Kent) 2.19
2 French (France) 3.58
3 English (Cornwall) 3.61
4 Irish (Connacht) 3.88
5 French (WestFrance) 3.89
6 Irish (Ulster) 4.12
7 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 4.39
8 Scottish (Highlands) 4.45
9 Irish (Leinster) 4.54
10 Scottish (Grampian) 4.59
11 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 4.88
12 English (England) 5.01
13 Scottish (Borders) 5.11
14 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 5.13
15 Scottish (Fife) 5.31
16 Irish (Munster) 5.38
17 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 5.67
18 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 5.94
19 German (Germany) 6.18
20 Welsh (Wales) 7.02


Multiple regions in England (Durham, Lancashire, etc):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 30.22
2 NorthEastEuropean 27.52
3 Steppe 22.9
4 Caucasian 17.34
5 Indian 1.35
6 Siberian 0.54
7 Australian 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 2.39
2 English (Kent) 2.49
3 Irish (Connacht) 2.72
4 French (WestFrance) 2.75
5 Scottish (Highlands) 2.83
6 Irish (Ulster) 2.89
7 English (Cornwall) 2.92
8 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 3.04
9 Scottish (Borders) 3.08
10 Scottish (Grampian) 3.23
11 Irish (Leinster) 3.26
12 English (England) 3.44
13 Scottish (Fife) 3.45
14 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.53
15 Irish (Munster) 3.54
16 Dutch (Netherlands) 4.45
17 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 4.54
18 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 4.87
19 Welsh (Wales) 5.03
20 Norwegian (Norwegia) 5.14


Scotland:

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 31.12
2 NorthEastEuropean 25.98
3 Steppe 24.9
4 Caucasian 16.22
5 Amerindian 0.81
6 Siberian 0.75
7 SouthEastAsian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 English (Kent) 1.88
2 Irish (Connacht) 2.91
3 English (Cornwall) 2.93
4 Irish (Ulster) 3.49
5 French (WestFrance) 3.75
6 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.75
7 Scottish (Highlands) 3.8
8 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 3.97
9 Scottish (Grampian) 4.05
10 Irish (Leinster) 4.06
11 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 4.4
12 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 4.41
13 Irish (Munster) 4.52
14 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 4.56
15 English (England) 4.61
16 French (France) 4.68
17 Scottish (Borders) 4.74
18 Scottish (Fife) 4.83
19 Norwegian (Norwegia) 6.09
20 Dutch (Netherlands) 6.37


Lincolnshire:

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 29.91
2 Steppe 25.45
3 NorthEastEuropean 23.42
4 Caucasian 19.98
5 NearEast 0.67
6 NorthAfrican 0.36
7 Oceanic 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Scottish (Grampian) 4.44
2 Irish (Connacht) 4.45
3 French (WestFrance) 4.68
4 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 4.73
5 English (England) 4.77
6 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 4.77
7 Scottish (Highlands) 4.84
8 Scottish (Fife) 4.9
9 English (Kent) 4.99
10 Irish (Munster) 5.02
11 Irish (Leinster) 5.04
12 English (Cornwall) 5.06
13 French (France) 5.07
14 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 5.37
15 Irish (Ulster) 5.43
16 German (Germany) 5.49
17 Scottish (Borders) 5.83
18 French (NorthwestFrance) 5.93
19 Dutch (Netherlands) 6.25
20 French (EastFrance) 6.28

Sikeliot
07-17-2017, 11:09 PM
Do British posters on here find the same to be true for themselves?

A Norfolk L-M20
07-17-2017, 11:33 PM
East Anglia (my mother, all known ancestry East Anglian):

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 30.99
2 NorthEastEuropean 24.29
3 Steppe 22.03
4 Caucasian 21.49
5 Amerindian 0.61
6 Arctic 0.37
7 Oceanic 0.19
8 Australian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 German (Germany) 2.65
2 French (NorthwestFrance) 3.87
3 French (EastFrance) 4.06
4 French (WestFrance) 4.33
5 French (France) 4.51
6 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 4.72
7 Scottish (Fife) 4.74
8 Scottish (Grampian) 4.82
9 Welsh (Wales) 5.03
10 English (England) 5.17
11 Scottish (Highlands) 5.2
12 Irish (Connacht) 5.23
13 Scottish (Borders) 5.4
14 English (Kent) 5.63
15 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 5.63
16 Irish (Munster) 5.63
17 Dutch (Netherlands) 5.64
18 Irish (Leinster) 5.64
19 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 5.88
20 German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) 6.04

Sikeliot
07-17-2017, 11:37 PM
East Anglia (my mother, all known ancestry East Anglian):

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 30.99
2 NorthEastEuropean 24.29
3 Steppe 22.03
4 Caucasian 21.49
5 Amerindian 0.61
6 Arctic 0.37
7 Oceanic 0.19
8 Australian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 German (Germany) 2.65
2 French (NorthwestFrance) 3.87
3 French (EastFrance) 4.06
4 French (WestFrance) 4.33
5 French (France) 4.51
6 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 4.72
7 Scottish (Fife) 4.74
8 Scottish (Grampian) 4.82
9 Welsh (Wales) 5.03
10 English (England) 5.17
11 Scottish (Highlands) 5.2
12 Irish (Connacht) 5.23
13 Scottish (Borders) 5.4
14 English (Kent) 5.63
15 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 5.63
16 Irish (Munster) 5.63
17 Dutch (Netherlands) 5.64
18 Irish (Leinster) 5.64
19 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 5.88
20 German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) 6.04


Connacht closest yes -- must be all that Anglo-Norman ancestry -- but Munster is next. Ulster would be last.

firemonkey
07-18-2017, 12:02 AM
British isles(multiple regions-Derbyshire,Gloucestershire,Lancashire,Staffordshir e,Warwickshire,Worcestershire,Yorkshire, Banffshire,East Lothian,Lanarkshire(Glasgow),Midlothian,Morayshire ,Ulster,?Other Irish regions)

23andMe data


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Dutch_Netherlands @ 1.902381
2 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 2.125359
3 Scottish_Fife @ 2.608324
4 Irish_Munster @ 2.808803
5 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 2.912295
6 Scottish_Highlands @ 3.068254
7 Scottish_Borders @ 3.420792
8 Irish_Connacht @ 3.496096
9 English_England @ 3.498291
10 Scottish_Grampian @ 3.510723
11 German_Lipsian_(Saxony) @ 3.535520
12 French_WestFrance @ 3.732966
13 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 4.059118
14 Irish_Leinster @ 4.114424
15 Hungarian_WestUkraine @ 4.184584
16 Welsh_Wales @ 4.317031
17 German_Germany @ 4.390897
18 Irish_Ulster @ 4.391536
19 English_Cornwall @ 4.742260
20 Swede_Sweden @ 4.799861

