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Scott
08-13-2017, 02:42 AM
I am trying to figure out how I should interpret my Dad's Iberian percentage. He showed as 15% (6-24%) Iberian on AncestryDNA and 15.4% Iberian on MyHeritage. I am not aware of his having ancestors from Spain or Portugal (although there are a few gaps on the tree). My Dad has a significant amount of German ancestry and some Swiss and French ancestry. Is this Iberian percentage indicative of his having a somewhat recent ancestor from Spain or Portugal or is it more likely connected to his French ancestry? I am leaning towards the latter but would welcome any thoughts on this.

sktibo
08-13-2017, 03:37 AM
I am trying to figure out how I should interpret my Dad's Iberian percentage. He showed as 15% (6-24%) Iberian on AncestryDNA and 15.4% Iberian on MyHeritage. I am not aware of his having ancestors from Spain or Portugal (although there are a few gaps on the tree). My Dad has a significant amount of German ancestry and some Swiss and French ancestry. Is this Iberian percentage indicative of his having a somewhat recent ancestor from Spain or Portugal or is it more likely connected to his French ancestry? I am leaning towards the latter but would welcome any thoughts on this.

I'm part French and myself and my relatives who I have tested on Ancestry and MyHeritage get Iberian percentages which are in line with known French ancestry. You'll note on MyHeritage the highlighted regions for "Iberia" cover France also.

Targum
08-13-2017, 03:46 AM
I get 5% Southwestern European" on Geneplaza and I get minor North African on 23andme are these related?

JMcB
08-13-2017, 03:20 PM
I'm part French and myself and my relatives who I have tested on Ancestry and MyHeritage get Iberian percentages which are in line with known French ancestry. You'll note on MyHeritage the highlighted regions for "Iberia" cover France also.



It's funny, Ancestry gave me 10% Iberian and I have no idea where it comes from. I'm primarily, English, Scottish and Irish (approximately 88%) with a little Italian and German thrown in (approximately 12%). So I've been working under the assumption that they're picking up on an ancient connection between Iberia and the British Isles or they're just plain wrong.

In my case, their results only make sense if I go back a couple of thousand years and even then, it's a stretch.

sktibo
08-13-2017, 05:51 PM
It's funny, Ancestry gave me 10% Iberian and I have no idea where it comes from. I'm primarily, English, Scottish and Irish (approximately 88%) with a little Italian and German thrown in (approximately 12%). So I've been working under the assumption that they're picking up on an ancient connection between Iberia and the British Isles or they're just plain wrong.

In my case, their results only make sense if I go back a couple of thousand years and even then, it's a stretch.

Might also just be plain wrong

JMcB
08-13-2017, 08:54 PM
Might also just be plain wrong

Yes, I suspect so. Fortunately, I like some of the other things they have to offer and I didn't need their results to confirm anything. Nevertheless, they do come in at the bottom of my list as far as accuracy is concerned.

Don Felipe
08-14-2017, 09:07 AM
My Dad has a significant amount of German ancestry and some Swiss and French ancestry. Is this Iberian percentage indicative of his having a somewhat recent ancestor from Spain or Portugal or is it more likely connected to his French ancestry? I am leaning towards the latter but would welcome any thoughts on this.

In absence of any documented family ties with either Spain or Portugal i would also assume it's connected with his French ancestry. From the few French results i have seen this socalled "Iberian Peninsula" region might especially be prevalent among southwestern French, which makes sense geographically speaking (it appears to peak among Basque people according to this sheet (https://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/ncomms/2017/170207/ncomms14238/extref/ncomms14238-s4.xlsx)). However in fact it seems to be reported in other areas of France as well, i have also seen substantial amounts being reported for French Canadians.

see also this thread:
AncestryDNA results from across Europe (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11572-AncestryDNA-results-from-across-Europe)

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/france.jpg

mwauthy
08-14-2017, 06:38 PM
What's odd is that the maps for Iberian Peninsula go all the way north up to the middle of Great Britain right near Hadrian's Wall, and all the way east near the Rhine river which were the northwestern borders of the Roman Empire. The maps for Italy only go 2/3 of the way through France and don't even reach Wallonia Belgium. Since Iberia was conquered prior to Gaul or Britain I wonder if the empire used Iberian conscripts to then conquer the other two locations leading to the Iberian percentages previously mentioned.

