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Nortunal
08-15-2017, 07:12 PM
Hi all,

I've Aberdeenshire in my results at a significant percentage, something which I've never heard of before. I checked on cautious mode, and see that it covers both Aberdeenshire AND Ireland. I can't confirm any Irish ancestry so far, but by using my logic and what I know of my ancestry currently, Irish seems like it's more likely than Scottish, though I could be wrong.

If my hunch is right, and it's Irish and not Scottish DNA, which as I've said is more likely in my opinion, why is it not just showing up as Ireland? I'm very, very confused. Does this mean it might actually be Scottish DNA instead? It's just that I can't vouch for it right now.

I'm a newbie to all this DNA research, but I feel like their cautious groupings are a bit bizarre. I know a singular 'Ireland' group exists, so why is there Irish grouped again under Aberdeenshire? Also noticed that Southern England and Southwest Scotland were in the same cautious grouping.

I just don't understand.

Thank you

08-15-2017, 07:21 PM
Hi Nortunal, and welcome to the forum, all of our results are work in progress, there is a significant Irish dataset currently being completed, and will be fully intergrated into our results at an as yet unknown date, this might pull people who have real Irish heritage to give a higher % of Irish in their results, From what I understand it’s normally the SW Scotland then the NW Scotland that gets mistaken for Irish, so might be real, but wait for the update.

Nortunal
08-15-2017, 07:42 PM
So upon the update, my Aberdeenshire section would likely change to Irish, and if not, it's probably Scottish?

Sorry to be so silly with these questions, I just got a bit confused with the groupings.

Thank you

Amerijoe
08-15-2017, 07:53 PM
Welcome!

Nortunal, as sgdavies mentioned livingdna is a work in progress with stated updates to follow. In cautious mode, my results incorporate Southwest Scotland, Ireland, Aberdeenshire, and Northwest Scotland into Aberdeenshire related [email protected]%.

Nortunal
08-15-2017, 08:18 PM
My results say Aberdeenshire across all the modes if that makes a difference. No mention of Ireland at all. Just when I saw it grouped the two together in the cautious mode, it confused me. I'm pretty sure it would be Irish as opposed to Scottish as I have a relatively solid reason as to why it would be one more than the other, but who knows?

Hopefully a future update will be able to split the results into separate sections, because I'm curious, and have also hit a brick wall with my ancestry, and since this is a substantial piece, would really help me progress.

greerpalmer
08-15-2017, 08:25 PM
Hi all,

I've Aberdeenshire in my results at a significant percentage, something which I've never heard of before. I checked on cautious mode, and see that it covers both Aberdeenshire AND Ireland. I can't confirm any Irish ancestry so far, but by using my logic and what I know of my ancestry currently, Irish seems like it's more likely than Scottish, though I could be wrong.

If my hunch is right, and it's Irish and not Scottish DNA, which as I've said is more likely in my opinion, why is it not just showing up as Ireland? I'm very, very confused. Does this mean it might actually be Scottish DNA instead? It's just that I can't vouch for it right now.

I'm a newbie to all this DNA research, but I feel like their cautious groupings are a bit bizarre. I know a singular 'Ireland' group exists, so why is there Irish grouped again under Aberdeenshire? Also noticed that Southern England and Southwest Scotland were in the same cautious grouping.

I just don't understand.

Thank you

So you don't think its accurate based on a hunch? What do you know about your ancestry?
After much research I've found that many of my English ancestors came from Scotland. Also, the people in Northern Ireland are a mix between Irish, English and Scottish.

Nortunal
08-15-2017, 08:34 PM
I've ancestors from a place that has had significant Irish influx within the past 200 years. A relative of mine also told me that there's Irish blood on that side of the family, I've just hit a brick wall with my paper trail on that part of my research and can't confirm it 100%. I never denied that it's Scottish and said so in the original post, just that I can't vouch for it currently. Given that the cautious mode is showing both Ireland and Scotland as one, I have more reason to believe it's Irish, that's all.

Of course my family will be mixed, but I just haven't got the resources to research as deep as I'd like to for multiple reasons at the moment. I'm working with hearsay and what I'm slowly digging up simultaneously.