FTDNA data

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 1.872502
2 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 2.218737
3 Scottish_Highlands @ 2.295453
4 Irish_Connacht @ 2.345531
5 Irish_Munster @ 2.467736
6 Scottish_Fife @ 2.684603
7 Scottish_Grampian @ 3.043369
8 Dutch_Netherlands @ 3.130405
9 Scottish_Borders @ 3.149322
10 French_WestFrance @ 3.159935
11 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 3.190654
12 English_England @ 3.249488
13 Irish_Ulster @ 3.441103
14 Irish_Leinster @ 3.454983
15 English_Cornwall @ 3.495487
16 English_Kent @ 3.900141
17 Swede_Sweden @ 4.759517
18 Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 4.779464
19 Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 4.782019
20 Welsh_Wales @ 4.788595


Ancestry data

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 1.925514
2 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 2.299309
3 Scottish_Highlands @ 2.422894
4 Irish_Connacht @ 2.449880
5 Irish_Munster @ 2.475156
6 Scottish_Fife @ 2.752686
7 Dutch_Netherlands @ 3.101015
8 Scottish_Grampian @ 3.145856
9 Scottish_Borders @ 3.201902
10 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 3.241117
11 English_England @ 3.292531
12 French_WestFrance @ 3.311711
13 Irish_Leinster @ 3.519818
14 Irish_Ulster @ 3.523976
15 English_Cornwall @ 3.574297
16 English_Kent @ 4.057296
17 Swede_Sweden @ 4.642091
18 Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 4.727000
19 Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 4.747412
20 Hungarian_WestUkraine @ 4.82497


My heritage data


Using 1 population approximation:
1 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 1.839090
2 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 2.282156
3 Irish_Munster @ 2.384082
4 Scottish_Highlands @ 2.434303
5 Scottish_Fife @ 2.574088
6 Irish_Connacht @ 2.587581
7 Dutch_Netherlands @ 2.783500
8 Scottish_Grampian @ 3.064915
9 English_England @ 3.167647
10 Scottish_Borders @ 3.181877
11 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 3.301454
12 French_WestFrance @ 3.305112
13 Irish_Leinster @ 3.514889
14 Irish_Ulster @ 3.625502
15 English_Cornwall @ 3.751143
16 English_Kent @ 4.276655
17 German_Lipsian_(Saxony) @ 4.592680
18 Hungarian_WestUkraine @ 4.704488
19 Welsh_Wales @ 4.727805
20 Swede_Sweden @ 4.738499


Living dna data


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Dutch_Netherlands @ 2.926008
2 Swede_Sweden @ 3.342661
3 Hungarian_WestUkraine @ 3.698609
4 German_Lipsian_(Saxony) @ 3.984896
5 Pole_EastPoland @ 4.185076
6 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 4.205637
7 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 4.426425
8 German_Germany @ 4.517450
9 Irish_Munster @ 4.668132
10 Scottish_Fife @ 4.807501
11 Scottish_Highlands @ 4.835119
12 Sorb_Lusatia @ 4.848061
13 Pole_WestPoland @ 4.921724
14 German_NorthGermany @ 5.019519
15 Scottish_Borders @ 5.105500
16 Slovak_Slovakia @ 5.127226
17 Irish_Connacht @ 5.195277
18 Norwegian_Norwegia @ 5.475816
19 Dane_Denmark @ 5.515959
20 Welsh_Wales @ 5.529289

Nibelung
07-18-2017, 12:17 AM
I just want to point out that Waterford and its county there in southern Ireland traditionally belong to Munster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munster), not to Leinster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leinster).

Sikeliot
07-18-2017, 12:52 AM
I just want to point out that Waterford and its county there in southern Ireland traditionally belong to Munster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munster), not to Leinster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leinster).

The map has an error then.

kevinduffy
07-18-2017, 01:07 AM
Connacht closest yes -- must be all that Anglo-Norman ancestry -- but Munster is next. Ulster would be last.

You really think there is a significant amount of Anglo-Norman ancestry in Connacht or are you just being humorous?

Nibelung
07-18-2017, 01:15 AM
There were the De Burghs, who dominated two regions of Connacht with powerful lordships, e.g. Clanricarde.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Burke

Sikeliot
07-18-2017, 01:32 AM
You really think there is a significant amount of Anglo-Norman ancestry in Connacht or are you just being humorous?

A lot of the "Norman" Irish surnames are most common there.

A Norfolk L-M20
07-18-2017, 01:37 AM
My great grandfather in the Royal Field Artillery was stationed in 1906 at Ballinrobe. Could it be that the references aren't exactly perfect with some of the references having some British ancestry?

sktibo
07-18-2017, 01:49 AM
Not British, but mostly British, and the largest of that British mix is English (see signature) - Connacht is my highest. I don't think this says anything about Connacht itself, as I think it is perhaps the most Gaelic or native Irish of all the Irish regions. More likely, what this is telling us is that the region in MDLP k16 labelled as Connacht isn't actually a pure Connacht Irish sample, or a mistake has been made.
I think this indicates a problem with the sampling rather than the region itself. I notice this problem with other GEDmatch calcs: K15 Eurogenes seems to give me Irish as my first population too, and I wonder if this "Connacht" Irish sample is one that is shared or used amongst many of the GEDmatch calculators. With all the other populations available on these calculators, I certainly don't think I should be getting Irish as my highest so consistently.. Especially since I notice that some of our native Irish members seem to get Orcadian or something instead...

Sikeliot
07-18-2017, 02:11 AM
Not British, but mostly British, and the largest of that British mix is English (see signature) - Connacht is my highest. I don't think this says anything about Connacht itself, as I think it is perhaps the most Gaelic or native Irish of all the Irish regions.

I am not sure about this. a PCA plot once showed Ulster Scots as the most British, then Leinster, then Connacht, then Munster, and then the Ulster Irish (Catholics) as furthest away, which to me implies Connacht is not the purest unlike what people think.

Jessie
07-18-2017, 03:08 AM
Using my Ancestry I get Irish_Connacht as my no 2 pop. It must be fairly correct because all my father's ancestry is from Connacht. I think some areas in Ireland such as Ulster and parts of Connacht have a pull to Scotland. I think there was always some interactions with Scots in those areas when you look at the history. Even people like Red Hugh O'Donnell had a Scots mother.

