View Full Version : Geo analysis of YP4516 cluster

07-21-2017, 11:04 PM
I did a quick Google map of my own subgroup of Ashkenazi Levites, YP4516.

TMRCA is about 700 years. This fits with a rapid expansion in the partial void left after the Plague.

Somewhere between Bohemia and Warsaw would seem to be a likely point of origin for the MRCA. I put Warsaw on the map because it had, in the Early Modern Period, direct roads leading to most of the towns on the map. Average distance of towns from Warsaw is 450 kilometres. Average rate of human travel before mechanized transport has been estimated at 10 km/year.


07-27-2017, 02:32 PM
Long time follower, first time user.

I'm a marker on your Geo map, the guy from Liepaja (Libau), Latvia (N114654). Some questions about your posting: how come you did not include all the predicted SNPs that Mr. Wexler has posted on his google Levite DNA site? Are not many (if not all) those men with the last name Heimlich from around Hungary?

Also, how did you calculate the MRCA at 700 years? The YFull tree puts YP4516 at 950 ybp. I'm curious because I am with you on the plague as bottle neck hypothesis. Y2630 fits very nicely in with the Justinian plague and its devistation. Your MRCA at 700 would fit the time of the black plague.


07-27-2017, 03:44 PM
Welcome to posting here, cousin, and great questions!

I used an Excel calculator and only the tested YP4516 but even with that, Jeff could be correct at 950 years too, it's within the margin. A post-Plague expansion seems to make most sense given the rough dates but there could have been other factors leading to an expansion farther back.

The predicted YP4516 weren't included just for 100% certainty, but I can definitely run this again with everyone whose STRs make them likely YP4516. It's a great idea. Quite possibly that would add a larger geographic range, and a larger range might push a likely point of common origin to back between Germany, or even France, and Bohemia. Since we are quite possibly not in the "Horowitz man" group, it might not be surprising if our common ancestor were to the west of Bohemia.

I will certainly run this again with all predicted YP4516 when I get the chance!

07-27-2017, 05:02 PM
Thanks for your reply, Cousin

I see on Geni that Mr Gover has posted a tree for R1a-Y2630 Progenitor Halevi. The branches reach down to R1a-YP4156 Progenitor Halevi. And then it reaches down one further to R1a-YP4807,8 Progenitor Halevi (which he dates at 1500 CE). Is there an test to see if I belong to YP4807 too?

07-27-2017, 06:03 PM
I think Yseq offers a test for it. But I could first check to see if you were already sequenced in that area and found negative, or if you weren't covered for that region.

07-27-2017, 06:17 PM

Could you do that check, please

07-27-2017, 09:18 PM
Yes, will do.

01-09-2018, 04:00 PM

Im from Portugal, born and raised, like my 4 previous generations. Im R-M198, with exact match on Z93 (12 markers). Im going to test Z94 to see if theres something at that level or lower.

My match map on FTDNA shows also a few 11/12 levites and also Poland and Lituania. I tried several times to contact you via email to join the Ashlenazi Levite project.


Nuno Meco