If Iberian percentages were a reflection of Neolithic Atlantic coastal migration then why don't the maps go to Ireland and Scotland?

JerryS.
08-14-2017, 06:54 PM
Ancestry gave me less than 1 percent, low confidence et cetera for Iberian. EU36 gives me 12 percent. one of those is a gross miscalculation.

ArmandoR1b
08-14-2017, 07:58 PM
What's odd is that the maps for Iberian Peninsula go all the way north up to the middle of Great Britain right near Hadrian's Wall, and all the way east near the Rhine river which were the northwestern borders of the Roman Empire. The maps for Italy only go 2/3 of the way through France and don't even reach Wallonia Belgium. Since Iberia was conquered prior to Gaul or Britain I wonder if the empire used Iberian conscripts to then conquer the other two locations leading to the Iberian percentages previously mentioned.

If Iberian percentages were a reflection of Neolithic Atlantic coastal migration then why don't the maps go to Ireland and Scotland?

The answer is that Iberian percentages aren't specifically a reflection of Neolithic Atlantic coastal migration nor are they a reflection of Iberian conscripts in the Roman armies. It is a common ancestry in the region that is a mix of the same DNA found in the Basque since they get 100% Iberian with AncestryDNA. Basques aren't just a holdover from the Neolithic. They also have a lot of Steppe ancestry. Neolithic people also mixed with WHG people and the WHG people were all over western Europe. The mix of WHG, Neolithic, and Steppe DNA are what make up the Basque and what makes up a DNA signature in western Europe found by AncestryDNA.

mwauthy
08-15-2017, 01:09 AM
People in Belgium are also a mix of hunter gatherer, Neolithic farmer, and steppe. What gives the Basque 100%? An unusually high amount of Neolithic? Eurogenes only has me at 4% Basque yet Ancestry has me at 25% Iberian. I wonder what the discrepancy is?

mwauthy
08-15-2017, 11:27 PM
The answer is that Iberian percentages aren't specifically a reflection of Neolithic Atlantic coastal migration nor are they a reflection of Iberian conscripts in the Roman armies. It is a common ancestry in the region that is a mix of the same DNA found in the Basque since they get 100% Iberian with AncestryDNA. Basques aren't just a holdover from the Neolithic. They also have a lot of Steppe ancestry. Neolithic people also mixed with WHG people and the WHG people were all over western Europe. The mix of WHG, Neolithic, and Steppe DNA are what make up the Basque and what makes up a DNA signature in western Europe found by AncestryDNA.

I think the Iberian has to correlate to some type of Vasconic western coastal category. On Eurogenes Basques get the highest Atlantic scores. I have no Iberian or Basque ancestors I'm aware of. I'm assuming my 25% Iberian comes from my French Canadian ancestors from the coastal port of La Rochelle right on the Atlantic coast of west/central France.

greerpalmer
08-16-2017, 02:35 PM
I think the French/Swiss connection is pretty on point for Iberian. Ancestry only gives me 1%, but most other calculators give me a good chunk. My father, who has the Swiss/French connection, gets 20% on familytreeDNA (not that I think thats a good admix estimate). I believe Irish and Cornish people also tend to get pretty high Iberian, which is in part what fed into all the misconceptions about their origins.

JerryS.
08-16-2017, 04:25 PM
I think the French/Swiss connection is pretty on point for Iberian. Ancestry only gives me 1%, but most other calculators give me a good chunk. My father, who has the Swiss/French connection, gets 20% on familytreeDNA (not that I think thats a good admix estimate). I believe Irish and Cornish people also tend to get pretty high Iberian, which is in part what fed into all the misconceptions about their origins.

why do you think Ancestry gives such low percentages for Iberian and Mediterranean in general?

greerpalmer
08-16-2017, 04:32 PM
why do you think Ancestry gives such low percentages for Iberian and Mediterranean in general?

I don't know if I'd go that far. Just different admixture calculators have different boundaries for their populations and sometimes its difficult to break out. For example, my parents are much more likely to show Balkan and Iberian, and I more often show Italian & North African. On most population maps there are clear overlaps between all 4 categories.

Scott's father is predominately German and shows 15% Iberian. I'm predominately English/Irish/German and show 10% Italy/Greece. I don't these numbers are necessarily underindexed. Its difficult to tell to because no two tests really have the same ancestral timeline in their estimations.

mwauthy
08-16-2017, 06:13 PM
There was some news article a few years back that said Irish and Welsh or ancient Britons were most closely related to the Basques. If that were the case why are they only getting 5% Iberian instead of 100% like the Basques?