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 28.84
2 NorthEastEuropean 28.49
3 Steppe 24.38
4 Caucasian 17.68


Finished reading population data. 517 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 2.976141
2 Irish_Connacht @ 3.284822
3 Scottish_Highlands @ 3.588576
4 English_Cornwall @ 3.674221
5 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 3.758791
6 Irish_Munster @ 3.866582
7 English_Kent @ 3.894401
8 Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 3.961805
9 Irish_Ulster @ 4.039029
10 Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 4.149234
11 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 4.180904
12 Scottish_Fife @ 4.380357
13 Norwegian_Norwegia @ 4.391616
14 Scottish_Grampian @ 4.408995
15 Dutch_Netherlands @ 4.440382
16 English_England @ 4.522884
17 French_WestFrance @ 4.526099
18 Irish_Leinster @ 4.586125
19 Scottish_Borders @ 4.591952
20 Swede_Sweden @ 4.993605

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Dutch_Netherlands +50% Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.412849


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% English_Kent +25% Pole_EastPoland +25% Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.087891


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 English_Kent + English_Kent + Pole_EastPoland + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.087891
2 English_Kent + English_Kent + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Pole_EastPoland @ 2.091791
3 German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Norwegian_Norwegia + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.117166
4 English_Kent + English_Kent + Norwegian_Norwegia + Pole_EastPoland @ 2.128989
5 Dutch_Netherlands + German_Germany + Icelandic_Iceland + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.136452
6 Dutch_Netherlands + German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.154674
7 German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Norwegian_Norwegia + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.157590
8 German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.161832
9 German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.163971
10 German_Germany + Irish_Connacht + Norwegian_Norwegia + Norwegian_Norwegia @ 2.167188
11 Dutch_Netherlands + German_Germany + Icelandic_Iceland + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.173916
12 English_Kent + English_Kent + Icelandic_Iceland + Pole_EastPoland @ 2.174951
13 English_Kent + English_Kent + Pole_WestPoland + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.176677
14 English_Kent + English_Kent + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Pole_WestPoland @ 2.188810
15 Dutch_Netherlands + English_Kent + English_Kent + Norwegian_Norwegia @ 2.192065
16 English_Kent + English_Kent + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Sorb_Lusatia @ 2.200555
17 German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 2.208061
18 Dutch_Netherlands + German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.209663
19 German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 2.209874
20 Dutch_Netherlands + English_Kent + Irish_Connacht + Norwegian_Norwegia @ 2.210996

My FTDNA results

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 28.78
2 NorthEastEuropean 28.47
3 Steppe 24.76
4 Caucasian 17.25


Finished reading population data. 517 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 3.026841
2 Irish_Connacht @ 3.257971
3 English_Cornwall @ 3.428292
4 Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 3.441684
5 Scottish_Highlands @ 3.632506
6 Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 3.656255
7 English_Kent @ 3.765399
8 Irish_Ulster @ 3.898009
9 Irish_Munster @ 3.898047
10 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 3.996608
11 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 4.037261
12 Norwegian_Norwegia @ 4.063393
13 Scottish_Grampian @ 4.497347
14 Irish_Leinster @ 4.546865
15 Scottish_Fife @ 4.574359
16 English_England @ 4.587379
17 French_WestFrance @ 4.685046
18 Scottish_Borders @ 4.740075
19 Icelandic_Iceland @ 4.765808
20 Dutch_Netherlands @ 4.839308

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Dutch_Netherlands +50% Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.399938


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% English_Kent +25% Pole_EastPoland +25% Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.107442


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 1.929165
2 German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.931759
3 German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Norwegian_Norwegia + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.949504
4 German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Norwegian_Norwegia + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 1.995879
5 German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.996008
6 German_Germany + Icelandic_Iceland + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.034786
7 German_Germany + Icelandic_Iceland + Norwegian_Norwegia + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.039676
8 Dutch_Netherlands + English_Kent + Norwegian_Norwegia + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.045938
9 German_Germany + Icelandic_Iceland + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.046312
10 Dutch_Netherlands + English_Kent + Norwegian_Norwegia + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.051080
11 Dutch_Netherlands + English_Kent + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.074168
12 German_Germany + Icelandic_Iceland + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.076143
13 English_Kent + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Pole_EastPoland @ 2.088080
14 German_Germany + Icelandic_Iceland + Norwegian_Norwegia + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.092962
15 English_Kent + English_Kent + Pole_EastPoland + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.107442
16 German_Germany + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.108890
17 Dutch_Netherlands + English_Kent + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.110984
18 English_Kent + English_Kent + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Pole_EastPoland @ 2.111929
19 English_Kent + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Pole_EastPoland + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.113286
20 Dutch_Netherlands + English_Kent + Icelandic_Iceland + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.119094

sktibo
07-18-2017, 03:09 AM
I am not sure about this. a PCA plot once showed Ulster Scots as the most British, then Leinster, then Connacht, then Munster, and then the Ulster Irish (Catholics) as furthest away, which to me implies Connacht is not the purest unlike what people think.

You're right, Connacht is still dead in the middle of the Irish groups but the non-Scots Ulster is the furthest away. Would like to see what Ireland 1-4 are on the traveller PCA graph.

Solothurn
07-18-2017, 03:18 AM
Mine:

3 Irish_Connacht @ 2.642472
4 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 2.801663
5 Irish_Ulster @ 2.975741
8 Irish_Leinster @ 3.420493
11 Irish_Munster @ 3.712026

Jessie
07-18-2017, 03:21 AM
It would be interesting to see what FionnSneachta gets on this as they are fully from Connacht.

sktibo
07-18-2017, 03:30 AM
It would be interesting to see what FionnSneachta gets on this as they are fully from Connacht.

She's bound to show up sooner or later..
I think I'll PM her just in case

JohnHowellsTyrfro
07-18-2017, 05:29 AM
Not sure if this is the right calculation, British Wales and Borders Ancestry mostly. John
# Population (source) Distance
1 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 1.9
2 Scottish (Fife) 2.38
3 Dutch (Netherlands) 2.48
4 Irish (Munster) 2.8
5 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 2.9
6 Scottish (Highlands) 2.96
7 Scottish (Grampian) 3
8 English (England) 3.04
9 French (WestFrance) 3.14
10 Scottish (Borders) 3.22
11 Irish (Connacht) 3.25
12 German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) 3.59
13 Irish (Leinster) 3.67
14 Welsh (Wales) 3.69
15 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.77
16 Irish (Ulster) 4.08
17 English (Cornwall) 4.19
18 Hungarian (WestUkraine) 4.29
19 German (Germany) 4.53
20 English (Kent) 4.61

sktibo
07-18-2017, 05:44 AM
Just for reference:
Myself (see signature for ethnicity on paper; at least 61.7% British Isles)
1 Irish (Connacht) 2.46
2 Scottish (Highlands) 2.88
3 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 2.99
4 Scottish (Grampian) 3.18
5 French (WestFrance) 3.19
6 Irish (Munster) 3.21
7 Scottish (Fife) 3.29
8 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.3
9 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 3.37
10 English (Kent) 3.57

My Aunt (Approx. 29.6% Scottish, 43.75% English, 6.25% Welsh, 3.9% Native American, 16.4% French Canadian.. total British Isles = approx. 79.6%)
1 Scottish (Grampian) 2.77
2 Scottish (Fife) 2.78
3 Scottish (Highlands) 2.85
4 French (WestFrance) 2.88
5 Irish (Connacht) 2.89
6 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 2.95
7 Irish (Munster) 3.09
8 English (England) 3.12
9 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.22
10 Irish (Leinster) 3.47