I was not aware of the research project currently going on and that results will probably change in the future. I'm sure these updates will clear up my question.

sktibo
08-15-2017, 10:59 PM
On my previous calculation run by Living DNA (my results have changed twice since receiving them) I had SW Scotland 3.0%, Ireland 3.1%, Aberdeenshire 4.2%, and Cumbria 3.6%. Now I have Aberdeenshire 11.5%, and Cumbria 2.4%. If we add up the difference lost with Cumbria (1.2%) plus Ireland (3.1) plus SW Scotland (3) plus Aberdeenshire before (4.2) we get 11.5, which is what I have currently assigned to Aberdeenshire. This indicates to me that Ireland is close enough genetically to Aberdeenshire for the two to become mixed up with a new calculation in place, as you can see my Ireland percentage was absorbed into my Aberdeenshire precentage currently - HOWEVER, note that my Irish ancestry isn't native Irish, at least half of it (6% of my total paper trail) is Scotch Irish and my other Irish ancestors were most likely Scotch Irish as well, though I don't have definitive proof for this.

Like some others have pointed out, we're waiting on the Irish DNA project to be completed, as that should let you know if you have any strong genetic similarities to the Irish populations - I will not at all be surprised if some of your Aberdeenshire ancestry gets re-located to an Irish region - What would be most interesting is if this would be a Northern Irish region.

Nortunal
08-16-2017, 09:47 AM
On my previous calculation run by Living DNA (my results have changed twice since receiving them) I had SW Scotland 3.0%, Ireland 3.1%, Aberdeenshire 4.2%, and Cumbria 3.6%. Now I have Aberdeenshire 11.5%, and Cumbria 2.4%. If we add up the difference lost with Cumbria (1.2%) plus Ireland (3.1) plus SW Scotland (3) plus Aberdeenshire before (4.2) we get 11.5, which is what I have currently assigned to Aberdeenshire. This indicates to me that Ireland is close enough genetically to Aberdeenshire for the two to become mixed up with a new calculation in place, as you can see my Ireland percentage was absorbed into my Aberdeenshire precentage currently - HOWEVER, note that my Irish ancestry isn't native Irish, at least half of it (6% of my total paper trail) is Scotch Irish and my other Irish ancestors were most likely Scotch Irish as well, though I don't have definitive proof for this.

Like some others have pointed out, we're waiting on the Irish DNA project to be completed, as that should let you know if you have any strong genetic similarities to the Irish populations - I will not at all be surprised if some of your Aberdeenshire ancestry gets re-located to an Irish region - What would be most interesting is if this would be a Northern Irish region.

Thank you for your reply.

I didn't account for the fact that it could be a Scottish-Irish mix. I guess I'll find out with the future updates what the Aberdeenshire region will split up into, and hopefully that will clarify a lot of things. I'm very curious to find out about the Aberdeenshire section now, and whether it changes or not. My results changed once before from something really inaccurate to something much more accurate and true to what I know, but the Aberdeenshire was still there. If and when it updates, I'll let you know.

sktibo
08-16-2017, 03:16 PM
Thank you for your reply.

I didn't account for the fact that it could be a Scottish-Irish mix. I guess I'll find out with the future updates what the Aberdeenshire region will split up into, and hopefully that will clarify a lot of things. I'm very curious to find out about the Aberdeenshire section now, and whether it changes or not. My results changed once before from something really inaccurate to something much more accurate and true to what I know, but the Aberdeenshire was still there. If and when it updates, I'll let you know.

My grandfather's mother's people were all from Ireland. He was very proud of his Irish roots and would talk about it a fair bit. However, when I got into genealogy I noticed their surnames weren't Irish and their religious affiliations appeared to be protestant. It was a paper trail brick wall for quite a long time, until a DNA relative helped me break half of it, and actually gave me the information for 2/4 3rd Great Grandparents from that line: They were Scottish settlers in Northern Ireland. All of their records stated they were from "Ireland" no indicator of where within that, and on some censuses they listed their ethnicity as "Irish" while on others they were listed as "Scotch" it really wasn't clear - maybe they identified as Irish and passed that identity down to their children. I'm still working on the other 2/4 3x G-Grandparents but I won't be surprised if there's no native Irish in there.
The TL;DR of this is that if you have ancestors from Ireland it's possible they might have not been native Irish at all - however I think a quick look at their religion and their surnames on record will be a huge indicator of what they were ethnically speaking

greerpalmer
08-16-2017, 03:58 PM
He was very proud of his Irish roots and would talk about it a fair bit. However, when I got into genealogy I noticed their surnames weren't Irish and their religious affiliations appeared to be protestant. Ig

This is a great way to get directional information when you hit a wall. Where are the surnames most common? What religion does the line affiliate with?
My proud Irish-Catholic family has quite a bit of North-Irish protestant mixed in up the line. Some older colonial lines were even sent to America to "stop the spread of the catholic plague" by the King of England at the time. I guess "the plague" won.

