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MitchellSince1893
07-18-2017, 12:35 AM
EDIT: I'm going to redo the maps with the additional data Robert Casey has generously provided.

MitchellSince1893
07-18-2017, 12:36 AM
EDIT: I'm going to redo the maps with the additional data Robert Casey has generously provided.

MitchellSince1893
07-18-2017, 12:37 AM
EDIT: I'm going to redo the maps with the additional data Robert Casey has generously provided.

MitchellSince1893
07-18-2017, 12:45 AM
EDIT: I'm going to redo the maps with the additional data Robert Casey has generously provided. Will post new Raw #s

RobertCasey
07-18-2017, 03:09 AM
Mitchell,

Here is a pretty up to date pull of all of Haplogroup R at 67 markers which adds R1a and includes 53,000 testers where 34,000 have geographic origins (caution, this file is 26MB and you need to allow some time for the download to complete):

http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/Temp/HG_R_Master_20170630A.xlsx


Please note that I only upload this data once when the tester upgrades to 67 markers and the data is extracted from the first project to find 67 markers. Therefore, many of the geographic fields could have been updated and the terminal YSNP field could be quite dated as well. You would also have to filter out some of the new world listings of Canada, Latin America, Australia, etc. However, this pull is across 5,000 projects and was updated last month.

R.Rocca
07-18-2017, 12:07 PM
...

R1b Basal (M269-) 305 samples: 20.3%

...



20.3% seems extremely too high for M269-. Are you sure you didn't mean everything P312- U106-?

MitchellSince1893
07-18-2017, 12:40 PM
20.3% seems extremely too high for M269-. Are you sure you didn't mean everything P312- U106-?

Yes, I fixed it. Thanks

MitchellSince1893
07-29-2017, 06:54 PM
Ok, 10 days later I finally got through the non UK & non Irish European samples, removing duplicates and multiple samples with same/similar surnames in same SNP branch, with exceptions being made for common surnames. I ended up with 2764 samples. I will eventually go through the UK and Irish samples but that's a huge undertaking.

I wanted to have at least 50 samples per region (country or group of countries). I wasn't able to always do this but every region does have at least 45 samples as shown below.

This map shows how I'm grouped the samples with the # of samples in each country/region
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/66/a4/f4/66a4f44e44ef234702f23afe1de8a971.png
Multi country regions include:
-Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania (Baltics) & Belarus
-Romania, Moldova, Ukraine
-Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan (Caucasus)
-Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Albania, Greece, Bulgaria (Balkans)
-Austria, Czech Republic, Slovenia
-Hungary, Slovakia
-Turkey, Cyprus
-Belgium, Luxembourg
-Spain, Andorra

MitchellSince1893
07-30-2017, 03:15 AM
Here are the FTDNA R1b Percentages for European Countries/Regions as defined in the map above.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ac/3c/fe/ac3cfe1135c8860dff51139055efe522.png

Higher definition image here https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ac/3c/fe/ac3cfe1135c8860dff51139055efe522.png

David Mc
07-30-2017, 03:21 AM
Interesting that Norwegian R1b has the highest percentage of L21 (26%)-- higher even than France which has 25%.

Gravetto-Danubian
07-30-2017, 03:26 AM
Wow U106 is so prolific (relatively) in northern, Central & eastern Europe.
I hope we get some more clues about it from aDNA

.....

France looks very "balanced" for P312.
Could be where it trifurcated

kevinduffy
07-30-2017, 04:14 AM
Interesting that Norwegian R1b has the highest percentage of L21 (26%)-- higher even than France which has 25%.

I guess the Vikings took a lot of slaves from Britain and Ireland.

MitchellSince1893
07-30-2017, 04:27 AM
I guess the Vikings took a lot of slaves from Britain and Ireland.

I'm not that familiar with L21 subclades. Is there any difference in predominance of L21 subclades found in the British Isles vs Scandinavia?

I ask because if there is it may indicate certain L21 subclades might have entered Scandinavia well before the Vikings.

On the flip side, I do know there was a quite a few Scots that settled in Scandinavia during the post Viking era

Scottish emigration to the Scandinavian lands of Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Finland was largely, though not completely, by soldiers of fortune seeking employment generally under Gustavus Adolphus but also under the Danish kings. Those who survived the campaigns of the Thirty Years War were often granted land and encouraged to settle. As well as soldiers, the Scandinavian kings also recruited seafarers. Merchants and craftsmen, mainly from burghs in eastern Scotland and the Northern Isles, moved to Scandinavia attracted by economic opportunities there.http://flemish.wp.st-andrews.ac.uk/2015/11/13/migration-from-scotland-before-1700/

JohnHowellsTyrfro
07-30-2017, 06:03 AM
Also very interesting that U106 is higher in the Netherlands Denmark Sweden and Finland than Germany.
From my own Z326 matches I was surprised to get quite a few people who are apparently Finnish plus quite a few Scandinavians. Is it OK if I share this with the U106 project group please? John

MitchellSince1893
07-30-2017, 06:22 AM
Is it OK if I share this with the U106 project group please? John

Ok with me.

Just a reminder these numbers are percentages of R1b only (doesn't include non R1b haplogroups); and that there is an FTDNA testing bias involved. That is, it's mostly made up of immigrants to the US and Canada.

So if immigrants to the US from country X were disproportionately from a particular region(s) of that country, then it might skew the numbers.

I compared the Germany FTDNA numbers to the Busby Germany numbers and they were all within 6.3 percentage points of each other.

To compare it to Busby's Germany numbers we need to combine the FTDNA DF27 with "P312 other" to equal Busby's "P312xL21,U152":
U106: 294 samples (43.0% of R1b)
U152: 139 samples (20.4% of R1b)
DF27 & P312 Other: 129 samples (18.9% of R1b)
L21: 75 samples (11.0% of R1b)
R1b Other: 46 samples (6.7% of R1b)


209 of Busby's 423 samples in Germany were R1b. This works out to:
U106: 95 samples (45.5% of R1b)
U152: 51 samples (24.4% of R1b)
DF27 & P312 Other: 29 samples (13.9% of R1b)
L21: 10 samples (4.8% of R1b)
R1b Other: 24 samples (11.5% of R1b)


The Busby and FTDNA numbers above are all within 6.3 percentage points of each other, but what's interesting is Busby's largest sampled haplogroup (U106) is closest to the FTDNA U106 numbers and Busby's smallest sampled haplogroup (L21) is furthest from the FTDNA L21 #s.

Busby's 95 U106 German samples is only 2.5 % pts different compared to the 294 U106 FTDNA samples in Germany.

While Busby's 10 L21 samples in Germany has the largest difference (6.2 pts) compared to the 75 L21 FTDNA samples in Germany
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11016-Subclades-of-P312-amp-U106&p=265197#post265197

But Germany is by far the largest sample group so it's more likely to be close to the real numbers. Countries/Groups of countries with small sample sizes are more apt to be off. Ideally you would want ~400 or more truly random samples per country/region to have good confidence in them.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
07-30-2017, 06:25 AM
I'm not that familiar with L21 subclades. Is there any difference in predominance of L21 subclades found in the British Isles vs Scandinavia?

I ask because if there is it may indicate certain L21 subclades might have entered Scandinavia well before the Vikings.

On the flip side, I do know there was a quite a few Scots that settled in Scandinavia during the post Viking era
http://flemish.wp.st-andrews.ac.uk/2015/11/13/migration-from-scotland-before-1700/

Noticeable that Norway has less U106 than the others Scandinavian Countries for whatever reason.

Nibelung
07-30-2017, 06:34 AM
I guess the Vikings took a lot of slaves from Britain and Ireland.

Not that simple:

Gille dynasty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gille_dynasty) and Harold IV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Gille), as examples. You're actually looking at a potential Gaelic dynasty here.

The Gaels and Norwegians got a lot more involved with each other than is widely known and understood, but you can find it in the sagas, settlement books and other sources. Both modern Norse and Irish treatments of the era tend to be rather nationalistic/ethnocentric, with the Scots somewhere in between, however you can (amazingly) find the occasional paper, (even monograph?), which is more objective.

MitchellSince1893
08-02-2017, 07:14 PM
Associated maps. What they show is whether a halplogroup was above or below the 20 region average/median (excluding UK and Ireland numbers).

For example, on the DF27 map, countries in red are above the DF27 region average of 14.15% of R1b, while countries in yellow are below the region average and above the region median (10.4%). While regions in green are below both.

In the case of U106, all regions above the median were also above the region average.
Hg, Region Avg, Region Median
DF27: 14.15%, 10.4%
U152: 17.84%, 16.2%
L21: 11.65%, 10.7%
P312 Other: 6.59%, 6.0%
U106: 29.07%, 31.5%
R1b Other: 20.71%, 6.6%

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b2/3d/21/b23d21a5eb165016fe3e2f6ad2b3a768.png

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/78/e0/19/78e019330129bcb7b5905046e007c2d3.png

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/10/bc/00/10bc00425aaf3b40d6b146971ae1bc71.png

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a3/50/96/a350966bf246c655fa9d9595ee936dbd.png

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/dd/9a/05/dd9a0572c1416d388d346f9a2f2c54b9.png

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e1/a6/2c/e1a62ce141701361e702c91db59e4439.png

Webb
08-04-2017, 12:01 AM
Mitchell, is it ok if I call you Mitchell? Awesome!!!! I always think maps and charts give a very good visual. Some of us are more visual than others. Good job!!

rms2
08-05-2017, 02:38 PM
Here are the FTDNA R1b Percentages for European Countries/Regions as defined in the map above.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ac/3c/fe/ac3cfe1135c8860dff51139055efe522.png

Higher definition image here https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ac/3c/fe/ac3cfe1135c8860dff51139055efe522.png

Any plan to break U106 down into its major subclades?