My Dad (Same as Aunt, Approx. 29.6% Scottish, 43.75% English, 6.25% Welsh, 3.9% Native American, 16.4% French Canadian.. total British Isles = approx. 79.6%)
1 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 3.42
2 French (WestFrance) 3.46
3 German (Germany) 3.56
4 Scottish (Grampian) 3.62
5 Scottish (Fife) 3.67
6 Irish (Connacht) 3.91
7 Scottish (Highlands) 4.05
8 Welsh (Wales) 4.11
9 Irish (Munster) 4.22
10 French (NorthwestFrance) 4.25

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hinxton2 Anglo Saxon gets:
1 Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 3.507779
2 Irish_Connacht @ 3.565128
3 Irish_Munster @ 3.979237
4 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 4.012155
5 English_Cornwall @ 4.053082
6 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 4.194064

Whereas Hinxton4, Iron Age Briton, who we would expect to be more Connacht like gets:
1 English (Kent) 3.91
2 English (Cornwall) 3.93
3 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 4.35
4 Irish (Connacht) 4.59
5 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 4.7

Meanwhile for Rathlin this Connacht is all the way down at #15
1 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 5.21
2 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 5.21
3 Icelandic (Iceland) 5.33
4 Irish (Ireland) 5.44
5 Norwegian (Norwegia) 5.57
6 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 6.15
7 Irish (Munster) 6.16
8 Irish (Ulster) 6.21
9 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 6.44
10 Swede (Sweden) 6.48
11 English (Cornwall) 6.51
12 Scottish (Highlands) 6.61
13 Irish (Leinster) 6.62
14 English (England) 6.83
15 Irish (Connacht) 6.89

I still think there's a major problem with the Irish references on this thing but we'll have to wait and see what FionnSneachta's results tell us.

deadly77
07-18-2017, 05:52 AM
Not sure that this one works so well for me (mostly Northeast England, then South Yorkshire, followed by smaller amounts of Cumbria, Norfolk, Ireland (Lough), Scotland (Glasgow)) but anyway:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 32.13
2 NorthEastEuropean 27.41
3 Steppe 22.31
4 Caucasian 16.10
5 NearEast 1.21


Finished reading population data. 517 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 English_Kent @ 3.073506
2 French_WestFrance @ 4.381985
3 English_Cornwall @ 4.584329
4 Irish_Connacht @ 4.663189
5 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 4.890625
6 Irish_Ulster @ 4.899208
7 Scottish_Highlands @ 4.917332
8 French_France @ 4.978819
9 Scottish_Borders @ 5.194201
10 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 5.330310
11 Scottish_Grampian @ 5.433101
12 Irish_Leinster @ 5.537097
13 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 5.656127
14 Scottish_Fife @ 5.765131
15 English_England @ 5.853538
16 Irish_Munster @ 6.125715
17 Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 6.148946
18 Welsh_Wales @ 6.726436
19 German_Germany @ 6.839917
20 Norwegian_Norwegia @ 6.860202

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French_France +50% Norwegian_Norwegia @ 2.919358


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Norwegian_Norwegia +25% Serbian_Bosnia-Herzegovina +25% Spanish_Pais_Vasco @ 2.397987


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Basque_Spain + German_Germany + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Pole_EastPoland @ 1.874617
2 Basque_France + German_Germany + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Pole_EastPoland @ 1.893226
3 Basque_France + German_Germany + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Ukrainians_west_WestUkraine @ 1.936659
4 Basque_Spain + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Norwegian_Norwegia + Serbian_Serbia @ 1.937324
5 Basque_Spain + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Norwegian_Norwegia + Serbian_Bosnia-Herzegovina @ 1.946594
6 Basque_Spain + English_Kent + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Serbian_Bosnia-Herzegovina @ 1.957777
7 Basque_France + German_Germany + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Pole_WestPoland @ 1.961520
8 Basque_France + German_Germany + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Slovak_Slovakia @ 1.961563
9 Basque_Spain + German_Germany + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Pole_WestPoland @ 1.966736
10 Basque_Spain + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Serbian_Bosnia-Herzegovina @ 1.971001
11 Basque_Spain + German_Germany + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Slovak_Slovakia @ 1.973627
12 Basque_Spain + Belarusian_Belarus + Belarusian_Belarus + German_Germany @ 1.998530
13 Basque_Spain + German_Germany + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Ukrainians_west_WestUkraine @ 1.999356
14 Basque_Spain + German_Germany + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Ukrainian_Ukraine @ 2.001090
15 Basque_Spain + Icelandic_Iceland + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Serbian_Serbia @ 2.002518
16 Basque_France + German_Germany + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Ukrainian_Ukraine @ 2.012478
17 Basque_France + German_Germany + Hungarian_Hungary + Lithuanian_Lithuania @ 2.013041
18 Basque_France + German_Germany + Lithuanian_Lithuania + Sorb_Lusatia @ 2.019767
19 Basque_Spain + Belarusian_Belarus + Norwegian_Norwegia + Serbian_Bosnia-Herzegovina @ 2.021568
20 Basque_Spain + German_Germany + Hungarian_Hungary + Lithuanian_Lithuania @ 2.027766

Done.

timberwolf
07-18-2017, 05:54 AM
100 % British. The only Irish I know of in my family tree is from Ulster.

Ancestry
1 English (Kent) 2.5
2 Irish (Connacht) 2.85
3 French (WestFrance) 3.07
4 English (Cornwall) 3.16
5 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 3.33
6 Scottish (Highlands) 3.38
7 Scottish (Grampian) 3.47
8 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 3.48
9 Irish (Ulster) 3.69
10 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.71

23andme
1 English (Kent) 3.16
2 Irish (Connacht) 3.49
3 French (WestFrance) 3.62
4 English (Cornwall) 3.64
5 Scottish (Grampian) 3.8
6 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.94
7 French (France) 4.03
8 Irish (Leinster) 4.08
9 Scottish (Highlands) 4.1
10 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 4.13

LDNA
1 French (WestFrance) 2.82
2 French (France) 3.25
3 English (Kent) 3.37
4 Scottish (Grampian) 3.39
5 Irish (Connacht) 3.64
6 English (England) 3.69
7 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 3.7
8 Irish (Leinster) 3.76
9 German (Germany) 3.78
10 Scottish (Highlands) 3.92

sktibo
07-18-2017, 06:04 AM
I don't personally consider AncestryDNA to be an incredibly good or reliable source, but just to throw their little article into the mix, here's what they said about Irish DNA and the four provinces of Ireland:

"Not surprisingly, the highest average Irish ethnicity estimates are found in Ireland. However, within Ireland we are seeing some provincial differences. Historically inward migration to Ireland has come from the south and east through Leinster and Munster. The genetics appears to agree with the history here. The highest estimates found anywhere in the UK & Ireland are found in Connaught with 76.7%, with Munster and Leinster on 71.4% and 71.8%

The ethnicity estimate for Ulster is lower than the other provinces around 51.9%. This also is what you might expect but attributing the different estimate in Ulster to the 17th century plantation is perhaps too simplistic. The connections between Ulster and Scotland are deep going back many centuries and continuing to the present day."
[ https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2015/03/16/what-does-our-dna-tell-us-about-being-irish/ ]

They seem to think Connacht is the most Irish region, of course it may not be the case, but I thought it was interesting.