Nortunal
08-16-2017, 04:47 PM
My grandfather's mother's people were all from Ireland. He was very proud of his Irish roots and would talk about it a fair bit. However, when I got into genealogy I noticed their surnames weren't Irish and their religious affiliations appeared to be protestant. It was a paper trail brick wall for quite a long time, until a DNA relative helped me break half of it, and actually gave me the information for 2/4 3rd Great Grandparents from that line: They were Scottish settlers in Northern Ireland. All of their records stated they were from "Ireland" no indicator of where within that, and on some censuses they listed their ethnicity as "Irish" while on others they were listed as "Scotch" it really wasn't clear - maybe they identified as Irish and passed that identity down to their children. I'm still working on the other 2/4 3x G-Grandparents but I won't be surprised if there's no native Irish in there.
The TL;DR of this is that if you have ancestors from Ireland it's possible they might have not been native Irish at all - however I think a quick look at their religion and their surnames on record will be a huge indicator of what they were ethnically speaking

Thank you for your reply once again.

I need to figure out how to move past the brick wall and then see what other surnames are in there. It will probably give me the biggest clue, as you mentioned. I'll keep trying, and wait for the update on LivingDNA too. Either way, I'm very interested to see where this Aberdeenshire section is really coming from.

Ron from PA
08-17-2017, 12:22 PM
Growing up was told by both sides we had Irish. Upon investigating all the names are likely Scottish/English.

MikeWhalen
08-17-2017, 02:28 PM
this has already been hinted at, and there are others on the forum with a much better grasp of the history than I, but it should also be remembered that historically, the Irish and Scottish were quite close cousins to begin with, linguistically, culturally and genetically...so it can be quite tricky to genuinely separate dna info on the two

Add to that, there were several large influxes of one to the other, over the last few thousand years, examples being the Dal Riata Irish colonizing a significant part of Scotland in the 5th century

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Riata

Someone else mentioned the English overlords transplanting troublesome Scots into Ireland as an example of the genetic flow going the other way

The Irish Sea was never a barrier between the countries, but rather, a highway, a particularly convenient way to travel between the two and that is true for the last several thousand years I believe

In any case, better sampling data and deep dna testing does increasingly shed light on it all, but dont be dismayed by all the confusion and similarities...they exist for very real historical reasons

good luck

Mike

MacEochaidh
08-17-2017, 02:30 PM
Many native Irish names have been changed to English forms. I have Donegal names O'Duibhir, O'Duibhne, MacRuari and O'Brolachain changed to Diver, Peoples, Rodgers, and Bradley respectively. All, except Bradley, come from the Gaeltacht Region of Gaoth Dobhair, Donegal. So, the current "King Of Tory Island", Padraig Donal MacRuari, is called Patsy Dan Rodgers in English. Quite a difference!

jonathanmcg1990
08-17-2017, 03:06 PM
Hi all,

I've Aberdeenshire in my results at a significant percentage, something which I've never heard of before. I checked on cautious mode, and see that it covers both Aberdeenshire AND Ireland. I can't confirm any Irish ancestry so far, but by using my logic and what I know of my ancestry currently, Irish seems like it's more likely than Scottish, though I could be wrong.

If my hunch is right, and it's Irish and not Scottish DNA, which as I've said is more likely in my opinion, why is it not just showing up as Ireland? I'm very, very confused. Does this mean it might actually be Scottish DNA instead? It's just that I can't vouch for it right now.

I'm a newbie to all this DNA research, but I feel like their cautious groupings are a bit bizarre. I know a singular 'Ireland' group exists, so why is there Irish grouped again under Aberdeenshire? Also noticed that Southern England and Southwest Scotland were in the same cautious grouping.

I just don't understand.

Thank you

Hi Nortunal.

My mother side is Ulster Irish descent and my father is Ulster Scot they are descendant from a bunch of migrates who came from lowland Scotland. So I don't know where my Aberdeenshire percentage came from. My Aberdeenshire percentage is 8% . Unless some of my Ulster Scots lines are ancestors came from the Aberdeenshire area. I can't get my head around this percentage but I don't think that's the case because the vast majority of people are reporting Aberdeenshire percentages with no known Aberdeenshire heritage.

Kind Regards

Jonathan McGuinness

JMcB
08-17-2017, 03:21 PM
Growing up was told by both sides we had Irish. Upon investigating all the names are likely Scottish/English.



Yes, what we were told often folds under closer examination. Growing up I was told my Grandfather, whose surname was originally Lo Bianco, was Italian. Which makes sense. On closer inspection, it turns out that he was 1/2 Irish, 1/4 German and only 1/4 Italian. My mother's maternal side of the family was confidently said to be entirely English. Well, after a year of searching around, I found out they're actually 1/2 English & 1/2 Scottish. Needless to say, I could go on but I know everyone else has experienced the same kind of thing.

