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sktibo
08-08-2017, 12:43 AM
With the FTDNA summer sale going on, I'm very tempted to buy the mtDNA full sequence as my mother's maternal line is a mystery / paper trail brick wall. However, I've heard that mtDNA testing doesn't really tell you much and it isn't as straightforward to use as Y DNA is. I really don't know much about it but I would like to know if doing the full mtDNA test would help me uncover my maternal line, and what sort of information I could get from it - any help or input is greatly appreciated... screenshots of tools you get with FTDNA's mt full sequence would be fantastic if you are willing to share that.

C J Wyatt III
08-08-2017, 02:54 AM
With the FTDNA summer sale going on, I'm very tempted to buy the mtDNA full sequence as my mother's maternal line is a mystery / paper trail brick wall. However, I've heard that mtDNA testing doesn't really tell you much and it isn't as straightforward to use as Y DNA is. I really don't know much about it but I would like to know if doing the full mtDNA test would help me uncover my maternal line, and what sort of information I could get from it - any help or input is greatly appreciated... screenshots of tools you get with FTDNA's mt full sequence would be fantastic if you are willing to share that.

What autosomal tests have your mother done?

Jack

sktibo
08-08-2017, 03:15 AM
What autosomal tests have your mother done?

Jack

None yet, I just ordered her an AncestryDNA

C J Wyatt III
08-08-2017, 03:57 AM
None yet, I just ordered her an AncestryDNA

I believe you get a mtDNA haplogroup estimate with that, though it won't be as deep as the full sequencing. FMS usually is not that useful. I'd spend the money on having both Family Finder done for her and 23andMe (which will give you another mtDNA haplogroup estimate). Her DNA would be on file at FTDNA if you ever decided that FMS was needed for her.

Jack

sktibo
08-08-2017, 04:14 AM
I believe you get a mtDNA haplogroup estimate with that, though it won't be as deep as the full sequencing. FMS usually is not that useful. I'd spend the money on having both Family Finder done for her and 23andMe (which will give you another mtDNA haplogroup estimate). Her DNA would be on file at FTDNA if you ever decided that FMS was needed for her.

Jack

Oh I already know we're T2b, I'm considering full sequencing because T2b isn't that defined, I've tested with Geno, 23andme, and LivingDNA, none of which can define it further than that, so it looks like I need full sequencing mtDNA to get a better idea of what our mtDNA group is... Unless it might have an easier time identifying her mtDNA than mine? I'm really curious as to if full sequencing can tell us anything more through matching or other features - I'm hoping for something specific, but I'm not sure if that is a real possibility for mtDNA?

GailT
08-08-2017, 05:22 AM
Oh I already know we're T2b, I'm considering full sequencing because T2b isn't that defined, I've tested with Geno, 23andme,

Have you uploaded your 23andMe results to James Lick's mthap web tool (https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap-new/)? It might give you a more specific subclade of T2b, and that would help determine if it is worthwhile to test the full sequence. In general, mtDNA has a slow mutation rate and is less useful for genealogy, but the mutation rate is highly variable, and some people have more recent mutations than others, and in some cases it can be useful for finding a country of origin and matches that might share a common maternal ancestor in the last several hundred years. For people who have fewer recent mutations, the results are much less specific.

sktibo
08-08-2017, 05:35 AM
Have you uploaded your 23andMe results to James Lick's mthap web tool (https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap-new/)? It might give you a more specific subclade of T2b, and that would help determine if it is worthwhile to test the full sequence. In general, mtDNA has a slow mutation rate and is less useful for genealogy, but the mutation rate is highly variable, and some people have more recent mutations than others, and in some cases it can be useful for finding a country of origin and matches that might share a common maternal ancestor in the last several hundred years. For people who have fewer recent mutations, the results are much less specific.

To be honest I have tried and I don't really understand the results that it gave me, and I haven't found an instructions page for how to interpret it either... it tells me "Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup" under every listed result; I'll post it here in case someone can help me understand what it is. I should also mention that ftdna by way of geno 2.0 NG gives me T2b-T152C!

1) T2b
2) T2b24
2) T2b26
2) T2b(T152C)
2) T2b35
2) T2b21
3) T2b17
3) T2b(T16362C)
3) T2b37
3) T2b30
3) T2b(C150T)
3) T2b31
3) T2b13
3) T2b3
3) T2b27
3) T2b36
3) T2b7
3) T2b1
3) T2b2
3) T2b19
3) T2b5
3) T2b4
3) T2b8

Robert1
08-08-2017, 06:18 AM
I've had full sequence mtDNA tests done on my wife and me. I got 28 matches but none closer than GD 2. My wife got 206 matches and 53 were at GD 0! But so far the extra matches haven't panned out, no common ancestors detected for either of us. So for the time being we just got detailed haplogroups, she's H7 and I'm K1a4a1a - but we do have our fishing nets out in case that miracle fish swims by! And the test is at good sale price now.