Jessie
07-18-2017, 07:24 AM
I don't personally consider AncestryDNA to be an incredibly good or reliable source, but just to throw their little article into the mix, here's what they said about Irish DNA and the four provinces of Ireland:

"Not surprisingly, the highest average Irish ethnicity estimates are found in Ireland. However, within Ireland we are seeing some provincial differences. Historically inward migration to Ireland has come from the south and east through Leinster and Munster. The genetics appears to agree with the history here. The highest estimates found anywhere in the UK & Ireland are found in Connaught with 76.7%, with Munster and Leinster on 71.4% and 71.8%

The ethnicity estimate for Ulster is lower than the other provinces around 51.9%. This also is what you might expect but attributing the different estimate in Ulster to the 17th century plantation is perhaps too simplistic. The connections between Ulster and Scotland are deep going back many centuries and continuing to the present day."
[ https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2015/03/16/what-does-our-dna-tell-us-about-being-irish/ ]

They seem to think Connacht is the most Irish region, of course it may not be the case, but I thought it was interesting.


I'm not sure whether Gedmatch calculators are reliable for such fine tuning of areas anyway. Using my LivingDNA upload I get Dutch_Netherlands as my No 1 population. Even looking at other people's results they don't appear to get the correct No 1 pop.

It will be more informative when the Irish DNA Atlas release their results.

avalon
07-18-2017, 08:02 AM
I'm not sure whether Gedmatch calculators are reliable for such fine tuning of areas anyway. Using my LivingDNA upload I get Dutch_Netherlands as my No 1 population. Even looking at other people's results they don't appear to get the correct No 1 pop.

It will be more informative when the Irish DNA Atlas release their results.

I was going to say something similar. I think it's good that we have these calculators, more data is always good and one of these days I will probably run my own data through them.

I'm always skeptical about the quality of reference populations in these calculators so I would always place more faith in things like POBI and Irish DNA Atlas as these are proper scientific studies with better reference populations, eg IDA requires 8 local great grandparents.

The basic problem is that modern British and Irish populations generally very admixed and its only through things like IDA and careful sampling that you can cut through that, imo.

FionnSneachta
07-18-2017, 08:51 AM
She's bound to show up sooner or later..
I think I'll PM her just in case

Using my Ancestry DNA data, I get Connacht as my number 4 population. Orkney and Cornwall just keep showing up :heh: I was reading Jessie's post about the Connacht pull to Scotland so you could be on to something there based on my results. I got the four provinces of Ireland in my top 11. The results are interesting.

MDLP K16 2xOracle and OracleX4

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 28.01
2 NorthEastEuropean 27.20
3 Steppe 26.27
4 Caucasian 16.62
5 Indian 1.33


Finished reading population data. 517 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.297103
2 Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.865710
3 English_Cornwall @ 3.040900
4 Irish_Connacht @ 3.416888
5 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 3.427475
6 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 3.542126
7 Irish_Munster @ 3.750789
8 Irish_Ulster @ 3.769063
9 Scottish_Highlands @ 3.872500
10 English_Kent @ 4.171660
11 Irish_Leinster @ 4.344690
12 English_England @ 4.460158
13 Scottish_Grampian @ 4.515251
14 Norwegian_Norwegia @ 4.569735
15 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 4.630131
16 Scottish_Fife @ 4.906243
17 Icelandic_Iceland @ 4.947807
18 French_WestFrance @ 5.234683
19 Scottish_Borders @ 5.381375
20 Dutch_Netherlands @ 5.848310

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% English_Cornwall +50% Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.010336


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Scottish_Argyll_bute +25% Scottish_Argyll_bute +25% Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 1.899516


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 English_England + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.862559
2 Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 1.899516
3 Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Highlands @ 1.900916
4 Irish_Munster + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.914708
5 Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Fife @ 1.919543
6 English_England + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.926834
7 English_Cornwall + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 1.927822
8 Irish_Cork_Kerry + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.937313
9 Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Grampian @ 1.941097
10 Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 1.942162
11 Irish_Connacht + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.945200
12 English_Cornwall + Irish_Connacht + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.960356
13 English_Cornwall + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.961445
14 English_Cornwall + Irish_Munster + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.966314
15 French_WestFrance + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.968692
16 English_Cornwall + Irish_Cork_Kerry + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.975994
17 English_Kent + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.982895
18 English_Kent + Irish_Munster + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 1.988632
19 Irish_Cork_Kerry + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 1.991959
20 English_Cornwall + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Scottish_Highlands @ 1.998242

FionnSneachta
07-18-2017, 09:45 AM
A lot of the "Norman" Irish surnames are most common there.

Out of about 30 surnames that are in my tree, there are 4 that I know to be Anglo-Norman. They're Fleming, Dillon, Helbert and Rodgers. I would think that Leinster and Ulster would have the most influence from Great Britain due to proximity. Dublin's a major city so there would have been a much greater mix over the years anyway. It's just the fact that Connacht is so isolated compared to Munster which is beside Continental Europe would make me think that Connacht would have less of a mixture from other populations but I could be wrong of course.

This map that I've posted before actually has most of Munster being controlled Anglo-Normans. Of course Connacht is a much smaller region so despite the Burke's not owning as much land as the Fitzgeralds or Butlers, it's still a large chunk of Connacht. I would think that it's between Munster and Connacht though as the most 'Irish' region. As someone from Connacht, Connacht only came in at number four for me so as others have said I'm not sure how accurate it is.

17600

Dubhthach
07-18-2017, 09:52 AM
MDLP K16 2xOracle and OracleX4

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 27.08
2 Steppe 26.26
3 NorthEastEuropean 24.34
4 Caucasian 18.58
5 Indian 3.62


Finished reading population data. 517 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 3.808683
2 Irish_Munster @ 4.005964
3 English_England @ 4.109736
4 Irish_Leinster @ 4.474929
5 Scottish_Grampian @ 4.521443
6 Scottish_Highlands @ 4.672654
7 Irish_Connacht @ 4.778704
8 Scottish_Fife @ 4.796738
9 Irish_Ulster @ 4.951564
10 English_Cornwall @ 5.009216
11 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 5.016915
12 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 5.251836
13 Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 5.644870
14 French_WestFrance @ 5.677518
15 Scottish_Borders @ 5.866108
16 English_Kent @ 6.278798
17 Dutch_Netherlands @ 6.324450
18 Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 6.462528
19 Irish_Ireland @ 7.190598
20 Hungarian_WestUkraine @ 7.586314

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish_Cork_Kerry +50% Irish_Munster @ 3.789009

--
to put that in perspective my mother is from North Clare, and one of my great-grandmothers (on my father's side) was form Cork. I'm from Galway myself though :)

FionnSneachta
07-18-2017, 09:58 AM
MDLP K16 2xOracle and OracleX4

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 27.08
2 Steppe 26.26
3 NorthEastEuropean 24.34
4 Caucasian 18.58
5 Indian 3.62


