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Cocopopsmonkey
08-15-2017, 03:52 PM
I am of Punjabi Arain origin - grandparents hail from Jalandhar.

My family has always claimed to be of Arab/Iranian origin. Both sides have claimed that we moved from Arabia to Persia to Multan, Punjab and from there on to Jalandhar, Punjab. However, I have always been sceptical about their version of events and their desire to have origins other than what they in fact are.

DNA Ancestry Results

Asia South 97%
Asia Central 1%
Iberian Peninsula 1%
Melanesia 1%


Gedmatch Results


Harappaworld Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 41.64
2 S-Indian 29.8
3 Caucasian 16.12
4 NE-Euro 8.29
5 SW-Asian 1.48
6 Beringian 0.73
7 Papuan 0.61
8 American 0.59
9 NE-Asian 0.4
10 Siberian 0.23
11 SE-Asian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 4.32
2 sindhi (harappa) 4.33
3 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 5.11
4 kashmiri (harappa) 5.31
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 5.53
6punjabi (harappa) 6.23
7 punjabi-arain (xing) 6.51
8 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 6.85
9 pathan (hgdp) 6.88
10 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 7.17
11 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 7.34
12 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 7.36
13 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 7.57
14 bhatia (harappa) 7.59
15 sindhi (hgdp) 7.76
16 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 8.4
17 kalash (hgdp) 8.49
18 up-muslim (harappa) 10.11
19 burusho (hgdp) 10.34
20 haryana-jatt (harappa) 12.1

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#
*
Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79% kalash (hgdp) 21% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) 2.12
2 77.4% kalash (hgdp) 22.6% velama (metspalu) 2.23
3 80.3% kalash (hgdp) 19.7% naidu (reich) 2.25
4 71.8% kalash (hgdp) 28.2% kerala-christian (harappa) 2.3
5* 80.8% kalash (hgdp) 19.2% piramalai-kallar (metspalu) 2.31
6 76.6% kalash (hgdp) 23.4% karnataka (harappa) 2.32
7 79.1% kalash (hgdp) 20.9% tamil-vellalar (harappa) 2.33
8 76.1% kalash (hgdp) 23.9% ap-reddy (harappa) 2.33
9 81.4% kalash (hgdp) 18.6% vysya (reich) 2.36
10 80.7% kalash (hgdp) 19.3% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) 2.37
11 80% kalash (hgdp) 20% kurumba (metspalu) 2.4
12 69.2% kalash (hgdp) 30.8% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) 2.42
13 79.6% kalash (hgdp) 20.4% tamil-nadar (harappa) 2.44
14 74.8% kalash (hgdp) 25.2% ap-hyderabad (harappa) 2.45
15 76.6% kalash (hgdp) 23.4% andhra-pradesh (harappa) 2.46
16 83.1% kalash (hgdp) 16.9% sakilli (chaubey) 2.47
17 80.8% kalash (hgdp) 19.2% hallaki (reich) 2.49
18 73.4% kalash (hgdp) 26.6% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 2.5
19 71.3% kalash (hgdp) 28.7% kerala-nair (harappa) 2.52
20 69.6% kalash (hgdp) 30.4% tn-brahmin (xing) 2.52

I'm guessing this is all pretty normal for a Punjabi, but is there anything else I should try?.

Thanks

Gandhara
08-15-2017, 10:02 PM
I am of Punjabi Arain origin - grandparents hail from Jalandhar.

My family has always claimed to be of Arab/Iranian origin. Both sides have claimed that we moved from Arabia to Persia to Multan, Punjab and from there on to Jalandhar, Punjab. However, I have always been sceptical about their version of events and their desire to have origins other than what they in fact are.

DNA Ancestry Results

Asia South 97%
Asia Central 1%
Iberian Peninsula 1%
Melanesia 1%


Gedmatch Results


Harappaworld Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 41.64
2 S-Indian 29.8
3 Caucasian 16.12
4 NE-Euro 8.29
5 SW-Asian 1.48
6 Beringian 0.73
7 Papuan 0.61
8 American 0.59
9 NE-Asian 0.4
10 Siberian 0.23
11 SE-Asian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 4.32
2 sindhi (harappa) 4.33
3 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 5.11
4 kashmiri (harappa) 5.31
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 5.53
6punjabi (harappa) 6.23
7 punjabi-arain (xing) 6.51
8 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 6.85
9 pathan (hgdp) 6.88
10 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 7.17
11 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 7.34
12 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 7.36
13 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 7.57
14 bhatia (harappa) 7.59
15 sindhi (hgdp) 7.76
16 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 8.4
17 kalash (hgdp) 8.49
18 up-muslim (harappa) 10.11
19 burusho (hgdp) 10.34
20 haryana-jatt (harappa) 12.1

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#
*
Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79% kalash (hgdp) 21% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) 2.12
2 77.4% kalash (hgdp) 22.6% velama (metspalu) 2.23
3 80.3% kalash (hgdp) 19.7% naidu (reich) 2.25
4 71.8% kalash (hgdp) 28.2% kerala-christian (harappa) 2.3
5* 80.8% kalash (hgdp) 19.2% piramalai-kallar (metspalu) 2.31
6 76.6% kalash (hgdp) 23.4% karnataka (harappa) 2.32
7 79.1% kalash (hgdp) 20.9% tamil-vellalar (harappa) 2.33
8 76.1% kalash (hgdp) 23.9% ap-reddy (harappa) 2.33
9 81.4% kalash (hgdp) 18.6% vysya (reich) 2.36
10 80.7% kalash (hgdp) 19.3% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) 2.37
11 80% kalash (hgdp) 20% kurumba (metspalu) 2.4
12 69.2% kalash (hgdp) 30.8% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) 2.42
13 79.6% kalash (hgdp) 20.4% tamil-nadar (harappa) 2.44
14 74.8% kalash (hgdp) 25.2% ap-hyderabad (harappa) 2.45
15 76.6% kalash (hgdp) 23.4% andhra-pradesh (harappa) 2.46
16 83.1% kalash (hgdp) 16.9% sakilli (chaubey) 2.47
17 80.8% kalash (hgdp) 19.2% hallaki (reich) 2.49
18 73.4% kalash (hgdp) 26.6% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 2.5
19 71.3% kalash (hgdp) 28.7% kerala-nair (harappa) 2.52
20 69.6% kalash (hgdp) 30.4% tn-brahmin (xing) 2.52

I'm guessing this is all pretty normal for a Punjabi, but is there anything else I should try?.