I thought about testing my mother instead of myself but hated to bother her with another test, after all she's 94! It shouldn't matter which one of us tested.

All in all I'm not sorry we tested but for most people this test returns little of your investment. Now Y STR 111 markers and the Big Y I will sing praises of, with them I was able to identify my Y line great grandfather!

MacUalraig
08-08-2017, 11:49 AM
With the FTDNA summer sale going on, I'm very tempted to buy the mtDNA full sequence as my mother's maternal line is a mystery / paper trail brick wall. However, I've heard that mtDNA testing doesn't really tell you much and it isn't as straightforward to use as Y DNA is. I really don't know much about it but I would like to know if doing the full mtDNA test would help me uncover my maternal line, and what sort of information I could get from it - any help or input is greatly appreciated... screenshots of tools you get with FTDNA's mt full sequence would be fantastic if you are willing to share that.

Highly unlikely it will help your family tree but still nice to have the data. If you do please submit it to Genbank for posterity, and for the attention of scientists :-)

This is my submission as an example:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/KY849397

Judith
08-10-2017, 08:52 PM
With the FTDNA summer sale going on, I'm very tempted to buy the mtDNA full sequence as my mother's maternal line is a mystery / paper trail brick wall. However, I've heard that mtDNA testing doesn't really tell you much and it isn't as straightforward to use as Y DNA is. I really don't know much about it but I would like to know if doing the full mtDNA test would help me uncover my maternal line, and what sort of information I could get from it - any help or input is greatly appreciated... screenshots of tools you get with FTDNA's mt full sequence would be fantastic if you are willing to share that.

I am deeply interested in what mtDNA result testing give, but it has not helped my maternal family tree much at all. What will help you is to test some of your mothers maternal cousins/aunts and compare with her autosomal DNA. Armed with your cousins's results you will be able to work out in which part of her tree her matches are. Sorry to state this if you already know this stuff. It has not helped my maternal line either in my case!

From your OP this is what your results will look like (mine attached) and I have 131 matches at GD=3, i.e. 131 people where our common ancestor is 3 mutations away and that is several thousand years ago (mtDNA has a wide variation in mutation rates)
18059

sktibo
08-10-2017, 09:18 PM
I am deeply interested in what mtDNA result testing give, but it has not helped my maternal family tree much at all. What will help you is to test some of your mothers maternal cousins/aunts and compare with her autosomal DNA. Armed with your cousins's results you will be able to work out in which part of her tree her matches are. Sorry to state this if you already know this stuff. It has not helped my maternal line either in my case!

From your OP this is what your results will look like (mine attached) and I have 131 matches at GD=3, i.e. 131 people where our common ancestor is 3 mutations away and that is several thousand years ago (mtDNA has a wide variation in mutation rates)
18059

Thank you so much, this is precisely what I was hoping to see. Unfortunately I can't get in contact with any relatives on my mother's side of the family, but I am in the process of having her DNA tested with Ancestry DNA so hopefully that will answer my questions. I was hoping deep mtDNA testing would be akin to Y DNA testing but unfortunately it appears to be much less useful. Thanks again!

Dewsloth
08-10-2017, 10:32 PM
Mine gave me a big fat mystery as to what a practically Baltic J2a1a1e was doing in Lebanon in the 1800s... Distant French/Italian ancestor, maybe?

HVR1, HVR2, AND CODING REGION MATCHES

GENETIC DISTANCE --1
Haplogroup Country Comments Match Total
J2a1a1e 1
J2a1a1e Denmark - 3
J2a1a1e France - 2
J2a1a1e Germany - 5
J2a1a1e Italy - 2
J2a1a1e Lithuania - 1
J2a1a1e Norway - 9
J2a1a1e Poland - 1
J2a1a1e Russian Federation - 1
J2a1a1e Sweden - 3
J2a1a1e Switzerland - 2
J2a1a1e Syrian Arab Republic - 1
J2a1a1e United Kingdom - 1
J2a1a1e United States - 1

C J Wyatt III
08-10-2017, 10:42 PM
Mine gave me a big fat mystery as to what a practically Baltic J2a1a1e was doing in Lebanon in the 1800s... Distant French/Italian ancestor, maybe?


The credit might belong to the Barbary Pirates.

Jack

Jenny
08-12-2017, 08:43 AM
I've done a full sequence test and have four exact matches. My maternal grandmother is from Finland. Even though it's a small population, my matches and I can't trace back to a historical woman. But I still think it's a great way to trace demographics though

C J Wyatt III
08-12-2017, 01:17 PM
I've done a full sequence test and have four exact matches. My maternal grandmother is from Finland. Even though it's a small population, my matches and I can't trace back to a historical woman. But I still think it's a great way to trace demographics though

Are some matches from places other than Finland?