I apologize if you have already mentioned that.

rms2
08-05-2017, 02:59 PM
I guess the Vikings took a lot of slaves from Britain and Ireland.

Maybe, but remember the Viking Danelaw covered much of Anglo-Saxon eastern England, where U106 has its highest frequencies. It isn't likely the Vikings had y-dna test kits with them, took only L21 guys as slaves and avoided the U106 guys (or U152 guys or DF27 guys, etc.). So, if the L21 in Scandinavia is the product of British and Irish thralls, what is much of the U106 there?

razyn
08-05-2017, 03:00 PM
Very nice, especially the pie charts. I missed a comparable chart like that for The Isles, and it took me a while to find the reason buried in post #8. Luckily this is not yet one of those threads with 147 pages to scan through, for such minutiae.


I will eventually go through the UK and Irish samples but that's a huge undertaking.

MitchellSince1893
08-05-2017, 03:27 PM
Any plan to break U106 down into its major subclades?

I apologize if you have already mentioned that.

I haven't thought about breaking out below these levels, but I might be able to get to it eventually. I need to do the UK and Ireland ones first.

I will need to filter out the ones that are just listed as U106 too.

MitchellSince1893
09-10-2017, 05:08 PM
Finally got through England. 1979 R1b FTDNA samples.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/15/c7/08/15c708dfd5647ccbcb8c1cb6b4093b97.png

Remember these percentages are of R1b... i.e. they don't include non R1b haplogroups.

Think I will do Wales next.

MitchellSince1893
09-10-2017, 07:54 PM
Wales: 184 FTDNA R1b Samples

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/64/e3/dc/64e3dc1bbaef0c1b9e0be744a26d1263.png

Up next Scotland (which has almost 10x more samples than Wales so it's going to take a while)

MitchellSince1893
09-10-2017, 10:02 PM
...Up next Scotland (which has almost 10x more samples than Wales so it's going to take a while)
I've gotten through the easy part of Scotland...the non L21 R1b stuff.

Razyn you will be happy to know there is more DF27 in Scotland than U152. But there is almost 3 times as much U106 in Scotland than DF27...back to the spreadsheet.

rms2
09-10-2017, 11:06 PM
Wales: 184 FTDNA R1b Samples

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/64/e3/dc/64e3dc1bbaef0c1b9e0be744a26d1263.png

Up next Scotland (which has almost 10x more samples than Wales so it's going to take a while)

That's a high percentage of L21! Right up there with Scotland, I'm thinking, but less than Ireland.

MitchellSince1893
09-11-2017, 01:17 AM
Scotland: 1328 FTDNA R1b Samples. The results are quite similar to Wales. Both of which are quite different from England.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/87/69/62/8769627c1e196085c4d2b7380ada2715.pnghttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/64/e3/dc/64e3dc1bbaef0c1b9e0be744a26d1263.png
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/15/c7/08/15c708dfd5647ccbcb8c1cb6b4093b97.png

Up next Northern Ireland.

MitchellSince1893
09-11-2017, 02:19 AM
Northern Ireland: 86 FTDNA R1b Samples.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/3b/b9/c03bb9a2ba1017ebac5a3e6013dcf3b3.pnghttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/87/69/62/8769627c1e196085c4d2b7380ada2715.pnghttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/64/e3/dc/64e3dc1bbaef0c1b9e0be744a26d1263.pnghttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/15/c7/08/15c708dfd5647ccbcb8c1cb6b4093b97.png

Dewsloth
09-11-2017, 03:43 AM
On behalf of "the others" if it's at all possible, could you please identify smaller upper P312 clades like DF19, L238 and DF99? I know we seem statistically insignificant, but we've been around almost as long as P312 itself, and even that new Swedish report showed DF19s.

Maybe there's something to be learned, but if they all get lumped together nobody can tell anything specific about them.

Thanks!

MitchellSince1893
09-11-2017, 11:48 AM
On behalf of "the others" if it's at all possible, could you please identify smaller upper P312 clades like DF19, L238 and DF99? I know we seem statistically insignificant, but we've been around almost as long as P312 itself, and even that new Swedish report showed DF19s.

Maybe there's something to be learned, but if they all get lumped together nobody can tell anything specific about them.

Thanks!

Here are the raw #s

England:
R1b-P312>CTS8492
R1b-P312>DF19
R1b-P312>DF19
R1b-P312>DF19
R1b-P312>DF19
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17112>Z39228
R1b-P312>DF19>L719
R1b-P312>DF19>L719
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302>Z8193>Z17093
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99>FGC16982
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238>CTS11638>BY4659
R-BY12146
R-BY15454
R-DF88
R-DF99
R-FGC11844
R-FGC16979
R-FGC16979
R-FGC847
R-L11
R-L238
R-L238
R-M343
R-M343
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-PH3649
R-S23540
R-Z195
R-Z21729
R-Z30600
R-Z34614
R-Z39380
R-Z40131
R-Z40804
R-Z41627

Wales
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>DF99
R-BY20464
R-DF99
R-P312
R-P312
R-S27900
R-Z43178

Scotland
R1b-P312>DF19
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>S4267>L1200,Z17139
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17112
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17267>A1226
R1b-P312>DF19>L719
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238>A6289
R1b-P312>L238>CTS11638
R1b-P312>Z30597>Z30600
R-A1226
R-BY15444
R-BY15454
R-BY20474
R-DF88
R-DF99
R-M269
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-S1401
R-S4281
R-Z17274
R-Z43258
R-Z43267
R-Z43267

Northern Ireland
R-FGC847
R-P312
R-P312
R-Z17267
R-Z42394

MitchellSince1893
09-11-2017, 12:06 PM
Belarus
R-S1327

Belgium
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R-FGC16979
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-Z30474

Czech Rep
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R-Z40631
R-Z34609

Denmark
R-DF99

Finland
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R-A8150
R-BY4661
R-BY4661
R-FGC17112
R-P312
R-P312

France
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>L238
R-BY19719
R-DF99
R-DF99
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-Z209

Germany
R1b-P312>DF19
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>L238>A6289
R-BY15473
R-DF19
R-DF88
R-DF99
R-DF99
R-L52
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-Y22144
R-Z21279
R-Z29034
R-Z302
R-Z35675
R-Z38434
R-Z39709
R-Z39831
R-Z40619
R-Z41635

Italy
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R-BY3450
R-DF99
R-DF99
R-DF99
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-Y22144

Netherlands
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17112
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17112
R-DF88
R-P312

Norway
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17112
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17112
R-DF88
R-P312

Poland
R1b-P312>DF99
R-Z43235
R-DF99

Portugal
R-BY21094
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312

Russia
R-FGC847

Spain
R1b-P312>DF99
R-BY1058
R-DF81
R-DF99
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312

Sweden
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238>BY2408>Y11662
R-A8150
R-BY21074
R-BY3516
R-BY4659
R-DF88
R-DF99
R-P312
R-Y10831
R-Y11662
R-Y11662
R-Y11662
R-Y11662

Switzerland
R1b-P312>DF99
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312

Countries with only "P312" P312 other samples aren't listed above

Dewsloth
09-11-2017, 04:07 PM
Yikes! Look at Netherlands and Norway...

Thank you very much! :)

GoldenHind
09-12-2017, 11:48 AM
Here are the raw #s



For clarification I would note that several of those you list with only terminal SNPs (such as FGC847, BY3450 and FGC16979) represent subclades of DF99.

Dewsloth
09-12-2017, 03:46 PM
For clarification I would note that several of those you list with only terminal SNPs (such as FGC847, BY3450 and FGC16979) represent subclades of DF99.

Right. I tried color-coding them (Red DF19, Blue DF99, Green L238).
Let me know if you see any I missed, I was working fast. :biggrin1:



Here are the raw #s

England:
R1b-P312>CTS8492
R1b-P312>DF19
R1b-P312>DF19
R1b-P312>DF19
R1b-P312>DF19
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17112>Z39228
R1b-P312>DF19>L719
R1b-P312>DF19>L719
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302>Z8193>Z17093
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99>FGC16982
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238>CTS11638>BY4659
R-BY12146
R-BY15454
R-DF88
R-DF99
R-FGC11844
R-FGC16979
R-FGC16979
R-FGC847
R-L11
R-L238
R-L238
R-M343
R-M343
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-PH3649
R-S23540
R-Z195
R-Z21729
R-Z30600
R-Z34614
R-Z39380
R-Z40131
R-Z40804
R-Z41627

Wales
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>DF99
R-DF99
R-P312
R-P312
R-S27900
R-Z43178

Scotland
R1b-P312>DF19
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>S4267>L1200,Z17139
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17112
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17267>A1226
R1b-P312>DF19>L719
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238>A6289
R1b-P312>L238>CTS11638
R1b-P312>Z30597>Z30600
R-A1226
R-BY15444
R-BY15454
R-BY20474
R-DF88
R-DF99
R-M269
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-S1401
R-S4281
R-Z17274
R-Z43258
R-Z43267
R-Z43267

Northern Ireland
R-FGC847
R-P312
R-P312
R-Z17267
R-Z42394


Belarus
R-S1327 [I think this is a DF27]

Belgium
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R-FGC16979
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-Z30474