Apex n Harmony
08-16-2017, 07:00 PM
Ancestry gave me less than 1 percent, low confidence et cetera for Iberian. EU36 gives me 12 percent. one of those is a gross miscalculation.

Davidski over at Eurogenes wrote that the K36 test focuses on much deeper ancestry than 23andMe does. I imagine it would therefore focus on much deeper ancestry than AncestryDNA does too, and if so, that might explain how you could show 12% on K36 and <1% on Ancestry.

JerryS.
08-16-2017, 07:41 PM
Davidski over at Eurogenes wrote that the K36 test focuses on much deeper ancestry than 23andMe does. I imagine it would therefore focus on much deeper ancestry than AncestryDNA does too, and if so, that might explain how you could show 12% on K36 and <1% on Ancestry.

I don't know what deeper is to them, but Ancestry says thousands of years. also the percent I mentioned before were the same sample analyzed by two different calculators, not two different samples. go figure....

JerryS.
08-16-2017, 07:42 PM
I don't know if I'd go that far. Just different admixture calculators have different boundaries for their populations and sometimes its difficult to break out. For example, my parents are much more likely to show Balkan and Iberian, and I more often show Italian & North African. On most population maps there are clear overlaps between all 4 categories.

Scott's father is predominately German and shows 15% Iberian. I'm predominately English/Irish/German and show 10% Italy/Greece. I don't these numbers are necessarily underindexed. Its difficult to tell to because no two tests really have the same ancestral timeline in their estimations.

could be that your paper trail that you've been lead to believe is different from your true genetic trail....

greerpalmer
08-16-2017, 10:42 PM
There was some news article a few years back that said Irish and Welsh or ancient Britons were most closely related to the Basques. If that were the case why are they only getting 5% Iberian instead of 100% like the Basques?

I believe this was more or less debunked. The theory was based on the presence of a specific variation of the R Y-haplogroup which was most common in the British Isles and Basque populations. Since then, sample sets have expanded and its pretty clear the haplogroup is wide spread with various subclades in different areas.

For some time linguists have known that the Celtic origins of the UK does come from central europe. There is a close link between preRoman Celtiberians and the British people.

greerpalmer
08-16-2017, 10:45 PM
could be that your paper trail that you've been lead to believe is different from your true genetic trail....

I think its more likely just more ancient origins dating back before 1500. Central Europe is fairly admixed, and most of my matches share a paper trail going back to the same regions.

mwauthy
08-17-2017, 04:26 PM
It seems odd that France is categorized in the Europe West map. The average French person is scoring higher Iberian than Europe West. Portugal is actually part of the Iberian Peninsula, yet the average Portuguese person is only averaging 37% Iberian which is only slightly more than the average French person.

I think the labels are misleading and the maps might need to be re categorized.
Iberian should be labeled Basque. Ireland should be labeled Celtic since Portuguese, Spanish, and French are getting decent Ireland percentages. Europe West should be a small map around Belgium since it's probably Gaulish/Frankish or Celtic/Germanic since English and Europe West seem to be interchangeable.

name1000
09-06-2017, 04:49 PM
It's a pretty widely known phenomenon for people with little if any known Iberian ancestry to get ridiculously high Iberian totals. I'm mostly Irish with a bit of German (Plus some Scandinavian that comes through my Irish ancestry) and I scored something like 5% or 6% Iberian. I can't imagine that almost any of it is real. Maybe I could be 1% or 2% Iberian but I can't imagine I'm 6%.

I should have gotten about 15-20% German on my test based on my family history but I only got about 7%. I assume that my test assigned what should have been German DNA to Iberia. My understanding is that the German government isn't allowing Germans to be tested for a base population due to the Nazi legacy. This is supposed to be resulting in problems tracking down people's German ancestry, as we have few genetic markers.

Trixster
09-06-2017, 09:28 PM
It's funny, Ancestry gave me 10% Iberian and I have no idea where it comes from. I'm primarily, English, Scottish and Irish (approximately 88%) with a little Italian and German thrown in (approximately 12%). So I've been working under the assumption that they're picking up on an ancient connection between Iberia and the British Isles or they're just plain wrong.