I think that I have posted this link before but it is appropriate to this discussion:

https://mikedashhistory.com/2015/01/15/blonde-cargoes-finnish-children-in-the-slave-markets-of-medieval-crimea/

Also I do not know if the Barbary Pirates raided as far away as Finland, but they did hit Iceland a few times. I believe the Icelandic population was somewhat mixed, but I do not know if it included Finn's.

Jack Wyatt

Saetro
08-12-2017, 08:45 PM
I've done a full sequence test and have four exact matches. My maternal grandmother is from Finland. Even though it's a small population, my matches and I can't trace back to a historical woman. But I still think it's a great way to trace demographics though

Agree totally. It can be good for regionality - and more specific than most ethnicity tests.
I have a similar experience, with close mtDNA matches linking to Cornwall/Devon.

There was an unexpected bonus.
One of my matches' oldest known ancestors had a rare name.
Looked her up, and her husband also had a rare name from a one name study with a good tree.
We turned out to have a common ancestor born circa 1480.
Checking GEDmatch found someone else with my mtDNA haplogroup who had the same connection.
The two descendants from that other line had tested with different labs and only one was at GEDmatch.
It was a big surprise for them when I told them they were cousins with each other.

deadly77
08-12-2017, 10:46 PM
Hey Sktibo, I've done full sequence mtDNA at FTDNA. I hoped it was going to help me somewhat with one of my brick walls on my matrilineal line which right now gets me back to my great-great-grandmother and her sister. They both list themselves as born in Scotland on every England census that I find them on, and their father deceased on both of their marriage certificates. Struggling to find evidence of them earlier than that, however.

Full sequence refined my mt haplogroup from J1c1 at 23andme to J1c1b2. Running through the James Lick mtDNA tool also confirmed J1c1b2 and an extra private mutation. I got 31 full sequence (HVR1, HVR2, coding regions) matches at FTDNA - 2 with GD 0, 3 with GD 1, 18 with GD2 and the rest with GD 3 (I guess that's the threshold). None of these people appear to have a common ancestor with me on that line so it is likely that the connection is further back in time. I'm not sure if FTDNA includes non-phlyogenetic markers that are known to occur to often or change too quickly (eg. 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C 522- 523- 524- 16182C 16183C 16193.1C 16193.2C 16519C) in their GD calculations.

The more I learned about mtDNA, the more I learned about it's relatively slow mutation rate. Behar's 2012 paper estimates the age of my maternal haplogroup to be 2,952.9 2,242.7 years ago. That's (i) a fair while ago and (ii) a large variance. However, while the low mutation rate may not be great for ancestry purposes, it is good for us as functioning human beings. The part of the Y chromosome that can be sequenced is 59,373,566 bases long and the Y chromosome itself doesn't do a lot apart from determine gender, so the majority of mutations don't affect it's function so much. Mitochondrial DNA is much smaller at only 16,569 bases long so there's less opportunity for diversity. Furthermore, mitochondria are responsible for converting food into energy for our cells, and also contain ribosomal RNA and transfer RNA for constructing proteins. It's probably a good thing that those don't get mutated too much so as not to interfere with their function.

My mt haplogroup is not especially common - eight J1c1b2 sequences on Genbank out of ~33,000, and only two of those with my extra mutation. I submitted my sequence data to Genbank hoping that in future it leads to further definition of a subclade downstream from J1c1b2 as well as refine the age estimate.

So did it help me with my genealogy research and breaking through a brick wall? No, not really. But I did learn a lot from reading about about mtDNA and early population migrations, and my sequence is out there on FTDNA and Genbank for future testers to compare to. I think it will work best at dis-confirming potential matches on that line, rather than finding matches. If you want to see screenshots or have any questions, feel free to ask.

sktibo
08-12-2017, 11:22 PM
Hey Sktibo, I've done full sequence mtDNA at FTDNA. I hoped it was going to help me somewhat with one of my brick walls on my matrilineal line which right now gets me back to my great-great-grandmother and her sister. They both list themselves as born in Scotland on every England census that I find them on, and their father deceased on both of their marriage certificates. Struggling to find evidence of them earlier than that, however.

Full sequence refined my mt haplogroup from J1c1 at 23andme to J1c1b2. Running through the James Lick mtDNA tool also confirmed J1c1b2 and an extra private mutation. I got 31 full sequence (HVR1, HVR2, coding regions) matches at FTDNA - 2 with GD 0, 3 with GD 1, 18 with GD2 and the rest with GD 3 (I guess that's the threshold). None of these people appear to have a common ancestor with me on that line so it is likely that the connection is further back in time. I'm not sure if FTDNA includes non-phlyogenetic markers that are known to occur to often or change too quickly (eg. 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C 522- 523- 524- 16182C 16183C 16193.1C 16193.2C 16519C) in their GD calculations.