Czech Rep
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R-Z40631
R-Z34609

Denmark
R-DF99

Finland
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R-A8150
R-BY4661
R-BY4661
R-FGC17112 [I think this is a DF27]
R-P312
R-P312

France
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>L238
R-BY19719
R-DF99
R-DF99
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-Z209

Germany
R1b-P312>DF19
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>DF19>Z302
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>L238>A6289
R-BY15473
R-DF19
R-DF88
R-DF99
R-DF99
R-L52
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-Y22144
R-Z21279
R-Z29034
R-Z302
R-Z35675
R-Z38434
R-Z39709
R-Z39831
R-Z40619
R-Z41635

Italy
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R-BY3450
R-DF99
R-DF99
R-DF99
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-Y22144

Netherlands
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17112
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17112
R-DF88
R-P312

Norway
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17112
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88>Z17112
R-DF88
R-P312

Poland
R1b-P312>DF99
R-Z43235
R-DF99

Portugal
R-BY21094
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312

Russia
R-FGC847

Spain
R1b-P312>DF99
R-BY1058
R-DF81
R-DF99
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312

Sweden
R1b-P312>DF19>DF88
R1b-P312>DF99
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238
R1b-P312>L238>BY2408>Y11662
R-A8150
R-BY21074
R-BY3516
R-BY4659
R-DF88
R-DF99
R-P312
R-Y10831
R-Y11662
R-Y11662
R-Y11662
R-Y11662

Switzerland
R1b-P312>DF99
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312
R-P312

Countries with only "P312" P312 other samples aren't listed above

MitchellSince1893
09-12-2017, 05:22 PM
For clarification I would note that several of those you list with only terminal SNPs (such as FGC847, BY3450 and FGC16979) represent subclades of DF99.

It's in the format in which I received/gathered the info.

rms2
10-07-2017, 04:39 AM
Nice work.

MitchellSince1893
11-01-2019, 05:24 AM
Here are some updated R1b percentages for 20 Northern & Western European countries. The process this time is a little different than last and should be a little more accurate.

Details can be found in this DF27 thread.
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?827-Where-did-DF27-originate-and-when-and-how-did-it-expand&p=615016&viewfull=1#post615016
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?827-Where-did-DF27-originate-and-when-and-how-did-it-expand&p=615486&viewfull=1#post615486
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?827-Where-did-DF27-originate-and-when-and-how-did-it-expand&p=615778&viewfull=1#post615778


Keep in mind these are percentages of R1b. E.g. U152 makes up 6.5% of R1b in Norway...not 6.5% of all haplogroups.
No other haplogroups are included as non R1b haplogroups are apparently over represented in FTDNA testing which skews the numbers... see last link above for why this may be the case.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/22/1e/51/221e5174e6988f20e71276d9905604dc.png

Easier to read version found here https://i.pinimg.com/originals/22/1e/51/221e5174e6988f20e71276d9905604dc.png

I will add some more countries later.

MitchellSince1893
11-01-2019, 12:40 PM
France percentages now in.

Also, here is the total number of R1b samples per country with at least 10 samples
Albania 16
Armenia 83
Australia 33
Austria 84
Barbados 11
Belarus 40
Belgium 163
Brazil 40
Bulgaria 42
Canada 156
Chile 11
Colombia 14
Cuba 15
Czech Republic 91
Denmark 142
England 4570
Estonia 11
Finland 143
France 1132
Germany 1948
Greece 34
Hungary 101
Iran 11
Iraq 22
Ireland 5704
Isle of Man 13
Italy 496
Kazakhstan 14
Kuwait 19
Latvia 14
Lebanon 26
Lithuania 44
Luxembourg 21
Malta 12
Mexico 120
Netherlands 370
New Zealand 17
Northern Ireland 594
Norway 354
Poland 280
Portugal 273
Puerto Rico 43
Romania 34
Russian Federation 160
Saudi Arabia 49
Scotland 3516
Serbia 10
Slovakia 25
Slovenia 14
South Africa 12
Spain 593
Sweden 583
Switzerland 444
Turkey 52
Ukraine 83
United Kingdom 1703
United States 2515
United States (Native American) 131
Uzbekistan 11
Wales 505



Here are some updated R1b percentages for 20 Northern & Western European countries. The process this time is a little different than last and should be a little more accurate.

Details can be found in this DF27 thread.
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?827-Where-did-DF27-originate-and-when-and-how-did-it-expand&p=615016&viewfull=1#post615016
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?827-Where-did-DF27-originate-and-when-and-how-did-it-expand&p=615486&viewfull=1#post615486
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?827-Where-did-DF27-originate-and-when-and-how-did-it-expand&p=615778&viewfull=1#post615778


Keep in mind these are percentages of R1b. E.g. U152 makes up 6.5% of R1b in Norway...not 6.5% of all haplogroups.
No other haplogroups are included as non R1b haplogroups are apparently over represented in FTDNA testing which skews the numbers... see last link above for why this may be the case.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/22/1e/51/221e5174e6988f20e71276d9905604dc.png

Easier to read version found here https://i.pinimg.com/originals/22/1e/51/221e5174e6988f20e71276d9905604dc.png

I will add some more countries later.

dosas
11-01-2019, 01:19 PM
Thanks for your charts! Can you do Greece as well, if you have time of course!

ArmandoR1b
11-01-2019, 02:01 PM
France percentages now in.

Also, here is the total number of R1b samples per country with at least 10 samples


If possible, I'd like to see the numbers as (n=x) next to the country name in the graphs. The graphs would be even easier to read if they were grouped by geographic region. For instance, northewestern Europe, southwestern Europe, central Europe, and so on. Then post graphs of the individual regions. That way there are fewer graphs per screenshot.

MitchellSince1893
11-01-2019, 03:05 PM
Thanks for your charts! Can you do Greece as well, if you have time of course!

I will do Eastern Europe tonight...next 12 hours

MitchellSince1893
11-01-2019, 03:06 PM
If possible, I'd like to see the numbers as (n=x) next to the country name in the graphs. The graphs would be even easier to read if they were grouped by geographic region. For instance, northewestern Europe, southwestern Europe, central Europe, and so on. Then post graphs of the individual regions. That way there are fewer graphs per screenshot.
I can do that tonight

ArmandoR1b
11-01-2019, 05:04 PM
I can do that tonight

Thanks. I just thought of something else and I am posting it in case you hadn't. British Isles as it's own region separate from northwestern Europe would male things even easier.

MitchellSince1893
11-02-2019, 01:45 AM
Thinking about the best way to present the data, I’ve decided to do things a little different.

I’m creating a google map so that you can click on a country and see the results...including the R1b (R-M343) sample size. Hopefully I can complete it in a few hours.


I’m also going to color code the symbols so that the haplogroup that has a majority/plurality for a country will have its own color.

For example in Ireland, Scotland, Wales there will be a green symbol for Z290 (includes L21).

Once completed I will provide a link to the map.

MitchellSince1893
11-02-2019, 03:36 AM
Thinking about the best way to present the data, I’ve decided to do things a little different.

I’m creating a google map so that you can click on a country and see the results...including the R1b (R-M343) sample size. Hopefully I can complete it in a few hours.


I’m also going to color code the symbols so that the haplogroup that has a majority/plurality for a country will have its own color.

For example in Ireland, Scotland, Wales there will be a green symbol for Z290 (includes L21).

Once completed I will provide a link to the map.

Here is the link to the Map showing the pecentages of R1b subclades
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PaPEVx2uTPFKIYxtmUFh9YT7zHQPHsFn&ll=8.796514687019474%2C0&z=2
Once you go to the link, just click on a country icon on to see the statistics as it pertains to R1b (R-M343) samples. Need at least 10 R1b/M343 samples to get on the map.



DF27 majority/plurality = Red
M73 majority/plurality = Olive Green
U106 majority/plurality = Orange
U152 majority/plurality = Blue
V88 majority/plurality = Violet
Z2103 majority/plurality = Brown
Z290 majority/plurality = Green

Screen shot of the map.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/48/0f/cb480f0e32a545f1109486c470c8aa84.png

Dewsloth
11-02-2019, 05:52 AM
It's the same areas where U106 shows orange above that are also higher in DF19. :confused:

GoldenHind
11-02-2019, 06:16 PM
It's the same areas where U106 shows orange above that are also higher in DF19. :confused:

I have mentioned before that the combined modern distribution of P312 subclades DF19, L238 and DF99 is remarkably similar to that of U106, though in much, much smaller numbers. I do not think that is a coincidence, and I suspect it is significant to the histories of P312 and U106.

MitchellSince1893
11-02-2019, 07:31 PM
I wasn't satisfied with the icons on the map above.

So I created custom piechart icons for each country (Eurasia only)
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=11hkadkeXPzEqpZGaAE93hCflccAj_44u&ll=41.04283710833867%2C6.2954531249999945&z=4

Screen shot of map in the link above
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c2/86/77/c286779eddac37c8853c0224607b6e0a.png

Pylsteen
11-02-2019, 08:11 PM
Wow, DF27 > U152 along the entire Atlantic and North Sea; I wouldn't have guessed so some years back; DF27 seems to pop up everywhere these days.