Thanks

I am myself from Pakistani Punjab and the dilemma with most of our people is that they try to trace out their roots out of Pakistan. Half the population is syed, some baghadaadies, some Syrians , some of irani origin and so on. The fact of the matter is that most of us are indigenous to India/Pakistan and are converted muslims.

Gandhara
08-15-2017, 10:05 PM
My gedmatch results below :

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 Baloch 37.6
2 S-Indian 32.63
3 Caucasian 12.35
4 NE-Euro 11.11
5 NE-Asian 2.09
6 SW-Asian 1.55
7 Mediterranean 0.98
8 Papuan 0.76
9 American 0.64
10 Siberian 0.26
11 Beringian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 3.45
2 punjabi (harappa) 3.75
3 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 3.99
4 kashmiri (harappa) 4.19
5 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 4.45
6 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.8
7 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 4.96
8 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 5.34
9 up-muslim (harappa) 5.64
10 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.01
11 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 6.12
12 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 6.62
13 sindhi (harappa) 7.09
14 nepalese-a (xing) 7.15
15 punjabi-arain (xing) 7.82
16 up-brahmin (harappa) 8.95
17 haryana-jatt (harappa) 9.24
18 pathan (hgdp) 9.96
19 sindhi (hgdp) 10.28
20 bhatia (harappa) 10.47

dp
08-15-2017, 10:57 PM
aapka swagat hai Anthrogenica.
Try "Ancient Near East Neolithic K13 calculator"
post results to: Upcoming Near East Neolithic 13 Gedmatch Calculator thread
Shukriya aur Phir milenge.
dp

I am of Punjabi Arain origin - grandparents hail from Jalandhar.

My family has always claimed to be of Arab/Iranian origin. Both sides have claimed that we moved from Arabia to Persia to Multan, Punjab and from there on to Jalandhar, Punjab. However, I have always been sceptical about their version of events and their desire to have origins other than what they in fact are.

DNA Ancestry Results

Asia South 97%
Asia Central 1%
Iberian Peninsula 1%
Melanesia 1%


Gedmatch Results


Harappaworld Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 41.64
2 S-Indian 29.8
3 Caucasian 16.12
4 NE-Euro 8.29
5 SW-Asian 1.48
6 Beringian 0.73
7 Papuan 0.61
8 American 0.59
9 NE-Asian 0.4
10 Siberian 0.23
11 SE-Asian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 4.32
2 sindhi (harappa) 4.33
3 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 5.11
4 kashmiri (harappa) 5.31
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 5.53
6punjabi (harappa) 6.23
7 punjabi-arain (xing) 6.51
8 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 6.85
9 pathan (hgdp) 6.88
10 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 7.17
11 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 7.34
12 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 7.36
13 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 7.57
14 bhatia (harappa) 7.59
15 sindhi (hgdp) 7.76
16 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 8.4
17 kalash (hgdp) 8.49
18 up-muslim (harappa) 10.11
19 burusho (hgdp) 10.34
20 haryana-jatt (harappa) 12.1

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#
*
Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79% kalash (hgdp) 21% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) 2.12
2 77.4% kalash (hgdp) 22.6% velama (metspalu) 2.23
3 80.3% kalash (hgdp) 19.7% naidu (reich) 2.25
4 71.8% kalash (hgdp) 28.2% kerala-christian (harappa) 2.3
5* 80.8% kalash (hgdp) 19.2% piramalai-kallar (metspalu) 2.31
6 76.6% kalash (hgdp) 23.4% karnataka (harappa) 2.32
7 79.1% kalash (hgdp) 20.9% tamil-vellalar (harappa) 2.33
8 76.1% kalash (hgdp) 23.9% ap-reddy (harappa) 2.33
9 81.4% kalash (hgdp) 18.6% vysya (reich) 2.36
10 80.7% kalash (hgdp) 19.3% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) 2.37
11 80% kalash (hgdp) 20% kurumba (metspalu) 2.4
12 69.2% kalash (hgdp) 30.8% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) 2.42
13 79.6% kalash (hgdp) 20.4% tamil-nadar (harappa) 2.44
14 74.8% kalash (hgdp) 25.2% ap-hyderabad (harappa) 2.45
15 76.6% kalash (hgdp) 23.4% andhra-pradesh (harappa) 2.46
16 83.1% kalash (hgdp) 16.9% sakilli (chaubey) 2.47
17 80.8% kalash (hgdp) 19.2% hallaki (reich) 2.49
18 73.4% kalash (hgdp) 26.6% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 2.5
19 71.3% kalash (hgdp) 28.7% kerala-nair (harappa) 2.52
20 69.6% kalash (hgdp) 30.4% tn-brahmin (xing) 2.52

I'm guessing this is all pretty normal for a Punjabi, but is there anything else I should try?.

Thanks

bol_nat
08-16-2017, 09:44 PM
Your results are similar to other arains posted on anthrogenica and after them to punjabis in general.

MonkeyDLuffy
08-17-2017, 11:19 PM
Seems in line with other upper caste punjabis. Bolnat summed up the exotic ancestry part pretty well.

Cocopopsmonkey
08-21-2017, 11:27 AM
Thanks everyone for the response.

I confirm both my maternal and paternal grandparents are from Jalandhar, though I understand I also had family in Ludhiana, prior to partition.