The more I learned about mtDNA, the more I learned about it's relatively slow mutation rate. Behar's 2012 paper estimates the age of my maternal haplogroup to be 2,952.9 2,242.7 years ago. That's (i) a fair while ago and (ii) a large variance. However, while the low mutation rate may not be great for ancestry purposes, it is good for us as functioning human beings. The part of the Y chromosome that can be sequenced is 59,373,566 bases long and the Y chromosome itself doesn't do a lot apart from determine gender, so the majority of mutations don't affect it's function so much. Mitochondrial DNA is much smaller at only 16,569 bases long so there's less opportunity for diversity. Furthermore, mitochondria are responsible for converting food into energy for our cells, and also contain ribosomal RNA and transfer RNA for constructing proteins. It's probably a good thing that those don't get mutated too much so as not to interfere with their function.

My mt haplogroup is not especially common - eight J1c1b2 sequences on Genbank out of ~33,000, and only two of those with my extra mutation. I submitted my sequence data to Genbank hoping that in future it leads to further definition of a subclade downstream from J1c1b2 as well as refine the age estimate.

So did it help me with my genealogy research and breaking through a brick wall? No, not really. But I did learn a lot from reading about about mtDNA and early population migrations, and my sequence is out there on FTDNA and Genbank for future testers to compare to. I think it will work best at dis-confirming potential matches on that line, rather than finding matches. If you want to see screenshots or have any questions, feel free to ask.

Thank you so much for taking the time to share that with me, that's very interesting and I think you make a particularly good point about it potentially being something for the future. One day I'd like to get mine done, but it's hard to justify spending the cash on it when I know now it won't help with my paper trail

deadly77
08-13-2017, 05:13 PM
Yeah, unfortunately you won't be able to predict how useful it will be towards genealogy until you do it. However, it seems that most of what I've read for most people it's not been very helpful for recent ancestry. However, there's always exceptions.

Going back to your analysis of the mtDNA using James Lick's mthap tool, he does have a FAQ here: https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/FAQ.html

I found it most useful when I understood what the colour codes of the SNPs referred to - main ones are green for a match (SNP phylogenetic to that haplogroup), red for a mismatch, blue for an "extra" (SNP not associated with how the haplogroup is defined on the current build of the phylotree). Also that markers in parentheses are not used for scoring as they are non-phylogenetic or uncertain, such as mutating too frequently.

It assigned my FTDNA full sequence data as J1c1b2 with a good match and imperfect match for J1c12ba as I don't have the defining markers. Maybe the extra mutation will define J1c1b2b/c/d in the future.

The tool wasn't so conclusive with my 23andme data (which it looks like is the same in your case). The best it does is J1c1 and all the downstream clades it has either mismatches or in most cases, markers not tested. I guess any predictor is only as good as the data that it's analyzing.

Dewsloth
08-13-2017, 06:08 PM
Besides my (and my Mom's) haplotype mystery, the mtDNA testing was useful in independently confirming (or at least not refuting) my Dad's matrilineal descent from Elizabeth Walker Warren (the only woman to be listed as a "Purchaser" in the Plymouth colony).

Saetro
08-14-2017, 05:18 AM
The more I learned about mtDNA, the more I learned about it's relatively slow mutation rate. Behar's 2012 paper estimates the age of my maternal haplogroup to be 2,952.9 2,242.7 years ago. That's (i) a fair while ago and (ii) a large variance.

My mt haplogroup is not especially common - eight J1c1b2 sequences on Genbank out of ~33,000, and only two of those with my extra mutation. I submitted my sequence data to Genbank hoping that in future it leads to further definition of a subclade downstream from J1c1b2 as well as refine the age estimate.

Hey, deadly77.
A very thoughtful contribution.
It is certainly the work on these sub-clades that will edge the times for groups towards the time since surnames became common in western Europe.
(Yes, I know that might not be much use when they change every generation, but some surnames link to locations and that can help.)
Y-DNA has benefited greatly from sub-clade analysis.
It is very recent in mtDNA, but results in the last few years have moved my mtDNA results from being connected with about a third of Europe, to the Celtic British Isles, and now down to two counties.
All as more results come in and sub-clades of more specificity can be defined.

A Norfolk L-M20
08-14-2017, 06:22 AM
As a British H6a1a8, I'd love to hear more @Saetro.