MitchellSince1893
11-02-2019, 09:42 PM
Info on some of the smaller R1b subclades

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151>P312>DF19 as percentage of R1b (413 samples)
Belgium 7.98%
Isle of Man 7.69%
Luxembourg 4.76%
Czech Republic 4.40%
Germany 4.00%
Canada 3.85%
Netherlands 3.51%
US Native American 3.05%
Austria 2.38%
England 1.79%
Scotland 1.79%
United States 1.71%
Norway 1.69%
N. Ireland 1.52%
Poland 1.43%
United Kingdom 1.29%
Sweden 1.20%
Wales 0.99%
Switzerland 0.90%
France 0.88%
Denmark 0.70%
Russian Federation 0.63%
Ireland 0.54%
Portugal 0.37%
Italy 0.20%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151>P312>L238 as a percentage of R1b (160 samples)
Norway 14.41%
Sweden 7.03%
Finland 4.90%
Denmark 4.23%
Austria 1.19%
Poland 1.07%
United Kingdom 0.47%
United States 0.44%
Scotland 0.28%
England 0.24%
Italy 0.20%
Ireland 0.11%
Germany 0.10%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151>P312>A9063 (5 samples)
France 0.09%
United States 0.08%
Scotland 0.03%
England 0.02%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151>P312>Y18211 (8 samples)
Ukraine 1.2%
Belgium 0.61%
United Kingdom 0.06%
England 0.04%
United States 0.04%
Scotland 0.03%
Ireland 0.02%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151>P312>BY25512 (3 samples)
France: 0.09%
England: 0.04%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151>P312>FGC87429 (235 samples)
Cuba 6.67%
Luxembourg 4.76%
Slovakia 4.00%
Wales 3.76%
Switzerland 2.48%
Czech Republic 2.20%
Denmark 2.11%
Finland 2.10%
Canada 1.92%
Turkey 1.92%
Italy 1.81%
Mexico 1.67%
US Native American 1.53%
Germany 1.39%
United States 1.27%
Russia 1.25%
Austria 1.19%
France 1.06%
England 0.88%
N. Ireland 0.84%
United Kingdom 0.82%
Poland 0.71%
Belgium 0.61%
Scotland 0.60%
Sweden 0.51%
Portugal 0.37%
Spain 0.34%
Netherlands 0.27%
Ireland 0.21%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151>S1194 (231 samples)
South Africa 8.33%
Netherlands 4.32%
Denmark 4.23%
Belgium 3.07%
Sweden 1.54%
Germany 1.49%
Norway 1.41%
United States 1.19%
Austria 1.19%
England 1.18%
Czech Republic 1.10%
Hungary 0.99%
United Kingdom 0.88%
N. Ireland 0.84%
Italy 0.81%
Poland 0.71%
Switzerland 0.68%
Canada 0.64%
Wales 0.59%
Scotland 0.46%
Portugal 0.37%
Ireland 0.35%
France 0.27%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151>A8063 (22 samples)
US (Native American) 1.53%
Portugal 0.37%
Scotland 0.26%
Ireland 0.09%
England 0.07%
Germany 0.05%
United States 0.04%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>PF7589 (131 samples)
South Africa 8.33%
Cuba 6.67%
Switzerland 2.03%
Turkey 1.92%
Belgium 1.84%
Mexico 1.67%
Italy 1.61%
Austria 1.19%
Czech Republic 1.10%
Germany 1.08%
Hungary 0.99%
US Native American 0.76%
United Kingdom 0.76%
Portugal 0.73%
Poland 0.71%
United States 0.52%
Spain 0.51%
Scotland 0.37%
England 0.35%
Norway 0.28%
Ireland 0.21%
Wales 0.20%
France 0.18%
Sweden 0.17%
N. Ireland 0.17%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>Z2103 (718 samples)
Armenia 89.16%
Kuwait 73.68%
Turkey 69.23%
Iraq 63.64%
Iran 63.64%
Albania 56.25%
Bulgaria 52.38%
Greece 41.18%
Saudi Arabia 38.78%
Lebanon 38.46%
Malta 33.33%
Russia 26.88%
Romania 26.47%
Serbia 20.00%
Lithuania 18.18%
Slovenia 14.29%
Kazakhstan 14.29%
Poland 13.57%
Ukraine 13.25%
Czech Republic 12.09%
Slovakia 12.00%
Italy 11.09%
Hungary 10.89%
Chile 9.09%
Uzbekistan 9.09%
Austria 8.33%
Brazil 5.00%
Belarus 5.00%
Portugal 3.66%
Germany 2.87%
Switzerland 2.70%
France 2.12%
Finland 2.10%
Canada 1.92%
Sweden 1.89%
Spain 1.69%
Mexico 1.67%
Norway 1.13%
United Kingdom 1.00%
United States 0.76%
England 0.63%
Netherlands 0.54%
Ireland 0.46%
Scotland 0.37%
N. Ireland 0.34%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>PF7562 (117 samples)
Lebanon 34.62%
Albania 31.25%
Belarus 17.50%
Iraq 13.64%
Saudi Arabia 12.24%
Ukraine 10.84%
Serbia 10.00%
Iran 9.09%
Romania 8.82%
Malta 8.33%
Bulgaria 7.14%
Armenia 6.02%
Greece 5.88%
Turkey 5.77%
Luxembourg 4.76%
Italy 3.23%
Russia 3.13%
Lithuania 2.27%
Hungary 1.98%
Poland 1.79%
Mexico 0.83%
Portugal 0.73%
Canada 0.64%
Belgium 0.61%
Germany 0.26%
United Kingdom 0.18%
Spain 0.17%
United States 0.12%
England 0.09%
Ireland 0.04%
Scotland 0.03%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M73 (73 samples)
Uzbekistan 90.91%
Kazakhstan 71.43%
Russia 15.00%
Romania 5.88%
Ukraine 2.41%
Lithuania 2.27%
Turkey 1.92%
Italy 0.40%
Poland 0.36%
Spain 0.17%
Germany 0.10%
France 0.09%
England 0.09%
United Kingdom 0.06%

M343>L754>L389>V1636 (16 samples)
Kuwait 10.53%
Belarus 5.00%
Iraq 4.55%
Lebanon 3.85%
Bulgaria 2.38%
Puerto Rico 2.33%
Turkey 1.92%
Armenia 1.20%
Russian Federation 0.63%
Italy 0.40%
Germany 0.05%

M343>L754>V88 (93 samples)
Saudi Arabia 46.94%
Kuwait 15.79%
Malta 8.33%
Latvia 7.14%
Ukraine 6.02%
Mexico 4.17%
Greece 2.94%
Belarus 2.50%
Russia 2.50%
Brazil 2.50%
Bulgaria 2.38%
Lithuania 2.27%
Hungary 1.98%
Poland 0.71%
Italy 0.40%
Portugal 0.37%
Spain 0.34%
Germany 0.31%
Netherlands 0.27%
France 0.27%
United Kingdom 0.18%
United States 0.08%
England 0.07%
Scotland 0.06%

M343>PH155
Albania 12.50%
Turkey 3.85%
Italy 0.20%
Germany 0.10%
United Kingdom 0.06%
United States 0.04%
England 0.02%

MitchellSince1893
11-02-2019, 10:14 PM
And the R1b "Big 4" Again these are percentages of R1b per country...not overall percentages.

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151>P312>Z290 (12,254 samples. 12250 L21 samples and 4 BY22760 samples that all have US as country of origin)
Ireland 82.49%
N. Ireland 69.02%
Scotland 67.01%
Wales 66.73%
New Zealand 58.82%
Isle of Man 53.85%
Australia 51.52%
Canada 49.36%
United States 46.72%
US Native American 44.27%
United Kingdom 42.28%
Barbados 36.36%
England 30.68%
Latvia 28.57%
Colombia 28.57%
South Africa 25.00%
France 22.44%
Norway 21.47%
Slovenia 21.43%
Serbia 20.00%
Denmark 14.08%
Sweden 14.07%
Puerto Rico 13.95%
Portugal 13.92%
Spain 13.83%
Cuba 13.33%
Finland 13.29%
Brazil 12.50%
Mexico 11.67%
Netherlands 10.00%
Belgium 9.82%
Bulgaria 9.52%
Iraq 9.09%
Germany 9.03%
Russia 6.88%
Lithuania 6.82%
Greece 5.88%
Romania 5.88%
Poland 5.71%
Italy 5.44%
Switzerland 5.41%
Belarus 5.00%
Hungary 4.95%
Austria 4.76%
Czech Republic 4.40%
Slovakia 4.00%
Ukraine 1.20%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151>P312>ZZ11>DF27 (3629 samples)
Chile 72.73%
Spain 67.28%
Portugal 64.10%
Mexico 59.17%
Puerto Rico 58.14%
Brazil 57.50%
Colombia 57.14%
Cuba 46.67%
France 29.33%
Belarus 22.50%
Barbados 18.18%
Belgium 17.79%
Ukraine 15.66%
Isle of Man 15.38%
Canada 14.74%
England 14.57%
Czech Republic 14.29%
Switzerland 13.96%
United States 12.80%
Italy 12.50%
United Kingdom 11.92%
Netherlands 11.89%
Finland 11.89%
Poland 11.79%
Hungary 10.89%
Germany 10.73%
US Native American 10.69%
Sweden 10.63%
Denmark 10.56%
N. Ireland 9.93%
Bulgaria 9.52%
Luxembourg 9.52%
Iran 9.09%
Greece 8.82%
South Africa 8.33%
Malta 8.33%
Wales 8.32%
Scotland 8.16%
Slovakia 8.00%
Latvia 7.14%
Lithuania 6.82%
Austria 5.95%
Norway 5.93%
New Zealand 5.88%
Romania 5.88%
Ireland 5.21%
Lebanon 3.85%
Russia 3.13%
Australia 3.03%
Armenia 2.41%
Turkey 1.92%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151>P312>ZZ11>U152 (2999 samples)
Italy 50.81%
Switzerland 43.02%
Austria 33.33%
Serbia 30.00%
Hungary 29.70%
Czech Republic 29.67%
Romania 29.41%
Latvia 28.57%
Slovenia 28.57%
Belarus 27.50%
Greece 26.47%
France 25.44%
Malta 25.00%
Lithuania 25.00%
Slovakia 24.00%
Luxembourg 23.81%
Puerto Rico 23.26%
Germany 21.61%
Australia 21.21%
Poland 20.36%
Cuba 20.00%
Lebanon 19.23%
Belgium 18.40%
Barbados 18.18%
Estonia 18.18%
Ukraine 18.07%
South Africa 16.67%
Russia 16.25%
Mexico 13.33%
England 11.73%
US Native American 11.45%
Denmark 11.27%
Netherlands 10.81%
Finland 10.49%
Brazil 10.00%
Sweden 9.95%
Turkey 9.62%
Spain 9.11%
Chile 9.09%
Iran 9.09%
Iraq 9.09%
United Kingdom 8.98%
United States 7.79%
Isle of Man 7.69%
Portugal 7.33%
Colombia 7.14%
Kazakhstan 7.14%
Norway 6.50%
Canada 6.41%
New Zealand 5.88%
Wales 5.35%
Bulgaria 4.76%
Scotland 4.01%
N. Ireland 3.70%
Ireland 2.73%
Saudi Arabia 2.04%
Armenia 1.20%