Another person has requested that I post the following results:

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):


#PopulationPercent
1South_Asian42.77
2West_Asian39.21
3Baltic6.52
4East_Med5.94
5North_Atlantic3.01
6Amerindian1.06
7Oceanian0.86
8Sub-Saharan0.52
9Siberian0.1

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Sindhi3.87
2Pathan5.64
3Punjabi_Jat7.83
4Kalash10.48
5Burusho11.32
6Afghan_Pashtun17.01
7Balochi17.47
8Gujarati17.66
9Makrani17.73
10Brahui17.77
11Brahmin_UP18.54
12Kshatriya19.63
13Bangladeshi24.72
14Tadjik25.93
15Afghan_Tadjik25.99
16Dharkar27.14
17Kanjar28.19
18Velamas29.39
19Kurumba30.75
20Uttar_Pradesh31.47

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
1 62.2%Sindhi+37.8%Pathan2.25
2 92.8%Sindhi+7.2%Lezgin2.56
3 92.9%Sindhi+7.1%Kumyk2.6
4 93%Sindhi+7%Chechen2.64
5 95.6%Sindhi+4.4%Ukrainian_Belgorod2.64
6 95.7%Sindhi+4.3%Southwest_Russian2.66
7 92.8%Sindhi+7.2%Tabassaran2.67
8 93.3%Sindhi+6.7%Adygei2.7
9 95.8%Sindhi+4.2%Erzya2.7
10 95.1%Sindhi+4.9%Bulgarian2.71
11 86%Sindhi+14%Afghan_Pashtun2.74
12 95.3%Sindhi+4.7%Moldavian2.75
13 96%Sindhi+4%Belorussian2.75
14 95.9%Sindhi+4.1%Russian_Smolensk2.75
15 96%Sindhi+4%Estonian_Polish2.76
16 95.8%Sindhi+4.2%Ukrainian2.77
17 96.2%Sindhi+3.8%Lithuanian2.77
18 93.5%Sindhi+6.5%Kabardin2.78
19 93.1%Sindhi+6.9%Iranian2.78
20 95.3%Sindhi+4.7%Romanian2.78


Eurogenes K36 Admixture Proportions

Population
Amerindian- [/td][/tr]
Arabian- [/td][/tr]
Armenian5.33[/td][/tr]
Basque- [/td][/tr]
Central_African- [/td][/tr]
Central_Euro2.83[/td][/tr]
East_African- [/td][/tr]
East_Asian- [/td][/tr]
East_Balkan- [/td][/tr]
East_Central_Asian- [/td][/tr]
East_Central_Euro- [/td][/tr]
East_Med2.97[/td][/tr]
Eastern_Euro- [/td][/tr]
Fennoscandian2.13[/td][/tr]
French- [/td][/tr]
Iberian- [/td][/tr]
Indo-Chinese- [/td][/tr]
Italian- [/td][/tr]
Malayan- [/td][/tr]
Near_Eastern- [/td][/tr]
North_African- [/td][/tr]
North_Atlantic- [/td][/tr]
North_Caucasian8.79[/td][/tr]
North_Sea0.88[/td][/tr]
Northeast_African- [/td][/tr]
Oceanian0.28[/td][/tr]
Omotic- [/td][/tr]
Pygmy- [/td][/tr]
Siberian- [/td][/tr]
South_Asian29.77[/td][/tr]
South_Central_Asian45.24[/td][/tr]
South_Chinese- [/td][/tr]
Volga-Ural0.36[/td][/tr]
West_African- [/td][/tr]
West_Caucasian1.44[/td][/tr]
West_Med-[/td][/tr]


puntDNAL K13 Global Oracle results:

puntDNAL K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1West_Asia42.75
2South_Asia33.59
3NE_Europe11.5
4SW_Europe3.06
5SW_Asia2.21
6Americas1.55
7Siberia1.35
8Oceania1.18
9West_Africa1.13
10SE_Asia1.01
11South_Africa0.67

Single Population Sharing:


#Population (source)Distance
1Punjabi5.1
2Sindhi5.73
3Kashmir_Pandit7.59
4Balochi9.94
5Burusho10.27
6Pathan10.28
7Pakistan_Pashtun10.34
8Makrani10.39
9Brahui10.54
10Afghan_Pashtun13.39
11Tamil_Nadu_Brahmin18.4
12Bengali22.26
13Tadjik22.94
14Velamas24.67
15Afghan_Uzbeki26.89
16UP_Muslim28.35
17Tamil_Nadu_Caste28.56
18Kurumba28.83
19Iranian29.79
20Piramalai_Kallars30.08


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
1 68.8%Punjabi+31.2%Makrani2.19
2 68%Punjabi+32%Balochi2.3
3 69.7%Punjabi+30.3%Brahui2.51
4 58.5%Kashmir_Pandit+41.5%Makrani2.63
5 87.3%Punjabi+12.7%Iranian2.74
6 88.6%Punjabi+11.4%Kurdish2.78
7 89.4%Punjabi+10.6%Abkhasian2.81
8 91.1%Punjabi+8.9%Turkish_Trabzon2.84
9 90.9%Punjabi+9.1%Armenian2.87
10 91%Punjabi+9%Assyrian2.89
11 89.4%Punjabi+10.6%Azerbaijan_Azeri2.95
12 88.6%Punjabi+11.4%Dagestan_Azeri2.96
13 59.2%Kashmir_Pandit+40.8%Brahui3
14 89.4%Punjabi+10.6%Ossetian3.02
15 70.7%Punjabi+29.3%Pathan3.1
16 57.7%Kashmir_Pandit+42.3%Balochi3.15
17 89.8%Punjabi+10.2%Adygei3.17
18 71.2%Punjabi+28.8%Pakistan_Pashtun3.21
19 91.7%Punjabi+8.3%Lebanese_Muslim3.23
20 90.7%Punjabi+9.3%Turkish_Kayseri3.27


MDLP World-22 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1West-Asian42.88
2Indian30.99
3Indo-Iranian7.98
4North-East-European5.34
5Samoedic3.94
6North-European-Mesolithic3.26
7Near_East2.83
8North-Amerind1.12
9Indo-Tibetan0.9
10Austronesian0.39
11East-South-Asian0.2
12Mesoamerican0.17