MacUalraig
08-14-2017, 06:40 AM
Hey, deadly77.
A very thoughtful contribution.
It is certainly the work on these sub-clades that will edge the times for groups towards the time since surnames became common in western Europe.
(Yes, I know that might not be much use when they change every generation, but some surnames link to locations and that can help.)
Y-DNA has benefited greatly from sub-clade analysis.
It is very recent in mtDNA, but results in the last few years have moved my mtDNA results from being connected with about a third of Europe, to the Celtic British Isles, and now down to two counties.
All as more results come in and sub-clades of more specificity can be defined.

I am also curious to hear more like which counties and how many samples total this is based on? My origins are still spread over a big chunk of central/east Europe.

Jenny
08-14-2017, 12:26 PM
Yes but there're only in Scandinavia. White blob= my grandmother 18144

Judith
08-14-2017, 01:18 PM
Mine gave me a big fat mystery as to what a practically Baltic J2a1a1e was doing in Lebanon in the 1800s... Distant French/Italian ancestor, maybe?

1
I would guess Viking slave traders from your distribution, and from the number of Constantinople silver pieces found in Gotland, and the Arab writings about the Scandinavians. After all the English word for slave comes from Slavic, the lands were the source of many women in the markets.

JMcB
08-14-2017, 03:35 PM
As a British H6a1a8, I'd love to hear more @Saetro.

Ditto!

jjensen6
08-26-2017, 06:19 PM
I'm afraid I don't have any insights into the OP, but some questions I have are somewhat related so I thought I'd post here, rather than starting a separate thread. I apologize if this was a bad call.

Pretty much, what I'm wondering is, as an adoptee with (more likely than not) no paper trail to go off of, what can I "expect" to get out of full sequence mtDNA testing? Will it help me differentiate which ethnicities, based on auDNA testing, I got from my mothers side and by default (assuming they are different), which I got from my father's side? Will it give the same regional range as auDNA testing or is it even more narrowed down? Can it potential help me find out which side (assuming it's only one), that my Jewish heritage comes from?

I'm sorry if these are obvious questions. If I do go with the full sequence mtDNA with FTDNA, I just want to make sure I do it with my eyes wide open, unlike I did with the auDNA testing, which I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the different results.

And apologies again to the OP. I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to take over the thread, because that's not my intent.

Saetro
08-27-2017, 02:11 AM
As a British H6a1a8, I'd love to hear more @Saetro.

Dear A Norfolk L-M20, MacUalraig, JMcB,

My thrust was that although this was lucky for me, chances for others would be raised greatly by:
1) Test your full mtDNA
2) Join your Haplogroup Portal Project or main Project group
3) Join any relevant sub-clade Project
4) Work with your Project admins and/or close matches to see if there are sub-groups not yet categorised.
(Only the Project admins can see all of the DNA, but you can do quite a bit with what is disclosed and the geographical and tree analysis.)
I, foolishly, timidly, or distractedly, had stood back from further analysis until a newbie contacted some close matches and suggested we could do something about looking into this.
In retrospect, the admins had done the heavy lifting, but we needed this additional step to sort some things out for our tiny few.

Tree analysis had a strange additional serendipitous benefit, which I think I may have mentioned.
Y-Projects have often undertaken this sort of effort with some useful benefits.
Some mtDNA links will be soluble, some won't.
It certainly won't happen for mtDNA if no-one tries it.

And please share similar successes/problems as it helps us all.

Admittedly, improved regional autosomal DNA analysis can help, but if you already have a full mtDNA analysis, why not get the most out of it?
Even our more distant matches over Britain and Ireland suggested that our upper sub-clade looks like being Celtic-connected.
The finer definition to Cornwall/Devon of the sub-sub clade was wonderful for more recent history, but the deeper history is also worth having.

A Norfolk L-M20
08-27-2017, 07:04 AM
RE: I'm H6a1a8 my earliest recorded maternal line ancestor was a 6 x great grandmother that lived here in Norfolk.


Dear A Norfolk L-M20, MacUalraig, JMcB,

My thrust was that although this was lucky for me, chances for others would be raised greatly by:
1) Test your full mtDNA
2) Join your Haplogroup Portal Project or main Project group
3) Join any relevant sub-clade Project
4) Work with your Project admins and/or close matches to see if there are sub-groups not yet categorised.
(Only the Project admins can see all of the DNA, but you can do quite a bit with what is disclosed and the geographical and tree analysis.)
I, foolishly, timidly, or distractedly, had stood back from further analysis until a newbie contacted some close matches and suggested we could do something about looking into this.
In retrospect, the admins had done the heavy lifting, but we needed this additional step to sort some things out for our tiny few.

Tree analysis had a strange additional serendipitous benefit, which I think I may have mentioned.
Y-Projects have often undertaken this sort of effort with some useful benefits.
Some mtDNA links will be soluble, some won't.
It certainly won't happen for mtDNA if no-one tries it.

And please share similar successes/problems as it helps us all.