Finished reading population data. 517 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 3.808683
2 Irish_Munster @ 4.005964
3 English_England @ 4.109736
4 Irish_Leinster @ 4.474929
5 Scottish_Grampian @ 4.521443
6 Scottish_Highlands @ 4.672654
7 Irish_Connacht @ 4.778704
8 Scottish_Fife @ 4.796738
9 Irish_Ulster @ 4.951564
10 English_Cornwall @ 5.009216
11 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 5.016915
12 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 5.251836
13 Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 5.644870
14 French_WestFrance @ 5.677518
15 Scottish_Borders @ 5.866108
16 English_Kent @ 6.278798
17 Dutch_Netherlands @ 6.324450
18 Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 6.462528
19 Irish_Ireland @ 7.190598
20 Hungarian_WestUkraine @ 7.586314

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish_Cork_Kerry +50% Irish_Munster @ 3.789009

--
to put that in perspective my mother is from North Clare, and one of my great-grandmothers (on my father's side) was form Cork. I'm from Galway myself though :)

Wow your Cork and Kerry result is really accurate. Was your father from Galway or where? Your Connacht should be higher if that's the case but your mother's side was accurately represented.

Dubhthach
07-18-2017, 10:01 AM
While there was major Norman lordships in Connacht it's worth pointing out that the level of settlement was considerably lower than what happened in Leinster and with the onset of the 'Gaelic reconquista' of late 14th century onwards there was huge amount of abandondement of Manor settlements etc. In case of Connacht the Burkes were fractured by the 'Burke Civil war' of the mid/late 14th century and basically went completely native. Here's a good account of the Mayo Burkes taken from Boards.ie



Quote Originally Posted by Bannasidhe View Post
Don't assume an Irish name means Catholic - many Irish 'converted' when they submitted- the best example being the O'Briens earls of Thomond who were Anglican and one can't get more Irish then the descendants of Boru!

Race is often brought into this when, in fact, the concept of 'race' as we know it was only beginning to develop and didn't really start to be a major issue until much later. The main issues of contention then were religion and culture. In Ireland under the Tudors Culture was the main thing with far more emphasis being placed on the annihilation of Gaelic culture then on religious conversion.

It might be worth discussing the Gaelic Irish conception of 'race' here. To them there were two types of people - An Gael (the 'Irish') and An Gáll (everyone else!). The Scots confused the issue a bit as they were also 'Gaelic' but when living in Ireland were usually referred to as Gálloglaigh (gallowglass - foreign warrior).
When the Gaelic Irish referred to their 'race' they meant their specific Clan and their 'country' was their clan lands. Although they may collectively occasionally refer to themselves as 'Irish' - this was more akin to us calling ourselves 'European' than an assumption of a national identity.

A person's 'race' was defined by their surname - descent was patrilinier [i.e through the male line].

To illustrate by way of example:
Gráinne Ní Mháille (Lit - Gráinne daughter of [distant male ancestor] Máille) was An Gael. Her 'country' was Umhall Uí Máille - now Murrisk in Mayo.
Her first husband was Domhnaill Na Chogaidh Ua Flaithbhertaigh (Domhnaill son of [distant male ancestor] Flaithbhertaigh of Iar Chonnacht. Also An Gael.

They had a daughter Máireadh Ni Fhlaithbhertaigh - she was An Gael. She married Risteard Mac Deamon an Chorrán á Búrc of Erris[ descendent of William Concur de Burgh via Eamonn Albanach á Búrc and Sabh Ní Mháille who founded the Mayo Bourkes) - An Gáll as his patrilinier line of descent was not Gaelic. Culturally he was completely Gaelic and fought against Anglicisation his entire life. Máireadh and Mac Deamon had a son - Daithi á Búrc = An Gáll.

Gráinne and Domhnaill's son Muirtaigh Na Moar Ua Flaithbhertaigh - An Gael - married Cáitriona á Búrc -[ also descended from William Concur de Burgh but of the Galway branch) An Gáll. Their children were all 'An Gael'.

When Domhnaill died, Gráinne returned to Umhall Uí Máille - i.e. her 'race' and her 'country' as her husband's death had ended the marriage alliance and as a 'foreigner' she had no business being in Iar Chonnacht. Her 3 children from the marriage stayed as they were of the 'race' of Flaithbhertaigh.

Gráinne later married Risteard In Iarainn á Búrc of Burrishoole (Mayo Bourkes]- (Risteard In Iarainn was the nephew of Gráinne's first husband via the marriage of Daithi á Búrc to Fionnghula Ní Fhlaithbhertaigh) he was An Gáll. They had one son - Tibboid na Long á Búrc - Yup, he was An Gáll. He married Meabh Ni Chonchobhair Sligigh - guess what she was...yes..An Gael! but their children bore the surname á Búrc making them all An Gáll.

The Uí Chonchobhair Sligigh was loyal to the crown of England but Sliocht Ullig - one of the 4 main septs of the Mayo Bourkes (collectively known as the Mac Uilliam Íochtair) [Sliocht Ullig's 'country' was Burrishoole, Erris and Achill] of whom Gáinne's second husband, youngest son and son-in-law were all members (and at some point all sept leaders and holders of the banned title of Mac Uilliam Íochtair) engaged in a 30 year war to try and prevent Anglicisation. Richard Bingham particularly targeted them for harsh reprisals - including the hanging of 3 children under 5 in 1586.
So the main opposition to the Tudors in North Connacht was conducted by people who called themselves 'English' but refused to give up Gaelic Culture while among those aiding the Crown were the (Anglican) O'Briens of Thomond - descendants of Ború and Uí Chonchobhair Sligigh - descendent of the O'Connor kings of Connacht and (occasional) high kings of Ireland. All of them 'Irish' to the core.

When we say Irish fought English - who exactly were the 'Irish' and who were the 'English'? Perhaps this blurring of the racial boundaries is why the powerful, rebellious and utterly committed to Gaelic culture Mac Uilliam Íochtair á Búrcs of Mayo are nearly invisible in Irish historiography - even though they fought longer and harder than anyone else against the Tudors and were the reason Connacht remained the most 'Irish' of the provinces...but they called themselves 'English'....

It's a funny old world when ya have a poke at it!

Dubhthach
07-18-2017, 10:07 AM
Wow your Cork and Kerry result is really accurate. Was your father from Galway or where? Your Connacht should be higher if that's the case but your mother's side was accurately represented.