This line of endeavor is full of surprises.

JMcB
08-17-2017, 03:47 PM
Many native Irish names have been changed to English forms. I have Donegal names O'Duibhir, O'Duibhne, MacRuari and O'Brolachain changed to Diver, Peoples, Rodgers, and Bradley respectively. All, except Bradley, come from the Gaeltacht Region of Gaoth Dobhair, Donegal. So, the current "King Of Tory Island", Padraig Donal MacRuari, is called Patsy Dan Rodgers in English. Quite a difference!

Hello MacEochaidh,

Out of curiosity, do you know where the O'Brolachain/Bradley name comes from in Ireland. My Great Grandmother, who was of proud Irish descent, was a Bradley.

MacEochaidh
08-17-2017, 03:58 PM
Hello MacEochaidh,

Out of curiosity, do you know where the O'Brolachain/Bradley name comes from in Ireland. My Great Grandmother, who was of proud Irish descent, was a Bradley.

My Bradleys are from Muff Parish, Donegal, just west of Derry Town. The name is most popular in Derry and Inishowen, Donegal currently, but I've read that the name originated in Tyrone.

MacEochaidh
08-17-2017, 04:29 PM
Hello MacEochaidh,

Out of curiosity, do you know where the O'Brolachain/Bradley name comes from in Ireland. My Great Grandmother, who was of proud Irish descent, was a Bradley.

This should also help: http://www.billmacafee.com/1660shearthmoneyrolls/1663hearthmoneyrollsderry.pdf

18202

JMcB
08-17-2017, 05:50 PM
My Bradleys are from Muff Parish, Donegal, just west of Derry Town. The name is most popular in Derry and Inishowen, Donegal currently, but I've read that the name originated in Tyrone.

Thanks for the tip! All I know is both her parents where born in Ireland circa the 1840s and they came to America sometime before 1868 which is when she was born. Plus, they were Catholic.

sktibo
08-17-2017, 06:12 PM
Hi Nortunal.

My mother side is Ulster Irish descent and my father is Ulster Scot they are descendant from a bunch of migrates who came from lowland Scotland. So I don't know where my Aberdeenshire percentage came from. I have 8% Aberdeenshire. Unless some of my Ulster Scots lines are ancestors who came from the Aberdeenshire area I can't get my head around it but I don't think that's the case the vast of people are reporting Aberdeenshire percentages with no known Aberdennshire percentages.

Kind Regards

Jonathan McGuinness

I just want to highlight this point Jonathan made: since Living DNA changed their calculation, a lot more people have received aberdeenshire percentages, and many of them don't have ancestry from that region. I will point out that I actually don't have any ancestry from any of the regions which can be included under Living DNA's aberdeenshire.

Nortunal
08-19-2017, 11:38 AM
Thanks for all your replies.

I was finding it difficult to understand their cautious groups, but I think I do fall into one of the Aberdeenshire regions somewhere. I'll wait for the update and see what happens.

Robert1
08-19-2017, 03:05 PM
Yes, thanks for the many informative comments! I have about 6% Aberdeenshire that I can't account for and believe my 6% Irish should be about 17%. I was expecting after Living DNA's Irish update about 10% might be pulled from north and central England to Ireland but now expect some will be pulled from Scotland. My family records turn up about 21% Scot and I believe it's NW/Highlands. LDNA assigns almost 21% NW Scotland which fits like a glove.

I must applaud Living DNA, my results are quite good already and after the Irish and German updates they should get better. These frequent upgrades of their reference database are much appreciated.

JMcB
08-19-2017, 04:17 PM
Yes, thanks for the many informative comments! I have about 6% Aberdeenshire that I can't account for and believe my 6% Irish should be about 17%. I was expecting after Living DNA's Irish update about 10% might be pulled from north and central England to Ireland but now expect some will be pulled from Scotland. My family records turn up about 21% Scot and I believe it's NW/Highlands. LDNA assigns almost 21% NW Scotland which fits like a glove.

I must applaud Living DNA, my results are quite good already and after the Irish and German updates they should get better. These frequent upgrades of their reference database are much appreciated.




Yes, I would say that I'm pretty much in the same boat as you are. For the most part I'm very happy with LDNA's (complete mode) results. They got the broad numbers just about right (88% GB&I, 5.9% SE, 4.4% N&WE & 1.6% EE). Although, the Scandinavian should really be German but their Scandinavia covers parts of Germany and the 1.6% Moldova is just inexplicable.

Where the British Isles are concerned, I do have some quibbles. My Irish should be approximately 12.5% and they only gave me 1.3%, which is down from their previous reading of 5%. Hopefully, they'll correct that number when the Irish update comes online. Although, in my case they should pull it from the English results, which seem a little too high, not from the Scottish, which seem a little low.