Admittedly, improved regional autosomal DNA analysis can help, but if you already have a full mtDNA analysis, why not get the most out of it?
Even our more distant matches over Britain and Ireland suggested that our upper sub-clade looks like being Celtic-connected.
The finer definition to Cornwall/Devon of the sub-sub clade was wonderful for more recent history, but the deeper history is also worth having.

Thank you Saetro.

Unfortunately I've tried all of those steps already. I tested FT-DNA mtFull Sequence. I submitted them to the H and HV mtDNA Hg Project, and to the H6mtGenome Project. However, that was 12 months ago. In all of that time, my results, and many hundreds of other results, even though not private, remain in the ungrouped category. The groups appear to be dead and abandoned. The H & HV Project was too ambitious, but the H6mtGenome Project insists on membership of both. There are no further H6a1 groups that I could join.

In the grouped section, those lucky enough to be admitted over a year ago, there is only one H6a1a8, provenanced in the USA, and an H6a1a8a provenanced to Wales. I'm the only H6a1a8 in the un-grouped category, although there is an H6a1a8a provenanced to Finland.

From that I can deduct nothing! Any help would be appreciated.

MacUalraig
08-27-2017, 09:59 AM
Dear A Norfolk L-M20, MacUalraig, JMcB,

My thrust was that although this was lucky for me, chances for others would be raised greatly by:
1) Test your full mtDNA
2) Join your Haplogroup Portal Project or main Project group
3) Join any relevant sub-clade Project
4) Work with your Project admins and/or close matches to see if there are sub-groups not yet categorised.
(Only the Project admins can see all of the DNA, but you can do quite a bit with what is disclosed and the geographical and tree analysis.)
I, foolishly, timidly, or distractedly, had stood back from further analysis until a newbie contacted some close matches and suggested we could do something about looking into this.
In retrospect, the admins had done the heavy lifting, but we needed this additional step to sort some things out for our tiny few.

Tree analysis had a strange additional serendipitous benefit, which I think I may have mentioned.
Y-Projects have often undertaken this sort of effort with some useful benefits.
Some mtDNA links will be soluble, some won't.
It certainly won't happen for mtDNA if no-one tries it.

And please share similar successes/problems as it helps us all.

Admittedly, improved regional autosomal DNA analysis can help, but if you already have a full mtDNA analysis, why not get the most out of it?
Even our more distant matches over Britain and Ireland suggested that our upper sub-clade looks like being Celtic-connected.
The finer definition to Cornwall/Devon of the sub-sub clade was wonderful for more recent history, but the deeper history is also worth having.

Best hope is some scientist tests for your markers - submit to Genbank (help on Ian Logan's website) and it may end up on the official mtDNA tree.

So far I am about the only Brit in my hg so no idea how we came by it. Since my trail ends in a rural farming community in Lincolnshire which is listed in the Domesday Book I tend to conclude we've been there a long time but that could be wrong of course. There was significant Roman settlement nearby so arriving with the Romans used to be a pet theory of mine (or wishful thinking!). Maybe when they test all the remains from the Roman cemetery I will have a breakthrough.

Basta
08-27-2017, 10:30 AM
I have 5 matches total, 4 GD 1, 1 GD 0.

A Norfolk L-M20
08-28-2017, 09:17 PM
Best hope is some scientist tests for your markers - submit to Genbank (help on Ian Logan's website) and it may end up on the official mtDNA tree.

So far I am about the only Brit in my hg so no idea how we came by it. Since my trail ends in a rural farming community in Lincolnshire which is listed in the Domesday Book I tend to conclude we've been there a long time but that could be wrong of course. There was significant Roman settlement nearby so arriving with the Romans used to be a pet theory of mine (or wishful thinking!). Maybe when they test all the remains from the Roman cemetery I will have a breakthrough.

Thank you. I've compiled a submission file request from Ian Logan, and emailed it to him. If all is well, and he replies, then I'll submit to GENBANK. I don't know if it can help me ascertain origins of H6a1a8.


Hey, deadly77.
It is very recent in mtDNA, but results in the last few years have moved my mtDNA results from being connected with about a third of Europe, to the Celtic British Isles, and now down to two counties.
All as more results come in and sub-clades of more specificity can be defined.

I'm still curious to know how @Saetro gained so much information on his H6a1, when I can't gain as much detail on my H6a1a8. Saetro, is there more to your mt haplogroup? Did you manage to process a submission to the FT-DNA projects while they were still functioning? Did you perhaps find an alternative H6a1 project that I've missed. I'd appreciate any help that you can give me please. Both the H & HV, and the mtH6Genome project appear to have been abandoned for at least a year.

Solothurn
08-29-2017, 02:27 AM
I am walled on my mum's line (1845 in Salford, England) and I hoped the FMS would open a door or two.

I turned out to be H1c3b and have 92 matches (21 0GD) most from Scandinavia. It is said to be 1,000 yrs old with its origin in Scandinavia.