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Pathan (derived)5.23
2Burusho (derived)7.71
3Balochi (derived)7.98
4Sindhi (derived)8.36
5Pashtun (derived)12.21
6Brahui (derived)12.34
7Makrani (derived)14.18
8Parsi (derived)16.89
9Jew_India (derived)18.69
10Tadjik (derived)21.21
11Turkmen (derived)27.78
12Hindu (derived)28.77
13Iranian (derived)30.7
14Azeri (derived)32.02
15Roma (derived)32.27
16Kumyk (derived)32.86
17Lezgin (derived)33.04
18Kurd (derived)33.17
19Tabassaran (derived)33.19
20Lak (derived)33.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
1 68.7%Pathan (derived)+31.3%Sindhi (derived)4.02
2 51.2%Burusho (derived)+48.8%Balochi (derived)4.2
3 70.7%Pathan (derived)+29.3%Balochi (derived)4.46
4 88%Pathan (derived)+12%Jew_India (derived)4.61
5 65%Burusho (derived)+35%Brahui (derived)4.65
6 81.5%Balochi (derived)+18.5%Hindu (derived)4.73
7 85%Pathan (derived)+15%Brahui (derived)4.84
8 93.7%Pathan (derived)+6.3%Hindu (derived)4.87
9 97.5%Pathan (derived)+2.5%Indian (ancestral)4.88
10 71.5%Brahui (derived)+28.5%Hindu (derived)4.96
11 90.5%Pathan (derived)+9.5%Makrani (derived)5.04
12 85.7%Balochi (derived)+14.3%Indian (derived)5.06
13 85.3%Pathan (derived)+14.7%Burusho (derived)5.14
14 94.2%Pathan (derived)+5.8%Parsi (derived)5.14
15 99.5%Pathan (derived)+0.5%Near_East (ancestral)5.21
16 99.4%Pathan (derived)+0.6%West-Asian (ancestral)5.22
17 99.8%Pathan (derived)+0.2%Saudi (derived)5.23
18 100%Pathan (derived)+0%Jew_Yemen (derived)5.23
19 100%Pathan (derived)+0%Pygmy (ancestral)5.23
20 100%Pathan (derived)+0%North-European-Mesolithic (ancestral)5.23

MonkeyDLuffy
08-23-2017, 11:18 PM
I always wondered if Punjabi Arains were Kamboh/Kambojs who converted to Islam. Because so far I have only seen results of one Sikh Kamboj and they are very similar to yours. Basically less Euro and more caucasian on harrappa.

Thatagus
08-24-2017, 12:04 AM
I always wondered if Punjabi Arains were Kamboh/Kambojs who converted to Islam. Because so far I have only seen results of one Sikh Kamboj and they are very similar to yours. Basically less Euro and more caucasian on harrappa.

There are many Muslim Kambohs, so I doubt that.

Can you post the Sikh Kamboh's result, if you have it?

MonkeyDLuffy
08-24-2017, 05:33 PM
There are many Muslim Kambohs, so I doubt that.

Can you post the Sikh Kamboh's result, if you have it?

Which raises the question, what group Punjabi arains belonged to before conversion to islam.

Here are results of a Sikh kamboj, although he has stated that his family has mixed with Jatts and Tarkhans in past 4 generations.

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 36.97
2 S-Indian 30.53
3 Caucasian 14.69
4 NE-Euro 10.81
5 Mediterranean 1.79


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 kashmiri @ 3.257335
2 punjabi-khatri @ 3.474290
3 pushtikar-brahmin @ 4.082012
4 kashmiri-pandit @ 4.546709
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim @ 4.863927
6 punjabi @ 5.874677
7 punjabi-brahmin @ 6.438381
8 punjabi-jatt-sikh @ 6.491572
9 sindhi @ 6.668126
10 rajasthani-brahmin @ 7.149312
11 singapore-indian-c @ 7.381404
12 gujarati-muslim @ 7.384083
13 up-muslim @ 7.511566
14 kashmiri-pahari @ 8.119914
15 nepali @ 8.456131
16 punjabi-ramgarhia @ 8.912753
17 pathan @ 8.949820
18 punjabi-arain @ 9.510751
19 haryana-jatt @ 9.829514
20 nepalese-a @ 10.702223

Reza
08-24-2017, 05:51 PM
The Pak Pahari sample I have, from my friend, is Arain by background on his mother's side, also from Jalandhar originally.

I remember Kurd once commenting that his samples seem more Baloch shifted, generally scoring less NE-Euro / WHG compared to other Punjabi samples.

HarappaWorld

Population Percent
1 Baloch 39.68
2 S-Indian 32.77
3 Caucasian 13.35
4 NE-Euro 7.6
5 SW-Asian 1.69
6 NE-Asian 1.18
7 Beringian 1.01
8 SE-Asian 0.96
9 American 0.72
10 Siberian 0.64
11 Papuan 0.39

Eurogenes K13

Population Percent
1 South_Asian 46.47
2 West_Asian 36.19
3 Baltic 7.58
4 East_Med 2.41
5 North_Atlantic 2.2
6 East_Asian 1.44
7 Amerindian 1.17
8 Oceanian 0.91
9 Siberian 0.84
10 Sub-Saharan 0.78

PuntdnaL K13


# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 39.63
2 South_Asia 37.1
3 NE_Europe 11.54
4 SW_Europe 2.08
5 SE_Asia 2.01
6 Oceania 1.71
7 SW_Asia 1.61
8 Americas 1.25
9 West_Africa 1.02
10 Siberia 0.88
11 NE_Asia 0.85
12 South_Africa 0.3

Gandhara
08-24-2017, 10:06 PM
from Pakistani Punjab and these are my harrapa gedmatch:

Population
S-Indian 32.63
Baloch 37.60
Caucasian 12.35
NE-Euro 11.11
SE-Asian -
Siberian 0.26
NE-Asian 2.09
Papuan 0.76
American 0.64
Beringian -
Mediterranean 0.98
SW-Asian 1.55
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

MonkeyDLuffy
08-25-2017, 10:20 AM
Something I found about possible hindu counterparts of Arains:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayeen_(Hindu)

If they moved from Sindh long time ago, the results kinda makes sense, as Sindhis have higher baloch and Caucasian. Also Rayeen sounds a lot like Arain. Both are farming communities.

Just checked other sources and articles, seems like Arains and Rayeens are same communities, just different way to pronounce the same word.

Thatagus
08-25-2017, 10:41 AM
Which raises the question, what group Punjabi arains belonged to before conversion to islam.