M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151>U106 (6826 samples)
Estonia 81.82%
Netherlands 58.38%
Finland 55.24%
Sweden 53.00%
Denmark 52.82%
Luxembourg 52.38%
Slovakia 48.00%
Norway 47.18%
Germany 46.82%
Poland 41.07%
Austria 40.48%
Belgium 39.26%
Hungary 37.62%
England 37.51%
Lithuania 36.36%
Slovenia 35.71%
South Africa 33.33%
Ukraine 31.33%
United Kingdom 31.06%
Czech Republic 30.77%
New Zealand 29.41%
Switzerland 28.83%
Latvia 28.57%
Barbados 27.27%
US Native American 26.72%
United States 26.40%
Australia 24.24%
Russia 23.75%
Canada 20.51%
Serbia 20.00%
France 17.76%
Romania 17.65%
Malta 16.67%
Scotland 16.55%
Isle of Man 15.38%
Belarus 15.00%
Wales 14.06%
N. Ireland 13.64%
Brazil 12.50%
Bulgaria 11.90%
Italy 10.89%
Chile 9.09%
Iran 9.09%
Greece 8.82%
Portugal 7.69%
Ireland 7.56%
Colombia 7.14%
Kazakhstan 7.14%
Cuba 6.67%
Spain 6.58%
Mexico 5.83%
Puerto Rico 2.33%
Turkey 1.92%

ArmandoR1b
11-02-2019, 10:47 PM
I wasn't satisfied with the icons on the map above.

So I created custom piechart icons for each country (Eurasia only)
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=11hkadkeXPzEqpZGaAE93hCflccAj_44u&ll=41.04283710833867%2C6.2954531249999945&z=4

Screen shot of map in the link above
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c2/86/77/c286779eddac37c8853c0224607b6e0a.png

Is there a way to include the number of kits for each country? How about a legend? BTW, personally I really liked the tables from post #38 more than the maps.

MitchellSince1893
11-02-2019, 10:51 PM
Is there a way to include the number of kits for each country? How about a legend? BTW, personally I really liked the tables from post #38 more than the maps.

EDIT: See below. Didn't realize I had my maps set to private. You should now be able to view the map and click on a country icon to see the total number of R1b samples and the percentages for each R1b subclade.

Sorry about that.

MitchellSince1893
11-02-2019, 11:47 PM
Is there a way to include the number of kits for each country? How about a legend? BTW, personally I really liked the tables from post #38 more than the maps.

I now understand why you are underwhelmed by the maps... I just realized thanks to Wing Genealogist PM that my map links are set to private. I have changed them to public. So when you click on an icon you can see the total samples for that country and the percentages of each subclade for that country.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=11hkadkeXPzEqpZGaAE93hCflccAj_44u&ll=47.85281893083755%2C20.797406249999995&z=4

Example for France
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/db/8f/53/db8f5345cf4e208669805f3ffc6a7494.png

MitchellSince1893
11-03-2019, 12:11 AM
Could some one confirm for me that the map link below is giving them access?
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=11hkadkeXPzEqpZGaAE93hCflccAj_44u&ll=47.85281893083755%2C20.797406249999995&z=4

G Livesey
11-03-2019, 12:18 AM
Could some one confirm for me that the map link below is giving them access?
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=11hkadkeXPzEqpZGaAE93hCflccAj_44u&ll=47.85281893083755%2C20.797406249999995&z=4

Link opened the Pie Chart Map.

MitchellSince1893
11-03-2019, 12:22 AM
Link opened the Pie Chart Map.

Ok thanks for confirming it works for you guys.

GoldenHind
11-03-2019, 12:23 AM
Are you using data from FTDNA projects or from their public haplotree database?

MitchellSince1893
11-03-2019, 12:26 AM
Are you using data from FTDNA projects or from their public haplotree database?

Haplotree database, but with a modification.

I took the individual country totals for each P312 subclade, added them up for a total for P312. This total would only include men who had tested positive for a P312 subclade, thus eliminating any generic P312 that hadn't done any further testing.

2. I then repeated the process for the non P312 L151 subclades
3. Repeat for the non L151 subclades of P310
4. Repeat for the non P310 subclades of L51
5. Repeat for the non L51 subclades of L23
6. Repeat for the non L23 subclades of M269
7. Repeat for the non P297 subclades of L389
8. Repeat for the non L754 subclades of M343

The rationale behind this was discussed in the DF27 thread here. It was a way eliminate the generic P312, M269, M343 etc. samples in the haplotree.
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?827-Where-did-DF27-originate-and-when-and-how-did-it-expand&p=615016&viewfull=1#post615016

Dewsloth
11-03-2019, 03:55 AM
Could some one confirm for me that the map link below is giving them access?
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=11hkadkeXPzEqpZGaAE93hCflccAj_44u&ll=47.85281893083755%2C20.797406249999995&z=4

It works fine on my iPhone :)

Wing Genealogist
11-03-2019, 11:03 AM
Being a U106 "fanatic", I have always been a bit miffed by the fact all of the analytical work (such as this R1b map), P312 is broken down into its various subclades, while U106 is not. Then I remembered at the very top of the U106 tree are a couple of bifurcations (Z2265/A2150 and BY30097/3 tiny clades) where tiny slivers break off from the main trunk, but over 99% of the subclades stay on the main branch.

For all essential purposes, either Z2265 or BY30097 could be substituted for U106. Z2265 would be at the same level as the branch points of P312 (Z290, U152, DF27, and the tiny clades), so it is fair to compare U106 to these direct subclades of P312.

This situation is much akin to Z290 and L21. There are VERY few individuals who have been found to be Z290+ but L21-.

RobertCasey
11-03-2019, 01:31 PM
Being a U106 "fanatic", I have always been a bit miffed by the fact all of the analytical work (such as this R1b map), P312 is broken down into its various subclades, while U106 is not.

R-U106 does not have many active downstream haplogroup projects as does R-L21. Also, the nature of U106 is very different. U106 has a slow progression of orderly branching over time. L21 (and other parts of P312) have huge starbursts of very large branches that more self contained and easier to manage. L21 has many more pockets of expertise and run their projects very independently - but the methodical progression of branching under U106 requires more centralized database approach. Also, R1b P312 and even L21 projects are not that relevant these days as all analysis is being done in the large non-overlapping haplogroups - so downstream P312/L21 projects operate very independently of each other. Under L21, L513, DF49, Z255, Z253, DF41, DF63 have no overlap that can be easily split out. U106 (and R1a) has a more hierarchical progression of YSNP branches that have huge overlap that are not conducive to simplistic maps that L21 can be separated in to neat little buckets.

razyn
11-03-2019, 03:21 PM
I now understand why you are underwhelmed by the maps... I just realized thanks to Wing Genealogist PM that my map links are set to private. I have changed them to public. So when you click on an icon you can see the total samples for that country and the percentages of each subclade for that country.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=11hkadkeXPzEqpZGaAE93hCflccAj_44u&ll=47.85281893083755%2C20.797406249999995&z=4

Example for France
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/db/8f/53/db8f5345cf4e208669805f3ffc6a7494.png

I'm arriving late to this thread, was busy the last couple of days and hadn't noticed it. But one thing that struck me (and I don't believe it's been mentioned) is the degree to which France exceeds any other (modern, therefore irrelevant to what actually happened 4-5 thousand years ago) "country" in its relative balance of the major P312 subclades. It's more obvious on the bar graphs, but easily visible also on the little pie charts of this map.

And I wonder if that reflects any prehistoric reality about that part of Europe. More likely, I should think, the relatively low level of testing in France (or for French-American surname projects) has blown away some chaff that is present, for some locally popular haplogroup, almost anywhere else.

Speaking of that, an open access preprint posted on the "New DNA Papers" thread yesterday (by pmokeefe) includes a fairly interesting map of 961 aDNA samples. Selected for the goals of its authors, correspondence to Elhaik (so there is perhaps a certain agenda to be expected), but anyway it's a map I haven't seen discussed yet. 961 aDNA samples, mapped across Eurasia. France is almost as unrepresented as Russia. It's Fig. 1, page 4 of this paper: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2019/11/02/828962.full.pdf

34358

Wing Genealogist
11-03-2019, 03:56 PM
I REALLY like this research done by MitchellSince1893 and the following is not directed at him.