In my case, their results only make sense if I go back a couple of thousand years and even then, it's a stretch.
Is there a possible overlap between the DNA of Italians and Iberians? Or of the interpretations for the results of those two populations?

I have a lot of known Iberian (both on paper and via DNA @ 50%) , and have come up with some Italian results on some models (around 12%). I have no *known* recent Italian ancestry.

JMcB
09-07-2017, 12:12 AM
Is there a possible overlap between the DNA of Italians and Iberians? Or of the interpretations for the results of those two populations?

I have a lot of known Iberian (both on paper and via DNA @ 50%) , and have come up with some Italian results on some models (around 12%). I have no *known* recent Italian ancestry.

That might be a possibility, except they also gave me 8% Italian, which is just about what I should be (6%). They also gave me 5% NW European which is also a pretty decent fit, if I consider it as representing my German ancestry (6%). Beyond that, they gave me 38% Irish, 22% British, 16% Scandinavian, 10% Iberian & 1% Eastern European.

If I consider the Scandinavian as really representing the Germanic & Scandinavian input found in the British Isles - I am I-M253 - that would bring my British Isles numbers just about where they should be. Although, they would still be 12% short, which is just about what they gave to Iberia and I have no Iberian ancestry that I know of.

So the Iberian = Italian doesn't really work in my case.

sweuro
09-07-2017, 11:28 AM
Is there a possible overlap between the DNA of Italians and Iberians? Or of the interpretations for the results of those two populations?

I have a lot of known Iberian (both on paper and via DNA @ 50%) , and have come up with some Italian results on some models (around 12%). I have no *known* recent Italian ancestry.
There is no overlap, because Iberian is basque component, the reason is because spaniards are not pure basques, that's why they score some Italian.

mst
11-24-2017, 07:06 AM
I have just begun my foray into this DNA testing business, and chose MyHeritage as a start. Being half Italian, a quarter Armenian and 12.5 each French Canadian and Irish MyHeritage gave me 30% Iberian, 26% Greek 15% Balkan, 11 % Middle East, 10% West Asia and 8% North and Western European. Notice no Italian!! No Irish! This all leads me to believe there is a significant amount of work to be done in order to obtain accurate test results.

JerryS.
11-24-2017, 05:00 PM
It seems odd that France is categorized in the Europe West map. The average French person is scoring higher Iberian than Europe West. Portugal is actually part of the Iberian Peninsula, yet the average Portuguese person is only averaging 37% Iberian which is only slightly more than the average French person.

I think the labels are misleading and the maps might need to be re categorized.
Iberian should be labeled Basque. Ireland should be labeled Celtic since Portuguese, Spanish, and French are getting decent Ireland percentages. Europe West should be a small map around Belgium since it's probably Gaulish/Frankish or Celtic/Germanic since English and Europe West seem to be interchangeable.


its odd that you say this because some DNA companies place northern Italy in western Europe.

msmarjoribanks
11-24-2017, 05:43 PM
It might be interesting to compare your Ancestry results to Gedmatch. I only get 2% Iberian on Ancestry, but on Gedmatch (Eurogenes K36) I get about 13%. My Ancestry results are also pretty inaccurate compared to paper trail (unlike MyHeritage, which is a lot closer). Anyway, I have no Spanish ancestry to my knowledge (or Basque, which is separate on Eurogenes K36, but seems to track Iberian somewhat in that of myself and my parents higher Iberian goes along with higher Basque too), but the break out maybe could give more of a sense of where it might be coming from.

timberwolf
11-24-2017, 05:55 PM
I have no known Iberian ancestry.

Yet with Ancestry I score 9% Myheritage 25% K36 16.06 0.5 with 23andme and zilch on both FTDNA and LDNA.

Myheritage is a real outlier.

mwauthy
11-25-2017, 05:56 AM
its odd that you say this because some DNA companies place northern Italy in western Europe.

In my opinion they shouldn’t use political boundaries which are man made to describe a persons ethnicity estimate. They should simply let you know the general locations where people score 100% for a category. So for my ethnicity estimate they could say 25% of my estimate is similar to some Basques that score 100% Iberian Peninsula. Also 47% of my ethnicity is similar to some Dutch people that score 100% Europe West. Otherwise the regions seem too large and the populations too diverse to make the numbers meaningful.