Here are results of a Sikh kamboj, although he has stated that his family has mixed with Jatts and Tarkhans in past 4 generations.

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 36.97
2 S-Indian 30.53
3 Caucasian 14.69
4 NE-Euro 10.81
5 Mediterranean 1.79


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 kashmiri @ 3.257335
2 punjabi-khatri @ 3.474290
3 pushtikar-brahmin @ 4.082012
4 kashmiri-pandit @ 4.546709
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim @ 4.863927
6 punjabi @ 5.874677
7 punjabi-brahmin @ 6.438381
8 punjabi-jatt-sikh @ 6.491572
9 sindhi @ 6.668126
10 rajasthani-brahmin @ 7.149312
11 singapore-indian-c @ 7.381404
12 gujarati-muslim @ 7.384083
13 up-muslim @ 7.511566
14 kashmiri-pahari @ 8.119914
15 nepali @ 8.456131
16 punjabi-ramgarhia @ 8.912753
17 pathan @ 8.949820
18 punjabi-arain @ 9.510751
19 haryana-jatt @ 9.829514
20 nepalese-a @ 10.702223
His % Baloch is quiet lower than the Xing et al. Punjabi Arrains (who averaged ~44%) and the ones that khanabadoshi posted in this thread (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10906-KHANABADOSHI-Calculator-Results&p=245804&viewfull=1#post245804)

With regards to Punjabi Arrains, they seem to originate in the Sindh/South Punjab region and claim folk origin from there, specifically the Multan-Uch region, from a "Raja Bhutta" of Multan. There are Bhutta/Bhutto Arrains present in South Punjab and Sindh region.
18345

I think they might have ties to the Sindhi Buddhist Rai dynasty, which had it's capital in historic Alor/Aror (modern day Rohri in northern Sindh). In this case, Arrain would be a plural of 'Rai' in Sindhi/Seraiki. The last ruler of the Buddhist Rai's, Sahasi II was murdered and usurped by the brahmin Chach. As Buddhism died out in the Indus Valley and Islam was brought on by the Arab invasion, the people of Sindh/South Punjab, who were at that time predominantly Buddhist of the Sammitya sect, converted to Islam.

Also, in the Chachnama, the Meds/Mands, a pastoral group said to be living in the triangle between between Alor, Multan and Turan* (historic name for the Kalat region), who along with the Jatts were the two main peoples of Sindh, both of whom were Buddhists. Apparently, the Mids also called themselves "Arii".
Here is a more detailed part about them
At the time of the first Arab invasion of Sind,
towards the end of the seventh century A.D., “the two chief tribal groupings of the country were the Jats (Zuṭṭ) and the Mīds, each with numerous, commonly intractable, subdivisions”
(Wink 1999, I: 156), though “the original seat of the Med or Medi colony was in the Panjab
proper” (Elliot and Dowson 1867, I: 508). Of these tribes, the Mīds8 are called differently by
different authors, such as Med, Mayd, Mīd, Mind, Mand, etc. Friedmann and Shulman
observe that the name is not fully clear and the Arabic manuscripts either read m-y-d or m-
n-d (1991: 967). Wink comments that from the name of this important tribal group “only
MD is given in the Arabic script, hence Mīd, Mayd, Mand, Mund are all possibilities” (Wink
1999, I: 164). Minorsky called them “Mand” and contributed an article under this title for
the Encyclopédie de l’Islam (1936: 251-52). Al-Maṣ‘ūdī, who visited India in A.D. 915-16, calls
them Mind, a nation “who are a race of Sind”, and writes that they were at constant war
with the people of Mansura9 (in Elliot and Dowson 1867, I: 24; 529). Similarly, Al-Iṣṭakhrī
says that “the infidel peoples of Sind are the Budha and the Mēd. The Mēd lived on the
banks of the Indus ..., from Multān to the sea, and occupied pasturages in the desert which
stretched between the Indus and the city of Kāmuhul” (Friedmann and Shulman 1991: 967).
Al-Idrīsī mentions the tribe al-Mayd as a wandering people, who seek pastures in the outer
regions of this desert, and reports that “their grazing grounds and wanderings extend up to
Māmuhul.10 They are a numerous people and have large crowds among them. They have
camels and goats, and many a time in their [pursuit of] pastures they reach as far as Rōr on
the banks of the River Mihrān. Sometimes they march further and reach the vicinity of the
frontiers of Makrān”11 (Ahmad 1960: 44; cf. Wink 1999, I: 142; Elliot and Dowson 1867, I: 519-
31; Friedmann and Shulman 1991: 967). Ibn Khordadbeh mentions that al-Med “lived about
four days’ journey to the east of the Indus and were robbers” (Friedmann and Shulman
1991: 967; cf. Ibn Khordadbeh in Elliot and Dowson 1867, I: 15; De Goeje 1889: 42). Ibn
Ḥawqal writes (about A.D. 977) that “the infidels who inhabit Sind are called Budha and
Mand. They reside in the tract between Túrán, Multán, and Mansúra, to the west of the
Mihrán. They breed camels, which are sought after in Khurásán and elsewhere.... The
Mands dwell on the banks of the Mihrán, from the boundary of Multán to the sea, and in
the desert between Makrán and Fámhal. They have many cattle sheds and pasturages, and
form a large population” (in Elliot and Dowson, 1867, I: 38; cf. Wink 1999, I: 164-66). Al-
Bīrūnī records that “the Maydh people were pirates and their dwellings extended between
Daybul, Cutch and Kathiawar” (quoted in Ahmad 1960: 145). Sometime they even extended
their raids up to “the mouth of the Tigris and the southern part of the Red Sea and the
coasts of Sri Lanka” (Wink 1999, I: 164). Mujmalu-t-Tawarikh, written in A.H. 520 (A.D. 1126),
records the rivalry of the Meds with the Jats.
It so appears that the Arrains moved up the Sutlej, from South Punjab near the Multan-Uch region, settled in the Ghaggar-Sirsa (in NW Haryana) region and took up farming.
"Their ancestors from Uch came and settled about the Ghaggar at Sirsa, and until the famine of 1759, they held the whole of the Sotar or Ghaggar Valley from Bhatner upwards to near Tohana (in the Hissar district) being at that time in possesion of 117, or according to some of 360 villages."
pg. 97, Sirsa Settlement Report, J. Wilson, 1884
https://archive.org/details/finalreportonre00wilsgoog

The Ain-e-Akbari also mentions the A`rain parganah in the subah and sarkar of Ajmer, near the present NW Haryana/ SE Punjab region.
http://persian.packhum.org/persian/main?url=pf%3Fauth%3D7%26work%3D002

After the famines of 1759 and 1780, and conflicts with the neighbouring Bhattis they moved upto to the Jullundur Doab from the Ghaggar-Sirsa-Choya Valleys, and to the Sutlej Valley/Bar region.