One major flaw of this research is due to the fact the Country of Origin (from the Most Distant Paternal Ancestor, MDPA) comes from FTDNA's customer's self reporting. Unfortunately, all too many individuals have either incorrectly identified their MDPA or their MDPA doesn't accurately reflect their Country of Origin (pre Colonization of the Western Hemisphere and Australia, etc. as well as South Africa).

All too many Americans (and to a lesser extant Canadians) are woefully ignorant of their actual ancestry and/or do not understand exactly what FTDNA is asking when they ask for the Most Distant Paternal Ancestor (MDPA) The fact 131 R1b+ individuals stated their MDPA was U.S. Native American is the perfect example of this.

None of the countries of the Western Hemisphere (as well as Australia et al and South Africa) have ANY pre-colonial R1b ancestry (but I can understand how a person would answer their MDPA was from these regions).

We would have to expect that a small number from many countries in Western Europe come are also in error, due to individuals from the "colonies" incorrectly identifying their Country of Origin.

MitchellSince1893
11-03-2019, 05:23 PM
“Warts and all”. The FTDNA data has quite a few less than desirable characteristics.

1. Designation based on STR testing alone as M269, apparently makes these men less likely to pursue SNP testing, when compared to other haplogroups...meaning M269 is under represented. Same may be true for M343.

2. As mentioned by Wing genealogist, errors/inability to correctly identify country of origin for paternal line

3. New World testers may not be a true reflection of the haplogroup make up of their ancestral homeland as ArmandoR1b discussed.

4. There are probably others as well.

It is what it is...treat the above data accordingly. I think it is useful in identifying trends, patterns, and correlations

In the pie chart map

Green Z290/L21 is predominant R1b in NW Europe

Red DF27 is predominant R1b in SW Europe

Gold/Orange U106 is predominant R1b in Central/Northern Europe

Blue U152 is 2nd only to U106 in 13 countries in Central Europe...almost as if U152 was previously dominant in much of Central Europe prior to the arrival of U106. This would match what we see in ancient dna.

Brown Z2103 is predominant R1b in SE Europe and the Middle East

Olive Green M73 is predominant R1b in Central Asia


And as razyn noted France is the one area where the Big 4 L151 subclades are roughly equal in size.

rms2
11-03-2019, 06:16 PM
I appreciate all of MitchellSince1893's work, but for me modern haplogroup distribution is only very mildly interesting and generally a real yawner. It takes me back to about 2011 and earlier, before reliable ancient dna started rolling in, when everybody and his brother was drawing far reaching conclusions based on where the various y-chromosome haplogroups are found now.

That kind of thing is still far too influential, IMHO.

MitchellSince1893
11-03-2019, 06:29 PM
Per my comments about U152 coming in 2nd to U106 in 13 Central European countries, it's interesting where other haplogroups come in 2nd.

For example, Z290/L21 comes in 2nd in Portugal, Spain, and every Nordic country (Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark), and strong showing in Latvia (3rd at 29%). Wonder what's the history behind these results.

ArmandoR1b
11-03-2019, 08:55 PM
I now understand why you are underwhelmed by the maps... I just realized thanks to Wing Genealogist PM that my map links are set to private. I have changed them to public. So when you click on an icon you can see the total samples for that country and the percentages of each subclade for that country.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=11hkadkeXPzEqpZGaAE93hCflccAj_44u&ll=47.85281893083755%2C20.797406249999995&z=4

Example for France
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/db/8f/53/db8f5345cf4e208669805f3ffc6a7494.png

Not being able to access the map due to it being private was part of the problem. I do appreciate what you have done so far. I'll comment on aspects I would prefer to be corrected but I fully understand if you no longer desire to make changes so if there is no change it is no big deal.


I don't see a total of all kits used and I still don't see a color legend. Maybe both can be added to where it says R1b haplogroups as a percentage of R1b total
Are you willing to share the spreadsheet that contains the data in Google Sheets? The pie charts don't increase in size as I zoom in. This makes the spreadsheets and/or bar graphs more helpful because it's easier to quickly scan those than the pie charts.

MitchellSince1893
11-03-2019, 09:09 PM
Not being able to access the map due to it being private was part of the problem. I do appreciate what you have done so far. I'll comment on aspects I would prefer to be corrected but I fully understand if you no longer desire to make changes so if there is no change it is no big deal.


I don't see a total of all kits used and I still don't see a color legend. Maybe both can be added to where it says R1b haplogroups as a percentage of R1b total
Are you willing to share the spreadsheet that contains the data in Google Sheets? The pie charts don't increase in size as I zoom in. This makes the spreadsheets and/or bar graphs more helpful because it's easier to quickly scan those than the pie charts.


Here is a bar graph for Eastern Europe. This provides bar graphs for 36 countries (20 on the previous one for Western/Northern Europe and 16 in this eastern europe one), which is most of them, but there are still some not included...mostly new world, oceania, middle east and central asia.

Higher definition chart here https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/e6/07/51e6072610df516f1a8dd6375a2a6d96.png

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/e6/07/51e6072610df516f1a8dd6375a2a6d96.png

ArmandoR1b
11-03-2019, 09:25 PM
I REALLY like this research done by MitchellSince1893 and the following is not directed at him.

One major flaw of this research is due to the fact the Country of Origin (from the Most Distant Paternal Ancestor, MDPA) comes from FTDNA's customer's self reporting. Unfortunately, all too many individuals have either incorrectly identified their MDPA or their MDPA doesn't accurately reflect their Country of Origin (pre Colonization of the Western Hemisphere and Australia, etc. as well as South Africa).

All too many Americans (and to a lesser extant Canadians) are woefully ignorant of their actual ancestry and/or do not understand exactly what FTDNA is asking when they ask for the Most Distant Paternal Ancestor (MDPA) The fact 131 R1b+ individuals stated their MDPA was U.S. Native American is the perfect example of this.

None of the countries of the Western Hemisphere (as well as Australia et al and South Africa) have ANY pre-colonial R1b ancestry (but I can understand how a person would answer their MDPA was from these regions).

We would have to expect that a small number from many countries in Western Europe come are also in error, due to individuals from the "colonies" incorrectly identifying their Country of Origin.

But how much does that actually affect the general data? It is probably very minute considering the country of origin of most of those kits already have more than 100 times the number of kits. For instance, Native American R1b at 131 kits and if we use an extreme hypothetical even if 60 of them were German and 27 of those were Z290 then that would raise Z290 from 9.03% to 10%. Of course the paternal ancestors of those people are more likely to be from the British Isles which have even more kits and already have a higher percentage of Z290 therefore the impact is even lower. The nice thing about stats is that we can get a good general idea even when there are errors and the errors aren't necessarily as impactful as one might think. Even the error I had brought up to MitchellSince1893 was far less impactful than a situation, that isn't really an error per se, that caused more of an unexpected difference.

ArmandoR1b
11-04-2019, 06:45 AM
There is a newly published study with a significant number of samples from the Netherlands which allows for a comparison of samples of people living in the country vs the FTDNA public haplotree data for Netherlands. The study is Altena et al. The Dutch Y-chromosomal landscape. Eur J Hum Genet (2019) doi:10.1038/s41431-019-0496-0 at https://doi.org/10.1038/s41431-019-0496-0

I used the same methodology with the results of the study as the map using subclades as a percentage of the total R-M343. There is a difference, as would be expected, but it is not a significant difference. Here are the study results and the data from FTDNA used in the map.

Dutch results from study


M343 Total
1205
%


U106
712
59.09%


P312
441
36.60%


U152
140
11.62%


L21
92
7.63%



Netherlands results from FTDNA



M343 total
370


U106
58.38%


P312
32.70%


U152
10.81%


Z290
10.00%

dosas
11-04-2019, 01:44 PM
Z2103 in Bulgaria and Greece outnumbers any other in relative popularity. Any ideas why this is?

Aspar
11-04-2019, 03:04 PM
Z2103 in Bulgaria and Greece outnumbers any other in relative popularity. Any ideas why this is?

Probably because the ancient Balkan people like the Thracians and the ancient Greeks ultimately were derived from the same Indo-European BA people of Yamnaya.
Actually this maps are pretty good in depicting that pattern of same origin because as we can see, Z2103 is quite strong in the Balkans, Anatolia and the Middle East.
And as you go more to the West and North, in Corded Ware and Bell Beaker dominated groups, it's less and less.
One interesting thing I've noticed is that Lithuania is also strong in Z2013 and as I know, the linguistics show similarities between the ancient Balkan languages and the Lithuanian.

Mis
11-04-2019, 04:57 PM
Lithuania z2103? . Very strange

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/LituaniaPropria?iframe=yresults

Aspar
11-04-2019, 06:12 PM
Lithuania z2103? . Very strange

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/LituaniaPropria?iframe=yresults

Well that's what that map posted by MitchellSince1893 shows, around 20% Z2103, unless those Z2103 are not some Jews of course.

MitchellSince1893
11-04-2019, 06:49 PM
Lithuania z2103? . Very strange

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/LituaniaPropria?iframe=yresults

1 is R-Z2103>M12149>Z2106
2 are R-Z2103>M12149>Y4362
5 are Z2103>M12149>R-Y13369>L584 of which 4 are L584>PF7580

MitchellSince1893
11-04-2019, 06:52 PM
There is a newly published study with a significant number of samples from the Netherlands which allows for a comparison of samples of people living in the country vs the FTDNA public haplotree data for Netherlands. The study is Altena et al. The Dutch Y-chromosomal landscape. Eur J Hum Genet (2019) doi:10.1038/s41431-019-0496-0 at https://doi.org/10.1038/s41431-019-0496-0

I used the same methodology with the results of the study as the map using subclades as a percentage of the total R-M343. There is a difference, as would be expected, but it is not a significant difference. Here are the study results and the data from FTDNA used in the map.