Other than that, I can't complain. They did better than anyone else did and they're trying to be a lot more specific than the others. So I'll give them credit, where credit is do.

sktibo
08-19-2017, 09:49 PM
Yes, I would say that I'm pretty much in the same boat as you are. For the most part I'm very happy with LDNA's (complete mode) results. They got the broad numbers just about right (88% GB&I, 5.9% SE, 4.4% N&WE & 1.6% EE). Although, the Scandinavian should really be German but their Scandinavia covers parts of Germany and the 1.6% Moldova is just inexplicable.

Where the British Isles are concerned, I do have some quibbles. My Irish should be approximately 12.5% and they only gave me 1.3%, which is down from their previous reading of 5%. Hopefully, they'll correct that number when the Irish update comes online. Although, in my case they should pull it from the English results, which seem a little too high, not from the Scottish, which seem a little low.

Other than that, I can't complain. They did better than anyone else did and they're trying to be a lot more specific than the others. So I'll give them credit, where credit is do.

Man, that Irish update can't come soon enough. I'm praying it's the thing that will finally break apart my Northumbrian percentage and push it in the direction it needs to go.. but it would be hilarious if it doesn't. In the last update I lost my 3.1% Ireland to Aberdeenshire, which is now my second largest category. I'm a bit worried that once the Irish project is released with its massive number of samples (last I read I think they had over 1200) that people will experience the same problem they have with the English regions... being assigned too much of them when there isn't actually anything there

FionnSneachta
08-19-2017, 11:01 PM
Man, that Irish update can't come soon enough. I'm praying it's the thing that will finally break apart my Northumbrian percentage and push it in the direction it needs to go.. but it would be hilarious if it doesn't. In the last update I lost my 3.1% Ireland to Aberdeenshire, which is now my second largest category. I'm a bit worried that once the Irish project is released with its massive number of samples (last I read I think they had over 1200) that people will experience the same problem they have with the English regions... being assigned too much of them when there isn't actually anything there

I don't think that the sample size should be a problem. It's averaging at 92 samples per the 13 regions which isn't that much really. Hopefully we'll find out soon enough anyway. It doesn't look like the update will be released by the end of the summer though. I wonder if it's a lack of samples in certain regions or a problem dividing Ireland into regions based on DNA that's causing the delay.

sktibo
08-19-2017, 11:47 PM
I don't think that the sample size should be a problem. It's averaging at 92 samples per the 13 regions which isn't that much really. Hopefully we'll find out soon enough anyway. It doesn't look like the update will be released by the end of the summer though. I wonder if it's a lack of samples in certain regions or a problem dividing Ireland into regions based on DNA that's causing the delay.

I think it's a bit ambitious to divide Ireland into thirteen regions, if they can do it then fantastic but I would have thought it would be more along the lines of 4-6 genetic regions. If they release it this year that would be splendid, but I have a feeling it might take them longer

Robert1
08-20-2017, 02:43 AM
Yes, I would say that I'm pretty much in the same boat as you are. For the most part I'm very happy with LDNA's (complete mode) results. They got the broad numbers just about right (88% GB&I, 5.9% SE, 4.4% N&WE & 1.6% EE). Although, the Scandinavian should really be German but their Scandinavia covers parts of Germany and the 1.6% Moldova is just inexplicable.

Where the British Isles are concerned, I do have some quibbles. My Irish should be approximately 12.5% and they only gave me 1.3%, which is down from their previous reading of 5%. Hopefully, they'll correct that number when the Irish update comes online. Although, in my case they should pull it from the English results, which seem a little too high, not from the Scottish, which seem a little low.

Other than that, I can't complain. They did better than anyone else did and they're trying to be a lot more specific than the others. So I'll give them credit, where credit is do.

Funny, my other main quibble with LDNA is they assigned me 98.7% British and Irish! My NW Europe is just 1.3% assigned to Scandinavia when my paper trail turns up 5% German/Dutch so I'd like to see that turn up with the German update. Of course that's nitpicking, I can easily enough push over that small percent from SE England myself. Heck, for grits & shins why not splurge and push over another 0.5% to Northern France since even though I haven't found any French in my family tree it makes sense and doesn't make much difference.

I wouldn't mind if the updates don't come till the end of the year, take the time to get it right. Also, I have tests just submitted for my wife, mother and paternal aunt and it would be nice to see and screenprint percentages before and after updates. Of course having three tests hanging out there in the wind like that, I may be setting in a bias for early results! You guys can thank me then if that happens! :)