@Cocopopsmonkey Do you know your haplogroups?

Thatagus
08-25-2017, 12:05 PM
Something I found about possible hindu counterparts of Arains:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayeen_(Hindu)

If they moved from Sindh long time ago, the results kinda makes sense, as Sindhis have higher baloch and Caucasian. Also Rayeen sounds a lot like Arain. Both are farming communities.

Just checked other sources and articles, seems like Arains and Rayeens are same communities, just different way to pronounce the same word.

Punjabi Arrains seem to be quiet homogenous, genetically so one cannot say much about this conclusively without genetic results from them. Some relations like this based on similar sounding words can be entirely coincidental as well. One thing to note however is that in Sindh and Southern Punjab, during the pre-Islamic era, only the Brahmins were Hindus while the vast majority of the population were staunch Buddhists, usually belonging to the Sammitya sect.

(!)--SSA--(!)
09-01-2017, 10:56 AM
Something I found about possible hindu counterparts of Arains:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayeen_(Hindu)

If they moved from Sindh long time ago, the results kinda makes sense, as Sindhis have higher baloch and Caucasian. Also Rayeen sounds a lot like Arain. Both are farming communities.

Just checked other sources and articles, seems like Arains and Rayeens are same communities, just different way to pronounce the same word.

Arains are sometimes stated to be related to Sainis. In the past both these groups were involved in similar occupations in some cases, and both had generally smaller land holdings. Sainis claim to be of Rajput descent who lost their land holdings in conflict, and this is also stated on some websites run by non-Sainis. Myself I think this could well be true that Sainis descended from Rajputs, and Arains might also be of Rajput descent. Each of these communities are likely to be formed from Rajputs mixed with non-Rajputs. That mixing might have occurred prior to them loosing their lands when they were Rajputs, or afterwards when they became Sainis or Arains, difficult to say.

Thatagus
09-01-2017, 11:30 AM
Arains are sometimes stated to be related to Sainis. In the past both these groups were involved in similar occupations in some cases, and both had generally smaller land holdings. Sainis claim to be of Rajput descent who lost their land holdings in conflict, and this is also stated on some websites run by non-Sainis. Myself I think this could well be true that Sainis descended from Rajputs, and Arains might also be of Rajput descent. Each of these communities are likely to be formed from Rajputs mixed with non-Rajputs. That mixing might have occurred prior to them loosing their lands when they were Rajputs, or afterwards when they became Sainis or Arains, difficult to say.

These are the HarappaDNA results of a Saini member posted on another forum, and they seem quite different from the many Arrain samples posted here on anthrogenica and the Xing et al. ones used in HarappaDNA.

Admix Results (sorted):

Population Percent
Baloch 37.54
S-Indian 32.71
Caucasian 14.56
NE-Euro 7.72
SW-Asian 2.88
Siberian 1.40

There have been 4-5 Punjabi Rajput samples posted on this site and elsewhere and they seem pretty distinctive from the Arrain ones, so I doubt any connection with them either. Also, Sainis arent present in Sindh or South Punjab, where Arrains show strong genetic and historic affinities to. Regarding their ethnogenesis, I think I wrote a pretty detailed/well sourced reply above.

(!)--SSA--(!)
09-01-2017, 01:11 PM
These are the HarappaDNA results of a Saini member posted on another forum, and they seem quite different from the many Arrain samples posted here on anthrogenica and the Xing et al. ones used in HarappaDNA.

Admix Results (sorted):

Population Percent
Baloch 37.54
S-Indian 32.71
Caucasian 14.56
NE-Euro 7.72
SW-Asian 2.88
Siberian 1.40

There have been 4-5 Punjabi Rajput samples posted on this site and elsewhere and they seem pretty distinctive from the Arrain ones, so I doubt any connection with them either. Also, Sainis arent present in Sindh or South Punjab, where Arrains show strong genetic and historic affinities to. Regarding their ethnogenesis, I think I wrote a pretty detailed/well sourced reply above.

Is the above person a Saini sample? What is the main difference between the Saini, Arain and Rajput samples?

I dont attach that much importance to "population percent" or admix results tbh. They are OK and interesting to see thats all. The admixture can be changed easily in not too much time, by mixing with others.

It would be better if there were some comprehensive studies, with full range of samples that are found within different groups, conducted by genetic experts which trace and measure descent and test who is related to who in different groups, and how closely, using methods that experts all agree with for such purposes.

I wrote what I have read or what I thought. You need to stay open minded to different viewpoints because we cannot be certain on many things. Like the OP wrote his "My family has always claimed to be of Arab/Iranian origin". Similarly things get written "so and so came from Sindh or there or here" etc. Quite often these things are not proven, just written.

It does not matter if there are no Sainis in Sindh or South Punjab, most or all of the Arains were living in same areas before as where the Sainis live now. I dont think there were any native Arains in Sindh before 1947 either or even in South Punjab, and that they might have come from Sindh earlier at some time is not proven (I think), just what they say or believe. It might be true or might not be true.

Sainis also are not all the same. The ones in Punjab say they are different to some other Sainis found in UP or Rajasthan etc. They say those in UP or Rajasthan etc started to use the Saini name due to having similar occupations with the Sainis in Punjab and also to be able to get recruitment into the British India army because "Sainis" were recruited, but they were not eligible to be recruited under their original designation.

wgjkkwjkf
09-03-2017, 11:32 PM
Is the above person a Saini sample? What is the main difference between the Saini, Arain and Rajput samples?