Dutch results from study


M343 Total
1205
%


U106
712
59.09%


P312
441
36.60%


U152
140
11.62%


L21
92
7.63%



Netherlands results from FTDNA



M343 total
370


U106
58.38%


P312
32.70%


U152
10.81%


Z290
10.00%






Well this study's figures give me a warm fuzzy that the FTDNA R1b percentages are, at least for the Netherlands, reasonable.

ArmandoR1b
11-04-2019, 07:55 PM
Well this study's figures give me a warm fuzzy that the FTDNA R1b percentages are, at least for the Netherlands, reasonable.

It is because of how reasonable the FTDNA stats are compared to stats of the large number of samples in the Netherlands from that study that I post that information. Hopefully it removes some doubt from those that had doubts about stats from FTDNA and just needed empirical data from the original country of origin. I am looking forward to studies such as Altena et al. 2019 but for other countries so that it solidifies how good the FTDNA stats are. I think the country with the largest difference in total stats (including non-R1b) will be Spain.

ArmandoR1b
11-04-2019, 08:14 PM
Lithuania z2103? . Very strange

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/LituaniaPropria?iframe=yresults

That project does not have all of the people from Lithuania that are positive for a subclade of R1b-M434. Not everyone joins projects. The stats in the map are a percentage of specific R1b-M434 subclades divided by R1b-M434. It isn't a percent of all haplogroups. The total M343 samples from Lithuania are only 44. So 8 people from Lithuania are positive for Z2103 which is 18.18% of R1b-M434.

MitchellSince1893
11-05-2019, 01:22 AM
That project does not have all of the people from Lithuania that are positive for a subclade of R1b-M434. Not everyone joins projects...

This is very true. For example: There are currently 2712 members in the FTDNA U152 project and there are 5573 U152 men in the FTDNA database...less than 50% participation in the project.

Mis
11-05-2019, 09:07 AM
But only one person has the Lithuanian surname.
And that's suspicious anyway.

rafc
11-05-2019, 11:36 AM
Z2103 in Bulgaria and Greece outnumbers any other in relative popularity. Any ideas why this is?

It's a combination of two effects: first the fact that there is little P312/U106 in those countries, secondly the Z2103 comes mainly from one recent cluster: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2705/
As you can see this cluster has a TMRCA in the late Roman/Early middle ages. The success of this cluster has driven Z2103 over the other R1b branches. Without it Z2103 would look a lot smaller.

Aspar
11-05-2019, 02:25 PM
It's a combination of two effects: first the fact that there is little P312/U106 in those countries, secondly the Z2103 comes mainly from one recent cluster: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2705/
As you can see this cluster has a TMRCA in the late Roman/Early middle ages. The success of this cluster has driven Z2103 over the other R1b branches. Without it Z2103 would look a lot smaller.

Hmm, I've just looked into the Bulgarian DNA project at FTDNA and there are only 8 samples marked under 'BY611' SNP which is on the same level as Z2705, out of 44 R1B samples which makes Z2705 around 18% out of all R1B samples.
Or are there are any other statistics which I am not aware of?

Mis
11-05-2019, 05:12 PM
I can say R1b Balkan and EE is superficial, tree R1b-Z2103 does not exist at all.

ArmandoR1b
11-05-2019, 06:19 PM
But only one person has the Lithuanian surname.
And that's suspicious anyway.

I went through the Lithuanian project and I don't see a single one in that project that is terminal for FGC36759, BY38925, L584, Y24735 or Y5587. Those are the 5 terminal subclades the 8 Lithuanians are positive for. Four of the Lithuanians are in the project at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/JewishR1b/default.aspx?section=yresults with the terminal SNPs of FGC36759, BY38925, L584. One Lithuanian with terminal SNP Y5587 is at the project at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b?iframe=yresults

Do the surnames still look suspicious?

ArmandoR1b
11-05-2019, 07:07 PM
It's a combination of two effects: first the fact that there is little P312/U106 in those countries, secondly the Z2103 comes mainly from one recent cluster: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2705/
As you can see this cluster has a TMRCA in the late Roman/Early middle ages. The success of this cluster has driven Z2103 over the other R1b branches. Without it Z2103 would look a lot smaller.


Hmm, I've just looked into the Bulgarian DNA project at FTDNA and there are only 8 samples marked under 'BY611' SNP which is on the same level as Z2705, out of 44 R1B samples which makes Z2705 around 18% out of all R1B samples.
Or are there are any other statistics which I am not aware of?


At YFull there are 8 from Bulgaria under R-Z2103. Only 3 of those are under R-Z2705. So it doesn't look like R-Z2705 is the main cluster of R-Z2103. Not everyone joins projects so the best way to find the Bulgarians is to go to every subclade of R-Z2103 at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/R;name=R-Z2103 then continue to get the count of Bulgarians for each one until you find all 22 of them that are positive for R-Z2103. Then you can search on the terminal SNP with Google with FTDNA "Bulgaria" R-LNNNNN by replace LNNNNN with the terminal name to see which ones are in projects and which projects.


14 of them are in the R1b and Subclades Project at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b?iframe=yresults under the grouping 120. Z2103+ Subclades (R1b-M343>L278/P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>Z2103)

The other 8 are either in other projects or not in any project at all.

RobertCasey
11-05-2019, 09:31 PM
Haplotree database, but with a modification.
I took the individual country totals for each P312 subclade, added them up for a total for P312. This total would only include men who had tested positive for a P312 subclade, thus eliminating any generic P312 that hadn't done any further testing.

If you used only the FTDNA public haplotree, it appears that these only include Big Y testers (it does not appear to updated with all Big Y testers as well but does have most of them). I compared the public FTDNA haplotree for L226 with my spreadsheet summary of L226:

For all confirmed L226 testers - I have 307 from Ireland (includes SNP packs and individually tested YSNPs from FTDNA)
For all Big Y L226 testers - I have 142 from Ireland
The FTDNA public haplotree - has only 137 from Ireland

So these summaries do not include YSNP confirmed testers from SNP packs or individual YSNP tests.

With respect to the surprising results from U106, I think that U106 probably has a lot more Big Y tests than other haplogroups. Just look at the U106 project and you can see that around 80 to 90 % of testers are confirmed via YSNPs. Also, they currently have $2,800 in project funds which indicates that they are pretty good for sponsoring a lot more YSNP testing than other haplogroups. Also, as everyone knows, they have some heavy weight admins driving a lot more Big Y testers than other haplogroups. Also, Scandinavian testers do not have surnames that originated a long time ago and they have to be much better YSNP tested as surnames do not help them sort out clusters to any extent. Also, most larger Scandinavian projects have gone private - but my spreadsheet includes these projects when they were public.

If you used my spreadsheet, it has issues as well. It is little over two years old but does cover 5,000 haplogroup R concentric projects (June, 2017 was the last pull of any significance). I try to create strings of major haplogroups to allow sorting of haplogroups. This is constant ongoing update process as the haplotree changes so often (probably 10 % are not properly labeled in the haplogroup string). It is from public projects but over 50 % of testers remain at the FTDNA default "opt in to sharing" disabled (based on recruitment of new L226 project members). It only has the terminal YSNP branch when the tester was discovered as being a Y67 tester. So these terminal YSNP branches can be quite dated. When I conduct haplogroup analysis outside of L226, I use Big Tree and YSNP reports (as well as updating from the YSTR report but I do not go back and update the master YSTR spreadsheet).

dosas
11-05-2019, 10:17 PM
I can say R1b Balkan and EE is superficial, tree R1b-Z2103 does not exist at all.

What does that even mean? Can you explain further?

MitchellSince1893
11-05-2019, 10:50 PM
If you used only the FTDNA public haplotree, it appears that these only include Big Y testers (it does not appear to updated with all Big Y testers as well but does have most of them). ...So these summaries do not include YSNP confirmed testers from SNP packs or individual YSNP tests.

Hmm. When I look at my terminal branch, FGC12384, it shows 4 men on this branch. I know who all 4 are. Only 3 have done BigY (2 BigY700s and 1 BigY500). One has done a single SNP test (me). The same was true when we had 2 BigY500 results, the other 2 had only done single SNP test (one has since done BigY700). So on my branch the single SNP tests are showing up on the FTDNA haplotree.

RobertCasey
11-06-2019, 12:07 AM
Hmm. When I look at my terminal branch, FGC12384, it shows 4 men on this branch. I know who all 4 are. Only 3 have done BigY (2 BigY700s and 1 BigY500). One has done a single SNP test (me). The same was true when we had 2 BigY500 results, the other 2 had only done single SNP test (one has since done BigY700). So on my branch the single SNP tests are showing up on the FTDNA haplotree.

My analysis is across over 100 Big Y testers under L226 and over 300 testers that are confirmed by YSNP testing for L226 or branches under L226. These testers have some geography entered that FTDNA includes in their public haplotree. Using only Big Y results is still a valid analysis, but is probably only 25 or 30 % of the confirmed testers due to SNP packs and individual YSNP tests. Also, for L226, we can predict several hundred additional Y67 testers as well (over 99 % accuracy). Confirmed and predicted L226 are over 830 testers at Y67 and another 370 testers at Y37 only. So the public FTDNA haplotree only has 137 testers out of 1,200 confirmed and predicted L226 testers.