Well I'm only 1/8th Langer, so it's interesting. My father is from Athlone however as his father is from Belfast he gets 'Ulster Irish' as his community in AncestryDNA:

Dad:
http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/dad.png

Genetic Communities:
Ulster Irish: Confidence = 60%
Irish in Ulster East: Confidence = 20%
Munster Irish: Confidence = 20%

My Mother's genetic communities in comparison are:
Genetic Communities:
Irish in Southern Ireland: Confidence = 95%
Munster Irish: Confidence = 95%
Munster Irish: Confidence = 95%
Connacht Irish: Confidence = 20%
Irish in North Connacht: Confidence = 20%
Irish in Galway: Confidence = 20%

http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/mum.png

My 8 great-grandparents break down as:

Belfast
Birkenhead -- Liverpool Irish
East Galway/South Roscommon
Cork
South Galway/North-Clare
Clare
Clare
Clare

Sikeliot
07-18-2017, 10:59 AM
Using my Ancestry DNA data, I get Connacht as my number 6 population. Orkney and Cornwall just keep showing up :heh: I was reading Jessie's post about the Connacht pull to Scotland so you could be on to something there based on my results. I got the four provinces of Ireland in my top 11. The results are interesting.

MDLP K16 2xOracle and OracleX4

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 28.01
2 NorthEastEuropean 27.20
3 Steppe 26.27
4 Caucasian 16.62
5 Indian 1.33


Finished reading population data. 517 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.297103
2 Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.865710
3 English_Cornwall @ 3.040900
4 Irish_Connacht @ 3.416888
5 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 3.427475
6 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 3.542126
7 Irish_Munster @ 3.750789
8 Irish_Ulster @ 3.769063
9 Scottish_Highlands @ 3.872500
10 English_Kent @ 4.171660
11 Irish_Leinster @ 4.344690
12 English_England @ 4.460158
13 Scottish_Grampian @ 4.515251
14 Norwegian_Norwegia @ 4.569735
15 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 4.630131
16 Scottish_Fife @ 4.906243
17 Icelandic_Iceland @ 4.947807
18 French_WestFrance @ 5.234683
19 Scottish_Borders @ 5.381375
20 Dutch_Netherlands @ 5.848310


It's #4 for you, not 6. ;)

With this said, the closeness to Cornwall may be something ancient.

Sikeliot
07-18-2017, 11:01 AM
I would think that it's between Munster and Connacht though as the most 'Irish' region. As someone from Connacht, Connacht only came in at number four for me so as others have said I'm not sure how accurate it is.

17600


At one point, Ulster had the largest population of Irish Gaelic speakers, and was seen as the most Irish region, which is why that one plot suggested that the Catholic Irish from Ulster are the purest representatives of the pre-British population of Ireland. They were much further removed from the British cluster than Connacht was, but Munster was the second furthest removed.

Dubhthach
07-18-2017, 11:52 AM
At one point, Ulster had the largest population of Irish Gaelic speakers, and was seen as the most Irish region, which is why that one plot suggested that the Catholic Irish from Ulster are the purest representatives of the pre-British population of Ireland. They were much further removed from the British cluster than Connacht was, but Munster was the second furthest removed.

Bit more complicated than that, what you have to remember is that in both Connacht, Munster and also in Leinster that the Cambro-Normans were effectively Irish speakers by the time of rise of Tudors. Even families within the 'Pale' (eg. to be 'beyond the pale' literally means to be Irish ;) ) were speaking Irish during the early 16th century. In late 18th century of course the linguistic situation looked like this:

http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/Gaeilge/Gaeilge-late-18th-small.png

The effect of the Plantation of Ulster is clearly viewable, especially if you look at say Donegal, where lowest precentage of Irish speakers in late 18th century was found in the Laggan district which obviously had large scale Scots planter settlement (so much so that the word 'albanach' eg. 'scot' means 'Presbytrian' in colloquial Ulster Irish)
http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/Gaeilge/Donegal-1771-small.jpg



What's important in case of our modern concept of Ulster (which isn't the same as the 12th/13th century concept) is that the Cambro-Norman colony was restricted purely to Antrim/Down and with some settlement in North Donegal (Inishowen), during the course of the 14th century this colony was effectively destroyed as a direct result of the Burke Civil war which was sparked by the killing of William Donn de Burgh, 3rd Earl of Ulster in 1333 at Greencastle (tip of Inishowen on shores of Lough Foyle). He was killed by his own knights due to fact that he had starved his cousin Sir Walter Liath de Burgh starved to death in 1332.

https://stairnaheireann.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/northburgh-castle-greencastle-43.jpg

The end result of this was expulsion of Normans from Northern Donegal, and basically the gradual conquest of the 'Earldom of Ulster' by the expansionary 'Clann Aodha Buidhe' O'Neill's (Clandeboy eg. children of Aodh Buidhe)

What we have to remember is that in 12th century before John deCourcy conquest of 'Ulster' that 'Ulster' basically meant the kingdom of the Ulaidh eg. Antrim/Down and wasn't used to refer to rest of area which was under control of the Northern Uí Néill.

Anyways the Burkes are really good example of how 'admixed' the Cambro-Norman's were by an early stage, both Walter and William could speak Irish reflected in fact that they both bear Irish language 'nicknames', eg. Liath = Grey, Donn = Brown

The progenitor of the family in Ireland is William de Burgh (d. 1205 -- who arrived in Ireland circa 1185), he married a daughter of Domnall Mór Ua Briain (King of Thomond), as a result straight from getting off the boat, the next generation of Burkes (including William Mór de Burgh) was already 50% admixed native Irish.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
07-18-2017, 12:39 PM
While there was major Norman lordships in Connacht it's worth pointing out that the level of settlement was considerably lower than what happened in Leinster and with the onset of the 'Gaelic reconquista' of late 14th century onwards there was huge amount of abandondement of Manor settlements etc. In case of Connacht the Burkes were fractured by the 'Burke Civil war' of the mid/late 14th century and basically went completely native. Here's a good account of the Mayo Burkes taken from Boards.ie

I see this with some Welsh people as well, sort of presenting Welsh V English from the year dot. Of course it was a lot more complicated than that, the idea of a unified "Wales" wasn't a reality for most of the time. Most of the big noises Lords, Princes etc. were acting in their own personal interests making alliances with all sorts of "foreigners" if it would benefit them. Even the "locals" would be quite happy to fight each other. I think you could probably say that's largely how the Romans took Britain and later conquests as well. John

sktibo
07-18-2017, 03:32 PM
Fourth place for FionnSneachta and first place for myself indicates a problem with the sample I think. My position is unchanged

A Norfolk L-M20
07-18-2017, 04:27 PM
Fourth place for FionnSneachta and first place for myself indicates a problem with the sample I think. My position is unchanged

Someone like my great grandfather could well have left some DNA picked up in a reference sample, in quite recent times. You can never have enough samples.

sktibo
07-18-2017, 04:35 PM
Someone like my great grandfather could well have left some DNA picked up in a reference sample, in quite recent times. You can never have enough samples.

Either that or the people that collected this "Connacht" sample weren't being very careful and just took someone's word on it. If this sample is used throughout the other GEDmatch calculators then that would explain why I frequently get "Irish" as my number 1 closest population - which, and I feel I can't say this enough, should never be the case with myself, as much as it would make me happy to see that being a complete Gaelophile.