No door has opened as yet but hopefully soon :behindsofa:

BTW my kit is a GenBank example (GU289555) :)
http://www.thecid.com/mtdnatree/ppl/d/d/d420cc4e5ee21eef7fdad0e10dd.html





With the FTDNA summer sale going on, I'm very tempted to buy the mtDNA full sequence as my mother's maternal line is a mystery / paper trail brick wall. However, I've heard that mtDNA testing doesn't really tell you much and it isn't as straightforward to use as Y DNA is. I really don't know much about it but I would like to know if doing the full mtDNA test would help me uncover my maternal line, and what sort of information I could get from it - any help or input is greatly appreciated... screenshots of tools you get with FTDNA's mt full sequence would be fantastic if you are willing to share that.

deadly77
08-29-2017, 06:21 AM
Thank you. I've compiled a submission file request from Ian Logan, and emailed it to him. If all is well, and he replies, then I'll submit to GENBANK. I don't know if it can help me ascertain origins of H6a1a8.



I'm still curious to know how @Saetro gained so much information on his H6a1, when I can't gain as much detail on my H6a1a8. Saetro, is there more to your mt haplogroup? Did you manage to process a submission to the FT-DNA projects while they were still functioning? Did you perhaps find an alternative H6a1 project that I've missed. I'd appreciate any help that you can give me please. Both the H & HV, and the mtH6Genome project appear to have been abandoned for at least a year.

I found Ian Logan to be very helpful - he responded very quickly and I was able to follow his instructions and submit to Genbank. You'll get a couple of emails from Genbank which are essentially "Are you sure you want to do this?" and then it gets added to their database. Your name isn't on there, but your FTDNA kit number is.

Before you submit, I'd recommend that you run your SNPs through mitomap at https://www.mitomap.org/MITOMAP just to see that you don't disclose any SNPs linked to medical issues. I'm from England originally where I think this is perhaps less of an issue but now I live in the USA where there seems to be a bigger focus. I also ordered a report from Ann Turner which I found very useful at explaining the function and phylogenetics of my mtDNA. It didn't go into the geographical detail that you're looking at from Saetro, but it was well written and in my opinion worth the small fee I paid for it. Details and link to a sample report here https://isogg.org/wiki/Custom_mitochondrial_DNA_reports

Looking on here http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/h6a1a3-10_genbank_sequences.htmI was only able to find a couple of people who were H6a1a8 - a couple of 23andme files from "Polyanna" and "East Anglian" - they appear to be submissions from OpenSNP although perhaps the latter is yourself.

All the best - I think perhaps there will be more mtDNA out there in the future as the price of whole genome/NGS drops in price.

deadly77
08-29-2017, 06:42 AM
I'm afraid I don't have any insights into the OP, but some questions I have are somewhat related so I thought I'd post here, rather than starting a separate thread. I apologize if this was a bad call.

Pretty much, what I'm wondering is, as an adoptee with (more likely than not) no paper trail to go off of, what can I "expect" to get out of full sequence mtDNA testing? Will it help me differentiate which ethnicities, based on auDNA testing, I got from my mothers side and by default (assuming they are different), which I got from my father's side? Will it give the same regional range as auDNA testing or is it even more narrowed down? Can it potential help me find out which side (assuming it's only one), that my Jewish heritage comes from?

I'm sorry if these are obvious questions. If I do go with the full sequence mtDNA with FTDNA, I just want to make sure I do it with my eyes wide open, unlike I did with the auDNA testing, which I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the different results.

And apologies again to the OP. I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to take over the thread, because that's not my intent.

It's important to bear in mind that the mtDNA only gives you one line one your mother's side - your mother's mother's mother's, etc. A bit like the Y chromosome on the parental line. So the mtDNA won't give any information about other lines from your mother's side, such as your mother's father and his ancestors for example and you can extend that to your mother's mother's father and his ancestors. So I wouldn't say that you can use it to rule out all non matches as being on your father's side. You don't get ethnicity percentages in the same way that you get for autosomal testing. FTDNA will provide a map of your matches and their earliest known ancestor, but not everyone fills that in. You'll get a migration map of the haplogroup.

jjensen6
08-29-2017, 08:07 PM
It's important to bear in mind that the mtDNA only gives you one line one your mother's side - your mother's mother's mother's, etc. A bit like the Y chromosome on the parental line. So the mtDNA won't give any information about other lines from your mother's side, such as your mother's father and his ancestors for example and you can extend that to your mother's mother's father and his ancestors. So I wouldn't say that you can use it to rule out all non matches as being on your father's side. You don't get ethnicity percentages in the same way that you get for autosomal testing. FTDNA will provide a map of your matches and their earliest known ancestor, but not everyone fills that in. You'll get a migration map of the haplogroup.