Here is a link to the L226 testers:

http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/R_L226/Haplotrees/L226_Signatures.xlsx

MitchellSince1893
11-06-2019, 01:48 AM
All I can say in response is I didn’t do BigY and I show up on the tree.

RobertCasey
11-06-2019, 03:07 AM
All I can say in response is I didn’t do BigY and I show up on the tree.

The public FTDNA haplotree does not show any FTDNA IDs - it shows just countries and number of confirmed testers for each YSNP branch (including downstream YSNP branches).

If you sort column CD in the HG R spreadsheet, there are 19,640 confirmed testers for haplogroup R. This data is more than two years old, includes only 5,000 projects out of 10,000 projects and is missing 50 % of the testers due to privacy settings. The spreadsheet has no testers with a FTDNA ID that is greater than 700000.

The public FTDNA haplotree shows only 11,542 confirmed testers under haplogroup R.

A sample size of four is just too small to make conclusions due to privacy settings, 10,000 projects to inspect, YSTR reports being turned off for 100s of projects, etc. If you can log into one of the Big Y testers accounts, you can look at the Big Y Block Tree and may be able to see all the Big Y testers shown there. However, FGC12384 is 980 YBP and random statistical variation YSNPs may not show up. You can look at your YSTR matches as well as these now show the Big Y YSTR results as well.

MitchellSince1893
11-06-2019, 04:25 AM
If you can log into one of the Big Y testers accounts, you can look at the Big Y Block Tree and may be able to see all the Big Y testers shown there. However, FGC12384 is 980 YBP and random statistical variation YSNPs may not show up. You can look at your YSTR matches as well as these now show the Big Y YSTR results as well.
When I go to the FTDNA haplotree to FGC12384, and click on the surname report for FGC12384 there are 2 Mitchells, me and my dad. He has done BigY, I haven't. So I'm on the tree with a single SNP test and without a BigY test.

I can log into all 3 BigY tests on FGC12384 and of course my own Kit.

BigY
Kit 249822: Prior to his Big700 results, 249822 had 2 BigY500 matches. 86098 and 147513. 147513 went away when 249822's BigY700 results came out.
Kit 86098: He matches both 147513 and 249822
Kit 147513: He used to match 249822, but now only matches 86090

111 Markers:
Kit 249822: Only matches 86098 and me at 111 markers (I haven't done BigY but I've done 111 markers)
Kit 86098: Matches 249822, 147513, and me
Kit 147513: Only matches 86098

There is no hidden BigY tester out there making the 4th member of FGC12384 (I wish there was). The 4th member on the tree is me and I've only done single SNP test for FGC12384

Here's the other thing. Prior to 86098's BigY results, he had tested positive for FGC12384 at FTDNA via Z49 SNP pack. At the time there were 4 members on the FGC12384 tree. After his BigY results came out there are still 4 members on tree. If he wasn't included initially then it should have changed to 5 when his BigY results came out.

Everyone who has tested positive for FGC12384 through whatever means at FTDNA is accounted for on the tree. I'm not saying this is true for other parts of the tree.

I also maintain a spreadsheet for FGC12378 (2 levels up from FGC12384). If I go up a level to FGC12401 (below FGC12378 and above FGC12384). FTDNA haplotree says there are 12 kits that are positive for this branch.
4 England
2 US
1 Scotland
1 Italy
1 Hungary
3 Unknown

I know the kit numbers for 10 of the 12. I can see the country of origin for these 10 men and account for them via the country report for FGC123401.

4 England B15049, 249822, 147513, 268283
2 US 2 Unknown kit #s
1 Scotland 43009
1 Italy E14371
1 Hungary 14371
3 Unknown H1732, 209466, 86098

They are all accounted for.

I am not disputing your stats for your branches. If you are only seeing only some BigY tests and no SNP tests, I accept it as true. I'm just pointing out that the same is not true for my branch. All SNP tests and BigY are showing up on the tree.

RobertCasey
11-06-2019, 08:18 AM
BigY
Kit 249822: Prior to his Big700 results, 249822 had 2 BigY500 matches. 86098 and 147513. 147513 went away when 249822's BigY700 results came out.
Kit 86098: He matches both 147513 and 249822
Kit 147513: He used to match 249822, but now only matches 86090

111 Markers:
Kit 249822: Only matches 86098 and me at 111 markers (I haven't done BigY but I've done 111 markers)
Kit 86098: Matches 249822, 147513, and me
Kit 147513: Only matches 86098

There is no hidden BigY tester out there making the 4th member of FGC12384 (I wish there was). The 4th member on the tree is me and I've only done single SNP test for FGC12384

I am not disputing your stats for your branches. If you are only seeing only some BigY tests and no SNP tests, I accept it as true. I'm just pointing out that the same is not true for my branch. All SNP tests and BigY are showing up on the tree.

With your analysis, it does appear that they are probably using some individual YSNP tests in the FTDNA public haplotree. I think I may have solved when individual or SNP packs are used in the public FTDNA haplotree. For DC414 (at the lowest level that requires two testers), there is one Big Y and one individual YSNP test. DC414 shows two testers so it obviously uses the individual YSNP tester as well as the Big Y. This is probably how your individual YSNP got added as well (being the first two testers and one being an individual YSNP test). So we both found individual YSNP tests that were added to the public FTDNA haplotree. What I do not understand is why FTDNA public haplotree is missing several Big Y testers for L226 (under 5 %). Maybe the chart is only updated periodically and may be a week or two behind. For L226, L226 admins now regularly find L226 Big Y testers via YSTR match lists and we now have three or four that fail to respond to recruiting emails to join the L226 project to gain the best analysis.

Good dialogue though. I am not extremely concerned that only ten percent of confirmed and predicted testers are in the FTDNA public haplotree for L226. Of course, FTDNA can not be expected to predict YSNP branches based on YSTR signatures (even though NevGen does an excellent job and it is not the hard to create your own YSNP predictor for your own haplogroup - but few do this). But it is disappointing that FTDNA does not include the vast majority of YSNPs from individual YSNP tests and SNP packs (at least for L226 and I am sure that L226 is not an exception to the rule).

What is really missing from FTDNA functionality is the ability for users or at least admins to increase the hard coded genetic distance for YSTR match lists and hard coded YSNP counts for Big Y Block Tree matches.

TigerMW
11-22-2019, 05:53 PM
If you used only the FTDNA public haplotree, it appears that these only include Big Y testers (it does not appear to updated with all Big Y testers as well but does have most of them). I compared the public FTDNA haplotree for L226 with my spreadsheet summary of L226:

For all confirmed L226 testers - I have 307 from Ireland (includes SNP packs and individually tested YSNPs from FTDNA)
For all Big Y L226 testers - I have 142 from Ireland
The FTDNA public haplotree - has only 137 from Ireland

So these summaries do not include YSNP confirmed testers from SNP packs or individual YSNP tests.
....

It was my understanding that the public haplotree included everyone who was SNP tested. I placed an inquiry into FTDNA to see what they say.

When you look at the haplotree are you assuming the branch line contains all downstream branches. In other words do you think it is a summary of the whole branch or just the asterisk/paragroup people and untested (for downstream SNPs) people?

Tomenable
01-03-2020, 07:36 PM
Here are some updated R1b percentages for 20 Northern & Western European countries. (...)

In Belgium are there big differences between Wallonia and Flanders when it comes to R1b-U106?

MitchellSince1893
01-03-2020, 07:46 PM
In Belgium are there big differences between Wallonia and Flanders when it comes to R1b-U106?

It doesn't go into that level of detail within the FTDNA database, but in the the Brabant study it has the following figures.
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S21.jpg

palamede
01-08-2020, 10:03 AM
It doesn't go into that level of detail within the FTDNA database, but in the the Brabant study it has the following figures.
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Benelux-map-R1b-S21.jpg

Of course the map percentages and their variations (between neighbouring provinces) must be judged according to the number of samples in each province :
Great for Netherlands
Mean for Flemish Belgium
Weak for Wallony/Luxemburg (at the study time (about 10 years ago), the Leuven scholars got difficulties to obtain tests from Walloons)

alejandromb92
01-05-2021, 08:58 PM
Nice work!

Luso
01-05-2021, 09:47 PM
This is really cool. DF27 ofc is most prominent in Iberia, France, and a bit higher up-- but stays strictly (mostly) in the west Atlantic area it seems.

alejandromb92
01-06-2021, 08:51 AM
This is really cool. DF27 ofc is most prominent in Iberia, France, and a bit higher up-- but stays strictly (mostly) in the west Atlantic area it seems.

Both DF27 and L21 are prominent in the Atlantic area, being DF27 more southern shifted and L21 northern shifted. U152 is the one that can be found everywhere, being western shifted of course.

MitchellSince1893
01-06-2021, 03:54 PM
When doing this, I was surprised how much L21 was in the Nordic & Baltic countries, and wondered if it was mostly ancient e.g Bell Beaker related or more related to the Viking Era.



L21 comes in 2nd in every Nordic country (Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark), and strong showing in Latvia (3rd at 29%).

alejandromb92
01-06-2021, 04:33 PM
When doing this, I was surprised how much L21 was in the Nordic & Baltic countries, and wondered if it was mostly ancient e.g Bell Beaker related or more related to the Viking Era.

My theory is that the strong presence of L21 in countries like Norway is mostly due Bell Beakers.