JerryS.
11-25-2017, 01:42 PM
In my opinion they shouldn’t use political boundaries which are man made to describe a persons ethnicity estimate. They should simply let you know the general locations where people score 100% for a category. So for my ethnicity estimate they could say 25% of my estimate is similar to some Basques that score 100% Iberian Peninsula. Also 47% of my ethnicity is similar to some Dutch people that score 100% Europe West. Otherwise the regions seem too large and the populations too diverse to make the numbers meaningful.

even native inhabitants that have been there in one place for generations don't score 100% of anything. I've learned that the average Italian only scores 77% Italian/Greek with Ancestry DNA. those samples were taken from Tuscany I think which is on the border or maybe partially included in Ancestry's western European map.

mwauthy
11-25-2017, 03:58 PM
even native inhabitants that have been there in one place for generations don't score 100% of anything. I've learned that the average Italian only scores 77% Italian/Greek with Ancestry DNA. those samples were taken from Tuscany I think which is on the border or maybe partially included in Ancestry's western European map.

According to Ancestry some Europe South or Italy/Greece natives do score 100% for the region. It would be interesting to know their exact locations and to perhaps have a short biography on their history in the region.

Baltimore1937
11-26-2017, 11:04 PM
Then too, Catholic immigrants would tend to intermarry with each other. I'm thinking especially of the New Orleans gateway before Ellis Island in NY. Italians would have blended with local Cajon French and Spanish elements. And some would conceivably have passed themselves off, later on downstream, as pure Cajuns in order to appeal to Anglo-American prejudices. I don't want to reveal specific cases.

Scott
04-17-2018, 08:53 PM
I should add that my Dad has very little confirmed French ancestry. He is primarliy British Isles + German/Swiss German. On Eurogenes K36 he is 17.09% Iberian, 4.76% Basque, and just 3.58% French. Below is his full table nMonte from Lukasz's K36 Ancestry Report:

FULL TABLE nMONTE" (estimated percentages)
"distance%=9.3868"
Wales,62.6
England_North-East,12.6
Saarland,8.8
Bayern,1.8
Cantabria,1.4
La_Rioja,1.4
Dutch_Noord_Holland,1.2
North_Norway,1
Andalusia,0.6
Aragón,0.6
England_South-West,0.6
Finnish_Swede,0.6
North_Sweden,0.6
Castilla,0.4
Cataluna,0.4
FR_South-West,0.4
Navarra,0.4
País_Vasco,0.4
Abkhasian,0.2
Arain_Punjabi,0.2
Asturia,0.2
Extremadura,0.2
FR_Basque,0.2
FR_South,0.2
FR_Swiss,0.2
Georgia_Svans,0.2
Ireland,0.2
Karachays,0.2
Kurdish_Jew,0.2
Lezgin,0.2
Nordrhein-Westfalen,0.2
Orkney,0.2

It seems odd that his Swiss ancestry would make his results appear that Iberian, but I guess it's possible.

JerryS.
04-17-2018, 09:29 PM
According to Ancestry some Europe South or Italy/Greece natives do score 100% for the region. It would be interesting to know their exact locations and to perhaps have a short biography on their history in the region.

yes, that's why I said their average..... looking at the map Ancestry dot come uses..... all of northern Italy is included as part of their Western European

msmarjoribanks
04-18-2018, 08:52 PM
I should add that my Dad has very little confirmed French ancestry. He is primarliy British Isles + German/Swiss German. On Eurogenes K36 he is 17.09% Iberian, 4.76% Basque, and just 3.58% French.

On Eurogenes K36, my dad is about 4% Basque, 15.5% Iberian, and 4.6% French. Based on my paper research (which is pretty good on his side), he's primarily British Isles (probably about 80%, mostly English and Welsh), little French, little German, little Dutch (little means about 6.25%, although obviously there is some degree of guesswork).

K36 doesn't share the spreadsheet with the numbers for the test-takers (not that I can see anyway), but checking K13, he gets about 16% West Med, which in part would probably correspond/overlap. Looking at the spreadsheet, French participants get about 19% West Med, SW French get 30% (the highest number I see), SW English (closest category available to Wales, probably) get about 15%, SE English get 14%. My point is that you can expect mixed results like this even without a mixed (in genealogical time) background. So although it wouldn't shock me if I found out there was some unknown Spanish ancestry (or more French than I know), I don't think there's much reason to assume that's the case from these results.