I dont attach that much importance to "population percent" or admix results tbh. They are OK and interesting to see thats all. The admixture can be changed easily in not too much time, by mixing with others.

It would be better if there were some comprehensive studies, with full range of samples that are found within different groups, conducted by genetic experts which trace and measure descent and test who is related to who in different groups, and how closely, using methods that experts all agree with for such purposes.

I wrote what I have read or what I thought. You need to stay open minded to different viewpoints because we cannot be certain on many things. Like the OP wrote his "My family has always claimed to be of Arab/Iranian origin". Similarly things get written "so and so came from Sindh or there or here" etc. Quite often these things are not proven, just written.

It does not matter if there are no Sainis in Sindh or South Punjab, most or all of the Arains were living in same areas before as where the Sainis live now. I dont think there were any native Arains in Sindh before 1947 either or even in South Punjab, and that they might have come from Sindh earlier at some time is not proven (I think), just what they say or believe. It might be true or might not be true.

Sainis also are not all the same. The ones in Punjab say they are different to some other Sainis found in UP or Rajasthan etc. They say those in UP or Rajasthan etc started to use the Saini name due to having similar occupations with the Sainis in Punjab and also to be able to get recruitment into the British India army because "Sainis" were recruited, but they were not eligible to be recruited under their original designation.

Interesting, thank you. I am Saini Punjabi.

wgjkkwjkf
09-03-2017, 11:53 PM
Seems in line with other upper caste punjabis. Bolnat summed up the exotic ancestry part pretty well.

Yes, bol_nat seems to be quite knowledgeable, and you also. I think I can learn a lot from members here.

wgjkkwjkf
09-04-2017, 10:47 AM
These are the HarappaDNA results of a Saini member posted on another forum, and they seem quite different from the many Arrain samples posted here on anthrogenica and the Xing et al. ones used in HarappaDNA.

Admix Results (sorted):

Population Percent
Baloch 37.54
S-Indian 32.71
Caucasian 14.56
NE-Euro 7.72
SW-Asian 2.88
Siberian 1.40

There have been 4-5 Punjabi Rajput samples posted on this site and elsewhere and they seem pretty distinctive from the Arrain ones, so I doubt any connection with them either. Also, Sainis arent present in Sindh or South Punjab, where Arrains show strong genetic and historic affinities to. Regarding their ethnogenesis, I think I wrote a pretty detailed/well sourced reply above.

Even if there are no Sainis in Sindh now, if Arains had all moved from Sindh to other places, then perhaps Sainis had done the same or is that not possible?

MonkeyDLuffy
09-04-2017, 11:16 AM
Sainis are the only one I've found to be not having Muslim counterpart. And I highly doubt the rajput connection to be true since all saini's tested so far had L ydna, similar to jatts and few tarkhans. While Rajputs have high R, H and J2 which seems more ancient than L in south Asia. Check out mcninja's spreadsheet.

Also rajputs in both east and west punjab scored around similar results as punjabi Brahmins. Unless they're mixed.

I had a match on gedmatch, she was tarkhan with maternal side saini from Amritsar. She had higher Caucasian and lower baloch on harrapa. Sainis are usually found in east of eastern punjab or south of east punjab. I doubt they ever lived in west punjab.

wgjkkwjkf
09-05-2017, 11:13 AM
Seems in line with other upper caste punjabis. Bolnat summed up the exotic ancestry part pretty well.

I dont see Bolnat mentioning the exotic ancestry part?

Cocopopsmonkey
09-05-2017, 11:25 AM
Cocopopsmonkey Do you know your haplogroups?

My haplogroups are:

R1a1a1b2a1a
R1a-L657

What does this mean?

MonkeyDLuffy
09-05-2017, 12:50 PM
I dont see Bolnat mentioning the exotic ancestry part?

Like how OP mentioned his family claims arab origins, bolnat explained that majority SA muslims are local converts.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-05-2017, 12:55 PM
My haplogroups are:

R1a1a1b2a1a
R1a-L657

What does this mean?

That your ydna is local R1a1a. Welcome to the R1a1a club brother, we had a common paternal ancestor long time ago. :D

wgjkkwjkf
09-05-2017, 01:19 PM
Like how OP mentioned his family claims arab origins, bolnat explained that majority SA muslims are local converts.

I see now thank you, but it was Gandhara, not Bolnat, who explained SA Muslims are mostly local converts.

wgjkkwjkf
09-05-2017, 01:21 PM
That your ydna is local R1a1a. Welcome to the R1a1a club brother, we had a common paternal ancestor long time ago. :D

Can you say from this result how far back in time you had a common ancestor with Cocopopsmonkey or which test can tell that?
I havnt got any test done yet for yDNA or mtDNA, but I am saving to do the test. Brother, which company is best for me to use?

MonkeyDLuffy
09-05-2017, 01:31 PM
I see now thank you, but it was Gandhara, not Bolnat, who explained SA Muslims are mostly local converts.

My bad, anyway I'm R1a1a as well, I don't know my subclad as of yet. If it's L657 then we come from same paternal lineage. Here you can read more about its types and subclades and when they split.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a#South_Asia

Also prasar can answer the best in this case.

Coldmountains
09-05-2017, 02:52 PM
My haplogroups are:

R1a1a1b2a1a
R1a-L657

What does this mean?

R1a-L657 is a typical marker of historical and ancient Indo-Iranians. It is typical for modern day Indo-Aryans and most frequent in India, Pakistan, Nepal and Afghanistan. It is also found among Arabs, Turkic people and Iranians, but in much lower frequencies. R1a-L657 is of steppe origin and quite old (4000-5000 years old ). It was most likely born somewhere in East Europe and was a marker of steppe Indo-Europeans of Corded Ware origin. Via Abashevo> Andronovo> BMAC it arrived in Central and South Asia. L657 people brought Indo-Aryan languages to South Asia, but they live since almost 4000 years in South Asia, so today it is very much a South Asian/Central Asian lineage with distant origins in East Europe

parasar
09-06-2017, 05:00 PM
Can you say from this result how far back in time you had a common ancestor with Cocopopsmonkey or which test can tell that?
I havnt got any test done yet for yDNA or mtDNA, but I am saving to do the test. Brother, which company is best for me to use?