Thanks so much for the reply! That makes a lot of sense. I just feel like I've hit a brick wall and was hoping to get some more insights while I wait for closer matches to come in. Could still be interesting just to know, though....Thanks again for the help!

Pylsteen
01-16-2018, 12:53 AM
I have my FMS results now; W5a2. Not many matches; they are German, Danish. One German with GD0. What does it mean? According to FTDNA, GD0 means 95% chance of sharing the ancestor within 22 generations (ca. 550y). Is this still the case? I have heard others saying the rate of mutation is much slower.

msmarjoribanks
01-19-2018, 10:27 PM
I have my FMS results now; W5a2. Not many matches; they are German, Danish. One German with GD0. What does it mean? According to FTDNA, GD0 means 95% chance of sharing the ancestor within 22 generations (ca. 550y). Is this still the case? I have heard others saying the rate of mutation is much slower.

It can be, hard to say.

I have a FamilyFinder match (haven't identified the connection yet, mainly because she doesn't have the line back far, but we do go to the same area) who has a 1GD difference -- one of her ancestors had an additional mutation since our MRCA's time.

On the other hand, my father has several matches who go back to the same woman (his matrilineal line is traced back a woman in Suffolk in the 1500s), and a few others who share common ancestors a bit more recently. BUT, he also has a GD0 match who goes back to Germany in the 1800s and one (new) who goes back to Norway in the 1700s, so that indicates a MRCA quite a bit more than 22 generations ago.

Saetro
01-19-2018, 11:34 PM
I have my FMS results now; W5a2. Not many matches; they are German, Danish. One German with GD0. What does it mean? According to FTDNA, GD0 means 95% chance of sharing the ancestor within 22 generations (ca. 550y). Is this still the case? I have heard others saying the rate of mutation is much slower.

Agree with msmarjoribanks.
Really, the approach is the same as for aDNA matches at the most basic:
contact your closest matches,
try to work out where a match might be,
if possible see if you can narrow the geographical area (you already have a smaller area to work with than many of us),
try to extend your own tree along the all-female line,
if necessary, work on your matches' all-female line yourself (You may need to do much of this secretly. Most people like to do the research themselves and don't like others pointing out their mistakes. So be gentle with your matches.)

Finally, if you happen to find the husband of someone in an all-female line looks interesting, go off-piste and research them instead for a while.
That might turn out useful for its own sake, or it may shed further light on your all-female line.

maydonez
03-11-2018, 06:49 PM
I am curious as well, if a full sequence would help me.
I have been misplaced to T2b by 23andme and then I found out through various methods that I am actually a close match to T2f4. Yet, it is not a perfect match. I have more extras(27) than matches(18).
I will get this test to my mum but there are two things that's nibbling my mind.
First, why do I have so many mismatches(it is more than anyone's on GenBank for example)?
Secondly, am I even going to find a true spot instead of all these unplaceable mutations?
I would appreciate any comment on this.

It looks like all the mutations I have are different for a match to any defined T2f subclade, though, they all match me to T2f4 at first.

My best match:
1) T2f4

Defining Markers for haplogroup T2f4:
HVR2: 73G 263G
CR: 709A 750G 1438G 1888A 2706G 4216C 4769G 4917G 6392C 7028T 8270T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8697A 8860G 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 13368A 14233G 14766T 14905A 15326G 15452A 15607G 15928A
HVR1: 16126C 16189C 16294T (16296T)

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup T2f4 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 709A 1888A 4917G 8697A 10463C 13368A 14905A 15607G 15928A 16294T ⇨ T ⇨ 11812G 14233G (16296T) ⇨ T2 ⇨ 16189C ⇨ T2(T16189C) ⇨ 8270T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- ⇨ T2f ⇨ 6392C ⇨ T2f4 ⇨ 65D 191D 299I 459D 613G 1646G 2074I 2156D 2405D 3377G 3734G 3947G 4296A 4317I 4410T 5533G 5537D 5752D 5815T 7471D 7527A 7672T 8364G 12184G 12208G 14053G 15198T

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(18): 73G 263G 1438G 1888A 2706G 4917G 6392C 7028T 8697A 8860G 10463C 11251G 11719A 11812G 15607G 15928A 16126C (16296T)
Flips(3): 8281D 8286D 15452T
Extras(27): 65D 191D 299I 459D 613G 1646G 2074I 2156D 2405D 3377G 3734G 3947G 4296A 4317I 4410T 5533G 5537D 5752D 5815T 7471D 7527A 7672T 8364G 12184G 12208G 14053G 15198T
No-Calls(1): 14233G
Untested(18): 709 750 4216 4769 8270 8282 8283 8284 8285 8287 8288 8289 13368 14766 14905 15326 16189 16294