Amerijoe
07-18-2017, 07:21 PM
I've been averaging 90%+ British Isles across all testing platforms. Ancestrydna has me at 95% confidence for Scots and 20% for Ulster Irish. Maternal side 19 Scot grandparents, 8 Irish, 1 English. Paternal side, you pick! :)

MDLP K16 2xOracle and OracleX4

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 28.88
2 NorthEastEuropean 25.73
3 Steppe 24.75
4 Caucasian 18.84
5 Amerindian 1.21

Using 1 population approximation
1 Irish_Connacht @ 2.601034
2 Scottish_Highlands @ 3.019716
3 Irish_Munster @ 3.174128
4 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 3.230758
5 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 3.304937
6 Scottish_Grampian @ 3.364645
7 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 3.434302
8 Scottish_Fife @ 3.497245
9 English_England @ 3.721146
10 French_WestFrance @ 3.744915
11 English_Cornwall @ 3.796088
12 Irish_Ulster @ 3.967271
13 Irish_Leinster @ 3.970522
14 English_Kent @ 4.025550
15 Scottish_Borders @ 4.495717
16 Dutch_Netherlands @ 4.520397
17 Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 5.033804
18 Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 5.385841
19 Welsh_Wales @ 6.030963
20 French_France @ 6.229341

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% German_Germany +50% Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.353354

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% German_Germany +25% Scottish_Argyll_bute +25% Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.353354

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 German_Germany + Irish_Connacht + Irish_Connacht + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.298944

Eurogenes K15 one pop.

1. Orcadian
2. West Scottish
3. Southeast English
4. Irish

Irish demoted to 4th place? Sktibo had mentioned his Eurogenes K15 Irish as #1 and asked about usage of Connacht sample among the Gedmatch calculators. The Orcadian on this calculator is a bit of a surprise since I only get 1.2% at Livingdna and 4.6% Scandinavian. Could the Orcadian be more aligned with the Picts than Orkney. Some of my family surnames can be traced back to Dal Riada which according to history was at one time conquered and ruled by the Picts.

Maternal Aunt, Ancestrydna 60% confidence level Scots. 60% confidence level Ulster Irish.

MDLP K16 2xOracle and OracleX4

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 28.88
2 NorthEastEuropean 25.73
3 Steppe 24.75
4 Caucasian 18.84
5 Amerindian 1.21

Using 1 population approximation
1 Irish_Connacht @ 2.601034
2 Scottish_Highlands @ 3.019716
3 Irish_Munster @ 3.174128
4 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 3.230758
5 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 3.304937
6 Scottish_Grampian @ 3.364645
7 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 3.434302
8 Scottish_Fife @ 3.497245
9 English_England @ 3.721146
10 French_WestFrance @ 3.744915
11 English_Cornwall @ 3.796088
12 Irish_Ulster @ 3.967271
13 Irish_Leinster @ 3.970522
14 English_Kent @ 4.025550
15 Scottish_Borders @ 4.495717
16 Dutch_Netherlands @ 4.520397
17 Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 5.033804
18 Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 5.385841
19 Welsh_Wales @ 6.030963
20 French_France @ 6.229341

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% German_Germany +50% Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.353354

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% German_Germany +25% Scottish_Argyll_bute +25% Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.353354

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 German_Germany + Irish_Connacht + Irish_Connacht + Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 2.298944

Eurogenes K15 one pop.

1. Orcadian
2. West Scottish
3. Southeast English
4. Irish

Irish demoted to 4th place? Sktibo had mentioned his Eurogenes K15 Irish as #1 and asked about usage of Connacht sample among the Gedmatch calculators. The Orcadian on this calculator is a bit of a surprise since I only get 1.2% at Livingdna and 4.6% Scandinavian. Could the Orcadian be more aligned with the Picts than Orkney. Some of my family surnames can be traced back to Dal Riada which was conquered and ruled by the Picts.

Maternal Aunt, Ancestrydna 60% confidence level Scots. 60% confidence level Ulster Irish.

MDLP K16 Modern 4-Ancestors Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 30.41
2 NorthEastEuropean 28.24
3 Steppe 24.07
4 Caucasian 16.82

Using 1 population approximation:
1 English_Kent @ 2.841547
2 Irish_Connacht @ 3.459787
3 English_Cornwall @ 3.564336
4 Shetlandic_Shetland_Islands @ 3.633209
5 Scottish_Highlands @ 3.991748
6 Irish_Ulster @ 4.095047
7 Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 4.236388
8 French_WestFrance @ 4.378263
9 Scottish_Dumfries_Galloway @ 4.398369
10 Irish_Cork_Kerry @ 4.571314
11 Scottish_Argyll_bute @ 4.759604
12 Irish_Munster @ 4.760957
13 Scottish_Grampian @ 4.772678
14 Scottish_Borders @ 4.860666
15 Irish_Leinster @ 4.868783
16 Norwegian_Norwegia @ 4.964931
17 Scottish_Fife @ 5.019192
18 English_England @ 5.099036
19 Icelandic_Iceland @ 5.638475
20 Dutch_Netherlands @ 5.745730

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French_France +50% Norwegian_Norwegia @ 2.495862

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% English_Kent +25% English_Kent +25% Norwegian_Norwegia @ 2.355523

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 English_Kent + German_Germany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands @ 2.200973

MDLP K15

1. Irish
2. West Scottish
3. Southeast English
4. Orcadian

MyHeritage results using 23andMe data gives me 2.8% Scandinavian and my aunt 18.9%. Orcadian and Orkney show up in various admix with a relatively low Scandinavian percentage when one would assume the opposite. Was one of my parents stingy with their Scandinavian or are other aspects at work? All thoughts and insights are welcome. :noidea

sktibo
07-18-2017, 07:27 PM
@Amerijoe,

So you got Irish Connacht as #1 and Scottish highlands as #2, same as myself. Very interesting, considering how different our ethnic backgrounds are!

Amerijoe
07-18-2017, 07:44 PM
@Amerijoe,

So you got Irish Connacht as #1 and Scottish highlands as #2, same as myself. Very interesting, considering how different our ethnic backgrounds are!

According to the above not that different. Definitely are in need of more Scot and Irish samples.

sktibo
07-18-2017, 08:18 PM
According to the above not that different. Definitely are in need of more Scot and Irish samples.

I think our scores on other calculators are pretty different, bad references populations on this mdlp k16 is what I think.

Amerijoe
07-18-2017, 08:43 PM
I think our scores on other calculators are pretty different, bad references populations on this mdlp k16 is what I think.

This is a problem with many of the testing platforms. It's also why the admixtures are so varied. Someday, hopefully soon will we have the ultimate population references, but for now, it does keep the conversation flowing.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
07-19-2017, 06:41 AM
This is a problem with many of the testing platforms. It's also why the admixtures are so varied. Someday, hopefully soon will we have the ultimate population references, but for now, it does keep the conversation flowing.

I suppose it would be sensible but perhaps not commercially such a good idea to actually do something to promote more testing in certain areas, like maybe offering discounted rates. ;) John

thewarrider7
07-23-2017, 06:39 PM
How do you get these results put into top 16 locations?

would be cool to do it with mine

kind regards