In general I recommend 23andme, unless you know your four grandparents' ancestries quite well.

Once you have your basic Y line, then to further delineate a relevant SNP pack would be the way to go.

By the way, Sain/Sen was prominent Bengal line of kings. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Sena-dynasty
They were Brahmans (Brahma-Kshatra) from Karnataka who assumed power in Bengal during the Chalukya period.
If I am not mistaken, the word Rajput/Rajaputra makes its first appearance with the Sens.

There is a group of Brahmans in the Punjab - the Lau Mohyals - who note association with the Sens.
"Many names of the Lau clan in Mohyal folklore and records closely match names from the Sena dynasty of Bengal, like Ballal Sen and Lau Sen. That, and the coinciding of the Lau clan's appearance in Punjab with the period when the Senas held territories North of Delhi, has led some historians to assert that the Laus descended from among the Senas[3] and are named after Lau Sen, consistent with the known phenomenon of a new clan or caste name coming into being with a notable ancestor. The name Lau Sen is famous in Bengali folklore as well,[4] and consistent with Mohyal tradition the Senas were also of Brahmin lineage but in a Kshatriya role."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lau_clan

Many of the hill states Rajputs of the Punjab/Kashmir/Himachal area also claim that association.
Mandi, Suket, Chamba, Kashtwar (now Muslim), Keonthal
https://books.google.com/books?id=Qug2AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA4
History of the Panjab Hill States, Volume 1
https://books.google.com/books?id=3btDw4S2FmYC&pg=PA341

MonkeyDLuffy
09-06-2017, 05:13 PM
Saini is usually used by Malis, they claim rajput ancestry but the tested so far have L ydna.

Thatagus
09-07-2017, 11:35 AM
Is the above person a Saini sample? What is the main difference between the Saini, Arain and Rajput samples?

I dont attach that much importance to "population percent" or admix results tbh. They are OK and interesting to see thats all. The admixture can be changed easily in not too much time, by mixing with others.


Yes, that was the result of a Saini person. The difference is that Arrains consistently seem to be scoring more "Baloch" (an Iran_N like component) and CHG compared to other Punjabis. This can be seen from the 25 academic Punjabi Arrain samples used in HarappaDNA, collected by Xing et al. (average around 44% Baloch) and the 4-5 Punjabi Arrain results posted here on anthrogenica from a variety of admixture calculators (including cocopopsmonkey's).



It does not matter if there are no Sainis in Sindh or South Punjab, most or all of the Arains were living in same areas before as where the Sainis live now. I dont think there were any native Arains in Sindh before 1947 either or even in South Punjab, and that they might have come from Sindh earlier at some time is not proven (I think), just what they say or believe. It might be true or might not be true.


There were native Arrains in South Punjab (Multan, Uch etc) and Northern Sindh (Larkana, Rohri etc.) prior to 1947. I posted the source above in my original reply.

Thatagus
09-07-2017, 11:39 AM
Even if there are no Sainis in Sindh now, if Arains had all moved from Sindh to other places, then perhaps Sainis had done the same or is that not possible?

Nothing conclusive can be said about this without some good number of Saini samples, however the one I had seems to have rather low % Baloch to have had recent migratory origins from South Punjab/Sindh compared to the many Punjabi Arrains showing strong genetic ties to that region. Also, there were almost no native Sainis in the South Punjab and Sindh region prior to partition.

Thatagus
09-10-2017, 11:10 AM
R1a-L657 is a typical marker of historical and ancient Indo-Iranians. It is typical for modern day Indo-Aryans and most frequent in India, Pakistan, Nepal and Afghanistan. It is also found among Arabs, Turkic people and Iranians, but in much lower frequencies. R1a-L657 is of steppe origin and quite old (4000-5000 years old ). It was most likely born somewhere in East Europe and was a marker of steppe Indo-Europeans of Corded Ware origin. Via Abashevo> Andronovo> BMAC it arrived in Central and South Asia. L657 people brought Indo-Aryan languages to South Asia, but they live since almost 4000 years in South Asia, so today it is very much a South Asian/Central Asian lineage with distant origins in East Europe

This particular sub-clade, R1a1a1b2a1a-L657, was apparently found as far as Northern Kazakhstan (quite close to the Pontic-Caspian steppe)

"Haplotypes from this table can be viewed in Appendix 1. 15 out of 16 tested belong to haplogroup of babasans R1a1a, of them, presumably, 14 belong to the subclade R1a1a1b2a1a-L657..... Currently the genus babasan haplotypes are the northernmost group relating to Subclades R1a1a1b2a1a-L657"

http://atababa.kz/en/history/read/proiskhozhdenie_roda_babasan/

Coldmountains
09-11-2017, 08:56 AM
This particular sub-clade, R1a1a1b2a1a-L657, was apparently found as far as Northern Kazakhstan (quite close to the Pontic-Caspian steppe)

"Haplotypes from this table can be viewed in Appendix 1. 15 out of 16 tested belong to haplogroup of babasans R1a1a, of them, presumably, 14 belong to the subclade R1a1a1b2a1a-L657..... Currently the genus babasan haplotypes are the northernmost group relating to Subclades R1a1a1b2a1a-L657"

http://atababa.kz/en/history/read/proiskhozhdenie_roda_babasan/

R1a-L657 was also found among Russian Tatars.https://www.familytreedna.com/public/tatarlar/default.aspx?section=yresults

gudar
12-16-2019, 03:23 PM
Yes, that was the result of a Saini person. The difference is that Arrains consistently seem to be scoring more "Baloch" (an Iran_N like component) and CHG compared to other Punjabis. This can be seen from the 25 academic Punjabi Arrain samples used in HarappaDNA, collected by Xing et al. (average around 44% Baloch) and the 4-5 Punjabi Arrain results posted here on anthrogenica from a variety of admixture calculators (including cocopopsmonkey's).



There were native Arrains in South Punjab (Multan, Uch etc) and Northern Sindh (Larkana, Rohri etc.) prior to 1947. I posted the source above in my original reply.

there's still a big chunk of arain found in sindh and south punjab and they look relatively different then central punjabi arain